Talk:Live steam

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External links for discussion

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7+Railroader

I removed the text and the link to this, because this page is not the right place for it. Please create a separate page about that magazine instead. Then you can put a link to that page on this one. --Janke | Talk 09:48, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-10-21T09:48:00.000Z","author":"Janke","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Janke-2005-10-21T09:48:00.000Z-7+Railroader","replies":[]}}-->

Live Steaming

http://www.livesteaming.com

This appears to be a private website, although the coverage is extensive and has world-wide scope. Not sure it complies with WP:EL though, which is why I've moved it here for others to consider. -- EdJogg 11:52, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-05-22T11:52:00.000Z","author":"EdJogg","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-EdJogg-2007-05-22T11:52:00.000Z-Live_Steaming","replies":[]}}-->

FabTinToys

http://www.fabtintoys.com/steam/ "Live model steam engine toys - history"

The useful historical content on this site is swamped by the advertising area for online auction items. Consequently the link fails WP:EL. -- EdJogg (talk) 13:38, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-08-15T13:38:00.000Z","author":"EdJogg","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-EdJogg-2008-08-15T13:38:00.000Z-FabTinToys","replies":[]}}-->

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Not Comprehensive Enough?

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The discussion on Gauges is not very comprehensive. In the UK the main gauges for live steam are 3 1/2", 5" and 7 1/4", none of which is mentioned. Also tehre are plent of examples of live steam locos at OO gauge.The Yowser (talk) 13:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-20T13:25:00.000Z","author":"The Yowser","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_Yowser-2010-05-20T13:25:00.000Z-Not_Comprehensive_Enough?","replies":["c-Janke-2010-05-20T15:03:00.000Z-The_Yowser-2010-05-20T13:25:00.000Z","c-The_Yowser-2010-05-28T15:54:00.000Z-The_Yowser-2010-05-20T13:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

You can't have everything in one article, go to Rail_transport_modelling_scales, it's in the "See Also" section in this article... ;) --Janke | Talk 15:03, 20 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-20T15:03:00.000Z","author":"Janke","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Janke-2010-05-20T15:03:00.000Z-The_Yowser-2010-05-20T13:25:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
I don't think I'm being unrealistic. For a UK reader seeing these three gauges omitted is like having an article on tabletop railways not mentioning OO,HO and N! To be fair, live steam models are better defined by gauge than scale, so perhaps the range of popular gauges should be given prominence, with a note that each gauge may be used for locomotives at various scales representing everything from narrow gauge to broad gauge prototypes at a bewildering range of scales! The Yowser (talk) 15:54, 28 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-28T15:54:00.000Z","author":"The Yowser","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-The_Yowser-2010-05-28T15:54:00.000Z-The_Yowser-2010-05-20T13:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Janke-2010-05-28T19:12:00.000Z-The_Yowser-2010-05-28T15:54:00.000Z"]}}-->
- OK, I added all the gauges. You could have done it yourself, too... ;) --Janke | Talk 19:12, 28 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-28T19:12:00.000Z","author":"Janke","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Janke-2010-05-28T19:12:00.000Z-The_Yowser-2010-05-28T15:54:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Unbalanced

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This article is unbalanced. In the lede, it talks about other uses besides model rail yet most of the article is about model rail. It should include more on the other uses besides model rail. -- 70.50.151.36 (talk) 04:39, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-08-07T04:39:00.000Z","author":"70.50.151.36","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-70.50.151.36-2012-08-07T04:39:00.000Z-Unbalanced","replies":["c-86.140.99.70-2012-08-19T17:18:00.000Z-70.50.151.36-2012-08-07T04:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

As far as I can tell this term is *only* used in model rail contexts, to distinguish from models with non-functioning steam parts. The problem then isn't one of balance, but that the intro is confusing. --86.140.99.70 (talk) 17:18, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-08-19T17:18:00.000Z","author":"86.140.99.70","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-86.140.99.70-2012-08-19T17:18:00.000Z-70.50.151.36-2012-08-07T04:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Andy_Dingley-2012-08-19T17:25:00.000Z-86.140.99.70-2012-08-19T17:18:00.000Z"]}}-->

It's used across all model engineering disciplines: rail, road, boats, stationary. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:25, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-08-19T17:25:00.000Z","author":"Andy Dingley","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Andy_Dingley-2012-08-19T17:25:00.000Z-86.140.99.70-2012-08-19T17:18:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I have added some paragraphs on road vehicles, boats & ships, stationary engines and toys. These are currently only short paragraphs saying little more than what can be found. They can easily be expanded to include more detail. Roly (talk) 18:51, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-08-19T18:51:00.000Z","author":"Roly Williams","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Roly_Williams-2012-08-19T18:51:00.000Z-Unbalanced","replies":[],"displayName":"Roly"}}-->

Really, the whole emphasis of the article, 90% on toys, is ridiculous. "the term is usually reserved for those that are replicas, scale models, toys,"??? Bullshit. What is the justification for this? See the OED definition, it doesn't mention toys at all:

live steam n. Engin. steam supplied direct from a boiler, as opposed to steam that comes from an exhaust or has already been used; cf. dead steam at dead adj. 12b.

1858 I. Mayhew School Funds & School Laws Michigan iii. 381 Steam Heating Furnaces..are of different kinds. The one hitherto most in use, traverses with pipes the apartments to be heated, through which pipes live steam is sent.

1889 Pall Mall Gaz. 21 Oct. 3/2 The heat is supplied by the waste steam, supplemented if necessary by live steam.

1949 Tap & Tavern 18 Apr. 8/1 The drink..is made by mixing chocolate powder with milk,..and by injecting live steam into the drink.

2007 Energy Conversion & Managem. 48 336/2 The first rectifying column is heated by live steam.

I'm sure toy people do use the term, but it's not the original or main usage.

I added the "undue" template accordingly. I see it was here before, in 2012, until removed without discussion in 2014: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Live_steam&diff=next&oldid=627226279 202.81.249.235 (talk) 15:35, 29 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-05-29T15:35:00.000Z","author":"202.81.249.235","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-202.81.249.235-2016-05-29T15:35:00.000Z-Unbalanced","replies":["c-Roly_Williams-2016-05-29T16:07:00.000Z-202.81.249.235-2016-05-29T15:35:00.000Z","c-Roly_Williams-2016-05-29T16:12:00.000Z-202.81.249.235-2016-05-29T15:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

The point of this article is that it's about live steam models and toys as opposed to electric or clockwork powered representations of steam engines. There is already an article on Steam heating so it would make more sense to create a disambiguation page or to insert a link at the top of this one linking to the steam heating page. --Roly (talk) 16:07, 29 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-05-29T16:07:00.000Z","author":"Roly Williams","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Roly_Williams-2016-05-29T16:07:00.000Z-202.81.249.235-2016-05-29T15:35:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Roly"}}-->

In fact I've just done the latter. --Roly (talk) 16:12, 29 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-05-29T16:12:00.000Z","author":"Roly Williams","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Roly_Williams-2016-05-29T16:12:00.000Z-202.81.249.235-2016-05-29T15:35:00.000Z","replies":["c-Andy_Dingley-2016-05-29T17:29:00.000Z-Roly_Williams-2016-05-29T16:12:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Roly"}}-->

Thanks, I would strongly support your change here. Even if "live steam" has another use, we deal with that at another article, using disambiguation as necessary. We don't shoe-horn multiple distinct definitions of the core term into one article. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:29, 29 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-05-29T17:29:00.000Z","author":"Andy Dingley","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Andy_Dingley-2016-05-29T17:29:00.000Z-Roly_Williams-2016-05-29T16:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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the lede is misleading

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The lede doesn't say what the article is about, which causes the preview on mobile to be misleading. Marnanel (talk) 15:31, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240325153100","author":"Marnanel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Marnanel-20240325153100-the_lede_is_misleading","replies":[]}}-->