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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Freedom of choice is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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SPECIFICO talk 19:13, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-02-10T19:13:00.000Z","author":"SPECIFICO","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SPECIFICO-2013-02-10T19:13:00.000Z-Nomination_of_Freedom_of_choice_for_deletion","replies":[]}}-->

A few months ago, you participated in a discussion on Wikipedia talk:Did you know about Gibraltar-related DYKs on the Main Page. I am proposing that the temporary restrictions on such DYKs, which were imposed in September 2012, should be lifted and have set out a case for doing so at Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Gibraltar-related DYKs. If you have a view on this, please comment at that page. Prioryman (talk) 22:01, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-02-13T22:01:00.000Z","author":"Prioryman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Prioryman-2013-02-13T22:01:00.000Z-Notification_of_discussion","replies":[]}}-->

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Thank you for the good advise. I will try to improve the internal links when creating entries on Swedish subjects to make the articles more stable. The problem is that I have a difficult laptop to work with when writing (i.e. an important button on the tablet is broken). Thats why I work a bit slow sometimes. PS: I speak Swedish too. --AddyFBG (talk) 17:56, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-03-09T17:56:00.000Z","author":"AddyFBG","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AddyFBG-2013-03-09T17:56:00.000Z-Answer","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, Can you please remove the stub-tag from that article? I will certainly not try to expand it because the idea behind "political party funding" was to provide links to a wealth of articles that pertain to the subject.Khnassmacher (talk) 13:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-03-11T13:03:00.000Z","author":"Khnassmacher","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Khnassmacher-2013-03-11T13:03:00.000Z-Polical_party_funding","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2013-03-11T13:27:00.000Z-Khnassmacher-2013-03-11T13:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hello, I replied at User talk:Khnassmacher#Stub markings and comments in article text since I had some hints that may better belong on your talk page. Tomas e (talk) 13:27, 11 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-03-11T13:27:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2013-03-11T13:27:00.000Z-Khnassmacher-2013-03-11T13:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Tomas! Can you provide me with a list of featured articles on Swedish Wikipedia (must be about Swedish subjects) which I can translate to English and upload here. I appreciate your help. Best regards --AddyFBG (talk) 14:55, 18 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-03-18T14:55:00.000Z","author":"AddyFBG","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AddyFBG-2013-03-18T14:55:00.000Z-Featured_articles","replies":[]}}-->

See sv:Wikipedia:Utmärkta artiklar, sv:Wikipedia:Bra artiklar and sv:Wikipedia:Rekommenderade artiklar for a falling scale of "featured" articles on Swedish Wikipedia. If you are going to translate I assume that you're able to navigate through Swedish pages. :-) The first two categories have gone through a review process, but not the last one. Good luck! 15:00, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

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Ok, I won't argue with an expert on the protocols. I'll let it be since I didn't use the correct protocol on PRODS. I'll just let those articles, remain on wikipedia. I'll just forgot I'd ever tried to do that!Demrep. —Preceding undated comment added 22:09, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-08-18T22:09:00.000Z","author":"Demrep","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Demrep-2013-08-18T22:09:00.000Z-Your_many_PRODs","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2013-08-20T11:23:00.000Z-Demrep-2013-08-18T22:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

If you just PROD articles that fulfil the criteria, it isn't that difficult, so I hope you didn't get the wrong impression. On another note, deleting my commenting and replying here is a bit of an odd talk page behaviour. Usually a discussion is kept together where it started. Regards, Tomas e (talk) 11:23, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-08-20T11:23:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2013-08-20T11:23:00.000Z-Demrep-2013-08-18T22:09:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Oh, I definitely got the wrong impression from you. It sounded like you were a know it all with that message and like you were dumbfounded or dismayed at what I tried to do. It may be odd behavior to you, but I rather not read that message again or see it on my user page again. Oh well, it's water under the bridge now and I'll get on with other edits and not attempt mass deletions of articles anymore. I learned something from all this, which is what counts in the end. Sincerely, Demrep —Preceding undated comment added 16:27, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-09-06T16:27:00.000Z","author":"Demrep","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Demrep-2013-09-06T16:27:00.000Z-Your_many_PRODs","replies":[]}}-->

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I am not sure the right etiquette. I found the article on Bothnian Bay, which had correctly been rated a stub, and expanded it. In terms of size it went from 2,012 bytes to 21,389 bytes, so it is clearly no longer a stub. I don't think I should rate my own work, so I removed the assessment in the expectation that someone else would come by and re-rate it, as you did. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:01, 18 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-10-18T14:01:00.000Z","author":"Aymatth2","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aymatth2-2013-10-18T14:01:00.000Z-Removing_assessments","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2013-10-18T14:17:00.000Z-Aymatth2-2013-10-18T14:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes I did come by, but in many or most cases noone will come by, at least not in a reasonable timeframe. Assessing your own article is really only a problem at the Good Article or Featured Article level, where some sort of "peer review" is suitable to have. Assessing your own work as stub, start or C, depending on its length and level of referencing and illustration, is completely unproblematic. Now, removing a stub assessment is less problematic than removing them at higher levels, but as a principle I prefer to see updates rather than deletions. Your best guess is always better than nothing, if you feel certain that the current assessment is wrong. By the way, I noted that you have done several valuable additions to articles; keep up the good work! Best regards, Tomas e (talk) 14:17, 18 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-10-18T14:17:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2013-10-18T14:17:00.000Z-Aymatth2-2013-10-18T14:01:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

If you find any material for expansion of Fäbodristning like 400ch more needed for DYK and then it will go directly to DYK as it forfills all the other requirements. I have put you in the nom for DYK for credits. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 11:34, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-10-20T11:34:00.000Z","author":"BabbaQ","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-BabbaQ-2013-10-20T11:34:00.000Z-F\u00e4bodristning","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2013-10-20T12:44:00.000Z-BabbaQ-2013-10-20T11:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

Sorry, but I was just assessing it after you placed the project tag; I don't really know anything about the subject or have any sources handy. Good luck! Tomas e (talk) 12:44, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-10-20T12:44:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2013-10-20T12:44:00.000Z-BabbaQ-2013-10-20T11:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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This article is about a well known Irish family who, I accept, have passed down a title they may not have deserved. It is not an article about Swedish barons of which I know nothing. I cannot see how this title business affects the notability of the family members, who were leading members of Irish society, built country houses and were High Sheriffs of their county. Incidentally the naming convention is that of UK barons as the family members were Anglo-Irish and had no ongoing connections with Sweden.Plucas58 (talk) 22:16, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-10-29T22:16:00.000Z","author":"Plucas58","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Plucas58-2013-10-29T22:16:00.000Z-Baron_de_Robeck","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2013-10-30T10:44:00.000Z-Plucas58-2013-10-29T22:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

I have nothing against an article on the De Robecks as a family (also serving as disambiguation page, if articles on several members), but the lead sentence indicated the article was on a non-existing Swedish title. I couldn't see anything to salvage under an article name which is not really correct (or at least not official), so I PRODded it. But I think there's a constructive middle ground to be had, by focussing the article on the Anglo-Irish family and not on the title. Here's my suggestion: move the article from Baron de Robeck to De Robeck and de-PROD it after it has been moved and modified. I suggest I'll create the article on the Fock family based upon sv:Fock (adelsätt) within the next few days, so there's something at the wikilink target. The "1st Baron" etctera should either be removed, or changed to "styled himself as...", if indeed that was the case for all of them. I'll go over the article after you've moved it, and make sure it doesn't make any claims about Swedish nobility that is unsupported by reliable Swedish sources. OK? Tomas e (talk) 10:44, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-10-30T10:44:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2013-10-30T10:44:00.000Z-Plucas58-2013-10-29T22:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I appreciate your suggestions on how to resolve our differences. But, just as you wish to defend the integrity of articles about the Swedish peerage I am also concerned that an article about a significant Irish family describes them as they are and not as you would wish them to be. They are the Fock family, but widely known and accepted as the Barons de Robeck. Whether they deserve the title is a subsidiary issue.

As you can see I had already changed the lead sentence to remove any suggestion that the title was legitimate. My counter proposal is that the title of the article be left as is because that is what people would expect it to be when searching (I only wrote the article because I was searching for them myself under their assumed title of Baron de Robeck), but that the text be modified as you suggest to "state clearly that they were a branch of the Swedish noble family Fock (noble family) who took the name de Robeck (unilaterally) after emigrating". I don't want to drag this out any more than you do but I don't think we have yet agreed on the best compromise.Plucas58 (talk) 12:03, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-10-30T12:03:00.000Z","author":"Plucas58","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Plucas58-2013-10-30T12:03:00.000Z-Baron_de_Robeck","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2013-10-30T16:19:00.000Z-Plucas58-2013-10-30T12:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

Perhaps a continuation of the discussion should be held at the talk page of the article Talk:Baron de Robeck, in case more editors have anything to add. I appreciate your willingness to adapt the article, but I still believe that a De Robeck article, with Baron de Robeck as a redirect, would be a better solution. And I just like to point out that my aim is factual accuracy (backed up by WP:RS) and keeping the content (and article titles) on an encyclopedic level. Tomas e (talk) 16:19, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-10-30T16:19:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2013-10-30T16:19:00.000Z-Plucas58-2013-10-30T12:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Plucas58-2013-10-30T22:42:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2013-10-30T16:19:00.000Z"]}}-->

No need. Changes made as you requested. Need to move on.Plucas58 (talk) 22:42, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-10-30T22:42:00.000Z","author":"Plucas58","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Plucas58-2013-10-30T22:42:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2013-10-30T16:19:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Hi, when you find time for it please assess some of the Wikiproject Swedens articles. Over 100 unassessed and unknown importance Swedish articles right now and I know that you atleast in the past have shown interest in keeping those numbers down. Just a suggestion atleast :) regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 01:05, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-03-09T01:05:00.000Z","author":"BabbaQ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BabbaQ-2014-03-09T01:05:00.000Z-Wikiproject_Sweden","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2014-03-09T10:30:00.000Z-BabbaQ-2014-03-09T01:05:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hello, I've been busy with other things and haven't done any of this for the last couple of months, mostly due to a lack of time. I might come back to do this, but most likely not in the short term. Regards, Tomas e (talk) 10:30, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-03-09T10:30:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2014-03-09T10:30:00.000Z-BabbaQ-2014-03-09T01:05:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Hello. It looks from the edit history like you re-added a 'notability' tag to this page in 2010. The thing is, the article is fully referenced. Yes, it is local, but all wineries are. Having a page on the history of specific wineries is not non-notable IMO. They can go for a lot at auctions (globally) for one; they are collected globally, like paintings or pottery; and they are also an important part of local cultures. I think this page should be expanded, but it is definitely notable. Moreover, I think most wineries at List of wineries and vineyards in Alabama should have their own page as well. It would be extremely problematic if they were deemed "non-notable," however.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:58, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-07-22T14:58:00.000Z","author":"Zigzig20s","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Zigzig20s-2014-07-22T14:58:00.000Z-Morgan_Creek_Vineyards_(Alabama)","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2014-07-22T15:42:00.000Z-Zigzig20s-2014-07-22T14:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hello, I definitely disagree that all or most wineries are notable, in Alabama or elsewhere. Bordeaux has 8,000+ wine producers, and I suppose some 5% of these might be notable enough for Wikipedia articles in my opinion, and applying the basic guidelines. Please see the basic WP:Notability and WP:CORP guidelines, as well as WP:NOTDIRECTORY under WP:NOT (which also makes me think that exhaustive list of all wineries, including non-notable ones, is highly questionable Wikipedia content). And of course, this has been made more concrete in Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a wine guide. However, I must say that I can't exactly recall that specific edit from four years ago among my 61,479 edits (and that's just counting this language version...), but I do notice that this article has had a lot of non-encyclopedic, "wine guide style" material added. However, I'm not as active as I used to be, so if you're interested in an general discussion you could try Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wine rather than here. Unfortunately, that project also isn't as active as it used to be. Tomas e (talk) 15:42, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-07-22T15:42:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2014-07-22T15:42:00.000Z-Zigzig20s-2014-07-22T14:58:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hey Tomas, would you be willing to poke your head over at the Merlot Talk page. I'm afraid that NewTestLeeper is going to go on a POINTy deletion rampage through all of our wine articles. I'm failing in trying to convince him to be constructive and replace the images he doesn't like rather than just wholesale deletion. I have never had any objections to wine pics being replaced with vineyard pics but the current Merlot article is a mess with just walls of text and no illustrations. Even innocuous images like this with the wine bottle firmly in the background apparently aren't even safe. Another viewpoint would be welcomed. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 17:25, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-07-22T17:25:00.000Z","author":"Agne27","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Agne27-2014-07-22T17:25:00.000Z-Merlot_pics","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2014-07-22T17:41:00.000Z-Agne27-2014-07-22T17:25:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Agne"}}-->

Might do if I feel like I have the time, but it might better to get someone who understands the subject but has a fresh set of eyes. I detect a certain lack of WP:CIVILity in edit comments from the editor in question. It's fairly insulting to repeatedly claim that someone's edits are "advertising". Tomas e (talk) 17:41, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-07-22T17:41:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2014-07-22T17:41:00.000Z-Agne27-2014-07-22T17:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Agne27-2014-07-22T17:48:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2014-07-22T17:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yeah, Drmies is definitely more reasonable and I suspect that even he wouldn't feel comfortable with NewTestLeeper going on a Pointy deletion spree. I feel like this might be middle ground that can reached with Drmies at least that won't leave the wine articles left as a wasteland. I encouraged NTL to take this to RfC if he feels so sincerely troubled by this but I'm wondering if he's afraid an RfC would cast light on his behavior. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 17:48, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-07-22T17:48:00.000Z","author":"Agne27","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Agne27-2014-07-22T17:48:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2014-07-22T17:41:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Agne"}}-->

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Hello Tomas e! Thank you for all your great work on enWP! I see where you often are quite busy classifying the importance of WP bios of Swedes as "low". Once in a while I don't agree with your opinions and feel you need to be reversed. Questions for you:

1. What do you base your classifications on, other than your own personal opinions?
2. Do you really feel it's necessary to classify that many life stores as of "low" importance?
3. What's wrong with leaving them unclassified, is that some sort of failure on our part?
4. Do you ever classify any other articles than biographies?
5. Do you ever classify any life stories as being of more importance than "low"?

No offense intended. Just asking. Sincerely, --SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:59, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-12-29T19:59:00.000Z","author":"SergeWoodzing","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-29T19:59:00.000Z-Importance_classifications","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2014-12-29T21:18:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-29T19:59:00.000Z","c-BabbaQ-2014-12-29T23:39:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-29T19:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

If memory serves me, we've had this discussion before, and I've not really changed my approach since then. My thinking is based on the following, although I might not have spelled it out in this much detail before:

• I assess all types of WP:Sweden articles. I did this over a longer period of time some years ago, and I've just returned to the task. Don't know if I'll continue doing it again over the coming months, we'll see. (Historically, I've also assessed a lot of WP:Wine articles, but I've not really returned to that project in the same way). I find the articles to assess primarily by checking lists of new articles related to Sweden (plus checking other articles linked in those articles), by going through categories of Sweden-related articles, and by checking up partially assessed articles, so there's no great mystery in why I choose the articles I choose. In recent times, biographies (largely sports- and entertainment-related), songs and music albums dominate this selection in terms of number of articles, but this is simply a reflection of what Sweden-related articles that have been created in 2014. As another example, some years ago I went through all localities and municipalities in Sweden and assessed them.
• WP:Sweden is not exclusively a biographical project and therefore biographies need to be considered in relation to other articles. I do consider articles on geographical locations, "general subjects on Sweden" and major Swedish companies and organisations more central to the project than the vast majority of individual biographical articles. Some biographical articles are of course quite central.
• My purpose in assessing the articles are primarily to have them properly tagged for WPSweden and some other project (such as WPBio). The project tags help significantly with housekeeping tasks (keeping track on deletion discussions, moves to other article names, automatic generations of lists of deficient articles related to Sweden, etcetera), and hopefully help people like yourself (those that are interested in Sweden-related subjects and can read Swedish-language sources). In principle a project tag without assessment of class and importance is able to do the same work. However, such "empty project tags" have sometimes been assigned by bots and tools, without really checking into the articles' merits. When I assign a full project tag, I also make some checks if other project tags should be added, if the article is properly categorised, and if it has any major deficiencies that calls for "quality templates" to be added. So for me, a full assessment means that I confirm that I've really taken a look at the article.
• I've strived to assess in a consistent way.
• I've basically taken the view that "positive evidence" is required for assigning importance higher than low, and for many categories of articles I've tried to create certain standards. For example: I've usually assessed prime ministers high, government ministers and non-PM party leaders mid, while leaving the run-of-the-mill members of parliament low. I've assigned low to almost all sportspeople, artists, businesspeople and scientists, and usually reserved mid for those that, roughly speaking, are obviously quite outstanding in their field by international (and not just domestic Swedish) standards. High has been reserved for a very select few that, roughly speaking, are obviously of enduring historical importance, and not just outstanding in their generation.
• Do notice that I definitely don't see importance=mid or high as some sort of "reference level", and importance=low as a sign of "should be deleted" or something similar. I suspect, based on previous discussions, that your reasoning involves this kind of "reference level" thinking.
• Therefore, I don't really see a problem in having 80-90% of the project's biographic articles as low-importance.
• This said, the percentage might be a bit too high today. I do not rule out that there is a substantial number of biographies (as well as articles on companies and organisations) that might justify mid-importance within "my scheme" but today are low-importance. Changing a few per cent of them - that's still hundreds of articles! - from low to mid in a consistent way wouldn't really affect the overall consistency. However, changing e.g. every article on Swedish children's authors or Swedish footballers or Swedish social democrats to at least mid-importance and many of them to high-importance would definitely remove the consistency of the scheme.
• However, I have to admit that I'm more concerned with the border between stub and start, than the border between low and mid. I have a feeling that I've been a bit too non-generous in assigning start-class to articles, and looked to much on their length excluding tables & infoboxes, also in the case of "small" subjects (such as articles on individual songs).
• Since I neither "own" the project or the individual assessments everyone is of course free to have their own opinions regarding assessments. I do think consistency is a very good idea, though, both across biographies and between biographies and other type of articles (geographical, organisations, works of art...).
• I might add that in my opinion, assessments should be changed rather than removed, if one disagrees with them.
• If I'm perfectly honest, though, I would consider it a much more valuable effort for Wikipedia and for WPSweden to improve 100 stub-class articles or to provide 100 articles with references than to change the importance of 1000 biographies. :-) But everyone is free to spend their time on things that other editors think less valuable! :-) Tomas e (talk) 21:18, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-12-29T21:18:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2014-12-29T21:18:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-29T19:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-29T22:49:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2014-12-29T21:18:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you for taking all that time to reply!

I have no memory of having had this discussion with you before; sorry if you find me tedious.

Just brief answers to my questions would have been fine, but now I've read all of what you wrote and found a lot of it interesting anyway.

May I deduce then that your anwers to my 5 questions are as follows, as regards importance?

1. Personal opinions
2. Yes
3. It helps interested editors [not to spend too much time on them?] if they are classified ["low"?], and yes: failure [what's in brackets are my own asumptions as to what you mean]
4. Yes a few
5. Yes but very few

--SergeWoodzing (talk) 22:49, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-12-29T22:49:00.000Z","author":"SergeWoodzing","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-29T22:49:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2014-12-29T21:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2014-12-30T12:22:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-29T22:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

Brief answers would not have sufficed to provide an understanding, given the way your questions were phrased. Your deductions as to (3) and (4) are somewhat strange, though. It would have been interesting to know if there was any answer to (1) that qualifies as anything else than "personal opinion" to you? I think that you might have a bit of a "hang up" on the phrase low as such, so why don't you consider the classes as importance 1, 2,3 and 4? You might consider the purpose of the classes 1-3 as a guide to which articles in the project that should get priority in getting up to at least FA-class, B-class/C-class and start-class in an ideal world, and which articles that it might be a good idea for many editors with a general interest in Sweden to have on their watchlist. Happy new year and happy editing ;-) Tomas e (talk) 12:22, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-12-30T12:22:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2014-12-30T12:22:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-29T22:49:00.000Z","replies":["c-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-30T16:22:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2014-12-30T12:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

But "importance 1, 2,3 and 4" is not what we have to deal with here, so why discuss something that doesn't actually exist?

I'm trying very hard not to be offended by your presumption that I might have a "'hang up'", though I can't see any reason for you to get personal with an accusation like that. To me, the words "importance: low" in English mean just that: "importance: low", and that's what I brought up here, not "1,2,3,4". Perhaps you have a "hang up" about me? Sad, if so.

And perhaps the word "importance" is at least as problematic, whereas "priority" could be better, with the addition - right there! - of the name of the user giving the opinion in each case?

In essence, I find it hard to understand why you don't just clearly and briefly answer the five reasonable questions I asked you, rather than going into lots of stuff I didn't ask you about.

• If there's some other criteria than personal opinions that we Wikipedians are supposed to use in evaluating the importance to our readers of these life stories, I would, sincerely, like to know.
• If you are not to be considered interested mainly, regarding the evaluation of life stories, in evaluating them as of low importance, I would, sincerely, like to know that too.

I wrote to you out of respect and asked you reasonable questions, because I'd like to understand better some of the considerable time and effort that you put into this project, within a huge amount of other valuable work you do on it. So far, I feel I've been given a bit of a run-around plus a litlle personal jab, rather than straight answers based on the specific questions I asked. Why, I fear I might never know.

As I'm sure you realize, intelligent and perceptive as you are (when not focusing on any "hang up"), I may very well now be of an opinion which rather stongly objects to our evaluating life stories, expecially those under WP:BLP, as of "high", "medium" or "low importance" - that (to boot!) being one of the the first things a reader sees very prominently displayed when visiting an article's talk page, and that based solely on our own personal opinions, rather than on any other more substantial and neutrally reliable foundation. I don't see what gives us that right, nor why any such privilege or responsibility should exist for Wikipedia editors to exercise that kind of personal authority over other named individuals, living or dead.

• Is there any WP policy I could read that might make me better understand such privileges/responsibilities of ours?

Certainly other editors have also questioned things like this (though power also may tend to corrupt us).

As with all my opinions, even the strongest ones, I am always open to clear, constructive, non-personalized, well-founded arguments aimed at changing them. Anything like that coming up here? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:22, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-12-30T16:22:00.000Z","author":"SergeWoodzing","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-30T16:22:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2014-12-30T12:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2014-12-30T23:28:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-30T16:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

Dear SergeWoodzing, I see absolutely no point in continuing this discussion on my talk page, since I don't find you particularly constructive. I suggest reading Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Assessment FAQ and Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Guide/WikiProject#Assessment if you haven't already done so, and if you wish to discuss general assessment questions, find a suitable project talk page or other meta page instead. Your objections about the terminology chosen by the Project Council and the Wikipedia 1.0 task force, neither of which I've been a member of, do definitely not belong on my talk page. Further remarks from you on this subject on my talk page will therefore be deleted. Regards, Tomas e (talk) 23:28, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-12-30T23:28:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2014-12-30T23:28:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-30T16:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2014-12-31T00:15:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2014-12-30T23:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

Comment: for the record, the previous discussion with SergeWoodzing (talk · contribs) on this subject at this talk page happened five years ago (actually a bit longer ago than I thought) and can be read at User talk:Tomas e/Archive 2009#Importance of Articles on Living Swedes. Tomas e (talk) 00:15, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-12-31T00:15:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2014-12-31T00:15:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2014-12-30T23:28:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Tomas often assesses my articles. And in 99% of the cases he is correct^{[according to whom?]}. That is just my input.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:39, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-12-29T23:39:00.000Z","author":"BabbaQ","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-BabbaQ-2014-12-29T23:39:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2014-12-29T19:59:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

There are ongoing discussions about the use of "Importance" which flies against Biography guideline. This type of editing, and any other orders you might want to give me on the subject, should be avoided in the meantime. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 10:13, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-01-03T10:13:00.000Z","author":"SergeWoodzing","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SergeWoodzing-2015-01-03T10:13:00.000Z-Ongoing_discussion","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2015-01-03T10:54:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2015-01-03T10:13:00.000Z"]}}-->

Definitely not. Removals of assessments are not acceptable, as you should be well aware of. In this case we are talking about assessments for WikiProject Sweden. You have started a discussion over at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography/Assessment#Importance_rather_than_priority, another project, which so far (3.5 days) has only resulted in only one other comment, which did not agree with you. Tomas e (talk) 10:54, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-01-03T10:54:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2015-01-03T10:54:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2015-01-03T10:13:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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On 19 January 2015, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Carolina Neurath, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Swedish journalist Carolina Neurath ventured into acting when she starred as Princess Arianna Ad'lah in the film Star Wars: Threads of Destiny in 2014? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Carolina Neurath. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:21, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-01-19T04:21:00.000Z","author":"Crisco 1492","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Crisco_1492-2015-01-19T04:21:00.000Z-DYK_for_Carolina_Neurath","replies":[]}}-->

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Please take a look at the article about Måns Zelmerlöw. I have done several edits to improve the article ahead of his likely Melodifestivalen winning next weekend. Any further improvements are appreciated. Cheers.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:24, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-03-04T17:24:00.000Z","author":"BabbaQ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BabbaQ-2015-03-04T17:24:00.000Z-M\u00e5ns","replies":[]}}-->

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Wedding of Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland, and Sofia Hellqvist.--BabbaQ (talk) 22:57, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-06-13T22:57:00.000Z","author":"BabbaQ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BabbaQ-2015-06-13T22:57:00.000Z-Royals","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2015-06-14T13:27:00.000Z-BabbaQ-2015-06-13T22:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

I assume you wished for a (re)assessment, so I did it. Tomas e (talk) 13:27, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-06-14T13:27:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2015-06-14T13:27:00.000Z-BabbaQ-2015-06-13T22:57:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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I started a article about Clark Olofsson today. Take a look :) Any help appreciated.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:21, 10 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-07-10T14:21:00.000Z","author":"BabbaQ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BabbaQ-2015-07-10T14:21:00.000Z-Article","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2015-07-18T13:01:00.000Z-BabbaQ-2015-07-10T14:21:00.000Z"]}}-->

It was in good shape already when I saw it, although it doesn't contain his further activities from the 1980s and on. Tomas e (talk) 13:01, 18 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-07-18T13:01:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2015-07-18T13:01:00.000Z-BabbaQ-2015-07-10T14:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Kolla in Marie Serneholts artikel. Den blev vald till veckans TAFI artikel. Om du har tid vill säga.... --BabbaQ (talk) 22:29, 11 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-11-11T22:29:00.000Z","author":"BabbaQ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BabbaQ-2015-11-11T22:29:00.000Z-Marie_Serneholt","replies":[]}}-->

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Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:33, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-11-24T13:33:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2015-11-24T13:33:00.000Z-ArbCom_elections_are_now_open!","replies":[]}}-->

On behalf of the Military history WikiProject's Coordinators, we would like to extend an invitation to nominate deserving editors for the 2015 Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards. The nomination period will run from 7 December to 23:59 13 December, with the election phase running from 14 December to 23:59 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:05, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-12-07T05:05:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2015-12-07T05:05:00.000Z-Nominations_for_the_Military_history_WikiProject_historian_and_newcomer_of_the_y","replies":[]}}-->

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I created an article about singer Carina Jaarnek today. She died yesterday. If you want to, take a look.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:58, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-01-17T12:58:00.000Z","author":"BabbaQ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BabbaQ-2016-01-17T12:58:00.000Z-Hi","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2016-01-17T13:17:00.000Z-BabbaQ-2016-01-17T12:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

Looks good on a quick read-through, and a solid start-class. Tomas e (talk) 13:17, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-01-17T13:17:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2016-01-17T13:17:00.000Z-BabbaQ-2016-01-17T12:58:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Hello, Tomas! I've noticed your edit at talk:freezing-point depression. I want to ask you if could help in finding some info about Regval Wasoe, a Swedish physical chemist author of the reference that I have inserted in Debye-Huckel theory about cryoscopic measurements of electrolyte mixtures in order to test the applicability of the theory to that case. This Swedish author has been mentioned in another scientific paper/article. Google search has not been helpful. Thanks.--5.15.50.146 (talk) 12:56, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-01-26T12:56:00.000Z","author":"5.15.50.146","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-5.15.50.146-2016-01-26T12:56:00.000Z-Cryoscopic_measurements_of_electrolyte_mixtures","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2016-02-28T11:52:00.000Z-5.15.50.146-2016-01-26T12:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hello, I didn't reply immediately and then forgot all about it until the next message on my talk page (yesterday). Sorry about that. "Wasoe" is most likely a German-style translitteration from "Wasö", which is a highly probable Swedish surname. The problem is, no-one with that surname has ever published anything in book format in Sweden according to LIBRIS, the database of National Library of Sweden. That database includes all Ph.D. theses, for example. Neither is there any currently living person in Sweden with that surname, the closest being Wassö (also no LIBRIS hits). Regval is a bit more more odd, and doesn't help. I don't assume you've seen the original article in Physikalische Zeitschrift and could provide his affiliation, if specified, or verify the actual spelling? A scientist with basically no publication record is unlikely to be covered in any printed Swedish biographical source. I could see three possible explanations for the lack of LIBRIS hits: 1) the name has been misspelled in secondary sources, 2) he was a Ph.D. student who never finished, or possibly an industrial engineer, and therefore didn't publish much else (and on top of that didn't have any family...), or 3) he isn't Swedish. Tomas e (talk) 11:52, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-02-28T11:52:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2016-02-28T11:52:00.000Z-5.15.50.146-2016-01-26T12:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-5.15.176.102-2016-06-08T16:56:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2016-02-28T11:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

I have seen a variant in the citation of an other article : Regnval Wesoe. About the affiliation I think it could be seen in the online version of Physikalische Zeitschrift if it covers the 1930 articles. It seems that online scanned pages of the journal do not include the 1930 year, the coverage is only until 1929. Where could 1930 year of the joural be found online to see the affiliation?--5.15.176.102 (talk) 16:56, 8 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-06-08T16:56:00.000Z","author":"5.15.176.102","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-5.15.176.102-2016-06-08T16:56:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2016-02-28T11:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-03T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2017_election_voter_message","replies":[]}}-->

As we approach the end of the year, the Military History project is looking to recognise editors who have made a real difference. Each year we do this by bestowing two awards: the Military Historian of the Year and the Military History Newcomer of the Year. The co-ordinators invite all project members to get involved by nominating any editor they feel merits recognition for their contributions to the project. Nominations for both awards are open between 00:01 on 2 December 2017 and 23:59 on 15 December 2017. After this, a 14-day voting period will follow commencing at 00:01 on 16 December 2017. Nominations and voting will take place on the main project talkpage: here and here. Thank you for your time. For the co-ordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-12-08T08:35:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-08T08:35:00.000Z-2017_Military_Historian_of_the_Year_and_Newcomer_of_the_Year_nominations_and_vot","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Op-ed: TomStar81 on the Halifax Explosion of 1917 Timeline: This month in World War I

Greetings,

"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Wikipedia. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Wikipedia Military Historians.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:30, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-12-21T11:30:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2017-12-21T11:30:00.000Z-User_group_for_Military_Historians","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 looks at tropical medicine and Operation Market Garden Op-ed: Hawkeye7 on US Army doctrine in World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D on the Napoleonic Wars and Hawkeye7 on World War II Op-ed: Hawkeye7 on generalship in 1918 Timeline: This month in World War I

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 looks at a work by Daniel Ellsberg Op-ed: TomStar81 on the 1918 flu pandemic Timeline: This month in World War I

G'day all, please be advised that throughout April 2018 the Military history Wikiproject is running its annual backlog elimination drive. This will focus on several key areas:

• tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
• adding or improving listed resources on Milhist's task force pages
• updating the open tasks template on Milhist's task force pages
• creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the scope of military history will be considered eligible. This year, the Military history project would like to extend a specific welcome to members of Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red, and we would like to encourage all participants to consider working on helping to improve our coverage of women in the military. This is not the sole focus of the edit-a-thon, though, and there are aspects that hopefully will appeal to pretty much everyone.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 April and runs until 23:59 UTC on 30 April 2018. Those interested in participating can sign up here.

For the Milhist co-ordinators, AustralianRupert and MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:53, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-27T10:53:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-03-27T10:53:00.000Z-April_2018_Milhist_Backlog_Drive","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at the bombing of Darwin; recent books by female military historians Review essay: K.e.coffman on Wikipedia's representations of the Nazi German military Op-ed: TomStar81 on the Red Baron Timeline: This month in World War I

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 looks at coalitions and logistics in World War II, and Nick-D at Australia's frontier wars Timeline: This month in World War I

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Op-ed: TomStar81 on a supergun of World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: This month's external reviews Op-ed: TomStar81 on the murder of the Romanovs Timeline: This month in World War I

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at a classic US official history Op-ed: TomStar81 on belated declarations of war in 1916–18 Timeline: This month in World War I

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are now open. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the coord team. Cheers, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:54, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-09-01T00:54:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-09-01T00:54:00.000Z-Wikiproject_Military_history_coordinator_election_nominations_open","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Indy Beetle and Nick-D on the Katangese Gendarmes and India during World War II Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at two important treaties of World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

G'day everyone, voting for the 2018 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche is now open. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2018. Thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:35, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-09-15T00:35:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-09-15T00:35:00.000Z-Milhist_coordinator_election_voting_has_commenced","replies":[]}}-->

G'day everyone, voting for the 2018 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche is now open. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2018. Thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:22, 15 September 2018 (UTC) Note: the previous version omitted a link to the election page, therefore you are receiving this follow up message with a link to the election page to correct the previous version. We apologies for any inconvenience that this may have caused.[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-09-15T06:22:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-09-15T06:22:00.000Z-Milhist_coordinator_election_voting_has_commenced_2","replies":[]}}-->

Hi everyone, just a quick reminder that voting for the WikiProject Military history coordinator election closes soon. You only have a day or so left to have your say about who should make up the coordination team for the next year. If you have already voted, thanks for participating! If you haven't and would like to, vote here before 23:59 UTC on 28 September. Thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:29, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-09-26T03:29:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-09-26T03:29:00.000Z-Have_your_say!","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at the use of so-called "substandard" manpower in armies Interview: On the Bugle turning 150 (issues that is!) Op-ed: TomStar81 on the collapse of empires at the close of World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

Dear Thomas, perhaps you could perform a review on Glöck.--Symposiarch (talk) 17:52, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-10-21T17:52:00.000Z","author":"Symposiarch","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Symposiarch-2018-10-21T17:52:00.000Z-\/*_Winegrowing_*\/_Niersteiner_Gl\u00f6ck","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2018-10-21T18:19:00.000Z-Symposiarch-2018-10-21T17:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

Will have a look later in the week and let you know! Tomas e (talk) 18:19, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-10-21T18:19:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2018-10-21T18:19:00.000Z-Symposiarch-2018-10-21T17:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-Symposiarch-2018-10-28T21:41:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2018-10-21T18:19:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for your contribution. Which non-written article/lemma would you rate Wikipedia:WikiProject Wine/Assessment Category:Top-importance article for German wine, if there is ? --Symposiarch (talk) 21:41, 28 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-10-28T21:41:00.000Z","author":"Symposiarch","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Symposiarch-2018-10-28T21:41:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2018-10-21T18:19:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2018-10-30T18:19:00.000Z-Symposiarch-2018-10-28T21:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

I don't really think that there are many unwritten top- or high-importance wine articles. Using memories of my old restrictive view of using the top-level importance (as opposed to the other three), and without checking what the actual ratings are today, I suppose that only German wine and Riesling belong at top level. :-) Most single vineyards and producers belong at low level to me, with a very few exceptions. In my view, the top-importance articles are those you would write for a slim brochure covering the most essential topics in wine. The high-importance are those that you would add to make a small book. The mid-importance are those that you would add to make a thick book (but still a single book). The low-importance articles are those that you would only consider for specialised books or a multi-volume printed encyclopedia. But that's just my view, and I don't spend time to maintain the assessment. To be perfectly honest, I think that many wine producer articles (primarily those about producers in English-speaking countries) don't belong on Wikipedia and are non-encyclopedically written. But even when I was more active some years, I didn't feel it was worth the time correcting most of them, since this would also risk leading to edit-warring with paid or narrow-subject contributors. (I wanted to have time to drink wine as well, to arrange wine tastings, and to visit producers.) Outside the English-speaking world, I think there may still be room to add more producer profiles, as long as we're talking about producers that are highly rated by independent sources. Vineyards in Germany could also be added. While I think that all Grosse Lagen could deserve articles (but not all 2,000+ Einzellagen in Germany, much less all the 20,000+ pre-1971 Einzellagen), perhaps another article structure might be better for the reader. For example, they might be structured by village. But this would be enormous undertaking. For the last couple of years, I've been profiling Champagne villages in blog format. The idea started because I thought there was a lack of printed and overall coverage of peripherial vineyards and single vineyards in Champagne, as opposed to Burgundy. I found that the blog format suited me better than Wikipedia for this task. Best regards, Tomas e (talk) 18:19, 30 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-10-30T18:19:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2018-10-30T18:19:00.000Z-Symposiarch-2018-10-28T21:41:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Peacemaker67 looks at the Sydney Wars Op-ed: TomStar81 on the end of World War I Timeline: This month in World War I

Hello, Tomas e. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-11-19T18:42:00.000Z-ArbCom_2018_election_voter_message","replies":[]}}-->

Nominations for our annual Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards are open until 23:59 (GMT) on 15 December 2018. Why don't you nominate the editors who you believe have made a real difference to the project in 2018? MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:26, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-12-03T02:26:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-12-03T02:26:00.000Z-Nominations_now_open_for_\"Military_historian_of_the_year\"_and_\"Military_history","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Op-ed: Indy beetle looks at military newspapers in East Africa

Voting for our annual Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards is open until 23:59 (GMT) on 30 December 2018. Why don't you vote for the editors who you believe have made a real difference to Wikipedia's coverage of military history in 2018? MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:17, 16 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-12-16T02:17:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2018-12-16T02:17:00.000Z-Voting_now_open_for_\"Military_historian_of_the_year\"_and_\"Military_history_newco","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at Albert Speer Op-ed: Factotem on common problems affecting infoboxes Timeline: This month in World War I

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Review essay: Nick-D on the Japanese battleship Mikasa

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on US Navy aviation safety and Australian war crimes trials

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Peacemaker67, Nick-D and Hawkeye7 look at three books focussing on the World Wars Op-ed: Indy Beetle on the fall of Idi Amin

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on Australia's leadership and medical services in World War II and Peacemaker67 on Israel's targeted assassinations Op-ed: TomStar81 looks at the fate of the German fleet at Scapa Flow

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at the Dambusters, and Hawkeye7 at Allied code breakers and Australia in New Guinea and Vietnam Op-ed: TomStar81 on the treaty that ended World War I

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Haweye7, Peacemaker67 and Nick-D on recent books covering the world wars

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 and Peacemaker67 look at Italian, German and Australian forces in World War II

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 and Peacemaker67 look at Italian, German and Australian forces in World War II

In the month of September, Wikiproject Military history is running a project-wide edit-a-thon, Backlog Banzai. There are heaps of different areas you can work on, for which you claim points, and at the end of the month all sorts of whiz-bang awards will be handed out. Every player wins a prize! There is even a bit of friendly competition built in for those that like that sort of thing. Sign up now at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/September 2019 Backlog Banzai to take part. For the coordinators, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:18, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-22T08:18:00.000Z","author":"Peacemaker67","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Peacemaker67-2019-08-22T08:18:00.000Z-Backlog_Banzai","replies":[]}}-->

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are now open. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the coord team. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:39, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-09-01T02:39:00.000Z","author":"Peacemaker67","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Peacemaker67-2019-09-01T02:39:00.000Z-Wikiproject_Military_history_coordinator_election_nominations_open_2","replies":[]}}-->

G'day everyone, voting for the 2019 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche is now open. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2018. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:37, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-09-15T03:37:00.000Z","author":"Peacemaker67","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Peacemaker67-2019-09-15T03:37:00.000Z-Milhist_coordinator_election_voting_has_commenced_3","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at the legacy of World War II

G'day everyone, the voting for the XIX Coordinator Tranche is at the halfway mark. The candidates have answered various questions, and you can check them out to see why they are running and decide whether you support them. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2018. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:37, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-09-22T07:37:00.000Z","author":"Peacemaker67","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Peacemaker67-2019-09-22T07:37:00.000Z-Wikiproject_Military_history_coordinator_election_half-way_mark","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 and Nick-D look at three works Op-ed: Hawkeye7 on writing a military biography

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Willbb234 on Allied pilots, Hawkeye7 on the defence of Australia and logistics in Indochina, Nick-D on Australian commandos Op-ed: Hawkeye7 reports back on a high-profile history symposium

The article RedJet Records has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Article about a company with no indication of notability.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Mccapra (talk) 21:18, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-11-17T21:18:00.000Z","author":"Mccapra","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mccapra-2019-11-17T21:18:00.000Z-Proposed_deletion_of_RedJet_Records","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2019-11-17T21:26:00.000Z-Mccapra-2019-11-17T21:18:00.000Z"]}}-->

I notice that I "created" the article in 2009 by moving text from a category page, probably when I was trawling through material for WP:Sweden. I have no great interest in the article subject, but since that category is now deleted I can't see who originally added the text. Tomas e (talk) 21:26, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-11-17T21:26:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2019-11-17T21:26:00.000Z-Mccapra-2019-11-17T21:18:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello! Voting in the 2019 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 on Monday, 2 December 2019. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2019 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:10, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-11-19T00:10:00.000Z","author":"MediaWiki message delivery","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2019-11-19T00:10:00.000Z-ArbCom_2019_election_voter_message","replies":[]}}-->

A tag has been placed on RedJet Records, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Atlantic306 (talk) 00:04, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-11-24T00:04:00.000Z","author":"Atlantic306","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Atlantic306-2019-11-24T00:04:00.000Z-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_RedJet_Records","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2019-11-24T18:52:00.000Z-Atlantic306-2019-11-24T00:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

As above. No particular view. Tomas e (talk) 18:52, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-11-24T18:52:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2019-11-24T18:52:00.000Z-Atlantic306-2019-11-24T00:04:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 and Nick-D look at works on aspects of the Second World War and Cold War

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 on Jim Mattis

The article De vilda helgonen has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Does not meet WP:RPRGM

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. BonkHindrance (talk) 02:28, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-02-17T02:28:00.000Z","author":"BonkHindrance","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BonkHindrance-2020-02-17T02:28:00.000Z-Proposed_deletion_of_De_vilda_helgonen","replies":[]}}-->

The article Albert och Evelina has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Fails WP:GNG

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Seems I just assessed this (and the previous one) for WP:Sweden way back in 2014. I have no view on the PROD. Tomas e (talk) 00:49, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-02-18T00:49:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2020-02-18T00:49:00.000Z-BonkHindrance-2020-02-17T02:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at a failed German counterattack in the Battle of Normandy

G'day all, March Madness 2020 is about to get underway, and there is bling aplenty for those who want to get stuck into the backlog by way of tagging, assessing, updating, adding or improving resources and creating articles. If you haven't already signed up to participate, why not? The more the merrier! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:19, 29 February 2020 (UTC) for the coord team[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-02-29T08:19:00.000Z","author":"Peacemaker67","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Peacemaker67-2020-02-29T08:19:00.000Z-March_Madness_2020","replies":[]}}-->

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Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Hawkeye7 looks at the logistics behind the Crusades and the USAF's early Cold War nuclear deterrant

Jonathan Rosenhead has a sentence which ends "...resulted in a number." Since he is a mathematician this would be quite interesting, but I feel you meant to write "a number of theorems." or "a number of courses being set up." or "a number of cream cakes." or something similar. All the best: Rich Farmbrough (the apparently calm and reasonable) 10:59, 29 April 2020 (UTC).[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-04-29T10:59:00.000Z","author":"Rich Farmbrough","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rich_Farmbrough-2020-04-29T10:59:00.000Z-Can_you_complete?","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2020-04-29T12:08:00.000Z-Rich_Farmbrough-2020-04-29T10:59:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Rich"}}-->

Well, since it is soft OR it's more likely to be a number of cream cakes than a number of theorems. :-) It definitely looks like an unfinished sentence. I remember I wrote this article when I was writing something about the history of OR and noticed that there was no article on Rosenhead, while checking several books and papers in parallell. Tomas e (talk) 12:08, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-04-29T12:08:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2020-04-29T12:08:00.000Z-Rich_Farmbrough-2020-04-29T10:59:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D and Hawkeye7 look at fortifications, the German Army, and post-Cold War conflict

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D looks at the naval siege of Japan in 1945

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D on Hadrian's Wall and Hawkeye7 on the British military Op-ed: Nick-D on diversity and military history

Hello Tomas! On what literature did you base the creation of this redirect? Best wishes, --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:12, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-07-14T13:12:00.000Z","author":"SergeWoodzing","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SergeWoodzing-2020-07-14T13:12:00.000Z-N\u00e4mndeman_is_the_equivalent_of:_?","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2020-07-14T19:09:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2020-07-14T13:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

Dear SergeWoodzing, you must have a lot of faith in my memory, since you ask about a redirect I created 11 years, 1 month and 6 days ago! :-) The honest answer is that I don't remember, but by checking other articles I edited at the time I can make an educated guess. My best guess is that I used Domstolsverket's information in English about Swedish courts, since I seem to have used that information to create the first version of the article Judiciary of Sweden, this one. By the way, I was a nämndeman myself 2006-2008 so I had some interest in the subject. From memory, I have heard/seen both "lay judge" and "lay assessor" as translation. "Lay judge" is a direct translation of the Swedish term lekmannadomare which is an alternative Swedish language description of the role of a nämndeman. However, translating legal terminology between Swedish and English is quite tricky, since UK/US and Sweden belong to completely different spheres of legal tradition, so I would recommend using official translations provided by Swedish courts. Since I know that you often take an interest in historical subjects, I might add that this redirect was made with the contemporary role of nämndemän in mind. It could be that another term is more appropriate for historical times, when there were no (or very few) professional/regular judges in the Swedish countryside. An obvious alternative direct could be Judiciary of Sweden#Lay judges, so the term redirects to an explanation rather than just a term. By the way, SergeWoodzing, I'm not sure if edit summaries such as this one and this one, show good judgment or adherence to Wikipedia:Civility. Best regards, Tomas e (talk) 19:09, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-07-14T19:09:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2020-07-14T19:09:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2020-07-14T13:12:00.000Z","replies":["c-SergeWoodzing-2020-07-15T13:50:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2020-07-14T19:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

I was pleased & grateful for your extensive reply till I got to your little attack at the end. Can't see anything uncivil about either edit. Please report me so we can get some help on that! It will be my first time since I logged in in 2008.

Hardly makes me feel like continuing to talk with you i sak, but anyway: have you heard the term "permanent juror" for nämndeman? It's the only one I've seen in legitimate literature that makes sense to me. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:50, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-07-15T13:50:00.000Z","author":"SergeWoodzing","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SergeWoodzing-2020-07-15T13:50:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2020-07-14T19:09:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2020-07-18T10:08:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2020-07-15T13:50:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've not heard the term permanent juror. It seems like an inappropriate term, since the role of a nämndeman is not really the same as that of a juror in a jury as in e.g. grand jury. Both lay assessor and lay judge convey the role better. (If I were to invent my own term, which I shouldn't, I would perhaps use "lay co-judge" to convey the role of layman, part of the entire judging process, but not the same role as a professional judge.) As to "legitimate literature", surely official translations from Swedish governmental agencies are the relevant ones for current-day terms?
I'm also sorry to hear that you don't understand my comment about your edit summaries. I'm trying to be helpful, since I recognize your user name from both here and elsewhere. If you feel that your use of edit summaries is impeccable, despite Help:Edit summaries#What to avoid in edit summaries, then ignore my comment. All the best and take care, Tomas e (talk) 10:08, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-07-18T10:08:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2020-07-18T10:08:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2020-07-15T13:50:00.000Z","replies":["c-SergeWoodzing-2020-07-18T11:12:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2020-07-18T10:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

English is my first language & I learned Swedish when I was in my teens. I've taught English intermittently since the 1960s and have done lots of well-paid special work correcting, adjusting and adapting English text by and for Swedes, even academic people. My confidence in any English text written by any Swede is statistically low, especially, I might add, any item by the Swedish government or other official source like that. The poor quality of official English written by Swedes, generally, is absolutely astounding, and the headstrong attitude often spicing up its creation has not exactly decreased since 1968. But like Mae West said about censorship: "I ain't complainin'. I've made a career our of it".

If I were to translate nämndeman in my work I would probably use something like "deputy judge".

Accusing someone of incivility where there was none is never helpful. It's a reaction I think we all have at times, unfortunately, when we see someone else do something to an article that we personally do not like. Just editing an article without sarcasm or rude remarks or snide sideswipes (such as "your user name from both here and elsewhere [my italics]") is not uncivil, even if the edit irritates someone. I often concede my mistakes and often apologize. Best wishes to you too. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 11:12, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-07-18T11:12:00.000Z","author":"SergeWoodzing","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-SergeWoodzing-2020-07-18T11:12:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2020-07-18T10:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Recent external reviews Op-ed: Nick-D on 1945

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are now open. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the coord team. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:06, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-09-01T02:06:00.000Z","author":"Peacemaker67","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Peacemaker67-2020-09-01T02:06:00.000Z-Wikiproject_Military_history_coordinator_election_nominations_open_3","replies":[]}}-->

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