User talk:Kowal2701

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DCWC closing update

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Duplicate

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Hi, could you please fix up all the pages in Category:Pages using WikiProject banner shell with duplicate banner templates? If the page already has {{WikiProject Anthropology}} then you should just add |oral-tradition=yes rather than adding a duplicate banner. Thank you — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:46, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241006194600","author":"MSGJ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MSGJ-20241006194600-Duplicate","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241006195000-MSGJ-20241006194600"]}}-->

Yes, sorry, only realised halfway through Kowal2701 (talk) 19:50, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241006195000","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241006195000-MSGJ-20241006194600","replies":["c-MSGJ-20241007075500-Kowal2701-20241006195000"]}}-->
Thanks for sorting those. Would also be nice if the closing braces }} could be put on the same line, but that is much less important — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:55, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241007075500","author":"MSGJ","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-MSGJ-20241007075500-Kowal2701-20241006195000","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241007080700-MSGJ-20241007075500"]}}-->
Yeah idk why it’s separate, it might just be what AWB’s doing Kowal2701 (talk) 08:07, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241007080700","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241007080700-MSGJ-20241007075500","replies":[]}}-->
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ENIAC

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How is ENIAC part of Anthropology/oral tradition project? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 22:46, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241006224600","author":"Bubba73","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bubba73-20241006224600-ENIAC","replies":[]}}-->

Also Gemini 6A. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 01:25, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241007012500","author":"Bubba73","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bubba73-20241007012500-ENIAC","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241007073900-Bubba73-20241007012500"]}}-->

They’re not, I have no idea why they’re tagged. I was tagging articles that mentioned oral tradition or oral history. I’ll untag them Kowal2701 (talk) 07:39, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241007073900","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241007073900-Bubba73-20241007012500","replies":[]}}-->
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Talk:Turkey

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I removed the IP comment that wasn't allowed to participate in the discussion, and your reply to them about GS/AA was also removed. Hope you don't mind. Cheers KhndzorUtogh (talk) 14:07, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241016140700","author":"KhndzorUtogh","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KhndzorUtogh-20241016140700-Talk:Turkey","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241016140800-KhndzorUtogh-20241016140700"]}}-->

No that’s okay, no worries Kowal2701 (talk) 14:08, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241016140800","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241016140800-KhndzorUtogh-20241016140700","replies":[]}}-->
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Draftifying tips

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Hi! When you move an article from mainspace to draftspace, you shouldn't blank the redirect afterwards – it is better to tag it with {{db-r2}} instead so that an administrator can delete it. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 19:06, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241019190600","author":"Chaotic Enby","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Chaotic_Enby-20241019190600-Draftifying_tips","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241019201000-Chaotic_Enby-20241019190600"]}}-->

Thank you, sorry about that, won’t happen again Kowal2701 (talk) 20:10, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241019201000","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241019201000-Chaotic_Enby-20241019190600","replies":["c-Chaotic_Enby-20241019225000-Kowal2701-20241019201000"]}}-->
No worries, just advice to make it more practical! There's also User:MPGuy2824/MoveToDraft.js that can be useful if you don't want to do it by hand. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 22:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241019225000","author":"Chaotic Enby","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Chaotic_Enby-20241019225000-Kowal2701-20241019201000","replies":[]}}-->
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DYK nomination of Mwene Muji

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Invitation to participate in a research

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African History Discussion

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Hey, i figure it'll be easier to have one discussion rather than spamming random talk pages.

As you noticed, I just made some changes to the west africa sections on the africa page. You were right that there was a lot of weird writing and unsourced assertions. I'll keep trying to work on it as I go, and if I get time/can find full texts of the Obenga books will do Congo as well. Overall I think these sections are probably longer than they need to be. There's plenty of little detail that doesn't really belong in an overview article, which IMO should focus on large-scale changes like breakups of empires, religious spread, climate changes, major economic changes etc. Catjacket (talk) 20:22, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241030202200","author":"Catjacket","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Catjacket-20241030202200-African_History_Discussion","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241030203400-Catjacket-20241030202200","c-Kowal2701-20241030203600-Catjacket-20241030202200"]}}-->

Yeah these sections are being written for Draft:Postclassical Africa and Draft:Medieval Africa, once that's done we can trim and condense them down, they're just sitting in the History of Africa article for the time being, otherwise it'd be empty. Sorry, I just left a message at Talk:History of Africa Kowal2701 (talk) 20:34, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241030203400","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241030203400-Catjacket-20241030202200","replies":["c-Catjacket-20241030210700-Kowal2701-20241030203400","c-Catjacket-20241030210800-Kowal2701-20241030203400"]}}-->
Do we really need all these pages? A history of Africa, and a postclassical africa, and a medieval africa, and a west african history, etc.... I think we'd be better off focusing things into fewer articles. Easier to maintain and navigate, considering how hard it is to ensure well-sourced and appropriately contextualized and caveated writing for African history, where sources are so few and far between. Catjacket (talk) 21:07, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241030210700","author":"Catjacket","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Catjacket-20241030210700-Kowal2701-20241030203400","replies":[]}}-->
Should I copy the edits I just made to postclassical Africa? Catjacket (talk) 21:08, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241030210800","author":"Catjacket","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Catjacket-20241030210800-Kowal2701-20241030203400","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241030213500-Catjacket-20241030210800"]}}-->
Idk, for Asia there's History of Asia, History of East Asia, etc., but no time period articles. Also for Europe you don't have History of Western Europe etc. Maybe we should instead be focussing on making the regional history articles be general history, rather than just summaries of various countries' articles. Idk tho, I quite like writing in detail and then condensing that, and having time period articles mean that writing isn't wasted, but it might not be best for the encyclopedia. A good thing about having time period articles is that we can use them as a base to then copy relevant info over to the modern day country articles' history sections which are in dire need of writing Kowal2701 (talk) 21:35, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241030213500","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241030213500-Catjacket-20241030210800","replies":["c-Catjacket-20241031084700-Kowal2701-20241030213500"]}}-->
I agree that regional history articles (and period history articles) should be focused as much as possible on wide-view historical patterns rather than detais of the history of a certain state or people. Improving the quality of the existing pages should be the priority (especially given the endemic problem in West African history of unsourced assertions, poor sources, or seemingly reliable sources like Delafosse who actually just invent stuff). If you want to write in detail and then condense you should be writing on country pages and then transposing to the general pages, removing unnecessary detail. Doing it the other way would give us a bunch of country history articles that repeat the same thing and don't have the country-specific detail that people would be looking for when they go there. Catjacket (talk) 08:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241031084700","author":"Catjacket","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Catjacket-20241031084700-Kowal2701-20241030213500","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241031102100-Catjacket-20241031084700"]}}-->
Agreed, but I was trying to reperiodise and rewrite Ancient Africa, Medieval and early modern Africa, Colonial Africa, and Postcolonial Africa. I agree that for country articles it should be only the country specific bits, and ideally sources that cover the history of that country would be used. Only the bits in the present-day territories would be moved over to country articles, and then expanded on, for instance in Republic of Congo, the focus is on Kakongo, Ngoyo, Vungu, and Loango, rather than Kongo.
The regional history pages are generally quite poor imo, History of West Africa looks like it’s turned into West Africa, shouldn’t the cultural history section be the main focus of the article? Kowal2701 (talk) 10:21, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241031102100","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241031102100-Catjacket-20241031084700","replies":["c-Catjacket-20241101121500-Kowal2701-20241031102100"]}}-->
Yeah you're probably right, it's overcrowded. If you want to slim down History of West Africa, put something in that page's talk page. As long as there isn't pushback, then you could move all the non-history sections to the main West Africa page, similar to what I did for Mali Empire and History of the Mali Empire.
I think working to improve Ancient Africa etc. is a noble and productive mission to set for yourself. It's not one I'm particularly interested in undertaking tbh. I just don't think that we can look at Africa as a monolith in any of these periods, with the possible exception of the colonial period, and therefore those pages are subtly and unintentionally perpetuating the very dumb idea that Africa is one single place. My ideal world would be a condensed and efficient History of Africa article with very long and well-structured pages for the history of West, South, East Africa etc. The fewer pages there are, the easier it is to make sure each one is relatively up to date with constantly changing scholarship and free of bad/outdated/colonial sources. But I recognize that there is a demand for history of "Africa" as a unitary concept, so I'm not going to worry too much about it.
All that being said, if you would like help with specific sections, such as the West Africa work I did the other day, I'm happy to provide it. If these pages exist then they should be as high-quality as possible. Catjacket (talk) 12:15, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241101121500","author":"Catjacket","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Catjacket-20241101121500-Kowal2701-20241031102100","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241101210100-Catjacket-20241101121500"]}}-->
Agreed that the regional articles are more important, and continental history articles prior to 1800 seem anachronistic. Also pan-Africanism does sort of lend itself to the homogenous stereotype. I don't know the solution. Could it be to have History of West Africa until 1250, Medieval West Africa (ie. 1250-1800), History of North Africa until 1250, Medieval North Africa, and then have Early modern Africa (1800-1935/45) and Africa since 1935 or 1945. Ancient Africa would redirect to a disambiguation page, History of Africa until 1250. Idk that's probably too many articles. Kowal2701 (talk) 21:01, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241101210100","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241101210100-Catjacket-20241101121500","replies":["c-Catjacket-20241102132500-Kowal2701-20241101210100"]}}-->
That could be a valid solution, but you'd need a whole taskforce to put all that together. I'm not sure it's worth it. Catjacket (talk) 13:25, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241102132500","author":"Catjacket","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Catjacket-20241102132500-Kowal2701-20241101210100","replies":[]}}-->
Also see Talk:History of Africa#Periodisation, it's the best I've got thus far for a periodisation (with 1500 as an internal break in Medieval Africa) Kowal2701 (talk) 20:36, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241030203600","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241030203600-Catjacket-20241030202200","replies":[]}}-->
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Please do not blank my talk page without asking. Northern Moonlight 00:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241119005300","author":"Northern Moonlight","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Northern_Moonlight-20241119005300-Talk_page","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241119073200-Northern_Moonlight-20241119005300"]}}-->

Im really sorry about that, I just meant to blank the welcome message Kowal2701 (talk) 07:32, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241119073200","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241119073200-Northern_Moonlight-20241119005300","replies":[]}}-->
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Wikipedia Library

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Hello! Seeing your comment in Talk:Turkey, you should be able to access Wikipedia Library. Did you try doing the initial set up? Bogazicili (talk) 17:26, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212172600","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20241212172600-Wikipedia_Library","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241212173700-Bogazicili-20241212172600"]}}-->

Yeah I use the Wikipedia Library loads but some of the entries on Oxford Research Encyclopedia are locked Kowal2701 (talk) 17:37, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212173700","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241212173700-Bogazicili-20241212172600","replies":["c-Bogazicili-20241212174200-Kowal2701-20241212173700","c-Bogazicili-20241212174500-Kowal2701-20241212173700"]}}-->
Yeah you are right, I was just going to come back and say that myself. I thought it would be unlocked, but it isn't. Oxford Research Encyclopedias database seem very high quality actually. Bogazicili (talk) 17:42, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212174200","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20241212174200-Kowal2701-20241212173700","replies":[]}}-->
Actually, looks like there's a technical issue [1]. So access might be restored later. Bogazicili (talk) 17:45, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212174500","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20241212174500-Kowal2701-20241212173700","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241212180300-Bogazicili-20241212174500"]}}-->
Oh nice. Yeah they're so useful, the only publisher the Wikipedia Library is missing imo is Taylor and Francis books/Routledge. Countless times has it had the perfect and only source on a topic. It's got 200 upvotes at Suggest a collection so hopefully it gets added soon. Kowal2701 (talk) 18:03, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212180300","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241212180300-Bogazicili-20241212174500","replies":["c-Bogazicili-20241212182000-Kowal2701-20241212180300"]}}-->
They have good overview sources, I use Taylor and Francis/Routledge books often. Bogazicili (talk) 18:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212182000","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20241212182000-Kowal2701-20241212180300","replies":[]}}-->
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Concern regarding Draft:Oral tradition taskforce articles

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 22:06, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241227220600","author":"FireflyBot","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FireflyBot-20241227220600-Concern_regarding_Draft:Oral_tradition_taskforce_articles","replies":[]}}-->

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Thankyou

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Zimbabwean Barnstar of National Merit
For excellent work on Great Zimbabwe and related articles. Babakathy (talk) 14:44, 30 December 2024 (UTC)|}[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241230144400","author":"Babakathy","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Babakathy-20241230144400-Thankyou","replies":["c-Kowal2701-20241230144700-Babakathy-20241230144400"]}}-->
Thank you so much! Kowal2701 (talk) 14:47, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241230144700","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241230144700-Babakathy-20241230144400","replies":[]}}-->

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