Talk:Yukon Gold potato

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Requested move 3 October 2017

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as proposed. Consensus is clear. bd2412 T 14:12, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-17T14:12:00.000Z","author":"BD2412","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BD2412-2017-10-17T14:12:00.000Z-Requested_move_3_October_2017","replies":[]}}-->

Yukon Gold (potato) → Yukon Gold potato
Almond (potato) → Almond potato
Alturas (potato) → Alturas potato
Amandine (potato) → Amandine potato
Anya (potato) → Anya potato
Atlantic (potato) → Atlantic potato
Bamberg (potato) → Bamberg potato
Bloomer (potato) → Bloomer potato
British Queen (potato) → British Queen potato
Butte (potato) → Butte potato
Champion (potato) → Champion potato
Désirée (potato) → Désirée potato
Gala (potato) → Gala potato
Golden Wonder (potato) → Golden Wonder potato
Home Guard (potato) → Home Guard potato
Kennebec (potato) → Kennebec potato
King Edward (potato) → King Edward potato
Laura (potato) → Laura potato
Lenape (potato) → Lenape potato
Marcy (potato) → Marcy potato
Melody (potato) → Melody potato
Mizen (potato) → Mizen potato
Ozette (potato) → Ozette potato
Ratte (potato) → Ratte potato
Red Gold (potato) → Red Gold potato
Rooster (potato) → Rooster potato
Stobrawa (potato) → Stobrawa potato
Superior (potato) → Superior potato
Vivaldi (potato) → Vivaldi potato
Yellow Finn (potato) → Yellow Finn potato
Agata (potato) → Agata potato

– Per WP:NATURALDIS policy (part of WP:AT) and WP:DISAMBIG, we choose natural over parenthetic disambiguation when natural is available. Also per WP:CONSISTENCY, both with other disambiguated potato articles and with other breed articles (thousands of them). These all being cultivars (plant breeds), several years of breed RMs – consistently in favor of natural disambiguation – are strong precedent. NB: Cultivar names are conventionally capitalized, as codified in the ICNCP; this does not extend to a disambiguating word added to the end for clarity. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ< 04:03, 3 October 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Anarchyte (work | talk) 12:26, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","author":"SMcCandlish","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z-Requested_move_3_October_2017","replies":["c-Anthony_Appleyard-2017-10-03T05:20:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","c-Peter_coxhead-2017-10-03T09:24:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","c-Arms_&_Hearts-2017-10-03T20:01:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","c-Roman_Spinner-2017-10-04T02:59:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","c-GeeBee60-2017-10-07T21:24:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","c-GeeBee60-2017-10-12T16:49:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","c-BarrelProof-2017-10-08T17:57:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","c-Anarchyte-2017-10-10T12:26:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","c-Red_Slash-2017-10-10T16:10:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","c-Huwmanbeing-2017-10-10T17:29:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","c-Dicklyon-2017-10-16T04:21:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

With most names listed here, OK. But an ambiguity: "Superior potato" can also mean "any potato which is [claimed to be] superior". Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:20, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-03T05:20:00.000Z","author":"Anthony Appleyard","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Anthony_Appleyard-2017-10-03T05:20:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
I agree that the use of parentheses should be avoided. I would prefer the correct names to be used, namely "Potato 'Yukon Gold'", etc. This also avoids the problem Anthony Appleyard identified. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:24, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-03T09:24:00.000Z","author":"Peter coxhead","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peter_coxhead-2017-10-03T09:24:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-SMcCandlish-2017-10-04T00:38:00.000Z-Peter_coxhead-2017-10-03T09:24:00.000Z"]}}-->
Hmm, but we don't even have redirects from things like Potato 'Yukon Gold', so the demand (reader expectation) seems to be low, at least for Category:Food plant cultivars. I.e., that version isn't the WP:COMMONNAME. (It might be Category:Ornamental plant cultivars, mostly covered in specialist publications. At least, botantical editors here have consistently applied Cryptanthus 'Koning' style to them. I'll constrain any more RMs of this sort to food plants.) People may some day try to make a WP:CONSISTENCY and WP:JARGON case against the ornamental titles, but they are consistent within the category, and we're also stably using scientific names for plant species, so it seems unlikely, and unlikely to succeed.) We probably should have those Potato 'Yukon Gold' redirs, but that'll be a lot of work. I've been afraid to look and see how many cultivar articles we have. ;-) — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ< 00:38, 4 October 2017 (UTC), revised — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ< 03:46, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-04T00:38:00.000Z","author":"SMcCandlish","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SMcCandlish-2017-10-04T00:38:00.000Z-Peter_coxhead-2017-10-03T09:24:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Support. I don't think the ambiguity identified by Anthony Appleyard is especially likely to cause confusion – presumably readers are capable of distinguishing between a value judgement in Wikipedia's voice and a value judgement in the name of the thing being discussed, or we would have more people complaining about our failure to include their favourite song in The Best of Pink Floyd, noting that The World's Greatest Tag Team were actually mediocre, etc. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 20:01, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-03T20:01:00.000Z","author":"Arms & Hearts","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Arms_&_Hearts-2017-10-03T20:01:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-SMcCandlish-2017-10-04T00:38:00.000Z-Arms_&_Hearts-2017-10-03T20:01:00.000Z"]}}-->
That, and the lead sentence makes it clear that 'Superior' is the cultivar name. Also, "potatoes that are [claimed to be] superior" isn't a valid encyclopedia topic, so it's not something we'd disambiguate for. Lots of other cases: [1],[2],[3]. They're all either a) names that contain/are the superlative word (as is the case here); b) "words as words treatment of terms of art that use a superlative (e.g. "best practice" – it's the real world that says whether something is one, not WP); or c) a different use of the word (e.g. "superior" in an organizational hierarchy sense). The only exception I remember seeing is List of best Major League Baseball season win-loss records which is a bit iffy, but perhaps defensible in that it's 100% provable, objective mathematics (and we had an RfC a few years ago against the jargon term "winningest") — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ< 00:38, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-04T00:38:00.000Z","author":"SMcCandlish","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SMcCandlish-2017-10-04T00:38:00.000Z-Arms_&_Hearts-2017-10-03T20:01:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Support per convincingly-argued nomination. Parenthetical qualifiers should be used sparingly when a qualifier such as Yukon Gold (potato) is intended for use in that exact form, rather than for being piped as Yukon Gold (potato)|Yukon Gold in the manner of Yukon Gold (1952 film)|Yukon Gold or Yukon Gold (TV series)|Yukon Gold. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 02:59, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-04T02:59:00.000Z","author":"Roman Spinner","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Roman_Spinner-2017-10-04T02:59:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u2014Roman Spinner"}}-->
Disagree Potato 'Yukon Gold' etc. is my preferred choice, reflecting the naming practices found beyond WP -- vs the choices here being discussed ("parentheses" and "natural"). See International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants. Yes it is a lot of work, but so is removing all the parenthesis, and at least the 'single-quote' way you have a scientifically respectable product. GeeBee60 (talk) 21:24, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-07T21:24:00.000Z","author":"GeeBee60","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-GeeBee60-2017-10-07T21:24:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I'm not going Edit War on this, (choose the hill you want to die on), but I'm not convinced that the rationale that it is a lot of work and lay folk don't care is necessarily a valid argument. Way back when, I didn't want to learn scientific nomenclature. But I did and am grateful for it. Same for varietal names -- the correct name is Potato 'Yukon Gold' (etc.). But, do what you want, I've commented twice. GeeBee60 (talk) 16:49, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-12T16:49:00.000Z","author":"GeeBee60","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-GeeBee60-2017-10-12T16:49:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Support per WP:NATURALDIS. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:57, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-08T17:57:00.000Z","author":"BarrelProof","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-BarrelProof-2017-10-08T17:57:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Relisting comment: I feel like a consensus is starting to brew, but there's some contention as to whether it should go to "Potato 'x'" or "x potato". I believe another week will help settle the dirt. Anarchyte (work | talk) 12:26, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-10T12:26:00.000Z","author":"Anarchyte","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Anarchyte-2017-10-10T12:26:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Support, no question. I'd also support removing parenthesis where possible. Red Slash 16:10, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-10T16:10:00.000Z","author":"Red Slash","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Red_Slash-2017-10-10T16:10:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Red"}}-->
Support per the nominator's rationale. ╠╣uw [talk] 17:29, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-10T17:29:00.000Z","author":"Huwmanbeing","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Huwmanbeing-2017-10-10T17:29:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u2560\u2563uw"}}-->
Support – X potato seems right for WP, GeeBee60's cogent comments notwithstanding. Dicklyon (talk) 04:21, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-10-16T04:21:00.000Z","author":"Dicklyon","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dicklyon-2017-10-16T04:21:00.000Z-SMcCandlish-2017-10-03T04:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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"...and a 'Norgleam' potato native to North Dakota."

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Potatoes are not native to so-called North Dakota. Ugh. 142.189.96.88 (talk) 01:48, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20220927014800","author":"142.189.96.88","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-142.189.96.88-20220927014800-\"...and_a_'Norgleam'_potato_native_to_North_Dakota.\"","replies":[]}}-->