TALK PAGE REF REFERENCE TALK PAGE SECTION {{reflist-talk}}

TEAHOUSE INVITATION
{{subst:Wikipedia:Teahouse/Invitation|sign=~~~~}}

[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor Interaction Utility] http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py

THOMAS JEFFERSON REFERENCING STYLE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Thomas_Jefferson/Archive_39#Citations
Talk:Thomas Jefferson/Archive 39#Citations
<ref>[[#abc | Author name, 2000]], p.123</ref><--This is placed within the article text.
{{cite book |last=Smith |first=Alex |title=book title |year=2000 |publisher=publisher name |ref=abc }}<--This is placed within the references.

WIKIPEDIA ADVENTURE INVITE
{{subst:Wikipedia:TWA/Invite|signature=~~~~}}
how to search for thingys

How to PM someone in IRC: /msg username message

How to construct a Notes section: Look at Japanese battleship Musashi

Keeping watch on this IP Keeping watch on this IP

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/major-taylor-worcester-whirlwind-history-cycling Major Taylor etc {{talk archive}}
{{subst:User:Shearonink/ref}}
[[:Help:Cheatsheet]]->>Help:Cheatsheet
{{subst:unsigned|user name or IP|date}}->>Unsigned MISSING SIGNATURE talkpage posts

Wikipedia:External links/Perennial websites

Useful links thingy(users' talkpages)
Here are some useful links that should help you create your article:
*[[Wikipedia:Your first article|Your first article]]
*[[Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners|Referencing for beginners]]
*[[Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)]]
*[[WP:IRS|Reliable sources]]
Hope this helps,

EMERGENCY E-MAIL addresses:

• [email protected]
• [email protected]
• [email protected]

Code on how to use editing toolbar

== Adding references is easy == [[File:Wikipedia- Using Cite option from toolbar.jpg|thumb|450px|Just follow the steps 1, 2 and 3 as shown and fill in the details]] Here's how to [[WP:REFB|add references]] from [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] for the content you add to Wikipedia. This helps maintain our policy of [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verifiability]]. Adding well formatted references is very easy to do. #While editing any article or a wikipage, on the top of the edit window you will see a [[Help:Edit toolbar|toolbar]] which says "'''Cite'''". #Click on it. #Then click on "'''Templates'''" #Choose the most appropriate template and '''fill in as many details as you can'''. This will add a well formatted reference that is helpful in case the [[URL|website link]] becomes [[Wikipedia:Link rot|inactive]] later. You can read more about it on [[Help:Edit toolbar]] or see this video [[:File:RefTools.ogv]].<br /> Hope this helps,

Code for DONE or YES(when answering an edit request)
{{done}} or {{y}}

How to Archive a talkpage
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Menstrual_cycle&diff=518800518&oldid=518766618 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Menstrual_cycle/Archive_index

Shearonink/notes

Shearonink - Master List of useful links

User:SudoGhost/Sandboxes/Red

BBC profile of Mr. Wales

http://translate.google.com/translate?client=safari&hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&twu=1&u=http://www.cycling4fans.de/index.php%3Fid%3D5340

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cate_Kennedy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Derrida#Deconstruction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Derrida_on_deconstruction

User:Chzz/help/sorttable Help:Wikitable

List of battleships of Germany goodFL example for pro cyclists List http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battleships_of_Germany

Brown Dog affair

USE THIS TEMPLATE FOR GA REVIEWs
{{subst:GAList2}}
it will give the following result...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Allie_Reynolds/GA1 User this for a GA Review Template

like THIS GA Review that YOU did...remember?
That subst does the trick...
Causeway Bay Books disappearances

http://blog.freenode.net/2008/04/registering-a-channel-on-freenode/ http://www.wikihow.com/Set-up-Your-Own-IRC-Channel-on-Freenode.Net

• [http://toolserver.org/~betacommand/cgi-bin/uc?uc=Username User compare report] <small>''Auto-generated every hour.''</small>
  
• [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/editorinteract.html Editor interaction utility]

Poetry slam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DangerousPanda#Alternate_Account_Listing

How to hat/answer an off-topic question at ref desks found here
How to import a non-EU vehicle from the U.K. to Poland and register it in the Polish vehicular-traffic?
{{hat|request for legal advice, please contact (whatever authorities). [[Wikipedia:General disclaimer]]}} I want to know about how to import a non-[[European Union|EU]] vehicle from the [[United Kingdom|UK]] to [[Poland]] and register it in the [[Poland|Polish]] vehicular-traffic? ((Off-topic text deleted)) :(Answer to the unsigned-OP) I am sure you can ask the [proper authorities for this issue] - they can provide you with all the information you need, or point you in the right direction. This is an encyclopaedia, not a law firm. ::I have closed this on the basis of [the statement above]. {{hab}}

HOW TO CONVERT A TALK PAGE FROM ClueBot III to lowercase sigmabot III
For an example look at: this edit on Chicbyaccident's talk page
Used Template:MonthlyArchive
It had been:
<!--{{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis |archiveprefix=User talk:Chicbyaccident/Archives/ |format=Y/F |age=2160 |archivebox=yes |box-advert=yes }}--> {{User:ClueBot III/Archive Box|advert=no}} {{User:MiszaBot/config | algo = old(90d) | archive = User talk:Chicbyaccident/Archives/%(year)d/%(monthname)s | archiveheader = {{Talkarchive}} }}
REMOVED:
{{User:ClueBot III/Archive Box|advert=no}}
PUT IN:
{{MonthlyArchive| root = User talk:Chicbyaccident/Archives}} NOW it is:
<!--{{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis |archiveprefix=User talk:Chicbyaccident/Archives/ |format=Y/F |age=2160 |archivebox=yes |box-advert=yes }}--> {{User:MiszaBot/config | algo = old(90d) | archive = User talk:Chicbyaccident/Archives/%(year)d/%(monthname)s | archiveheader = {{Talkarchive}} }} {{MonthlyArchive| root = User talk:Chicbyaccident/Archives}}

If I want to have a Table of Contents without having to make the posts left be a 4, then put __TOC__ after the headers

chuck haber(l) leo caesius

Editor Interaction Utility

File:New editor barnstar.png<-AWESOME new editor barnstar

April 2005 phrasing in Grover Cleveland article

hidden "sic" added to Pocahontas in November 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pocahontas&diff=next&oldid=461029652

take a look at this from time to time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/Ardathekaraof

To use WIKTIONARY inline linkage use an interwiki internal link. For example [[wikt:definition|]] produces definition.

NPP stuff New Pages Feed

IMAGES Centering Caption : Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax

To find out how old some accts are, search their archives

TO QUOTE A POEM OR EPITAPH AS IT APPEARS IN THE ORIGINAL, use {{poemquote}} as in this section from Henrietta Lacks:

See Template:Poemquote for instructions.

To COLLAPSE old stale outdated posts on an IP's Talkpage:

• Put THIS at the top of the talkpage->>{{Old IP warnings top|These previous Blocks & Warnings date from [month/year date] through [month/year date].}}
• Put THIS after the last warning you are hatting->>{{Old IP warnings bottom}}

GA STUFF - about how to do a bundled citation WP:CITEBUNDLE

GA review hmmmmm... Tony Ahn https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Death_march_marker_100.jpg

How to do an anchor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrew_Johnson&curid=1624&diff=757683330&oldid=757526489

->>> WP:CITEBUNDLE for how to bundle citations references instead of having multiple listings

Wikipedia:Triple Crown

Talk:Colours (Ayumi Hamasaki album)/GA1...that GA Review...see this

User:Beeblebrox/fuck off

GAMessage ...<big>[[WP:GA|Wikipedia Good Article]]!!</big>

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchUser=173.72.240.236 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/173.72.240.236

BV 111 edits to one page in one day, 34 edits to another page on the same day, 117 edits to another page - same day... I just don't understand. Shearonink (talk) 04:07, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-03-17T04:07:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shearonink-2017-03-17T04:07:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

[1]

Lincoln

COPYVIO TOOL ->>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/copyvios/

possible sock & master ->> https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users=Kollauwanderer&users=Skeptiker&users=&startdate=&enddate=&ns=&server=enwiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spacetime&diff=prev&oldid=783231665 stigmatella aurantiaca

"George Washington Reconsidered" edited by Don Higginbotham

this & this

Take another look at this deletion of content -> cycling deaths

TEMPLATE EDITNOTICE HARVARD CITES
HOW TO DO THIS EDITNOTICES STUFF

@Shearonink: Edit notices are created in a pseudo-namespace at Template:Editnotices/Page/___. I've created Template:Editnotices/Page/Hyde Park Picture House for you --DannyS712 (talk) 05:46, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-05-21T05:46:00.000Z","author":"DannyS712","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DannyS712-2019-05-21T05:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_bike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation%27s_ban_of_Fram#Comments_from_Risker https://www.podiumcafe.com/book-corner/2018/1/31/16955058/paced-bicycle-racing-deaths

Chief Mouser to the Cabinet Office

deleted cyclists info
separate sections since 2004
July 2010 version of 'List of professional cyclists who have died during a race' What this List looked like when I started
cult of death around professional cycling, "Sport, History, and Heritage: Studies in Public Representation"
stripped down URL for cite Google search for 'cycling memorials'
All about the Bike
"Cyclopedia: It's All about the Bike" URL for cite pages 234-237 By William Fotheringham mortality among french cyclists in the tour de france Sports Doping article I would love to read get a hold of arnie baker traumatic injuries in a masters club INternational pro riders deaths arnice baker article linkage to federations

The following NOTES on cycling List need to be sourced
Notes 1, 7, 8, 10, 11, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, 26, 27

• 1...<ref group = "Note">"Pacemakers" in this sense were [[Motor-paced racing#Pacing by motorcycle|motorcyclists]] who rode motorcycles as a team mate in front of and for specific professional cyclists. These motorized vehicles provided an additional boost of speed to the cyclists behind them via their slipstreams (as in Andrew Horman's ''Life in the Slipstream: The Legend of Bobby Walthour''.)</ref>
• 7...<ref group = "Note">There appears to be some confusion over the year of Taylor's death, reported in various [[WP:IRS|reliable sources]] as occurring in either 1903 or 1902. Any references to his death occurring in 1901 seem to be in error since he placed 3rd at the World Championships in 1902.</ref>
• 8...<ref group = "Note">The June 18 date seems to be the date of the accident. Dangla apparently lingered in a coma before dying of his injuries on June 24. ''See'' "ATHLETICS(Note by Amateur)".</ref>
• 10...<ref group ="Note">The accident took place on November 14, Brecy died on November 25 after lingering for 11 days.</ref>
• 11...<ref group = "Note">At least one commentator has a different date of death - 18 October 1908. See ''Opgevouwen op zijn fietsje de dood tegemoet ("Folded to death on his bike")''.</ref>
• 15...<ref group = "Note">Per ''Cycling Archives'', this race is also known as the "Inter Clubs Championship" and took place in Uccle, Belgium.</ref>
• 16...<ref group = "Note">When Walter Rutt (the former world champion) wrote to the "American Bicyclist and Motorcyclist(Volume 71)" published in 1950, he referred to this race not as the actual Six-Day Race but as a 'team race that was run before' it and that this team race was of a 'A Thousand Laps'(150 km) variety.</ref>
• 17...<ref group = "Note">There were two Berlin Six-Days run in 1951. Van Beek died while racing the March 1951 Berlin Six-Day and Mirke died during the December Six-Day.</ref>
• 18...<ref group = "Note">Metze's month of death is variously reported as being either in May(Velo Gotha) or in July.(www.cyclingarchives.com)</ref>
• 20...<ref group = "Note">Jim Taylor was a fellow cyclist riding in the Tour and was also hit by the bus that killed Mockridge.</ref>
• 21...<ref group = "Note">The circumstances surrounding Simpson's death were controversial. The autopsy report said that drugs (amphetamines) were found in his system but judged the cause of death as being a combination of heat-stroke, oxygen depletion and physical exertion. Notwithstanding the drugs in his system the temperature that day was at least 42 degrees Celsius and the fact that Tour officials limited riders to two bottles of water a day was most probably a contributing factor.</ref>
• 22...<ref group = "Note">Wilcockson refers to the race as "a kermesse race at Retié".</ref>
• 26...<ref group = "Note">Espinosa's accident occurred during a team time trial ("el Criterium de Fuenlabrada") for the Fuenlabrada race, not the race itself.</ref>
• 27...<ref group = "Note">The date of McLean's death is reported as both September 3 (The World almanac) and as "early today" September 9 or 10th (News from the Outside World).</ref>

I am thinking of nominating List of cyclists with a cycling-related death for FLC sometime this fall. I've never nominated a List for FL before so if you could take a quick look to see if there's anything obvious that jumps out as being WRONG it would be very helpful. Just for a reference, this is what the List looked like when I first happened upon it back in July 2010. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 21:36, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-18T21:36:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shearonink-2019-08-18T21:36:00.000Z-If_you_have_time_some_feedback_please","replies":["c-PresN-2019-08-19T03:06:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-18T21:36:00.000Z","c-Izno-2019-08-20T02:57:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-18T21:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

@Shearonink: points from a quick skim:

• "and since 1994 a number of professionals have been killed in accidents with motorized vehicles while training on public roads." - given that presumably this happened before 1994 as well, this reads strangely
• The "Cyclists who died due to a race" / "Professionals who died during training and other cycling related deaths" section titles are overly verbose, and duplicate the table headers
• The name field is sorting by first name, not last name- consider the {{sortname}} template
• The 85% text size thing is a bit odd; especially since for me usually the thing that's stretching the rows is the image, not too much text in the notes field
• You use "&" a lot in the notes, which should be written out
• Notes field is inconsistent on using full sentences, and whether or not fragments get a period at the end
• You're going to need to justify why the first section gets a table but the "not in a race" deaths don't
• Some of your notes seem to be trying to imply a source; you'd be better off just putting a reference in them (there's a couple ways, but easiest is to switch to using the {{efn}} template, and then you can just stick a ref tag in the note
• Some of your citations are wonky and I'd recommend looking through them all- e.g. "Møller, Pages 467-468", which should be "Møller, pp, 467–468" to start with but also needs the full book or whatever listed because you don't have a sources section for that to be referring to. Also e.g. "Der deutsche Radfahrer, 23. März 1937", which has the same issue plus a non-standard (and non-English) date format. --PresN 03:06, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-19T03:06:00.000Z","author":"PresN","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-PresN-2019-08-19T03:06:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-18T21:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2019-08-19T03:33:00.000Z-PresN-2019-08-19T03:06:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Pres"}}-->

Thanks, appreciate your comments. Have already corrected some of the issues, will work my way through the others as I can. Cheers, Shearonink (talk) 03:33, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-19T03:33:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Shearonink-2019-08-19T03:33:00.000Z-PresN-2019-08-19T03:06:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2019-08-19T07:12:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-19T03:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

Question re: the sorting by last names...does that mean all the 120+ names in the table will have to be converted from their present plain state into "sortable by last name"? For instance

Will the plain name within its table cell of Pierre Froget have to be converted to {{sortname|Pierre|Froget}} (and so on...)?

Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 07:12, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-19T07:12:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Shearonink-2019-08-19T07:12:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-19T03:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-PresN-2019-08-19T14:31:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-19T07:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

@Shearonink: Yes, it would- 120 is a lot, but it should be fairly quick if you just run down the list adding "{{sortname|" to the front, and then the pipe, and then the closing }}. --PresN 14:31, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-19T14:31:00.000Z","author":"PresN","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-PresN-2019-08-19T14:31:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-19T07:12:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2019-08-19T15:38:00.000Z-PresN-2019-08-19T14:31:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Pres"}}-->

Ah thanks - just wanted to make sure. I didn't used to be a coder of any stripe, so these types of things are not intuitive for me and I have to ask lots of questions to make sure I understand.

Wanted to mention the actual different sections and the titles of the sections have been discussed on the talk page - here, here, and here - these latest versions are the best we could come up with at the time. I'll try to think of some better ideas and propose them on the talkpage.

About the sort-name code...there are several names linked to their associated En.WP articles plus two names linked to German WP articles (Louis Mettling & Ernst Feja). If I run into issues getting the sort-coding to stick I will be coming back here and asking about how to do that.

Thanks again, Shearonink (talk) 15:38, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-19T15:38:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Shearonink-2019-08-19T15:38:00.000Z-PresN-2019-08-19T14:31:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2019-08-19T17:34:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-19T15:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

I figured out the coding for the names without articles (and with!) but I am going to need an example of what to do for names that are linked to other Wikipedias - I'd like to take care of the coding myself, that's the only way I'll learn so if you know the right way to do the sortname thing for Louis Mettling ([[:de:Louis Mettling|Louis Mettling]]) & Ernst Feja ([[:de:Ernst Feja|Ernst Feja]]) that would be a big help. Thx, Shearonink (talk) 17:34, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-19T17:34:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Shearonink-2019-08-19T17:34:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-19T15:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The way sortname works in the backend is table cell wikitext that looks kind of like:

| data-sort-value="Last, First" | First Last

I personally prefer this way as it makes it clear that's what is going on underneath the hood, but it does add some duplication. In the case of foreign wikis, you might do something like the following, taking the above as inspiration, to work around not-great support in the template:

| data-sort-value="Last, First" | {{ill|First Last|lang_code}}.

{{ill}} for documentation of the template invoked there. --Izno (talk) 02:57, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-20T02:57:00.000Z","author":"Izno","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Izno-2019-08-20T02:57:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-18T21:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-PresN-2019-08-20T04:47:00.000Z-Izno-2019-08-20T02:57:00.000Z","c-Shearonink-2019-08-20T14:56:00.000Z-Izno-2019-08-20T02:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, so, where you have | scope="row" style="text-align:center;"| [[:de:Louis Mettling|Louis Mettling]] || Track cyclist, change it to | scope="row" style="text-align:center;" data-sort-value="Mettling, Louis"| [[:de:Louis Mettling|Louis Mettling]] || Track cyclist (or | scope="row" style="text-align:center;" data-sort-value="Mettling, Louis"| {{ill|Louis Mettling|de}} || Track cyclist, per Izno's suggestion. --PresN 04:47, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-20T04:47:00.000Z","author":"PresN","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-PresN-2019-08-20T04:47:00.000Z-Izno-2019-08-20T02:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2019-08-20T14:42:00.000Z-PresN-2019-08-20T04:47:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Pres"}}-->

Yay! Worked like a charm - thanks everybody. Shearonink (talk) 14:42, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-20T14:42:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Shearonink-2019-08-20T14:42:00.000Z-PresN-2019-08-20T04:47:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Ok, now I have another sortname question...

the entry now reads | scope="row" style="text-align:center;"| {{nowrap|Camille Danguillaume}}||

How do I use the sortname on this entry and maintain the nowrap for the name in the visible table?

Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 14:56, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-20T14:56:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Shearonink-2019-08-20T14:56:00.000Z-Izno-2019-08-20T02:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-PresN-2019-08-20T15:12:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-20T14:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

@Shearonink: Easiest way: Help:Table#Nowrap: "To keep an entire column from wrapping, use style="white-space: nowrap;" in a non-header cell on the longest/widest cell to affect the entire column." Looks like it also works to just make the nowrap template be on the outside of the sortname template: {{nowrap|{{sortname|Camille|Danguillaume}}}} --PresN 15:12, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-20T15:12:00.000Z","author":"PresN","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-PresN-2019-08-20T15:12:00.000Z-Shearonink-2019-08-20T14:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2019-08-20T16:45:00.000Z-PresN-2019-08-20T15:12:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Pres"}}-->

Finished all the 120+ sortnames. Thanks for all your help everyone - cheers! Shearonink (talk) 16:45, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-20T16:45:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Shearonink-2019-08-20T16:45:00.000Z-PresN-2019-08-20T15:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

PresN - I think I've fixed many of the issues you pointed out.

• "and since 1994 a number of professionals have been killed in accidents with motorized vehicles while training on public roads." - given that presumably this happened before 1994 as well, this reads strangely. Edited this section, adjusted the wording
• The "Cyclists who died due to a race" / "Professionals who died during training and other cycling related deaths" section titles are overly verbose, and duplicate the table headers. Adjusted this wording
• The name field is sorting by first name, not last name- consider the {{sortname}} template. Yeah. This is SO fixed.
• The 85% text size thing is a bit odd; especially since for me usually the thing that's stretching the rows is the image, not too much text in the notes field. Bumped up to 95%
• You use "&" a lot in the notes, which should be written out. I think I've fixed most of these.
• Notes field is inconsistent on using full sentences, and whether or not fragments get a period at the end. -->> Still working on this.
• You're going to need to justify why the first section gets a table but the "not in a race" deaths don't. -->> I've been thinking about this.
• Some of your notes seem to be trying to imply a source; you'd be better off just putting a reference in them (there's a couple ways, but easiest is to switch to using the {{efn}} template, and then you can just stick a ref tag in the note -->> Still working on this.
• Some of your citations are wonky and I'd recommend looking through them all- e.g. "Møller, Pages 467-468", which should be "Møller, pp, 467–468" to start with but also needs the full book or whatever listed because you don't have a sources section for that to be referring to. Also e.g. "Der deutsche Radfahrer, 23. März 1937", which has the same issue plus a non-standard (and non-English) date format. -- -->> Still working on this.

Just waiting on some additional info from a collaborator with access to early 20th Century German-language references (hoping for some photos of some of the early cyclists, plus some specific referencing. If there's anything else that screams WRONG in the present version, please let me know. Thanks again, really appreciate all the help. Shearonink (talk) 21:51, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2019-08-20T21:51:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shearonink-2019-08-20T21:51:00.000Z-If_you_have_time_some_feedback_please","replies":[]}}-->

https://books.google.com/books?id=0-IUC00guXEC&pg=PR17#v=onepage&q&f=false

22 things you may not have known about the 1927 Bath school massacre by Julie Mack | [email protected] article dated May 10, 2017

https://federalcourthistoricaledmi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/201302-Court-Legacy-February-2013.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20471035

Write-up about Bath, lots of sources: http://www.okemosalumni.org/000/4/8/8/29884/userfiles/file/The%20Story%20of%20Bath%20by%20Sherrie%20Paty%20%2766%20edited.pdf

• WP:Media copyright questions
• Discussion on Nikkimaria's talk page
• Discussion on Sandy Georgia's talk page
• Review on Talk:Bath School disaster
• Pre-FAC comments

{{subst:TFAR nom | article = {{subst:Bath School disaster}} | blurb = The '''Bath School disaster''' was a series of violent attacks perpetrated by [[Andrew Kehoe]] on May{{nbs}}18, 1927, in [[Bath Township, Michigan]]. The attacks killed 38 [[elementary school]]children and 6 adults, and injured at least 58 other people. On the morning of May 18 - having previously murdered his wife at their farm - Kehoe set off almost simultaneous explosions at his home and at the Bath Consolidated School. His explosives destroyed the farm's buildings and ripped through the north wing of the Bath Consolidated School building. As rescuers began working at the school, Kehoe drove up to the schoolyard and detonated [[dynamite]] inside his [[Fragmentation (weaponry)|shrapnel]]-filled truck. The truck explosion killed Kehoe and several bystanders. During the rescue and recovery efforts, searchers discovered an additional 500 [[Pound (mass)|pounds]] (230 kg) of unexploded dynamite and [[pyrotol]] in the south wing of the school that was set to explode at the same time as the initial explosions in the north wing; Kehoe had apparently intended to destroy the entire school and kill everyone in it. | image = Bath School disaster showing front of school.png | caption = Front view of the Bath School building after the bombing | promoted = March 29, 2020 | editors = {{u|Shearonink}} | recents = No recent similar articles that I could find | reasons = The anniversary date of the disaster is May 18. This is my first FA, so it would be my first FA to appear at TFA }}

ADDITIONAL SOURCE FOR list of cylists: https://books.google.com/books?id=o3OuBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA67#v=onepage&q&f=false

• https://fee.org/articles/how-the-term-social-justice-warrior-became-an-insult/
• https://www.flowjournal.org/2018/04/alt-right-bogeyman/
• https://indigo.uic.edu/articles/Attack_of_the_50-foot_social_justice_warrior_the_discursive_construction_of_SJW_memes_as_the_monstrous_feminine/10766381/1
• https://www.washingtonian.com/2019/05/05/what-happened-after-my-13-year-old-son-joined-the-alt-right/
• https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14680777.2018.1447333?scroll=top&needAccess=true
• https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Far_Right_in_Contemporary_Australia/79KiDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=social+justice+warrior+gamergate+conservative&pg=PA133&printsec=frontcover
• https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/lane-davis-ralph-retort-seattle4truth-alt-right

https://stuyfssportverhalen.com/?tag=fatal-accidents-in-cycling

Word Count tool ->>> http://www.javascriptkit.com/script/script2/charcount.shtml

Newslinger

I have no interest in going in circles, we can look at policy. WP:CONTEXTMATTERS suggests to me that a RS's in house legal department making clarifications about the nature of their own content would be a reliable source in the context of the content in question. Can you think of a better source for whether or not something an RS said is an opinion or a fact, than a RS's own in house legal dept explicitly answering that, given that the issue of fact vs opinion is a significant aspect of law?Sandman9083 (talk) 22:20, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-11-17T22:20:00.000Z","author":"Sandman9083","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sandman9083-2020-11-17T22:20:00.000Z-BRILLIANT","replies":["c-Newslinger-2020-11-18T01:44:00.000Z-Sandman9083-2020-11-17T22:20:00.000Z"]}}-->

That's an incorrect application of WP:CONTEXTMATTERS. The correct application is to recognize that although The New York Times (RSP entry) is generally reliable, statements made by its legal counsel (not its journalists) are unreliable because they are similar to press releases and "lack meaningful editorial oversight, or have an apparent conflict of interest", as described in the questionable sources policy. It is fruitless to use a questionable source to attempt to discredit high-quality academic sources. Since the consensus of factual coverage in reliable sources, including academic sources and news coverage, is that Project Veritas edited videos to mislead its viewers, that is a factual claim, and not an opinion. The vast majority of editors on this talk page have found your arguments unconvincing, and your best course of action would be to – as you say – "take a step back", respect the consensus here, and refrain from bludgeoning the process any further. — Newslinger talk 01:44, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-11-18T01:44:00.000Z","author":"Newslinger","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Newslinger-2020-11-18T01:44:00.000Z-Sandman9083-2020-11-17T22:20:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Here's the page: User:Shearonink/Holiday. I created this "Card" 3 years ago but was looking at it today prior to starting to send it out and I realized - eek! - that there is no time-stamp. I am somewhat tech-averse, so I do not understand how to add a time-stamp (heh, or even if it is possible). If some of you tech experts could take a look at the code and tell me how to fix it I'd appreciate that. PLEASE do not go ahead and just fix it yourself. I know that is probably easier but if I don't do it myself in the future I won't understand how to fix similar situations. Thanks & Cheers! Shearonink (talk) 19:11, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-12-15T19:11:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shearonink-2020-12-15T19:11:00.000Z-I_want_to_add_a_time-stamp_to_a_subst_thingy_I_made_a_while_ago_but_(From_Wikipe","replies":["c-Xaosflux-2020-12-15T19:19:00.000Z-Shearonink-2020-12-15T19:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

@Shearonink: I'm assuming you are going to subst: this places, if so you can add a line that is something like this: ~~<noinclude></noinclude>~~<noinclude></noinclude>~. There are other ways too, but that should be easy to understand (test it in your sandbox). — xaosflux ^Talk 19:19, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-12-15T19:19:00.000Z","author":"Xaosflux","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Xaosflux-2020-12-15T19:19:00.000Z-Shearonink-2020-12-15T19:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2020-12-15T20:13:00.000Z-Xaosflux-2020-12-15T19:19:00.000Z"]}}-->

Oh my word Xaosflux, I knew someone around here would have the answer. THANK YOU, you are awesome, I will start testing away! Cheers! Shearonink (talk) 20:13, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-12-15T20:13:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Shearonink-2020-12-15T20:13:00.000Z-Xaosflux-2020-12-15T19:19:00.000Z","replies":["c-Alexis_Jazz-2020-12-16T00:04:00.000Z-Shearonink-2020-12-15T20:13:00.000Z","c-Alexis_Jazz-2020-12-16T00:04:00.000Z-Shearonink-2020-12-15T20:13:00.000Z-1"]}}-->

@Shearonink: Three tildes (~~<noinclude></noinclude>~) give you your signature without timestamp:

— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me)

Four tildes (~~<noinclude></noinclude>~~) give you your signature with timestamp (as usual):

— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:04, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-12-16T00:04:00.000Z","author":"Alexis Jazz","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Alexis_Jazz-2020-12-16T00:04:00.000Z-Shearonink-2020-12-15T20:13:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Five tildes (~~<noinclude></noinclude>~~<noinclude></noinclude>~) give you a timestamp without signature (as Xaosflux showed):

00:04, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

The noinclude code prevents the tildes from being parsed unless the page is substituted. There's also interesting stuff on mw:Help:Magic words but you probably won't need it for now:

{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTMONTHNAME}} is here and {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTYEAR}} was very.. special? Greetings from {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>REVISIONUSER}}.

December is here and 2020 was very.. special? Greetings from Alexis Jazz.

But maybe if you want to customize stuff. Here the "includeonly" will result in the magic words being substituted when you substitute the page, but not when saving the page. (because the substitution happens only when the page is included on another page) — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 00:04, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-12-16T00:04:00.000Z","author":"Alexis Jazz","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Alexis_Jazz-2020-12-16T00:04:00.000Z-Shearonink-2020-12-15T20:13:00.000Z-1","replies":["c-Alexis_Jazz-2020-12-16T14:10:00.000Z-Alexis_Jazz-2020-12-16T00:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

@Shearonink: Instead of "the New Year 2021 will be an improvement upon the old of 2020" you could say "the New Year '''{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#expr: {{CURRENTYEAR}} + 1 }}''' will be an improvement upon the old of {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTYEAR}}" as 1 + 1 is 2. Or with an exception for January (for slightly late wishes for a good new year), it could be written as "the New Year '''{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#ifeq:{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTMONTH}}|01|{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTYEAR}}|{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#expr: {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTYEAR}} + 1 }}}}''' will be an improvement upon the old of {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#ifeq:{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTMONTH}}|01|{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#expr: {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTYEAR}} - 1 }}|{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTYEAR}}}}". Sure it's easier to just update it manually every year, but your card could live on forever! — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-12-16T14:10:00.000Z","author":"Alexis Jazz","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Alexis_Jazz-2020-12-16T14:10:00.000Z-Alexis_Jazz-2020-12-16T00:04:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• In New York column (by George Ross), Salinas Morning Post, May 21, 1928, Page 4, Newspapers.com
  
• San Francisco Examiner, May 5, 1938, Page 10, Newspapers.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=1120 (..sneed->chuck) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter/1120

User Scripts archive page Interesting editor interaction

https://copyvios.toolforge.org/

ebook linkage

{{done}}

I noticed that you're adjusting and fixing up a lot of short descriptions using Wikipedia:Shortdesc helper. How do you find all these articles to fix up? Is there an automated process or do you just start looking in general at Wikipedia articles? Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 14:51, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-04-19T14:51:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shearonink-2022-04-19T14:51:00.000Z-SHORT_DESCRIPTION_SHORT_DESC_So,_your_Wikipedia:Shortdesc_helper_edits...","replies":["c-GhostInTheMachine-2022-04-19T15:23:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-04-19T14:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

@Shearonink: I monitor categories such as Category:Pages_using_short_description_with_unknown_parameters, Category:Pages with lower-case short description and Category:Articles with long short description which report "errors". Also, whenever I have time, I pick pages at random from Search for articles without a short description (skipping DAB pages). See also my Tidying page — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 15:23, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-04-19T15:23:00.000Z","author":"GhostInTheMachine","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-GhostInTheMachine-2022-04-19T15:23:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-04-19T14:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2022-04-19T15:52:00.000Z-GhostInTheMachine-2022-04-19T15:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ah thanks, appreciate the info. Shearonink (talk) 15:52, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-04-19T15:52:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Shearonink-2022-04-19T15:52:00.000Z-GhostInTheMachine-2022-04-19T15:23:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Arranged by Montrose - is this article correct? it is very confusing...

Was wondering myself about the "and Jackson received schooling from two nearby priests" (especially that "nearby priests" part...) so I went hunting for when it was added to the article. It's been present in the Jackson article since April 2017 when it was added with this edit [2]. Does Wilentz's 2005 biography say *anything* specifically about Jackson's early schooling? If he did that could certainly be of interest...
The text & source are as follows:

Jackson's father died in an accident in February 1767 at the age of 29, three weeks before his son Andrew was born in the Waxhaws area. Jackson, his mother, and his brothers lived with Jackson's aunt and uncle in the Waxhaws region, and Jackson received schooling from two nearby priests.

Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 20:34, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-05-17T20:34:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shearonink-2022-05-17T20:34:00.000Z-Andrew_Jackson...","replies":["c-Textorus-2022-05-18T02:36:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-05-17T20:34:00.000Z","c-Textorus-2022-05-18T02:40:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-05-17T20:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

The "two priests" part jumped out at me, too. Obviously that edit was made by a child or an ignoramus with no concept of the time and the place where Jackson grew up. In a small, tightly-knit, very Presbyterian community, sending a child to two priests - presumably Catholic - would have been like sending him to the devil. I followed the link within the source link to the Wilentz biography, which on page 16 says the young Jackson was sent to two clergymen - a very different thing!

In the following paragraph, however, Wilentz says he was sent to a "religious academy" but does not name it or say where it was. On page 177, a timeline of "Milestones" gives the names of two men who ran schools (plural) that Jackson attended in 1775-1780. It is not certain that these are the two clergymen mentioned before.

All this was too vague and nebulous for me, so I simply deleted the false claim. If you'd like to take the time to stitch these fragments into the wikiarticle, by all means go ahead. I was just there to find out his birth and death dates, really. Thanks for taking an interest. Textorus (talk) 02:36, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-05-18T02:36:00.000Z","author":"Textorus","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Textorus-2022-05-18T02:36:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-05-17T20:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I didn't see this nifty little reply link until I'd already replied to you on my talk page. Please take a look over there. Textorus (talk) 02:40, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-05-18T02:40:00.000Z","author":"Textorus","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Textorus-2022-05-18T02:40:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-05-17T20:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2022-05-18T14:59:00.000Z-Textorus-2022-05-18T02:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yeah, re the "priests" - made no sense. I do not have access to the Wilentz book. Can you put the names of those two men here? I can see if I can figure out if those guys are the two clergymen or not...little puzzles fascinate me lol, maybe I'll stitch it all back in at some point. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 14:59, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-05-18T14:59:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Shearonink-2022-05-18T14:59:00.000Z-Textorus-2022-05-18T02:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Textorus-2022-05-18T17:34:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-05-18T14:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

The link within a link is footnote 9 in paragraph 2 of the Early life section, but I'll save you a step: just go to https://books.google.com/books?id=1GhZl6KhM4cC&pg=PP8. Textorus (talk) 17:34, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-05-18T17:34:00.000Z","author":"Textorus","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Textorus-2022-05-18T17:34:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-05-18T14:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2022-05-18T18:35:00.000Z-Textorus-2022-05-18T17:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for the link. Actually Wilentz isn't much help at all on the specifics but at least I have found some names in other sources (TG we get jstor access around here now) - in Vol. 7, No. 1, MARCH, 1948 Tennessee Historical Quarterly... James White Stephenson(school on the Catabaw, prominent Pres. clergyman), Professor Branch, Dr./Mr. William Humphries (school at Waxhaw Church), Reverend Francis Cummins (prominent Pres. clergyman, classical boarding school), Robert M'Culloch (Jackson's last school studies occurred with a Mr. M'Culloch in an area of North Carolina called "the New Acquisition", happened after Jackson returned home after the Rev War and before he studied law - source The Complete Memoirs of Andrew Jackson: Seventh President of the United States : Containing a Full Account of His Military Life and Achievements, with His Career as President by John Henry Eaton, 1878 Edition).

Shearonink (talk) 18:35, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-05-18T18:35:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Shearonink-2022-05-18T18:35:00.000Z-Textorus-2022-05-18T17:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• John Savage (surveyor)
• Fairfax Line - https://books.google.com/books?id=2iMSAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
• Fairfax Stone Historical Monument State Park
• Professional Surveyor Magazine, Professional Surveyor April 2004 Volume 24 Number 4 History Corner: Robert Brooke, Father and Son, Surveyors of Virginia Mary M. Root, LS
• Penn–Calvert boundary dispute

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1090177

ACTUAL November 1813 LETTER that Brands slightly misquotes...
Page 444
CITATION - The Papers of Andrew Jackson, V. II, 1804-1813. Ed. Harold D. Moser and Sharon Macpherson. Knoxville: University of Tennessee Press, 1984.

• To Rachel Jackson
• Head quarters 10 Islands
• Cosa river Novbr. 4th. 1813
• In the hurry of the moment I have but a moment to write you-I detached Genl John Coffee with part of his Brigade of Cavalry and mounted

men to destroy the Creek Town Talus,hatchey, [1] he has executed this order in elegant stile leaving dead on the field one hundred & seventy six, and taking 80, prisoners, forty prisoners was left on the ground many of them wounded, others to take care of them-since writing the above Genl Coffee reports 1 80, found dead, and there is no doubt but 200 was killed [2] -I have here forty two added to the thirty two heretofore captured & sent on to Huntsville, in all 74-1 have been and is still badly supplied with provisions, as soon as I can get a supply will proceed on to the heart of the creek nation-Mr Alexander and Jack Donelson [3] were both in the action are safe & behaved like what I could wish & expected, all friends safe, Capt Hammond had 5 of his men wounded-all behaved bravely and as I could wish-I send on a little Indian boy[4] for Andrew to Huntsville-with a request to Colo. Pope to take care of him untill he is sent on-all his family is destroyed-he is about the age of Theodore [5] -In haste your affectionate Husband Andrew Jackson ALS, MH-H.

• 1. See AJ to John Coffee, November 2.
• 2. Coffee's losses were five killed and forty-one wounded. The victory at Tallushatchee was the first major blow to the hostile Creeks in upper Mississippi Territory. For details of the battle, see Coffee to AJ, November 4.
• 3. John ("Jack") Donelson (1787-1840), brother of Alexander, was a lieutenant in Coffee's cavalry brigade and commanded a company of mounted infantry at the Battle of New Orleans. In 1823 he married Edward Butler's daughter, Eliza, and settled near Florence, Ala.
• 4. Lyncoya (c1813-28), a Creek infant orphaned at the Battle of Tallushatchee, reached the Hermitage in May 1814. He remained in the Jackson household until his death.
• 5. Theodore (cl813-14) was probably another Indian child at the Hermitage. Jackson and Rachel mentioned his death in their letters of March 4 and 21, 1814 (DLC).

THIS^^^letter is about LYNCOYA.

Incorrect assertion not backed up by sources added here on January 20, 2012 by User:Rockgenre Revision as of 21:00, 20 January 2012 (edit) (undo) (thank) Rockgenre (talk | contribs) ->edit summary->(Jackson actually had another adopted American Indian son named Theodore.)
The ACTUAL TEXT DOES NOT SAY THAT THEODORE WAS ADOPTED, the WP-editor mis-characterizes the source, the actual letter is above, Brands MISQUOTES Jackson and leaves a slight impression that this "Theodore" is somehow adopted. BRANDS says:

• "I send on a little boy for Andrew. All his family is destroyed. He is about the age of Theodore."

but Brands then goes on to say:

• The young boy named Theodore had come to live at the Hermitage earlier, under circumstances lost to history. ... In Jackson's case, he pitied the Creek child—named Lyncoya—but he also wanted to provide Rachel another child and Andrew (and Theodore) a brother.

All of the above is found on Page 198 of Brands' Andrew Jackson: His Life and Times.

FEBRUARY 21st 1814 letter
Page 35
To Rachel from Jackson

say to my little darling Andrew, that his sweet papa will be home

shortly, and that he sends him three sweet kisses-I have not heard whether Genl Coffee has taken on to him little Lyncoya-1 have got another Pett-given to me by the chief Jame Fife, that I intend for my other little Andrew [Jackson] Donelson and if I can a third I will give it to little Andrew [Jackson] Hutchings [2] My love I write you as often as time and convayences will permit, and I have a pleasing hope we will with the protection and permission of him who governs all, meet shortly-I wrote you a few days since, requesting you would send the copy of the secratary of wars letter and the copy I had enclosed to Genl Coffee of general Pinckneys letter which I directed to be sent on with my letter to you-To William B Lewis at Nashville 3-If you have not please to do it on the receipt of this, give my compliments to all friends and believe me affectionately yours, &c &c Andrew Jackson ALS, MoSHi (3-0883).

2. Donelson (1799-1871) and Hutchings (1811-41) were, respectively, Jackson's nephew and grandnephew. Hutchings became Jackson's ward after his father, John Hutchings, died in 1817. The Indian children were probably Theodore and Charley.

3. See AJ to Rachel Jackson, February 17, and, above, AJ to Coffee, February 17.

https://jewlscholar.mtsu.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/443f7089-2583-469f-9f7e-543c01037223/content https://web.archive.org/web/20220524065354/https://jewlscholar.mtsu.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/443f7089-2583-469f-9f7e-543c01037223/content

Page 44

Charley was a Creek Indian child whom Jackson received from James Fife, and gave to Andrew Jr. in 1814.

Page 44-45

There is also evidence that another Indian child was already residing at the Hermitage when Lyncoya arrived. This child, Theodore, is briefly mentioned in a few letters. When Jackson was estimating Lyncoya’s age to Rachel, he said that he was about Theodore’s age. It is unclear what happened to Charley and Theodore.

Personally, sounds like a recipe for disaster. Lyncoya was a small child, no one knows exactly how old but maybe a toddler and Andrea jackson jr was born in 1809 so Jr was around 5 or 6 when Lyncoya showed up...a 5 or 6 year old expected to have a baby/toddler as a companion/friend? An aside...odd to me that Jackson called them "petts" in his letters.

James Fife aka Tuskena Hutka (Page 21, Volume III, Footnote by Editors) was a Creek allied with Jackson who gave Jackson another native child, Charly/Charley (Junior refers to "Charly" in his letter to his father dated APRIL 8, 1814

Lyncoya wasn't there until after April 1814, per page 60, Volume III

Charley/Charly was already there, he had arrived before Lyncoya, per page 60 Volume III, letter from Junior to Jackson charly/charley was given to Jackson from James Fifrean indian guide or chief

Page 59 of Volume III, Rachel's letter to Jackson, dated April 7, 1814, says

your Little Andrew is well Is much pleased with his Charley

CITATION: The Papers of Andrew Jackson, Vol. III, 1814-1815. Ed. Harold D. Moser, David R. Hoth, Sharon Macpherson, John H. Reinbold. Knoxville: University of Tennessee

Press, 1991, page 59, Page 60

• CHARLY/CHARLEY
• PAGE 60, VOLUME III

From Andrew Jackson, Jr. Aprile the 8 [18 14] My Dear Father no one will fetch my Lyncoia I have a thought of going my self for him I like Charly but he will not mind me my mother thinks highly of his understanding she treats him as well as aney purson on Earth Could-write when you think you will be on your returne march and I will Come and Hail you welcome oh the Sweete anticipation of the Long wished for period of it oreflows my soule I must quit the subject for the present-adieue my kindest and Dearest of friends Andrew Jackson j uner

THEODORE was already there before Lyncoya, per Jackson's letter to Rachel, Page 444 Volume II.

• VOLUME III, 1814-1815:https://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1004&context=utk_jackson
• VOLUME II, 1804-1813:https://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1003&context=utk_jackson

• https://books.google.com/books?id=_Z0nDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91
• The Native South: New Histories and Enduring Legacies, edited by Tim Alan Garrison & Greg O'Brien, 2017, Chapter 5 - Andrew Jackson's Indian Son: Native Captives and American Empire by Christina Snyder

https://history.la.psu.edu/directory/christina-snyder/ PhD, McCabe Greer Professor of the American Civil War Era at PennState, extensively published books, articles, essays

http://npshistory.com/publications/hobe/braund-2017.pdf - bibliography, mentions:

December 29, 1813. Andrew Jackson to Rachel Jackson. In this letter,

Jackson inquires if Lyncoya, (the infant taken at Tallushatchee) had arrived at the Hermitage and instructs his wife to "Keep Lyncoya in the house," an indication that Jackson did not want him housed with his African American slaves. (2:516)
VOLUME III

• To Rachel Jackson

Head quarters Fort Strother Decbr 29th. 1813 . ½ past 11 oclock at night

Please write me how my little andrew [is] and whether, his little Indian

Lyncoya was taken to him by Major Whyte 3 of Gallatine-if he has got him how & what he thinks of him-Keep Lyncoya in the house-h

• NPS: http://npshistory.com/publications/hobe/braund-2017.pdf
• The African American Experience and the Creek War, 1813-14: An Annotated Bibliography Task Agreement NumberP16AC01696 Under Cooperative Agreement Number P13AC00443 Between The United States Dept. of the Interior, National Park Service Horseshoe Bend National Military Park and Auburn University

August 8, 2017 Report Prepared By Kathryn H. Braund Hollifield Professor of Southern History Auburn University

UGA PhD dissertation 2019 & wayback saved version

...Need some advice/help re: a merge or a re-direct or....? between Bath School disaster & Bath Consolidated School...

As an admin who has edited "Bath School disaster", I need some advice re: Wiki-procedures...
In May a "merge from" template was placed at Bath School disaster to merge content from Bath Consolidated School into the main article. The discussion so far at Talk:Bath School disaster#Proposed merge of Bath Consolidated School into Bath School disaster has been all in favor.
I don't disagree with the template but... In looking over the School article it seems that there is nothing much there different from the main article so a true merge doesn't seem necessary. I've suggested a redirect but am not sure how to best accomplish it (for instance, I don't want to mistakenly strand the Consolidated School's talk page and so on). If you could take a look under the hood and mentor me through the process I'd be happy to take care of it. Yeah, I know it's kind of crazy that I don't know how to do it already but I'm like a cross between toddler around WP, yelling "ME DO!" while simultaneously being afraid I'll Wiki-break something in the process. (FYI - I've also asked for help from one other experienced editor who edited the article somewhat semi-recently on their talk page, figuring maybe one of you will be able to respond shortly with advice.) Cheers, Shearonink (talk) 16:19, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-06-04T16:19:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shearonink-2022-06-04T16:19:00.000Z-MERGE_How_to_do_an_article_merge_-_from_MelanieN's_user_talk","replies":["c-MelanieN-2022-06-04T17:49:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-06-04T16:19:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hello, Shearonink, and thanks for the note. I took a look at the Merge Request and posted a comment agreeing that such a merge should be carried out. I will be happy to advise you how to do it. You will be able to carry it out in full; there is nothing there that calls for admin tools. And you don't strike me as a toddler, with your long experience here! You could look at this advice for help. Also see Wikipedia:WikiProject Merge. Basically, here is what I advise:

• First, look at the information at the school article and compare it to the information about the school at the disaster article. If there is any significant information missing, copy it and any supporting references into the disaster article, and note in your edit summary that the information is copied from the school article. The format I use for the edit summary is something like this: "Material copied from Bath Consolidated School, see that article's history for attribution."
• Next, replace the entire content of the school article with a redirect notice to Bath School disaster, and add the template {{Template:R from merge}}. In your edit summary mention/link to the merge discussion.
• Then go to the school article's talk page, and replace the entire content with a redirect notice to Talk:Bath School disaster and template as above, and mention the merge discussion in your edit summary.
• Remove the "merge to" template from the disaster article, and comment at the Merge Request discussion that you have carried out the merge.
• The existing Pending Change protection at the disaster article will remain in place.

Have fun! I'm not going to be around for the next 24 hours so if you get stuck, consult the other person! 0;-D -- MelanieN (talk) 17:49, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-06-04T17:49:00.000Z","author":"MelanieN","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-MelanieN-2022-06-04T17:49:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-06-04T16:19:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2022-06-04T18:12:00.000Z-MelanieN-2022-06-04T17:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you for all this advice. I'm going to take a stab at it now...wish me luck! Shearonink (talk) 18:12, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-06-04T18:12:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Shearonink-2022-06-04T18:12:00.000Z-MelanieN-2022-06-04T17:49:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shearonink-2022-06-04T22:09:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-06-04T18:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

 Done Feel free to check it all out, I don't think there are any dangling bits of code or orphaned pages... Thanks again. I must say, for me it was much easier to follow your step-by-steps than some of the "Help" pages. Shearonink (talk) 22:09, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-06-04T22:09:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Shearonink-2022-06-04T22:09:00.000Z-Shearonink-2022-06-04T18:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Nice work, Shearonink. Just one thing: although you added the appropriate template to the talk page and left the wikiprojects in place, you forgot to actually redirect the school talk page to the disaster talk page. I did that just now, although to tell you the truth I don't know if it is actually required. I just don't like to leave the talk page of a redirect behind; seems like kind of an orphan. -- MelanieN (talk) 23:57, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-06-05T23:57:00.000Z","author":"MelanieN","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MelanieN-2022-06-05T23:57:00.000Z-MERGE_How_to_do_an_article_merge_-_from_MelanieN's_user_talk","replies":["c-Shearonink-2022-06-06T02:11:00.000Z-MelanieN-2022-06-05T23:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ah...yeah, I wasn't sure if the School old talk page had to leave. Or not. Thanks for the clean-up on Aisle 5. Shearonink (talk) 02:11, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-06-06T02:11:00.000Z","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Shearonink-2022-06-06T02:11:00.000Z-MelanieN-2022-06-05T23:57:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• To look under the hood at how this all turned out:
• See Bath School disaster edit
• See edit history and Talk:Bath Consolidated School
• See edit history and Bath Consolidated School

Review: Headrights and Head Counts: A Review Article Reviewed Work: White, Red, and Black: The Seventeenth-Century Virginian by Wesley Frank Craven Review by: Edmund S. Morgan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Vital_Articles/30_kB_drive

See HOW TO TURN OFF NEW SKIN

You can turn off the Vector 2022 skin in two ways:

1. From the left menu (sidebar), select the link “Switch to old look”, then select your preferred alternate skin (note: the previous default skin was Vector legacy)
2. Open the user menu from the button at the top right corner of the page, then select preferences. Go to the appearance tab on the preferences page and scroll to the Skin section on the preferences page

* {{slink|Lost Cause of the Confederacy|Song of the South}} gives the reader this instead of * [[Lost Cause of the Confederacy#Song of the South]] + this.

These dates are stated in the web pages' HTML. You can check with Ctrl-U or other method to view source in your browser. Nemo 21:29, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230127212900","author":"Nemo bis","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Nemo_bis-20230127212900-Bot_adds_publication_dates_to_undated_material","replies":[],"displayName":"Nemo"}}-->

The first one is coming from one of the items in the HTML source (Ctrl + U in Firefox):

<meta property="og:updated_time" content="2019-06-17T16:47:08-04:00" />
<meta property="article:published_time" content="2018-07-17T11:12:23-04:00" />
<meta property="article:modified_time" content="2019-06-17T16:47:08-04:00" />
<meta name="dcterms.date" content="2018-07-17T11:12-04:00" />

The second one has similar:

<meta property="article:published_time" content="2017-01-25T14:57:52-05:00" />
<meta property="article:modified_time" content="2022-05-04T10:25:57-04:00" />

(The bot should probably prefer the modified_time/updated_time if it is the source responsible, and if it's getting it from Citoid or other ext service maybe an upstream notification would be valuable.)

This metadata is deliberately in that location for the purpose of bots and other systems. Izno (talk) 21:31, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230127213100","author":"Izno","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Izno-20230127213100-Bot_adds_publication_dates_to_undated_material","replies":["c-Shearonink-20230128165700-Izno-20230127213100"]}}-->

Hmmm. Well, this is interesting to me. Chiming in here as the person who originally added the cites to these articles. The dates that the Bot is adding to the cites would appear to be incorrect in that they are not published on the page with the source material. Also, the date that the Bot is finding would appear to be the date that the material was published onto the web but it might not be the actual date the material was written or the date that the material was published in print. In the case of the Archipedia material on the Ramsdell, that information seems to have originally been published in print in 2012. In any case, is a researcher/WP-editor expected or supposed to always to look up the html dates if material is undated on the page? Shearonink (talk) 16:57, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230128165700","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Shearonink-20230128165700-Izno-20230127213100","replies":["c-Nemo_bis-20230128172100-Shearonink-20230128165700","c-Izno-20230128184700-Shearonink-20230128165700"]}}-->

I usually check the date in the HTML if it's not stated, but one can be forgiven for not doing so. The date in {{cite web}} is usually the date of the web page itself. If the date of original publication of the work carried by the web page has some significance, you can instead use {{cite publication}} or other cite template with the date of the work, indicating that the URL is just one representation.

For the sake of WP:RS, I'd expect editors to know whether they're citing a website or some publication of which the website provides a copy, and ideally they'd use citation templates accordingly, but such details can be addressed if/when confusion arises. Nemo 17:21, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230128172100","author":"Nemo bis","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Nemo_bis-20230128172100-Shearonink-20230128165700","replies":["c-Shearonink-20230128174200-Nemo_bis-20230128172100"],"displayName":"Nemo"}}-->

I try to be SO scrupulous and careful when citing whatever reference... Does that "Control-U" thingy work with all laptops? (Yay yet another parameter to remember when info or a webpage "appears" to be undated...) I'd never heard about being able to see the date in the html before. Is it something that only works with PCs or Macs/whatever?... Shearonink (talk) 17:42, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230128174200","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Shearonink-20230128174200-Nemo_bis-20230128172100","replies":["c-Izno-20230128184000-Shearonink-20230128174200"]}}-->

On Windows in Firefox: Ctrl + U is how Firefox does it. It should work in other browsers but the specific key combo may be different. A second way: if you right-click on a page, also provides "View page source". The third way is to open console, which is F12 or also right click and select inspect.

Other browsers and platforms may have a slightly different way to access the page source. Izno (talk) 18:40, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230128184000","author":"Izno","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Izno-20230128184000-Shearonink-20230128174200","replies":[]}}-->

There is no requirement to hunt down information in the page source, it is simply another way to get the date usually since indeed many pages don't have a displayed date (but of course they all have a publication date). I would suggest leaving the dates if Citation bot adds one, so long as you can verify at least in the page source that the date didn't spontaneously poof into thin air. Izno (talk) 18:47, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230128184700","author":"Izno","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Izno-20230128184700-Shearonink-20230128165700","replies":[]}}-->

ClueBot III always confuses me, I usually use Lowercase sigmabot III. Anyway, in the archiving set-up for this page it states:
{{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis |archiveprefix=User talk:Citation bot/Archive |format= %%i |maxarchsize=150000 |minarchthreads=1 |minkeepthreads=4 |age=2160000
So...what exactly does the age=2160000 mean? At Template:Setup cluebot archiving it states that

|age=

How many days old a thread should be before archiving. Default: 90
But that obviously isn't the case because of the 2160000...I've tried looking everywhere around here so I can understand this but am having no luck. If someone would post what the "age=" parameters are and where I can find an easy-to-understand explanation that would be awesome. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 22:53, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230129225300","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shearonink-20230129225300-Not_a_question_about_Citation_bot_but_I_am_trying_to_understand_the_archiving_of","replies":["c-GoingBatty-20230129235800-Shearonink-20230129225300"]}}-->

@Shearonink: According to User:ClueBot_III/ArchiveThis, the |age= parameter is "the number of hours a thread can go without a reply before it should be archived". GoingBatty (talk) 23:58, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230129235800","author":"GoingBatty","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-GoingBatty-20230129235800-Shearonink-20230129225300","replies":["c-Shearonink-20230130025800-GoingBatty-20230129235800"]}}-->

Ok, yes, I kind of know what is supposed to happen but if that is true then 2160000 hours = 9000 days. And that isn't the archiving at this page, is it? The last 2 times ClueBot III archived this page was today when the bot archived a post that was posted earlier today and then the bot archived a post from January 26th...I just don't understand when and why the bot is archiving and the code that is posted way up there at the top...Teach me your ways O Wiki Mavens & Coders... Shearonink (talk) 02:58, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230130025800","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Shearonink-20230130025800-GoingBatty-20230129235800","replies":["c-AManWithNoPlan-20230130030900-Shearonink-20230130025800","c-Izno-20230130032700-Shearonink-20230130025800"]}}-->

|archivenow= is the key. AManWithNoPlan (talk) 03:09, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230130030900","author":"AManWithNoPlan","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-AManWithNoPlan-20230130030900-Shearonink-20230130025800","replies":[]}}-->

As AMWNP implies, you can set at least ClueBot up to archive based on wikitext patterns. (I daren't put the specifics in this section lest the bot archive it. :) Izno (talk) 03:27, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230130032700","author":"Izno","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Izno-20230130032700-Shearonink-20230130025800","replies":["c-Shearonink-20230130034000-Izno-20230130032700"]}}-->

AH! THANK YOU...gawd it was driving me crazy!!! I knew I was missing *something*. Geebus... Shearonink (talk) 03:40, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230130034000","author":"Shearonink","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Shearonink-20230130034000-Izno-20230130032700","replies":["c-AManWithNoPlan-20230130143000-Shearonink-20230130034000"]}}-->

Such as  Not a bug Now we wait. AManWithNoPlan (talk) 14:30, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230130143000","author":"AManWithNoPlan","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-AManWithNoPlan-20230130143000-Shearonink-20230130034000","replies":[]}}-->

User:MiszaBot/config

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/search?keys=The+Hesse+Heist Royals and the Reich: The Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany By Jonathan Petropoulos https://books.google.com/books?id=EuU4PhMmt9kC&pg=PR4&dq=Petropoulos,+Jonathan,+Royals+and+the+Reich,+Oxford+University+Press&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjz09-UrK3_AhVOMlkFHQAVBTcQuwV6BAgCEAc#v=snippet&q=blunt&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=B3w7DwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false https://idnc.library.illinois.edu/?a=d&d=DIL19510802.2.3&e=-------en-20--1--img-txIN---------- publication: The Army Lawyer/Issue 1 2019, Section or Chapter: Lore of the Corps, Title: The German Job - Theft of Hesse Jewels Led to High Profile Courts-Martial by Fred L. Borch (Regimental Historian and Archivist for the Judge Advocate General's Corps) https://www.armfor.uscourts.gov/ConfHandout/2023ConfHandout/Borch1TheGermanJobTheftOfHesseJewelsInWWIILedToHighProfileCourtsMartial.pdf

• Schlosshotel Kronberg - Schlosshotel Kronberg

• Article talk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bath_School_disaster/Archive_2#Cite_form
• FAC discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Bath_School_disaster/archive1#Support_from_7&6=thirteen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/173.237.117.123 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/142.67.114.138

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Evad37/Archive_11#Question_about_'User:Evad37/OneClickArchiver' Template:Archive basics

• https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/trump-american-gentry-wyman-elites/620151/
• https://dailynorthwestern.com/2022/02/06/opinion/ortiz-explaining-the-american-gentry/
• https://patrickwyman.substack.com/p/american-gentry
• https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entries/gentry-in-colonial-virginia/
• https://www.jstor.org/stable/2712438?seq=17 - American Victorianism as a Culture by Daniel Walker Howe
• https://www.jstor.org/stable/25080556?seq=2 - The Aristocracy in Colonial America by Arthur M. Schlesinger
• https://books.google.com/books?id=3cpn0_kDBVkC&pg=PT103&dq=%22American+gentry%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwihoOr-64OFAxVG_skDHfmaCnYQ6AF6BAgJEAI#v=onepage&q=%22gentry%22&f=false - The American Civilizing Process by Stephen Mennell

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=500&offset=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fgwpapers.virginia.edu%2F

here! - Sojourner Truth talk page

https://sigma.toolforge.org/editorinteract.py?users=SkibidiGyatt99&users=Stormm001&users=&startdate=&enddate=&ns=&server=enwiki