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California Low‑importance

	California portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia articles
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Wildfire Low‑importance

	August 2020 California lightning wildfires is part of WikiProject Wildfire, which collaborates on wildfire-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.WildfireWikipedia:WikiProject WildfireTemplate:WikiProject WildfireWildfire articles
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Disaster management Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disaster management, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Disaster management on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Disaster managementWikipedia:WikiProject Disaster managementTemplate:WikiProject Disaster managementDisaster management articles
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Merge

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Nominator self-close. After a page naming decided from this discussion, there will be no more rational in merging this article.~ Destroyeraa🌀 19:10, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-10T19:10:00.000Z","author":"Destroyeraa","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T19:10:00.000Z-Merge","replies":[],"displayName":"\ud83c\udf00"}}-->

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I'd like to merge this article with a new article I created, since there has been an incentive to merge the collective articles about California, Oregon, and Washington, into one single article. The August-September article was requested by @Cyclonebiskit: as a collective article of all the fires. It will most likely take information or somewhat replace the 2020 Oregon wildfires and 2020 Washington wildfires articles, as those are shorter and part of the whole 2020 west coast wildfire disasters. The current articles about the fires in California are mostly very stubbish and in violation of WP:CFORK. See WP:ITN/C#Ongoing:2020 California wildfires for a lengthy discussion regarding the rationale for this merge. Thanks.~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:20, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-10T14:20:00.000Z","author":"Destroyeraa","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T14:20:00.000Z-Merge","replies":["c-LightandDark2000-2020-09-10T16:37:00.000Z-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T14:20:00.000Z","c-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-10T18:33:00.000Z-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T14:20:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\ud83c\udf00"}}-->

Oppose – The August 2020 California lightning wildfires article is meant only for the specific cluster of California fires that were started by thunderstorms in August 2020, mostly by moisture from Tropical Storm Fausto. Additionally, the lighting fires in California appear to have no relation to the other fires burning across the Western US, other than the fact that a handful of the largest lightning fires in California are concurrently burning with the fires in the other western states. It is fine to have a larger article describing the overall wildfires in August and September over the Western US, but we need a specific article focusing on the August 2020 lightning fires in California, given their notability. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 16:37, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-10T16:37:00.000Z","author":"LightandDark2000","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-LightandDark2000-2020-09-10T16:37:00.000Z-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T14:20:00.000Z","replies":["c-LightandDark2000-2020-09-10T17:12:00.000Z-LightandDark2000-2020-09-10T16:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

By the way, the merger target, August–September 2020 Western United States wildfires barely meets quality standards as it is. Most of the information in the infobox appears to have been copied over from the 2020 California wildfires article. They need to be changed to reflect the actual stats for the August-September fires in the Western US, and the article needs to be expanded accordingly. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 17:12, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-10T17:12:00.000Z","author":"LightandDark2000","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-LightandDark2000-2020-09-10T17:12:00.000Z-LightandDark2000-2020-09-10T16:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T18:00:00.000Z-LightandDark2000-2020-09-10T17:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

@LightandDark2000: I know, but I don't know where to get the stats for all the fires and such. The August-September article was requested by @Cyclonebiskit: as a collective article of all the fires. It will most likely take information or somewhat replace the 2020 Oregon wildfires and 2020 Washington wildfires articles, as those are shorter and part of the whole 2020 west coast wildfire disasters. See WP:ITN/C#Ongoing:2020 California wildfires for a lengthy discussion regarding the rationale for this merge Thanks.~ Destroyeraa🌀 18:00, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-10T18:00:00.000Z","author":"Destroyeraa","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T18:00:00.000Z-LightandDark2000-2020-09-10T17:12:00.000Z","replies":["c-LightandDark2000-2020-09-10T18:26:00.000Z-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T18:00:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\ud83c\udf00"}}-->

Maybe Cyclonebiskit and the others with more experience should locate the data and update the article accordingly. I don't have much experience working outside of the California wildfire articles in this field, and I don't have the time to go on an extensive search (college, otherwise, I'd revamp the article myself). I agree that the article needs a serious reworking, but merging the articles isn't really the solution. You could copy and paste the corresponding parts of this article over to the broader August-September article while acknowledging where you copied the bits from in the Edit Summary (I've seen other editors do this with large-scale copy & paste edits). LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 18:26, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-10T18:26:00.000Z","author":"LightandDark2000","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-LightandDark2000-2020-09-10T18:26:00.000Z-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T18:00:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Oppose - I agree with LightandDark2000 on this issue. I created this August California lightning wildfires page back on August 21st to only include the wildfires sparked by lightning storms from mid to the end of August 2020. If you want to keep the page you created, I have no problem with that, but please don't merge it with this page. Additionally, I believe you should rename the page you created to only September 2020 Western United States wildfires. I feel like that page should only be limited to wildfires started in September, with the acreage burned only including how much was burned in September, not August. EagerBeaverPJ (talk) 18:33, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-10T18:33:00.000Z","author":"EagerBeaverPJ","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-10T18:33:00.000Z-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T14:20:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Also tbh your work so far on that page isn't that bad for a start! I myself know through experience how hard it can be when you're the only one working on a page. Through continuous work it can be improved greatly :) EagerBeaverPJ (talk) 18:37, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-10T18:37:00.000Z","author":"EagerBeaverPJ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-10T18:37:00.000Z-Merge","replies":["c-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T18:45:00.000Z-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-10T18:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

@EagerBeaverPJ: Thanks for the advice. I usually edit hurricane articles, but due to my work at ITN and with current events, I got interested in these wildfire complexes. You're right, I moved the August-September wildfire article to only have September in the title. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 18:45, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-10T18:45:00.000Z","author":"Destroyeraa","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T18:45:00.000Z-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-10T18:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-10T18:54:00.000Z-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T18:45:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\ud83c\udf00"}}-->

👍 EagerBeaverPJ (talk) 18:54, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-10T18:54:00.000Z","author":"EagerBeaverPJ","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-10T18:54:00.000Z-Destroyeraa-2020-09-10T18:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Destroyeraa: Just a note, some of the fires that started in August will be mentioned on both articles, and in fact will have more info on the September 2020 wildfires page. This is because they had more of a significance in September. One example is the Bear Fire of the North Complex. EagerBeaverPJ (talk) 19:23, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-10T19:23:00.000Z","author":"EagerBeaverPJ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-10T19:23:00.000Z-Merge","replies":[]}}-->

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Which fires are lightning fires?

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@Love of Corey: I notice that you want to include the Lake Fire, Ranch 2 Fire, the Loyalton Fire, and the Hills Fire on this page. However, the Lake Fire had an unknown cause while the Ranch 2 Fire was started by arson, so clearly we can't include those. Apparently the Loyalton Fire was started by lightning, but it happened before the August 16 storm, so I'm not sure yet if we're going to include that on this page. And the Hills Fire cause was not clearly stated. So just wanted to let you know. It also seems that you had made other revisions to this page which got reverted, so I'll probably have to check and add those back. EagerBeaverPJ (talk) 21:11, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-12T21:11:00.000Z","author":"EagerBeaverPJ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-12T21:11:00.000Z-Which_fires_are_lightning_fires?","replies":["c-Love_of_Corey-2020-09-13T04:43:00.000Z-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-12T21:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

Really? The 2020 California wildfires article currently says all of those fires were lightning-sparked, unless that information is inaccurate. That was where I got that impression from. Love of Corey (talk) 04:43, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-13T04:43:00.000Z","author":"Love of Corey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Love_of_Corey-2020-09-13T04:43:00.000Z-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-12T21:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-13T09:22:00.000Z-Love_of_Corey-2020-09-13T04:43:00.000Z"]}}-->

@Love of Corey: Yeah, actually I've been aware of the misinformation on that page for a while but I ain't got time to fix it. My suspicions were first raised when I saw that a whole bunch of fires were labelled as lightning-sparked, which didn't make sense. Sorry for the confusion :( EagerBeaverPJ (talk) 09:22, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-13T09:22:00.000Z","author":"EagerBeaverPJ","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-13T09:22:00.000Z-Love_of_Corey-2020-09-13T04:43:00.000Z","replies":["c-Love_of_Corey-2020-09-13T10:23:00.000Z-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-13T09:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

Okay, it's alright. Love of Corey (talk) 10:23, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-13T10:23:00.000Z","author":"Love of Corey","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Love_of_Corey-2020-09-13T10:23:00.000Z-EagerBeaverPJ-2020-09-13T09:22:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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WORST IN HISTORY!

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See Neutral_point_of_view

I'm working on edits to remove "worst in history" style language; and replace these with language that will better survive changes in historical context. For example, these events, while terrible, have articles in neutral language

Great Chicago Fire, 1906_San_Francisco_earthquake

whereas more contemporary articles like

Camp_Fire_(2018), 2020 California wildfires, September_2020_Western_United_States_wildfires

suffer from edits that assume 2018 or 2020 as the end of history. Help?

Mmcdougall (talk) 16:18, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-18T16:18:00.000Z","author":"Mmcdougall","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mmcdougall-2020-09-18T16:18:00.000Z-WORST_IN_HISTORY!","replies":[]}}-->

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Add the CZU fire?

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Shouldn’t this article also mention and link to the CZU complex fire? CZU Lightning Complex fires 2600:1700:8A14:1A70:31B5:4DC0:13CC:B338 (talk) 04:44, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240801044400","author":"2600:1700:8A14:1A70:31B5:4DC0:13CC:B338","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-2600:1700:8A14:1A70:31B5:4DC0:13CC:B338-20240801044400-Add_the_CZU_fire?","replies":[]}}-->