This is an archive of past discussions with User:Thryduulf. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

	The Brilliant Idea Barnstar
	Arbitration Committee cases are inherently complicated matters. That your analysis of the case resulted in a suggestion widely accepted by participants and arbitrators alike, demonstrates it to be a brilliant idea. Congratulations! MarshalN20 | Talk 14:51, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you :). I put out lots of ideas, so sooner or later one will turn out to be a good one. It's nice when that's acknowledged though. Thryduulf (talk) 15:53, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has worked on some toolbar improvements, fixing bugs, and improving support for Indic languages as well as other languages with complex characters. The current focus is on improving the reference dialog and expanding the new character inserter tool.

There have been dozens of changes since the last newsletter. Here are some of the highlights:

• Rich copying and pasting is now available. If you copy text from another website, then character formatting and some other HTML attributes are preserved. This means, for example, that if you copy a pre-formatted suggested citation from a source like this, then VisualEditor will preserve the formatting of the title in the citation. Keep in mind that copying the formatting may include formatting that you don't want (like section headings). If you want to paste plain, unformatted text onto a page, then use Control+⇧ Shift+V or ⌘ Command+⇧ Shift+V (Mac).
• Auto-numbered external links like [1] can now be edited just like any other link. However, they cannot be created in VisualEditor easily.
• Several changes to the toolbar and dialogs have been made, and more are on the way. The toolbar has been simplified with a new drop-down text styles menu and an "insert" menu. Your feedback on the toolbar is wanted here. The transclusion/template dialog has been simplified. If you have enabled mathematical formula editing, then the menu item is now called the formula editor instead of LaTeX.
• There is a new character inserter, which you can find in the new "insert" menu, with a capital Omega ("Ω"). It's a very basic set of characters. Your feedback on the character inserter is wanted here.
• Saving the page should seem faster by several seconds now.
• It is now possible to access VisualEditor by manually editing the URL, even if you are not logged in or have not opted in to VisualEditor normally. To do so, append ?veaction=edit to the end of the page name. For example, change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random?veaction=edit to open a random page in VisualEditor. This is intended to support bug testing across multiple browsers, without requiring editors to login repeatedly.

Looking ahead: The transclusion dialog will see further changes in the coming weeks, with a simple mode for single templates and an advanced mode for more complex transclusions. The new character formatting menu on the toolbar will get an arrow to show that it is a drop-down menu. The reference dialog will be improved, and the Reference item will become a button in the main toolbar, rather than an item in the Insert menu.

If you have questions or suggestions for future improvements, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting a note at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:41, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

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please see related thread WT:NPP Dlohcierekim 15:34, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

I just wondered, did you read my note on the talk page of the article before sending me that message? Op47 (talk) 16:14, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

No, because I viewed the talk page before you wrote that note and didn't check it again between declining the speedy deletion and leaving you the note. Sorry. Thryduulf (talk) 16:18, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

No worries. At least I can submit the "bug report" now. Op47 (talk) 17:30, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

• On the John Fortune page, your edit caused an unnamed parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:15, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

As it's in your area, I was wondering if you might get a chance to photograph Woolwich Fire Station? I've started the article, and more importantly it is mentioned in my DYK nom for Robert Pearsall. It is London's oldest operational fire station and it's due to close at the end of the month, so might be the last chance to see it still in use. And a happy new year to you! Edwardx (talk) 11:53, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm actually just moving out the area, but I'll see what I can do. It wont be before the end of next week though. Thryduulf (talk) 14:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. The DYK review for Pearsall is still ongoing, but should be resolved quite soon. Edwardx (talk) 13:32, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm not going to be able to get there in daylight before next week now, sorry. Thryduulf (talk) 13:36, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

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You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Silicon Valley. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.

Undo the reference to San Fernando Valley or I am reporting you. There was agreement on confusion about the term "Silicone Valley", but NOT the connection to the Adult industry. The concensus was to Retarget. You know this and are still pushing your opinion and point of view. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 16:07, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Do feel free to report me if you wish, but you'll note that you are the one reverting without discussion. As I've noted the text of the hatnote is not set in stone. I don't have a point of view about where Silicone Valley should redirect - if I did I would have commented in the discussion and not closed it. My only concern, as expressed in edit summaries and on the talk page, is that users searching for the topic the redirect does not point to need to be able to find the other article. The way this is done on Wikipedia is by having a hatnote at the redirect target. Thryduulf (talk) 18:24, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Because you were involved in a previous discussion on the subject, or related to the subject, please see RfC: What is the best name for the article about the street called "Broadway" which originates in Manhattan? BMK, Grouchy Realist (talk) 02:39, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

You restored Roccodrift's improper addition of my name to an ARBCOM blocks, bans, and restrictions here. Why have I been singled out for this waring?

Item #4 of WP:AC/DS says "Warnings should be clear and unambiguous, link to the decision authorising the sanctions, identify misconduct and advise how the editor may mend their ways". So exactly what misconduct did I allegedly engaged in? The purpose here seems to be to bring shame to my reputation.- MrX 12:03, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't know why you were given the warning, or whether it was merited or not. However it is factual that you were warned and so you are now formally aware that discretionary sanctions apply in that topic area. It is correct that this awareness is formally recorded in the appropriate place.

If you have not and do not engage in any improper conduct in the topic area then the fact that you have been warned is completely irrelevant. Thryduulf (talk) 12:53, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

It is not irrelevant; it is stigmatizing. The warning was improper, unwarranted, malformed and serves only to harass and shame. It was logged in a section called: blocks, bans, and restrictions of which it is none.

I request that it be revision deleted. Please let me know if you will do this.- MrX 13:04, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Requesting removal of a stigmatizing ARBCOM case log entry. Thank you. - MrX 15:03, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. The discussion is about the hatnote on Silicon Valley and can be found here. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 20:42, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

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Draft:Template:Redirect documentation

I've created a sandboxed draft documentation template for redirect documentation. As you commented on my suggestion at RfD, I thought I'd ping you on it. Discussions should be placed at Draft talk:Template:Redirect documentation

-- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 08:59, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out the problem of ownership. I thought that - if the concept of influence by the article creator is accepted, in order to prevent more war - the minimum fairness would demand that those who like the things I am not supposed to name may equip newly created articles with them, from now on. No lawyering required. I thought that was simple ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:42, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

[2] —rybec 16:32, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has worked mostly minor features and fixing bugs. A few significant bugs include working around a bug in CSSJanus that was wrongly flipping images used in some templates in right-to-left (RTL) environments (bug 50910) a major bug that meant inserting any template or other transclusion failed (bug 59002), a major but quickly resolved problem due to an unannounced change in MediaWiki core, which caused VisualEditor to crash on trying to save (bug 59867). This last bugs did not appear on any Wikipedia. Additionally, significant work has been done in the background to make VisualEditor work as an independent editing system.

As of today, VisualEditor is now available as an opt-out feature to all users at 149 active Wikipedias.

• The character inserter tool in the "Insert" menu has a very basic set of characters. The character inserter is especially important for languages that use Latin and Cyrillic alphabets with unusual characters or frequent diacritics. Your feedback on the character inserter is requested. In addition to feedback from any interested editor, the developers would particularly like to hear from anyone who speaks any of the 50+ languages listed under Phase 5 at mw:VisualEditor/Rollouts, including Breton, Mongolian, Icelandic, Welsh, Afrikaans, Macedonian, and Azerbaijani.
• meta:Office hours on IRC have been heavily attended recently. The next one will be held this coming Wednesday, 22 January at 23:00 UTC.
• You can now edit some of the page settings in the "options" dialog – __NOTOC__ and __FORCETOC__ as selection (forced on, forced off, or default setting; bugs 56866 and 56867) and __NOEDITSECTION__ as a checkbox (bug 57166).
• The automated browser tests were adjusted to speed them up and bind more correctly to list items in lists, and updated to a newer version of their ruby dependencies. You can monitor the automated browser tests' results (triggered every twelve hours) live on the server.
• Wikipedia:VisualEditor/User guide was updated recently to show some new and upcoming features.

Looking ahead: The character formatting menu on the toolbar will get a drop-down indicator next Thursday. The reference and media items will be the first two listed in the Insert menu. The help menu will get a page listing the keyboard shortcuts. Looking further out, image handling will be improved, including support for alignment (left, right, and center) and better control over image size (including default and upright sizes). The developers are also working on support for editing redirects and image galleries.

Subscriptions to this newsletter are managed at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Newsletter. Please add or remove your name to change your subscription settings. If you have questions or suggestions for future improvements, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting a note at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) 20:06, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

You may be interested in Bad deletions, WP:IDIDNTHERETHAT, and Personal attacks by admin Jni since you commented in the relevant WT:CSD thread. DES ^(talk) 00:24, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

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Did you see this? A user listed your file File:Borough tube station lifts 01.jpg as possibly unfree giving the reason "copyright". At File talk:Borough tube station lifts 01.jpg, the user refers to photo restrictions decided by Transport for London, but these look like house rules which do not concern Wikipedia. --Stefan2 (talk) 16:35, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the message, I hadn't seen that. Even if the rules did concern Wikipedia, the rules explicitly allow photos to be taken without permission by people passing through the station (which I was). Additionally, there are hundreds (probably thousands actually) of photos on en.wp and Commons that would be governed by the same rules and would need to be discussed as a whole class rather than individually. Thryduulf (talk) 16:40, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree that there were several problems with the PUF nomination. --Stefan2 (talk) 23:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

		The Barnstar of Diplomacy
		...Here's a barnstar. Consider this a token of my appreciation, on behalf of the project as a whole, for your contributions to this RfC, and for summarising a horribly complicated discussion into something that people could understand (and which slightly lessened my headache in closing it!). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:24, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! The whole discussions around PNRs have suffered from some very opaque language at times! Thryduulf (talk) 20:52, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

I can deal with opaque language, but the tangents within tangents about tangents (or about nothing in particular) gave me a headache! But your contribution made things much easier to follow—it's quite easy to work out somebody's opinion on a set of bullet-point proposals compared to threaded discussions (and tangents about random things) about a proposal that's not itself entirely clear! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:05, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Kinetite, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Antimony sulphide (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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You might be interested in this. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 11:50, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Meh - admins gotta have thick skin to personal slags, or we'll break down pretty quick. Anybody who believed in the purpose underlying WP:CIVIL wouldn't be arguing for delete there, so it's hardly worth appealling to (and otherwise it's unenforceable as the knitters of AN/I overturn any attempts to compel people to follow it). Frankly, the only thing to do is show people they can't successfully vent their destructive urges there, and hope they decide to try and vent them somewhere else. WilyD 12:32, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out, Scott is getting increasingly uncivil and his edit summary there is a perfect example of it. Sadly many of the folk at AN/I are exactly the ones who believe that is perfectly acceptable behaviour. Thryduulf (talk) 14:21, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello Thryduulf, the IP editor is back at Elevator. I've recently given the user a warning for disruptive editing and am trying to engage them on the articles talk page. I was wondering if you had any helpful words on the matter. Thanks Fraggle81 (talk) 17:20, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Please see this comment that I directed to you about the semi-protection at Elevator. Dicklyon (talk) 19:45, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Given the discussion and lack of warring after my edit, it's time that you remove the semi-protection. Dicklyon (talk) 07:58, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

In my last comment, not quite 2 days ago, I explicitly noted two situations in which I felt it would be appropriate to remove the semi-protection - specifically a consensus being reached either as to the word the caption should use, or a consensus that the semi-protection was no longer required. I see discussion progressing about lift vs elevator, but no consensus arrived at yet; and there has been no discussion at all about the semi-protection. I will not therefore be carrying out your demand to remove the protection. Unless there has been an obvious consensus arrived at (about the wording or the protection) and the request is polite I will not respond to future communication about the protection at Elevator. Thryduulf (talk) 09:18, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

There seems to be a consensus that my edit was an adequate fix, since nobody has changed it or suggested anything else with any support. Given that semi-protection was not called for in the first place, and the fact that the only person who suggested it has dropped out of the conversation, and given that nobody else thinks the IP editor was out of line, the IP editor's complaint about being treated as second-class seems well founded. So why not just fix it? He is the only guy being punished by it, for no good reason. It only matters to me because I don't like to see serious editors treated like vandals by admins who don't look carefully at what's going on. Dicklyon (talk) 09:48, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

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There is a discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_February_15#Template:Cop about the second nomination of Template:Cop in which you may be interested. --Jax 0677 (talk) 06:27, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

There is a discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_February_8#Template:wprk about the nomination of Template:wprk in which you may be interested. --Jax 0677 (talk) 09:17, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

• Comment - FYI, you may wish to correct your statements at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_February_8#Template:wprk, which should read "Template:Wprk" and "Template:Wpr". --Jax 0677 (talk) 04:04, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

In RE: "You are prohibited from making any reverts, whether explicitly marked as such or not, to the Operation Flavius article (a WP:0RR restriction)", can you clarify what ORR means. I had never heard of it before. Am I allowed to edit the article (i.e. add text), just not change or delete anything already extant? Am I allowed to contribute to talk page discussions on whether to delete or restore something? It is not clear at all. I looked up WP:0RR and it provides little info. I want to be sure I am understanding you correctly.

You can reply here. I'll check back. (In case you notice, I was going to appeal this indefinite 0RR sanction which I view as unduly harsh but withdrew it as I guess it's not worth it.) Quis separabit? 01:53, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry it wasn't clear - it's been a while since I read the WP:0RR page and it's less informative than I thought it was. Anyway, you may still edit the article, including adding changing and removing information in it (the normal rules and standards still apply of course). The only thing you may not do is revert. For the purposes of a 0RR restriction, "revert" is defined the same way as it is for the standard 3RR restriction that applies to everyone and the 1RR that applies to the Operation Flavius article. Specifically, "An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert." - see the pink box at WP:3RR. The same exceptions do apply, but for your own sake please be very careful if you use them. Thryduulf (talk) 10:45, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I am still unclear. How can "changing and removing information" not be a revert of some other editor's work?? Why are you using threatening language ("but for your own sake please be very careful if you use them"), rather than helpful language like "If you are not sure, please contact me and I will help you determine if something constitutes a revert". You're treating me like I am some disruptive newbie rather than a long-standing editor who simply forgot that all Troubles-related articles (which I largely avoid) are 1RR and misinterpreted HJ Mitchell's bold, revert, discuss comment. I waited 24 hours before making a minor change and then only after contacting the two other major editors (Mitchell and Scolaire) on that article on their own talk pages and explicitly seeking consensus. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. You have humiliated me over this nonsense by leaving a message singling me out on the Operation Flavius talkpage for everyone to see. (I know and own my personal history on Wikipedia and don't need any reminders. Suffice it to say that I would never dishonor the privilege of being allowed to edit Wikipedia.) Quis separabit? 18:23, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Regarding your first question, the difference is that reverts are specifically changing the article back to a prior version, usually one very recently preceding the current version. This is distinct from changing and removing information as part of a rephrasing, reorganisation, addition of different content, etc. that creates a version of the article different to one that has previously existed. Wikipedia:Reverting contains a good explanation of the difference, and editors on the talk pages there or at WT:HD will probably do a better job than I can if this explanation still doesn't fully enlighten you.

The comment about language is one where you need to a bit more assuming of good faith. I was trying to be helpful and friendly and trying not to be threatening. Obviously I failed, and I take your comments on board, but my intention and your expectation are in agreement.

I looked at the article and saw a series of reverts rather than discussion, and several notes on your talk page about the way you were treating reverts. There is a big notice on the article talk page about it being subject to the Troubles 1RR restriction and you have been involved with arbitration enforcement related to the Troubles discretionary sanctions previously, so you were clearly aware of them. I felt that the 0RR restriction is both appropriate and preferable to blocking (which the violation of the 1RR would have permitted any uninvolved admin to do). If you feel it is disproportionate, you are free to appeal it at WP:AE.

The message on the talk page is I believe standard, and was intended to be simply informative rather than threatening or humiliating. Thryduulf (talk) 19:58, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for clarification of the question, so essential before one can think about an answer! I have sorrow pictured on my talk, - this is one of them ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:38, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has worked on some small changes to the user interface, such as moving the reference item to the top of the Insert menu, as well as some minor features and fixing bugs, especially for rich copying and pasting of references.

The biggest change was the addition of more features to the image dialog, including the ability to set alignment (left, right, center), framing options (thumbnail, frame, frameless, and none), adding alt text, and defining the size manually. There is still some work to be done here, including a quick way to set the default size.

• The main priority is redesigning the reference dialog, with the goal of providing autofill features for ISBNs and URLs and streamlining the process. Current concept drawings are available at mw:VisualEditor/Design/Reference Dialog. Please share your ideas about making referencing quick and easy with the designers.
• A few bugs in the existing reference dialog were fixed. The toolbar was simplified to remove galleries and lists from the reference dialog. When you re-use references, it now correctly displays the references again, rather than just the number and name. If you paste content into a dialog that can't fit there (e.g. ==section headings== in references), it now strips out the inappropriate HTML.
• You can now edit image galleries inside VisualEditor. At this time, the gallery tool is a very limited option that gives you access to the wikitext. It will see significant improvements at a later date.
• The character inserter tool in the "Insert" menu is being redesigned. Your feedback on the special character inserter is still wanted, especially if you depend on Wikipedia's character inserters for your normal editing rather than using the ones built into your computer.
• You can now see a help page about keyboard shortcuts in the page menu (three bars next to the Cancel button) (T54844).
• If you edit categories, your changes will now display correctly after saving the page (T50560).
• Saving the page should be faster now (T61660).
• Any community can ask to test a new tool to edit TemplateData by leaving a note at T53734.

Looking ahead: The link tool will tell you when you're linking to a disambiguation or redirect page. The warning about wikitext will hide itself after you remove the wikitext markup in that paragraph. Support for creating and editing redirects is in the pipeline. Looking further out, image handling will be improved, including default and upright sizes. The developers are also working on support for viewing and editing hidden HTML comments, some behavioral magic words like DISPLAYTITLE, and in-line language setting (dir="rtl").

If you have questions or suggestions for future improvements, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting a note at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) 04:21, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

• Don't you think it would have been considerate had you left a message on my talk page indicating that you closed this? Erpert ^{blah, blah, blah...} 08:18, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
  • It would have been considerate to, yes, but I don't think that not doing so was inconsiderate. It is not standard practice to leave messages on the talk page of the nominator when closing discussions, even when done early, and particularly when the nominator appears to be an experienced Wikipedian. Thryduulf (talk) 09:49, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

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	The Real Life Barnstar
	Thank you very much for all your hard work on Wikipedia Takes UCL last week. It was an event from which we've taken many lessons and I believe that a good number of people had a very positive experience from it thanks to you and the team you managed to coordinate. Here's to the next one! ToniSant (talk) 08:11, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. It was a good experience for me as well. Thryduulf (talk) 10:35, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

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Thanks for the procedural close. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SimonTrew (talk • contribs) 21:40, 2 March 2014‎

You're welcome. Thryduulf (talk) 21:53, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Unless I am mistaken, you were going to be at the London meeting of the Wikipedians or something last month but couldn't make it? Terrible pub that is up at Holborn, but I could have found a better, I know that part of Town quite well (actually the Cheshire Cheese under the viaduct on the corner of Lloyds Lane and Jew's Alley on the way up to Fenchurch St is quite good and does food and stuff of the cheap variety), was very much hoping to meet you in person and shake your hand to thank you for all your hard work on Wikipedia and how you make it so much better and perhaps say egységedra your good health. Si Trew (talk) 22:04, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I've made most of the recent London meets, including last month, and plan to be at the one next week. I didn't make it to the most recent Cambridge one though, maybe that's what you're thinking of? Anyway, it's always good to meet Wikipedians!

As for the pubs, I don't know the Fenchurch Street area at all. Wikipedia and a tube geek group I'm involved with both meet in the Pendrel's Oak (which fulfils the requirements of a cheap and capacious pub with at least acceptable food and beer) so I spend quite a bit of time there, and I'm starting to get to know the area around the WMUK office, but that's about it for anywhere closer in than Zone 3. (PS I quite enjoyed reading your ramble!) Thryduulf (talk) 22:27, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately, a bit too late - I live in Hungary now. But if you are ever over Budapest way I have a kinda nice place to crash with some spare rooms etc (we own it and have been doing it up the last few years and that's why we're moving here and why I have too much time on my hands for Wikipedia while I wait for stuff to arrive etc). In Cambridge, The Devonshire Arms is a cracking pub not far from the station, only been opened a couple of years, I seem to recall Dom the landlord never gave me back my MSDN copy of Windows XP when he was putting in the wireless network. Of course Cambridge has lots of cracking pubs but that is quite a good one for a Wikipedia meetup, since it is quite close to the station etc. and has a very lively atmosphere, lovely Victorian corner pub. The Eagle on Bene't St is also quite good although a bit touristy but central, but actually not as kinda over touristy as some of the others and their beer is actually quite well kept. I was thinking of the London one but I couldn't make it with all this moving house business. Thanks for all your hard work on WP, I know we sometimes differ in our opinions (isn't that kinda the point of having a discussion?) but I do see how much hard work you do to try to make the encyclopaedia a bit better day by day, and I try to do the same (fail sometimes of course, but try). Si Trew (talk) 22:25, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your help and guidance in fixing the redirects. Nadesai (talk) 13:26, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

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Just a reminder that the West Midlands Police Museum editathon is this Saturday; I look forward to seeing you there. Please take a moment to re-read the event page, so you know what to bring with you, and what to expect on the day. Do let me know if you have any questions, or can't attend. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:54, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

I left a brief comment in the now-closed thread, but ... The narrow behavior band I was interested in requires assuming the person is operating in good faith. AGF vanishes with six socks and at least one operating in good hand / bad hand mode, from what I can see. I support the socking block and the ARBPIA topic ban now. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:37, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your time and contributions in Birmingham today; and for making a long journey to be there. It was good to see you, and I hope you got home safely. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:38, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi. You have commented on Draft v1 or v2 in the Arbitration Committee's 2013 review of the discretionary sanctions system. I thought you'd like to know Draft v3 has now been posted to the main review page. You are very welcome to comment on it on the review talk page. Regards, AGK [•] 00:14, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Gracias. :-)--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:41, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has mostly worked on changes to the template and image dialogs.

The biggest change in the last few weeks was the redesign of the template dialog. The template dialog now opens in a simplified mode that lists parameters and their descriptions. (The complex multi-item transclusion mode can be reached by clicking on "Show options" from inside the simplified template dialog.) Template parameters now have a bigger, auto-sizing input box for easier editing. With today's update, searching for template parameters will become case-insensitive, and required template parameters will display an asterisk (*) next to their edit boxes. In addition to making it quicker and easier to see everything when you edit typical templates, this work was necessary to prepare for the forthcoming simplified citation dialog. The main priority in the coming weeks is building this new citation dialog, with the ultimate goal of providing autofill features for ISBNs, URLs, DOIs and other quick-fills. This will add a new button on the toolbar, with the citation templates available picked by each wiki's community. Concept drawings can be seen at mw:VisualEditor/Design/Reference Dialog. Please share your ideas about making referencing quick and easy with the designers.

• The link tool now tells you when you're linking to a disambiguation or redirect page. Pages that exist, but are not indexed by the search engine, are treated like non-existent pages (T56361).
• Wikitext warnings will now hide when you remove wikitext from the paragraph you are editing.
• The character inserter tool in the "Insert" menu has been slightly redesigned, to introduce larger buttons. Your suggestions for more significant changes to the special character inserter are still wanted.
• The page options menu (three bars, next to the Cancel button) has expanded. You can create and edit redirect pages, set page options like __STATICREDIRECT__, __[NO]INDEX__ and __[NO]NEWEDITSECTION__, and more. New keyboard shortcuts are listed there, and include undoing the last action, clearing formatting, and showing the shortcut help window. If you switch from VisualEditor to wikitext editing, your edit will now be tagged.
• It is easier to edit images. There are more options and they are explained better. If you add new images to pages, they will also be default size. You can now set image sizes to the default, if another size was previously specified. Full support for upright sizing systems, which more readily adapt image sizes to the reader's screen size, is planned.
• VisualEditor adds fake blank lines so you can put your cursor there. These "slugs" are now smaller than normal blank lines, and are animated to be different from actual blank lines.
• You can use the Ctrl+Alt+S or ⌘ Command+⌥ Option+S shortcuts to open the save window, and you can preview your edit summary when checking your changes in the save window.
• After community requests, VisualEditor has been deployed to the Interlingual Occidental Wikipedia, the Portuguese Wikibooks, and the French Wikiversity.
• Any community can ask for custom icons for their language in the character formatting menu (bold, italic, etc.) by making a request on Bugzilla or by contacting Product Manager James Forrester.

The developers apologize for a regression bug with the deployment on 6 March 2014, which caused the incorrect removal of |upright size definitions on a handful of pages on the English Wikipedia, among others. The root cause was fixed, and the broken pages were fixed soon after.

Looking ahead: Several template dialogs will become more compact. Looking further out, the developers are also working on support for viewing and editing hidden HTML comments. You will be able to see the Table of Contents change live as you edit the page, rather than it being hidden. In-line language setting (dir="rtl") may be offered to a few Wikipedias soon.

If you have questions or suggestions for future improvements, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting a note at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback or by joining the office hours on 19 April 2014 at 2000 UTC. Thank you! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:44, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

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I almost never think that when I read comments here, but that one counts. Must be blue moon or something. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 16:34, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! Eloquence is not something I'm often accused of! Thryduulf (talk) 20:16, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Me needer buckaroo NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 21:38, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

This seems a little awkward following on the heels of Eloquent above. This is a note about a brief phrase that appears on your User page in a section entitled Typos & Spelling Errors

- colour and realise are not spelling errors!

There are thousands of word pairs that well illustrate the British -ise and the American -ize suffix differences. Unfortunately, realize isn't one of them. Realize is correct (and the preferred) British spelling. This particular word and spelling is unrelated to the usual American -ize suffix. The British use of realize pre-dates its American usage by two centuries. I am not at all saying that your chosen spelling of realise is incorrect in any way. I just don't think it is a good choice for your purpose. Both spellings are correct in British usage. Realize has been the British preference for 80% of the last 250 years, including now. It is in evidence as the preferred form in the most reliable of British sources, Nature magazine, The Lancet, and the Oxford English Dictionary. To see the usage in British English publications over the last 250 years, please click here to chart the comparison in Google's N-gram Viewer.

I was discussing the word "orientate" recently. As I am sure you are aware, that word is perfectly acceptable in British English but induces tirades of misapplied self-righteousness from the calmest of Americans (!) It isn't of the -ise/-ize form, but is sure to garner American attention. If you wish to stick with an -ise/ize illustration, then an interesting choice would be Americanise, which of course becomes Americanize when ... er ... Americanised.

Feel free to archive (or even delete) this comment.

With thanks for your continuing Wiki-efforts, from a Welsh-born, English raised, California resident. ChrisJBenson (talk) 01:35, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the note, but as I do prefer -ise spellings in almost all cases (whether the -ize versions are Americanisms or not) I'm rather tempted to just leave it as it's been for just shy of 9 years, but I'll think about it. I may get round to making myself a better user page one of these decades, at which point it'll likely go as attitudes to changing other people's spelling are clearer now than they were back in 2005! Thryduulf (talk) 01:55, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

There are several redirects for discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_March_27 in which you may be interested. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:50, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

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		The Real-Life Barnstar
		Chris, I'm indebted to you for your help at the Marjon event. Gil asked me to pass on her thanks in particular for your "excellent and clear explanations of the technical aspects of copyright". Next time I'm looking for helpers for an event, you'll be top of my list. Thanks again, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:21, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Harry. It was an enjoyable event, and I'm glad it was well received. Thryduulf (talk) 13:51, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM – Volume IV, Issue III, March 2014 Headlines Australia and New Zealand report: Summer is over Germany report: GLAM ship; Open GLAM hackathon; Science 2.0 conference; GLAM meetup Mexico report: New GLAM projects in Mexico and Reynosa's City Hall donation of historical photos Netherlands report: Education; Libraries; Museums; Maps, Earth Norway report: GLAM edit-a-thon at Preus museum Sweden report: Many ways to meet Wikipedia UK report: Art, Women, the Police and the build up to Wikimania USA report: Women's History Month Open Access report: Open Access at Wikimania; Open Access Button; Topic Pages Calendar: April's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

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There are several redirects for discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_April_14 in which you may be interested. --Jax 0677 (talk) 03:17, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I added two more pics to commons:Category:Leinster Gardens. At Coventry meetup, the friend of mine (Greg) who came along, used to live in Leinster Gardens. IIRC, it was one of the 20s. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:58, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

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The arbitration clarification request, either involving you, or in which you participated (Rich Farmbrough) has resulted in a clarification motion by the Arbitration Committee

The Clarification can be found at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Rich_Farmbrough#Clarifications_by_motion and the complete discussion can be found at Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Rich_Farmbrough#Clarification_request:_Rich_Farmbrough_.28April_2014.29 For the Arbitration Committee,--S Philbrick(Talk) 16:28, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has mostly worked on performance improvements, image settings, and preparation for a simplified citation template tool in its own menu.

• In an oft-requested improvement, VisualEditor now displays red links (links to non-existent pages) in the proper color. Links to sister projects and external URLs are still the same blue as local links.
• You can now open templates by double-clicking them or by selecting them and pressing Return. This also works for references, images, galleries, mathematical equations, and other "nodes".
• VisualEditor has been disabled for pages that were created as translations of other pages using the Translate extension (common at Meta and MediaWiki.org). If a page has been marked for translation, you will see a warning if you try to edit it using VisualEditor.
• When you try to edit protected pages with VisualEditor, the full protection notice and most recent log entry are displayed. Blocked users see the standard message for blocked users.
• The developers fixed a bug that caused links on sub-pages to point to the wrong location.
• The size-changing controls in the advanced settings section of the media or image dialog were simplified further. VisualEditor's media dialog supports more image display styles, like borderless images.
• If there is not enough space on your screen to display all of the tabs (for instance, if your browser window is too narrow), the second edit tab will now fold into the drop-down menu (where the "Move" item is currently housed). On the English Wikipedia, this moves the "Edit beta" tab into the menu; on most projects, it moves the "Edit source" tab. This is only enabled in the default Vector skin, not for Monobook users. See this image for an example showing the "Edit source" and "View history" tabs after they moved into the drop-down menu.
• After community requests, VisualEditor has been deployed as an opt-in feature at Meta and on the French Wikinews.

Looking ahead: A new, locally controlled menu of citation templates will put citations immediately in front of users. You will soon be able to see the Table of Contents while editing. Support for upright image sizes (preferred for accessibility) is being developed. In-line language setting (dir="rtl") will be offered as a Beta Feature soon. Looking further out, the developers are also working on support for viewing and editing hidden HTML comments. It will be possible to upload images to Commons from inside VisualEditor.

If you have questions or suggestions for future improvements, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting a note at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback or by joining the office hours on Monday, 19 May 2014 at 18:00 UTC. If you'd like to get this on your own page, subscribe at Wikipedia:VisualEditor#Newsletter for English Wikipedia only or at meta:VisualEditor/Newsletter for any project. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:23, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

An arbitration clarification request(Rich Farmbrough bot issue), either involving you, or in which you participated has been archived, because the bot request has been withdrawn.

The original discussion can be found here. For the arbitration committee --S Philbrick(Talk) 14:39, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Do we have the numbers for this?

©Geni (talk) 17:03, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

If you mean "are there enough people to make this worth going ahead with?" then, yes. Oxford meets are always smaller than London ones, but there have been enough people to make it worthwhile every time I've been.

If that wasn't the question you were asking, then you'll have to try rephrasing, sorry. Thryduulf (talk) 23:45, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

@Thryduulf:, see other answers at User talk:Redrose64#meta:Meetup/Oxford/15. --Redrose64 (talk) 07:06, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

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This Month in GLAM – Volume IV, Issue IV, April 2014 Headlines Belgium report: Meeting EU policy group; Seminar World Book and Copyright Day Germany report: "Coding da Vinci" - an open culture star is born! Ireland report: Clontarf 1000 - Easter Saturday edit-a-thon in Dublin Netherlands report: GLAMwiki Toolset workshop; Wikidata workshop; War Memorials; WiRs Sweden report: Umeå, literature, sami life and central museums, they all #JoinUs UK report: Art, Tanks and WIRs USA report: Wikimedia Activities in the U.S. Special story: Wiki Edit-a-thon Handbook Open Access report: Wikipedia-based altmetrics; Barriers to reuse of OA materials Calendar: May's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

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Hi, thanks for your help yesterday connecting a Tesco Hudl to my wireless router. We eventually had to call PlusNet support, and do a full factory reset followed by a power-cycle. It's working now, as is the Android mobile. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:19, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

• Good to know! Cheers, Thryduulf (talk) 13:15, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

On 15 May 2014, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Stephen Sutton, which you recently nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.

--Spencer^T♦C 01:06, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

An arbitration amendment request(Fae), to which you contributed, resulted in a motion.

The original discussion can be found here. For the arbitration committee --S Philbrick(Talk) 16:09, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

An arbitration amendment request(Fae), to which you contributed, resulted in a motion.

The original discussion can be found here. For the arbitration committee --S Philbrick(Talk) 16:09, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Because you participated in the most recent discussion regarding the proposed move of Hillary Rodham Clinton, you are hereby notified per Wikipedia:Canvassing#Appropriate notification that the administrative determination of consensus from that discussion is being challenged at Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2014 May. Please feel free to comment there. Cheers! bd2412 T 19:23, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has mostly worked on the new citation tool, improving performance, reducing technical debt, and other infrastructure needs.

The biggest change in the last few weeks is the new citation template menu, labeled "⧼visualeditor-toolbar-cite-label⧽". The new citation menu offers a locally configurable list of citation templates on the main toolbar. It adds or opens references using the simplified template dialog that was deployed last month. This tool is in addition to the "⧼visualeditor-dialogbutton-reference-tooltip⧽" item in the "Insert" menu, and it is not displayed unless it has been configured for that wiki. To enable this tool on your wiki, see the instructions at VisualEditor/Citation tool.

Eventually, the VisualEditor team plans to add autofill features for these citations. When this long-awaited feature is created, you could add an ISBN, URL, DOI or other identifier to the citation tool, and VisualEditor would automatically fill in as much information for that source as possible. The concept drawings can be seen at mw:VisualEditor/Design/Reference Dialog, and your ideas about making referencing quick and easy are still wanted.

• There is a new Beta Feature for setting content language and direction. This allows editors who have opted in to use the "Language" tool in the "Insert" menu to add HTML span tags that label text with the language and as being left-to-right (LTR) or right-to-left (RTL), like this: <span lang="en" dir="ltr">English</span>. This tool is most useful for pages whose text combines multiple languages with different directions, common on Right-to-Left wikis.
• The tool for editing mathematics formulae in VisualEditor has been slightly updated and is now available to all users, as the "⧼math-visualeditor-mwmathinspector-title⧽" item in the "Insert" menu. It uses LaTeX like in the wikitext editor.
• The layout of template dialogs has been changed, putting the label above the field. Parameters are now called "fields", to avoid a technical term that many editors are unfamiliar with.
• TemplateData has been expanded: You can now add "suggested" parameters in TemplateData, and VisualEditor will display them in the template dialogs like required ones. "Suggested" is recommended for parameters that are commonly used, but not actually required to make the template work. There is also a new type for TemplateData parameters: wiki-file-name, for file names. The template tool can now tell you if a parameter is marked as being obsolete.
• Some templates that previously displayed strangely due to absolute CSS positioning hacks should now display correctly.
• Several messages have changed: The notices shown when you save a page have been merged into those used in the wikitext editor, for consistency. The message shown when you "⧼visualeditor-toolbar-cancel⧽" out of an edit is clearer. The beta dialog notice, which is shown the first time you open VisualEditor, will be hidden for logged-in users via a user preference rather than a cookie. As a result of this change, the beta notice will show up one last time for all logged-in users on their next VisualEditor use after Thursday's upgrade.
• Adding a category that is a redirect to another category prompts you to add the target category instead of the redirect.
• In the "Images and media" dialog, it is no longer possible to set a redundant border for thumbnail and framed images.
• There is a new Template Documentation Editor for TemplateData. You can test it by editing a documentation subpage (not a template page) at Mediawiki.org: edit mw:Template:Sandbox/doc, and then click "Manage template documentation" above the wikitext edit box. If your community would like to use this TemplateData editor at your project, please contact product manager James Forrester or file an enhancement request in Bugzilla.
• There have been multiple small changes to the appearance: External links are shown in the same light blue color as in MediaWiki. This is a lighter shade of blue than the internal links. The styling of the "Style text" (character formatting) drop-down menu has been synchronized with the recent font changes to the Vector skin. VisualEditor dialogs, such as the "⧼visualeditor-toolbar-savedialog⧽" dialog, now use a "loading" animation of moving lines, rather than animated GIF images. Other changes were made to the appearance upon opening a page in VisualEditor which should make the transition between reading and editing be smoother.
• The developers merged in many minor fixes and improvements to MediaWiki interface integration (e.g., edit notices), and made VisualEditor handle Education Program pages better.
• At the request of the community, VisualEditor has been deployed to Commons as an opt-in. It is currently available by default for 161 Wikipedia language editions and by opt-in through Beta Features at all others, as well as on several non-Wikipedia sites.

Looking ahead: The toolbar from the PageTriage extension will no longer be visible inside VisualEditor. More buttons and icons will be accessible from the keyboard. The "Keyboard shortcuts" link will be moved out of the "Page options" menu, into the "Help" menu. Support for upright image sizes (preferred for accessibility) and inline images is being developed. You will be able to see the Table of Contents while editing. Looking further out, the developers are also working on support for viewing and editing hidden HTML comments. VisualEditor will be available to all users on mobile devices and tablet computers. It will be possible to upload images to Commons from inside VisualEditor.

If you have questions or suggestions for future improvements, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting a note at mw:VisualEditor/Feedback or by joining the office hours on Thursday, 19 June 2014 at 10:00 UTC. If you'd like to get this newsletter on your own page (about once a month), please subscribe at w:en:Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Newsletter for English Wikipedia only or at meta:VisualEditor/Newsletter for any project. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) 22:16, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

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On 25 May 2014, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article 2014 Jewish Museum of Belgium shooting, which you recently nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.

ThaddeusB (talk) 20:42, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Hello there, a proposal regarding pre-adminship review has been raised at Village pump by Anna Frodesiak. Your comments here is very much appreciated. Many thanks. Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:47, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I did the rest of the pages. It'll go into MediaWiki:Geonotice.js a bit closer to the time, no earlier than evening of 8 June. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:49, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Regarding that photo of a London Underground car which I wasn't sure if it was London Underground R Stock. There's a way of distinguishing R Stock from O/P/Q38 Stock which doesn't rely on colour - the destination indicator. On the O/P/Q38 Stocks, it's enamel plates slotted into a frame, rather like those of the London Underground 1938 Stock, and mounted below the offside windscreen (the train service number is in the offside windscreen at the bottom); but in the R Stock, the train service number is below the offside windscreen and the destination is a roller-blind mounted in the top of the offside windscreen. The paint date and stock type code should be stencilled on the curve where the front meets the side, just below the middle row of route indicator lights.

If you're certain that it's R Stock, you can make a further check. On true R Stock (R47/R49/R59) cars, the ventilators on the car sides are angled top and bottom, like this, whereas on the R38 cars (converted from Q38), the ventilators have a flat bottom, like this CO/CP Stock car. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:49, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

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	Happy Adminship	from the Birthday Committee
	Wishing Thryduulf/archive13 a very happy adminship anniversary on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! -- Ramesh Ramaiah talk 05:39, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! This was a very nice and entirely unexpected message to get on my talk page. I had completely forgotten I gained adminship on 2nd June 2005! Thryduulf (talk) 12:19, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello. I have nominated Georiga State Route 213 for deletion here. Axl ¤ [Talk] 19:59, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM – Volume IV, Issue V, May 2014 Headlines Australia and New Zealand report: Libraries' support continues and strengthens Czech Republic report: Workshop in Seifhennersdorf‎; WikiTown Přibyslav Germany report: GLAM on Tour touring; WMDE Data fueling station Hungary report: QRpedia projects in Hungary Italy report: Wikipedian in Residence and Open Data Government Hackathon Mexico report: Friends of Oaxacan Folk Art donates 357 photos; partnership with Museo Soumaya; Iberocoop edit-a-thon Netherlands report: Libraries; Wikidata & DBpedia; Wikipedians in Residence; Open Culture Data Norway report: 2 x GLAM edit-a-thons Sweden report: Award, competitions and Coat of Arms UK report: No trouble at t'mill; Assisting Metropolitan Police with image licensing enquiries; Wikimania is coming USA report: New Edit-a-thons; GLAM at Wikiconference USA; Activities in New York City Open Access report: WikiProject Open Access launched on the English Wikisource Calendar: June's GLAM events Read this edition in full • Single-page To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

Hello! I don't know if you're aware but there is a wikimedia meet up in Leeds this Saturday (14 June) if you're interested. Hopefully you can make it. Regards IJA (talk) 18:40, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

• Yep, I'm signed up on the page and my travel is booked! See you there. Thryduulf (talk) 19:52, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Awesome, see you there! IJA (talk) 20:20, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

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Hello. I noticed you were the admin who summed up this discussion. Thought it might be prudent to bounce the following redirect related topic off you.

I was entering the following information to the two relevant magazine articles:

In the September 2013 issue of Dragon (#427) an article by Wizards of the Coast game designer and editor Chris Perkins announced that both Dragon and its sibling publication Dungeon will be going on hiatus starting January 2014 pending the release of the Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition / D&D Next product line.^{[citation needed]}

I then wanted to see if there was an existing article on "5th Edition" to integrate a variation of this information into and I am sure you realize what I found. I raise this topic NOT to re-open the discussion in general, but rather to provide a heads-up that starting in July and over the following five months Wizards of the Coast is going to be releasing the new rulebooks for 5th edition and so that redirect may become busy and may also become frustrating for some readers. Is it possible/appropriate to have 5th Edition (and 5th edition also) route through a DAB for both of the related Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons articles? (It is interesting that both targets are for different products by the same company, yes?)

PS: On a related note, I see someone added a {CN} tag even though the source is clearly identified in the text itself. How does one correctly cite a webpage for an online magazine that can only be accessed by paid subscribers?

66.97.209.215 (talk) 14:35, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

The closure of that discussion explicitly made it clear that there was no prejudice to disambiguation. The way to go about it in your situation is to choose whether the disambiguation page should be at 5th Edition or 5th edition and create the disambigation page there, overwriting the redirect if necessary, and redirecting the other title to the disambiguation page (tag it with {{R from other capitalisation}} and {{R from ambiguous page}}).

You cite material that is only available to paid subscribers in exactly the same way as you would cite that material if it were available free. There is no requirement for the information to be verifiable by everyone, as long as it is verifiable by someone (although if a free source and a non-free source are equally good, the free source is preferred). Thryduulf (talk) 22:01, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) On that last point, see WP:PAYWALL. If you are citing material that is only available to paid subscribers, some people like a warning to be present, so you may mark it as such: if {{citation}} or the {{cite xxx}} templates are in use, add the parameter |subscription=yes otherwise add the template {{subscription required}} --Redrose64 (talk) 06:19, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I created this paragraph without personal access to the paywall article, based on good faith that consistent quoting/excerpting of the editorial text in multiple blog & forum discussions is an accurate portrayal of the actual publication. None of those secondary websites would pass WP:RS but I have put in a request for the primary source behind-the-paywall link via WP:WikiProject Resource Exchange. 66.97.209.215 (talk) 12:10, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

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You thanked me for one of my recent edits, so here is a heart-felt...  YOU'RE WELCOME, Thryduulf! It's a pleasure, and I sincerely hope that you enjoy your continued improvement of this inspiring encyclopedia! – Paine

09:40, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

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A year ago, you were the 576th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:18, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! Thryduulf (talk) 15:25, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

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Thanks for all your help sorting out talk page banners etc related to my work on Scheduled Monuments in Somerset & the 7 sub lists.— Rod ^talk 16:14, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

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Thanks for your help and hard work at RfD. I only just got back after a long Wikibreak, and am probably throwing in too much. Your contributions and wisdom, I for one truly value, even when I disagree with you. Your courtesy and politeness is a shining example of what Wikipedia should be.

Here is your barnstar:

/\ <- * -> \ ^ / V

I tippie tapped type that just for you. Si Trew (talk) 11:17, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

thank you! It'll take me being more awake than I am now to work out how best to add it to my collection though! Thryduulf (talk) 21:44, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

You're more than welcome. This reply is superfluous. Yours most sincerely Si Trew (talk) 22:36, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

I was reading up last night – only vaguely related, I forget how I got there – your comments at ArbCom about user Rich Farmborough (deliberately misspelled, delete the first O). His bots have been plaguing me for years. Glad they have been stopped. No substitute for thinking, as you imply. Si Trew (talk) 10:30, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the idea you presented on the IPhone 6C RFD discussion: If that's possible, the potential problem I can foresee with that proposed is that if/when the applicable article is created, essentially all misspelled redirects would still be subject to the equivalent of creation protection. Also, what having an edit filter such as this would essentially act as a form of preemptive page protection, which, from what I understand, is against some sort of long-standing consensus in general. I've given this a bit of thought, and have an alternate idea that I may propose soon which would essentially be a new speedy deletion criterion for redirects: "Redirects that meet certain titling patterns". Basically, this criterion would allow speedy deletion of certain letter/number combinations that have been agreed to being speedy deleted by consensus. (So, if the criterion gets approved, initially, nothing could be deleted by this criterion until a separate discussion takes place to determine an example in which this can happen, such as the "iPhone####" example, but would be specified as any title that contains "IPhone" at the beginning and 4 characters after it, not including spaces.) The criterion may appear as follows:

R4 (or maybe G14): Redirects (or maybe titles) that meet certain consensus-supported titling patterns

This criterion applied to redirects (and/or articles) with certain titling patterns in which community consensus has agreed that their existence is harmful to the integrity of Wikipedia. To make a group if titles eligible for this criterion, a discussion needs be initiated and closed with consensus to add the specific titling combination requirements to this deletion criteria. Once that is accomplished, the criteria would be added to the list of eligible speedy deletion options for R4. After the article or redirect is deleted for this criterion, the title should be immediately salted.

• There are only two exceptions to when this criteria would not apply to redirects that the community has deemed eligible for this criterion:

1. A article exists with references at that title. For redirects, the title differs in title only by spacing or capitalization from the target article with references. (Redirects from misspellings.)
2. Either the lead paragraph or a section exists in the target article (with references) that describes the redirect's title. Capitalization and spacing differences are also allowed only.

• After a title is deleted and salted per this criterion, the title can only become "unsalted" in the following two scenarios:

1. A draft with the salted title in any namespace (except the article namespace) is created with references. At this point, the draft may be moved to the protected article title.
2. Either an article with references (or the lead paragraph or a section of the article) exists at a title that differs from the protected title's spelling by capitalization and/or spacing only. In this case, a redirect may be created at the protected title, possibly utilizing the WP:AFC/R process

...So, this is basically the rough draft of my idea. What are your thoughts? Steel1943 (talk) 19:28, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

• I haven't had chance to give it detailed thought, but my initial impressions are "too complicated" and "very BITEy". I don't think that speedy deletion along these lines the way to go here - I doubt there would be consensus for it in the first place even. My gut feeling is that this would be disruptively abusable. Thryduulf (talk) 06:36, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

• I can see your point, since I was sort of thinking the same when this idea came to me. At this point, I'm wondering if there's any way to simplify the instructions bit, but accomplish the same result. I also was throwing around the idea of also adding a template that can be used whenever an example can be added and/or requiring that when an example is added that it be added via an WP:RFC to get wider consensus. But ... eh, I guess if there's basically no way to simplify this, I guess either the edit filter would work ... maybe ... or have to keep on nominating these redirects when they show up. Is there another option that I'm not even considering or realizing? Steel1943 (talk) 12:49, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

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You marked the Christopher Thomas Knight as an orphan. While I am sure there are Wikipedia guidelines regarding orphans, you are still required to use common sense. Knight is a hermit, which means he lived in isolation without influencing anything; of course there is nothing that links to him, since he cut connections to everything! Complaining that an article about him has no connections is silly. Thue (talk) 16:50, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

He might not have connection to many things, true, but this is about connections to the article about him. His article should be linked from such other articles as those about local area, those about hermits, those about anyone else with similar circumstances as see-alsos, etc. Thryduulf (talk) 17:06, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Wanted to clarify on Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_August_26#You.27re_Dead.21 (recent close). Consensus did not appear to be for retargeting to the disambig page (all but the IP and nom were against), but I wanted to make sure there wasn't a simple misunderstanding. czar ♔ 15:41, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

It's true there wasn't a lot to go on, but most of the arguments against were actually not concerned with the redirect but with moving the article about the album, which is nothing to do with RfD. The arguments expressed in favour of targetting the dab page were stronger than those advocating the redirect should point elsewhere. As noted in the discussion, WP:RM is available if anyone wants an article moved over a redirect. Thryduulf (talk) 15:56, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Right, but it was my understanding that everyone besides the nom and IP ("per nom") were against the proposed retarget (that is, they were arguments to "keep" the existing target, the album). Anyway, I'll take it to RM, but I still wanted to clarify. czar ♔ 16:06, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

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Several interface messages and labels were changed to be simpler, clearer, or shorter, based on feedback from translators and editors. The formatting of dialogs was changed, and more changes to the appearance will be coming soon, when VisualEditor implements the new MediaWiki theme from Design. (A preview of the theme is available on Labs for developers.) The team also made some improvements for users of the Monobook skin that improved the size of text in toolbars and fixed selections that overlapped menus.

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Hi Thryduulf, I appreciate your work at RfD and respect you as an administrator a great deal, but I have concerns about your close of Tchang Kaï Check. You've said that there's "a well-grounded reason" keep voters gave for keeping, but the only argument I see them having made is that it's a correct French transcription. If this is a well-grounded reason, surely the entirety of WP:FORRED is invalid. Perhaps consensus is changing regarding foreign-language redirects; perhaps those supportive of them have simply gotten louder. That discussion looked more like no consensus for me, so I'm not seriously expecting you to overturn to delete. But your closing statement is rather sweeping, and perhaps a bit radical in its implications. What do you think? --BDD (talk) 14:06, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

There was also reasons given why this specific French transcription is worthwhile on the English Wikipedia (including because people find it useful). I don't see how that can be generalised to all discussions citing FORRED, and in any discussion where it is brought up others are free to give reasons why they disagree that a given other-language transcription is not useful, etc. but just pointing to FORRED is not enough. FORRED is a guideline that says in the absence of a reason to keep a specific foreign language redirect they shouldn't be kept and that they should not be created indiscriminately, specific reasons given for keeping must still be specifically countered. Thryduulf (talk) 15:50, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't see the reasons you're referring to. That the French article wasn't very good? That a speaker of both French and English would use this as a search term? Both of those would seem to apply to any foreign-language redirect. --BDD (talk) 14:57, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

When someone says "this redirect of type X is useful because Y" it is not a convincing refutation to say "but most redirects of type X are not useful", which is what happened here. It was not asserted in the discussion, from either side, that the quality of a foreign language article would be relevant to other foreign language redirects so it played no part in the closing. Thryduulf (talk) 19:11, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Also, if someone had said in response that "this would mean most redirects of type Y are useful" that would also not have been a very convincing refutation as it does not explain why the harm caused by this redirect outweighs its usefulness. Thryduulf (talk) 19:16, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Thryduulf, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Campus Apartments, you voted delete per gene93k - however, gene93k only placed this discussion in certain categories and hasn't stated any opinion. Please clarify your comments. Thanks, Oiyarbepsy (talk) 22:14, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

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He Chris, just a courtesy note: I used one of your photos on my userpage and credited you in a byline. Feel free to change the byline if you want. Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:04, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

You actually used two, but the by-line is fine! Cheers for the note. Thryduulf (talk) 16:59, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I was browsing c:Category:Harry Mitchell at Wikimania 2014 and like the second one so much I decided I'd be greedy! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:05, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Could you please sign here? It might be helpful, as well, to describe why you think we need a 7-person committee to do what Worm That Turned said on the talk page is essentially being done by one person now. Risker (talk) 11:29, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

When you add tags to redirects that are currently at RfD, such as at Special:Diff/626621937, please make sure to add them above the "Don't add anything after this line." comment. Thanks, Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:17, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Why? What's the problem here? --Redrose64 (talk) 22:41, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

I have to agree with Redrose's question - what difference does it make? Having content inside the RfD tag is a new thing and makes closing RfDs has keep or retarget harder while having no obvious effects otherwise. Thryduulf (talk) 23:30, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

In that case, it wasn't a big deal, but it would be a big deal for template redirects. If you did that to one of them, anything that transcluded the redirect would get the Rcat template placed on it. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:38, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Such things on template redirects are already always within <noinclude> tags for exactly that reason, their being at RfD makes no difference to that. Thryduulf (talk) 00:30, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

No they're not. Jackmcbarn (talk) 03:21, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Eh? I don't do much with template redirects these days, but when I've seen ones with RCats that has been in a noinclude section (as it should be). If they aren't then just putting them in one is surely better than the added complexity of the new style RfD tag? Thryduulf (talk)

This is where the parser gets a little confusing. If a page starts with #REDIRECT [[Somewhere]], everything after that is unconditionally ignored in transclusions. If you put an RfD tag before it, though, the parser doesn't see the #REDIRECT as being a redirect anymore. Originally, this resulted in transclusions of the page totally breaking, unless the banner was deliberately misplaced below the #REDIRECT. I fixed this a few months ago by passing the page's original content as a parameter to a Lua module, which expands the redirect target as a template if it's being transcluded, or displays the RfD banner with the redirect line and Rcats, etc. if it's not. No noinclude is involved anywhere in this. Does that make sense? Jackmcbarn (talk) 12:58, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Sort of, but it seems unnecessarily complicated compared to noinclude/onlyinclude or the previous solution. Thryduulf (talk) 15:27, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

I can't think of any simpler way to make it work, but if you can think of one, I'd be happy to try it. Jackmcbarn (talk) 01:59, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

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An arbitration clarification request(Pseudoscience), either involving you, or in which you participated has been archived. The request resulted in a motion.

The original discussion can be found here For the arbitration Committee --S Philbrick(Talk) 14:52, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

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See this. Soxbot hasn't edited for 2 years,would seem safe to unprot. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 22:08, 30 October 2014 (UTC).

I agree, so I've unprotected that and File:Circumcised penis labelled.jpg which I protected at the same time for the same reason. Thanks for the heads-up, I was reminded of this when I was reading WP:LAME a couple of weeks back but I didn't think to check whether SoxBot was still active or not. Thryduulf (talk) 22:42, 30 October 2014 (UTC)