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Darrièr comentari: 20 agost de 201412 comentaris3 personas a la discussion
Hoi,
I hope you are doing fine. Good luck for your convention and by the way, congratulations about the way MediaViewer is handled in the German wiki if you ever participate in it.
I will try to answer your questions according to their order
My questions are:
When did discussions on bot-generated articles start in Occitan Wikipedia?
I think I was the one to raise the issue a short while after I came back here. I had noticed the Occitan wikipedia was growing way too fast with very little content. Worse the stubs created by BoulaurBot (Utilizaire:Boulaur's bot) were hardly written in correct Occitan, being some kind of basic information without real sentences.
It was in January 2012. Boulaur had been using a bot to create articles, to go faster in commune entry creation he used intensively templates involving a 36000+ (the number of French communes) entries. This lead Midom to start massive destruction of articles, with a very unfriendly behaviour (no warning to the admins, very rude language in my opinion). We fixed this asking Boulaur to restrain, but he's always acted individually, as I can see in his user discussion page. --— Joan Francés B.(me´n parlar)20 agost de 2014 a 07.10 (UTC)Respon
I then wrote a thread in the Tavern [oc:La_tav%C3%A8rna/021#Per_plaser.2C_arrestatz.2Flimitatz_los_articles_buf.C3.A8cs] begging to stop the process because it was being counterproductive; that is the wiki is not this far from the 100,000 milestone, but its depth is really bad and creating new horrible stubs (sometimes about non-inter esting people!) needed to be put to a halt in order to fix them, make correct and suitable sentences (we have more than 12,000 improper stubs). Unfortunately the discussion went wild and Boulaur disappeared afterwards from the Wikipedia.
What where the arguments for bot-generated articles?
In the discussion there were no real arguments for bot articles though the lack of "hands" was implied.
No discussion for / against. I'm personally for if this is properly mastered: no harm of the systems (servers, dbs), acceptability of entries, proper language (no mistakes). Because I create a huge number of stubs manually in 2011, I was relieved to see a bot taking charge of it. But the result was poor due to the lack of dialogue. --— Joan Francés B.(me´n parlar)20 agost de 2014 a 07.10 (UTC)Respon
What where the most important arguments against it?
I have told you the first (/my) arguments. We then discussed the "depth" and Boulaur told it was not a significant issue and then confused the Dutch Wikipedia (< Deutsch) with the German one. I guess my "correction" about this made him feel really uncomfortable then and the other people who joined the discussion afterwards criticized heavily too contributing somehow to his departure.
Matieu Castel then added that (more or less) "why do we need 100,000 articles if about 80% of them are nothing but the name of the city"
Then another contributor, Algovia, said: "more than 40,000 municipalities nearly empty, more than 10,000 articles of the «Hemibrycon tridens is a species» kind, and merely 10 countries correctly "treated", 4 nearly correctly and 270 in a poor state. (He then provided a map highlighting the problems). In such a situacion, we can create all the possible stubs and go over a million articles, the Occitan wikipedia will always remain a secundary (more or less "worthless") project. I hope my translations were quite correct.
I can't tell. Boulaur always managed the technical aspect (we had previously another real problem with his userboxes which were too heavy and a grave conflict with Domas Mituzas who came here to "fix" this but with an extremely arrogant and disrespectful way of acting ( [oc:Utilizaire:Capsot#Escriches_ancians]) which might remind you of some current attitudes from the Foundation staff currently.
I don't think there were reactions when the first tests/articles were created. I hope the other users will tell you more about this.
How did the discussions developed over the years?
No real discussion afterwards, I guess we don't have much time to lose on discussions either, if you allow a metaphore it would be like your ship getting about to sink with too many holes and water pouring in, so you try to fix them before trying to think about the route...
There hasn't been real discussion about it so... I'm trying from time to time to fill in the blanks but it's such an overwhelming task and my time is too few! Some other people have tried from time to time too. Personally I think we also have a real problem with Wikidata (also managed by Boulaur and with many bugs it seems) that had to be blocked by Joan Francés Blanc (currently a Bureaucrat) and in my view it's a bigger problem since we have lost most of the pictures of our articles, which really create a worse arid landscape... and is not attractive at all for the readers. I intend to raise the issue some time soon (I already have but well...) in order to find a solution about it (told Gerard Mejssen about it but never had any answers so far...). I won't comment much Visual Editor which is a real pain in the ass to me since I sometimes open it instead of my traditional way and I think it needs some time (I don't have) to get used to it... so I wish we could get rid of it (I think no-one uses it here)...
Agree with Claudi. I'd appreciate a non-Occitan bot specialist help us to set up a really savvy way to create articles (for foreign communes, cities...) So if you have some names ;-) --— Joan Francés B.(me´n parlar)20 agost de 2014 a 07.10 (UTC)Respon
Have there been discussions to delete all the articles that have been created by BoulaurBot?
Yep, some outside people came beginning to put "delete" templates on the articles and I reacted filling them, basically because you see in spite of it, we can't decently erase what could be about 1/5 of the Wikipedia and then plunge backwards. The people understood I wasn't willing to let them stick their templates during their errands, so they left (you see outside help is really appreciated but this wasn't really help in my view... just maintenance..)... Our community is way too small, it depends mainly on 4 or 5 people and well such a fall would be morally counterproductive, so we go on trying to improve what we can, and I think that the prospective of reaching some day the 100,000 milestone can give a boost to make our Wikipedia more known and attract new contributors can help in some way, at least that's some kind of fantasy that gives me some energy, and I'm not probably the only one. Going backwards sure wouldn't help us...
I hope I have provided worthy and somewhat interesting answers. Take real care, wish you good luck and pleasure there! Claudi/Capsot (d) 19 agost de 2014 a 11.53 (UTC)Respon
Hi Holder, I'm adding some information as comments to Claudi's answers. Just a precision, I'm not (yet) a Bureaucrat, vote is ongoing... Boulaur's last interventions were to set up stubs using Wikidata. The same poor quality is requiring some manual edition from the very small community of active users. Feel free to mail me for further questions. --— Joan Francés B.(me´n parlar)20 agost de 2014 a 07.10 (UTC)Respon
Thank you for being one of the top Medical editors! I want to use this opportunity to introduce you to our most ambitious project.
We want to use Wikipedia to spread knowledge where it will be used. Studies have shown that Wikipedia is the most common resource of medical knowledge, and used by more people than any other source! We want high quality articles, available to everyone, regardless of language ability. It isn't right that you would need to know a major language to get hold of quality content!
That is why in the recent Ebola crisis (which is still ongoing) we translated information into over 70 languages, many of them small African languages. This was important, as Wikipedia was also shown to be the biggest resource used in Africa for information on Ebola! We see tremendous potential, but also great risks as our information needs to be accurate and well-researched. We only translate articles that have been reviewed by medical doctors and experts, so that what we translate is correct. Many of our translators are professionals, but many are also volunteers, and we need more of you guys – both to translate, but also to import finished translations, and fix grammatical or other style issues that are introduced by the translation process.
Our articles are not only translated into small languages, but also to larger ones, but as of 2015 this requires users to apply for an article to be translated, which can be done here (full articles, short articles) with an easy to manage google document.
So regardless of your background head over to our main page for more information, or to our talk page and ask us questions. Feel free to respond in any language, we will do our best to find some way to communicate. No task is too small, and we need everyone to help out!
I hope you will forgive me for sending this message in English – we also need translators for messages like this, and above all local language community managers, which act as a link between us and you. Also I can not reply on your talk page, so please go to our talk page!
Thank you for helping medical information on Wikipedia grow! -- CFCF🍌 (email) 15:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Darrièr comentari: 23 març de 20163 comentaris2 personas a la discussion
Hi Holder. The spelling for Lei Santas* is incorrect. The article is Lei Santei Marias de la Mar (a village of Provence). The good spelling is "Lei Santei" (plural form in Provençal dialect) or "Las Santas"(plural form in Languedocien dialect), but we can't never write Lei Santas*, a mix of two dialects. So you can delete it! Thank you for the clean-up!Jiròni (d) 22 març de 2016 a 12.03 (UTC)Respon
Darrièr comentari: 12 octobre de 20164 comentaris2 personas a la discussion
Hi Holder,
Thanks for helping us to clean up our wikipedia.
On my side I'm busy creating stub articles on the asteroids. I would really appreciate some guidance on how to set up a bot. I'm for nwo doing the bot myself:
open and create wp page
switch to excel
on excel spreadsheet, select four cells, copy, move down
Use of "copyrighted" images stored in the Occitan wikipedia
Darrièr comentari: 25 genièr de 201710 comentaris4 personas a la discussion
Hello Holder,
Some times ago, the Occitan wikipedia made a decision about the acceptance of "fair use" policies for images with some copyright in the countries where Occitan is in use. The goal was to align Occitan-language pages with their French/Spanish/italian counterparts for
communes/regions... arms and logos.
"24 genièr de 2017 a 08.10 Jfblanc (Discussion | contribucions) a restablit la pagina Fichièr:Olivetta San Michele-Stemma.png (2 revisions e 1 fichièr restablit : no free license but Occitan wikipedia policies for fair use for COAs)"
Please read the requirements for EDP at wmf:Licensing policy. There is no fair use for unused files. You cannot have a vote to overturn wmf:Licensing policy. Holder is helping to enforce the licensing policy of the Wikimedia Foundation.
No, Mr Eightyfivedot Andsohon, I'm puzzled there is some people loving to disturb the few of us trying to maintain this wikipedia at a decent level. We better appreciate our opponents when they are frank. (Our worst enemies were the Franks, so maybe it's unconsciously related). — Joan Francés Blanc (me´n parlar) 24 genièr de 2017 a 14.59 (UTC)Respon
Some people would prefer to do other things, but if admins in this Wikimedia Foundation project don't enforce the wmf:Licensing policy they indeed love to 'disturb', how you call it, those that are happy to re-insert policy violations. 'Manca d'educacion' - you lack education, education to discuss, and so resort to blocking? 'militant' in your ISNI record ... 92.228.96.39 (d) 25 genièr de 2017 a 04.26 (UTC)Respon
Hi Joan Francés Blanc. In the last years I've deleted thousands of files in hundreds of language versions of Wikipedia. Normally, I'm deleting only files that lack any license information. If I have deleted files on ocwiki which had license information, e. g. fair use, I apologize for deleting them. I really didn't wanted to start a discussion about fair use. Best regards. --Holder (d) 25 genièr de 2017 a 19.47 (UTC)Respon
