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The Civility Barnstar
Thank you for your patience and diligence throughout a generally difficult series of interactions, and your maintenance of civility in the face of so many accusations of bad faith. It helped me immensely as I tried to do the same. AntiDionysius (talk) 02:17, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241029021700","author":"AntiDionysius","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AntiDionysius-20241029021700-A_barnstar_for_you!","replies":["c-MrOllie-20241029021800-AntiDionysius-20241029021700"]}}-->
Immensely, and sometimes it's good to make that appreciation explicit :+) AntiDionysius (talk) 02:22, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241029022200","author":"AntiDionysius","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-AntiDionysius-20241029022200-MrOllie-20241029021800","replies":[]}}-->
Hello Sir, Can you please guide me with the right way about how can I get backlinks from Wikipedia. The part I added as an addition to the article, previously, was a small portion of a high quality content from my website. Also, I added the link the link to the same article. Can you please guide because I'm new to this field. Muneeb2332 (talk) 18:34, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241029183400","author":"Muneeb2332","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Muneeb2332-20241029183400-Backlinks","replies":["c-MrOllie-20241029184100-Muneeb2332-20241029183400"]}}-->
You can't. There is no way to get backlinks from Wikipedia, and all outgoing links are tagged nofollow and would not help with SEO anyway. - MrOllie (talk) 18:41, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241029184100","author":"MrOllie","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-MrOllie-20241029184100-Muneeb2332-20241029183400","replies":[]}}-->
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Please refrain from placing opinion based political bias on the tim pool page, thanks! DanMan3395 (talk) 23:15, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241029231500","author":"DanMan3395","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DanMan3395-20241029231500-Wikipedia_Bias_policy_on_living_persons.","replies":["c-MrOllie-20241029231600-DanMan3395-20241029231500"]}}-->
What are you talking about? Wikipedia doesn't have a 'Bias' policy. Stop deleting chunks of the article. If you have some kind of point to make, make it on the article's talk page. MrOllie (talk) 23:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241029231600","author":"MrOllie","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-MrOllie-20241029231600-DanMan3395-20241029231500","replies":[]}}-->
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I did not know, that one may only link, that already have a wikipedia article. Is this really a rule??? I checked the notability of course, CryptPad is a long existing project, mentioned in the media and it got public money from funds of EU and is part of open source projects from france and germany. I can try to create a wikipedia article but isn't this usally much harder since new wikipedia articles get removed often? To my understanding wikipedia is about incrementally build knowledge, so this a a catch 22:
no link without article
no article without fully complete text with hundereds of references (sorry for the exaggeration), so that no wikipeda admin delte it within seconds
no chance to incremenentally build something, because it has to be perfect or it gets deleted
Adding something new to wikipedia got hard these days, only extending existing pages is easy. Again sorry for my complaint. Please clarify or link the rule "no link without wikipedia page", this is really new to me and I'm willing to learn. Of course this will not automatically lead to doing so, as my exaggerated explanation above shows how hard this would be IMHO. Thanks. 149.172.27.82 (talk) 14:05, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241101140500","author":"149.172.27.82","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-149.172.27.82-20241101140500-List_of_office_suites,_removed_entry","replies":["c-MrOllie-20241101141900-149.172.27.82-20241101140500"]}}-->
I did not know, that one may only link, that already have a wikipedia article. Is this really a rule???
That (and the template you also changed) are lists of suites that have a preexisting Wikipedia article, yes. We need to have some inclusion criteria for the list, and that is the one we use. If you want to incrementally build a new article without concern of deletion, we have a draft space for that. Details are at WP:AFC. MrOllie (talk) 14:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241101141900","author":"MrOllie","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-MrOllie-20241101141900-149.172.27.82-20241101140500","replies":["c-149.172.27.82-20241101144400-MrOllie-20241101141900"]}}-->
You did not prove your argument. You repeated it, but you did not prove it. To my understanding from the wikipedia rules you are right that for every single item of list the wikipedia rules of notability apply - which I complied to. You are also right that an existing wikipedia page (usally) is a prove of notability, this is self explaining. But you are not right that any list item without a wikipedia page is automatically not notabale. This is stated nowhere to my understanding and you did not provide a link or prove. Of course there may exist lvalid ist items without a wikipedia article. This is seldom, so I see your poitn here, but not impossible.
If I would have added Albert Einstein to a list of noble prize winners, including a reference, but Albert Eisntein woudl have no wikipedia article, then this list item would of course be notable and right and because of the public awareness you would not delete the list item. So again, please explain to me, why or where an existing wikipedia page is requirement. It is a (strong) evidence, one evidence, but not the only one.
Regarding WP:AFC this is no protection of getting deleted in the public wikipedia, it's only a safe space to do a lot of work and then get delted or not upon publishing.
If you show me the prove, ok. But if there is no prove you are actign against your own interests: Extending wikipedia with relevant knowledge. I can image that you have to clear up wikipedia all the times, especially because of lackign notability. But you shpudl also consider if there are edge cases any you are acting, because it does not look good to have a list full of items with wikipedia articles and one without or because you spend so much time and are right almost always.
We can discuss the notability of the case and I can try to prove it. But at the moment the rule of no list items without wikipedia article seems to be a simplification made from you, so this would not be fair - and against the wikipedia rules. Of course, I don't have your wikipedia knowledge, so I apologize if I'm false or if I have hurt you, that's why I asked for link (aka prove) in my initial statement. Thanks again. 149.172.27.82 (talk) 14:44, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241101144400","author":"149.172.27.82","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-149.172.27.82-20241101144400-MrOllie-20241101141900","replies":["c-MrOllie-20241101145000-149.172.27.82-20241101144400"]}}-->
I'm telling you what the inclusion criteria is for the particular list you modified. The points you are making about other lists or about creating new articles are irrelevant to that. My user talk page is not a place to try to 'prove' irrelevancies. If you have further questions along those lines, feel free to ask at WP:TEAHOUSE. MrOllie (talk) 14:50, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241101145000","author":"MrOllie","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-MrOllie-20241101145000-149.172.27.82-20241101144400","replies":["c-149.172.27.82-20241101150000-MrOllie-20241101145000"]}}-->
You stated: "I'm telling you what the inclusion criteria is for the particular list you modified."
This is not your original statment, this is a new arguement.
Orignally you argued on my user page by the notability guideline - which I complied to.
Now you are arguing by "inclusion criteria for the particular list". So where can I please find them?
Thanks. 149.172.27.82 (talk) 15:00, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241101150000","author":"149.172.27.82","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-149.172.27.82-20241101150000-MrOllie-20241101145000","replies":["c-MrOllie-20241101150200-149.172.27.82-20241101150000"]}}-->
I'm not arguing anything, we're not having a debate. MrOllie (talk) 15:02, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241101150200","author":"MrOllie","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-MrOllie-20241101150200-149.172.27.82-20241101150000","replies":["c-149.172.27.82-20241101151800-MrOllie-20241101150200"]}}-->
You messaged me on my discussion page. You also state in general, that you only answer on your discussion page. And the discussion page is for discussions. So this is the right place.
You edited one of my edits. You linked an explanation (WP:notability) which does not apply. So I asked you for the correct rules, which you don't provide.
At the moment this would be an action from you based on rules from you, not from wikipedia. I asked you and ask you politely and civilized for clarfication of this potential misunderstanding. Instead you block the conservation, so that I have to live with your personal decision about my edit.
Rules are applying to all. If one does not apply to a rule, one has to explain which rule it was. A set of transparent rules is the base of democracy. I asked you politely to make the rule transparent, since you initially linked rules that do not apply. In response you justify this with other rules ("inclusion criteria for the particular list") which you don't link or publish.
Thanks in advance. 149.172.27.82 (talk) 15:18, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241101151800","author":"149.172.27.82","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-149.172.27.82-20241101151800-MrOllie-20241101150200","replies":["c-MrOllie-20241101152400-149.172.27.82-20241101151800"]}}-->
The message you got on your own user talk page is the standard template text everyone gets when they add something to a list that doesn't meet inclusion criteria. It was a form letter. You seem to have developed an impression that Wikipedia operates on an inflexible system of laws or rules, applied mechanistically across the whole project. But that is not how Wikipedia works at all (see WP:WIKILAWYER).
List article inclusion criteria vary from list to list. You will not find some 'rule' that says every list everywhere follows such and such criteria. One easy way to know that you weren't following the list criteria would be to note that every existing entry on the list linked to a Wikipedia article. Once again, if you have general questions about 'rules' on Wikipedia, take them to WP:TEAHOUSE. You wrote that A set of transparent rules is the base of democracy. - You should have a read of WP:NOTDEMOCRACY and WP:NOTBURO. MrOllie (talk) 15:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241101152400","author":"MrOllie","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-MrOllie-20241101152400-149.172.27.82-20241101151800","replies":["c-149.172.27.82-20241101155500-MrOllie-20241101152400"]}}-->
Thanks for you reply. I would like to point you to some bad behaviour you have made:
1. If you post a standard template text as a justification foru your edit you have to expect that users take your posted standard template for granted and ask questions if it is not applicable.
2. Your explanation of an otherwise infexible system of laws and rules and according linking of WP:NOTDEMOCRACY and WP:NOTBURO is comprehensible but indistinguishable from rules you may have imagined yourself or rules that apply, because you have a stronger wikipedia position or more possibilities than me.
3. Your stating of "easy way to know" I was not following the rules is impolite, because as we see it is not that easy. Without the word "eays" it would be neutral and I suppose this was emotionally.
4. I don't have general questions about rules on wikipedia, I had questions about your rules on wikipedia, which you finally explained now. Thanks. So please csonider, if you are false when you try to end a discussion on your talk page, although the talk pages are made for this.
So summing up:
You may be right, you may be wrong, according to your explanations one can not know this. Please consider this for your future talking to users.
As explained it is difficult to fulfill "the" rule of creating a wikipedia page first. So regarding the motiviation to extend wikipedia it's enough for me for now. This may be be something you wanted, if you suppose WP:COI regarding me, if so tell it to me at first contact, if not you may reconsider your behaviour. If you think you are helping by blocking or acting as guardian for users then the reality is you are and you are not at once.
I'm thanking you for your engagment in wikipedia, but considering me and today you were impolite and of little help. You coudl have reacted much better to my first posting on your talk page.
Regards. 149.172.27.82 (talk) 15:55, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241101155500","author":"149.172.27.82","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-149.172.27.82-20241101155500-MrOllie-20241101152400","replies":[]}}-->
