Talk:Ynglism

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Pagan

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Term "Pagan" derives from Latin and means "rural, primitive". According to the Ynglists, they aren't any "rural, primitive" believers but Henotheists(Rodnovery); terms such as: Rod (genus; root), Prav ("righteous"), Yav (visible, material world), Slav (glorious) can not be considered as the invention of the "old" believers (christians who adopted many traditions, words from the Yezichniky (="pagans"( old believers, pre-Christian priests; the word Yezik (Yezeek)means "language", so literally as "teachers".

Sorry to write it here; as i couldn't find right place to write. Please look at the similarity between Bhrahmi Script & Ancient Salvic script, they look so similar. This may help to decipher Salvic text in future.

Brahmi Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmi_script

139.5.242.47 (talk) 22:12, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-04-28T22:12:00.000Z","author":"139.5.242.47","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-139.5.242.47-2020-04-28T22:12:00.000Z-Pagan","replies":[]}}-->

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Do I need to re-write the page?

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I'd like to ask you not to cancel my edits, as I do not violate any of the rules, but correcting the page as if from the viewpoint of the adepts of Ynglism, as I am too. If it was readed, I'm asking to discuss my changes here before anything. I JluC I (talk) 22:45, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-08-12T22:45:00.000Z","author":"I JluC I","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-I_JluC_I-2018-08-12T22:45:00.000Z-Do_I_need_to_re-write_the_page?","replies":[]}}-->

Propose to rename the article to "Inglyism". I JluC I (talk) 10:13, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-11-25T10:13:00.000Z","author":"I JluC I","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-I_JluC_I-2018-11-25T10:13:00.000Z-Do_I_need_to_re-write_the_page?","replies":["c-Aethelwolf_Emsworth-2019-08-07T14:51:00.000Z-I_JluC_I-2018-11-25T10:13:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've reverted your edits because the purpose of Wikipedia is not to "correct the page as if from the viewpoint of the adepts of Ynglism". You have added to the article a lot of unreferenced and badly translated information (from Russian, I suppose), and this is not the place for it.--Aethelwolf Emsworth (talk) 14:51, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-07T14:51:00.000Z","author":"Aethelwolf Emsworth","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aethelwolf_Emsworth-2019-08-07T14:51:00.000Z-I_JluC_I-2018-11-25T10:13:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Terminology

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The lede says

Members call themselves simply "Orthodox Old Believers", "Ynglings" seldom "Ynglists".

If I read this correctly, it says that "Yngling" is preferred over "Ynglist," but there are 47 instances of "Ynglist" and only eight of "Yngling." Which is the more common / preferred?

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 15:14, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-22T15:14:00.000Z","author":"Septegram","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Septegram-2019-08-22T15:14:00.000Z-Terminology","replies":[]}}-->

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Article downplays far-right mystical aspects of Ynglism

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Both English and Russian academic sources consistently describe Ynglism as a far-right Russian ultranationalist movement that draws on Ariosophy and other far-right esoteric myths such as Hyperborea and ancient aliens; which continually pushes racist movements such as anti-Semitism.

"Some believers draw on texts of dubious origin, including... the xenophobic, Ariosophism-influenced writings on Aleksandr Khinevich, the leader of the sect of Rodnovery known as Ynglism." - [Historical Dictionary of the Russian Federation]

"The Inglings[sic] were conservatives, racists and nationalists" - [Paganism, Traditionalism, Nationalism: Narratives of Russian Rodnoverie]

The article devotes extremely little time to this dimension of Ynglism. Though, given the paucity of English language sources on Ynglism, I would recommend translating relevant sections from the Russian Wikipedia version. Midnight-Blue766 (talk) 21:53, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-12-08T21:53:00.000Z","author":"Midnight-Blue766","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Midnight-Blue766-2021-12-08T21:53:00.000Z-Article_downplays_far-right_mystical_aspects_of_Ynglism","replies":["c-\u00c6o-2022-02-26T22:19:00.000Z-Midnight-Blue766-2021-12-08T21:53:00.000Z"]}}-->

The Ariosophical influences in Ynglism are listed among the influences from other traditions in the section titled "Characteristics" ("...Scholars have identified influences from Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Helena Blavatsky's Theosophy, and German Ariosophy within Ynglism..."), while the right-wing conservative, racial and even eugenic ideas promoted by the movement are well explaned throughout the article, especially in the sections titled "Education and beneficial offspring" and "Sociology" ("...the Ynglist Church had close ties with the Omsk regional branch of the far-right..."; "...accused... for its use of swastika-like religious symbolism and for extreme nationalism... and its teachings about interracial mixing...").--Æo (talk) 22:19, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-02-26T22:19:00.000Z","author":"\u00c6o","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-\u00c6o-2022-02-26T22:19:00.000Z-Midnight-Blue766-2021-12-08T21:53:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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NPOV

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This article feels like it's promoting ynglism Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 14:09, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230329140900","author":"Immanuelle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Immanuelle-20230329140900-NPOV","replies":["c-Immanuelle-20230330143300-Immanuelle-20230329140900"]}}-->

Here in particular

The Ynglists reject official historical narrative, which they believe to be manipulated, and argue that it should be replaced with history as told in their Slavo-Aryan Vedas or with koshchunosloviya, that is history based on Russian folk tales (koshchuny). They believe that "Yngling", a name that identifies the earliest royal dynasties of Scandinavia, means "offspring of Yngly", and that the historical Ynglings migrated to Scandinavia from the region of Omsk, which was a spiritual centre of the early Indo-Europeans or Aryans. They hold that the Saga ob Ynglingakh, their Russian version of the Scandinavian Ynglinga saga (itself composed by Snorri Sturluson on the basis of an older Ynglingatal), proves their ideas about the origins of the Ynglings in Omsk, and that the Scandinavian Eddas are ultimately a more recent, western European and Latinised version of their own sacred books, the Slavo-Aryan Vedas. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 14:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230330143300","author":"Immanuelle","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Immanuelle-20230330143300-Immanuelle-20230329140900","replies":["c-\u00c6o-20230406164000-Immanuelle-20230330143300"]}}-->

I don't see any NPOV language in the cited text. WP:NPOV says that articles must represent the topic fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias. In the cited text there is neither supporting nor judgmental depreciating language used to describe the beliefs of the Ynglists, and the subject of the sentences is always specified: The Ynglists reject... They believe... They hold.... Æo (talk) 16:40, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230406164000","author":"\u00c6o","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-\u00c6o-20230406164000-Immanuelle-20230330143300","replies":["c-2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:77FB-20231016222000-\u00c6o-20230406164000"]}}-->

I do think there should be more clarification about what statements are Ynglist beliefs and which represent scholarly consensus. For example, the article seems to accept that the “Slavic-Aryan Vedas” really are as old as the Ynglists claim they are, but we have only their word to back it up. Did the supposed golden plates ever actually exist? (The fact that they were supposedly melted down seems pretty iffy). Maybe Khinevich just wrote them himself.

Here in the USA we have a religion called Mormonism which (despite retaining some ties to Christianity, unlike Ynglism) has a rather similar origin story, lost golden plates and all. Scholars typically don’t accept the Mormons’ own narratives regarding their origin of their beliefs (or their idiosyncratic teachings about pre-Columbian history); one would think Ynglists would have been subjected to similar scrutiny. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:77FB (talk) 22:20, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20231016222000","author":"2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:77FB","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:77FB-20231016222000-\u00c6o-20230406164000","replies":[]}}-->