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Theleekycauldron created the Phase II page for AELECT at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/2024 review/Phase II/Administrator elections. Will this be where the RfC takes place after the debrief phase? fanfanboy (block talk) 15:24, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105152400","author":"Fanfanboy","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fanfanboy-20241105152400-Phase_II_page.","replies":["c-Novem_Linguae-20241105191900-Fanfanboy-20241105152400"]}}-->

We're not ready for that yet, and it may end up not being used at all. Wikipedia:Administrator elections/October 2024/Debrief is the official place to leave feedback at the moment. –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:19, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105191900","author":"Novem Linguae","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Novem_Linguae-20241105191900-Fanfanboy-20241105152400","replies":["c-SilkTork-20241107184400-Novem_Linguae-20241105191900"]}}-->

We don't actually do "official" on Wikipedia as - other than the WMF - there are no authorities here, just a self-governing and consensual community, but we know what you mean. ;-) SilkTork (talk) 18:44, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107184400","author":"SilkTork","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SilkTork-20241107184400-Novem_Linguae-20241105191900","replies":[]}}-->

Mini-RFC phase

My idea is to let the debrief phase run for a week or two, then we start a new mini-RFC phase where folks make proposals to modify little pieces of the hypothetical next AELECT. So someone might create a proposal to reduce the pass threshold from 70% to 65%, someone might create a proposal to cap elections at 10 candidates each, someone might create a proposal to have our scrutineering done by 3 enwiki checkusers instead of 3 stewards (since stewards have said they probably can't scrutineer this regularly), someone might create a proposal to link to the voter guide category from the AELECT page, etc. We finish that up, get everything properly closed...

Renewal RFC phase

...and THEN we do one renewal RFC. This order is important. I want the process to be improved (mini RFC phase) BEFORE we do a renewal RFC. Else the renewal RFC will be full of "support only if X is changed" votes, which is a pain for the closer.

We should also give thought to the structure of the renewal RFC. Do we want to ask for 1 additional trial? Do we want to ask for a blanket approval to run elections whenever desired (and then we would de facto run like 1–2 elections a year since that is WMF T&S's current bandwidth, but we might eventually do it more often when Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab)#Determining who should be an electionadmin is finalized). (Probably ask for blanket approval since overall AELECT has gone well.)

@Theleekycauldron has expressed a desire to have these processes take place under the umbrella of WP:RFA2024 phase 2. So some thought should be given if we should have that process manage these RFCs. (Seems reasonable. We should probably do that.) –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:33, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105193300","author":"Novem Linguae","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Novem_Linguae-20241105193300-Planning_for_post_debrief","replies":["c-Theleekycauldron-20241105194500-Novem_Linguae-20241105193300"]}}-->

Yep :) I think we were pretty much in agreement on your talk page that the renewal RfC should be at phase II and the initial debrief should be here. I would say the proposals at the mini-RfCs should be workshopped at debrief and then voted on at phase II; seems like you were hoping to get some of the changes ratified informally, which I'm also on board with. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 19:45, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105194500","author":"Theleekycauldron","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Theleekycauldron-20241105194500-Novem_Linguae-20241105193300","replies":["c-Thryduulf-20241105195100-Theleekycauldron-20241105194500"]}}-->

I agree, it will be important to properly workshop the proposals for both mini-RFC and renewal-RFC so we don't get overlapping ones or too many. e.g. there should be exactly one proposal to reduce the support percentage (perhaps with multiple options), and exactly one to change the duration of the consultation phase, etc. Thryduulf (talk) 19:51, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105195100","author":"Thryduulf","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Thryduulf-20241105195100-Theleekycauldron-20241105194500","replies":["c-Novem_Linguae-20241105200400-Thryduulf-20241105195100"]}}-->

Good idea. We can create a workshop subpage to draft RFC proposals. Not sure if we should be strict about it when the mini RFCs start, e.g. if someone wants to propose something that wasn't in the workshop that'd probably be OK. But a workshop would probably be helpful to minimize overlapping RFCs. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:04, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105200400","author":"Novem Linguae","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Novem_Linguae-20241105200400-Thryduulf-20241105195100","replies":["c-Novem_Linguae-20241105201700-Novem_Linguae-20241105200400"]}}-->

Wikipedia:Administrator elections/October 2024/RFC workshop is now open. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:17, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105201700","author":"Novem Linguae","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Novem_Linguae-20241105201700-Novem_Linguae-20241105200400","replies":["c-Extraordinary_Writ-20241105202400-Novem_Linguae-20241105201700"]}}-->

I agree 100% with Novem that the renewal RfC needs to be after all the mini-RfCs are closed. Things like the support threshold are definitely going to affect how comfortable people are with extending the process, and I don't think it's a good idea to ask people to !vote until it's been settled what exactly they're !voting on. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 20:24, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105202400","author":"Extraordinary Writ","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Extraordinary_Writ-20241105202400-Novem_Linguae-20241105201700","replies":["c-Tryptofish-20241105220600-Extraordinary_Writ-20241105202400"]}}-->

I basically agree with other editors that we should get the details worked out before having any sort of up-down vote. I'm speaking as someone who had been very critical of what I have been seeing as a rushed process leading to troubled results throughout the RfA2024 process, but also as someone who is very much in favor of this particular innovation, which I very much want to succeed. Personally, I'd actually have preferred that we allow the Debrief phase to run its course before even starting the RfC workshop, but since that ship has already sailed, I want to put in a plea that we allow plenty of time for that workshop to get all the kinks worked out, before moving on to any next steps. This isn't an emergency, and we shouldn't rush it. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:06, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105220600","author":"Tryptofish","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Tryptofish-20241105220600-Extraordinary_Writ-20241105202400","replies":[]}}-->

Should we include {{Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Recent}} somewhere in WP:AELECT? fanfanboy (block_talk) 17:25, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107172500","author":"Fanfanboy","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fanfanboy-20241107172500-Recent_RfA_template","replies":[]}}-->

I think it might be helpful to go back and edit the candidate pages to use a green/red hat instead of a yellow hat, depending on whether the candidate was elected or not. It may also be helpful to add a sentence to the top of each stating whether or not they were elected, and what their percent was. This would 1) provide important information with less clicks (not having to go find the results page to see) and 2) would be in alignment with what RFA does. Is everyone OK with this? –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:50, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107215000","author":"Novem Linguae","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Novem_Linguae-20241107215000-Modifying_candidate_pages_to_show_if_they_became_an_admin_or_not","replies":["c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241107223100-Novem_Linguae-20241107215000","c-Novem_Linguae-20241108075900-Novem_Linguae-20241107215000"]}}-->

I completely agree, I was just thinking that yesterday after following a link to one of their pages. I think a mention that they passed and the final vote tally, similar to regular RfAs, would be ideal. Hey man im josh (talk) 22:31, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107223100","author":"Hey man im josh","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241107223100-Novem_Linguae-20241107215000","replies":["c-Thryduulf-20241107224600-Hey_man_im_josh-20241107223100"]}}-->

Yes, that sounds useful and sensible. Thryduulf (talk) 22:46, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107224600","author":"Thryduulf","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Thryduulf-20241107224600-Hey_man_im_josh-20241107223100","replies":[]}}-->

Great. Since there's no objections, does anyone want to start on this? –Novem Linguae (talk) 07:59, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241108075900","author":"Novem Linguae","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Novem_Linguae-20241108075900-Novem_Linguae-20241107215000","replies":["c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108130300-Novem_Linguae-20241108075900"]}}-->

I'd give it a go, buuuut I'm tentative because I'm not sure who to mark it as closed by. I certainly don't want to be perceived as the closer. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:03, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241108130300","author":"Hey man im josh","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108130300-Novem_Linguae-20241108075900","replies":["c-FOARP-20241108143100-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108130300","c-Thryduulf-20241108191600-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108130300"]}}-->

Agree. FOARP (talk) 14:31, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241108143100","author":"FOARP","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-FOARP-20241108143100-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108130300","replies":[]}}-->

@Primefac you were the 'crat who flipped the bits. Would you object to being the formal closer? Thryduulf (talk) 19:16, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241108191600","author":"Thryduulf","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Thryduulf-20241108191600-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108130300","replies":["c-Primefac-20241108202100-Thryduulf-20241108191600","c-Isaacl-20241124194800-Thryduulf-20241108191600"]}}-->

If it's an election, and thus a straight vote, I would make the argument that no closer is needed. Primefac (talk) 20:21, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241108202100","author":"Primefac","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Primefac-20241108202100-Thryduulf-20241108191600","replies":["c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108202600-Primefac-20241108202100"]}}-->

I think it's a matter of semantics at this point. I believe it makes sense to note, at the top of the relevant RfAs, that they were successful. However, typically we have

Final: (200/20/2) – Closed as successful by whoever.

I guess we could do something like,

Final result: (200/20/2) – Adminship granted.

Without a signer? Not sure the best approach, but at the end of the day the goal, at least from my POV, is just simply to make it clear they passed and include the vote as we traditionally would. Hey man im josh (talk) 20:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241108202600","author":"Hey man im josh","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108202600-Primefac-20241108202100","replies":["c-Primefac-20241108203100-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108202600","c-Novem_Linguae-20241109191000-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108202600"]}}-->

I suppose my point was that on a normal RFA, the 'crat that closes is the closer. On an admin election, hatting the discussion is a formality. In other words, I would support your second suggestion over the first. Primefac (talk) 20:31, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241108203100","author":"Primefac","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Primefac-20241108203100-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108202600","replies":[]}}-->

I'd just put something like Achieved X% in the October 2024 administrator election. Promoted to administrator. or Achieved X% in the October 2024 administrator election. Not promoted to administrator.. You can sign it or not sign it -- that part probably isn't too important. –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:10, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241109191000","author":"Novem Linguae","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Novem_Linguae-20241109191000-Hey_man_im_josh-20241108202600","replies":["c-HJ_Mitchell-20241109191900-Novem_Linguae-20241109191000"]}}-->

I like this wording but I'd swap "promoted" for "elected". HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241109191900","author":"HJ Mitchell","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-HJ_Mitchell-20241109191900-Novem_Linguae-20241109191000","replies":["c-Isaacl-20241124194800-HJ_Mitchell-20241109191900"],"displayName":"HJ\u00a0Mitchell"}}-->

I agree with using elected instead of promoted, due to the connotations of promoted. isaacl (talk) 19:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241124194800","author":"Isaacl","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Isaacl-20241124194800-HJ_Mitchell-20241109191900","replies":[]}}-->

I agree with Primefac that no formal evaluator of the result is needed. (No one closes arbitration election candidate pages.) Adding a note about the result is a purely ministerial act. I agree with Novem Linguae that it doesn't matter if it's signed or not. There can be a link to the results page, which has the edit that actually released the results. isaacl (talk) 19:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241124194800","author":"Isaacl","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Isaacl-20241124194800-Thryduulf-20241108191600","replies":[]}}-->

Could someone please add the new admins to Wikipedia:Successful adminship candidacies/2024 and to Category:Successful requests for adminship? And to any other lists where their names should appear?--Diannaa (talk) 15:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

No opinion on if we should do this or not. Moving this comment from the debrief page because it's more like an actionable chore than feedback on the process. Thoughts welcome. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:45, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241124104500","author":"Novem Linguae","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Novem_Linguae-20241124104500-Adding_admins_to_various_admin_lists","replies":["c-Thryduulf-20241124125800-Novem_Linguae-20241124104500"]}}-->

Definitely successful election candidates should be added to the first list. The latter I'm not sure, perhaps a new category for successful admin election candidates? Thryduulf (talk) 12:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241124125800","author":"Thryduulf","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Thryduulf-20241124125800-Novem_Linguae-20241124104500","replies":["c-Raladic-20241124151900-Thryduulf-20241124125800"]}}-->

Agree on the latter, I just created Category:Successful_administrator_election as a sibling category and Category:Unsuccessful administrator election and grouped it under the existing Category:Wikipedia administrator elections tree.

I'll start populating it and interlinking then. Raladic (talk) 15:19, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241124151900","author":"Raladic","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Raladic-20241124151900-Thryduulf-20241124125800","replies":["c-Raladic-20241124162900-Raladic-20241124151900"]}}-->

Finished the categories.

As for the page you mentioned @Diannaa - it looks like right now it's also specifically tailored to the RFA process, so a lot of the columns don't make sense.

Instead there is already an existing Wikipedia:Administrator elections/October 2024/Results table for the election results, both positive and negative, so I think that maybe we just want to create a sibling table instead of re-working that existing table and co-integrating them instead? Raladic (talk) 16:29, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241124162900","author":"Raladic","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Raladic-20241124162900-Raladic-20241124151900","replies":["c-Raladic-20241124171300-Raladic-20241124162900"]}}-->

Actually on second thought, we just need a few tweaks to be able to integrate them into the table. I'm working on a Template:AdErow that will work like Template:Rfarow to work in the table, but have the right parameters for the table to generate a useful display. Stay tuned. Raladic (talk) 17:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241124171300","author":"Raladic","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Raladic-20241124171300-Raladic-20241124162900","replies":["c-Raladic-20241124182300-Raladic-20241124171300"]}}-->

 Done, I added all to Wikipedia:Successful_adminship_candidacies/2024#2024 and Wikipedia:Unsuccessful adminship candidacies (Chronological)/2024 using the new Template I created. Raladic (talk) 18:23, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241124182300","author":"Raladic","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Raladic-20241124182300-Raladic-20241124171300","replies":["c-Diannaa-20241124193700-Raladic-20241124182300"]}}-->

The template is a really good idea imo, thanks for that. Diannaa (talk) 19:37, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241124193700","author":"Diannaa","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Diannaa-20241124193700-Raladic-20241124182300","replies":[]}}-->

I think we should the candidate subpage template from Wikipedia:Administrator_elections/October_2024/Candidate_subpage_template to Wikipedia:Administrator_elections/Candidate_subpage_template, somewhere in the template namespace (this is probably a better choice), or some other place that doesn't include a time period because the current location makes it look as if it was exclusive to this trail run. fanfanboy (block_talk) 20:57, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241211205700","author":"Fanfanboy","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fanfanboy-20241211205700-Moving_candidate_subpage_template","replies":["c-Novem_Linguae-20241211220500-Fanfanboy-20241211205700"]}}-->

If we move first election stuff out of the first election subdirectory, it could break first election stuff as we iterate on it. But then again, maybe that'd be worth it to iterate on it? Not sure. Let's leave it for now I think. We can circle back to this when it's time to create second election stuff. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:05, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241211220500","author":"Novem Linguae","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Novem_Linguae-20241211220500-Fanfanboy-20241211205700","replies":["c-Fanfanboy-20241211233200-Novem_Linguae-20241211220500"]}}-->

I'm fine with leaving it for now as it's really not that important. fanfanboy (block_talk) 23:32, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241211233200","author":"Fanfanboy","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Fanfanboy-20241211233200-Novem_Linguae-20241211220500","replies":[]}}-->