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What is the general consensus, if any, on the reliability of Abandoned and Little Known Airfields, [1], as a source? I've corresponded with Paul Freeman in the past, and he seems sincere about factual accuracy. Carguychris (talk) 14:14, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241007141400","author":"Carguychris","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Carguychris-20241007141400-Reliability_of_Abandoned_and_Little_Known_Airfields","replies":["c-Jan_olieslagers-20241118135000-Carguychris-20241007141400"]}}-->

Not an answer, only an addition for the sake of completeness: there also exists a European almost-namesake, but I see no indication that the two projects are related. https://www.forgottenairfields.com/ Jan olieslagers (talk) 13:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241118135000","author":"Jan olieslagers","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jan_olieslagers-20241118135000-Carguychris-20241007141400","replies":[]}}-->

Hi WikiProject Aviation

I am currently working on writing an article about MEA flight 444, as that was one of the incidents that we do not have coverage for. Please provide feedback, or maybe even contribute yourself Draft:Middle Eastern Airlines Flight 444 - Wikipedia

Thanks,

Mangoflies (talk) 06:23, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241111062300","author":"Mangoflies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mangoflies-20241111062300-MEA_Flight_444_article","replies":["c-Commander_Keane-20241111063700-Mangoflies-20241111062300"]}}-->

Courtesy link (so people can click easily): Draft:Middle Eastern Airlines Flight 444. Commander Keane (talk) 06:37, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241111063700","author":"Commander Keane","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Commander_Keane-20241111063700-Mangoflies-20241111062300","replies":["c-Mangoflies-20241111065800-Commander_Keane-20241111063700"]}}-->

Thanks for putting that there

—— Mangoflies (talk) 06:58, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241111065800","author":"Mangoflies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mangoflies-20241111065800-Commander_Keane-20241111063700","replies":["c-Commander_Keane-20241111070100-Mangoflies-20241111065800"]}}-->

@Mangoflies, while you are here, I see the draft says "The search operc" so it appears the sentence got cut off. Commander Keane (talk) 07:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241111070100","author":"Commander Keane","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Commander_Keane-20241111070100-Mangoflies-20241111065800","replies":[]}}-->

I have created a discussion on Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/STEM that discusses adding/removing several types of aircraft, with an emphasis on removing some U.S. planes due to them being over represented and adding non-U.S. aircraft. Please feel free to join the conversation. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 01:34, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241112013400","author":"GeogSage","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GeogSage-20241112013400-Conversation_on_Vital_Articles_about_adding_and_removing_several_types_of_milita","replies":[]}}-->

Aviationwikiflight has been completely removing sources from primarily Russian plane crashes and leaving them entirely unsourced, such as this diff. Included are a couple Russian databases as well as links from aviation-safety.net, which is a curated database. Am I missing some reason why this is not a reliable source? SportingFlyer T·C 17:40, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241112174000","author":"SportingFlyer","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SportingFlyer-20241112174000-Aviation-safety.net_reliable?","replies":["c-Nimbus227-20241112181800-SportingFlyer-20241112174000"]}}-->

It's listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation/Resources, that could be used to restore the content. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 18:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241112181800","author":"Nimbus227","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Nimbus227-20241112181800-SportingFlyer-20241112174000","replies":["c-SportingFlyer-20241112232300-Nimbus227-20241112181800"],"displayName":"Nimbus"}}-->

Thanks! SportingFlyer T·C 23:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241112232300","author":"SportingFlyer","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SportingFlyer-20241112232300-Nimbus227-20241112181800","replies":[]}}-->

There has been a previous discussion of airdisaster.ru at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 446#airdisaster.ru. I seem to recall some recent AFDs that discussed it futher, but I'm not positive. As much as I'd love for that to be a reliable source, I personally don't think it meets Wikipedia's standards for a reliable source, and I don't seem to be alone about that. The ASN articles of the accidents in question are solely sourced on that airdisaster.ru site. Since ASN cites it, does it suddenly become a reliable source? I don't think so, but am happy to hear your input about that site and whether ASN using that source makes airdisaster.ru a reliable source. And lurking just around the corner is the topic of whether ASN using that as a source reduces ASN's credibility overall. RecycledPixels (talk) 02:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241113020600","author":"RecycledPixels","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-RecycledPixels-20241113020600-Aviation-safety.net_reliable?","replies":["c-SportingFlyer-20241113082700-RecycledPixels-20241113020600"]}}-->

It's a pretty interesting problem, though, isn't it? It's a pretty important source for historical Russian air disasters, and clearly passes WP:UBO. SportingFlyer T·C 08:27, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241113082700","author":"SportingFlyer","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SportingFlyer-20241113082700-RecycledPixels-20241113020600","replies":["c-RecycledPixels-20241113083500-SportingFlyer-20241113082700"]}}-->

It's a huge source for historical Soviet-era air accidents, and if there was just some way to verify its content it would be a gold mine. But I just don't know if all the database entries are just something someone made up one day. It is definitely not for lack of trying on my part. RecycledPixels (talk) 08:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241113083500","author":"RecycledPixels","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-RecycledPixels-20241113083500-SportingFlyer-20241113082700","replies":[]}}-->

Regarding the removal of ASN, whilst the website is generally reliable, the removed entries cited airdisaster.ru, which appears to be an unreliable source. Whilst the discussion at RS/N was limited, the issues regarding its reliability still stand, and I don't think that ASN citing airdisaster.ru makes the website reliable. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 11:23, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241114112300","author":"Aviationwikiflight","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aviationwikiflight-20241114112300-Aviation-safety.net_reliable?","replies":["c-Jetstreamer-20241114131600-Aviationwikiflight-20241114112300","c-Jan_olieslagers-20241115211600-Aviationwikiflight-20241114112300","c-Jan_olieslagers-20241117184400-Aviationwikiflight-20241114112300"]}}-->

IMO, a "reliable source" backing its content on unreliable sources automatically makes it unreliable. It is true that ASN uses other sources, but we cannot determine what information is reliable and what is not.--Jetstreamer ^Talk 13:16, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241114131600","author":"Jetstreamer","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jetstreamer-20241114131600-Aviationwikiflight-20241114112300","replies":[]}}-->

My 2 eurocents: the crux seems to be that we think/judge/decide very black vs. white. Either a source is totally reliable or totally unreliable. A bit more nuance would help a lot. The least we could do is to evaluate/judge individual accident reports on sites like ASN for the reliability of their sources, instead of accepting/denouncing the whole source as such. Jan olieslagers (talk) 21:16, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241115211600","author":"Jan olieslagers","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jan_olieslagers-20241115211600-Aviationwikiflight-20241114112300","replies":["c-SportingFlyer-20241115224000-Jan_olieslagers-20241115211600"]}}-->

Aviationwikiflight keeps removing the sources. It seems like the reason airdisasters.ru would be unreliable is because it appears self-published, but it's cited by other reliable sources, and in the article I'm specifically interested in the basic database information has been confirmed or used by newspaper articles, and is used on other wikis as well. I don't see a reason to call it blanket unreliable, more of a "use with caution." SportingFlyer T·C 22:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241115224000","author":"SportingFlyer","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SportingFlyer-20241115224000-Jan_olieslagers-20241115211600","replies":["c-Aviationwikiflight-20241116102400-SportingFlyer-20241115224000","c-Jan_olieslagers-20241117183700-SportingFlyer-20241115224000"]}}-->

Other than ASN, what other reliable sources cite airdisaster.ru? Additionally, as this source puts it: "The sources of information on the Airdisaster.ru website are not indicated," which calls into question where the database gets its information from and whether or not the information presented is accurate or not. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 10:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241116102400","author":"Aviationwikiflight","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Aviationwikiflight-20241116102400-SportingFlyer-20241115224000","replies":["c-SportingFlyer-20241117222000-Aviationwikiflight-20241116102400"]}}-->

But they do have a link to the final investigation report on airdisaster.ru for that specific crash, so it's possible it was added later or that the article was mistaken. SportingFlyer T·C 22:20, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241117222000","author":"SportingFlyer","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-SportingFlyer-20241117222000-Aviationwikiflight-20241116102400","replies":["c-Aviationwikiflight-20241118033600-SportingFlyer-20241117222000"]}}-->

The linked article above was published on 23 February 2017, and looking through the Internet Archive, this archived version of the airdisaster.ru entry, dated from 24 February 2017, does show that the entry did not cite any sources for its information until 2020-2021 judging from this archived version from 12 May 2021 which means that, for around 3-4 years, the information presented was unsourced. So while some entries may cite final reports, the majority of entries on soviet aviation accidents do not cite any sources. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 03:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241118033600","author":"Aviationwikiflight","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Aviationwikiflight-20241118033600-SportingFlyer-20241117222000","replies":[]}}-->

Yes, "use with caution" would add a third step on the ladder of reliability of information sources, a 50% improvement! Jan olieslagers (talk) 18:37, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241117183700","author":"Jan olieslagers","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Jan_olieslagers-20241117183700-SportingFlyer-20241115224000","replies":[]}}-->

On a general note, I have been contributing to ASN, a few times creating new entries in the database but more frequently honing detail on existing entries. Time and again I found my contributions to be carefully considered, and handled accordingly. So it seems hard to condemn them totally for probably showing too much confidence in one particular resource - though it might indeed be doubtful. Jan olieslagers (talk) 18:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241117184400","author":"Jan olieslagers","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jan_olieslagers-20241117184400-Aviationwikiflight-20241114112300","replies":[]}}-->

Neal Boortz has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241114022500","author":"Z1720","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Z1720-20241114022500-Good_article_reassessment_for_Neal_Boortz","replies":[]}}-->

Several users have been attempting to remove sourced content about the J-31B from the Shenyang J-35 article without providing sources to challenge the existing sources. More eyes on the situation would be appreciated. - ZLEA _T\^C 13:24, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241114132400","author":"ZLEA","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ZLEA-20241114132400-Repeated_removal_of_sourced_content_at_Shenyang_J-35","replies":[]}}-->

Baikonur_Krayniy_Airport says the offset is UTC+6 but Time in Kazakhstan says it is UTC+5. I suppose the +6 might have been written during DST or something like that? What's the canonical source for this data? --Ysangkok (talk) 16:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241115165500","author":"Ysangkok","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ysangkok-20241115165500-Good_source_for_time_zones_for_airports","replies":["c-Jan_olieslagers-20241115210200-Ysangkok-20241115165500"]}}-->

It would seem to me that you are confused by an unusual uncanonical example. Baikonur is on Kazakhstan territory, but has been leased out to Moscow until 2050, as I read; so that it is under Russian authority. That said, it seems not impossible to find an API somewhere on the www to which one feeds a coordinate pair, and gets a timezone descriptor as response. The reliability remains to be seen, especially in a situation as unusual as this one. Jan olieslagers (talk) 21:02, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241115210200","author":"Jan olieslagers","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jan_olieslagers-20241115210200-Ysangkok-20241115165500","replies":[]}}-->

John Glenn Columbus International Airport has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 15:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241116152700","author":"Z1720","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Z1720-20241116152700-Good_article_reassessment_for_John_Glenn_Columbus_International_Airport","replies":[]}}-->

Wikipedia's algorithm has directed the Timeline of Ufology to Fringe topic noticeboard, which got a lot of pushbacks. If you guys think it's necessary, could you save it by voting in the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timeline of UFOs? The content could be updated that is more oriented towards aviation, given that the AIAA UAP Integration and Outreach Committee (https://aiaauap.org/) already exists. VaudevillianScientist (talk) 20:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241118205500","author":"VaudevillianScientist","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-VaudevillianScientist-20241118205500-UAP_studies?","replies":[]}}-->

Can somebody please source this stub? It’s part of the November citation drive. Bearian (talk) 04:52, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241119045200","author":"Bearian","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bearian-20241119045200-Pneudraulics","replies":[]}}-->

Moved to Template talk:Infobox aircraft occurrence § Post-RfC discussion

 – Aviationwikiflight (talk) 11:04, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201110400","author":"Aviationwikiflight","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aviationwikiflight-20241201110400-Post-RfC_discussion","replies":[]}}-->

I have proposed that the List of accidents and incidents involving commercial aircraft is split into two new lists. Please feel free to join the discussion. Mjroots (talk) 06:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241120061100","author":"Mjroots","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mjroots-20241120061100-List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft","replies":[]}}-->

Kamloops Airport has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 17:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241126172700","author":"Z1720","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Z1720-20241126172700-Good_article_reassessment_for_Kamloops_Airport","replies":[]}}-->

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Attitude (psychology)#Requested move 23 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk) 18:50, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241130185000","author":"Raladic","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Raladic-20241130185000-Requested_move_at_Talk:Attitude_(psychology)#Requested_move_23_November_2024","replies":[]}}-->

I just created 2024 New Jersey drone sightings. It may be of interest to members of this project. Thriley (talk) 03:17, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241205031700","author":"Thriley","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thriley-20241205031700-2024_New_Jersey_drone_sightings","replies":["c-The_Bushranger-20241205032300-Thriley-20241205031700","c-Anne_drew-20241206155900-Thriley-20241205031700"]}}-->

...pretty sure this is WP:TOOSOON. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:23, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241205032300","author":"The Bushranger","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-The_Bushranger-20241205032300-Thriley-20241205031700","replies":["c-Thriley-20241205032800-The_Bushranger-20241205032300"]}}-->

It’s been getting widespread press for over two weeks. I think it passes notability. I’ll hunt for more good sources. Thriley (talk) 03:28, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241205032800","author":"Thriley","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Thriley-20241205032800-The_Bushranger-20241205032300","replies":[]}}-->

I also created a related article: 2024 US air base drone incursions in the United Kingdom. Contributors welcome! – Anne drew 15:59, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241206155900","author":"Anne drew","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Anne_drew-20241206155900-Thriley-20241205031700","replies":[]}}-->

I have opened a discussion on tweaking the usage guidelines for the 'Infobox aircraft occurrence' template. -- Deeday-UK (talk) 11:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241208113000","author":"Deeday-UK","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Deeday-UK-20241208113000-Infobox_aircraft_occurrence_template_usage_proposal","replies":[]}}-->

I recently noticed that pretty much every list of airports has a link to a page (or subpage) on this wikiproject, Wikipedia: WikiProject Aviation/Airline destination lists, having been added in 2010 by Zyxw. However, MOS:LINKSTYLE says "In articles, do not link to pages outside the article namespace, except in articles about Wikipedia itself". Should these links be removed? Kdroo (talk) 06:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241213062900","author":"Kdroo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kdroo-20241213062900-Lists_of_airports_and_Airline_destination_list_links","replies":[]}}-->

I just created a stub for PteroDynamics. It may be of interest to members of this project. Thriley (talk) 06:21, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241214062100","author":"Thriley","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thriley-20241214062100-PteroDynamics","replies":[]}}-->

So the aviation accidents and incidents template for several countries (namely the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, and Russia; arguably also true for France) are getting too large to navigate properly.

In the case of Soviet aviation incidents, using small text and standard width on a 1920×1080 screen only displays two thirds of the template (1930s to 1970–1974). The same setting also only displays ~60% of the British aviation incidents template (Before 1910 to 1960s). And for French and Russian aviation incidents the template occupies almost the entire screen.

I've set up a draft in my userpage to split up those nations' aviation templates but I would like your opinion here. DemocracyDeprivationDisorder (talk) 06:00, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241216060000","author":"DemocracyDeprivationDisorder","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DemocracyDeprivationDisorder-20241216060000-Aviation_accidents\/incidents_template_splitting?","replies":[]}}-->

Melbourne Airport has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 17:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241218172700","author":"Z1720","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Z1720-20241218172700-Good_article_reassessment_for_Melbourne_Airport","replies":[]}}-->