This user is no longer active on Wikipedia as of 29 June 2021. I have decided to stop contributing to Wikipedia articles. I will continue maintaining certain essays that some users have told me they find useful.
Guy, I see you editing now and then. Can't you please come back for real? You're missed. EEng21:08, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240822210800","author":"EEng","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-EEng-20240822210800-Periodic_imploring","replies":[],"displayName":"E"}}-->
^ He's right, you know. Whatever you're doing, I hope you're doing well. Yngvadottir (talk) 03:04, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240823030400","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-20240823030400-Periodic_imploring","replies":[]}}-->
Not exactly doing well -- medical problems -- but I am optimistic about having a full recovery.
I would love to go back to editing articles, but there is one thing stopping me. There is an admin who [a] called me a liar and said that they can't believe anything I say, [b] made up a new rule (I am not allowed to refer to certain individuals by their Wikipedia username) and, [c] blocked me without warning for violating the new rule. I really was trying to do what I thought was the right thing and avoid offense, but of course if I say that I am lying. :( I would also note that the individual who I supposedly offended by calling them by their username never objected (I would have stopped if asked) but instead a third party well known for shit-stirring over political and gender issues reported me.
I would have stopped the behavior and simply never interacted with that user again if asked. I always stop any behaviour that anyone asks me to stop, whether I agree or not. Far better to talk things over than going straight to blocking (for admins) or edit warring (for regular users).
Whether I am right or not, it is my belief that this one admin dislikes me enough to make up another new rule and block me for it if I start editing articles again. If someone else was willing to ask them to step aside and let other admins deal with any misbehavior on my part, I could get beck to full editing. I would be glad to agree to having one of you promise to keep an eye on my actions and report anything I do that is against policy. I would also be glad to have another admin say that they will keep a close eye on me.
What I am NOT willing to do is to interact with an admin who I believe has a personal animosity against me, and I am also unwilling to name them here or criticize them publicly and risk further enraging them. If anyone reading this is willing to act as a neutral third party and ask them to step aside and let other admins deal with me, please email me. I may not answer for a few days because of medical issues, so please be patient. --Guy Macon (talk) 18:13, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240827181300","author":"Guy Macon","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Guy_Macon-20240827181300-Periodic_imploring","replies":["c-Yngvadottir-20240828033500-Guy_Macon-20240827181300","c-EEng-20240828035600-Guy_Macon-20240827181300","c-Sluzzelin-20240830233800-Guy_Macon-20240827181300"]}}-->
First and foremost, I hope you do indeed fully recover, and please look after yourself. I've refreshed my memory about your block. Please bear in mind that I am so far as I know not on the spectrum, so I can be annoyingly unclear without realising it. But consider that a lot of us went a bit barmy/nuts during the pandemic (and it isn't over yet) and in retrospect, weren't thinking as clearly as we thought we were. My understanding is: (a) You have an interaction ban, which you have been respecting, so there's no need for further discussion of that. (b) The admin in question said back in 2021 that they would not post here again. (c) (this is getting more into my personal understanding of how things work on Wikipedia) For that admin to keep watch over your edits would be frowned on, especially 3 years on from your being unblocked. (d) I'm not aware of you doing anything contentious since then (except possibly disrespecting the WMF, which to me is more of a duty than an infraction, providing one is civil toward individual employees and other editors); you've kept your nose clean and there's no reason not to presume you will not continue to do so. (e) on the specific precipitating issue, I note you use singular they above, and (partly for anyone else reading here) that Tamzin wrote an explanatory essay and also said at the time that they were open to questions; that may still be true. I am not a good person to ask to monitor edits; for one thing, I limit my edits each month, and for another, I often go by the spirit of the rules rather than citing chapter and verse. But if you want, I can send someone an e-mail to verify a few of my presumptions. Do you want me to, or are my assurances enough for now ... once you feel better? Because above all, look after yourself. Yngvadottir (talk) 03:35, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828033500","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-20240828033500-Guy_Macon-20240827181300","replies":[]}}-->
Guy, here's what I want you to do: (1) get to that full recovery; (2) once that's behind you, contact me and Yngvadottir (who, I am sure, will not mind my volunteering them) so we can help you find a path back. You may remember when, years ago, there was some misunderstanding between us which we successfully navigated past, to the point where we became good friends. Together we can get past this situation too. Good luck, and let's hear from you when you're ready. EEng03:56, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828035600","author":"EEng","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-EEng-20240828035600-Guy_Macon-20240827181300","replies":["c-Guy_Macon-20240828144500-EEng-20240828035600"],"displayName":"E"}}-->
Thanks to both of you. I will post back here after I get some medical treatments that may help my condition. For anyone else reading this, at one time I hated the singular "they" and felt that I was being forced to use what I learned in school to be bad grammar. The fact that a bunch of people tried to change my mind by calling me a homophobe and transphobe (I deny this. I have volunteered a significant amount of my time working towards equal right for the LGBTQ+ community and see no reason why they should be treated differently in any way.) made me dig in my heels even further. I rally felt like I was being bullied. Then they started spreading the accusation on Reddit and Wikipediocracy, so now whenever you Google my name you see me listed as a homophobe.
I honestly thought that avoiding both "him" and "they" and calling the person by their username was a good way to avoid offense. And I was and still am very angry that instead of simply asking me to stop doing that an admin destroyed my perfect record of no blocks. Especally because of what I believe is personal dislike towards me.
One person -- one single person out of the dozens who blasted me -- made an effort to actually discuss the grammar aspect. And they convinced me that I was wrong and that a singular they/them isn't bad grammar! So that's one more reason why I don't think that my behavior regarding prounouns will ever again be seen as problemetic by any admin other than the one who drove me away from being an active contributor.
On a more positive note, it really lifted my spirits being reminded of our friendship and how it had a rocky start. So whatever happens, thank you for that. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:45, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828144500","author":"Guy Macon","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Guy_Macon-20240828144500-EEng-20240828035600","replies":["c-EEng-20240828192700-Guy_Macon-20240828144500"]}}-->
Re my perfect record of no blocks: Remember, Guy ... When life gives you blocks, make blockade.EEng19:27, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240828192700","author":"EEng","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-EEng-20240828192700-Guy_Macon-20240828144500","replies":[],"displayName":"E"}}-->
Count me among those who wish you find a way that works for you to return as that contributor as whom I remember you. ---Sluzzelintalk23:38, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240830233800","author":"Sluzzelin","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Sluzzelin-20240830233800-Guy_Macon-20240827181300","replies":[]}}-->
Sorry to hear about your poor health - get well soon! I also would like to see you editing regularly! BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!08:06, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240831080600","author":"Bastun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bastun-20240831080600-Periodic_imploring","replies":[]}}-->
We miss you Gahex220 (talk) 19:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241127195300","author":"Gahex220","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gahex220-20241127195300-Periodic_imploring","replies":[]}}-->
I have been thinking about this a lot, but writing the following caused me to come to a decision:
I think that I should return to editing articles about alternate medicine. I think people are being misled and hurt and that I can help. Also, my health issues appear to have stabilized. So I am officially asking for help in overcoming the issues that caused me to mostly stop editing articles.
Here is some background for those who are unfamiliar with the situation. I may be convinced to change my mind later, but for now I do NOT wish to name names, provide diffs, or in any way reopen a dispute from years ago,
I also should mention that I am a high-functioning autistic. This is not in any way an excuse for any behavior, but it might help if anyone wishes to understand the way my mind words.
In 2021 I made a mistake. I took a position on gender pronouns based upon what I was taught in school -- a position that is now unpopular. I tried to maintain my wrong opinion while doing my level best to accommodate others and not cause offense, but it became clear that unless I bent the knee and pretended to agree with something I thought was wrong, the attacks would never stop.
Among all of my attackers, one single person approached me with the attitude of "I also think you are wrong, so let's discuss it and see if I can convince you or you can convince me." The result of that discussion was that I realized that I was the one who was wrong. Actually, factually wrong. What I had been taught about the history of gender pronouns was false. The singular they is far, far older than most people think.
That's when I discovered another nasty truth. No amount of saying "I was wrong" and no amount of apologizing or groveling will ever stop the attacks. Once you express a wrong opinion related to gender you are evil incarnate forever. All the hours you previously put in fighting for equal marriage rights do not matter. You expressed a wrong opinion, and so you are scum for eternity.
In the midst of this I was blocked for a short period by an admin who made several statements indicating that they have a personal animosity towards me. I pretty much withdrew from participating in creating the encyclopedia at that point.
I don't want to publicly criticize of even identify the admin, but if they simply agreed -- without any admission of fault -- to step away and let the other admins handle any bad behavior on my part, I would be willing to resume editing articles. Otherwise, no. It is my belief that I will do something wrong and instead of being asked to stop doing it I will be blocked indefinitely and thus no longer be able to update essays that are important to me such as WP:CANCER, WP:1AM, and WP:YWAB
If someone is willing to act as a mediator between us, I would welcome that. I will not, under any circumstances, directly interact with the admin.
Hi, Guy - great to hear you're doing better! I'd be willing to act as mediator, if you think it'd help. My email is open. Just to note, though, I'm travelling from tomorrow until Tuesday, and won't have proper access to my WP email until I'm back. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!12:51, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241128125100","author":"Bastun","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bastun-20241128125100-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241127215200","replies":["c-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241201000200-Bastun-20241128125100","c-EEng-20241130071700-Bastun-20241128125100"]}}-->
Thanks! Please coordinate with EEng. I think that having multiple people on my side will help, as I expect that the multiple people who think I am worse than hitler are likely to weigh in when they get wind that I might come back. :( --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 00:02, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201000200","author":"Guy Macon Alternate Account","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241201000200-Bastun-20241128125100","replies":[]}}-->
Hey Guy. As I think I've mentioned before, I don't know the background to whatever it is that happened. But as I've also mentioned before, I'd really like to see you back happily editing. So I'll be watching here for anything I can do to help. Looks like Yngvadottir hasn't edited in 3 or 4 days, so he won't have seen recent posts here, but I'm sure I speak for them as well. EEng07:17, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241130071700","author":"EEng","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-EEng-20241130071700-Bastun-20241128125100","replies":["c-Shearonink-20241130143300-EEng-20241130071700"],"displayName":"E"}}-->
I'm nobody but so many people have left recently, it's sad... I wrote on my page a long time ago and it seems more and more true today:
"And I really hate it when good editors feel they have to leave...I mean, I can understand retiring, but I miss so many people who aren't around any more for one reason or another."
Stay well, I hope everything works out. - Shearonink (talk) 14:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241130143300","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Shearonink-20241130143300-EEng-20241130071700","replies":[]}}-->
Everybody: Guy, I really really want you to come back. Thanks for the pings from you and EEng. I had an accident and am stuck in the hospital. I have just got access to the net using my old laptop. I should not do any mental heavy lifting. I haven't looked up the names involved. I don't want to make anything worse—I didn't bust my head and I am not currently on any interestung drugs, but my mental fighting weight is v. low. So ... once I can get out of this place and be able to use my desktop comp and clear my head, I will have your back as far as I'm able. I remember the part of it where you understood and said you were sorry. And I wanted you to pass that RfA and still trust your judgement, and your integrity. But right now I can't rely on my own judgement, I'm sorry. :-( Yngvadottir (talk) 21:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241130211800","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-20241130211800-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241127215200","replies":["c-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241201000200-Yngvadottir-20241130211800"]}}-->
No problem. If you feel better, jump in. Get well, while the rest of us hatch some sort of Evil Plot To Detroy Wikipedia. :) --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 00:02, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201000200","author":"Guy Macon Alternate Account","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241201000200-Yngvadottir-20241130211800","replies":[]}}-->
To all: I think a gentle request to a certain admin asking him to agree -- without ain any way admitting any sourt of fault -- to let other admins handle any misbehavior on my part would be a good place to start. If that doesn't work, I can put together a complete timeline with diffs if any one want to know all of the details. To be clear, I will never again have any interaction with the admin in question and if he blocks me again, I plan on scrambling my password and disapearing from Wikipedia rather than fighting a battle I cannot win. --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 20:12, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201201200","author":"Guy Macon Alternate Account","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241201201200-Periodic_imploring","replies":[]}}-->
In the meantime, here is the problem that led me to the decision that I should be part of the solution:
Eugene Lipov and his partner Jamie Mustard, has been targetting the anti-scientology community with the following claims:
Everybody who leaves the Church of Scientology has PTSD.
Doctor Lipov's Overpriced Magic PTSD shots will fix pretty much any problem these anti-scientologists have.
It's a classic case of an alternative medicine snake oil peddler or one of his followers writing up a friendly Wikipedia article on the snake oil.
So if anyone reading this can fix the article or even just least a comment in the NPOVNB discussion, I would really appreciate it.
Several people have remarked that the work I did on the Ayurveda page prevented them from taking "medicine" that contains lead, mercury and arsenic. I think I should get back to doing that sort of work here. --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 21:24, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241202212400","author":"Guy Macon Alternate Account","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241202212400-Periodic_imploring","replies":["c-EEng-20241203024200-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241202212400"]}}-->
Yes indeed. I feel sure we can make that happen. EEng02:42, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241203024200","author":"EEng","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-EEng-20241203024200-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241202212400","replies":["c-Tryptofish-20241205002100-EEng-20241203024200"],"displayName":"E"}}-->
When the right time comes, I can try to help with this if I can. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241205002100","author":"Tryptofish","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Tryptofish-20241205002100-EEng-20241203024200","replies":[]}}-->
Arbor-treeish break
OK, Bastun, I guess we're the point of the spear. The first job is to understand exactly what happened. (Maybe you already do -- I don't. Do you?) I've got a short list of links to old discussions and posts which I think will unlock the mystery, but with Thanksgiving and some personal pressures I won't be able to give them any time, and then work with you to formulate a plan, for at least another eleven days. Luckily, there's no hurry (as much as I know we'd like Guy back soon, it has been three years so a little more time won't matter). EEng22:48, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241201224800","author":"EEng","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-EEng-20241201224800-Arbor-treeish_break","replies":["c-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241214191100-EEng-20241201224800"],"displayName":"E"}}-->
I won't be available until the first week of 2025 (you would not believe how difficult it has become delivering all those toys to all of those children!) so please hold of on doing anything until then. Thanks! --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 19:11, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241214191100","author":"Guy Macon Alternate Account","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241214191100-EEng-20241201224800","replies":["c-EEng-20241214200500-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241214191100"]}}-->
Ho! Ho! Ho! Just say the word when you're ready, then we'll all convene to find a way to make this work. EEng20:05, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241214200500","author":"EEng","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-EEng-20241214200500-Guy_Macon_Alternate_Account-20241214191100","replies":[],"displayName":"E"}}-->
