This is an archive of past discussions with User:Sarastro1. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Hi, welcome to Wikipedia. I noticed your edits to Wilfred Rhodes which have improved that article somewhat. We have a very active cricket project on the site and you are more than welcome to join it. We particularly need biographical and historical material to take the project forward. You can find details of the project at WP:CRIC and it has a discussion page at WT:CRIC where you can raise any cricket-related questions or any general questions about the site; someone will always try and help if you do. Best wishes. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 04:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-11-07T04:55:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BlackJack-2009-11-07T04:55:00.000Z-WP:CRIC","replies":["c-YellowMonkey-2009-12-09T23:56:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-11-07T04:55:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

And welcome from me too YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles finally at Featured topic candidates) 23:56, 9 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-09T23:56:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2009-12-09T23:56:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-11-07T04:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

As far as I can tell, the first county to regularly use 2 pace bowlers was Warks in 1911 (Foster and Field). It was a very hot summer. Nhants used Thompson and Wells during that period but also SG Smith(SLA). When Notts won championship in 1907, virtually all the bowling was done by Hallam and Wass, who were medium paced, Hallam slowish. On the other hand of course Buckenham and Kortright did not often open the Essex bowling nor Fielder and Bradley for Kent.(Blythe SLA also Woolley) Richardson and Lockwood did open the bowling for Surrey around 1895-1900, sometimes. ~~Dr A Tillmann~~ The change came with a harder ball and harder wickets in the late 20's. On the speed of Rhodes, there is a film of Verity bowling in 1938 Series. It is noticable how far Hammond stands back at slip.

Hi. To answer your first question, there is no need to worry about the length of the article. W G Grace, which is still unfinished, already has some 80kb and Don Bradman, which is nominally finished, has about 115kb! So, you can add a lot more yet as Wilfred Rhodes currently stands at 37kb. I'm not sure of a source to address the second point but you are correct that slow bowlers did regularly open the bowling. Leave that one with me and I'll see what I can find. All the best. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 06:46, 12 November 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-11-12T06:46:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BlackJack-2009-11-12T06:46:00.000Z-Wilfred_Rhodes","replies":["c-Aaroncrick-2009-12-08T21:10:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-11-12T06:46:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

Marvellous! Aaroncrick (talk) Review me! 21:10, 8 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-08T21:10:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2009-12-08T21:10:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-11-12T06:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello again. Well, it certainly isn't a start-class any more so I've raised the rating to B-class as we can do that within WP:CRIC. You could ask others at WT:CRIC to peer review it or you could take it to either the good article or featured article review processes. Again, it might be as well to ask at WT:CRIC about those as I know little about them, although you can find them at WP:GAN or WP:FAC respectively. I think you've done some excellent work here and this is now one of the best cricket biographies on WP. Very well done. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 04:42, 9 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-09T04:42:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BlackJack-2009-12-09T04:42:00.000Z-B-class_rating","replies":["c-Aaroncrick-2009-12-09T08:55:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-12-09T04:42:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

BlackJack said it all. Aaroncrick (talk) Review me! 08:55, 9 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-09T08:55:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2009-12-09T08:55:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-12-09T04:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-SGGH-2009-12-09T13:08:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2009-12-09T08:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

Likewise, it is an incredible change from the mess it once was. Only a couple of things spring to mind, which are fairly minor but would be picked up at Good Article Nomination or Featured Article Candidacy: make sure that all the citations come after punctuation, including after commas if they are mid-sentence cites. There are a couple I have spotted and I'll try to fix any more that I see. Try to find ISBN numbers for the boobs (I meant books but I couldn't take the typo out now, it's too funny! SGGH ^ping! 13:08, 9 December 2009 (UTC)) in the bibliography recent enough to have them. Add a WP:PERSONDATA thing. Also, check whether Wisden should be in italics at every mention (Jack might be able to verify that for you). Some more images might also be good. These are just random thoughts that come to mind. Great work. SGGH ^ping! 13:07, 9 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-09T13:08:00.000Z","author":"SGGH","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SGGH-2009-12-09T13:08:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2009-12-09T08:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I don't think I can be much help with content issues, but I've chipped in with the housework where I can. While I don't know of many if any who like housework, it is not a chore when you are reading another's article if you don't know about the subject matter, although for writing about one's topics, it can be very tedious. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles finally at Featured topic candidates) 23:53, 9 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-09T23:53:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2009-12-09T23:53:00.000Z-B-class_rating","replies":["c-Moondyne-2009-12-10T02:15:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2009-12-09T23:53:00.000Z"]}}-->

Great article Sarastro1. well done. –Moondyne 02:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-10T02:15:00.000Z","author":"Moondyne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Moondyne-2009-12-10T02:15:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2009-12-09T23:53:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Sarastro. This article certainly needs some work and I would definitely remove the Test centuries table if you think it isn't adding value. As you say, it's a one-off. I'll add Hammond to my watchlist and see if I can contribute anything myself. I'm doing a bit on the Hambledon captain Richard Nyren at the moment. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 23:23, 18 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-18T23:23:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BlackJack-2009-12-18T23:23:00.000Z-Wally_Hammond","replies":["c-SGGH-2009-12-19T10:16:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-12-18T23:23:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

It is most likely that I added the 'tone' tag (there are no tags on the article currently). I would advise that you make sure the article doesn't read like John Arlott's Book of Cricketers, which is a neat way of summing up the silly tone problems you find on some cricketers. Here is an example from Arlott's book, which illustrate how some cricket articles are (wrongly) written:

Here was that rare layer without conceit, without respect for averages, who never cared what the crowd through of him. Yet he was as human as the man in the next hospital bed; he was as bright as a sparrow; he never dogmatised; he knew cricket inside out and loved the game.

Or

There was never a more zestful, brave, exciting, or variously gifted cricketer than ________. He made Hampshire his home, its accent has grown on him, and he still lives in Winchester, quietly busy, recalling great men and the burning days of cricket.

Guess the cricketers! :) But in reality, there is no place for such waxy-work in a Wikipedia article. There won't be much left in Wally's article but keep your eye open. 'tis my Pet Hate. Good work, SGGH ^ping! 10:16, 19 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-19T10:16:00.000Z","author":"SGGH","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SGGH-2009-12-19T10:16:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-12-18T23:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-BlackJack-2009-12-19T10:22:00.000Z-SGGH-2009-12-19T10:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

Miller and Fry? ----Jack | ^{talk page} 10:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-19T10:22:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-BlackJack-2009-12-19T10:22:00.000Z-SGGH-2009-12-19T10:16:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

Hi Sarastro. Sorry, I had to look that up again to remember it. I think I meant to alter it myself at the time and the question was placed for me to do it later, but I forgot. The previous text read "He made his first century in a match against a parents from the school" and I wasn't sure if this means a parents' team. It would be best to check the context in the source (Howat) which I don't have. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 10:20, 19 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-19T10:20:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BlackJack-2009-12-19T10:20:00.000Z-Team_question","replies":[],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

Hello, Sarastro1. You have new messages at Mm40's talk page.
Message added 13:09, 20 December 2009 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-20T13:09:00.000Z","author":"Mm40","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mm40-2009-12-20T13:09:00.000Z-Talkback","replies":[]}}-->

Mm40 (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-20T13:10:00.000Z","author":"Mm40","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mm40-2009-12-20T13:10:00.000Z-Talkback","replies":[]}}-->

Excellent! Aaroncrick (talk) Review me! 21:36, 20 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-20T21:36:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2009-12-20T21:36:00.000Z-Already_reviewing_a_GA!","replies":["c-Aaroncrick-2009-12-20T22:08:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2009-12-20T21:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

Good luck with Rhodes when it does get reviewed :) Aaroncrick (talk) Review me! 22:08, 20 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-20T22:08:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2009-12-20T22:08:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2009-12-20T21:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hammond's looking good - us Aus cricket members might be getting some English competition! Aaroncrick (talk) Review me! 00:05, 21 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-21T00:05:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2009-12-21T00:05:00.000Z-Already_reviewing_a_GA!","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Sarastro. An article about one incident or one season would be fine. If you look at Category:Yorkshire County Cricket Club there are nearly 30 articles in that already and it would be a good home for the captaincy article. Good luck. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 08:32, 21 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-21T08:32:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BlackJack-2009-12-21T08:32:00.000Z-Yorkshire_captaincy","replies":["c-BlackJack-2009-12-22T05:57:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-12-21T08:32:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

Hello again. It is a good start and I think it has a lot of mileage. I've replied to Mr Tillmann who I've come across previously. I'll read the article in detail next time I'm on as this is just a quick visit. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 05:57, 22 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-22T05:57:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-BlackJack-2009-12-22T05:57:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-12-21T08:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-BlackJack-2009-12-26T12:47:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-12-22T05:57:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

In fact, if you come across Tillmann again, I suggest you simply revert his edits; or delete them completely if on a talk page. He simply doesn't follow site guidelines and only comes on here to "sound off" and pose as some kind of authority, so you would be in your rights to treat him as a vandal. A good example of his "authority" is his statement that Hill's book was not well received. By whom, one might ask. By coincidence, I came across the book the other day and I see it won The Cricket Society's Literary Award, so they must have received it well enough. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 12:47, 26 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-26T12:47:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-BlackJack-2009-12-26T12:47:00.000Z-BlackJack-2009-12-22T05:57:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

		The Barnstar of Diligence Award
		For doing your part in helping expand articles on Rhodes and Hammond. I hope to see many more articles like these in the future. Aaroncrick (talk) 06:17, 22 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-22T06:17:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2009-12-22T06:17:00.000Z-Barnstar","replies":["c-Aaroncrick-2009-12-24T04:07:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2009-12-22T06:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

Just don't burn yourself out :) Aaroncrick (talk) 04:07, 24 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-24T04:07:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2009-12-24T04:07:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2009-12-22T06:17:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I've never actually come across a biog of Verity but I'm sure Alan Hill will have done a good job. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 07:31, 27 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-27T07:31:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BlackJack-2009-12-27T07:31:00.000Z-Hedley_Verity","replies":[],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

The Hill book is well written but was criticised by some for a lack of basic research - ie; using secondary sources a la the book on Blythe (There were none in this case) re-Verity. Go to Pathe site(which I ref) and see Verity bowl. Your original article had to much POV despite a lot of info. The 1927 captaincy is a minefield as little of the orignal documents(held by YCCC) have been used. Mick Pope for one has seen them and I have seen some copies. Like so much cricket writing - this is held as if it is a government secret and leads to people being forced to speculate. When working in journalism I spoke to six Yorkshire players PJS, DLB, AGN, PC, GAC and DBC about the Close sacking. All had a different, even divergent view why he was sacked. The committee report actually details it. He was allegedly unfit and they were uncertain he would play much in 71 plus they felt he had no commitment to JPL. In the myriad of Yorkshire books, few have used this plain fact (except Mike Stevenson) Tillmann —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.242.53 (talk) 16:25, 28 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-28T16:25:00.000Z","author":"86.150.242.53","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-86.150.242.53-2009-12-28T16:25:00.000Z-Hedley_Verity","replies":["c-Sarastro1-2009-12-28T21:31:00.000Z-86.150.242.53-2009-12-28T16:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

This might well be the case, but as I understand it, the function of this website is to report on published secondary sources. Hill counts as a reputable source. Any POV in the article is reflected in the sources quoted. Whether there are deficiencies or not in the original research is not for me, or this type of article, to say. Any use of such original sources would count as original research, which is not allowed here. It may make an excellent book or article elsewhere. If you could recommend any secondary sources (and not just names of authors), it would be a big help. You seem remarkably well informed (and well connected) on a number of matters and you mention that you worked in journalism. May I ask in what capacity? I have left this message here as there seems to be no other way to contact you.--Sarastro1 (talk) 21:31, 28 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-28T21:31:00.000Z","author":"Sarastro1","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Sarastro1-2009-12-28T21:31:00.000Z-86.150.242.53-2009-12-28T16:25:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I was on ACS committee, worked on a handful of historical cricket titles, worked in Yorkshire/Worcestershire press(Boycott era). Researched for initial pre-1900 book of scores, History Don. Well known cricket historians are friends (PWT/KW for example) Do not write on cricket now - too busy!- Tillmann —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.110.13.42 (talk) 21:40, 29 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-29T21:40:00.000Z","author":"88.110.13.42","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-88.110.13.42-2009-12-29T21:40:00.000Z-Hedley_Verity","replies":[]}}-->

Thank you very much for your GA review of 1995 British Grand Prix. I have begun addressing the points you have raised, but I will be going on a brief holiday over the new year period and will not be able to finish until after I get back on January 2.

I've never reviewed an article for GA status before, and nor do I know anything about cricket, but I'll take a look at Wilfred Rhodes at some point by way of recompense (if no-one else gets there first!).--Midgrid(talk) 21:27, 28 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-28T21:27:00.000Z","author":"Midgrid","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Midgrid-2009-12-28T21:27:00.000Z-1995_British_Grand_Prix","replies":["c-Midgrid-2010-01-06T17:11:00.000Z-Midgrid-2009-12-28T21:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

I believe that I have addressed (or responded to) all of the points that you raised. Sorry for the delay, as I've been quite busy lately.--Midgrid(talk) 17:11, 6 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-06T17:11:00.000Z","author":"Midgrid","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Midgrid-2010-01-06T17:11:00.000Z-Midgrid-2009-12-28T21:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Midgrid-2010-01-06T21:15:00.000Z-Midgrid-2010-01-06T17:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you very much! :) Good luck with the Wilfred Rhodes GAN; looks like someone else got there first.--Midgrid(talk) 21:15, 6 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-06T21:15:00.000Z","author":"Midgrid","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Midgrid-2010-01-06T21:15:00.000Z-Midgrid-2010-01-06T17:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The issues are fixed and it's hopefully ready for passing. As nom, I'm letting you know about User:Wizardman/GA incentive, where since you reviewed my nomination quite quickly, I'll review a couple article of your choice if you'd like. Thanks for the review, btw. Wizardman _{Help review good articles} 04:12, 1 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-01T04:12:00.000Z","author":"Wizardman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Wizardman-2010-01-01T04:12:00.000Z-Dick_Padden","replies":[]}}-->

Excellent. Probably go for Peer Review first, unless we all chip in and give a non official review and copy edit. Aaroncrick (talk) 21:26, 14 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-14T21:26:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-01-14T21:26:00.000Z-Hammond","replies":["c-RossRSmith-2010-02-02T13:26:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-01-14T21:26:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hi. Given the research undertaken by ACSH members and others, I believe the "missing" catch would be published in the book First-Class Cricket: A Complete Record 1928. It is a series which began with the 1939 season and has now worked back towards the mid-1920s. Detailed research using original scorebooks and contemporary newspapers has updated much information about cricket matches in England and around the world. A message to the Cricket Archive people is likely to be met with detail of the page number to include in reference.

RossRSmith (talk) 13:26, 2 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-02T13:26:00.000Z","author":"RossRSmith","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-RossRSmith-2010-02-02T13:26:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-01-14T21:26:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Well, since you are interested in olden day stuff, these 1948 articles are perenially short of eyes YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 05:35, 15 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-15T05:35:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-01-15T05:35:00.000Z-Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates\/Second_Test,_1948_Ashes_series\/archive1","replies":["c-YellowMonkey-2010-01-17T07:47:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-01-15T05:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ah, could you get add the missing tidbits please? I'm afraid that Australian writers just cut and paste off Fingleton, who probably isn't aware of the English rooms as much, and English books aren't available here. One notorious Roland Perry makes a career of just copying old stuff and plundering YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 07:47, 17 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-17T07:47:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-01-17T07:47:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-01-15T05:35:00.000Z","replies":["c-YellowMonkey-2010-01-20T06:07:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-01-17T07:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've put in Yardley's stats. Couldn't find the day by day crowd YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 06:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-20T06:07:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-01-20T06:07:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-01-17T07:47:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi. Could I ask you to take a look at Sam Loxton. He played 6 Tests against England, 3 in 1948 and 3 in 1950-51 in case you might spot something YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 23:34, 1 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-01T23:34:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-02-01T23:34:00.000Z-Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates\/Second_Test,_1948_Ashes_series\/archive1","replies":[]}}-->

The pre 1824 list has absolutely no provenance and is actually so speculative as to be slightly ridiculous. You won't find it anywhere but on Jacks site. It suggests that it is possible to call certain ad hoc club sides counties and to derive a champion from therein. The post say 1800 does have some contemporaneous support from the press which the pre 1800 markedly doesn't, well hardly any. In fact some of the games don't exist in scorecard form(or we don't know if they were even played) so the pre-1800 list was judging 1)With Hindsight and 2)Based on no evidence in respect of results. Post 1826 one might be talking about 30 games and at least one contemporary opinion. Pre 1780 matches only took place in three/four counties(as far as we know)and these were certainly not County sides. There can be confusion in this as well because it is thought some teams were FROM SUSSEX or FROM KENT and included the FROM in their title.After about 1830 teams styled themselves as county sides - in some cases they were but remember it took most of a day to go N to S in Hampshire so these counties were actually specific areas of the county. Hambledon was(and is) isolated from any major centre by several miles. It is an hour and a half from London by car - the regions were ignorant of each other by and large. To make a pre 1800 match list is one thing(rating the games quite another) but to arrive at a pre-1800 list of so called Champions would require years of research to find any contemporay opinion in papers, letters and correspondence. Almost none exists pre-1750 and not much after till the development of newspapers on a local scale. The Post 1826 list is the result of several learned opinions spread over a great many years. To allow a highly speculative list by one person to appear in an encyclopedia as fact(which it quickly becomes) is like taking the scores of the matches played during WWII by the counties and making ones own table of results and called x, y or z champion. Fun yes but not authorative. I don't intend touching it again but it is twaddle. Sorry it really is and if you can find one of the main guides (ACS, WISDEN Cricketarchive, Cricinfo) then it WOULD be credible. I have much the same sources to hand as BJ, more in fact as I have some computor sites available through University. I could compile my own list. It would differ and be no less none-credible.BrownEdge (talk) 20:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-31T20:53:00.000Z","author":"BrownEdge","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BrownEdge-2010-01-31T20:53:00.000Z-Champion_County","replies":["c-BrownEdge-2010-02-02T11:54:00.000Z-BrownEdge-2010-01-31T20:53:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've only a few moments but in reply you need to understand that of the mammoth amount of information appended by Blackjack, a small percentage is plain wrong. It is of course at the margin where myths begin and one person writes something and another(take the Guardian!) repeats it because they are short of time and just look something up quickly) and so on. There is no grudge except in rectifying errors. If you can find corroboration taking BJ's list of pre 1826 County Champions as an example and some of his own assertions from stumpsite, then you will do well because non exist. If his work was well regarded it would have found a publisher. When I published BJ in an ACS journal(his list was pretty useful) I receive such criticism from statisticians that I packed in. If WP is an encyclopedia then it should be accurate. As it stands, and this is true of several areas notably Arab-Israeli conflict, a lot of good work is spoiled by self-ordained professors and well meaning people lacking a depth of knowledge. You cannot argue this out with a group of psuedonyms and therein lies the problem and why it is banned at Universities(Some extraordinary things have been written as fact) as a reference tool although it is a useful ready reference if salt is added. BrownEdge (talk) 11:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-02T11:54:00.000Z","author":"BrownEdge","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-BrownEdge-2010-02-02T11:54:00.000Z-BrownEdge-2010-01-31T20:53:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I'm happy for the merge to happen, I suspect you're right in that it's simply a case of nobody getting around to doing it! I had intended to get back to it, but as is so often the case, my attention was drawn elsewhere and I forgot all about it. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC).__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-07T11:20:00.000Z","author":"Lankiveil","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Lankiveil-2010-02-07T11:20:00.000Z-Wilf_Barber","replies":[]}}-->

Jardine served with SOE but he was not an agent. See MRD Foot(Pimlico 1999 edition). Chris Douglas perpetrates the error in the Cricketer obit of 1959.FirstComrade (talk) 22:20, 8 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-08T22:20:00.000Z","author":"FirstComrade","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FirstComrade-2010-02-08T22:20:00.000Z-Jardine","replies":["c-FirstComrade-2010-02-08T22:44:00.000Z-FirstComrade-2010-02-08T22:20:00.000Z"]}}-->

Jardine did not serve behind the lines according to the history of SOE. Express deliveries by Bill Bowes is about the only book on pre 1939 Yorkshire though Barber is featured in an article in the Cricketer but I don't have it to hand c.1935. On Hammond, when Foots(David) book came out one of the players who knew him took issue with his personality faults. Barnett was also regarded as difficult. He certainly made caustic comments when interviewed. Hutton (according to A Woodhouse) never passed above a sentence with him. Joe Hardstaff liked him. My Dad worked with JH.FirstComrade (talk) 22:44, 8 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-08T22:44:00.000Z","author":"FirstComrade","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-FirstComrade-2010-02-08T22:44:00.000Z-FirstComrade-2010-02-08T22:20:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, Sarastro. I think you'll be pleased to know that the FirstComrade/BrownEdge/ASMF troll has been banned via WP:ANI. Your replies to him were instrumental as you clearly identified him as HughGal. My interest in him was his Fieldgoalunit alias last year, under which he caused considerable disruption and annoyance. Hopefully he will finally get the message that nobody wants him here. We don't want him in the ACS either, despite his blatherings about it (he was sacked as journal editor and chucked his Wisdens out of his pram: yes, he really did). JJJ (not at home so not logged in). --86.160.125.25 (talk) 17:26, 12 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-12T17:26:00.000Z","author":"86.160.125.25","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-86.160.125.25-2010-02-12T17:26:00.000Z-Troll_banned","replies":[]}}-->

If you did what Brian said, then it'll be fine for FAC. The GA isn't going to notice anything about content, and the prose isn't obviously bumpy enough for them to bother. Quite a few articles with ridiculous English pass GA already, and everyone who would care about the content has already spoken up YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars photo poll) 03:01, 16 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-16T03:01:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-02-16T03:01:00.000Z-Hammond_2","replies":[]}}-->

Good luck. —Aaroncrick (talk) 23:01, 22 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-22T23:01:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-02-22T23:01:00.000Z-Hammond_2","replies":["c-Aaroncrick-2010-02-22T23:24:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-02-22T23:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well, Miller and Ponting are a lot bigger. —Aaroncrick (talk) 23:24, 22 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-22T23:24:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-02-22T23:24:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-02-22T23:01:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Stuff on my talk YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 03:04, 25 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-25T03:04:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-02-25T03:04:00.000Z-Hammond_2","replies":[]}}-->

Here's the excerpt. It doesn't say a lot, but I like the wording, and the contrast with Hendren:-

"Nothing indicates the importance attached [by the school] to cricket more clearly than the engagement in 1930 of the legendary Yorkshire all-rounder Wilfred Rhodes as the professional (Eton had recently acquired the services of the other great Kirkheaton left-arm bowler and right-hand batsman from cricket's Golden Age, George Hirst). Rhodes, an austere, dedicated northerner, came across to spoilt, gilded southern youths as taciturn, critical and curmudgeonly. He was soon replaced by another famous English cricketer, the Middlesex professional Patsy Hendren whose genial nature and acute social sense assured his success."

Source: Tyerman, Christopher (2000): A History of Harrow School, Oxford University Press, Oxford, ISBN 0-19-822796-5

Brianboulton (talk) 23:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-24T23:18:00.000Z","author":"Brianboulton","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Brianboulton-2010-02-24T23:18:00.000Z-Rhodes_at_Harrow","replies":[]}}-->

I noticed this exchange from Brianboulton's talk page, and send you, if they might be useful, three excerpts from the Lyttelton/Hart-Davis Letters

• It is disillusioning to one with my youthful loyalties to realise that the majestic MacLaren, with his 'superb crease-side manner', was an extremely stupid, prejudiced and pig-headed man, even in cricket matters. Plum always says he had the worst fault of a captain, viz pessimism about his team, expressed in their presence: 'Just look what they've given me—half of them creaking with old age, George Hirst fat as butter' etc etc. But let us remember that when Wainwright gave him a long-hop to leg to get his century off in a Gents and Players, he kicked it away and sternly ordered him to bowl his best. Lyttelton/Hart-Davis Letters, Volume 2, Letter of 9 May 1957
• I can remember about ten individual strokes that I saw made since 1897. …. Oddly enough one was a square cut by Rhodes, who later forbade the Harrow boys ever to cut (or 'coot') as it was unsafe. ('But, Wilfred, a cut's the greatest fun.' 'Cricket's not meant to be foon'—which ought to be in the Oxford Book of quotations….) Lyttelton/Hart-Davis Letters, Volume 3, Letter of 5 February 1958.
• I have written to Plum Warner that my nephew [C J Lyttelton, captain of Worcs 1936-39] said he was told by Rhodes that Trumper never said 'For God's sake Wilfred, give me a moment's peace' in the 1903 Test Match at Sydney, when V.T. made 185 and Rhodes bowled all afternoon on the plumbest of wickets; and I urged Plum to let us know the truth, which he must know. Lyttelton/Hart-Davis Letters, Volume 4, Letter of 22 October 1959

George Lyttelton wrote to The Times (letter published 21 October 1959):

• With regard to the famous legendary remark attributed to George Hirst, I think it should be recorded that Hirst, when at Eton, told me in answer to my direct question that he had no recollection whatever of saying to Rhodes: 'We'll get 'em in singles.'

This was followed up by a letter from L B Duckworth, published 26 October 1959, saying that Rhodes had written to him denying the story: Rhodes is quoted thus: "I don't remember Hirst saying anything to me when I joined him. That is all someone's imagination and the 'We'll get them in singles' is ridiculous. After all, if we could have got four 4's it would have done just the same and over much quicker'." May be of some use as background. On the other hand, may not. - Tim riley (talk) 10:50, 28 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-28T10:50:00.000Z","author":"Tim riley","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tim_riley-2010-02-28T10:50:00.000Z-Rhodes_at_Harrow","replies":[]}}-->

Just spotted thisd. Wuth regard to the first bit, as well as the comparison with Hendren there's also an interesting contrast with Hirst, who is supposed to have been very popular with everyone at Eton. I supposed that reinforces the idea that it was the dourness of Rhodes, rather than his being a northerner, that was the problem. JH (talk page) 22:03, 19 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-19T22:03:00.000Z","author":"Jhall1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jhall1-2010-03-19T22:03:00.000Z-Rhodes_at_Harrow","replies":[]}}-->

Still going for GA? Thanks for the votes YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 01:52, 5 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-05T01:52:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-05T01:52:00.000Z-Barber","replies":["c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-05T05:49:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-03-05T01:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

We could write a whole FA just on the Woodful/Warner incident and the culpabhility debate YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 05:49, 5 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-05T05:49:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-05T05:49:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-03-05T01:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, Sarastro1. You have new messages at Tomcat4680's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hello, Sarastro1. You have new messages at Tomcat4680's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hello, Sarastro1. You have new messages at Tomcat4680's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Thanks for your review, I've addressed all of your points (I think) in some way or another, and look forward to your responses. Harrias (talk) 22:11, 10 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-10T22:11:00.000Z","author":"Harrias","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Harrias-2010-03-10T22:11:00.000Z-Cameron_White_GAR","replies":["c-Harrias-2010-03-11T22:32:00.000Z-Harrias-2010-03-10T22:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

Added requested comments. Both good points, and things I really should expand upon, thanks for bringing them to my attention. Harrias (talk) 22:32, 11 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-11T22:32:00.000Z","author":"Harrias","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Harrias-2010-03-11T22:32:00.000Z-Harrias-2010-03-10T22:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Better off having too much info than not enough. However, the refs in the middle of sentences are incredibly annoying. —Aaroncrick (talk) 22:56, 11 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-11T22:56:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-03-11T22:56:00.000Z-Hammond_3","replies":["c-Aaroncrick-2010-03-11T23:34:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-03-11T22:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

Lol, Malleous is fairly blunt and I don't think he even likes cricket. Tony1 hasn't opposed so you much be doing something (a lot) right. —Aaroncrick (talk) 23:34, 11 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-11T23:34:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-03-11T23:34:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-03-11T22:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-15T00:31:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-03-11T23:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

Tony1 would usually be banging on about the "with noun verb+ings" but he didn't bother. He and Brian would usually have talked about using the words "England captain" twice in teh same sentence, but didn't for some reason. I shouldn't have waited for the litmus test then. I'll do some more. Also with averages, even if it is exactly 65.00 etc you should give the two decimal places instead of just 65, as it might seem like it was a rounding and not 65.00; it's my science data attitude poking out YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:31, 15 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-15T00:31:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-15T00:31:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-03-11T23:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

If/when it goes back to FAC, please ping me. --Dweller (talk) 13:37, 15 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-15T13:37:00.000Z","author":"Dweller","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dweller-2010-03-15T13:37:00.000Z-Hammond_3","replies":["c-Dweller-2010-03-15T22:27:00.000Z-Dweller-2010-03-15T13:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

I think there are restrictions around how quickly you can take it back to FAC. Certainly, there used to be when I was an FAC regular. --Dweller (talk) 22:27, 15 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-15T22:27:00.000Z","author":"Dweller","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dweller-2010-03-15T22:27:00.000Z-Dweller-2010-03-15T13:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-16T00:29:00.000Z-Dweller-2010-03-15T22:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

There's now an explicit 2-week suspension; you can put Wally up on GAN in the meantime YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:29, 16 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-16T00:29:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-16T00:29:00.000Z-Dweller-2010-03-15T22:27:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Just an easy thing to look out for is to mix up the synonyms a bit like scored/made/compiled so that there aren't the same one in close proximity. Those sorts of things. Who was the manager of his football team if it is known YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 05:39, 16 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-16T05:39:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-16T05:39:00.000Z-Hammond_3","replies":[]}}-->

Hmmm ... should be easy getting Wally to pass GAN :) —Aaroncrick (talk) 10:25, 17 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-17T10:25:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-03-17T10:25:00.000Z-Hammond_3","replies":[]}}-->

Good work on this article. :) I'm glad that you're making use of Gibson's book. Did you get a copy as a result of my reccommendation on the article's talk page, or did you already have it? (My own copy is the later, 1989, edition, but I think the only difference is an added chapter covering the captains between the two dates.) Yorkshire (as with Nottinghamshire) did have professional captains in their earliest days, but their side was supposed to be very ill-disciplined prior to the first amateur - none other than Hawke himself - taking over in 1883. He is supposed to have whipped them into shape (metaphorically). This may have contributed to the prejudice in the county against the idea of a professional captain. I've added only the briefest mention of all this to the article, as I felt that if I was to cover it in depth I would need to unearth a citation. JH (talk page) 21:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-19T21:54:00.000Z","author":"Jhall1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jhall1-2010-03-19T21:54:00.000Z-Yorkshire_captaincy_crisis_of_1927","replies":["c-Jhall1-2010-03-20T10:27:00.000Z-Jhall1-2010-03-19T21:54:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm glad that you've enjoyed the Gibson book. As well as being very entertasining, it practically amopunts to a history of English Test cricket. Infortunately his great story about how Hornby discovered Barlow doesn't appear to be true. :) JH (talk page) 10:27, 20 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-20T10:27:00.000Z","author":"Jhall1","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jhall1-2010-03-20T10:27:00.000Z-Jhall1-2010-03-19T21:54:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Yes, Surrey is "my" county. I'm afraid that I can't help with M.R. Jardine, but I might be able to dig out something on Jack Crawford. I'll have a look in my most likely books. JH (talk page) 10:17, 20 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-20T10:17:00.000Z","author":"Jhall1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jhall1-2010-03-20T10:17:00.000Z-Surrey_cricketers","replies":["c-Jhall1-2010-03-20T21:19:00.000Z-Jhall1-2010-03-20T10:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've made a few tweaks to Crawford's article, without as yet going beyond what's in his Wisden obituary. Unfortunately it looks rather as if a previous contributor to the article has lifted a lot of text verbatim from that obituary, which ought to be reworded to avoid copyright issues. (Incidentally Crawford's profile on Cricinfo contains his Wisden obituary. Having the 1964 Wisden I was able to check that my suspicion that it did was correct.) JH (talk page) 21:19, 20 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-20T21:19:00.000Z","author":"Jhall1","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jhall1-2010-03-20T21:19:00.000Z-Jhall1-2010-03-20T10:17:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi you might be interested in this chap's edits. Writes about Ashes series. Good contributor but always very flamboyant. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 05:15, 22 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-22T05:15:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-22T05:15:00.000Z-User:Philipjelley","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Sarastro. The one of Wilfred walking out at Park Avenue was photocopied from p.43 of David Frith's Golden Age of Cricket. The 1899 team photo seems to have been copied from another source and unfortunately I can't remember which, not can I see the photo in any of several books I've been looking at. Possibly, I copied it off the internet. Hope this helps. All the best. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 12:26, 28 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-28T12:26:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BlackJack-2010-03-28T12:26:00.000Z-Photos_of_Wilfred_Rhodes","replies":["c-BlackJack-2010-03-30T16:50:00.000Z-BlackJack-2010-03-28T12:26:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

It is in David Frith's book! It's on p.27 and I don't know how I could have missed it when I looked before. Hope this helps. Good luck with your review. ----Jack | ^{talk page} 16:50, 30 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-30T16:50:00.000Z","author":"BlackJack","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-BlackJack-2010-03-30T16:50:00.000Z-BlackJack-2010-03-28T12:26:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Jack"}}-->

Always welcome my dear sir YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:52, 29 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-29T00:52:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-29T00:52:00.000Z-Extra_tidbits","replies":["c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-30T05:00:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-03-29T00:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for the additions. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 05:00, 30 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-30T05:00:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-03-30T05:00:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-03-29T00:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Left you a review of this article, great stuff! Staxringold _talk^contribs 00:45, 2 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-02T00:45:00.000Z","author":"Staxringold","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Staxringold-2010-04-02T00:45:00.000Z-Wally_Hammond_2","replies":["c-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T09:27:00.000Z-Staxringold-2010-04-02T00:45:00.000Z","c-Staxringold-2010-04-03T00:02:00.000Z-Staxringold-2010-04-02T00:45:00.000Z"]}}-->

Congrats :) —Aaroncrick (talk) 09:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-02T09:27:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T09:27:00.000Z-Staxringold-2010-04-02T00:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• The image claims to be of Australian origin. Do you know of any Australian equivalent to the Library of Congress that might have images from back then? Staxringold _talk^contribs 00:02, 3 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-03T00:02:00.000Z","author":"Staxringold","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Staxringold-2010-04-03T00:02:00.000Z-Staxringold-2010-04-02T00:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Please don't mistake this as a personal attack, but I was a little disappointed with the article. Could you please give a self copy edit? Sorry for being a pain. Also, I'm actually not going to be on again until next weekend as I'm going to Queensland. *I can see your eyes rolling* :) Anyway, I hope to pass the article then. Have a happy Easter ;) —Aaroncrick (talk) 09:27, 2 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-02T09:27:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T09:27:00.000Z-Barber_2","replies":["c-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T11:00:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T09:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks Aaroncrick ^TALK 11:00, 2 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-02T11:00:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T11:00:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T09:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T20:58:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T11:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

Looks much better. Aaroncrick ^TALK 20:58, 2 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-02T20:58:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T20:58:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T11:00:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Congrats :) Aaroncrick ^TALK 22:40, 2 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-02T22:40:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T22:40:00.000Z-Barber_2","replies":["c-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T22:48:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T22:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yeah, flight doesn't leave for a couple of hours :) Aaroncrick ^TALK 22:48, 2 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-02T22:48:00.000Z","author":"Aaroncrick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T22:48:00.000Z-Aaroncrick-2010-04-02T22:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi there, I have checked through this article and you can find the review here. Have to say that I was very impressed by the overall standard, but just found a few parts that needed ironing out so I have put it on hold for seven days, although I trust the points will be rectified sooner than that. Cheers -- BigDom 22:12, 5 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-05T22:12:00.000Z","author":"BigDom","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BigDom-2010-04-05T22:12:00.000Z-Douglas_Jardine","replies":["c-BigDom-2010-04-06T21:59:00.000Z-BigDom-2010-04-05T22:12:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Big"}}-->

What I've done is changed all the HTML en-dashes to actual en-dashes in order to save a few bytes of space. I can assure you that I haven't changed any of them to hyphens so there wouldn't be a problem at FA. On another point, this is one of the most interesting articles I have ever read on Wikipedia, and it would have very few objections or comments at FAC, especially considering the improvements it has undergone even in the last couple of days with the GA review. Good luck if you do take it to FA, I'm definitely going to pass it as a GA now that all the comments have been addressed. By the way, hope you enjoyed my little cricketing pun in the review! Congrats, BigDom 21:59, 6 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-06T21:59:00.000Z","author":"BigDom","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-BigDom-2010-04-06T21:59:00.000Z-BigDom-2010-04-05T22:12:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Big"}}-->

Ever thought of resuscitating this dead FA? YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 07:19, 12 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-12T07:19:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-04-12T07:19:00.000Z-Brian_Close","replies":[]}}-->

Anything here missing much from the Tests v England? Up at FAC YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 02:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-19T02:34:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-04-19T02:34:00.000Z-Keith_Miller_in_the_1946-47_Australian_cricket_season","replies":["c-YellowMonkey-2010-04-30T08:17:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-04-19T02:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

Replied YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 08:17, 30 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-30T08:17:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-04-30T08:17:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-04-19T02:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I'm just going to a cricket practice. At my age!(50) I'll get back to you tomorrow but the single best souce is The Cricketer because of the little snippets.The 50's editions are a historians delight. The pre WWII one's are excellent but poorly index and usually you have to plough through. I'm going over to the cricket library at Trent Bridge in a week or so. I'll try and dig some stuff out. There are some fairly arcane books there, including a lot of the Cricketer, year books, all Wisdens. If you ring Peter Wynne Thomas, he's always happy to accomodate researchers. He's at Notts CCC.KestevenBullet (talk) 16:38, 27 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-27T16:38:00.000Z","author":"KestevenBullet","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KestevenBullet-2010-04-27T16:38:00.000Z-Thanks","replies":[]}}-->

I've been copyediting on, & have reached the end of the "Senior professional" section. In doing so I have knocked out a few of what I considered inessential passages, either because they didn't seem important or because they merely re-emphasised a point already made. Follow the edit history; if you have serious objections to any of my cuts by all means restore, but be sure the information is worth saving. We are down to a wordcount of 8,400 now, which is much more reasonable. I should be able to finish editing tomorrow. Brianboulton (talk) 19:08, 29 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-29T19:08:00.000Z","author":"Brianboulton","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Brianboulton-2010-04-29T19:08:00.000Z-Rhodes_FAC","replies":["c-YellowMonkey-2010-05-05T02:21:00.000Z-Brianboulton-2010-04-29T19:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

Cricket FACs always take donkeys years because of lack of turnout. Those without WikiProject support are just always mired there while those with 3 or so project supports who turn up have a good chance of a pass in 10 days on a regular basis YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 02:21, 5 May 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-05T02:21:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-05-05T02:21:00.000Z-Brianboulton-2010-04-29T19:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Well done, great work. Things always get easier after that. FA is a bit like diving or figureskating. There is a bit of a bias towards the established names from the judges, although probably not deliberate YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 01:12, 10 May 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-10T01:12:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-05-10T01:12:00.000Z-Rhodes_FAC","replies":["c-YellowMonkey-2010-05-11T00:52:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-05-10T01:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

You should user Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries. Put in the dates when Hammond or Rhodes broke their WRs for example. The date has to be mentioned in the article itself so just pop it in there. I've stuck Braddles' duck, tied Test, Essex 721 and a few others in there YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:52, 11 May 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-11T00:52:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-05-11T00:52:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-05-10T01:12:00.000Z","replies":["c-YellowMonkey-2010-05-11T00:52:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-05-11T00:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

eg Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/May 15 YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:52, 11 May 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-11T00:52:00.000Z","author":"YellowMonkey","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-YellowMonkey-2010-05-11T00:52:00.000Z-YellowMonkey-2010-05-11T00:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for your review, I've gone through and responded to most, if not all, of your points. Probably needs a bit more work from me yet, but I'd appreciate some more feedback with regards to a couple of my responses. Regards, Harrias ^talk 20:35, 14 May 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-14T20:35:00.000Z","author":"Harrias","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Harrias-2010-05-14T20:35:00.000Z-Jos_Buttler_GAN","replies":["c-Harrias-2010-05-14T20:49:00.000Z-Harrias-2010-05-14T20:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

I guess it helps if I click 'Save page'? *looks embarrassed!* I've found a little bit on his playing style etc, which I'm in the process of adding. Harrias ^talk 20:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-14T20:49:00.000Z","author":"Harrias","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Harrias-2010-05-14T20:49:00.000Z-Harrias-2010-05-14T20:35:00.000Z","replies":["c-Harrias-2010-05-15T09:53:00.000Z-Harrias-2010-05-14T20:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hopefully! It'll be interesting to see how much Kieswetter plays for England, and as a result how much cricket Buttler gets, because I think it's important he gets a fair bit at the moment to help him develop. Harrias ^talk 09:53, 15 May 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-15T09:53:00.000Z","author":"Harrias","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Harrias-2010-05-15T09:53:00.000Z-Harrias-2010-05-14T20:49:00.000Z","replies":["c-Harrias-2010-05-15T20:56:00.000Z-Harrias-2010-05-15T09:53:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yeah, him and Hildreth really got us out of a hole today. Got a few photos from the match, so will have to see if they're any good tomorrow. He got a standing ovation as he walked off, certainly a promising talent. Harrias ^talk 20:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-15T20:56:00.000Z","author":"Harrias","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Harrias-2010-05-15T20:56:00.000Z-Harrias-2010-05-15T09:53:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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