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Does anyone know where the full name Robert Everett McGraw Jr comes from? I can't find any source outside of wikipedia that lists this name. 2A00:23C6:2202:4C01:4050:E6B7:D611:691A (talk) 12:18, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221014121800","author":"2A00:23C6:2202:4C01:4050:E6B7:D611:691A","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-2A00:23C6:2202:4C01:4050:E6B7:D611:691A-20221014121800-Citation_for_full_name?","replies":[]}}-->

There seems to be no other references online to this character apart from this Wikipedia page 2A02:C7C:BEB4:1A00:7C6B:941B:278B:1E6 (talk) 22:08, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230502220800","author":"2A02:C7C:BEB4:1A00:7C6B:941B:278B:1E6","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-2A02:C7C:BEB4:1A00:7C6B:941B:278B:1E6-20230502220800-Dingle_the_Shingler?","replies":[]}}-->

I think the story about the character having the number of fingers changed is an urban myth and should be removed.

There's only one source for it, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/720419.stm which has no further sourcing itself, no quotes from the producers for instance; it does have a quote from a Japanese journalist named as Chika Miyatake who says it would not be necessary.

Arguments include, but are not limited to:

• The show is for kids. Kids don't know about organised crime
• As Miyatake says, Japanese parents don't police their kids’ media consumption the way western parents do — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ambrosechapel (talk • contribs) 23:26, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240129232600","author":"Ambrosechapel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ambrosechapel-20240129232600-\u201cYakuza\u201d_story","replies":[]}}-->
• Adult Japanese people are able to distinguish kids cartoons from reality
• Hundreds of other western animated shows shown in Japan also have three fingered characters
• Yakuza members normally only cut off *part* of one finger, whereas Bob The Builder (and Postman Pat, of whom this story is also told) have perfectly whole unmutilated hands with three fingers
• Nobody is going to re-animate or digitally (!) edit the shows themselves, that would cost millions
• Even if the BBC story is only meant to refer to promotional material like DVD cases, five minutes with Google images will show you that Japanese Bob The Builder DVDs show him with his normal hands

I think we've been the victims of a rather tasteless, mildly racist joke/publicity stunt at the expense of the Japanese people all these years. Ambrosechapel (talk) 06:01, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240129060100","author":"Ambrosechapel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ambrosechapel-20240129060100-\u201cYakuza\u201d_story","replies":["c-Isaidnoway-20240130091300-Ambrosechapel-20240129060100"]}}-->

Ambrosechapel - I can assure you it is not a rather tasteless, mildly racist joke/publicity stunt. It has been widely reported:

• However, it’s important to point out that Japanese characters usually have all five fingers, and there are different reasons for that: an aversion towards number four due to its similar pronunciation with the word for “death”, the four fingers are considered an offensive reference to the burakumin caste, and the Yakuza tradition of cutting a finger off as punishment. Screen Rant
• Japanese anime characters generally do feature hands with five fingers. That includes everything from superstition to Yakuza tradition. And ChannelFrederator explains how an ancient Japanese caste system still has a long-lasting impact on animation in Japan today, one that’s even caused Disney to pay retribution to lobbyist groups to avoid controversy over their four-fingered characters. The A.V. Club
• Addressing Japanese animation, he suggested that its tendency to include five-digited characters in anime series and films is to do with the cultural superstition that the number “four” can sound similar to the Japanese word for “death” and is therefore unlucky. The Independent
• Why Crash Bandicoot Has An Extra Finger In Japan The Gamer
• Orbaugh, Sharalyn (2007). Japanese Fiction of the Allied Occupation: Vision, Embodiment, Identity. BRILL. ISBN 978-90-04-15546-6. Japanes cartoon characters always have five fingers.
• Hands with Four Digits : An Issue in the Rating and Censorship of Video Games in Japan?

I don't care if it is in the article or not, I just didn't think it was fair to imply that the editor's motive behind adding the content in the first place had anything to do with being a hoax or "mildly racist". Isaidnoway (talk) 09:13, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240130091300","author":"Isaidnoway","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Isaidnoway-20240130091300-Ambrosechapel-20240129060100","replies":["c-Ambrosechapel-20240201003800-Isaidnoway-20240130091300"]}}-->

For the record I didn't say the "hoax or mildly racist myth" was the responsibility of Wikipedia editor who added it. That would be the person who made up the story or reported on it for the BBC without questioning it.

> It has been widely reported

Not by reputable sources. ChannelFrederator is not a reputable source and doesn't cite any actual sources.

The Japanese animé examples cited are a completely different, more realistic style of animation. The Simpsons is very different to something like Naruto and the Japanese style renders not only hands and fingers, but all other aspects of the human figure, more faithfully.

The explanations about four fingers being disliked are, according to sources you quote, multiple:

• four means death
• four fingered people are associated with the Burakumin
• four fingered people are associated with the Yakuza

they can't all be the reason. Collecting three different conflicting explanations for something doesn't improve the argument, quite the opposite.

The only proper source cited is the Orbaugh book, but it doesn't have any footnote, source or cite that I can see. I will follow up on that.

The claim that Disney paid "retribution" [clearly not the right word] to Burakumin lobbyist groups is an extraordinary claim which should be backed up by extraordinary proof.

All that aside, the key claim that Bob The Builder has five fingers in Japan remains completely incorrect, unsourced and unfounded. Ambrosechapel (talk) 00:38, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240201003800","author":"Ambrosechapel","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Ambrosechapel-20240201003800-Isaidnoway-20240130091300","replies":[]}}-->