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The Latihan should not be in the category of "meditation". This is a fairly fundamental point, meditation is something you learn from a teacher, and as our wiki article states, "which emphasize mental activity or quiescence". The Latihan is neither of these, you aren't meant to think about what you are doing, nor do you sit quietly. It is better described as a form of worship.

Within Subud the Latihan is categorised in contrast to meditation, and performing other meditation in the Latihan is disapprove of as "mixing", and seen as harmful to parishioners spiritual wellbeing.

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Latihan ??

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Latihan is a general term and in Indonesian dictionary it means practice. So I think you have to change the title of this article to be specific for Subud or whatsoever. — Indon (reply) — 10:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-09-19T10:59:00.000Z","author":"Indon","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Indon-2006-09-19T10:59:00.000Z-Latihan_??","replies":["c-BesselDekker-2007-10-05T12:07:00.000Z-Indon-2006-09-19T10:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

Very true. In Indonesian, latihan may mean any sort of "exercise", whether in PT (latihan olahraga), music (latihan musik, latihan gamelan) and so on. And the explanation that latihan is short for, or derived from, latihan kejiwaan is quite incorrect. Bessel Dekker 12:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-10-05T12:07:00.000Z","author":"BesselDekker","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-BesselDekker-2007-10-05T12:07:00.000Z-Indon-2006-09-19T10:59:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Bessel Dekker"}}-->

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Meditation is NOT necessarily learned from a teacher. It has always been possible to 'meditate' with no teacher, instruction or technique. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.222.149.97 (talk) 08:02, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-10-31T08:02:00.000Z","author":"121.222.149.97","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-121.222.149.97-2010-10-31T08:02:00.000Z-Latihan_??","replies":[]}}-->

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encyclopedic style is required

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The contents of this article are currently not written in encyclopedic style. It comes across both as inappropriate preaching and as a sales pitch, whereas objective and impartial style is necessary. The current wording refers to the author in plural form; "we", "us" and "our"; but in referring to unidentified people, it should say "they", "them" and "their". The current text lacks citations, yet has many statements of highly questionable opinion that are blatantly expressed as if factual. A range of qualifying, explanatory phrases is needed. For example -- "which members of Subud often regard as" / "sometimes claimed to be" / "widely thought, among Subud members, to represent" / "said by some practitioners to mean" / "according to many practitioners" / "supposed" / "supposedly" / "apparently" / "is generally viewed as" / and so on. Otherwise the article may qualify for deletion. Read [neutral point of view] and [not a means of promotion] and [pages for deletion].

Also, there is no "Subud World Brotherhood". It is the "World Subud Association". 60.228.178.1 (talk) 01:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-11-01T01:11:00.000Z","author":"60.228.178.1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-60.228.178.1-2010-11-01T01:11:00.000Z-encyclopedic_style_is_required","replies":[]}}-->

Complete article replacement was required to get it into encyclopedic, neutral viewpoint style, and to add proper citations. Subudup (talk) 10:28, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-12-17T10:28:00.000Z","author":"Subudup","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Subudup-2010-12-17T10:28:00.000Z-encyclopedic_style_is_required","replies":[]}}-->

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addition made 20 February 2011

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This addition requires supporting evidence of cogency in the form of some suitable citation. If such is provided, then the addition should be incorporated in the main paragraph. Also, "Wiki" is presumably Wikipedia, but the 'definition' as quoted is incomplete. Besides, there is no point in defining mysticism here. Subudup (talk) 23:08, 28 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-02-28T23:08:00.000Z","author":"Subudup","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Subudup-2011-02-28T23:08:00.000Z-addition_made_20_February_2011","replies":[]}}-->

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addition made 23 February 2011

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This paragraph is not suitable because it is insufficiently relevant (as a "speculation" of the founder of the organisation of which the latihan is the principal practice); is unreferenced, in any case; provides no explanation of "prayer movements"; and appears to be included primarily as a means of promotion of Subud. Subudup (talk) 23:12, 28 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-02-28T23:12:00.000Z","author":"Subudup","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Subudup-2011-02-28T23:12:00.000Z-addition_made_23_February_2011","replies":[]}}-->

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Osho

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Osho does not appear to describe his active meditation as latihan kedjiwaan, the link only seems to be his critique of the Subud latihan. Thus it doesn't appear to belong on this page. M-Henry (talk) 21:56, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-18T21:56:00.000Z","author":"M-Henry","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-M-Henry-2013-12-18T21:56:00.000Z-Osho","replies":["c-Redheylin-2014-08-23T20:43:00.000Z-M-Henry-2013-12-18T21:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

Osho describes his method as "latihan" (page title) and the critique led to modifications that have been in use for 40 years, still called latihan, in the methods called Gourishankar, Devavani and Mahamudra. Redheylin (talk) 20:43, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-08-23T20:43:00.000Z","author":"Redheylin","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Redheylin-2014-08-23T20:43:00.000Z-M-Henry-2013-12-18T21:56:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->