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'Climate Science is settled'

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'Climate Science is settled' does not equal 'We may not have all the answers to what is occurring' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.228.219 (talk) 08:32, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T08:32:00.000Z","author":"58.168.228.219","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-58.168.228.219-2011-01-25T08:32:00.000Z-'Climate_Science_is_settled'","replies":[]}}-->

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'Climate Change Denial'

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I agree, it's an offensive term. Have it removed from WikiPedia and it will no longer be referenced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.170.208.132 (talk) 11:08, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T11:08:00.000Z","author":"58.170.208.132","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-58.170.208.132-2011-01-25T11:08:00.000Z-'Climate_Change_Denial'","replies":["c-220.101.28.25-2011-01-25T12:33:00.000Z-58.170.208.132-2011-01-25T11:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

Please all editors remember wp:3RR policy about edit warring. - 220.101 talk^\Contribs 12:33, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T12:33:00.000Z","author":"220.101.28.25","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-220.101.28.25-2011-01-25T12:33:00.000Z-58.170.208.132-2011-01-25T11:08:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"220.101"}}-->

all editors please remember if you disagree with content, it is not by that nature alone 'vandalism'. Changes made with no explanation should not override previous content. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.59.114 (talk) 12:56, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T12:56:00.000Z","author":"58.165.59.114","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-58.165.59.114-2011-01-25T12:56:00.000Z-'Climate_Change_Denial'","replies":[]}}-->

So let me get this right MoonDyne, you remove the factual information and then locked it down. Care to explain how that works? I will lodge a complaint against you. You side with the guys deleting content with no explanation. Shame. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.195.77.102 (talk) 13:39, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T13:39:00.000Z","author":"49.195.77.102","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-49.195.77.102-2011-01-25T13:39:00.000Z-'Climate_Change_Denial'","replies":["c-Moondyne-2011-01-25T13:45:00.000Z-49.195.77.102-2011-01-25T13:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

Feel free to lodge a complaint. In the meantime, if you have any suggestions to improve the article according to Wikipedia policy, post a note here and an admin or a registered user will consider it for inclusion. –Moondyne 13:45, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T13:45:00.000Z","author":"Moondyne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Moondyne-2011-01-25T13:45:00.000Z-49.195.77.102-2011-01-25T13:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Excellent work MoonDyne! The article now no longer actually represents his opinion or reality! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mish 130 (talk • contribs) 14:45, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T14:45:00.000Z","author":"Mish 130","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mish_130-2011-01-25T14:45:00.000Z-'Climate_Change_Denial'","replies":[]}}-->

Hi MoonDyne, I have one. Taking the lead from previous comments I offer the following. Climate Denialism is defined by Wikipedia as "Climate change denial is a term used to describe organized attempts to downplay, deny or dismiss the scientific consensus on the extent of global warming, its significance". As the CSIRO head, would you agree that when he made his statement, he knew how that would be taken? As such it's valid to use the term. In fact it is news worthy. Great that it is included.

Why can he not be cited as such? Also I am not sure why you locked the topic. It appears from the history that valid statements were made and many users were deleting text. Why did you side with the 'deleting' side, and not with the side that had provided valid, verified information? It appears you've deleted their content?. Do you have any valid reason to discount those statements? Looking at the previous state of the article the source was Australian state owned media. I'd have thought that whilst government owned, it was valid? No? I think you've focused on his latest award and not his greater role. He is the head of the CSIRO, and a Carbon Tax is on the Australian national agenda. This makes his statements and the interpretation of them very important.

I ask again, why did you delete reference to them? Why did you delete reference to the fact that his statements are considered those of a 'climate change denier' in the current climate (pun not intended).

I understand you probably got upset with the multiple reversions, however the topic is important enough that it should be left online. Whilst I wouldn't say a complaint is warrented, I'd say that you should reconsider and open things back up.

Kind Regards, Mish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mish 130 (talk • contribs) 14:12, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T14:12:00.000Z","author":"Mish 130","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mish_130-2011-01-25T14:12:00.000Z-'Climate_Change_Denial'","replies":["c-Moondyne-2011-01-25T14:53:00.000Z-Mish_130-2011-01-25T14:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

How on earth would I or anyone know what he meant to say? All we can do is report the facts of what he did say according to reliable sources in a neutral way. To describe him as a 'climate change denier' is stretching it based on the sources we have at hand. Can you provide a reliable source? Otherwise, that'd be original research and is expressly not allowed. Its obvious that some sort of organised campaign to denigrate the man is at play here and I will not be a party to that. Refer WP:BLP policy. –Moondyne 14:53, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T14:53:00.000Z","author":"Moondyne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Moondyne-2011-01-25T14:53:00.000Z-Mish_130-2011-01-25T14:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

You've completely interpreted what he said in your own regard. You've destroyed the article. Shame. The fact that you will take a statement and then ignore another wiki entry that clearly interprets it is disgraceful. Science is settled != we don't know everything. You ignore tha. I can only presume you have no logical education. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mish 130 (talk • contribs) 15:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T15:02:00.000Z","author":"Mish 130","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mish_130-2011-01-25T15:02:00.000Z-'Climate_Change_Denial'","replies":["c-Atmoz-2011-01-25T14:57:00.000Z-Mish_130-2011-01-25T15:02:00.000Z"]}}-->

For unregistered and new editor accounts: if you wish to make an edit to the page, you can suggest an edit using that link. Be sure to make it specific and include a reference that specifically verifies the text you wish to add. For example: add "X newspaper has said that Simon McKeon was ____.<ref>Name of website</ref>" Hope that helps, and happy editing. -Atmoz (talk) 14:57, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T14:57:00.000Z","author":"Atmoz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Atmoz-2011-01-25T14:57:00.000Z-Mish_130-2011-01-25T15:02:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bilby-2011-01-25T16:53:00.000Z-Atmoz-2011-01-25T14:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

Just to comment on the above discussion, I'm not clear how to get "climate change denier" from the comments in the ABC article, and I think that it is at best a matter of personal interpretation, rather than something clear in what he said. My reading of it was that he was arguing that even if you believe that the science is incomplete, and even if you believe that we haven't worked out the best way of preventing climate change, we should still act to stop it now because of the potential risk of not doing so. Importantly, while I don't think that argument could be presented by someone who strongly denies that climate change is happening, it could easily be presented by someone who strongly believes that it is occurring.

I also noticed an article in The Age in which McKeon speaks of his "own personal experience" with climate change, where he certainly seems to be coming across as someone who believes climate change is real.

Thus I think we are going to need to rely on more than personal interpretations of the ABC article to claim he is denying climate change, and I haven't been able to find anything that convincingly shows that he does. Thus I agree fully with Moondyne on the need for very clear sources before suggesting that he is a climate change denier. - Bilby (talk) 16:53, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-01-25T16:53:00.000Z","author":"Bilby","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bilby-2011-01-25T16:53:00.000Z-Atmoz-2011-01-25T14:57:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->