User talk:DoubleGrazing

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If I declined your draft at AfC, and you came to ask me to re-review it, please don't (unless I expressly said you could) – I feel it's fairer to the other drafts that yours goes back to the pool... and probably also fairer to your draft that someone else reviews it next. (And if you just came to tell me you've made changes, that's great, but no need to inform me.)

If you still want to leave me a message about a draft or article, I'd appreciate if you could please link to the page in question, so I don't have to go hunting for it. Ta.


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Request on 12:39:40, 1 December 2024 for assistance on AfC submission by Matthew John Drummond

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I can't find any articles about the 1998 film Everyday Readers starring Peter Sallis. I also would like to see where the full movie is now.

Matthew John Drummond (talk) 12:39, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201123900","author":"Matthew John Drummond","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Matthew_John_Drummond-20241201123900-Request_on_12:39:40,_1_December_2024_for_assistance_on_AfC_submission_by_Matthew","replies":["c-DandelionAndBurdock-20241201131700-Matthew_John_Drummond-20241201123900"]}}-->

If you can't find any articles, books, news reports or anything else about it - then it's probably not notable by Wikipedia's standards. Not everything that a notable actor was involved in is necessarily notable. There might not be any full copy of the film that's easily avaliable anywhere, but that's not unusual and isn't a requirement for a Wikipedia article, what is required is independent, reliable and substainial coverage. ---- D'n'B-t -- 13:17, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201131700","author":"DandelionAndBurdock","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DandelionAndBurdock-20241201131700-Matthew_John_Drummond-20241201123900","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241201132200-DandelionAndBurdock-20241201131700"],"displayName":"D'n'B"}}-->
Thanks @DandelionAndBurdock, I was just about to say something along the same lines, but you beat me to it. :)
There is of course also the option of demonstrating notability via the special WP:NFILM route, which could be possible even if sufficient sources for satisfying WP:GNG cannot be found. This would still require at least some reliable source(s) to prove that one or more of the NFILM criteria is met. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:22, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201132200","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241201132200-DandelionAndBurdock-20241201131700","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241201132200-DoubleGrazing-20241201132200"]}}-->
Courtesy ping: Matthew John Drummond -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:22, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201132200","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241201132200-DoubleGrazing-20241201132200","replies":[]}}-->
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Better late...

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Congratulations on the mop. I've seen you around so long that when the script cyaned your username, I assumed it had always been thus until I saw the comments above. I'm getting old... Jimfbleak - talk to me? 16:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201164100","author":"Jimfbleak","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jimfbleak-20241201164100-Better_late...","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241201165800-Jimfbleak-20241201164100"]}}-->

Thanks @Jimfbleak! :) Yeah, I know what you mean. Sometimes my memory does... that... what was I saying again? DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:58, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201165800","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241201165800-Jimfbleak-20241201164100","replies":[]}}-->
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User:Sukdev Mahapatra

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oh wise one…I was looking to tag User:Sukdev Mahapatra for speedy deletion, but no option appears for me in the drop down menus. I have tagged the similar rejected draft Draft:Sukdev Mahapatra. Is there now no option for tagging user pages which are blatantly promotional? Theroadislong (talk) 19:25, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201192500","author":"Theroadislong","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Theroadislong-20241201192500-User:Sukdev_Mahapatra","replies":["c-I_dream_of_horses-20241201194000-Theroadislong-20241201192500","c-I_dream_of_horses-20241201194700-Theroadislong-20241201192500"]}}-->

@Theroadislong (talk page watcher) Maybe it's because the userpage actually exists on meta.wikimedia.org, and would have to be deleted there. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 19:40, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201194000","author":"I dream of horses","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-I_dream_of_horses-20241201194000-Theroadislong-20241201192500","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241201195100-I_dream_of_horses-20241201194000"]}}-->
Err... yeah, what she said. I knew that. (Not.) DoubleGrazing (talk) 19:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201195100","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241201195100-I_dream_of_horses-20241201194000","replies":["c-I_dream_of_horses-20241201195500-DoubleGrazing-20241201195100"]}}-->
I will accept my position of "O Wise One" with grace and glee. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 19:55, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201195500","author":"I dream of horses","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-I_dream_of_horses-20241201195500-DoubleGrazing-20241201195100","replies":[]}}-->
@Theroadislong Apologies for the double ping. I tried nominating the page for speedy deletion on Meta and got a "People don't usually edit other peoples user pages. If you have a concern, go here." So, I went where I was directed. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 19:47, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201194700","author":"I dream of horses","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-I_dream_of_horses-20241201194700-Theroadislong-20241201192500","replies":["c-Theroadislong-20241201201400-I_dream_of_horses-20241201194700"]}}-->
Excellent thank you, we live and learn! Theroadislong (talk) 20:14, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201201400","author":"Theroadislong","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Theroadislong-20241201201400-I_dream_of_horses-20241201194700","replies":["c-I_dream_of_horses-20241202065200-Theroadislong-20241201201400"]}}-->
@Theroadislong and DoubleGrazing: Look at that, they have a resume-like userpage now. Still problematic, but given the recent discussions on U5 deletions, I'm not nominating. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 06:52, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241202065200","author":"I dream of horses","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-I_dream_of_horses-20241202065200-Theroadislong-20241201201400","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241202065900-I_dream_of_horses-20241202065200"]}}-->
@I dream of horses: urgh... looks like they're getting pretty close to !HERE.
What discussions on U5? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:59, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241202065900","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241202065900-I_dream_of_horses-20241202065200","replies":["c-I_dream_of_horses-20241202072000-DoubleGrazing-20241202065900"]}}-->
@DoubleGrazing The one that ultimately led to Fastilys' retirement. Hypothetically, this user could be posting their resume to inform us how/where they might edit. And that's the issue. They're right on the border. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 07:20, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241202072000","author":"I dream of horses","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-I_dream_of_horses-20241202072000-DoubleGrazing-20241202065900","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241202072500-I_dream_of_horses-20241202072000"]}}-->
Oh right, thanks @I dream of horses; I thought maybe there had been something in the last day or two, which I'd missed. Yeah, this is a tricky area, and the UP guidance isn't very clear at all (probably on purpose!). Must try to be on my best behaviour, then... DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:25, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241202072500","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241202072500-I_dream_of_horses-20241202072000","replies":["c-Theroadislong-20241202084100-DoubleGrazing-20241202072500"]}}-->
I don't see it as being borderline their account is being used only for promotional purposes. Repeated blatant promotion of self on user page, and assorted deleted drafts, and zero other useful edits anywhere on the project. Theroadislong (talk) 08:41, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241202084100","author":"Theroadislong","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Theroadislong-20241202084100-DoubleGrazing-20241202072500","replies":[]}}-->
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Administrators' newsletter – December 2024

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News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2024).

Administrator changes

added
readded
removed

Interface administrator changes

added
readded Pppery

CheckUser changes

readded

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

Arbitration


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Draft:Cosmic Latte (company) and Draft:Cosmic Latte

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The originator has submitted another version of the draft after you moved/renamed it. This is probably good-faith confusion. Both versions of the draft are now declined. If the originator is able to demonstrate corporate notability, it will have to be accepted as Cosmic Latte (company) because Cosmic latte is the blended color of galaxies in the universe. Sometimes multiple copies of drafts are an attempt to confuse the reviewers, and sometimes they are confusion by the originator. I think we can assume good faith. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:07, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241203190700","author":"Robert McClenon","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Robert_McClenon-20241203190700-Draft:Cosmic_Latte_(company)_and_Draft:Cosmic_Latte","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241203200300-Robert_McClenon-20241203190700"]}}-->

Okay, I'm with you on this @Robert McClenon. Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 20:03, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241203200300","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241203200300-Robert_McClenon-20241203190700","replies":[]}}-->
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A barnstar for you!

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The Special Barnstar
Thanks for being awesome. qcne (talk) 21:42, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241203214200","author":"Qcne","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Qcne-20241203214200-A_barnstar_for_you!","replies":[]}}-->
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Kurds in Sudan

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Hi DoubleGrazing. Please look at a page's history before deleting it. (WP:CSD: "A page is eligible for speedy deletion only if all of its history is also eligible.") Rather than deleting just a move redirect, you deleted the original version of the article/draft, which had (for no discernible reason) been swapped back to the mainspace and then WP:BLARred back to a cut-and-pasted copy in draftspace. SilverLocust 💬 21:31, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241204213100","author":"SilverLocust","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SilverLocust-20241204213100-Kurds_in_Sudan","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241205063400-SilverLocust-20241204213100"]}}-->

Thanks for the heads-up, @SilverLocust. I'm staring at the page history/-ies, and can't understand quite what happened, let alone why it happened. I thought I was implementing a straightforward R2, but guess not. I consider myself duly trouted.
Do I need to do something to fix this (that I've broken)? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:34, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241205063400","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241205063400-SilverLocust-20241204213100","replies":["c-SilverLocust-20241205071600-DoubleGrazing-20241205063400"]}}-->
I've fixed it. (Undeleted, reverted the swap, and deleted the correct version.) Thanks, SilverLocust 💬 07:16, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241205071600","author":"SilverLocust","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SilverLocust-20241205071600-DoubleGrazing-20241205063400","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241205071900-SilverLocust-20241205071600"]}}-->
Thanks @SilverLocust, appreciated! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:19, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241205071900","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241205071900-SilverLocust-20241205071600","replies":[]}}-->
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World Wide Flora Fauna (WWFF) page declined

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I have tried to create a page for the World Wide Flora Fauna (WWFF) program but it has been declined.

There is an equivalent program called Parks On the Air (POTA) and that has been allowed.

Can you please explain why the POTA Wikipedia page was allowed?

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Hi @Simmopa,
I don't know, I haven't looked at the article you mention. Some articles pre-date our current reviewing procedures, some even our notability and referencing requirements. Perhaps it was created by a user with the necessary permissions to publish directly, without anyone reviewing it. It doesn't really matter, because we don't review new drafts by comparison to existing articles, but rather by reference to the prevailing policies and guidelines.
By declining your draft, I didn't say "this will never be accepted"; that would have been what we call a rejection, meaning end of the road. Decline simply means the draft has potential, but isn't yet ready to be published. In this case, it hasn't demonstrated notability, which is a core requirement for inclusion in the encyclopaedia. Notability in most cases requires significant coverage in multiple secondary sources that are reliable and independent, see WP:GNG for more on that. In fact, Wikipedia articles should be composed only (well, mostly) by summarising what such sources have said.
HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:10, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241206071000","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241206071000-Simmopa-20241206065600","replies":[]}}-->
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Request on 07:00:53, 9 December 2024 for assistance on AfC submission by Ashishbusinesscoach

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Ashishbusinesscoach (talk) 07:00, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241209070000","author":"Ashishbusinesscoach","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ashishbusinesscoach-20241209070000-Request_on_07:00:53,_9_December_2024_for_assistance_on_AfC_submission_by_Ashishb","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241209070200-Ashishbusinesscoach-20241209070000"]}}-->

@Ashishbusinesscoach: ?? DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:02, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241209070200","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241209070200-Ashishbusinesscoach-20241209070000","replies":[]}}-->
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Query about a Person

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Hello, I want to create a article about Alakh Pandey. He's quite notable and should have a standalone article in my point of view. Earlier 3 attempts were made to create article about him (as I can see in the deletion log) after that the topic was made a redirect to his company. That's why I can't create the article directly. So what should I do shall I create a draft and submit it for review? Or anything else? I have never created any article which is a redirect to any topic, and therefore asking help from you as an experience editor and admin. AstuteFlicker (talk) 10:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241210101100","author":"AstuteFlicker","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AstuteFlicker-20241210101100-Query_about_a_Person","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241210102000-AstuteFlicker-20241210101100"]}}-->

Hi @AstuteFlicker: there is so much sockpuppetry and other rubbish in the history of this subject (both at Alakh Pandey and Draft:Alakh Pandey) that my advice would be to steer well clear of it. That said, there's nothing stopping you giving it a try, of course, if you insist. Don't attempt to publish it directly, though, put it through AfC instead; if the draft is accepted, the reviewer will then make the necessary arrangements to have it published in the main article space. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:20, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241210102000","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241210102000-AstuteFlicker-20241210101100","replies":["c-AstuteFlicker-20241210115300-DoubleGrazing-20241210102000"]}}-->
@DoubleGrazing Thank You very much for your valuable time to my Query. I truly understand your concern. I would love to know from you as an experienced editor that, why do you feel that the topic ain't notable. I can understand that the history of this topic is filled with sockpuppetry and rubbish stuff but that is because the editors were not knowledgeable or had any basic experience and tried to create the article out of no where, if a person who is really into this and doing this passionately could create a draft, so what do you think does the topic fulfills Wikipedia's WP:GNG. I ain't satisfied with the existing draft. Also, the draft is already rejected and there is no use of putting efforts into it. Additionally, I firmly believe that if I am putting efforts into a particular Draft, then the author name should be mine (provided that the existing draft is not well-sourced and overall well created). So, as you know there is already a draft created which has been rejected too. Now, if I want to create a draft from the beginning what shall I do because the existing draft exists now also. AstuteFlicker (talk) 11:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241210115300","author":"AstuteFlicker","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-AstuteFlicker-20241210115300-DoubleGrazing-20241210102000","replies":[]}}-->
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Article Deleted

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Why was my article deleted after 3 months? 103.187.96.235 (talk) 09:57, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212095700","author":"103.187.96.235","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-103.187.96.235-20241212095700-Article_Deleted","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241212100000-103.187.96.235-20241212095700"]}}-->

I've no idea. What article? Who are you? There are no deleted contributions in your edit history under this IP. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:00, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212100000","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241212100000-103.187.96.235-20241212095700","replies":[]}}-->
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Good shot

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This is either a fast learner or an old hand evading a block. Still, I enjoyed the trout they gave ne, 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 13:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212132300","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Timtrent-20241212132300-Good_shot","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241212133800-Timtrent-20241212132300"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

@Timtrent Yeah... I don't know how long I'd been here before I learned that trouting was a thing, but we're talking years. (Mind you, I always was slow on the uptake.) Maybe someone should write a cautionary essay on 'don't apply the trout', in the manner of 'don't cite bite'. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:38, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212133800","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241212133800-Timtrent-20241212132300","replies":[]}}-->
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Norman Frederick Astbury

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Hello DoubleGrazing

Thanks again for the 'heads up' with respect to my COI. I have tried to follow your guidance and have inserted the following comment at the beginning of my draft:

{{User COI: I would like to declare a conflict of interest with respect to my being both the author of this AfC as well as the youngest son of the subject.}}

Is this OK, please? Is there any further guidance you are able to offer, please?

Best regards

Nigel/Kestrel2Zero Kestrel2Zero (talk) 14:24, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212142400","author":"Kestrel2Zero","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kestrel2Zero-20241212142400-Norman_Frederick_Astbury","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241212144000-Kestrel2Zero-20241212142400"]}}-->

Hi @Kestrel2Zero,
The two (main) ways of disclosing a COI are:
  1. Placing the template you mention ({{User COI}}) on your user page, and in it adding the name of the article to which it relates); and/or
  2. Placing the {{Connected contributor}} template on the talk page of the article to which it relates, and adding your user name into the template.
Either way, nothing should go into the actual draft or article page.
Let me know if you'd like me to do this for you, and if so which option (or both) you prefer. There's not much difference between them, but personally I prefer the first option.
Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:40, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241212144000","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241212144000-Kestrel2Zero-20241212142400","replies":["c-Kestrel2Zero-20241217044600-DoubleGrazing-20241212144000"]}}-->
Hello again, Double Grazing - Thanks for this advice. I think that my Mentor, DavidnotMD, may have actioned this for me using your Option 1. As a ‘newbie’ I value this type of guidance hugely: so, a big thank you for your input. Nigel/Kestrel2Zero Kestrel2Zero (talk) 04:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241217044600","author":"Kestrel2Zero","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Kestrel2Zero-20241217044600-DoubleGrazing-20241212144000","replies":[]}}-->
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Regarding Paid edit disclosure

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As you are writing about your own business, you clearly have a financial stake in the subject, and therefore you must make the paid-editing disclosure.

Need help on this as we are not paying to any editors and give us a clear review.

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IsilSenol

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Hi,

I noticed that my article submission on the Kavli Institute for Nanoscience Discovery was declined. I would greatly appreciate it if you could provide more feedback on what aspects of the article might need improvement.

I ensured that the information was supported by reliable sources, including Oxford University and the Kavli Foundation, so I am unsure why it did not meet the requirements.

Here is the link: Draft:Kavli Institute for Nanoscience Discovery

Thank you in advance for your time and assistance.

All the best,

Isil IsilSenol (talk) 18:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241216183200","author":"IsilSenol","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-IsilSenol-20241216183200-IsilSenol","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20241216183700-IsilSenol-20241216183200"]}}-->

@IsilSenol: please see the decline notice, as well as my comments accompanying it, so that I don't have to repeat them here.
Now that you're here, I need to ask what is your relationship with this subject? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 18:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241216183700","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20241216183700-IsilSenol-20241216183200","replies":[]}}-->