Hi TP. In your recent edit to Onji, you've added "and an on may consist of more than one syllable". Are you thinking of something like kyo? I believe that that is just one syllable unless mispronounced. Or have I missed something? --Yumegusa (talk) 17:00, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-29T17:00:00.000Z","author":"Yumegusa","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Yumegusa-2010-04-29T17:00:00.000Z-on\/syllable","replies":["c-Tesspub-2010-04-29T19:10:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-04-29T17:00:00.000Z","c-Tesspub-2010-04-30T07:58:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-04-29T17:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

I am, yes. The context is the (loose!) connection between English syllables and Japanese on. While I understand that kyo is perceived as a single sound to a Japanese speaker, I cannot believe that any English speaker would ever perceive it as a single syllable. Hm.. wasn't intending to be controversial here! The truth is, it doesn't really make sense to talk about "English syllables" within Japanese words, and I think that lies at the root of the problem. Tesspub (talk) 19:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-29T19:10:00.000Z","author":"Tesspub","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tesspub-2010-04-29T19:10:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-04-29T17:00:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Further thoughts... how many syllables in "kyo"? About 1.7. How many on in "strength"? About 5.2. Maybe. I guess what I was trying to say was "some on may be perceived by English-speakers are consisting of more than one syllable". But I realise that is crying out for "citation required" note. What do you think? Just revert? Tesspub (talk) 07:58, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-30T07:58:00.000Z","author":"Tesspub","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tesspub-2010-04-30T07:58:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-04-29T17:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-Yumegusa-2010-05-02T12:21:00.000Z-Tesspub-2010-04-30T07:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

How many in 'few'? --Yumegusa (talk) 12:21, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-02T12:21:00.000Z","author":"Yumegusa","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Yumegusa-2010-05-02T12:21:00.000Z-Tesspub-2010-04-30T07:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tesspub-2010-05-02T13:02:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-05-02T12:21:00.000Z"]}}-->

I think the truth is that neither "mora" nor "syllable" are well-defined. Bizarrely, the only thing in this whole discussion that is well-defined is onji. We (people who try to discuss haiku) are trying to explain something precise in terms of other things that are vague. It's interesting that so many articles on morae, focus on the Japanese language. I think the linguists are trying to derive legitimacy for their ideas from a place where they happen to work reasonably well. As I've mentioned before, I am a sceptic! Tesspub (talk) 13:02, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-02T13:02:00.000Z","author":"Tesspub","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Tesspub-2010-05-02T13:02:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-05-02T12:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi TP Here's something I found, which may be useful: WHR 4-1 - scroll down to (3) The Third Neo-classical Haiku Commandment: Kireji --candyworm (talk) 11:40, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-09-14T11:40:00.000Z","author":"Yumegusa","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Yumegusa-2010-09-14T11:40:00.000Z-kireji","replies":["c-Tesspub-2010-09-15T09:07:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-09-14T11:40:00.000Z"],"displayName":"candyworm"}}-->

Thank you CW/Y.

"We must ask ourselves, 'Cut what from what?' It is my theory that originally it could have meant to cut the hokku itself from the rest, namely, kireji meant those words which were believed to help cut (separate) a hokku from the rest of the stanzas in haikai-no-renga, i.e. to help it to stand alone."

The above is what I thought you were telling me back in the Spring. Perhaps I misunderstood your objection to my interpretation.Tesspub (talk) 09:07, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-09-15T09:07:00.000Z","author":"Tesspub","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tesspub-2010-09-15T09:07:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-09-14T11:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Yumegusa-2010-09-15T10:43:00.000Z-Tesspub-2010-09-15T09:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

You've lost me with your last sentence. Takiguchi's point is that none of the renga stanzas can stand alone, but rely on their combination with an adjacent verse. That is, none except the hokku, because it contains a kireji, which mirrors (within the hokku) the effect of two adjacent verses. This, he argues, must be done because the hokku (as the first verse of the poem) has no previous verse to link to. So, the effect of the kireji is to make the verse mimic a pair of verses, therefore allowing it to stand as an independent unit (as well as the opening verse of the renga). You might also find this useful: Gabi Greve on kire. --candyworm (talk) 10:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-09-15T10:43:00.000Z","author":"Yumegusa","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Yumegusa-2010-09-15T10:43:00.000Z-Tesspub-2010-09-15T09:07:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tesspub-2010-09-16T09:00:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-09-15T10:43:00.000Z"],"displayName":"candyworm"}}-->

Ah... I HAD misunderstood. That is a very clear explanation. Thank you. Tesspub (talk) 09:00, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-09-16T09:00:00.000Z","author":"Tesspub","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Tesspub-2010-09-16T09:00:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-09-15T10:43:00.000Z","replies":["c-Yumegusa-2010-09-18T23:56:00.000Z-Tesspub-2010-09-16T09:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

Good. Do you think you could work it into the articles (Kireji and Haiku)? --candyworm (talk) 23:56, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-09-18T23:56:00.000Z","author":"Yumegusa","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Yumegusa-2010-09-18T23:56:00.000Z-Tesspub-2010-09-16T09:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tesspub-2010-09-19T10:07:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-09-18T23:56:00.000Z"],"displayName":"candyworm"}}-->

I'm working on it! Tesspub (talk) 10:07, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-09-19T10:07:00.000Z","author":"Tesspub","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Tesspub-2010-09-19T10:07:00.000Z-Yumegusa-2010-09-18T23:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tesspub-2011-04-24T08:48:00.000Z-Tesspub-2010-09-19T10:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

Obviously I didn't get too far! I have just returned from a haiku and renga residential course and now understand the point a lot better - so maybe... Tesspub (talk) 08:48, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-24T08:48:00.000Z","author":"Tesspub","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Tesspub-2011-04-24T08:48:00.000Z-Tesspub-2010-09-19T10:07:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Tess, you expressed an interest in this section on the John Higgins (snooker player) article. There is currently a dispute over what should included, so as an interested party I'm letting you know there is a discussion at Talk:John Higgins (snooker player)#Content removal from the "Suspension" section. You're welcome to participate if you wish. Betty Logan (talk) 17:23, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-12-20T17:23:00.000Z","author":"Betty Logan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Betty_Logan-2010-12-20T17:23:00.000Z-John_Higgins_(snooker_player)","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Tess, follow the three steps here to list an article for AfD (if you miss one out a bot will usually correct it for you). Generally admins are unwilling to speedy articles with references or which have existed for a long time, it's best to discuss their fate so that notability/verifiability concerns can be properly scrutinised. Have a nice day. - filelakeshoe 00:26, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-28T00:26:00.000Z","author":"Filelakeshoe","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Filelakeshoe-2011-04-28T00:26:00.000Z-AfD","replies":[],"displayName":"filelake"}}-->

An article cannot be tagged for speedy deletion if it asserts a significance or has a list of references.Wikipedia is not about who has written an article and how an article is written.It is about referencing the articles with third party sources.Issues to this article was resolved earlier by User:Yumegusa.Still if you have problem with any article you can tag it for reference or notability. --Diameter 05:22, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-28T05:22:00.000Z","author":"Yumegusa","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Yumegusa-2011-04-28T05:22:00.000Z-Speedy_Deletion","replies":[],"displayName":"User:Yumegusa"}}-->

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Should work with 'move' - just put Gendai in in the target title box. Tag the leftover redirect with {{db-r3}}. If you aren't happy about doing it (good practice if you've not done it before...) I'll do it. I usually just delete these things and let whoever tagged it get on with things as they usually know more about what they're doing than I do (me knowing about what they're doing, that is). Peridon (talk) 20:34, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-02T20:34:00.000Z","author":"Peridon","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Peridon-2011-05-02T20:34:00.000Z-Gendai","replies":[]}}-->

Yeah I assumed it would be a dynamic one, but there was always the chance that the vandal would still be logged in and see it. Plus, a user (whether they're an IP user or one that's signed up) has to be given 5 vandalism warnings before an admin will block them. So it was necessary. Thanks! Jac _roe 08:05, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-10T08:05:00.000Z","author":"Jacroe","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jacroe-2013-11-10T08:05:00.000Z-Reply_to_BT_IP_Addres","replies":[],"displayName":"Jac"}}-->

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