So, back to the lede... I propose the following changes (Changes in Bold), if you are in opposition I'd be very thankful if alternatives/suggestions were made, as the lede clearly needs improving:
Quillette is an online magazine founded by Australian journalist Claire Lehmann. The publication has a primary focus on science, technology, news, culture, and politics. The magazine also publishes two podcasts including the eponymous podcast Quilette and Wrongspeak. Its editorial line is generally conservative, right-wing and is associated with the "intellectual dark web". In 2019 Quillette ran an editorial based on a fake study and later that same year published a hoax.
Quillette is an online magazine founded by Australian journalist Claire Lehmann. The publication has a primary focus on science, technology, news, culture, and politics. The magazine also publishes two podcasts including the eponymous podcast Quilette and Wrongspeak. Its editorial line is generally conservative, right-wing and is associated with the "intellectual dark web".
In 2019 Quillette ran an editorial based on a fake study and later that same year published a hoax.
Citations for suggested improvements to lede as follows:
https://quillette.com/category/podcast/ https://quillette.com/2018/05/14/wrongspeak/
https://www.salon.com/2019/08/28/right-wing-journalist-andy-ngo-outed-video-shows-him-hanging-out-with-far-right-hate-group/ https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/alt-right-antifa-death-threats-doxxing-quillette-a8966176.html https://www.villagevoice.com/2018/05/14/conservatives-cheer-the-latest-right-wing-supergroup-the-intellectual-dark-web/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/quillette-ben-shapiro-and-the-myth-of-conservative-facts https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/7/3/20677645/antifa-portland-andy-ngo-proud-boys https://www.cjr.org/analysis/quillette-antifa-journalist-smear-campaign.php https://www.thenation.com/article/quillette-fascist-creep/
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/quillette-antifa-journalist-smear-campaign.php https://arcdigital.media/antifa-quillette-and-media-bias-a6fa7652d38a https://newrepublic.com/article/154205/quillettes-antifa-journalists-list-couldve-gotten-killed https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/alt-right-antifa-death-threats-doxxing-quillette-a8966176.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/alt-right-antifa-death-threats-doxxing-quillette-a8966176.html https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/08/archie-carter-quillette-dsa https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/quillette-dsa-and-hoax-wasnt
Obviously open to suggestions, these are just my thoughts on how to improve the lede. Let me know what you think. I believe the hoax and the fabrication are relevant as they bring the editorial standards of this publication into question. Bacondrum (talk) 00:17, 4 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-04T00:17:00.000Z","author":"Bacondrum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bacondrum-2020-01-04T00:17:00.000Z-Back_to_improving_the_lede","replies":["c-Springee-2020-01-04T02:02:00.000Z-Bacondrum-2020-01-04T00:17:00.000Z","c-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-04T02:33:00.000Z-Bacondrum-2020-01-04T00:17:00.000Z"]}}-->
Quillette is an online magazine founded by Australian journalist Claire Lehmann. The publication has a primary focus on science, technology, news, culture, and politics. The magazine also publishes two podcasts including the eponymous podcast Quilette and Wrongspeak. Its editorial line is generally Libertarian and is associated with the "intellectual dark web". Quillette's website was temporarily shut down by a DDoS attack following publication of a controversial memo authored by James Damore entitled Google's Ideological Echo Chamber
Quillette is an online magazine founded by Australian journalist Claire Lehmann. The publication has a primary focus on science, technology, news, culture, and politics. The magazine also publishes two podcasts including the eponymous podcast Quilette and Wrongspeak. Its editorial line is generally Libertarian and is associated with the "intellectual dark web".
Quillette's website was temporarily shut down by a DDoS attack following publication of a controversial memo authored by James Damore entitled Google's Ideological Echo Chamber
I'm interested in feedback from uninvolved editors. There's been some inconclusive discussion here about the use of a reliable source, The Nation in this article. The Author Donna Minkowitz is a respected journalist and writer. So, is The Nation and this article in particular a reliable source for this claim:
Quillette has repeatedly published pseudo-scientific claims that black people are Intellectually and morally inferior to white people. a number of contributors are proponents of theHuman Biodiversity Movement (HBD), including Vdare blogger Steve Sailer, Ben Winegard, Bo Winegard, Brian Boutwell, and John Paul Wright.
Thanks. Bacondrum (talk) 02:06, 8 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-08T02:06:00.000Z","author":"Bacondrum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bacondrum-2020-01-08T02:06:00.000Z-RFC_The_Nation","replies":["c-Bacondrum-2020-01-08T02:06:00.000Z-Bacondrum-2020-01-08T02:06:00.000Z"]}}-->
Why is Politico deemed by editors here a RS, but The Nation not so? The Nation is the older and more respected of the two, it's listed as a RS here with a similar caveat to Politico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#The_Nation If The Nation analysis is not seen as reliable in this context then surely logic demands that the same applies to the politico editorial and almost every other source cited in the article as the citations are almost exclusively op-eds/analysis/opinion. Bacondrum (talk) 23:49, 7 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-07T23:49:00.000Z","author":"Bacondrum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bacondrum-2020-01-07T23:49:00.000Z-Politico_vs_The_Nation","replies":["c-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-08T00:27:00.000Z-Bacondrum-2020-01-07T23:49:00.000Z"]}}-->
I am finding the obfuscation going on in this discussion rather annoying. The piece in The Nation is not "opinion from first to last" - it offers incisive, evidence-based analysis by an award-winning journalist, as one would expect from the publication and its reputation. A piece of analysis doesn't become "an attack article" just because a couple of editors DONTLIKEIT. Newimpartial (talk) 02:36, 8 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-08T02:36:00.000Z","author":"Newimpartial","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Newimpartial-2020-01-08T02:36:00.000Z-Politico_vs_The_Nation","replies":["c-Bacondrum-2020-01-08T02:57:00.000Z-Newimpartial-2020-01-08T02:36:00.000Z"]}}-->
I propose we add this to the article: Quillette has repeatedly published pseudo-scientific claims that black people are Intellectually and morally inferior to white people. a number of contributors are proponents of theHuman Biodiversity Movement (HBD), including Vdare blogger Steve Sailer, Ben Winegard, Bo Winegard, Brian Boutwell, and John Paul Wright.
Ref: https://www.thenation.com/article/quillette-fascist-creep/
It's no small deal that these views have been published repeatedly. I confirmed the claims by simply typing the authors names and quillette into google search. Easily verifiable facts from a respected masthead with a reputation for factual reporting and quality editorial oversight. Bacondrum (talk) 00:15, 7 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-07T00:15:00.000Z","author":"Bacondrum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bacondrum-2020-01-07T00:15:00.000Z-Human_Bio-diversity","replies":["c-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-07T00:21:00.000Z-Bacondrum-2020-01-07T00:15:00.000Z"]}}-->
https://quillette.com/author/john-paul-wright/ https://quillette.com/author/brian-boutwell/ https://quillette.com/author/bo-winegard/ https://quillette.com/author/bo-winegard-ben-winegard-and-brian-boutwell/ https://quillette.com/author/bo-winegard-and-ben-winegard/
The Minkowitz article was discussed less than a month ago [[1]]. With a number of editors weighing in there was no consensus on using it even as an op-ed source. The recent edit added content from that same disputed source in Wiki voice. Per NOCON based on the discussion above this article shouldn't be used for any claim of fact and probably not even as an opinion. Springee (talk) 01:56, 7 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-07T01:56:00.000Z","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Springee-2020-01-07T01:56:00.000Z-Human_Bio-diversity","replies":["c-Bacondrum-2020-01-07T07:01:00.000Z-Springee-2020-01-07T01:56:00.000Z"]}}-->
Bacondrum, a single, inflammatory op ed is not something that should have its own section. While there is consensus that The Nation can be a RS for opinion, Weight still applies. Springee (talk) 23:54, 9 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-09T23:54:00.000Z","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Springee-2020-01-09T23:54:00.000Z-Human_Bio-diversity","replies":["c-Bacondrum-2020-01-09T23:59:00.000Z-Springee-2020-01-09T23:54:00.000Z"]}}-->
I've undone the addition of this material pending resolution as to what should be added. Currently there is consensus that the article from The Nation passes WP:V. Where and how much weight still needs to be established. Unless other sources are concerned about the same topic I propose this material is added to the controversy section as one or two lines. The listing of every author is UNDUE in this case. Springee (talk) 00:38, 10 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-10T00:38:00.000Z","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Springee-2020-01-10T00:38:00.000Z-10_Jan_edits","replies":["c-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-10T00:44:00.000Z-Springee-2020-01-10T00:38:00.000Z"]}}-->
So, the lede is still missing something according to guideline WP:LEAD "The lead should stand on its own as a concise overview of the article's topic. It should identify the topic (tick, the topic is Quillette), establish context (tick, it's an Australian libertarian publication), explain why the topic is notable (Not done), and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies (Not done)" So, why is the topic notable? and what prominent controversies? Notability and controversies need to be included in the lede as per guidelines Bacondrum (talk) 00:33, 5 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-05T00:33:00.000Z","author":"Bacondrum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bacondrum-2020-01-05T00:33:00.000Z-Further_the_lede","replies":["c-Bacondrum-2020-01-05T00:33:00.000Z-Bacondrum-2020-01-05T00:33:00.000Z"]}}-->
So, I'd like to continue discussing the lede with anyone else interested in expanding it to include prominent controversies, especially seeing as these controversies are what make it notable. Bacondrum (talk) 22:58, 5 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-05T22:58:00.000Z","author":"Bacondrum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bacondrum-2020-01-05T22:58:00.000Z-Further_the_lede","replies":["c-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-05T23:13:00.000Z-Bacondrum-2020-01-05T22:58:00.000Z","c-Springee-2020-01-06T01:47:00.000Z-Bacondrum-2020-01-05T22:58:00.000Z"]}}-->
it is the site’s heterodox articles about politics, culture and the academy that have attracted broader attention
pop psychologist Jordan Peterson, evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins, psychology professors Steven Pinker of Harvard and Jonathan Haidt of New York University, and columnists like David Brooks, Meghan Daum and Andrew Sullivan
Quillette was originally founded to focus on "heterodox" opinions on scientific topics, but has since attracted broader attention--in the form of both praise and criticism--as a result of controversial articles relating to politics and culture
Okay, thanks for the feedback all. I agree the list of notables that endorse Quillette should not be included. I felt that way from the outset but endeavored to include some in the spirit of compromise, but seeing there is general opposition maybe we just leave it out? Hows about this for a proposed second para:
If you have the time I'd appreciate suggestions for improvements. Let me know what you think needs to be included/omitted/reworded. Best regards. (talk) 00:09, 7 January 2020
Here's a potentially helpful profile in CHE. (Sorry, but it's behind a paywall.) Here are some useful quotes, though you should read the whole thing:
It’s been praised by the likes of Sam Harris, Cass Sunstein, and Christina Hoff Sommers...
Founded in 2015 by Claire Lehmann, an Australian writer and former graduate student in psychology, Quillette initially maintained a more straightforwardly scientific focus but later morphed into a vehicle for a distinctive brand of cultural critique. Its three most popular articles as of this writing are a story on a scholar drummed out of the University of Cambridge for writing about race and IQ, a think piece on the decline of elites, and an essay headlined "How Anti-Humanism Conquered the Left."
The author seems to agree that the site is notable in part by praise it has received from these people, but lists different people. (Slate also has a still different list: "Jordan Peterson, Steven Pinker, and Sam Harris.") The author is also critical of Quillette for sometimes being predictable both in terms of topics covered and positions taken on those topics, but states that "more recently" (this was written May 2019) Quillette has begun to publish pieces that are critical of some of the figures that are most associated with them: Dave Rubin, Jordan Peterson, and so on. It's an even-handed piece, it seems to me, and the information about "most popular articles" should help to identify the most notable controversies. I think that this source together with the Politico source should guide us in our approach. And, on reflection, I think these sources both support something like the language I wrote before: the site started as science-focused, but moved into politics and culture, which gained it more notoriety becuase of the sorts of pieces mentioned in this CHE article. This, together with praise and criticism from various prominent people (and on social media) have led to a higher profile. Shinealittlelight (talk) 01:58, 7 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-07T01:58:00.000Z","author":"Shinealittlelight","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-07T01:58:00.000Z-Further_the_lede","replies":[]}}-->
Also: this Slate piece profiling the site has a different take: this author hardly mentions race in his discussion, but seems to think that Quillette is focused on self-pity, and says nothing about "pseudoscience". Three profiles from left-leaning RS, none of which identify "racist pseudoscience" as notable about Quillette. Shinealittlelight (talk) 02:33, 7 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-07T02:33:00.000Z","author":"Shinealittlelight","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-07T02:33:00.000Z-Further_the_lede","replies":["c-Bacondrum-2020-01-07T22:33:00.000Z-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-07T02:33:00.000Z"]}}-->
And a retraction by Quillette https://quillette.com/2019/08/08/retraction-notice/. As any editor or journo will tell you, getting it this wrong is a big deal, something other people in the field pay a lot of attention to. You can't single out three articles because you like what they say about the subject (CHE, Politico, and SMH). Same for the Antifa falshoods (took all of 5 seconds to google search these too, I'm sure there's plenty more):
And this list excludes the far-right articles that republished the claims.
So given there's plenty of coverage of both and publishing false claims is more than a bit of a big deal in journalism (enough to get Quillette all but depreciated as a source here) how about this for a compromise:
Bacondrum (talk) 02:43, 8 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-08T02:43:00.000Z","author":"Bacondrum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bacondrum-2020-01-08T02:43:00.000Z-Further_the_lede","replies":[]}}-->
Oh, is that how we're doing it? I guess we also need to add the "Sokal squared" thing to the body and the lead as well, then, since five seconds on that also gives a stack of sources. Do you therefore think this should also be added to the body and lead? Do you see that there's a concern about cherry picking what we'll put in the lead? There's too much coverage of too many different things, so we need a way to objectively arrive at an idea aobut which ones are most notable. If you don't like my idea, then propose another. But a big wall of links is not helpful, since I could do the same thing for controversies related to free speech, the Hill affair, the Sokal squared thing, and so on. Shinealittlelight (talk) 03:24, 8 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-08T03:24:00.000Z","author":"Shinealittlelight","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-08T03:24:00.000Z-Further_the_lede","replies":["c-Bacondrum-2020-01-08T03:38:00.000Z-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-08T03:24:00.000Z"]}}-->
It published multiple pieces by and about James Damore, author of the infamous "Google memo" that questioned the company’s diversity policies, and came down squarely on the side of the so-called grievance-studies hoax, in which three scholars punked humanities journals by submitting creative nonsense cloaked in social-justice buzzwords.
It was also a big story for Quillette, the online magazine Lehmann runs and the unofficial digest of the IDW. Lehmann had known about the prank before the Wall Street Journal broke the news, and she had some time to formulate a response that would fan the flames. “I wanted the public to be aware that there are many people within the academy who are fed up with grievance studies scholarship,” says Lehmann, who went on to publish responses from five like-minded academics—one of whom called the incident “a Cultural Revolution in our own backyard.”
would fan the flames
As per WP:LEAD: "The lead should stand on its own as a concise overview of the article's topic. It should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies."
I've made a number of proposals relating to the inclusion of "prominent controversies" (DSA hoax, Google memo and Antifa claims) in the lede, but they've been repeatedly contested. So, which prominent controversies should we include in the lede if not the ones I've already suggested? Bacondrum (talk) 04:57, 10 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-10T04:57:00.000Z","author":"Bacondrum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bacondrum-2020-01-10T04:57:00.000Z-Prominant_controversies","replies":["c-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-10T14:34:00.000Z-Bacondrum-2020-01-10T04:57:00.000Z"]}}-->
There was some back and forth around the material in this edit [[6]]. At issue was some of the words used when describing the Lenihan material and the DSA Is Doomed content. @Newimpartial: justified the restoration by stating this was the stable version. I don't agree with that claim as this version of the text seems to be have been introduced just yesterday. I would suggest editors cite the sources that support the extra embellishing terms restored in this edit. My feeling is currently the Lenihan sentence should be rephrased. It's redundant to say unsubstantiated and "no evidence..." later. The "purportedly" part is redundant as well since we have captured the uncertainty/doubt with the earlier "Lenihan claimed..." It would probably be better to say Quillette published the finding of a Leniham study with claimed to have found X but [why study is deemed wrong]. It should be clear that Quillette didn't invent the claims, rather the unsupported/false/[term] claims were reported in Quillette. Also, we should be careful about citing The Independent in this case. The authors of that article are talking about things they say happened to themselves. That makes them 1st rather than 3rd party reporters of the material.
As for the DSA material. Why, "inadvertently" and "made further..."? ("Quillette inadvertently published and made further contributed to a hoax article "DSA Is Doomed".") It doesn't seem inadvertent, the source of the hoax, per the WP, said he targeted Quillette when creating the hoax.
Quillette's fact checking was questioned after the incident (not sure I like the current phrasing but it's supported). Anyway, we should try to agree on the phrasing rather than going for the back and forth. Springee (talk) 05:07, 24 December 2019 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-12-24T05:07:00.000Z","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Springee-2019-12-24T05:07:00.000Z-Controversies_section","replies":["c-YechezkelZilber-2019-12-28T15:17:00.000Z-Springee-2019-12-24T05:07:00.000Z"]}}-->
Grievance studies hoax Two RSs that profiled Quillette discussed this specific topic and Quillette's collaboration with the researchers behind the grievance studies articles. Due is established because two sources that are offering an overall profile of Quillette, as opposed to discussing a specific topic that involves Quillette, felt this content should be included in their profiles of Quillette. @Loksmythe, Bacondrum, and Shinealittlelight: Springee (talk) 00:40, 12 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-12T00:40:00.000Z","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Springee-2020-01-12T00:40:00.000Z-Controversies_section","replies":[]}}-->
Based on this discussion regarding claims made in a respected, reliable source at the reliable sources noticeboard, where uninvolved editors unanimously support the source and the claim (with attribution), I propose adding this to the ideology section (or perhaps the controversy section?):
Bacondrum (talk) 02:06, 10 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-10T02:06:00.000Z","author":"Bacondrum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bacondrum-2020-01-10T02:06:00.000Z-Human_Biological_Diversity","replies":[]}}-->
References
Journalist Donna Minkowitz accused Quillette of publishing articles by proponents of the of Human Biodiversity (HBD). [citation].
Lehmann told Politico that Quillette’s goal is “to broaden the Overton window”—that is to say, expand the limits of acceptable discourse. She didn’t stipulate that she wants these limits broadened only to the right, but she didn’t have to. Writing in Quillette, Lehmann said the Overton window should be shifted so that people can more openly denounce “immigration,” for example by trumpeting the Muslim heritage of sex-crime suspects.
Journalist Donna Minkowitz, in an article in The Nation, accused Quillette of trying to normalize racism by publishing articles by proponents of the of Human Biodiversity (HBD)
This guilt-by-association approach to publications and publication ends up attributing thousands of contradictory opinions to everyone who writes opinion journalism for many outlets.
@Vexations: Thanks for adding that tag; I tried to add a better source and removed it. Let me know if that isn't satisfactory. Shinealittlelight (talk) 02:12, 13 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-13T02:12:00.000Z","author":"Shinealittlelight","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-13T02:12:00.000Z-Better_source_for_first_sentence_in_ideology_section","replies":["c-Bacondrum-2020-01-13T07:51:00.000Z-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-13T02:12:00.000Z"]}}-->
For what it's worth, I don't see an issue with putting the "ideology" content in the history section. Neither section is very long. We could always expand the section name to be more inclusive of both history and general background. Springee (talk) 12:29, 13 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-13T12:29:00.000Z","author":"Springee","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Springee-2020-01-13T12:29:00.000Z-Better_source_for_first_sentence_in_ideology_section","replies":[]}}-->
If award winning journalist Donna Minkowitz And widely respected masthead The Nation are not RS then neither are Politico etc. We are clearly WP:CHERRYPICKING sources in a tendentious manner here, presenting the subject in the most favorable light possible. Based on the reasoning for refusal of the Minkowitz piece, I'm removing all non attributed claims that cite op-eds, opinion and analysis as per WP:PRIMARY. Lets have some consistency here. Bacondrum (talk) 22:43, 12 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-12T22:43:00.000Z","author":"Bacondrum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bacondrum-2020-01-12T22:43:00.000Z-Lack_of_consistent_reasoning","replies":["c-Jweiss11-2020-01-12T23:05:00.000Z-Bacondrum-2020-01-12T22:43:00.000Z"]}}-->
What's the evidence that [this] source is a blog (as claimed in the edit summary of the edit which removed it)? It seems like it is a journalist writing under the supervision of distinguished editors. I don't have much of a feeling about arcdigital. Could be a case for RSN. Shinealittlelight (talk) 02:03, 13 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-13T02:03:00.000Z","author":"Shinealittlelight","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-13T02:03:00.000Z-Lack_of_consistent_reasoning","replies":["c-Vexations-2020-01-13T02:23:00.000Z-Shinealittlelight-2020-01-13T02:03:00.000Z"]}}-->
The lack of consistent reasoning relating to sources here is indicative of WP:CHERRYPICKING AND WP:IDONTLIKEIT Bacondrum (talk) 07:33, 13 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-13T07:33:00.000Z","author":"Bacondrum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bacondrum-2020-01-13T07:33:00.000Z-Lack_of_consistent_reasoning","replies":["c-Jweiss11-2020-01-13T07:39:00.000Z-Bacondrum-2020-01-13T07:33:00.000Z"]}}-->
Arc Digital is owned/hosted by Medium. But it functions like a magazine with notable journalists like Cathy Young as writers/editors. It's not like Medium where anyone can post whatever they want. Jweiss11 (talk) 07:44, 13 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-13T07:44:00.000Z","author":"Jweiss11","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jweiss11-2020-01-13T07:44:00.000Z-Lack_of_consistent_reasoning","replies":["c-Bacondrum-2020-01-13T07:55:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2020-01-13T07:44:00.000Z"]}}-->
There is no indication of editorial review
Springee, I was talking about your comment here and that of Jweiss11 here, both of which concerned the piece in The Nation, AFAIK. Please let me know if I misunderstood.
Also, you are misstating WP policy about factual corrections. When a generally reliable source makes factual errors, we do not repeat the incorrect information and, where necessary, use other RS to provide corrective information. We do not ignore expert, reliable sources just because of a factual error.
What is more significant is your attempt to ignore or subvert the RSN finding that the source is reliable. That doesn't mean that we ignore factual errors, and it doesn't mean that it is necessarily DUE, but it does mean that this source is consodered by policy to be a reliable publication and potentially due for inclusion. A couple of editors vituperating a source and performing WEASEL paraphrase are leading the article away from, not towards BALANCE and NPOV. Newimpartial (talk) 19:14, 13 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-13T19:14:00.000Z","author":"Newimpartial","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Newimpartial-2020-01-13T19:14:00.000Z-Lack_of_consistent_reasoning","replies":["c-Springee-2020-01-13T19:39:00.000Z-Newimpartial-2020-01-13T19:14:00.000Z"]}}-->
I don't see any examples of factual errors in that comment, only differences of interpretation (about some of which I agree with you, but still matters of opinion). So I will take it that there are, in fact, no "gross misrepresentations of facts". Newimpartial (talk) 03:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-14T03:06:00.000Z","author":"Newimpartial","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Newimpartial-2020-01-14T03:06:00.000Z-Lack_of_consistent_reasoning","replies":["c-Springee-2020-01-14T03:18:00.000Z-Newimpartial-2020-01-14T03:06:00.000Z"]}}-->
White-Washing Race makes such an argument about contemporary scientific racism and self-identified liberals, in case you are actually interested.
So would you like for me to draft an NPOV throughline from Minkowitz, and we can collectively assess it for BALANCE and DUE? Newimpartial (talk) 15:25, 14 January 2020 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-01-14T15:25:00.000Z","author":"Newimpartial","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Newimpartial-2020-01-14T15:25:00.000Z-Lack_of_consistent_reasoning","replies":["c-Bacondrum-2020-01-15T21:07:00.000Z-Newimpartial-2020-01-14T15:25:00.000Z"]}}-->
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