Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:46, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hello Rawja-

Many of the images that you've recently uploaded to the Wikipedia don't have source information. For example, Image:1990oldsmobilesilhouettesmall.jpg, Image:92silverluminaAPVsmall.jpg, and Image:92transsportsmall.jpg.

If you hold the copyright on these images, it's a really good idea to note that on the page. Otherwise, we have to assume that the images aren't available for free use, and will likely be deleted. Additionally, Image:Admsimage.jpg has a public-domain tag, but there's no information about who released it into the public domain, and it's highly doubtful that it qualifies for PD status on its own. In general, it's necessary to add the public-domain release for an image that doesn't obviously qualify for this status—if you're the photographer, it's polite to add an explicit release; if you're not, you'll probably have to obtain and append a written release from the photographer.

Also, I've put some notes at the Talk:Chevrolet Lumina APV page. The work you've done so far there is great, and I'd love to see these pages maintained well!

Thanks

--Milkmandan 04:00, 2005 Mar 28 (UTC)

Thanks for your quick response!

The biggest issue with having three different copies of the same information isn't space, it's consistency. Someone updating a factual inaccuracy, grammar mistake, or omission would have to check three different pages to keep things consistent. Over time, it's likely that the text in these three will stray away from each other and would likely be mutually inconsistent or even contradictory. Essentially, it places an extra burden on whoever updates the page next—and that's something we'd like to avoid.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Lumina+friends are really very closely related. With the exception of different sheetmetal and trim differences, the entire chassis and drivetrain is largely identical.

This type of situation occurs pretty frequently. There are three basic ways to handle it:

1. Build a page for the platform and place all the information specific to that platform (e.g., drivetrain) there. Carve off sections (or subpages, if there's enough information) for each of the models based off that platform. Each model section/page would contain information that applies only to that model.
2. Build a page for the dominant model in the series, and use subsections/pages to note where the other models differ. This is fairly standard around here, but subsections work far better than separate pages, for the reasons described above.
3. Name the page after the dominant model, but discuss all three models in parallel.

I'd probably go with the last one, here. I'm not an expert on these minivans, but it seems possible to write a coherent article addressing all three simultaneously. All three would work, and would solve the maintenance problem.

I'm trying to think of a counterexample, but can't really come up with a good one at the moment. Perhaps, the Chrysler 300M, which shares a ton of parts with the Dodge Intrepid, but which has had the engine turned so it's longitudinally. Or alternatively, the BMW Z3, which is mechanically very similar to the E36 BMW 3-Series, but which probably deserves its own page. None of these examples has a really well-developed set of Wikipedia pages yet, but I imagine they would be placed into separate pages with a note that they are, "mechanically strongly related to the ... "

Images are a tricky point. There aren't, as far as I can tell, any written standards on what constitutes a "reasonable" number of images. In the case of an automotive articles, I can see easily justifying one image for each distinct generation. Beyond that, there needs to be a reason in the text to support inserting a new image. This could be a discussion of an exceptional model, or perhaps a section noting the differences between two differently branded versions of the same chassis. The De Lorean DMC-12 is borderline, in my opinion, but it gets away with having so many images because there's more than enough text to back it all up. For example, the gallery of different hoods is fantastic, but the picture of the sun visor seems entirely unnecessary.

In the case of the Lumiva APV and others, it seems like there are far too many images to keep the text from getting cluttered. The shots of the concept van are great, but everything else seems a bit superfluous. If we do, for whatever reason, have an excess of exceedingly high-quality (and high resolution) shots, I'd say to append them at the end of the article with the gallery feature (see the De Lorean DMC-12#Hood styles section for the appropriate markup).

My experience has been that pages have images grouped on the right side to keep the text flow clean along the left. There's nothing wrong with breaking them into the center; in some cases (such as the Trans Sport concept images), it's necessary to keep them from getting pushed after the sidebar. It does tend to break up reading flow, however, and unless there's an overriding reason, the standard is to place them on the right.

Don't take anything I've said as law—I'm open to suggestions and welcome new ways of assembling articles. Having duplicate information seems like a very difficult thing to maintain, and it's something I'd like to see avoided.

Overall, however, your contributions have been fantastic so far. Both your prose and your editing seem above par, and it's pretty rare that we get new contributors who can develop such a well-developed article so quickly. Don't get discouraged—I'm looking forward to seeing great things from you in the future.

Thanks again!

--Milkmandan 17:13, 2005 Mar 28 (UTC)

Hello again Rawja- I agree that in certain cases, there's enough information to warrant splitting pages. I maintain that the organizational simplicity gained in grouping very similar topics is advantageous both in maintaining consistency as well as keeping the information immediately accessible, but in this case, I don't think there's a convincing argument either way. I'm more than willing to defer to you on these pages if you've got a plan in mind. Good luck! --Milkmandan 07:13, 2005 Apr 13 (UTC)

Although I concede that corporate press pictures are probably acceptable to Wikipedia under fair use, I feel that it is always preferrable to use a totally free (eg GFDL) picture if one is available. For this reason, I would ask that you not replace an existing free picture with a press department photo as in Cadillac SRX. Sure, the one you put in is better, but the other one was acceptable and free. I did not revert this since I suspect that you disagree. Perhaps we can take the discussion to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Automobiles? --SFoskett 15:07, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Please don't change the production years for the first-gen GM U-body vans and the Cadillac Cimarron. I realize there's no such thing as a model year 1981 Cimarron and such, but production for that model started that year. --ApolloBoy 01:36, 28 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-08-28T01:36:00.000Z","author":"ApolloBoy","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ApolloBoy-2005-08-28T01:36:00.000Z-Production_years","replies":[]}}-->

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Thanks for uploading Image:EuroTransSport96a.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

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Hello! As a Wikipedia:WikiProject Automobiles member, I just thought you might want to input your opinions on an important discussion we're currently having about whether articles regarding similar vehicles should be merged into one or split by brand. If you would like to comment or read further, please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles#Articles of Similar Vehicles. Thank you in advance for your thoughts and feedback. Airline 23:49, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-13T23:49:00.000Z","author":"Airline","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Airline-2006-02-13T23:49:00.000Z-Important_WikiProject_Automobiles_Discussion","replies":[]}}-->

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Thanks for uploading Image:Buick Skylark GS 1990.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

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If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. howcheng {chat} 21:38, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-08-10T21:38:00.000Z","author":"Howcheng","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Howcheng-2006-08-10T21:38:00.000Z-Unspecified_source_for_Image:Buick_Skylark_GS_1990.jpg","replies":[],"displayName":"howch"}}-->

Thanks for uploading Image:Buick Skylark GS 1992.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

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If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. howcheng {chat} 21:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-08-10T21:40:00.000Z","author":"Howcheng","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Howcheng-2006-08-10T21:40:00.000Z-Unspecified_source_for_Image:Buick_Skylark_GS_1992.jpg","replies":[],"displayName":"howch"}}-->

Hi Rawja, you were on the list of members at WikiProject Automobiles and we are introducing a new way of listing members, as the old list was becoming too long. Our new method involves having all of our members in a category.

To add yourself to the category just add the userbox to your user page by putting {{Wiki Auto Project}} where you want the userbox. Alternatively if you don't like the userbox you can add [[Category:WikiProject Automobiles members|Rawja]] to your userpage.

If you no longer wish to be a member of the project, simply don't add the userbox or category, there's no pressure. Thanks for your time, James086^{Talk | Contribs} 04:20, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-17T04:20:00.000Z","author":"James086","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-James086-2006-12-17T04:20:00.000Z-Wikiproject_Automobiles_Notification","replies":[]}}-->

Hi,
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Hello, Rawja. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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Hello, Rawja. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message","replies":[]}}-->