This is an archive of past discussions with User:DoubleGrazing. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Sir,

As the newspaper is local paper, It was not mentioned in Major newspapers.

I have provided Complete database of ePaper as facebook page.

Kindly Consider to add this. This is becoming genuine and Reliable source in our City. Srinivasrjy (talk) 11:14, 31 July 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240731111400","author":"Srinivasrjy","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Srinivasrjy-20240731111400-Eevela_Newspaper_Rejection","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240801083400-Srinivasrjy-20240731111400"]}}-->

This subject, like every other one, has to be shown to be notable. Your draft cites three sources, none of which contributes anything towards notability. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:34, 1 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240801083400","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240801083400-Srinivasrjy-20240731111400","replies":[]}}-->

During a recent back and forth at WP:AFC I quoted the mantra that "interviews are not reliable, independent sources" when I was questioned about this I couldn't actually find any guidelines to back this up. WP:IS doesn't mention this. Any suggestions? Theroadislong (talk) 08:15, 1 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240801081500","author":"Theroadislong","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Theroadislong-20240801081500-Interviews_as_sources","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240801082500-Theroadislong-20240801081500","c-Theroadislong-20240801163600-Theroadislong-20240801081500"]}}-->

@Theroadislong: I think interviews are like the subject's own website, etc. – it's the subject saying what they want to say about themselves, and how they want to say it. So not independent, and not necessary reliable as most sources (even RS ones) don't apply fact-checking to live interviews. Therefore can be used to support non-contentious factual information, but nothing more than that, and doesn't contribute towards notability. That's my understanding of it, at any rate. I don't know if any actual policy says that about interviews explicitly, but I think it's very much implied.

I'm surprised if someone's given you heat over this – was it someone 'authoritative'? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240801082500","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240801082500-Theroadislong-20240801081500","replies":[]}}-->

Yes that was my understanding too. it was User PJRHawkeye and Draft:Molly Brown (American actress). Theroadislong (talk) 16:36, 1 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240801163600","author":"Theroadislong","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Theroadislong-20240801163600-Theroadislong-20240801081500","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240801082700-Theroadislong-20240801163600"]}}-->

PS: Found this WP:INTERVIEWS. It's only an essay, but may be useful here. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240801082700","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240801082700-Theroadislong-20240801163600","replies":["c-Theroadislong-20240801163800-DoubleGrazing-20240801082700"]}}-->

Ah yes that's helpful thank you! Theroadislong (talk) 16:38, 1 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240801163800","author":"Theroadislong","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Theroadislong-20240801163800-DoubleGrazing-20240801082700","replies":["c-S0091-20240803174500-Theroadislong-20240801163800"]}}-->

@Theroadislong the policy is OR, specifically primary and mention of interviews is buried in note d, but I roll it up under "insider's view". S0091 (talk) 17:45, 3 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240803174500","author":"S0091","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-S0091-20240803174500-Theroadislong-20240801163800","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240803180000-S0091-20240803174500"]}}-->

@S0091: well done for finding that, although someone clearly worked hard to hide it! It's slightly odd, though... "primary" I get, and your "insider's view" makes sense, but OR isn't one that I would have tagged it as. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 18:00, 3 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240803180000","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240803180000-S0091-20240803174500","replies":["c-Theroadislong-20240803180500-DoubleGrazing-20240803180000"]}}-->

Yes I'm surprised it is well tucked away too, perhaps it needs to be lifted from the undergrowth and given better emphasis? Theroadislong (talk) 18:05, 3 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240803180500","author":"Theroadislong","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Theroadislong-20240803180500-DoubleGrazing-20240803180000","replies":["c-S0091-20240803185000-Theroadislong-20240803180500"]}}-->

Interviews are tricky because they can be RS and satisfy V (like other primary sources). I think it's not prominently mentioned because of the trickiness as they are often both primary and secondary. What bothers me more about primary is it makes it sound like it only pertains to accounts written by an insider, which is not true. I think a more accurate statement would be what an insider has written or said, regardless of the publisher is primary. It hints at it with #1 which is too vague but most of Wikipedia's PAGs are vague. I mean what is SIGCOV? Based on the guideline it is needs to be more than a mention and that book about the topic meets SIGCOV. S0091 (talk) 18:50, 3 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240803185000","author":"S0091","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-S0091-20240803185000-Theroadislong-20240803180500","replies":[]}}-->

In this edit of Draft:Narendra Bhooshan, why did you bracket {{Draft categories}} with another {{Draft categories}}? —Anomalocaris (talk) 08:28, 1 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240801082800","author":"Anomalocaris","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Anomalocaris-20240801082800-Draft_categories","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240801083200-Anomalocaris-20240801082800"]}}-->

@Anomalocaris: I didn't, that was done automatically when I moved it to drafts. I'm guessing the script doesn't check if that's been done already (this was previously draftified), and just goes ahead and does it anyway. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240801083200","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240801083200-Anomalocaris-20240801082800","replies":[]}}-->

HI, CAN YOU HELP ME WITH THE OTHER ARTICLE ALSO THEY DON'T GET DECLINED. 2405:201:5005:68E2:1D82:2ABC:79AC:440C (talk) 05:48, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804054800","author":"2405:201:5005:68E2:1D82:2ABC:79AC:440C","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-2405:201:5005:68E2:1D82:2ABC:79AC:440C-20240804054800-MY_ARTICLES","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240804070500-2405:201:5005:68E2:1D82:2ABC:79AC:440C-20240804054800"]}}-->

I've no idea what "other article" you're referring to, as you don't link to it, and this message seems to be your only edit from this IP address. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:05, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804070500","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240804070500-2405:201:5005:68E2:1D82:2ABC:79AC:440C-20240804054800","replies":[]}}-->

Well, that took longer than I thought! I have left a comment at the AfD. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:17, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804141700","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804141700-Christopher_McDonald_(booking_agent)","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240804162000-Timtrent-20240804141700"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

This is going to be as protracted as the review process. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:20, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804162000","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804162000-Timtrent-20240804141700","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240804162800-Timtrent-20240804162000"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

@Timtrent: well knock me over with a feather! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:28, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804162800","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240804162800-Timtrent-20240804162000","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240804165700-DoubleGrazing-20240804162800"]}}-->

I suspect it will arrive back in Draft. Yawn. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:57, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804165700","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804165700-DoubleGrazing-20240804162800","replies":[],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

Hey, could you let me know what to fix, my article was draft:abdul mazid photo. I provided all necessary citations and made sure to primarily speak in a neutral tone. Manghrat123 (talk) 15:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804154300","author":"Manghrat123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Manghrat123-20240804154300-got_declined!","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240804154800-Manghrat123-20240804154300"]}}-->

@Manghrat123: please read the decline notice, including following all the links therein; they explain the reasons.

In case you're disputing the need for inline citations on the basis that the subject is no longer a living person, then the reason for that is that per WP:BDP, recently-deceased persons are still subject to the referencing requirements set out in WP:BLP. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:48, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804154800","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240804154800-Manghrat123-20240804154300","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240804170400-DoubleGrazing-20240804154800"]}}-->

@Manghrat123 (talk page watcher) please do not decorate drafts or articles with photographs you have found on the internet. This one is a copyright violation, and is being handled on Commons. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:04, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804170400","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804170400-DoubleGrazing-20240804154800","replies":["c-Manghrat123-20240804171500-Timtrent-20240804170400"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

it's not from the internet, it's originally from his campaign in 2019.

https://www.observerbd.com/news.php?id=185397

He's deceased but we have his approval from years ago to use this. Manghrat123 (talk) 17:15, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804171500","author":"Manghrat123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Manghrat123-20240804171500-Timtrent-20240804170400","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240804171700-Manghrat123-20240804171500","c-DoubleGrazing-20240804174100-Manghrat123-20240804171500"]}}-->

@Manghrat123 please follow the procedures at c:COM:VRT with the permissions. It is being handled on Commons, not on the English Language Wikipedia. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:17, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804171700","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804171700-Manghrat123-20240804171500","replies":[],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

@Manghrat123: you are not merely 'using' it, you are releasing it into the public domain, free of any copyright or other proprietary rights. Are you sure you have his approval for that?

Another thing: you clearly have a conflict of interest regarding this subject. I have posted a message on your talk page with advice on how to disclose that. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:41, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804174100","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240804174100-Manghrat123-20240804171500","replies":["c-Manghrat123-20240804174400-DoubleGrazing-20240804174100"]}}-->

yeah, we do have the approval for that since it's already IN the public domain. check the daily star article i posted.

He was the president of my BAR association, thus we are writing a biography. Manghrat123 (talk) 17:44, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804174400","author":"Manghrat123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Manghrat123-20240804174400-DoubleGrazing-20240804174100","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240804174900-Manghrat123-20240804174400"]}}-->

@Manghrat123: publishing a photo on the internet may make it publicly available, but it does not place it in the public domain. If you are not the owner of the copyright in this image, you cannot release that copyright; you cannot give away someone else's property. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:49, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804174900","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240804174900-Manghrat123-20240804174400","replies":["c-Manghrat123-20240804175600-DoubleGrazing-20240804174900"]}}-->

Eitherway, Manikganj BAR association has rights to the picture Manghrat123 (talk) 17:56, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804175600","author":"Manghrat123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Manghrat123-20240804175600-DoubleGrazing-20240804174900","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240804181000-Manghrat123-20240804175600"]}}-->

@Manghrat123 Entirely your decision about using COM:VRT. It is of no interest to me one way or the other. Commons administrators will deal with that, and may already have done so. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:10, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804181000","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804181000-Manghrat123-20240804175600","replies":["c-Manghrat123-20240804183600-Timtrent-20240804181000"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

then it's best if you mind your own business. Manghrat123 (talk) 18:36, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804183600","author":"Manghrat123","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Manghrat123-20240804183600-Timtrent-20240804181000","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240804191600-Manghrat123-20240804183600","c-Timtrent-20240804192100-Manghrat123-20240804183600"]}}-->

@Manghrat123: it is our business as much as it is yours. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, and relies on different editors working together. Telling others to "mind your own business" is neither polite nor constructive. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 19:16, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804191600","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240804191600-Manghrat123-20240804183600","replies":[]}}-->

@Manghrat123 Well, my rude friend, if you want the picture kept, you supply the permissions to COM:VRT. No permissions, no picture, of that I am certain, for it most assuredly appears to be a copyright violation.

Your move. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:21, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804192100","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804192100-Manghrat123-20240804183600","replies":["c-Manghrat123-20240804192400-Timtrent-20240804192100"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

Listen, i've been plenty polite go along now.

Tim trent, buzz off dude Manghrat123 (talk) 19:24, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804192400","author":"Manghrat123","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-Manghrat123-20240804192400-Timtrent-20240804192100","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240804193200-Manghrat123-20240804192400"]}}-->

@Manghrat123 You have not. I have already warned you once on your user talk page.

By happenstance, while you were reinforcing your rudeness here I have declined your draft. You are welcome to ask others to review that decline, but it will not be withdrawn. You need to learn to work well with others. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804193200","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804193200-Manghrat123-20240804192400","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240804193300-Timtrent-20240804193200","c-Manghrat123-20240804193400-Timtrent-20240804193200"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

I was in the process of declining it myself, but you beat me to it. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 19:33, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804193300","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":14,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240804193300-Timtrent-20240804193200","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240804193600-DoubleGrazing-20240804193300"]}}-->

@DoubleGrazing Sorry! If it's all the same to you I will leave it to you to deal with my rude new friend. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:36, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804193600","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":15,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804193600-DoubleGrazing-20240804193300","replies":[],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

get a job bud, you're not the only person that can review drafts.

you're insanely sensitive and need to learn to not be such a soyboy. Manghrat123 (talk) 19:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804193400","author":"Manghrat123","type":"comment","level":14,"id":"c-Manghrat123-20240804193400-Timtrent-20240804193200","replies":[]}}-->

It appears that the term used is more than insulting. It appears to be hate speech. I had not intended action, but would have taken it myself had I troubled to look Soy boy up. I have left a comment on your report. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:40, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804204000","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804204000-I_appreciate_your_report","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240804204300-Timtrent-20240804204000"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

@Timtrent that comment really was beyond the pale. Otherwise I might still have let it slide, but FFS, enough's enough! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 20:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804204300","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240804204300-Timtrent-20240804204000","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240804204900-DoubleGrazing-20240804204300"]}}-->

Thank you for calling out hate speech. I now know one more insult I can be called. I thought I knew them all! Patently I did not. To me the excuse used at ANI does not hold water. It is like using a pejorative racial term and saying it was not meant.

Well, we will see what transpires. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:49, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804204900","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804204900-DoubleGrazing-20240804204300","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240804205800-Timtrent-20240804204900"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

Unfortunately I have a crap track record at ANI, many of my reports get the attention of only passing tumbleweeds, so chances are nothing transpires. But what else can you do? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 20:58, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804205800","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240804205800-Timtrent-20240804204900","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240804210000-DoubleGrazing-20240804205800","c-Timtrent-20240804213000-DoubleGrazing-20240804205800"]}}-->

Well, he is making a big show there. And I am offended, though I have a skin like rhino hide. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:00, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804210000","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804210000-DoubleGrazing-20240804205800","replies":[],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

It seems your track record has improved. Thank you. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804213000","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804213000-DoubleGrazing-20240804205800","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240804213400-Timtrent-20240804213000"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

Auch ein blindes Huhn findet mal ein Korn, as the saying goes. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 21:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804213400","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240804213400-Timtrent-20240804213000","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240804213700-DoubleGrazing-20240804213400"]}}-->

I can almost hear my father saying that. He was often saying things like that. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:37, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804213700","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240804213700-DoubleGrazing-20240804213400","replies":[],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

Hello sir. How do I write my story --Balm Angel (talk) 22:21, 4 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240804222100","author":"Balm Angel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Balm_Angel-20240804222100-Question_from_Balm_Angel_(22:21,_4_August_2024)","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240805055900-Balm_Angel-20240804222100"]}}-->

Hi @Balm Angel: you can find pretty much everything you need for article creation at WP:YFA.

That said, if by "my story" you mean that you want to write an article about yourself, then don't. Please see WP:AUTOBIO for the reasons why we very strongly discourage autobiographies. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 05:59, 5 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240805055900","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240805055900-Balm_Angel-20240804222100","replies":[]}}-->

Apparently Sukant Kadam has refused to accept the Afc outcome and quickly recreated a new page about a person who is coaching him at the professional level. Clear COI as it is with his partner Pramod Bhagat, which caused him editing restriction on that page. What is the likely course of action here, as Mayank Gole exists both as a draft and article? I just A7d it, as it is failing GNG per my assessment. zoglophie^•talk• 16:35, 6 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240806163500","author":"Zoglophie","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Zoglophie-20240806163500-Mayank_Gole","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240806164900-Zoglophie-20240806163500"]}}-->

Hi @Zoglophie: yes, this user has created or edited multiple articles in which they have a COI, including that autobio. I told them they shouldn't do this, and they replied "understood", but seems like maybe they didn't. Looking at the number of warnings on their talk page, going back years, I guess it's time to take them to COIN (or possibly ANI). -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:49, 6 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240806164900","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240806164900-Zoglophie-20240806163500","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, could you please provide what I need to change in my article? I've already addded some more information IcarusM96 (talk) 09:15, 8 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240808091500","author":"IcarusM96","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-IcarusM96-20240808091500-Article_about_Denys_Vasyliuk_was_declined","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240808092300-IcarusM96-20240808091500"]}}-->

@IcarusM96: we would need to see significant coverage about him in multiple secondary sources; of the sources cited, only the first one (Pravda) is secondary, and it alone isn't enough.

Please note also WP:NOTMEMORIAL. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240808092300","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240808092300-IcarusM96-20240808091500","replies":["c-IcarusM96-20240808121100-DoubleGrazing-20240808092300","c-IcarusM96-20240808150500-DoubleGrazing-20240808092300"]}}-->

Ok, thanks, I'll add more links to the sources. There is a war in Ukraine, and he was a Ukrainian military pilot. Therefore, there was a little information about him in the mass media. Currently there are more information after his death. IcarusM96 (talk) 12:11, 8 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240808121100","author":"IcarusM96","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-IcarusM96-20240808121100-DoubleGrazing-20240808092300","replies":[]}}-->

I've added more links IcarusM96 (talk) 15:05, 8 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240808150500","author":"IcarusM96","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-IcarusM96-20240808150500-DoubleGrazing-20240808092300","replies":[]}}-->

made my day. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:02, 9 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240809130200","author":"Deepfriedokra","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Deepfriedokra-20240809130200-you","replies":[],"displayName":"-- Deepfriedokra"}}-->

Dear, MrGrazing My article has been rejected because of notability issues and I am trying to figure out how to deal with it. While doing so I got to know that there are many school and Colleges articles where proper Citations are not been provided but then also they are on the Article Page one such example is DPS Kidwai Nagar which has no notability but is on the article space and this is just one example there are 1000s of it. Whereas my article Draft:Delhi Public School, Dooars has a citation by The Statesman but is not on the Article Space even though it is very much searched on the web... I Urge you to please give it a chance and accept it for the Article Space. Amanatadverse17 (talk) 12:22, 10 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240810122200","author":"Amanatadverse17","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Amanatadverse17-20240810122200-Contradictions_spotted_between_My_article_and_DPS_Kidwai_Nagar","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240810133100-Amanatadverse17-20240810122200"]}}-->

@Amanatadverse17: your draft (not yet article) was not rejected, only declined, although if you resubmit without addressing the decline reason it will eventually be rejected outright.

You need to read and understand the notability guideline pertaining to organisations, WP:ORG, and provide evidence that this school meets that. A single secondary source is never going to be enough for that. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:31, 10 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240810133100","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240810133100-Amanatadverse17-20240810122200","replies":["c-2409:40E1:1002:A1C3:8000:0:0:0-20240810170800-DoubleGrazing-20240810133100"]}}-->

And what about the other articles about other schools and colleges?? How are those articles on the article space without proper notability?? 2409:40E1:1002:A1C3:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 17:08, 10 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240810170800","author":"2409:40E1:1002:A1C3:8000:0:0:0","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-2409:40E1:1002:A1C3:8000:0:0:0-20240810170800-DoubleGrazing-20240810133100","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240810174500-2409:40E1:1002:A1C3:8000:0:0:0-20240810170800"]}}-->

If you have found other articles which do not meet our notability requirements, that is no reason to create more such problems. You are welcome to improve them, or if that isn't possible, to start deletion proceedings. (See also: WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:45, 10 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240810174500","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240810174500-2409:40E1:1002:A1C3:8000:0:0:0-20240810170800","replies":[]}}-->

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:AP_(Thailand)_Public_Company_Limited I'm trying to translate from Thai to English but you asked me to show that I'm hired. How do I show this and what are the steps? Spt880 (talk) 16:33, 10 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240810163300","author":"Spt880","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Spt880-20240810163300-How_can_I_translate_my_article?","replies":[]}}-->

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:AP_(Thailand)_Public_Company_Limited your comment Comment: See also Draft:AP Thailand Company, AP (Thailand company), and possibly others. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 18:06, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

AP is the registered company name. It is the same company as Asian Property, not multiple companies. Spt880 (talk) 07:16, 12 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240812071600","author":"Spt880","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Spt880-20240812071600-registered_company_name","replies":[]}}-->

Hi @DoubleGrazing Request you to review this new article on new series Kaantaye Kaantaye. This is a Bengali language series starring some of the most popular actors in the region. Noyonjp (talk) 15:18, 13 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240813151800","author":"Noyonjp","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Noyonjp-20240813151800-New_article_-_Kaantaye_Kaantaye","replies":[]}}-->

Hi

I'm new to Wikipedia editing and would like some guidance. Could you explain the best practices for making my first edit, especially in terms of sourcing and formatting? How can I ensure my edits won't be reverted? --Unknownhx (talk) 06:14, 14 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240814061400","author":"Unknownhx","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Unknownhx-20240814061400-Question_from_Unknownhx_(06:14,_14_August_2024)","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240814140400-Unknownhx-20240814061400"]}}-->

Hi @Unknownhx: you can't really ensure that your edits won't be reverted, since Wikipedia is a collaborative project where anyone is welcome to improve articles; even if your edits aren't reverted immediately, it may be that someone comes along next week or month or year and rewrites the entire article. That's just the nature of the game.

If you haven't yet done so, you should take a look at WP:HOW, which has all the key advice you'll need, including a lot of links to further sources of info. Especially the section Contributing_to_Wikipedia is should answer your questions.

Happy editing! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:04, 14 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240814140400","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240814140400-Unknownhx-20240814061400","replies":[]}}-->

Hi! How can I made the page sound less like an advertisement? For the BBCO one? Marketingtd123 (talk) 14:07, 15 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240815140700","author":"Marketingtd123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Marketingtd123-20240815140700-Help!","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240815141200-Marketingtd123-20240815140700"]}}-->

@Marketingtd123: this is written from the point of view of the company. We have no interest in what they want to say about themselves. It also mostly tells us what the company does. Instead we want to see what independent third parties have decided, of their own volition, to say about the company and what makes it noteworthy. You need to find multiple sources that meet the WP:GNG standard for notability, and summarise (in your own words, but without putting any 'spin' on things) what they have said. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:12, 15 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240815141200","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240815141200-Marketingtd123-20240815140700","replies":["c-Marketingtd123-20240815143300-DoubleGrazing-20240815141200"]}}-->

You're awesome. Thank you for your help! I appreciate it a lot. Happy editing :D I will change it -- Marketingtd123 (talk) 14:33, 15 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240815143300","author":"Marketingtd123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Marketingtd123-20240815143300-DoubleGrazing-20240815141200","replies":[]}}-->

Hello DoubleGrazing. Would you be so kind as to enlighten me as to what just happened with the above page? After noticing that Jclemens was hot on the trail of an AI vandal at AfD, I stumbled across the above draft the AI person created. Fun fact: I had started putting this article together myself offline in February (and I aint no AI) with only the Rockland source, and their product came out eerily similar to mine, except that they included more sources. I knew about the Gordon Levitan source and that it was sub-par, and never got around to reading it. What I also knew is that this significant 19th-century rabbi had a lot to say about Zionism, which is how I first started looking into his bio. I had put the project aside though because I didn't have the time to research it, and imagined it would sit there indefinitely. So imagine my surprise when I saw that someone else wrote it. Now, I don't know how many times an article on this obscure subject was attempted during the 23 or so years of WP's existence, but two attempts within 6 months seems quite serendipitous. Anyway, the moment I noticed the draft and the link to the National Library of Israel newspaper article, which has a chock full of information on him written in Modern Hebrew—a language the subject seemingly recoiled from—I started tearing into it. StonyBrook _babble 09:14, 16 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240816091400","author":"StonyBrook","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-StonyBrook-20240816091400-Eliyahu_Chayim_(or_Chaim)_Meisel","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240816093600-StonyBrook-20240816091400"]}}-->

Hi @StonyBrook: that's all very peculiar, and I hadn't a clue about any of that! All I know is that the author Jimboson came to the AfC help desk to express their dissatisfaction about Draft:Eliyahu Chaim Meisel being declined, and it turned out they were soon after that blocked as a sock of Dag21902190, so I made a routine request for G5 speedy which Liz swiftly executed. Sorry if this resulted in your work being lost, but Liz will probably refund it for you if that's the case? Or maybe you still have your original somewhere safe, if this was only a copy? Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:36, 16 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240816093600","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240816093600-StonyBrook-20240816091400","replies":["c-StonyBrook-20240816123000-DoubleGrazing-20240816093600"]}}-->

Ah, as in Jimbo son (clever—who would really want to block that, right?) As for the copy, no worries: I've been around here long enough to know to save stuff like this (actually, saved it right when I noticed the G5 speedy diff). This one does require a deeper dive into the Hebrew sources, which are out there. The Ha-Tsfira obit already in the article is independent of the subject and does an appraisal of his impact on Jews in Eastern Europe and Palestine at the time. He was also politically savvy, because he had to deal regularly with the Monarch and others regarding the vicissitudes of officialdom's attitude towards his flock. As was mentioned in the AfC request Eliyahu Chayim Meisel [he] exists, along with Yiddish, Polish and Belarussian. The hewiki reference section yields old books, such as this one, which offer plenty of detail. There's another one that's not listed there from around 1900 that I started reading and then lost track of, which discusses his opinions. That's the one I really wanted to get into to get a feel for what this person was all about. So I guess my copy goes back on the shelf for now, but since the ball already did start rolling, I might come around to bolster it more. And when I think it's done, what do I do next, just recreate it as normal and hope for the best? StonyBrook _babble 12:30, 16 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240816123000","author":"StonyBrook","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-StonyBrook-20240816123000-DoubleGrazing-20240816093600","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240816124900-StonyBrook-20240816123000"]}}-->

@StonyBrook: okay, glad to hear you still have your copy. If you do get around to completing this, I'd say don't put it through AfC, just publish it directly and leave it for NPP to check it instead. That deletion and socking will throw up red flags, which could (not necessarily would, but could) cause issues at AfC. Good luck with it! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:49, 16 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240816124900","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240816124900-StonyBrook-20240816123000","replies":[]}}-->

@DoubleGrazing You asked me to go back to my main account and request for unblock but I can't login there again. It saying this account has been blocked from login in any Wikipedia. How can I request for the unblock request if I can login. How can I go about it Miplast (talk) 19:51, 16 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240816195100","author":"Miplast","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Miplast-20240816195100-Unlock_Issue","replies":[]}}-->

Stumbled upon your contributions and wondered why you aren't an admin. Has your opinion changed since this? :) 0xDeadbeef→∞ (talk to me) 04:59, 17 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240817045900","author":"0xDeadbeef","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-0xDeadbeef-20240817045900-RfA","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240817062800-0xDeadbeef-20240817045900","c-Timtrent-20240828095200-0xDeadbeef-20240817045900"],"displayName":"Deadbeef"}}-->

No change, sorry. But thanks for the thought, @0xDeadbeef. :) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:28, 17 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240817062800","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240817062800-0xDeadbeef-20240817045900","replies":["c-0xDeadbeef-20240827015600-DoubleGrazing-20240817062800"]}}-->

I'm back here again. After having seen some discussion at WT:RFA. Would you at least be open to giving Wikipedia:Administrator elections a try? I've seen your work at SPI. A quick glance at your contribs tells me you have also been doing NPP and AFC work. Your AfD stats look really good to me as well. 0xDeadbeef→∞ (talk to me) 01:56, 27 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240827015600","author":"0xDeadbeef","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-0xDeadbeef-20240827015600-DoubleGrazing-20240817062800","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240827105400-0xDeadbeef-20240827015600"],"displayName":"Deadbeef"}}-->

Hey @0xDeadbeef, nice to see you again. :)

Not that I'm dodging your question (!), but can I ask a counter-question instead? How urgently do we actually need more admins? Most of the time it seems to be taken axiomatically that we need more, but fairly recently when this was stated explicitly at an RfA, one admin (can't remember who) said that's not true at all.

The reason I ask is that if we really do have a shortage, and the admins that there are are overloaded with work, then I would feel guilty for not stepping up and helping out, especially as I tend to send quite a lot of work for admins. As much as I wouldn't want to pick up the mop, someone has to, and I would find it difficult to argue why I'm somehow exempt and don't need to chip in. Whereas if we don't have a problem in the first place, then I wouldn't feel like I'm shirking my duty by not volunteering.

Any thoughts on this? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:54, 27 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240827105400","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240827105400-0xDeadbeef-20240827015600","replies":["c-0xDeadbeef-20240827111600-DoubleGrazing-20240827105400","c-0xDeadbeef-20240828092900-DoubleGrazing-20240827105400"]}}-->

I tried to write a reply to this, but I think I need to sit on this for some more. If I don't write a reply today it will probably be tomorrow. 0xDeadbeef→∞ (talk to me) 11:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240827111600","author":"0xDeadbeef","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-0xDeadbeef-20240827111600-DoubleGrazing-20240827105400","replies":[],"displayName":"Deadbeef"}}-->

Alright, I'm back. We definitely do need more admins. There's a whole lot of things we need more admins to do at Category:Administrative backlog. I'll list a few that I consider significant: SPI needs more admins who can patrol and block socks/IPs based on the behavior evidence. Requests for Permissions needs more admins who can vet users, being able to deny requests with reasoning, and granting perms to users who satisfy the requirements. There is more than a hundred open requests for unblock that needs uninvolved admins to review.

That's just some of the areas I am personally more familiar with. I'm sure there are more, but you probably get the idea. As for someone suggesting that we don't need more admins, they'd probably say that if they don't really care about doing administrative things that should be done. (Though I'd be curious to know more about their reasoning. I'd want to hear their nuances and justification.)

Wikipedia definitely needs more admins (IMO) and it will be great if more experienced users run, but I can also understand why people don't want to. One of the worst thing about RfAs is that people are scrutinized, publicly. Having run into this huge negative part about RfA somewhat blindly and boldly, I do admit that it's sometimes better left untold. (so we'd get more people like me who don't go in expecting a realistic amount of negative effects on my mental health) But now we have elections, where it is much more chill. Questions definitely still contribute to the stress, but I think a private vote is much better.

There's also the point that getting the buttons will shift some or most of your work towards working with the buttons. I don't disagree with that but I just think that as long as you are contributing to Wikipedia in a way that you see fit, there's no problem with what things you'd be doing. 0xDeadbeef→∞ (talk to me) 09:29, 28 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828092900","author":"0xDeadbeef","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-0xDeadbeef-20240828092900-DoubleGrazing-20240827105400","replies":[],"displayName":"Deadbeef"}}-->

Really nice to see that you get asked to be an admin. If there is a shortage of admins do not let even that change your mind. Guilt is a poor reason to stand for permission for the key to the janitorial supplies cupboard. The only reason to apply is if and when you have a genuine wish to apply. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 09:52, 28 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828095200","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240828095200-0xDeadbeef-20240817045900","replies":["c-0xDeadbeef-20240828100000-Timtrent-20240828095200"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

I wanted to say that, but that somehow got lost when I drafted my reply above. I will echo that. I've changed my mindset while contributing to here and other projects. I used to feel quite guilty for not doing something I agreed to do, for not doing things I could have done, and for not doing things that urgently needed to be done. But really, we are all humans with things in our lives other than contributing to Wikipedia. It's sometimes unfortunate, but no one should really have to beat themselves up for it. 0xDeadbeef→∞ (talk to me) 10:00, 28 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828100000","author":"0xDeadbeef","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-0xDeadbeef-20240828100000-Timtrent-20240828095200","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240828102700-0xDeadbeef-20240828100000"],"displayName":"Deadbeef"}}-->

@0xDeadbeef Well said. I decided long ago that I have a total commitment not to be an admin. I did once stand for ArbCom, but a change in my personal life meant I had to withdraw. My time vanished. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 10:27, 28 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828102700","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240828102700-0xDeadbeef-20240828100000","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240828104200-Timtrent-20240828102700"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

Thanks for your thoughts, both; these are genuinely appreciated.

I am conflicted over this issue, and now if anything even more so. No, I don't want the mop, in any sense whatsoever. But neither do I want to mow the lawn, or load the dishwasher, yet I do, because I can't just expect others to do the chores while I eat cake and dilly-dally on Wikipedia. So call it guilt, call it a sense of duty, call it what you will, it's definitely a major factor in this.

I also feel that becoming an admin would change the nature of what I do here. I expect it would be a bit like giving up playing football, and becoming a football referee instead – it's still the same game, but your role in it is completely different.

And yet, at the same time, it probably wouldn't change one aspect which I would quite like to change. I mostly nowadays do either AfC or NPP work, which in turn often pushes me to SPI, AfD, etc., and I find all this quite 'negative' in nature, especially the interaction you get with others (being accused of all sorts of things, called names, etc., and generally just dealing with mostly unhappy people). I don't enjoy that (who would?), and sometimes fantasise about giving up all the reviewing etc. and just focusing on article creation again; doing something positive and constructive. I assume being an admin is much worse in this respect, and I don't really need the extra stress and aggro in my life.

But there is the guilt. Did I mention that already?

Maybe I should put myself forward, in the hope that others would point out all the reasons why I wouldn't be a good admin, dig up every mistake I've ever made here, and kill any prospect of ever getting the tools. Then I wouldn't have to umm and ahh about it, and could just move on. ;)

I will give it some (more) thought. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:42, 28 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828104200","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240828104200-Timtrent-20240828102700","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240828104900-DoubleGrazing-20240828104200"]}}-->

Why not become the first non admin to go all the way through an ArbCom election? I would still put myself forward had I the personal time available. I had intended to focus on true arbitration, rather than discipline, and be a catalyst for change.

I've learned to be able to deflect negatives by the use of militant and all pervasive politeness, even if I find that I am sometimes frustrated.

When I became frustrated I go a-hunting of improperly uploaded files on Commons and mostly get my nominations right there! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 10:49, 28 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828104900","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240828104900-DoubleGrazing-20240828104200","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240828111900-Timtrent-20240828104900"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

Ha! :))

You are polite. Firm but polite. Polite to a fault. Hey, maybe you should run for adminship! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:19, 28 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828111900","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240828111900-Timtrent-20240828104900","replies":["c-Timtrent-20240828112700-DoubleGrazing-20240828111900"]}}-->

I so hoped there was a 'brat' template! This will have to do

🌭

That was the Wurst I could find 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 11:27, 28 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828112700","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Timtrent-20240828112700-DoubleGrazing-20240828111900","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240828114100-Timtrent-20240828112700"],"displayName":"FiddleTimtrent"}}-->

Perfik, just in time for lunch. Thanks, d*de! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:41, 28 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828114100","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240828114100-Timtrent-20240828112700","replies":[]}}-->

• Cyberxperts (talk · contribs)
  • Draft:Wireless & Internet Service Providers Association of Pakistan (WISPAP) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Cyberxperts (talk) 15:33, 17 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240817153300","author":"Cyberxperts","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cyberxperts-20240817153300-Request_on_15:33:25,_17_August_2024_for_assistance_on_AfC_submission_by_Cyberxpe","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240817153700-Cyberxperts-20240817153300"]}}-->

How can I help you, @Cyberxperts? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:37, 17 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240817153700","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240817153700-Cyberxperts-20240817153300","replies":["c-Cyberxperts-20240817154600-DoubleGrazing-20240817153700"]}}-->

Yes please. I tried improving quality of page of association called wispap. Please check and let me know if fine for publishing Cyberxperts (talk) 15:46, 17 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240817154600","author":"Cyberxperts","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Cyberxperts-20240817154600-DoubleGrazing-20240817153700","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240817154900-Cyberxperts-20240817154600"]}}-->

@Cyberxperts: if you feel that you've sufficiently addressed the reasons for the earlier decline, then resubmit the draft and you will get another review when a reviewer gets around to assessing it. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:49, 17 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240817154900","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240817154900-Cyberxperts-20240817154600","replies":["c-Cyberxperts-20240817155100-DoubleGrazing-20240817154900"]}}-->

The re submit option isnt showing but i updated draft Cyberxperts (talk) 15:51, 17 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240817155100","author":"Cyberxperts","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Cyberxperts-20240817155100-DoubleGrazing-20240817154900","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240817155200-Cyberxperts-20240817155100"]}}-->

@Cyberxperts: it wasn't there because you had removed the earlier decline notice, where the resubmit button is. I've restored it. Please don't remove these notices, they must remain there until the draft is accepted. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:52, 17 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240817155200","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240817155200-Cyberxperts-20240817155100","replies":["c-Cyberxperts-20240817155700-DoubleGrazing-20240817155200"]}}-->

Ok shall i resubmit it or has it been re checked. I am not sure what it actually requires. All information is being collected and available on web. And its NGO. No promotion. Give some example if you thing its still not upto the mark Cyberxperts (talk) 15:57, 17 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240817155700","author":"Cyberxperts","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Cyberxperts-20240817155700-DoubleGrazing-20240817155200","replies":[]}}-->

My submission was declined because of unreliable sources. Why FIBA's own website, the players teams website and Turkish Basketball Federations own website is considered unreliable? What else could I use as a source? The player also plays with a team which all of its players has its own wikipedia page. I would like to resubmit my submission. Egeefecik35 (talk) 11:44, 18 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240818114400","author":"Egeefecik35","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Egeefecik35-20240818114400-Submission_denied","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240818115200-Egeefecik35-20240818114400"]}}-->

@Egeefecik35: no, it wasn't declined because of unreliable sources, as such. I declined it because of two things:

1. The sources do not establish notability. According to the general notability guideline WP:GNG, we need to see significant coverage of the subject in multiple secondary sources that are reliable and independent (of each other, and of the subject). This draft cites only primary sources.
2. The referencing does not adequately support the information (it may be that the cited sources do provide all that info, in which case more citations are needed, as it's not clear where each piece of information comes from).

HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:52, 18 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240818115200","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240818115200-Egeefecik35-20240818114400","replies":["c-Egeefecik35-20240818121300-DoubleGrazing-20240818115200"]}}-->

i added more citations Egeefecik35 (talk) 12:13, 18 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240818121300","author":"Egeefecik35","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Egeefecik35-20240818121300-DoubleGrazing-20240818115200","replies":[]}}-->

Sir I have written an article on Shankaracharya of Jyotish Peeth Swami Avimukteshwaranand Saraswati.It was made public on Wikipedia then automatically got removed. He is the topmost saint of hindu religion.But again and again his article is getting denied by Wikipedia kindly look into it. Shankaracharyas are the most dignitary saints in Hindu religion and there is no article regarding Jyotish peeth Shankaracharya swami avimukteshwaranand saraseati kindly look into it and make this article public on wikipedia in interest of all hindus and Indians. Saksham Singh Yogi (talk) 18:14, 18 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240818181400","author":"Saksham Singh Yogi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Saksham_Singh_Yogi-20240818181400-Article_on_Swami_Avimukteshwaranand_Saraswati_(Current_Jyotish_Peeth_Shankaracha","replies":[]}}-->

Hi DoubleGrazing, if you have time could you review my draft? Thanks Nobody (talk) 06:25, 20 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240820062500","author":"1AmNobody24","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-1AmNobody24-20240820062500-Draft:Alpine_Entomology","replies":[],"displayName":"Nobody"}}-->

Hi DoubleGrazing,im new to making a wikipedia page and saw the things i need to improve,i just wanna as can i countinue improving where i left or i will just have to start from scratch? Oleg Bozovic (talk) 11:25, 21 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240821112500","author":"Oleg Bozovic","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Oleg_Bozovic-20240821112500-Draft:City_Kvart","replies":["c-DoubleGrazing-20240821120800-Oleg_Bozovic-20240821112500"]}}-->

Hi @Oleg Bozovic: you're welcome to continue developing that draft, and resubmit for another review. In fact, when a draft is declined, which is what I've done here, this very much means that there is potential for it to be accepted, but it has some issues which need to be addressed first. (This is different from 'rejected', which means that the draft is unsuitable to be published, and cannot be submitted again.) HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:08, 21 August 2024 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240821120800","author":"DoubleGrazing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DoubleGrazing-20240821120800-Oleg_Bozovic-20240821112500","replies":[]}}-->