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Hello

Erm... Hello! Whoever you are! Julianhall (talk) 07:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-02-15T07:00:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Julianhall-2008-02-15T07:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-Jeff79-2008-04-27T18:40:00.000Z-Julianhall-2008-02-15T07:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

• G'day mate. If you're keen come and join in at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league.--Jeff79 (talk) 18:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-04-27T18:40:00.000Z","author":"Jeff79","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jeff79-2008-04-27T18:40:00.000Z-Julianhall-2008-02-15T07:00:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

As ridiculous as it may sound, sports fixtures are subject to copyright in the UK, and this has been upheld in court (The Football League Limited v Littlewoods Pools Ltd, 1959). They are thus incompatible with Wikipedia's GFDL licensing. Now I'd like to hope that the rugby authorities have a more sensible approach than the football authorities, but in the case of football the league charge £9,000 per season for the privilege of publishing fixtures, and are notoriously litigious when it comes to enforcing it. However, from a quick search I found [1] (word doc link) which starts "These fixtures are the copyright of Super League (Europe) Ltd, Registered Office, Red Hall, Red Hall Lane, Leeds, LS17 8NB and must NOT be reproduced in whole or in part except by written consent of the RFL".

While fixtures are copyrighted, results are not eligible for copyright, as they are historical fact. Further reading at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Archive_20#Fixtures. Oldelpaso (talk) 22:34, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-01-25T22:34:00.000Z","author":"Oldelpaso","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Oldelpaso-2009-01-25T22:34:00.000Z-Fixture_copyrights","replies":[]}}-->

A tag has been placed on Stuart Cummings (rugby league) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the article or have a copy emailed to you. -Zeus-^u_c 22:05, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-02-11T22:05:00.000Z","author":"-Zeus-","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c--Zeus--2009-02-11T22:05:00.000Z-Speedy_deletion_of_Stuart_Cummings_(rugby_league)","replies":[],"displayName":"u"}}-->

Please see User_talk:Jeff79#Removal_of_Dream_Team_from_Super_League_XIII.--Jeff79 (talk) 12:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-02-24T12:35:00.000Z","author":"Jeff79","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jeff79-2009-02-24T12:35:00.000Z-Removal_of_Dream_Team","replies":[]}}-->

WP:RL seems to have some confusion about naming articles, since there appears to be two formats for articles about season results:

• "<year> <competition> season results" : 2008 Super League season results
• "<competition> <numeral> results" : Super League XIV Results

I'm planning to tidy up 2008's page by merging the play-offs page into the results page. As it is currently, this would result in a double redirect. I'm also planning to do a results page to accompany every SL season so far, so we need an agreed format for all SL season results pages. The Aussie contributors are far ahead of us in this field, and I reckon we should just follow their example, which I've made bold in the list above. Agreed? GW(talk) 23:23, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-03-06T23:23:00.000Z","author":"Ginger Warrior","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ginger_Warrior-2009-03-06T23:23:00.000Z-Redirecting_problem","replies":["c-Julianhall-2009-03-07T15:47:00.000Z-Ginger_Warrior-2009-03-06T23:23:00.000Z"],"displayName":"GW"}}-->

I don't think that the actual page name is too important, so certainly i'd be happy with us following the '2009 Super League results' format. I also agree that the playoffs article should be merged into the main results page. Julianhall (talk) 15:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-03-07T15:47:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Julianhall-2009-03-07T15:47:00.000Z-Ginger_Warrior-2009-03-06T23:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ginger_Warrior-2009-03-07T21:50:00.000Z-Julianhall-2009-03-07T15:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

Cheers. It's just that, since we edit the articles, we know the names of them and we know how to navigate our way around. It's not so easy if you're a general reader and the names seem to go all over the place. I'll get to work on it. GW(talk) 21:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-03-07T21:50:00.000Z","author":"Ginger Warrior","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Ginger_Warrior-2009-03-07T21:50:00.000Z-Julianhall-2009-03-07T15:47:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"GW"}}-->

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Andrew Jarrett, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process because of the following concern:

Unreferenced, no context, stub, has not played first grade failing rules 2 on rugby league notability guidelines. Also fails rule 9 in that his notability seems to be established based on the notability of the team.

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Hi Julianhall

Do you have a source that confirms the higher QPO loser plays the lower EPO winner?

The source which the article refers to says the matchups are as follows:

Preliminary Semi Final 1

QPO 1 Loser V EPO 1 Winner

Preliminary Semi Final 2

QPO 2 Loser V EPO 2 Winner

--Nitsansh (talk) 22:56, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-19T22:56:00.000Z","author":"Nitsansh","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Nitsansh-2009-09-19T22:56:00.000Z-Super_League_playoffs","replies":["c-Julianhall-2009-09-20T10:11:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-19T22:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yep, it's not explained, but this article on the Super League website clearly shows that Huddersfield (i.e. the highest-ranked QPO loser) will play Catalans (i.e. the lowest-ranked EPO winner). Julianhall (talk) 10:11, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-20T10:11:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Julianhall-2009-09-20T10:11:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-19T22:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T13:28:00.000Z-Julianhall-2009-09-20T10:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks. I found this source later last night and ammended the references to this one.--Nitsansh (talk) 13:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-20T13:28:00.000Z","author":"Nitsansh","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T13:28:00.000Z-Julianhall-2009-09-20T10:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Why are we not allowed to publish upcoming fixtures? are they protected by copyright laws?--Nitsansh (talk) 21:17, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-20T21:17:00.000Z","author":"Nitsansh","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T21:17:00.000Z-Fixtures","replies":["c-Julianhall-2009-09-20T21:23:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T21:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

Exactly! check out this section further up this very page where i was told about it myself earlier this year. Julianhall (talk) 21:23, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-20T21:23:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Julianhall-2009-09-20T21:23:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T21:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T22:30:00.000Z-Julianhall-2009-09-20T21:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

Exactly which sports/leagues have copyright of their fixtures?--Nitsansh (talk) 22:30, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-20T22:30:00.000Z","author":"Nitsansh","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T22:30:00.000Z-Julianhall-2009-09-20T21:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-Dale_Arnett-2009-09-20T22:52:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T22:30:00.000Z","c-Dale_Arnett-2009-09-20T23:08:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T22:30:00.000Z","c-Julianhall-2009-09-21T11:12:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T22:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

There's another issue to consider. Wikipedia is hosted on servers in the U.S., which means that the most pertinent copyright law is American. While sports leagues are free to copyright their fixture lists, listing a small subset of fixtures (say, one week of the season, or possibly the playoffs) would probably fall under the fair use doctrine of U.S. copyright law. — Dale Arnett (talk) 22:52, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-20T22:52:00.000Z","author":"Dale Arnett","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Dale_Arnett-2009-09-20T22:52:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T22:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Additional comment: Fair use is a defense, not a blanket license to copy. — Dale Arnett (talk) 23:08, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-20T23:08:00.000Z","author":"Dale Arnett","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Dale_Arnett-2009-09-20T23:08:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T22:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Which sports and leagues hold copyright, i do not know. I do know that Super League Europe hold copyright of their fixtrures, therefore we shouldn't publish them as per the comments above. Julianhall (talk) 11:12, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-21T11:12:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Julianhall-2009-09-21T11:12:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-20T22:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ginger_Warrior-2009-09-21T11:39:00.000Z-Julianhall-2009-09-21T11:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

Instead of arguing over copyright law, which is complex enough without the debate over whether the UK/US/Fair use laws apply (and to the best of my knowledge none of us are qualified to speak of such things anyway), I think it's wiser to just play safe and state simply that, "Hull KR will face Wigan in the second phase of the play-offs" or something along those lines. GW(talk) 11:39, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-21T11:39:00.000Z","author":"Ginger Warrior","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Ginger_Warrior-2009-09-21T11:39:00.000Z-Julianhall-2009-09-21T11:12:00.000Z","replies":["c-Julianhall-2009-09-21T12:10:00.000Z-Ginger_Warrior-2009-09-21T11:39:00.000Z"],"displayName":"GW"}}-->

I agree with your comments about copyright law, definitely better to play it safe. As far as your other comment is concerned, i don't think we even need to state who will play who. This is, at the end of the day, an encyclopaedia, and encyclopaedias don't publish fixtures. Plus, this is a results page, not a fixtures page. Finally, the second round of games will be complete in a week's time, and the playoffs all finished in three weeks. If people are looking for fixtures, i'm sure that they will look at other sites before this one. Julianhall (talk) 12:10, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-21T12:10:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Julianhall-2009-09-21T12:10:00.000Z-Ginger_Warrior-2009-09-21T11:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Nitsansh-2009-09-21T18:18:00.000Z-Julianhall-2009-09-21T12:10:00.000Z"]}}-->

There are numerous pages about sport events that list the schedule of matches/competitions. I see no reason to assume by default that all these are copyrighted. It seems to me that only UK domestic leagues have copyright of their fixtures.--Nitsansh (talk) 18:18, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-21T18:18:00.000Z","author":"Nitsansh","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Nitsansh-2009-09-21T18:18:00.000Z-Julianhall-2009-09-21T12:10:00.000Z","replies":["c-Julianhall-2009-09-21T18:43:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-21T18:18:00.000Z"]}}-->

Nor do i. All i stated was that Super League Europe fixtures are copyrighted, which is what i was told earlier this year, further up this very page. You are more than welcome to make whatever assumptions you see fit to make. I am simply stating that, unless anyone who understands copyright law well can explain otherwise, it is almost certainly safer to err on the side of caution and not publish fixtures. Also, i would remind you that just because there are lists of fixtures elsewhere on Wikipedia, it does not necessarily mean that they are allowed to be displayed. Can we draw a line under this now? I think that we can all agree that Super League Europe fixtures are under copyright and shouldn't be published here, can't we? Julianhall (talk) 18:43, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-21T18:43:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Julianhall-2009-09-21T18:43:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-21T18:18:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Is it OK to publish the dates and rounds only without the teams involved? See this and this--Nitsansh (talk) 04:24, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-23T04:24:00.000Z","author":"Nitsansh","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Nitsansh-2009-09-23T04:24:00.000Z-Fixtures","replies":["c-Julianhall-2009-09-23T10:44:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-23T04:24:00.000Z","c-Julianhall-2009-09-23T11:17:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-23T04:24:00.000Z"]}}-->

I can only really reiterate what i have already said, i.e. that this isn't my field of expertise, and that if we're unsure, it's better to err on the side of caution. If i was forced to choose, i would guess that it is OK, but i must stress that's my assumption and that as there is doubt, i'd probably not even publish that. Maybe we could contact the RFL about this since it's rumbling on so much? Maybe we should discuss it on WP:RL? Does anyone know if there is any sort of precedent for Wikipedia doing this sort of thing? Julianhall (talk) 10:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-23T10:44:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Julianhall-2009-09-23T10:44:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-23T04:24:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Section added to the WP:RL talk page here. Julianhall (talk) 11:17, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-23T11:17:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Julianhall-2009-09-23T11:17:00.000Z-Nitsansh-2009-09-23T04:24:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I have create a page for episodes of chelsea lately.Now I need help improving so can you help me and and send this measseage to other users.PAGE:List of Chelsea Lately episodes.--Anesleyp (talk) 03:28, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-03T03:28:00.000Z","author":"Anesleyp","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Anesleyp-2010-01-03T03:28:00.000Z-List_of_chelsea_lately_episodes","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for the assistance in setting up the deletion template, the first person to actually take the time to help out a new member. Appreciated. Aidyzzle (talk) 01:46, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-06-07T01:46:00.000Z","author":"Aidyzzle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aidyzzle-2011-06-07T01:46:00.000Z-Thanks","replies":[]}}-->

Categorization It's in Category:1991 debut albums, which is a subcategory of Category:Debut albums. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 14:34, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-01-03T14:34:00.000Z","author":"Koavf","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Koavf-2012-01-03T14:34:00.000Z-Chicken_Rhythms","replies":[],"displayName":"Justin (koavf)"}}-->

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A fact I'm fully aware of. However, Wikipedia rules ARE Wikipedia rules. I suggest you remember that. Julianhall (talk) 10:00, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-04-04T10:00:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Julianhall-2014-04-04T10:00:00.000Z-The_Inspiral_Carpets_are_not_the_Gaslight_Anthem","replies":[]}}-->

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Fixed. Thanks. Julianhall (talk) 11:01, 16 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-09-16T11:01:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Julianhall-2014-09-16T11:01:00.000Z-DPL_bot-2014-09-16T09:00:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi,
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I deliberately modified this to be a link to a disambiguation, as i feel it's more appropriate. The initial link was to a less-relevant page, and this now allows the user to select between passing in Rugby League, and in Rugby Union which are separate articles, but equally relevant. Julianhall (talk) 12:04, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-03-15T12:04:00.000Z","author":"Julianhall","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Julianhall-2016-03-15T12:04:00.000Z-DPL_bot-2016-03-15T10:57:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Hello there, I have been asked by another member of WPRL to widen the conversation on "Flags in European current templates", in the hope to gain a wider consensus. I imagine that this message may well never be read, dismissed, see me lose support, potentially gain some or take the discussion forwards. Please do take the time to read the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Rugby_league#Flags_in_squad_templates if you can, but the crux of my position is that the flags are prevalent elsewhere, are consistent with usage by the MOS, and their implementation for their rugby league national squad/team or representative nationality, is in line with their intended purpose. The crux of the remove side would be an IP editor may interpret a flag as indication of birth, give too much credence to the nation, and the decision was made previously. To remove them from all rugby league templates when there is a limited conversation would seem more than a little unfair I would say, hence the attempt to reach out. I'm quite happy to voted down, but would appreciate a few more voices to the discussion, else it would seem quite wrong to move from the majority into the minority.Fleets (talk) 19:57, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-07-13T19:57:00.000Z","author":"Fleets","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fleets-2017-07-13T19:57:00.000Z-Flags_in_European_current_templates","replies":[]}}-->

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Hello, I'm Doniago. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, (Don't Fear) The Reaper, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Please review WP:SONGCOVER as well. DonIago (talk) 17:00, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-24T17:00:00.000Z","author":"Doniago","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Doniago-2020-09-24T17:00:00.000Z-September_2020","replies":["c-Binksternet-2020-09-25T01:12:00.000Z-Doniago-2020-09-24T17:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

Discogs is not reliable because they allow users to change the information. They are listed at WP:ALBUMAVOID. Binksternet (talk) 01:12, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-25T01:12:00.000Z","author":"Binksternet","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Binksternet-2020-09-25T01:12:00.000Z-Doniago-2020-09-24T17:00:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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