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Please do not add or change content, as you did at Love at first sight, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 00:13, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-21T00:13:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:13:00.000Z-October_2020","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:15:00.000Z-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:13:00.000Z"]}}-->

I added reliable, secondary sources, which you bald-facedly reverted. Don't come lecture me in editing, it's you who are at fault, talk. — Peleio Aquiles (talk) 00:15, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-21T00:15:00.000Z","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:15:00.000Z-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:13:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Sorry, but "His motivation is not supported by a verification of the actual content he's removing" doesn't make any sense. Motivations aren't usually supported, and the content I removed precisely lacked secondary verification. If you don't understand that content in Wikipedia needs secondary sourcing AND needs to be relevant, then please re-read our guidelines. Plus, the whole thing is ridiculous. Imagine adding a list to Beer of all the people in literature or the media or politics or whatever who drank a beer. Drmies (talk) 00:16, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-21T00:16:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:16:00.000Z-October_2020","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:16:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:17:00.000Z-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:16:00.000Z","c-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:16:00.000Z-1"]}}-->

I know very well what secondary sources are; the sources I used are secondary. The primary source for the Jonathan and David story would be the Bible. Secondary sources are those summarizing and discussing the primary source, which is what the two books and article I used as references did. What I said in reverting, and I think is clear enough, is that your description of the material you removed was false, talk. — Peleio Aquiles (talk) 00:22, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-21T00:22:00.000Z","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Maybe these actually verify what you claim it verifies--but that doesn't mean a. it's noteworthy and b. the rest of the list is properly verified. It is not. Drmies (talk) 00:17, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-21T00:17:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:17:00.000Z-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

A. They're books and an article published by reputable publishers and a journal. I don't know what you mean by "noteworthy", but I don't think a book and an article need to be "noteworthy" to be included here; they need be reliable, which they are by the standards of the house. B. Then remove the other parts of the list, not the one I inserted; you never edited that article before my edit, so I don't buy that you were not taking aim at my edit. Do you object to all discussion of homosexual themes in the Bible? CC: User:Drmies — Peleio Aquiles (talk) 00:22, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-21T00:22:00.000Z","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:16:00.000Z-1","replies":["c-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:26:00.000Z-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

Don't be silly: your last comment is ridiculous. No, I will be happy to stay a while and celebrate same-sex love with you, in the bible and elsewhere. But a. you reinstated a long and ridiculous list, and b. surely there are better places to put that paragraph than a silly little article on an idiomatic phrase. This content belongs in Samuel 1, or (obviously) in David and Jonathan. Drmies (talk) 00:26, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-21T00:26:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:26:00.000Z-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:32:00.000Z-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:26:00.000Z"]}}-->

One of the books I cited was by an author noteworthy to have merited an entry on Wikipedia, so I think that answers your first question. The sources I cited were not only reliable, published in reputable academic sources, but at least one is also of some celebrity. And as I cited, you never edited that article before; and your blanket deletion of content happened ONE MINUTE (or what felt to me like one minute) after my edit, giving the first example of love at first sight between people of the same sex in the entry. I couldn't but think you had a problem about my edit in particular, since you never intervened in the article before. CC: User:Drmies — Peleio Aquiles (talk) 00:32, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-21T00:32:00.000Z","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:32:00.000Z-Drmies-2020-10-21T00:26:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2020-10-23T18:26:00.000Z-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

I didn't have a problem specifically with your edit, but it alerted me to the article. Drmies (talk) 18:26, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-23T18:26:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2020-10-23T18:26:00.000Z-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-21T00:32:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

this isn't just unsourced, it's not even mentioned in the article which is almost worse. You are clearly capable of sourcing but you seem to have ignored your discussion with User:Drmies - this doesn't bode well for you. Doug Weller talk 13:27, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-23T13:27:00.000Z","author":"Doug Weller","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Doug_Weller-2020-10-23T13:27:00.000Z-You've_been_asked_not_to_add_information_without_reliable_sources,_but","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-23T14:39:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-10-23T13:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

User:Doug Weller, when I came across the article, I wondered who the idiot is who still believes M269 has anything to do with Neolithic farming expansion. Your post answers my question. This thesis that you are defending is from the 2000s, which is almost prehistory when it comes to ancient DNA research. Ancient samples only began to be genotyped in the past decade, and from studies published since then, we know today that M269 does not exist among Anatolian farmers or among European farmers who descend from them. M269 was first found in the Yamnaya culture, located on the Pontic-Caspian steppe, and from cultures that are genetically linked to it, such as Corded Ware and Bell Beaker. This has been common knowledge since 2015. How is it that someone who apparently follows the subject has not yet learned this fact?

Go to the entries of other subjects pertinent to this subject - for example, Yamnaya and R1b - and you'll see a multitude of sources attesting to each of the facts that I am teaching you here, that Western European R1b, which is entirely derived from M269, came from the Bronze Age steppe expansion and had not yet arrived in Europe in the Neolithic.

I had not entered a reference because I was on the cell phone. I intended to remedy this situation later, when I got home, but now that I'm here, I have lost my will. Your presumptuous, ignorant and unnecessarily threatening message made me lose the will to collaborate in editing that shamefully outdated entry.

Why mention here my discussion with User: Drmies, which was about another topic? Why being so needlessly confrontational?User: Drmies accused me of not using noteworthy secondary sources, but anyone who reads my replies to him or, better yet, the edit I made and that he removed, will see that this accusation was ridiculous and incorrect. To justify himself, he had to resort to the fact that, even if my edit complied with the standards, other items that he removed, inserted before my edit, were not up to Wikipedia's standards.

Learn to read. Everything you've done towards me here - starting with removing my edit in R-M269 to your comments regarding my discussion with User: Drmies - proves that you don't read - you don't current research on subjects that you edit, and you don't read Wikipedia discussions between users that you needlessly dredge up later. — Peleio Aquiles (talk) 14:39, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-23T14:39:00.000Z","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-23T14:39:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-10-23T13:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Doug_Weller-2020-10-24T12:59:00.000Z-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-23T14:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yawn. You came to an article and replaced sourced text (you denied there was a source but it's right there in the article) with unsourced, and didn't even add an edit summary. The origin that you added isn't even mentioned in the article, so certainly didn't belong in the infobox. That's not the way to edit. There's no deadline for editing articles. If you absolutely had to do something immediately, you could have started a brief talk page discussion or tagged the article from your phone. Then I might have done what in fact I started to do last night at RSN, look for better sources. All you did was menton Haak again and point to two articles, one which seems to rely entirely on Haak et al for origin. Doug Weller talk 12:59, 24 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-24T12:59:00.000Z","author":"Doug Weller","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Doug_Weller-2020-10-24T12:59:00.000Z-Peleio_Aquiles-2020-10-23T14:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, I'm RegentsPark. I noticed that you made a comment on the page Talk:Yamnaya culture that didn't seem very civil, so it has been removed. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. RegentsPark (comment) 12:42, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-29T12:42:00.000Z","author":"RegentsPark","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-RegentsPark-2020-10-29T12:42:00.000Z-October_2020_2","replies":["c-RegentsPark-2020-10-29T12:46:00.000Z-RegentsPark-2020-10-29T12:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hi. I removed your comment on the Yamnaya culture talk page. It is not helpful to accuse an editor of acting in bad faith. Far better to focus on the content you want to add and to bring reliable sources to the table. Please note that this is not a comment on your content issue. Best. --RegentsPark (comment) 12:46, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-29T12:46:00.000Z","author":"RegentsPark","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-RegentsPark-2020-10-29T12:46:00.000Z-RegentsPark-2020-10-29T12:42:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Wikipedia does not cite itself. I do not speak German, and I don't think the readers of the English encyclopedia understand German, so quoting another citation that is written in German is harder to verify. Among Us for POTUS (talk) 21:17, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-06-19T21:17:00.000Z","author":"Among Us for POTUS","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Among_Us_for_POTUS-2022-06-19T21:17:00.000Z-Changes_to_sexuality_page","replies":[]}}-->

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Hi there Peleio, sorry to intrude like this. I tend to think Korny and I would agree on roughly nothing, but your tiff with them is becoming uncomfortably personal. I understand the aggravation, but I think it would be for everyone's best if you could try to stick closer to content complaints. I would appreciate it, anyway, though that may not change your opinion at all. Whatever you decide, all the best, and happy editing. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 20:29, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221123202900","author":"Dumuzid","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dumuzid-20221123202900-Hello!","replies":[]}}-->

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You need to read wp:bludgeon. Slatersteven (talk) 17:04, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221204170400","author":"Slatersteven","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Slatersteven-20221204170400-Bludegon","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-20221204172500-Slatersteven-20221204170400"]}}-->

And you need to stop being a bad loser. The reason I had to reply so much on that talk page is that you kept missing the mark, distorting reliable sources, and making recommendations that were unnecessary according to guidelines, the latter being very curious coming from someone who was ostensibly preoccupied with preventing bloating. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 17:25, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221204172500","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-20221204172500-Slatersteven-20221204170400","replies":[]}}-->

You may be interested to know that I have added some notes to the article on the sexuality of Frederick the Great. Kunst-Theodor (talk) 17:21, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221209172100","author":"Kunst-Theodor","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kunst-Theodor-20221209172100-Frederick_the_Great","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-20221210004200-Kunst-Theodor-20221209172100"]}}-->

Great find! Peleio Aquiles (talk) 00:42, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221210004200","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-20221210004200-Kunst-Theodor-20221209172100","replies":[]}}-->

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I believe you violated the current 1RR rule on the Libs of TikTok article with these two edits. One of them has already been reverted, so I think you're obligated to self-revert the other one. Korny O'Near (talk) 14:12, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230209141200","author":"Korny O'Near","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Korny_O'Near-20230209141200-Libs_of_TikTok_1RR_violation","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-20230209154000-Korny_O'Near-20230209141200"]}}-->

That is not how the 1RR works, I believe. Each revert was made to a separate part of the enry, so no edit warring was committed by me. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 15:40, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230209154000","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-20230209154000-Korny_O'Near-20230209141200","replies":["c-RegentsPark-20230209155700-Peleio_Aquiles-20230209154000"]}}-->

Actually, that is how it works. Whether a revert involves the same or different material, it counts as a revert. Assuming there is a 1RR restriction on the page, your second revert violates it and you should self revert. --RegentsPark (comment) 15:57, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230209155700","author":"RegentsPark","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-RegentsPark-20230209155700-Peleio_Aquiles-20230209154000","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-20230209163400-RegentsPark-20230209155700"]}}-->

Per Korny, one of the reverts has already been reverted, though. And the 24h period has already expired. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 16:34, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230209163400","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-20230209163400-RegentsPark-20230209155700","replies":["c-Korny_O'Near-20230209164600-Peleio_Aquiles-20230209163400"]}}-->

I believe this too counts as a violation. And it wasn't 24 hours later, it was only about 15 hours later. Korny O'Near (talk) 16:46, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230209164600","author":"Korny O'Near","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Korny_O'Near-20230209164600-Peleio_Aquiles-20230209163400","replies":["c-Korny_O'Near-20230209201500-Korny_O'Near-20230209164600"]}}-->

Please just undo this edit. It's clearly a revert, even though it isn't labeled as that. Korny O'Near (talk) 20:15, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230209201500","author":"Korny O'Near","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Korny_O'Near-20230209201500-Korny_O'Near-20230209164600","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-20230210214100-Korny_O'Near-20230209201500"]}}-->

Sorry, I'm just seeing this reply. Since you've already reverted another one of my edits, is there anything left for me to revert? Peleio Aquiles (talk) 21:41, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230210214100","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-20230210214100-Korny_O'Near-20230209201500","replies":["c-Korny_O'Near-20230213202500-Peleio_Aquiles-20230210214100"]}}-->

No. But please try to pay more attention to this kind of thing in the future. Korny O'Near (talk) 20:25, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230213202500","author":"Korny O'Near","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Korny_O'Near-20230213202500-Peleio_Aquiles-20230210214100","replies":[]}}-->

Hi PA. Please use edit summaries, especially when reverting other editors (except in cases of vandalism). If your recent LoTT revert was meant to signal frustration, trust me I share it. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:08, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230223020800","author":"Firefangledfeathers","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Firefangledfeathers-20230223020800-Edit_summaries","replies":[]}}-->

I have reverted your edit to Aaron Yan. Yan does not state that he is gay in the reference you have given, as you claim. The reference itself is comes from ''Mirror Media'' which is a gossip mag. A full year later, Yan was asked directly if he was gay, and would neither confirm or deny that he is. Is he gay? Maybe. Probably. But, until he himself openly states it, then we're not in the business of outing people based on celebrity gossip. ExRat (talk) 22:56, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230606225600","author":"ExRat","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ExRat-20230606225600-Re:_Your_edit_to_Aaron_Yan","replies":["c-Ponyo-20230606230100-ExRat-20230606225600","c-Peleio_Aquiles-20230606231200-ExRat-20230606225600"]}}-->

To add, WP:BLPCAT and WP:EGRS specifically apply here.-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 23:01, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230606230100","author":"Ponyo","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ponyo-20230606230100-ExRat-20230606225600","replies":[]}}-->

User:ExRat, at least allow that he be placed in LGBT categories. His own lawyer has confirmed he's been in same-sex relationships. To say he isn't confirmed as at least some type of LGBT is false, or at least anally retentive in its extremist adherence to formalities. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 23:12, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230606231200","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-20230606231200-ExRat-20230606225600","replies":["c-Ponyo-20230606231600-Peleio_Aquiles-20230606231200","c-ExRat-20230606232400-Peleio_Aquiles-20230606231200"]}}-->

Did you read the policies I linked to? Unless Yan specifically self-identifies as gay/LGBTQ+ in reliable sources, the information cannot appear in the article. If there is no such sourced information in the article, we cannot have categories describing him as such. This is basic WP:BLP policy.-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 23:16, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230606231600","author":"Ponyo","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Ponyo-20230606231600-Peleio_Aquiles-20230606231200","replies":[]}}-->

Peleio Aquiles, apart from the obvious policy violations listed above that that would incur, Yan himself doesn't even acknowledge that he is gay. All we have is gossip celebrity sites stating that someone claiming to be his ex-boyfriend states that he cheated on him. None of that is verified. The other "quote" from the same gossip sites about his parents not accepting his sexuality leads nowhere to the orginal "quote" of Yan stating that. You can't place someone into LGBT categories if they themselves don't even publicly acknowledge they are LGBT. ExRat (talk) 23:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230606232400","author":"ExRat","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-ExRat-20230606232400-Peleio_Aquiles-20230606231200","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-20230606232900-ExRat-20230606232400"]}}-->

This isn't even true. He has personally recognized he's been in same-sex relationships, as have his staff, when he controversy you're alluding to leaked o the public. He has personally said his family's had trouble accepting his sexual orientation. Don't tell me any family has trouble accepting a heterosexual son. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 23:29, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230606232900","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-20230606232900-ExRat-20230606232400","replies":["c-ExRat-20230607001700-Peleio_Aquiles-20230606232900"]}}-->

Then you should have no trouble finding a direct quote from him from a reliable source (not a celebrity tabloid gossip site) of him stating that he is, in fact, gay. Again, the "quote" of him saying that his family had trouble accepting his sexual orientation – where is the original quote of him stating that? All I could find were gossip sites claiming he stated that; one even had an internal link that was supposed to lead you to the article of him stating this, but the link led to a broken site. ExRat (talk) 00:17, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230607001700","author":"ExRat","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-ExRat-20230607001700-Peleio_Aquiles-20230606232900","replies":[]}}-->

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Peleio_Aquiles, your edit here[1] is against ONUS and isn't supported by the sources. Take it to talk. Do not edit war. Springee (talk) 13:45, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20231226134500","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Springee-20231226134500-Nemov-20230923010000","replies":[]}}-->

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It seems like your Misinformation in the Israel–Hamas war contributions aren't accurately summarizing what the sources say. It wasn't Channel 4 who concluded that recording was an "obvious fabrication", it was Hamas - that's what your source says explicitly.

In your other edit, your summary seems to imply that IDF claimed the detainees were all Hamas soldiers, when actually they were all civilians. Both seem to misrepresent what the sources say. For starters, neither source mentions any claims by the IDF. One mentions a claim by "Israel" about them being suspects, the other mentions a suggestion by "Israeli media" that they were soldiers. The sources also claim that "several" detainees, not all of them, were identified as civilians.

There should also be more attribution about where some of these claims are coming from, e.g. The Guardian mentions a Hamas spokesperson behind the UN school claim, rather than just reporting them uncritically as if they were established facts. XDanielx (talk) 17:57, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240524175700","author":"XDanielx","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-XDanielx-20240524175700-POV_content","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-20240524193100-XDanielx-20240524175700"]}}-->

@XDanielx There may have been some confusion on my part in describing the New Arab article, because I know with absolute certainty that Channel 4 produced a report refuting the audio that Israel published. So when I read the quote about the "obvious fabrication" of the audio, it may have crossed my mind that it came from Channel 4 itself. However, the "correction" you made completely misses the fact that Channel 4 spoke to experts of Arabic who endorsed Hamas' position against the audio, and the refutation, therefore, did not come only from Hamas, as the edit you made suggests. You must have visited the link to evaluate the contribution I made, and it's hard to believe you didn't see that part of the article. So you're at least as guilty of POV editing as I am.

In fact, it wasn't just linguistic analysis that proved the fraud; Channel 4 also mentions technical analysis, confirming that the audio was not extracted from a hacked phone call, as claimed by the Israeli army. I'll see if I can find a reference for this to insert into the article.

You also distort what The Guardian says. The newspaper says that "Palestinians – including a Hamas spokesperson" claim that the men and boys were taken from a UN school; the source of the statement is not just the Hamas spokesperson.

And by the way, the BBC geolocated the first and most famous video of these captured and stripped men and boys to the vicinity of a UN school, which corroborates the testimony of the Palestinians and the Hamas spokesman that you seek to minimize.

You're also distorting my edit, as I didn't even use The Guardian as a source for that claim -- I used Al Jazeera, which says the following: Media reports later revealed that the Israeli army had forcibly taken the Palestinian men and boys after separating them from their families in United Nations-run schools which serve as shelters for the displaced in northern Gaza. Media reports, not Hamas spokesperson. My edit correctly conveys this information, while you distorted it here.

And my edit never says that all the men were identified -- it only says that "several" were. It's right there in the text.

At the time that videos showing the captured men and boys began to circulate, the Israeli army began to claim that Hamas was collapsing, and pro-Israeli media sought to prove this with videos of the supposed surrender. It was only after internet denizens began identifying civilians and children among the captured and stripped Palestinians that Israel started to admit that the vast majority of them were in fact civilians -- 85% according to the IDF, but even that is probably an underestimate, as reports from captured men and boys say that all the other people they saw with them under israeli custody were also civilians forcibly separated from their families. I do not blame the Israeli media for falling for the false propaganda of the videos, as it is clear that the Israeli army's intention in producing these videos was to illustrate the surrender of Hamas; no one would have imagined that it was actually the intention of the army to be caught subjecting civilians, children, journalists and aid workers to such degradation. And, therefore, the video counts as misinformation on Israel's part. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 19:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240524193100","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-20240524193100-XDanielx-20240524175700","replies":["c-XDanielx-20240524210400-Peleio_Aquiles-20240524193100","c-XDanielx-20240524211800-Peleio_Aquiles-20240524193100"]}}-->

I think it's fine if you want to add a bit of content about these Arabic experts. It's just a separate claim. It's not POV editing for me to do the minimum work needed to correct clearly false information, without expanding the content to discuss separate claims.

You wrote "the Palestinians shown in the videos were in fact civilian men and boys". Later you used better wording, but that bit of text clearly implies that the whole group was civilians, which is very different from what the sources claim.

You also wrote "giving instructions to their victims on how to behave in front of the camera". Can you clarify what you meant? Al Jazeera mentions an order to "surrender his weapon"; was there something else? If not, framing it like acting advice seems pretty misleading.

I don't really doubt that some kind of staging took place here, but we have to be more careful to stick to what sources say. XDanielx (talk) 21:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240524210400","author":"XDanielx","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-XDanielx-20240524210400-Peleio_Aquiles-20240524193100","replies":["c-XDanielx-20240524221600-XDanielx-20240524210400"]}}-->

Thanks for the edits, I think it's better, but "pick up and lay arms for the camera" still seems to go beyond what the sources say? I don't see "pick up" mentioned, and "for the camera" seems like an added interpretation. — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 22:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240524221600","author":"XDanielx","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-XDanielx-20240524221600-XDanielx-20240524210400","replies":[]}}-->

I see your point the IDF may have indirectly planted the idea that these were Hamas militants surrendering. I still don't think we should say "the IDF began publicly circulating videos allegedly showing Hamas militants ..." It seems implied that the IDF was making a concrete claim about them being militants, which doesn't seem to be the case. In any case we should be specific about who was making any such allegations, otherwise it's a MOS:WEASEL issue.

Where did the IDF say 85% were civilians? If that's the case, why include the weaker claims from Al Jazeera etc, should the IDF be quoted instead? XDanielx (talk) 21:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240524211800","author":"XDanielx","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-XDanielx-20240524211800-Peleio_Aquiles-20240524193100","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-20240524214600-XDanielx-20240524211800"]}}-->

That not all of the men shown in those degrading videos were publicly identified by name and profession does not mean that the remainder were combatants. As previously stated, there is testimony from the victims that all the people they saw taken by the Israeli army were civilians and children separated from their families. I see no reason to include the figure of the Israeli army. Not only was it published only after there was significant skepticism from the public and media outlets towards what the videos were purported to show, but it may well be another example of the Israeli disinformation that the entry exposes. Because it's less shameful to say that the people they stripped, tortured, humiliated and then theatrically filmed were only 7/8 civilians than 100%. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 21:46, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240524214600","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-20240524214600-XDanielx-20240524211800","replies":["c-XDanielx-20240524221900-Peleio_Aquiles-20240524214600"]}}-->

Right, I'm not claiming that most (or even any) were combatants, I just want to be sure we're not making original claims that aren't backed by sources. If we only have sources to back the statement that "several" were civilians, that's what we should include (if anything). Are there sources to back the stronger claims that you're making here? — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 22:19, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240524221900","author":"XDanielx","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-XDanielx-20240524221900-Peleio_Aquiles-20240524214600","replies":[]}}-->

Content, not contributor. If you continue with the personalized commentary you will be topic banned. If you believe there is a behavioral issue being it to AE or ANI. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:34, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240627213400","author":"ScottishFinnishRadish","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627213400-Knock_off_the_personal_commentary","replies":["c-Peleio_Aquiles-20240627215900-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627213400","c-Peleio_Aquiles-20240627220000-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627213400"]}}-->

I don't know what AE and ANI are. How do I go there? Peleio Aquiles (talk) 21:59, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240627215900","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-20240627215900-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627213400","replies":["c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627220100-Peleio_Aquiles-20240627215900"]}}-->

WP:AE is arbitration enforcement, WP:ANI is the administrators noticeboard for incidents. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240627220100","author":"ScottishFinnishRadish","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627220100-Peleio_Aquiles-20240627215900","replies":["c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627221700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627220100"]}}-->

Arbitration enforcement requires that the report have a specific format. If you click the Click here to add a new enforcement request link at AE it will give you a template you can fill out. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:17, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240627221700","author":"ScottishFinnishRadish","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627221700-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627220100","replies":["c-XDanielx-20240627222600-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627221700"]}}-->

I've likewise been planning to file something AE when I have time. It seems one thing we agree on is that some kind of intervention is unfortunately necessary. Should we just proceed with two separate requests? — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 22:26, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240627222600","author":"XDanielx","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-XDanielx-20240627222600-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627221700","replies":["c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627222800-XDanielx-20240627222600"]}}-->

Yeah. AE isn't really set up for a two party adversarial situation. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:28, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240627222800","author":"ScottishFinnishRadish","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627222800-XDanielx-20240627222600","replies":[]}}-->

@ScottishFinnishRadish I don't know what AE and ANI are. How do I go there? Peleio Aquiles (talk) 22:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240627220000","author":"Peleio Aquiles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peleio_Aquiles-20240627220000-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627213400","replies":[]}}-->

Hello. You have made several reversions to Misinformation in the Israel–Hamas war within the last hour. Per WP:ArbCom and WP:PIA, editors are only allowed to make a single reversion to any article related to the Israel-Palestine conflict within a 24-hour window. Your first edit on the article today was a direct reversion of XDanielx. Any subsequent reversions following that edit should be self-reverted. A very quick check confirmed this edit was a violation of the WP:1RR rule, as it reverted this addition. Please make all the necessary self-reversions, otherwise, you may be reported. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240627214900","author":"WeatherWriter","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-WeatherWriter-20240627214900-Violation_of_1RR_Rule","replies":["c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627215600-WeatherWriter-20240627214900"],"displayName":"Weather Event Writer"}}-->

Consecutive edits count as a single revert. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:56, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240627215600","author":"ScottishFinnishRadish","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240627215600-WeatherWriter-20240627214900","replies":[]}}-->

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a report involving you at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement regarding a possible violation of an Arbitration Committee decision. The thread is Peleio Aquiles. Thank you. — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 01:20, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240628012000","author":"XDanielx","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-XDanielx-20240628012000-Notice_of_Arbitration_Enforcement_noticeboard_discussion","replies":[]}}-->

You have put your response in the wrong place put it in the section "Statement by Peleio Aquiles" Selfstudier (talk) 00:26, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240629002600","author":"Selfstudier","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Selfstudier-20240629002600-Response_at_AE","replies":[]}}-->

The following topic ban now applies to you:

You are indefinitely topic banned from the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed.

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This topic ban is imposed in my capacity as an uninvolved administrator under the authority of the Arbitration Committee's decision at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles#Final decision and, if applicable, the contentious topics procedure. This sanction has been recorded in the log of sanctions. Please read WP:TBAN to understand what a topic ban is. If you do not comply with the topic ban, you may be blocked for an extended period to enforce the ban.

If you wish to appeal the ban, please read the appeals process. You are free to contact me on my talk page if anything of the above is unclear to you. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 14:59, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240702145900","author":"Red-tailed hawk","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Red-tailed_hawk-20240702145900-Notice_that_you_are_now_subject_to_an_arbitration_enforcement_topic_ban","replies":[],"displayName":"Red-tailed\u00a0hawk"}}-->

Your account has been blocked indefinitely because it is suspected that it has been compromised. If your account is globally locked, contact cawikimedia.org for assistance. Otherwise, if you are able to confirm that you are the user who created this account, please read the guide to appealing blocks (specifically this section), then add this below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240713140000","author":"ScottishFinnishRadish","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ScottishFinnishRadish-20240713140000-July_2024","replies":[]}}-->