Template talk:Reflist/Archive 18

This is an archive of past discussions about Template:Reflist. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Hello, if I try this:

lorem ipsum 1<ref>AAA</ref>
{{reflist}}

lorem ipsum 2<ref>BBB</ref>
{{reflist}}

I obtain:

lorem ipsum 1^[1]

1. ^ AAA

lorem ipsum 1^[2]

1. ^ AAA

Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{Reflist}} template or a <references/> tag; see the help page.

There are 2 errors:

• Of course, the error message at the end of the page
• 2nd reflist shows references of the 1st paragraph (similarly, if I add a 3rd paragraph, it still shows references of the 1st paragraph)

These errors don't occur if one uses only <references /> or no more than one {{Reflist}}.

I don't know if the issue is related to WP or MediaWiki, but we have the exact same at WP French. Any help would be very appreciated! Regards, Od1n (talk) 14:46, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you are even attempting to do that. That's not the purpose of this template, nor do I see this as useful. A page should only have one reference list, not one for every paragraph. If for some reason you need to separate references, use the |group= parameter. Can you give an example were this would be even considered? _Xeworlebi ^(talk) 15:08, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Same template, same parameters ⇒ parser cache, I guess. Best regards — Arkanosis ^✉ 15:12, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Xeworlebi, I encountered the issue with an huge archive page that contains many and unrelated articles portions, sample cases about templates, and so on. I agree an article should contain only one refs list and possibly groups, but WP doesn't contain only articles! Regards, Od1n (talk) 15:20, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Here's the relevant paragraph from the documentation.

If {{Reflist}} is used multiple times without a parameter, each instance will include all of the previously defined references. To force the parser to close previous references, each use of {{Reflist}} must be forced as a new instance by the use of any parameter. Even an undefined parameter such as {{Reflist|close=1}} will force the references to close.

Also, you can use the group= parameter in both references and reference lists to seperate them. — Edokter • Talk — 16:31, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Here is an interesting article on adding column support to IE.[1] ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 14:21, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Nice find! That script has some limitations though; it doesn't handle column-width given in em, and ignores inline styles (which is what we use). — Edokter (talk) — 16:05, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Thought I would see if we could use it. Looked neat htough. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 04:58, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

... now has CSS3 column goodness.[2][3] Did a bit of testing and it looks good. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 15:27, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

I have noticed that the Reflist|2 and Reflist|3 tags don't seem to work on my new Explorer 9 browser. The columns just come out as one long line - no matter what magnification level I put on the browser. They show up fine, though, on Mozilla Firefox 3.6.13 which I also run on the same computer. Has any one else noticed this problem? If so, do you have any suggestions? Should we contact Microsft developers about this? Thanks, John Hill (talk) 11:38, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Internet Explorer 9 still does not officially support CSS3 columns. You may certainly try to contact Microsoft about this, but I wouldn't get my hopes up on them adding support anytime soon. — Edokter (talk) — 12:24, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

IE9 was RTM on Monday. Looks like IE is now the only major browser that does not support multi-columns. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 04:05, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I've been experimenting with the "list-defined references" approach using the refs parameter. It greatly improves the readability of an article which has a lot of inline refs to be able to extract the full citations from the body of the article. My issue is with the error flagging. I want to be able to put extra citations in the list of references before they get used in the article. However, I then get an error message. Ideally it would be possible to turn this off while building up an article (e.g. by an extra parameter and value like errorcheck=false) and then turn it on at the end to check.
Why? Because otherwise you cannot edit just one section of an article without temporarily creating a page with an error in it. You have to edit the whole article so that you can in one edit add the named ref tag to the section and the citation to the list. This is very inconvenient with long articles – but these are just the ones that typically benefit from not having citations in the source text. Peter coxhead (talk) 11:15, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

This doesn't really have anything to do with this template, it's how "list-defined references" work. It might be possible to hide the error message with CSS, but it would still be there for users without CSS and the error tracking category would still be present on the page. Anomie⚔ 13:19, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok, the error-handling is not implemented in the template code, but it's implemented somewhere, so it must be possible to pass information to turn it off. Peter coxhead (talk) 01:52, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

You can park unused references by placing them in HTML comment markup. I usually open the section in question in one browser tab and the references section in another tab. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:29, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Sure, there are work-arounds. But they are just that, work-arounds. Peter coxhead (talk) 01:52, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

To answer your question above: The footnote system is implemented by the Cite software extension. When the software detects an error, it calls a MediaWiki interface page that has the error message. In this particular case, cite.php calls MediaWiki:Cite error references missing key. That page calls {{broken ref}} to show the message and add the category. It is technically possible to disable the message entirely or to class it so it shows only for those who desire it. This may not be a good idea, as it allows unused references to proliferate. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 04:15, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Would it be possible to make {{cite hansard}} compatible with this template? I'd like to use the NSW Hansard in the Netball article. The article has a bibliography and reference list. It uses {{refbegin|2}} and {{reflist|3}} and the author linkage doesn't appear to work. --LauraHale (talk) 23:31, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

It also uses a style different from the other templates in the article— {{cite web}}, {{cite book}} and {{cite journal}}, all part of what I refer to as Citation Style 2. If we could update {{cite hansard}} to use the meta-template {{citation/core}}, then we could fix these issues. Might be a bit complicated for this one, but I will look at it in a few days. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 04:24, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm encountering {{Reflist|30em}} more and more in articles, and it makes sense as a feature. But I'd like to suggest support for a less-specific version of that feature. As an alternative to 30em, add support for something like {{Reflist|multicol}} as an indication that an editor suggests multiple columns be used for references without specifying what that column width is. It could default to 30em of course, but would allow customization and future changes based on whatever criteria make sense. I realize there have been various earlier discussions (e.g. Template talk:Reflist/Archive 17) about how multiple columns are to be handled but at first glance I didn't find anyone making the suggestion I am making. 67.101.5.4 (talk) 00:10, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

If an editor wants to suggest columns, he can simply add them, or suggest them on the talk page of the article. I see no reason to add a special parameter for this. — Edokter (talk) — 09:45, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Well it avoids having to decide on a specific em width every time it's added to an article, and makes it easier to change across articles in future. I think I suggested this myself before. Rd232 ^talk 10:49, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

This sort of thing was tried a while back, and then reverted. The problem was that a value that gave 2 columns for people with normal-sized browser windows gave 5 columns for people with extremely wide screens, and a value that gave 2 columns for people with extremely wide screens gave no columns at all for people with normal-sized browser windows. Check the archives. Anomie⚔ 13:43, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

We should not force the number columns on our readers - {{Reflist|30em}} should allow the browser to automatically choose the number of columns based on the width of the web browse.Moxy (talk) 14:24, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I think you're missing the point: the idea is that {{Reflist|multicol}} would have exactly the same effect as {{Reflist|30em}}, assuming that the template was set up to interpret "multicol" as "30em". And if we ever wanted to do it differently, we'd only have to change the template. An additional parameter does no harm; if people want to hard-wire 30em or whatever, let them. Why not also let people say "multicol - let the Reflist template decide what that means"? Rd232 ^talk 14:33, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

No. I'm done with 'defaults'; it always generates complaints one way or the other. Why "30em"? why not "2", which is more prevelant? You get the idea. — Edokter (talk) — 15:16, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

And 4, which is appropriate for shortened footnotes. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 18:20, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

? OK, so if you didn't want the default multicolumn approach, you'd specify something specific. How is that an argument against having a default multicolumn? Rd232 ^talk 20:10, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but "30em" is specifying a precise width based on em (typography). I'm an editor who is not interested in controlling the reference list at the level of typography. If there are editors interested in that, fine, we've got support for ems. I do want to provide a hint as to what's appropriate for a particular article's references list, and I am interested in giving WP:SKIN customizers a way to do so. To partially quote Template: Reflist/doc#Columns on 30em's current purpose, the purpose of multicol or some similar keyword is to give editors the option of saying they want the "the number of columns [to be] based on the width of the web browser" without being in the business of determining the precise width to be used. As average screen-widths widen or as new categories of devices dominate (smartphones, tablets, 3D glasses, retinal implants, whatever), having a keyword separate from typography would be very useful. W.r.t. User:Gadget850's example of WP:CITESHORT, give me a keyword like multishort or harvard or whatever—that kind of references-specific semantics is useful for editors, but typesetting specifics should be something that editors can avoid. 67.101.6.52 (talk) 20:37, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I made that suggestion some time back— I think it was standard for long footnotes and short for shortened footnotes with classes so editors could customize. The discussion lost focus and died. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 14:41, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

{{editrequest}}

How about making a option of getting the references for a certain section? ~~EBE123~~ ^talk_Contribs 22:21, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

You need to be a bit more specific in your request. If you want to a seperate reflist in one section, you can already do so with the group parameter. — Edokter (talk) — 22:35, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

{{edit protected}} In Ref. 2, please change "nolta's to "Volta's , because it is an obvious misprint

Torrazzo (talk) 01:55, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't think you are talking about this template. Please go to the article's talk page or try to fix it yourself. —GFOLEY FOUR— 02:45, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi, could anybody help on the result of "references" (or in Javanese language :Cathetan Suku) as the result show in numbers and not in alphabeticall. As for sample, please see jv:Nopia. Cheers — Tjmoel  ^bicara 14:38, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I think you are referring to the backlink labels in the reference list— this is the default. See Help:Cite messages, but this still needs work to make it more explanatory. There are a number of MediaWiki interface pages that format different parts of a cite.php reference. If you copy these pages from en.Wikipedia, then the backlink will become a ^ and backlink labels will become alpha:

• MediaWiki:Cite references link one
• MediaWiki:Cite references link many
• MediaWiki:Cite references link many format

You need to propose this change and have an admin update these pages. You can leave the backlink an up arrow if you desire.---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:39, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Is it possible to combine multiple columns and groups? If it is possible, the documentation should explain how; if it is not, the documentation should say so. I tried this

{{reflist |3 |group="e"}}

and

{{reflist |15em |group="e"}}

but that didn't work so I'm using this workaround

<div style="{{column-width|15em}}"><references group="e"/></div>

jnestorius^(talk) 20:11, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Looks like you are referring to User:Jnestorius/Anglo-Irish Treaty Dáil vote. You need to remove the space after the 15em: {{reflist|15em|group="e"}}.

You also need to define the refeference onevote— you can see that error if you follow the instructions at {{broken ref}}.

Now to figure out why that breaks the template. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:26, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks; I've noted the bug in the documentation; delete it if you fix it :) jnestorius^(talk) 12:41, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

I see sometimes an asterisk in front of Reflist template (eg. [4] [5]). Should it be removed? -- Basilicofresco (msg) 23:04, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes. They serve no purpose other then adding an unnecessary bullet. — Edokter (talk) — 23:45, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Should we also remove for example asterisks like this one? -- Basilicofresco (msg) 22:11, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, just remove them. — Edokter (talk) — 22:36, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

I've never seen this before and it's not really a big deal. But by adding |30em to the reflist template here, a strange space appears before the publisher's name. With one reference, maybe this is a bug of some sort, but ... with one reference, it's really not a big deal either. Thought I'd bring it up anyway. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 02:43, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

If I recall, this always happens when you try to make a single reference span two columns. The solution is to just use a single column. The two column output is browser dependent, if I recall. So, some IE users will only see one column anyway. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 05:08, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Makes sense. In other words, there's really no reason to be splitting it into two columns anyway. Thanks! – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 06:04, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

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Please correct publisher to read:Lippincott 174.252.103.69 (talk) 23:33, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

I think you posted on the wrong page. This is the talk page for the Reflist template, not the article. — Edokter (talk) — 00:32, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

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The link for the Ossett History site within the Refrences area for the Ossett Wikipedia entry has changed from the old www.larkshill.org.uk address to http://www.ossett.net

Could someone update the link please since it is now protected.

Thanks!

80.177.215.10 (talk) 21:51, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

You need to post this on the article's talk page. — Edokter (talk) — 21:58, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi, to whom it may concern (I'm not more active in mediazilla: and don't know CSS3 tricks): Picking two columns with 2 or 30em unsurprisingly folds long references in more than one line. Sadly the folding can affect the last reference in the left column. Starting at the bottom of the left column this reference will end at the top of the right column. That's excessively ugly, is there a way to avoid it, or could somebody please submit it as "bug" for the experimental feature? –82.113.99.136 (talk) 09:29, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

The documentation used to note that columns could result in widows and orphans. I recall looking at this with no resolution. It is not a MediaWiki issue, it is in the CSS3 column layout. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:50, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

I just created MediaWiki:Cite link label group-upper-alpha, which can be used to create footnotes using upper-alpha characters (For use in articles like List of songs in Green Day: Rock Band where two non-reference footnote lists are needed, and which should use a similar style to one another). I was wondering if we could change, in this template

    | lower-alpha
    | lower-greek

to be

    | upper-alpha
    | lower-alpha
    | lower-greek

in order to properly support the ref group. I can make the change myself, but I just wanted to verify that it looked OK because this is such a high-risk template. Thanks! –Drilnoth (T/C) 16:38, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I see no problem with that. We might as well add upper-roman. — Edokter (talk) — 17:55, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Cite link label group-upper-roman would have to be set first for that, but thanks, I'll make that change. –Drilnoth (T/C) 18:04, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

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Graciela Rivera Zumchak obituary[6] Boricua1023 (talk) 00:12, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

This request is misplaced, please discuss on the article talk page. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 02:48, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

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The pape from Stevenson in the References is available for free online, so I recommend to link the reference to the pdf: http://mind.oxfordjournals.org/content/XLVII/187/331.full.pdf+html?sid=10ef24ad-5e2e-465c-ba9b-27f3caf7b52f

KlausHeine (talk) 20:36, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Not done: Please request the change on the talk page of the article in question - this is not the proper place for such a request. ^Avic_ennasis @ 21:18, 4 Av 5771 / 4 August 2011 (UTC)

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Hi, would it be possible to change a link in Reflist on a specific page please? The page is Situational judgement test and the link which needs to be changed is the first link in Notes section. The link doesn't work anymore and should be replaced to Situational Judgement Tests: Are they just measures of cognitive ability? Would you please change it? I'm new to Wikipedia and as I understand, the page can not be changed as it is a protected page. Thank you. Zuziw

Zuziw (talk) 09:38, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

• This is not the place to request edits to an article, please use the article talk page
• Situational judgement test is not protected— you can edit it yourself
• {{Reflist}} generates the list but does not define the references; See WP:Referencing for beginners
• The reference in question is in the lead section and has been updated

---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 09:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

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Please add article: "Content Strategist as Digital Curator" in A List Apart Journal, Dec 2009: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/content-strategist-as-digital-curator/ This article directly applies the principles of good content curation based on library and museum practice. It is directly appropriate to this topic. Thank you Erinscime (talk) 12:21, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Your request is misplaced. Please discuss this on the article talk page. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 15:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

All these edit requests seem to be coming from the "Submit an edit request" link generated by MediaWiki:Protectedpagetext, although how people find their way to edit this template but don't know enough to realize that requesting an edit here instead of at the article's talk page is wrong, I have no idea.

I'm really getting tempted to request an edit to MediaWiki:Protectedpagetext to display a different message for this template's edit page. Would anyone else support this? Anomie⚔ 17:11, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

If we do decide to go ahead with the above, we'd need an appropriate message to be displayed. Here's a start, feel free to edit it. Anomie⚔ 17:11, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

 Done ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 11:10, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood my proposal. I was proposing replacing the unhelpful-for-this-template information displayed at [7] for non-admins. One way to accomplish that would be to make an edit something like this to MediaWiki:Protectedpagetext, set up a title blacklist entry for "Template:Protectionnotices" like we have for "Template:Editnotices", and then put the above message at Template:Protectionnotices/Page/Template:Reflist. There are other ways it could be done. Anomie⚔ 13:57, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Ah, my misunderstanding. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:59, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Same issues at Help talk:Section. Perhaps we should start a centralized discussion on this as it seems to affect a number of pages. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 14:30, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

WP:VPR#Add the ability to override the default "this page is protected" edit notice. Please advertise it anywhere else that may have this problem. Anomie⚔ 15:44, 30 August 2011 (UTC)