This is an archive of past discussions with User:Pondle. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Thank you for your excellent work in the Economy of Swansea and Economy of Wales. It's very interesting reading for me. (Sloman 15:05, 15 July 2006 (UTC))__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-15T15:05:00.000Z","author":"Sloman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sloman-2006-07-15T15:05:00.000Z-Swansea_Economy","replies":[]}}-->

No problem. BTW it was mainly down to the new Welsh Assembly Government economic development strategy, "Wales A Vibrant Economy" - it actually has some very good analysis in it (a change for the Assembly).Pondle 16:41, 15 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-15T16:41:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2006-07-15T16:41:00.000Z-Swansea_Economy","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, excellent work on the Economy of Swansea section. The section is looking quite large now in proportion to the article on the Swansea Unitary Authority region. Do you think it would be ok to split this section off to a new article called Economy of Swansea? and just to leave a summary with a link on the Swansea article to the more detailed article. (Avebury 11:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC))__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-02-03T11:38:00.000Z","author":"Avebury","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Avebury-2007-02-03T11:38:00.000Z-Swansea_Economy","replies":[]}}-->

You were right in removing the paragraph from finasteride that has been inserted so many times. I'm not sure why my edit led to its reintroduction; it may have to do with my being stalked by WP:TOJO, a rather prolific sockpuppeteer and vandal. The article is protected again now. JFW | T@lk 06:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-07-23T06:21:00.000Z","author":"Jfdwolff","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jfdwolff-2007-07-23T06:21:00.000Z-Finasteride","replies":[],"displayName":"JFW"}}-->

I'm glad you took out the section "Cardiff could also be included with Newport and other large towns in the region in a much larger metropolitan area with a population of around 1,400,000 (South-East Wales)"....it was really getting on my nerves...calling Newport part of Cardiff metropolitan area is insulting to Newport (and I live in Cardiff)...any way good work Seth Whales 09:42, 2 October 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-10-02T09:42:00.000Z","author":"Seth Whales","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Seth_Whales-2007-10-02T09:42:00.000Z-Cardiff","replies":[]}}-->

Rather than checking what edits I've been doing and undoing them (often for no reason), please could you make constructive edits on Wikipedia. Thank you Welshleprechaun (talk) 20:15, 23 January 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-01-23T20:15:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-01-23T20:15:00.000Z-Stalking","replies":[]}}-->

Specific changes I've made are explained in my contributions list and all are intended to be constructive. I was concerned by your use of inconsistent stats and misunderstanding of (admittedly confusing) administrative geography in the Swansea article, which prompted me to modify a number of other articles you've recently updated. No malice intended. I believe that my edits help to make the respective articles more accurate, informative and objective, and they comply with good practice re: citation of sources. If you have specific objections to particular text or sources we can discuss in the relevant articles.Pondle (talk) 22:20, 23 January 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-01-23T22:20:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2008-01-23T22:20:00.000Z-Stalking","replies":[]}}-->

Ah, I didn't mean it as a seperate legal entity, I edited it to clarify that it was located in the county, rather then the actual city but it ironically leads to ambiguation. Welshleprechaun (talk) 14:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-01-24T14:18:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-01-24T14:18:00.000Z-Swansea","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks. I do not believe that there is a hard-and-fast divide between the 'city' and the rest of the 'county' since local government reorganisation in 1996. The former Swansea district had city status and was styled "City of Swansea", but that entity was abolished in 1996. The ONS has defined an area of Swansea as "urban", but as with Cardiff and other cities, this urban area isn't co-terminous with the administrative geography and is only a statistical construct.Pondle (talk) 14:24, 24 January 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-01-24T14:24:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2008-01-24T14:24:00.000Z-Swansea","replies":[]}}-->

Since 2001, more recent and accurate official estimates have been given such as Cardiff Unitary Authority (2006) as 317,500. Do you know if Swansea has a more recent figure as well? Anyway, to keep things clear, I think we should only compare city propers rather than unitary authorities and particularly not urban areas because the Swansea Urban Area include Neath, Port Talbot etc which are not even in the Swansea unitary authority, the page which we are putting these comparisons on.Welshleprechaun (talk) 19:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-01-24T19:57:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-01-24T19:57:00.000Z-Swansea","replies":[]}}-->

Actually, yes we should compare unitary authorities. Sorry Welshleprechaun (talk) 19:59, 24 January 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-01-24T19:59:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-01-24T19:59:00.000Z-Swansea","replies":[]}}-->

I agree with you reinstating the 'Three day Blitz' I previously changed to dates. There seem to be plenty of citations to it, although none are referenced in the article. Canol (talk) 21:08, 11 May 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-05-11T21:08:00.000Z","author":"Canol","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Canol-2008-05-11T21:08:00.000Z-Swansea","replies":[]}}-->

How is it giving it undue weight? It's likely that Bay Point will be built and will be taller. You may not like that but that's how it is. Welshleprechaun (talk) 15:02, 2 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-02T15:02:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-03-02T15:02:00.000Z-Bay_Pointe","replies":[]}}-->

For the record, I don't care either way - but please note that the granting of planning permission does not necessarily imply a start of construction. A significant period often elapses between the two; sometimes developments with planning consent are not actually built! Pondle (talk) 15:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-02T15:04:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2008-03-02T15:04:00.000Z-Bay_Pointe","replies":[]}}-->

It seems that we have some disagreements on certain articles. Rather than letting this deteriate quality of Wikipedia, I suggest that when either of us makes an edit to which the other disagrees, we should discuss it on the talk page rather than revert it straight away and cause an edit war. If we then don't reach a compromise, we should then ask for adminstrator intervention. What do you say? Welshleprechaun (talk) 16:10, 2 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-02T16:10:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-03-02T16:10:00.000Z-Disagreements","replies":[]}}-->

Agreed.Pondle (talk) 16:53, 2 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-02T16:53:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2008-03-02T16:53:00.000Z-Disagreements","replies":[]}}-->

I disagree with your removal of a sentence in Cardiff. It can't really be called POV because it's true. There's no more important place in Wales when it comes to shopping, media, politics etc. Welshleprechaun (talk) 22:39, 12 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-12T22:39:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-03-12T22:39:00.000Z-Cardiff_2","replies":[]}}-->

My main problem was with the IP's bias - describing Cardiff as a "major UK financial centre", without substantiation, is unacceptable POV. Cardiff is already described as the capital of Wales and home of the National Assembly in the intro, so I don't see your problem re: the city's political role in Wales. Pondle (talk) 17:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-13T17:26:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2008-03-13T17:26:00.000Z-Cardiff_2","replies":[]}}-->

Thankfully this page and Wales have now been semi-protected for three months so that should put an end to this IP vandal business for a while. Bettia ^(talk) 09:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-18T09:39:00.000Z","author":"Bettia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bettia-2008-03-18T09:39:00.000Z-Cardiff_2","replies":[]}}-->

Look you may not like it but Cardiff is the primate city in Wales. There can be no arguement for any other city in Wales to challenge that position, just as in Northern Ireland. Welshleprechaun (talk) 23:05, 26 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-26T23:05:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-03-26T23:05:00.000Z-Primate_city","replies":[]}}-->

This seems to me to be an example of POV. You have not cited an external reference to support your contention that Cardiff qualifies as a primate city. See the discussion on the Cardiff talk page where I expand on this point.Pondle (talk) 23:06, 26 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-26T23:06:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2008-03-26T23:06:00.000Z-Primate_city","replies":[]}}-->

What exactly is your arguement against it being a primate city? Cardiff is:

• the financial, polticial and population centre of Wales
• almost twice the size of the next largest city - around 305,000 to Swansea's 169,000
• expressive of national capacity and feeling

...and just to clarify, we are talking about the primate city of Wales, not the UK, as per the list on primate city. It doesn't necessarily have to be already cited by an academic source as a primate city, just like other primate cities, a slong as they fufill the criteria, which Cardiff does. Welshleprechaun (talk) 23:12, 26 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-26T23:12:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-03-26T23:12:00.000Z-Primate_city","replies":[]}}-->

Also, if you want to remove Cardiff from the list of primate cities because of your argument that there's no academic citation, I suggest you abide by the guidelines of not giving undue weight and spend the night searching the internet for evidence of citations of other cities' status as primate city and remove every other city on that list which isn't cited as one. Welshleprechaun (talk) 23:15, 26 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-26T23:15:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-03-26T23:15:00.000Z-Primate_city","replies":[]}}-->

We've discussed previously how Cardiff isn't "at least twice the size" (Jefferson's criteria) of Swansea. As for it being "exceptionally expressive of national feeling" (Jefferson's criteria) - that's arguable. Cardiff was part of 'British Wales' in Dennis Balsom's famous 'Three Wales' model of identity in Wales, and a majority in the city voted against the establishment of the Assembly. Unless you can find a reputable source which supports your contention that Cardiff is a primate city, this is simply a matter of opinion.Pondle (talk) 23:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-26T23:21:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2008-03-26T23:21:00.000Z-Primate_city","replies":[]}}-->

Please stop waffling. You are missing the point that, and I quote from Primate city, a primate city is a financial, political and population centre...not rivaled in any of these aspects by any other city in that country. Also, it doesn't have to be twice the size. It is undoubtable that Cardiff fufils this criteria. A source is simply not needed, just as it isn't needed for the other cities on that page. See the page! Please keep your anti-Cardiff POV out of Wikipedia contributions. Welshleprechaun (talk) 23:33, 26 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-26T23:33:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-03-26T23:33:00.000Z-Primate_city","replies":[]}}-->

Thank you for requesting the 3rd opinion. I added primate city of Wales because we aren't talking about the UK, where it clearly is London. Welshleprechaun (talk) 23:35, 26 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-26T23:35:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-03-26T23:35:00.000Z-Primate_city","replies":[]}}-->

Also I ask that you don't revert the edits on Cardiff and Primate city. The last thing we need is an edit war and break of the 3RR. Welshleprechaun (talk) 23:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-26T23:36:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-03-26T23:36:00.000Z-Primate_city","replies":[]}}-->

I am not going to edit these pages until a consensus emerges. I respect your opinion that Cardiff is a primate city, but I disagree for the reasons I stated above and on the Cardiff talk page. I'd like to expand upon these for the benefit of the debate:

• 1. Size. Using consistent data, Cardiff is not at least twice the size of Swansea. If we compare Census 2001 stats for built-up areas: Swansea - 169,880 Cardiff - 292,150; Census 2001 stats for wider urban areas: Swansea - 270,506 Cardiff - 327,706;[1] Census 2001 stats for local authorities: Swansea - 223,301 Cardiff - 305,353.[2]
• 2. Political significance. No-one disputes the fact that Cardiff is home to the National Assembly of Wales and most of the Assembly Government senior civil servants, but remember that unlike some other capitals, the Welsh Assembly Government also has national administrative offices in other towns and cities (including Merthyr, Carmarthen, Newtown, Swansea, and soon Aberystwyth and Llandudno). Also, while Cardiff has the lion's share of Welsh national institutions, some are outside the city - the National Library of Wales is in Aberystwyth, the Wales National Pool in Swansea, the National Velodrome is in Newport, various bodies like the Urdd, different unions etc. have their HQs outside Cardiff.
• 3. Expression of national feeling. This is subjective, but I think that the sense of Welsh national identity in Cardiff is arguable, as witnessed by the 1999 devolution referendum result when a majority in Cardiff voted against devolution - see Denis Balsom's Three Wales model discussed [here http://www.swansea.ac.uk/history/research/Wales%20the%20Postnation.pdf]

BTW Please don't accuse me of anti-Cardiff POV, I feel that that is unjustified.Pondle (talk) 23:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-26T23:39:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2008-03-26T23:39:00.000Z-Primate_city","replies":[]}}-->

I'll be giving a third opinion over at Talk:Cardiff#Primate city?. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 04:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-27T04:01:00.000Z","author":"HelloAnnyong","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-HelloAnnyong-2008-03-27T04:01:00.000Z-Third_opinion","replies":[]}}-->

I didnt mean to take so long with this, but was distracted with editing elsewhere. What about:

... vibrant music scene and engaging sporting events?

or

... vibrant music scene and energetic sporting events

rather then "... vibrant music scene and dynamic sporting venues".

Drachenfyre (talk) 11:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-04-03T11:34:00.000Z","author":"Drachenfyre","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drachenfyre-2008-04-03T11:34:00.000Z-Wales_intro","replies":[]}}-->

"Vibrant" could be construed as POV unless external sources have described the Welsh music scene as such. "Energetic" doesn't seem to adequately describe, say, a rugby international. If I was forced to choose, and accept a potential POV, I would just say "vibrant music scene and sporting events." But I would prefer to talk about what makes music and sport in Wales distinctive from other places, rather than finding 'positive' adjectives. The question is, what is it? What are the unique indigenous traditions? Pondle (talk) 16:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-04-04T16:15:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2008-04-04T16:15:00.000Z-Wales_intro","replies":[]}}-->

I think we (the community) need to look again at the Wales intro... I'm concerned by the peacock terms that seem to be proliferating - we've got a "world-renowned" waterfront in there now - as well as a few unreferenced terms that could be construed as opinion ("vibrant") and others that aren't meaningful ("engaging").

The part about national identity is weak as well - "later influenced by other European historical events" - which ones? How did they influence Welsh national identity? I understand that this is supposed to be an intro, and not go into much detail, but surely we can do better than what's there at the moment.

I know these criticisms aren't very constructive, but I wanted to highlight the problems. I know we're supposed to be "bold", but as a courtesy to the regular editors of this popular section, I'm reluctant to take the initiative in making revisions until consensus emerges. Pondle (talk) 21:57, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello Pondle, I understand your concerns, again. If you would like, sure, cut-out all descriptive verbs. I wont stop you. I think the intro is tight and well organized, especially compared to other country pages, and especially to Scotland's intro. I feel it is appropriate the way it is, you do not. In terms of European historical events, if you wish to flood the intro paragraphs with every single event then do so (the link to Professor John Davies History of Wales is provided). This was the delima before, when editors felt compelled to write out the history of Wales within the opening paragraphs. I do not think it is necessary to be that verbose myself. I gave the intro a try, if you can do better, so be it.♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 23:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-04-10T23:05:00.000Z","author":"Drachenfyre","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drachenfyre-2008-04-10T23:05:00.000Z-Wales_intro","replies":["c-Drachenfyre-2008-04-10T23:30:00.000Z-Drachenfyre-2008-04-10T23:05:00.000Z","c-Drachenfyre-2008-04-11T10:30:00.000Z-Drachenfyre-2008-04-10T23:05:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u2666Drachenfyre\u2666"}}-->

You know, why not work on the body of the page, rather then the intro? Why focus so exclusively there, when we need more work on the body? I do not understand. There is far more work to be done in the body of the page then on the intro right now. It is in the body of the page, under history, that you sould explain what European historical events influenced Wales, not the intro paragraphs. The intro should highlight with the briefest of descriptions, using the verbs vibrant music scene and engaging sporting events, nor World reknowned waterfront (which was a compromise for someone else who wanted that in, thus preventing further reverts), is not attempting to introduce weasle words. Why not concentrate your efforts on the body?♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 23:30, 10 April 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-04-10T23:30:00.000Z","author":"Drachenfyre","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drachenfyre-2008-04-10T23:30:00.000Z-Drachenfyre-2008-04-10T23:05:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drachenfyre-2008-04-11T04:00:00.000Z-Drachenfyre-2008-04-10T23:30:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u2666Drachenfyre\u2666"}}-->

Look, I had to sleep on it. I didnt mean to be so sharp with my comments above. I am sorry. I do not want to lose you as an editor on Wales, nor do I wish to depart as an editor there.♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 04:00, 11 April 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-04-11T04:00:00.000Z","author":"Drachenfyre","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drachenfyre-2008-04-11T04:00:00.000Z-Drachenfyre-2008-04-10T23:30:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u2666Drachenfyre\u2666"}}-->

Grrrr! I removed the offensive 'weasle words', grrrr! LOL. It reads boringly. I am still uncertin about added more information on history though.♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 10:30, 11 April 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-04-11T10:30:00.000Z","author":"Drachenfyre","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drachenfyre-2008-04-11T10:30:00.000Z-Drachenfyre-2008-04-10T23:05:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u2666Drachenfyre\u2666"}}-->

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Hello Pondle! Your edits are great, and I know they are important. Per the borders, I have left this notice on various bords and on other contributers I know here to widen the debate some. As you can see, if the consensus for the Wales community is that they do not wish to have a distincitive border and title header, I shall withdrawl my advocacy for it. But, I believe there will be others who do think it is a positive change, and have invited them to contribute to the debate

Wales [Cymru] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help) Wales
Flag Coat of arms

Greetings Wales community! We need your Voice! We need mediation and impute from the wider community who regularily contribute to articals of Wales interest. At issue is the use of a distinctive border around the country info box, as well title bar. The issue seems to have become a crusade against Wales by certin editors, who have almost never contributed to and practically never visit (by their own admission) the Wales page. I do not tust the motives of the editor, whome seems to be stalking my edits and reverting them purposefully. This editor even dismisses the colors of Wales red and green saying that Wales does not have any official colors! (quote: "I imagine that this use of "national colours" (of which Wales has none by custom or tradition)...", Unfortunatly, I must deal with these cyber bullying tactics if I am to contribute here. However, I implore the Wales commmunity to weigh in on the topic of allowing info box borders and title headers. Please submit views on Template talk:Infobox Country and talk:Wales. If the wider Wales community decides not to support a border and title header color in the colors of Wales then I will withdrawal from this position. However, I and other editors do feel it makes the Wales page far more distinctive. Sincerly, David Llewellyn♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 02:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-04-14T02:34:00.000Z","author":"Drachenfyre","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drachenfyre-2008-04-14T02:34:00.000Z-Moderation_call","replies":[],"displayName":"\u2666Drachenfyre\u2666"}}-->

Can you please tell me why you have removed my latest entry - I have edited the entry - Gowerscapes - photography and guide to the Gower Peninsula. This is a true description of the site. What do you want me to put instead??????????????????????? Alunmj —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alunmj (talk • contribs) 13:29, 12 May 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-05-12T13:29:00.000Z","author":"Alunmj","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Alunmj-2008-05-12T13:29:00.000Z-Gowerscapes","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Pondle

Last week I put in a request for Cardiff to get a peer review, and it's now received some comments. I'm just about to make a start on them, but it's by no means a one-man job! There's probably one or two things on that list which will need a bit of brainstorming, so any help would be appreciated!

Cheers, Bettia ^(talk) 14:37, 19 May 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-05-19T14:37:00.000Z","author":"Bettia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bettia-2008-05-19T14:37:00.000Z-Cardiff_peer_review","replies":[]}}-->

Please read this comment and Talk:Economy of Swansea, there is some confusion regarding the 2003 economic numbers for Swansea. Thanks. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 20:36, 19 June 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-06-19T20:36:00.000Z","author":"Davidwr","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Davidwr-2008-06-19T20:36:00.000Z-Economy_of_Swansea_in_2003","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for fixing that so tactfully: I had no intention to embed any UK==England bias. These agencies' scopes and responsibilities seem to be moving targets, but of course please mention NCETW/ELWa if you can fit it/them into the article. I suspect there's sufficient subject matter to justify an Apprenticeship in the British Isles article (e.g. comparing the guild structures) but that would need expert historians with all the sources at their fingertips. - Pointillist (talk) 23:07, 25 June 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-06-25T23:07:00.000Z","author":"Pointillist","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pointillist-2008-06-25T23:07:00.000Z-Apprenticeship:_\"in_England,_the_Learning_and_Skills_Council\"","replies":[]}}-->

Good addition on Welsh Church Act, should have remembered that. --Snowded TALK 05:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-08-27T05:49:00.000Z","author":"Snowded","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Snowded-2008-08-27T05:49:00.000Z-Wales","replies":[]}}-->

Hope you don't mind me asking you if you would kindly have a look at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Bettia. I am not sure if what I am doing is ethical, but what the hell, I can only be permanently blocked once. Seth Whales (talk) 22:13, 11 September 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-09-11T22:13:00.000Z","author":"Seth Whales","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Seth_Whales-2008-09-11T22:13:00.000Z-Trying_to_drum_up_support_for_Bettia","replies":[]}}-->

I am erasing the information on the Swansea Herald, because it does not exist in Swansea anymore. Yes it was a local newspaper, but has been cancelled by the county council. If you really want to include the Herald, then please make sure you place it in the past tense - "The Swansea Herald Was A Free local Newspaper...." Jonny7003 (talk) 18:14, 2 November 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-11-02T18:14:00.000Z","author":"Jonny7003","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jonny7003-2008-11-02T18:14:00.000Z-Swansea_2","replies":["c-Shakey123-2008-11-02T23:46:00.000Z-Jonny7003-2008-11-02T18:14:00.000Z"]}}-->

No problem. Just found a reference that I will put on.[3] I hope the other guy will accept this too. There are some very stubborn characters on Wikipedia. (Shakey123 (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2008 (UTC))__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-11-02T23:46:00.000Z","author":"Shakey123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Shakey123-2008-11-02T23:46:00.000Z-Jonny7003-2008-11-02T18:14:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

OK, let's put this freak issue behind us, can we ? Yes, i admit i was wrong, but i have been told by Mr. Jones and obviously he has not been in touch with his boss and collegues about the situation. My family haven't received a copy of this as they used to, but as Mr. Jones said, it should not have been advertised in the city in the first place. Things have changed, along with order appliances aswell as market statistics. So, can we put this commotion behind us and forget about it please ? I was wrong and wrongly convinced about the "Herald Non - Existence" matter by Mr. Jones. People get things wrong and it was me who got the wrong end of the stick. Thanks for reading this and i apologize for the inconveniance. Please reply. (By the way i am not stubborn - if you agree with that statement up there) Thank you. Jonny7003 (talk) 16:06, 3 November 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-11-03T16:06:00.000Z","author":"Jonny7003","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jonny7003-2008-11-03T16:06:00.000Z-Swansea_3","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for the link to the help edit page. I have deleted the dispute about the Herald, symbolising that it never happened. Once again, thank you. Jonny7003 (talk) 19:46, 3 November 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-11-03T19:46:00.000Z","author":"Jonny7003","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jonny7003-2008-11-03T19:46:00.000Z-Swansea_3","replies":[]}}-->

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Right, rather than discussing it all over the place, let's discuss it here. Please can you outline exactly what your problem is and why you have a problem with West Cardiff but not with the larger and largely unsourced West London? Neither are offical terms and I never said they were, but that doesn't mean they have no usage and don't exist. Welshleprechaun (talk) 00:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-12-11T00:07:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-12-11T00:07:00.000Z-Cardiff_West,_East...etc","replies":[]}}-->

No, West London is just as unofficial as West Cardiff. If you have a problem with the verifiability of Cardiff West then you should have a problem with the West London one. If it's only the Cardiff West one, then your problems are based on your own negative opinion of Cardiff and your repeated uncivil attempts to shadow me and undermine me and my edits. Welshleprechaun (talk) 00:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-12-11T00:28:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-12-11T00:28:00.000Z-Cardiff_West,_East...etc","replies":[]}}-->

Then don't give me a reason to have a go at you. I don't buy your story. Stop shadowing me and concentrate on making Wikipedia a better place rather than starting contradictory and hypocrtical disputes. Welshleprechaun (talk) 00:52, 11 December 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-12-11T00:52:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-12-11T00:52:00.000Z-Cardiff_West,_East...etc","replies":[]}}-->

I shall if you continue but we'd both rather it not come to that. Welshleprechaun (talk) 01:04, 11 December 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-12-11T01:04:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-12-11T01:04:00.000Z-Cardiff_West,_East...etc","replies":[]}}-->

Well moving them under the boundaries section of the constituency articles creates a problem as Eastern Cardiff is divided between Cardiff North and South, and there's also the Cardiff Central constituency as well. Also the Cardiff West, East etc. usage isn't limited to road signs as we've discussed so the as indicated on road signs is unnecessary. Welshleprechaun (talk) 23:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-12-11T23:35:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2008-12-11T23:35:00.000Z-Cardiff_West,_East...etc","replies":[]}}-->

Many thanks for alerting me. Michellecrisp (talk) 00:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-12-11T00:46:00.000Z","author":"Michellecrisp","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Michellecrisp-2008-12-11T00:46:00.000Z-Thanks","replies":[]}}-->

Saying Swansea is a regional centre for South Wales is a matter of opinion. Also, that source is Swansea Council which would obviously be biased towards the county. That is the council's opinion. Welshleprechaun (talk) 22:47, 11 January 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-01-11T22:47:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2009-01-11T22:47:00.000Z-Economy","replies":[]}}-->

Pondle, could you give the page numbers of the two references for the updates to the Rhondda page. The Elizabeth Andrews article has her born in Hirwaun, while the Encyclopedia of Wales, says she was born to a Rhondda miner, and not actually born in the Rhondda. I'm not normally so fussy, but I'm sure you've seen the article is going through a good article review at present at I'm trying to make it water-tight. Cheers FruitMonkey (talk) 20:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-02-27T20:04:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2009-02-27T20:04:00.000Z-Role_of_Women_in_the_Rhondda","replies":["c-FruitMonkey-2009-02-27T21:06:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2009-02-27T20:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

Cheers, have put the page in. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:06, 27 February 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-02-27T21:06:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2009-02-27T21:06:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2009-02-27T20:04:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, yes that was a mistake. I just intended to change the WP:Cities rating. I gave Cardiff top given that Edinburgh's was the same, and Cardiff and Edinburgh are more national capitals than those of a region or state given the somewhat unique status of the constituent countries of the UK. I changed Swansea's and Newport's given that the cities' populations are below < 200,000. We are looking at a world definition of a city as this is a global WP. In global eyes, Oxwich Bay certainly doesn't make part of the city. Also, it is quite rare to see Newport and Swansea in international news. We can't say that some settlements will never feature in international news, obviously if there was a terrorist attack or a nuclear explosion in a village with a poplation of 10 (although I do realise high unlikely this is), that would probably be featured in the news. Welshleprechaun (talk) 11:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-03-07T11:47:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2009-03-07T11:47:00.000Z-WP:Cities","replies":["c-Welshleprechaun-2009-03-08T18:42:00.000Z-Welshleprechaun-2009-03-07T11:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

CNN is not the only international news channel. Spain's TVE features non-sport articles related to Cardiff [4][5], as does France's TF1 [6][7] and Germany's ARD [8][9]. And like I said, globally rural county areas are not seen as part of a city. Welshleprechaun (talk) 18:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-03-08T18:42:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2009-03-08T18:42:00.000Z-Welshleprechaun-2009-03-07T11:47:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello Pondle, I just wanted to ask you if you could help resolve a dispute between me and another user who thinks that Party in the Park was not an event in Swansea by 96.4 FM The Wave. I am pretty sure that it was, yet this user, constantly keeps reverting the edits. I have put a section on the talk page and asked him why he does these edits, but haven't had a reply. After the The Herald of Wales dispute, I understand that you hold a good sense of knowledge in Swansea and hope that you could shed light upon this issue. Thanks very much. Jonny7003 (talk) 17:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-04-19T17:16:00.000Z","author":"Jonny7003","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jonny7003-2009-04-19T17:16:00.000Z-96.4_FM_The_Wave_taking_Party_in_the_Park","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Pondle

You raise an interesting question with your recent edit to TrawsCambria. Whilst it is easily verified that the X94 does in fact run through to Chester (most of them do, anyway), TrawsCambria evidently doesn't consider that section to be part of its network. So whichever description of the route is used, is potentially misleading.

I've attempted to resolve this concisely by leaving your version of route description as-is, but adding an extra sentence about the Chester end, with both sources referenced. I've also put back in the other bits of that paragraph, since I don't think there was anything controversial about those. Hope you agree with this.

Best wishes, Quackdave (talk) 17:47, 21 April 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-04-21T17:47:00.000Z","author":"Quackdave","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Quackdave-2009-04-21T17:47:00.000Z-X94","replies":[]}}-->

A consensus is not something that you decide by yourself. If you look at the talk page, there is no consensus or agreement to have that in the introduction let alone other editors that supported it. In fact Snowded agreed with me. This is simply detail that deserves to be in the governance section. An introduction a meant to be a basic summary. Welshleprechaun (talk) 22:34, 21 April 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-04-21T22:34:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2009-04-21T22:34:00.000Z-Cardiff_3","replies":[]}}-->

I'm not disputing the wording. We did agree on that. I'm saying that the fact that the WAG has offices outside of Cardiff is not intro-worthy material, that's why I moved it to the sub-section. I know its an all-Wales organisation. The fact is that most WAG offices are in Cardiff as well as the Senedd. It is the capital after all. Welshleprechaun (talk) 22:46, 21 April 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-04-21T22:46:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2009-04-21T22:46:00.000Z-Cardiff_3","replies":[]}}-->

Okay, that sounds fine. Maybe we'll put which offices are in Cardiff in the article at some point, but for now I'm going to bed, so I bid you good night. Welshleprechaun (talk) 23:17, 21 April 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-04-21T23:17:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2009-04-21T23:17:00.000Z-Cardiff_3","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Pondle. Thanks (a bunch....) for bringing this to my attention--I'll do what I can to try and help. --RFBailey (talk) 03:03, 10 May 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-05-10T03:03:00.000Z","author":"RFBailey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-RFBailey-2009-05-10T03:03:00.000Z-Swansea_Metro","replies":[]}}-->

Of course the manufacturer will call them landmarks. This is for marketing purposes. My edit was much more neutral and as usual you're just trying to promote Swansea in any way you can. Unlike major cities like London, they are not landmarks to anyone from outside Swansea. Welshleprechaun (talk) 22:18, 1 June 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-06-01T22:18:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2009-06-01T22:18:00.000Z-Swansea_4","replies":[]}}-->

i dont really mind the theatre box being on the page. my only reason for removing it was that i could not get the image of the grand to appear on the page inside the box. sorry if ive caused an inconvience to you Swanseajack4life (talk) 16:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-07-01T16:18:00.000Z","author":"Swanseajack4life","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Swanseajack4life-2009-07-01T16:18:00.000Z-swansea_grand_theatre","replies":[]}}-->

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Thanks, Welshleprechaun (talk) 12:49, 13 July 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-07-13T12:49:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2009-07-13T12:49:00.000Z-West_Wales","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Pondle, just to let you know, I've placed a message on the Wikipedia:Welsh Wikipedians' notice board asking for comment on the template image. Lets hope there's some response. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 13:13, 19 July 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-07-19T13:13:00.000Z","author":"Daicaregos","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Daicaregos-2009-07-19T13:13:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Wales","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Pondle. Sorry about removing Kevin Allen from the notable people. Thought, as it was unlinked, that it was another of those "let's see if I can get myself included on Wikipedia" attempts! Skinsmoke (talk) 02:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-07-21T02:14:00.000Z","author":"Skinsmoke","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skinsmoke-2009-07-21T02:14:00.000Z-Swansea_5","replies":[]}}-->

I've added it to my watchlist and will get involved. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:13, 28 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-28T23:13:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2009-08-28T23:13:00.000Z-South_Wales_Valleys","replies":[]}}-->

Hi and thanks for your message. I agree that perhaps the issue could be discussed more clearly to gain an agreement on which coat of arms image to use for the Welsh template. I was also looking at the English and Northern Irish templates as well if you want to consider their best image use. I will be back on tomorrow night, so should be able to add comments then. Kind Regards Majestica (talk) 13:38, 6 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-06T13:38:00.000Z","author":"Majestica","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Majestica-2009-09-06T13:38:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Wales_2","replies":[]}}-->

Hey, thanks for the Barnstar for my maps! It's nice to be appreciated :-) XrysD (talk) 14:00, 28 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-28T14:00:00.000Z","author":"XrysD","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-XrysD-2009-09-28T14:00:00.000Z-XrysD_Barnstar","replies":[]}}-->

A great surprise, and, again, much appreciated. Thanks! Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:57, 17 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-17T10:57:00.000Z","author":"Ghmyrtle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ghmyrtle-2009-10-17T10:57:00.000Z-.._and_me!","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, Pondle. You have new messages at Bettia's talk page.
Message added 13:57, 22 October 2009 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-22T13:57:00.000Z","author":"Bettia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bettia-2009-10-22T13:57:00.000Z-Talkback","replies":[]}}-->

Bettia (talk) 13:57, 22 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-22T13:57:00.000Z","author":"Bettia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bettia-2009-10-22T13:57:00.000Z-Talkback-1","replies":[]}}-->

You asked me to comment on the article Bay Pointe. I first noticed that its title ought to be moved to something like Bay Pointe, Cardiff to disambiguate between it and other possible articles about like-named developments. After reading the article, I sensed that there was too little basis for its presence at Wikipedia, that it was not notable enough. In the article, the local people weren't asked whether they wanted or didn't want the development, and there was no sense of how unfortunate its cancellation was to the community, or how happy were any people who did not wish it built. There was no note of architectural awards that were won by the design, and no story of subsequent developments which were influenced by it. Binksternet (talk) 15:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-25T15:52:00.000Z","author":"Binksternet","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Binksternet-2009-10-25T15:52:00.000Z-Bay_Pointe_2","replies":[]}}-->

I find it a bit irritating, personally, to be labelled as an "Oppenheimer supporter" when I'm not, and all I've done is to revert someone who was acting clearly outside all WP guidelines by deleting referenced info and valid links, and who uses offensive language. It's disappointing that other editors who I have high regard for have chosen to support him, but there you go. Although I read Oppenheimer and found his arguments interesting, I'm well aware of the fact that there are counter-arguments, and I think it's perfectly likely that the scholarly consensus would modify some of his conclusions. But as you say, the published counter-arguments seem to be much more measured than those of some editors here. In my view, the answer is to present Oppenheimer's views, present the alternative views (including direct criticisms of Oppenheimer where referenced), and let the reader decide. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:46, 14 November 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-11-14T20:46:00.000Z","author":"Ghmyrtle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ghmyrtle-2009-11-14T20:46:00.000Z-Oppenheimer","replies":["c-Ghmyrtle-2009-11-18T21:50:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2009-11-14T20:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've already drawn attention to it here. We shall see. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:50, 18 November 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-11-18T21:50:00.000Z","author":"Ghmyrtle","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ghmyrtle-2009-11-18T21:50:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2009-11-14T20:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi. I got your post on my talkpage. I am aware of the article you mention, and I can see it has problems. I am not sure if I have time to work on it given the difficulty of work currently on R1a. Outside opinions on that page might well free up my time: many of the discussions getting in the way are really only about formatting and wording now. I have actually been stopped from fixing a much more important article (not in genetics) which is in a far worse state than it should be.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 07:29, 21 November 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-11-21T07:29:00.000Z","author":"Andrew Lancaster","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Andrew_Lancaster-2009-11-21T07:29:00.000Z-Genetic_History_of_the_British_Isles","replies":[]}}-->

I think those two have been at it for years on various articles. Rise above it....! Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:43, 26 November 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-11-26T09:43:00.000Z","author":"Ghmyrtle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ghmyrtle-2009-11-26T09:43:00.000Z-Ebbw_Valley_Line","replies":[]}}-->

The first UK Politics newsletter is currently available at WP:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom/Newsletter. All participants of the project have been subscribed to receive copies of the newsletter. You can unsubscribe simply by removing your name from the Subscription list. Regards. Road Wizard (talk) 19:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-04T19:57:00.000Z","author":"Road Wizard","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Road_Wizard-2009-12-04T19:57:00.000Z-1st_Wikiproject_UK_Politics_Newsletter","replies":[]}}-->

		The Original Barnstar
		For your consistent and valued work to all things Welsh. Thanks for all your good work. FruitMonkey (talk) 00:03, 6 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-06T00:03:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2009-12-06T00:03:00.000Z-Just_a_little_thank_you.","replies":[]}}-->

Sorry for giving the unavoidable impression I was including (or even specifically referring) to you in my BNP patrol remarks. Snafu - certainly not aimed at you. Regards Sarah777 (talk) 19:41, 28 December 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-28T19:41:00.000Z","author":"Sarah777","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sarah777-2009-12-28T19:41:00.000Z-Apology","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, I read your note on my talk page. I'd be happy to do a Glamorgan Map for you from my Wales map. As it will be based on an existing map I've done, I should be able to do it for you fairly quickly if you don't want any major changes. So please let me know exactly what you would like and I'll create it for you. I assume you want to replace the existing map?. XrysD (talk) 18:22, 10 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-10T18:22:00.000Z","author":"XrysD","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-XrysD-2010-01-10T18:22:00.000Z-Glamorgan_Map","replies":["c-XrysD-2010-01-11T12:18:00.000Z-XrysD-2010-01-10T18:22:00.000Z","c-XrysD-2010-01-11T20:34:00.000Z-XrysD-2010-01-10T18:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

OK, I've created something, I'll upload it to Wiki Commons this evening and put the link here. You can then place it where you want in the article. I only do administrative maps so sorry I can't help you with the relief map. XrysD (talk) 12:18, 11 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-11T12:18:00.000Z","author":"XrysD","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-XrysD-2010-01-11T12:18:00.000Z-XrysD-2010-01-10T18:22:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Here is the map :-) Glamorgan Map XrysD (talk) 20:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-11T20:34:00.000Z","author":"XrysD","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-XrysD-2010-01-11T20:34:00.000Z-XrysD-2010-01-10T18:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-XrysD-2010-01-14T16:57:00.000Z-XrysD-2010-01-11T20:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm glad you like the map and thanks for the barnstar! XrysD (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-14T16:57:00.000Z","author":"XrysD","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-XrysD-2010-01-14T16:57:00.000Z-XrysD-2010-01-11T20:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for the work and copyedits on the Glamorgan article. I'm no expert on the subject, but I was wondering what you thought of the time line splits. The Acts of Union was a fairly obvious cut off point for one era, but I then thought 1750 was a rough approximation of when industrialisation began to emerge in the area. There are signs in the 1740s but only a few early expolits. 1914 was then a final date as to the beginning of the end, as after the war the coal and iron markets began to collapse. Lots of work needed for the industrial period, there's a need to cover the Tin, Copper, Iron and Coal industry in quite some depth. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC) ...and a Happy New Year.__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-12-31T20:16:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2009-12-31T20:16:00.000Z-Glamorgan","replies":["c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-02T10:11:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2009-12-31T20:16:00.000Z","c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-03T23:23:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2009-12-31T20:16:00.000Z","c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-04T08:37:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2009-12-31T20:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, I agree with your thoughts regarding the later dates, the Great Depression did for the industries, but 1914 is too early. Happy for you to choose a date. FruitMonkey (talk) 10:11, 2 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-02T10:11:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-02T10:11:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2009-12-31T20:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

For transport, I want to add the tram roads attached to the canal, then the railways. Next is the expansion of the ports, the roads and M4, and finally the airports. Or am I missing anything? FruitMonkey (talk) 23:23, 3 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-03T23:23:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-03T23:23:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2009-12-31T20:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

...and the viaducts and bridges. The Old Bridge at Pontypridd springs to mind and the Cefn Coed Viaduct in Merthyr. Actually I can't believe there isn't an article for the Cefn Coed Viaduct. May have to start that one. FruitMonkey (talk) 08:37, 4 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-04T08:37:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-04T08:37:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2009-12-31T20:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-07T23:48:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-01-04T08:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've done a fair bit of study on the collapse of the Welsh language within the Rhondda, and the very small proportion of English who moved into the area were not the reason. Please see the Rhondda article for a more indepth study, as only about 10% of the population by 1911 were English. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:48, 7 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-07T23:48:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-07T23:48:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-01-04T08:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-08T00:16:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-01-07T23:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

I completely agree, language must be covered, as some very important Welsh speakers came from the area, and it would be good to show the cultural heritage of the county which has suffered from a view of being almost anti Welsh-language. FruitMonkey (talk) 00:16, 8 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-08T00:16:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-08T00:16:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-01-07T23:48:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for your message on my talk page. I think you'd better count me out of any significant involvement on this - I have too many commitments both elsewhere on WP and in the real world at the moment, and I'm not really committed to this whole GA/FA process anyway. Good luck, and I may be able to chip in over time on particular matters. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:24, 5 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-05T12:24:00.000Z","author":"Ghmyrtle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ghmyrtle-2010-01-05T12:24:00.000Z-Glamorgan","replies":[]}}-->

Had a crack at some early history: see here. I need to finish off the Bronze Age and tackle the Iron Age, then we should be good to go. It may be a few more days before I can get to it (real life stuff). I can add what there is to the article now, if you like, then finish it after. Please let me know (+ any changes, suggestions etc). Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 15:43, 9 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-09T15:43:00.000Z","author":"Daicaregos","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Daicaregos-2010-01-09T15:43:00.000Z-Glamorgan","replies":["c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-10T13:28:00.000Z-Daicaregos-2010-01-09T15:43:00.000Z"]}}-->

The article is really coming together, of course we still need to tackle certain areas; 1920-1974, religion, language and leisure & entertainment. But it is looking healthy. Dai's work on the pre-Roman period is really good. I've seen you've added the 'see also' which I found amusing in some aspects, as I believe the work we have but into transport in Glamorgan surpasses the transport in Wales in its depth. FruitMonkey (talk) 13:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-10T13:28:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-10T13:28:00.000Z-Daicaregos-2010-01-09T15:43:00.000Z","replies":["c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-11T00:02:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-01-10T13:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

Nice opening to buildings of note before 1920, you seem to be following the path I was aiming at, which is good that we are on the same wavelength. I also thought we should cover Cathays Park, Cardiff University, John Prichard, etc. We should also make sure that every part of Glamorgan is covered in this article. Myself, I'm valleys, Merthyr and Cardiff-centric, I will miss Gower, Caerphilly and Vale issues if I'm not aimed that way. Cheers FruitMonkey (talk) 00:02, 11 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-11T00:02:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-11T00:02:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-01-10T13:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-31T23:25:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-01-11T00:02:00.000Z"]}}-->

We've both slacked off on Glamorgan, but it's not forgotten. I've found some interesting info on the area being a hotbed of Royalist support against Cromwell. Must get that in. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:25, 31 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-31T23:25:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-31T23:25:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-01-11T00:02:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, Pondle. You have new messages at Kudpung's talk page.
Message added 21:24, 1 February 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-01T21:24:00.000Z","author":"Kudpung","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kudpung-2010-02-01T21:24:00.000Z-Talkback_2","replies":[]}}-->

Kudpung (talk) 21:24, 1 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-01T21:24:00.000Z","author":"Kudpung","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kudpung-2010-02-01T21:24:00.000Z-Talkback_2-1","replies":[]}}-->

I've been told to stop commenting on the GA talk page, so I have to work through individual user pages. It fractures the collaboration a bit. Please note that I did not add those BBC refs for the etymology. All I did was check them and clean up the ref syntax. The BBC references provided the information that was reported in the article. However, the additional information that I provided in the talk page, thet couild have been used, wioth references - to modify the BBS's slightly imperfect explanations, was removed by another contributor, along with all my other suggestions.--Kudpung (talk) 04:55, 22 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-22T04:55:00.000Z","author":"Kudpung","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kudpung-2010-01-22T04:55:00.000Z-Milford_Haven","replies":["c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-31T23:18:00.000Z-Kudpung-2010-01-22T04:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

Pondle. Any luck on those Milford Haven, 'what constitutes the town', slant you were looking into? No great push, but if it has dried up on yout side I'll make my own efforts to try and research it. Cheers, FruitMonkey (talk) 23:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-01-31T23:18:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-01-31T23:18:00.000Z-Kudpung-2010-01-22T04:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kudpung-2010-02-01T04:48:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-01-31T23:18:00.000Z"]}}-->

Check out: Civil parishes in England - it may well fall within the Wikipedia definition. If that doesn't work, see how: Malvern, Worcestershire is described.--Kudpung (talk) 04:48, 1 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-01T04:48:00.000Z","author":"Kudpung","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Kudpung-2010-02-01T04:48:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-01-31T23:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kudpung-2010-02-08T03:04:00.000Z-Kudpung-2010-02-01T04:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

It's been over a week now since any work was done on this article towards the GA award it was nominated for. I've done all I can for it for you and am now withdrawing from the project. I was not looking into the 'what constitutes the town' slant, I merely made some suggestions for others to carry out, as I am aware that any major improvements I make to this article are not received in good faith. Theoretically there is a time limit for getting articles up to snuff once an official review has begun, and I have reminded the reviewer accordingly.--Kudpung (talk) 03:04, 8 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-08T03:04:00.000Z","author":"Kudpung","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Kudpung-2010-02-08T03:04:00.000Z-Kudpung-2010-02-01T04:48:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Ham, it's been a long time since we discussed this, but there seemed to be a general consensus for a change of title. Unless anyone objects I'm going to make a bold move to Geography and identity in Wales and start making some radical changes along the lines we talked about many months ago.--Pondle (talk) 10:33, 21 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-21T10:33:00.000Z","author":"Pondle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pondle-2010-02-21T10:33:00.000Z-North-South_divide_(Wales)","replies":["c-Ham-2010-02-21T17:34:00.000Z-Pondle-2010-02-21T10:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

The move sounds good, so be bold. Ham 17:34, 21 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-21T17:34:00.000Z","author":"Ham","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ham-2010-02-21T17:34:00.000Z-Pondle-2010-02-21T10:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, I saw your message about St. Asaph. You are right, I mistakenly had it as part of Denbighshire. Influenced by the current location no doubt. I have modified the admin map and historic counties map of Wales. Thanks for letting me know! XrysD (talk) 21:54, 22 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-22T21:54:00.000Z","author":"XrysD","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-XrysD-2010-02-22T21:54:00.000Z-St._Asaph","replies":[]}}-->

Sorry for the delay, but it does need moving as there are differences all over Wales and North/South is one of a perceived 'divides'. The article is short sighted, full of opinion and original research and is offensive in its sweeping belief that Welshness and its culture can be measured (i.e. Wrexham not being as cultured as the south or North West Wales being more culturally Welsh than the North East. It needs to be hacked to pieces as it is written from one person's own view of Wales and is unreferenced. FruitMonkey (talk) 09:20, 27 February 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-02-27T09:20:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-02-27T09:20:00.000Z-North-South_divide_(Wales)_2","replies":[]}}-->

It appears to me that I am the third editor to object to the type of change you are proposing - I don't know where you get 'only objector' from. Your compromise position is totally unacceptable since you have changed the word to 'part', thus totally ignoring what the source says. I used to edit some time ago and gave up then because I found myself engaged in endless edit wars with people trying to push political agendas. Today I tend to log on infrequently and have resisted taking part again until now - now that I have started I find myself starting to edit again!!! Maybe I will create an account again - I've forgotten my old pass word - but I don't want to be spending time arguing round in circles. There again, maybe I should.... 86.158.123.19 (talk) 19:08, 29 March 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-03-29T19:08:00.000Z","author":"86.158.123.19","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-86.158.123.19-2010-03-29T19:08:00.000Z-History_of_Northern_Ireland","replies":[]}}-->

Just a note to say that, should you require another opinion on a matter, it is far better to seek a third opinion rather than ask editors with whom you are familiar and whose opinion you may already know. This way the opinion given can be neutral and unbiased. Alternatively, here is a list of editors who are willing to provide assistance on matters. Welshleprechaun 13:29, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Hello there. Sorry to bother you, but you are (titularly at least) a member of WP:WikiProject Economics, as defined by this category. If you don't know me, I'm a Wikipedia administrator, but an unqualified economist. I enjoy writing about economics, but I'm not very good at it, which is why I would like to support in any way I can the strong body of economists here on Wikipedia. I'm only bothering you because you are probably one of them. Together, I'd like us to establish the future direction of WikiProject Economics, but first, we need to know who we've got to help.

Whatever your area of expertise or level of qualification, if you're interested in helping with the WikiProject (even if only as part of a larger commitment to this wonderful online encyclopedia of ours), would you mind adding your signature to this page? It only takes a second. Thank you.

Message delivered on behalf of User:Jarry1250 by LivingBot.

Firstly, thank you for signing the census, and an apology if you are one of those editors who dislike posts such as this one for messaging you again in this way. I've now got myself organised and you can opt-out of any future communication at WP:WikiProject Economics/Newsletter. Just remove your name and you won't be bothered again.

Secondly, and most importantly, I would like to invite your comments on the census talk page about the project as a whole. I've given my own personal opinion on a range of topics, but my babbling is essentially worthless without your thoughts - I can't believe for one moment that everyone agrees with me in the slightest! :)

All your comments are welcomed. Thanks, - Jarry1250 ^{[Humorous? Discuss.]} 17:57, 21 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-21T17:57:00.000Z","author":"Jarry1250","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jarry1250-2010-04-21T17:57:00.000Z-WikiProject_Economics_census","replies":[]}}-->

Positively Economics The Economics WikiProject Newsletter Issue I (May 2010)
Use the show/hide button to display or hide this newsletter. From the (self-appointed) editor Hello to all the economists who signed up on the census (covered in more detail below) and whom I have boldly signed up for this, the first in hopefully a long line of WikiProject Economics newsletters. The aim is simple: to distribute the project's news and developments in order that every member gets the opportunity to contribute to their fullest. It mirrors the ideals of any WikiProject: to support and assist. In creating this, on a whim, I have picked a name and stolen the layout of the Military History WikiProject's newsletter. If you have any comments or suggestions, feel free to leave them on the main newsletter talk page. The non-talk version of that page is also the place to unsubscribe yourself from the newsletter, which, for the moment, I anticipate will be monthly. Enjoy! - Jarry1250 [Humorous? Discuss.] 11:59, 25 April 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-04-25T11:59:00.000Z","author":"Jarry1250","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jarry1250-2010-04-25T11:59:00.000Z-WikiProject_Economics_Newsletter_(Issue_I)","replies":[]}}--> Articles of note New featured articles: Economy of the Han Dynasty New featured lists: None New featured topics: None New good articles: Price elasticity of demand Production-possibility frontier Monetary Policy Committee Confederate war finance Redlinks to be squashed Skysmith has posted an updated list of missing economics topics. Most will need redirecting or new articles written to blueify them, so, if you can lend a hand with the effort, please do. There are some from virtually all areas of economics and hence to suit all tastes. Project news Census completed A big thank you to everyone who signed the census, an attempt to renew the project's membership list. Jarry1250 explained its purpose: "once we know how many active participants we have... we can make sure no interested parties get left out of discussions; ...to get everyone included. Not just to make them feel involved, but also to actively try to make them more involved [in the supportive atmosphere of the WikiProject]". Around forty editors, with a good range of specialisms and interests, have currently signed to show their activity, and it is still open for more. Project-wide discussions commence: A series of discussions have been commenced on the census talkpage about what, if anything, should be done to strengthen the Project. All comments are welcomed on a range of topics: the economic style guide, weight guidelines, notability and the creation of this newsletter. Other discussions, on categorisation, tagging and compiling an accurate list of unreferenced BLPs, are currently active. Your comments are invited in the following other ongoing project discussions: The normative economics of central banking. What article might this fall under? Does one exist already? Does it need a separate article? Inflation. Thoughts invited on the inflation article and how best to word the lead. 2010 European sovereign debt crisis - comments requested.
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Positively Economics The Economics WikiProject Newsletter Issue II (June 2010)
Use the show/hide button to display or hide this newsletter. From the editor Sticking to my promise of sending these out monthly, it's time for the June edition of Positively Economics, covering the events of May, which has passed relatively quietly for the project. Nevertheless, Wikipedia is a wiki, and things can change quickly and often without much notice. All contributions can be, and often are, important, regardless of how trivial they may seem. I, for example, have been working on our new list of unsourced BLPs, having added a significant number of economists to the project earlier in the month. But more on that in the newsletter itself. - Jarry1250 [Humorous? Discuss.] 14:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-27T14:28:00.000Z","author":"Jarry1250","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jarry1250-2010-05-27T14:28:00.000Z-WikiProject_Economics_Newsletter_(Issue_II)","replies":[]}}--> Articles of note Note: this week's "new" FAs, and so forth, are ones that previously weren't included in the project but now are. New featured articles: Akhtar Hameed Khan New featured lists: None New featured topics: None New good articles: Abram Lincoln Harris George Lee (journalist) Stephen Harper Yulia Tymoshenko Redlinks to be squashed Skysmith has posted an updated list of missing economics topics. Most will need redirecting or new articles written to blueify them, so, if you can lend a hand with the effort, please do. There are some from virtually all areas of economics and hence to suit all tastes. Project news Unassessed articles: A whole swath of articles have been added to the WikiProject recently, mainly on notable economists. They are yet to be assessed on their talk pages; this also provides a good opportunity to check and improve some of our least monitored articles. Unsourced BLPs: Before the articles about economists were added, the project had very few unsourced biographies of living people; now there are a little over a hundred. If we can clear them, however, then it is unlikely that there will be many more. Again, they represent some of our least cared-for articles, and often present good targets for cleaning up. Your comments are invited in the following other ongoing project discussions and requests for help: Too big to fail Slowflation Jobless recovery Small Business Lending Index
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Positively Economics The Economics WikiProject Newsletter Issue III (July 2010)
Use the show/hide button to display or hide this newsletter. From the editor Sticking to my promise of sending these out monthly, it's time for the July edition of Positively Economics, covering the events of June. It's been another constructive month for the project. Wikipedia remains, as ever, a very popular source of information about basic economic theory, as well as for biography and more specialised topics, and we shouldn't forget that contributions to these core articles remains our greatest strength. Onwards and upwards, as they say, for another month. - Jarry1250 [Humorous? Discuss.] 14:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-05-27T14:28:00.000Z","author":"Jarry1250","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jarry1250-2010-05-27T14:28:00.000Z-WikiProject_Economics_Newsletter_(Issue_III)","replies":[]}}--> Articles of note New featured articles: None New featured lists: None New featured topics: None New good articles: Brander–Spencer model Redlinks to be squashed Skysmith has posted an updated list of missing economics topics. Most will need redirecting or new articles written to blueify them, so, if you can lend a hand with the effort, please do. There are some from virtually all areas of economics and hence to suit all tastes. Project news Unassessed articles: A whole swath of articles have been added to the WikiProject recently, mainly on notable economists. They are yet to be assessed on their talk pages; this also provides a good opportunity to check and improve some of our least monitored articles. Unsourced BLPs: Before the articles about economists were added, the project had very few unsourced biographies of living people; now there are a little over a hundred. If we can clear them, however, then it is unlikely that there will be many more. Again, they represent some of our least cared-for articles, and often present good targets for cleaning up. Your comments are invited in the following other ongoing project discussions and requests for help: Featherbedding Herbert Hoover Intelligence-related citations
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Please do not make edits according to BRD unless you intend to observe this yourself.

I have proposed a different edit on List of tallest buildings in the United Kingdom which retains original information as well as including what I suggested. Welshleprechaun 14:48, 20 July 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-20T14:48:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2010-07-20T14:48:00.000Z-WP:BRD","replies":[]}}-->

I've got some time off after this week, so I'll renew efforts on the article. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:15, 12 July 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-12T23:15:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-07-12T23:15:00.000Z-Glamorgan_2","replies":["c-FruitMonkey-2010-07-25T22:53:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-07-12T23:15:00.000Z"]}}-->

Where do you think we should focus next? I'll give the article some attention this week. FruitMonkey (talk) 22:53, 25 July 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-25T22:53:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-07-25T22:53:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-07-12T23:15:00.000Z","replies":["c-FruitMonkey-2010-07-26T19:53:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-07-25T22:53:00.000Z","c-FruitMonkey-2010-07-27T17:26:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-07-25T22:53:00.000Z"]}}-->

I would like to see all the places mentioned on the places of interest moved into the main article. Therefore Castle Coch should be in Buildings of Note. I think there should be a section on Sport (Glamorgan CCC, Cardiff FC, Swansea RFC, etc) and one on Tourism (Barry Island, Mumbles, St Fagans, etc). Buildings of Note between 1920 and 1974 is tricky. We have major industrial parks, there is the National Stadium in Cardiff, leisure centres, St David's Shopping centre(?), comprehensive schools, polytechnics. Do you have any other buildings of the period in mind? FruitMonkey (talk) 19:53, 26 July 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-26T19:53:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-07-26T19:53:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-07-25T22:53:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hope it wasn't too heavy handed but I think we mentioned the big hitters. I had my book open on the Guildhall when I noticed your update. I'm not sure if you agree on entering information on the worst of architecture, but the 1960s and 1970s were notable for some real terrible work and I thought it was worth a mention. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:26, 27 July 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-27T17:26:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-07-27T17:26:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-07-25T22:53:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, Pondle. I notice you have started to add the notes as agreed. I would like to ask if we could see the list without the non sovereign countries in italics (not bold). From my perspective it appears a little hard to read. If it doesn't show enough difference between the non-bold and bold then fair enough, it can change back to being italicized. Just a thought. Jack 1314 (talk) 22:12, 29 July 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-29T22:12:00.000Z","author":"Jack 1314","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jack_1314-2010-07-29T22:12:00.000Z-List_of_national_capitals","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for the quick reply pondle. I may ask at the page tomorrow and see what others think. It's not a massive deal but I'd like to know if others find it a little hard to read as I do. Maybe I'm too tired and my eyes are a little bleary tonight. :) Jack 1314 (talk) 22:20, 29 July 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-29T22:20:00.000Z","author":"Jack 1314","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jack_1314-2010-07-29T22:20:00.000Z-List_of_national_capitals","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, Pondle. You have new messages at Cordless Larry's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Could be an idea, maybe we need the likes of David Underdown to scan it from a military perspective. He always seems to find great Gazette information on WWI and WWII figures. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:54, 23 August 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-08-23T18:54:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-08-23T18:54:00.000Z-David_Watts_Morgan","replies":[]}}-->

Positively Economics The Economics WikiProject Newsletter Issue IV (September 2010)
Use the show/hide button to display or hide this newsletter. From the editor After a brief intermission over the Northern hemisphere summer season and the Southern hemisphere's mid-winter, Positively Economics is back. In recent weeks it has been my privilege to work on countering systemic bias with a couple of articles on the economic history of Uganda. Projects like these help, little by little, to open up new areas on knowledge to Western audiences. Indeed, with English in the ascendancy when it comes to second languages, many other audiences too. Both of the new creations made the front page via the Did you know? section for newly-created or significantly expanded articles. I would encourage other editors, particularly those who like badges, to try to get more economics articles onto the front page through this and other sections. Those with a particularly competitive bent might also wish to consider signing up for the 2011 Wikicup (great for focussing the mind). - Jarry1250 [Humorous? Discuss.] 18:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-09-01T18:55:00.000Z","author":"Jarry1250","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jarry1250-2010-09-01T18:55:00.000Z-WikiProject_Economics_Newsletter_(Issue_IV)","replies":[]}}--> New bot User:LivingBot has just been approved on Wikimedia Commons to compile and upload SVG graphs based on monthly time series of, for example, UK interest rates (illustrated). It will then revisit these on a monthly basis to update them with the latest information. If you would like to bot to create and update a graph for you, get in touch with its operator. Articles of note New featured articles: None New featured lists: None New featured topics: None New good articles: Jevons paradox Redlinks to be squashed Skysmith has posted an updated list of missing economics topics. Most will need redirecting or new articles written to blueify them, so, if you can lend a hand with the effort, please do. There are some from virtually all areas of economics and hence to suit all tastes. Project news Unassessed articles: A whole swath of articles have been added to the WikiProject recently, mainly on notable economists. They are yet to be assessed on their talk pages; this also provides a good opportunity to check and improve some of our least monitored articles. Unsourced BLPs: Before the articles about economists were added, the project had very few unsourced biographies of living people; now there are a little over a hundred. If we can clear them, however, then it is unlikely that there will be many more. Again, they represent some of our least cared-for articles, and often present good targets for cleaning up. Your comments are invited in the following other ongoing project discussions and requests for help: Vanderford-Riley well-being schedule New Economic Indicator for Infoboxes Beth Hayes
To start/stop receiving this newsletter, please add/remove your name from the list here. Thank you. This newletter was delivered to you by User:Jarry1250 at around 19:25, 1 September 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-09-01T19:25:00.000Z","author":"Jarry1250","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jarry1250-2010-09-01T19:25:00.000Z-WikiProject_Economics_Newsletter_(Issue_IV)","replies":[],"displayName":"User:Jarry1250"}}-->

I have put the Wales article forward for GA status. It just needs tweaking, and maybe a heavy-handed swipe from outside to get it in place. I am writing to those who are constant contributors and defenders of Wales and Welsh articles, to not scream at me for doing this, but to help get the article through. If we fail, we fail, there is nothing wrong with that; but Wales should be a Good Article at least and if it takes good intentioned amateurs to reach that then so be it. FruitMonkey (talk) 01:30, 30 August 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-08-30T01:30:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-08-30T01:30:00.000Z-Wales_2","replies":["c-Ghmyrtle-2010-09-05T19:18:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-08-30T01:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

Re: Welsh names - I probably do agree with you, Pondle, but on this occasion I was extremely irritated not only by BW's persistent provocations, but also by Pfainuk's deliberate exaggeration of my comments. After a day or so off in the real world, I will now try to keep a cool(er) head in future! Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:18, 5 September 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-09-05T19:18:00.000Z","author":"Ghmyrtle","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ghmyrtle-2010-09-05T19:18:00.000Z-FruitMonkey-2010-08-30T01:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-FruitMonkey-2010-09-11T20:06:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-09-05T19:18:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for the recent change. I can't believe that statement sat there for so long. Don't know how I missed it. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:06, 11 September 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-09-11T20:06:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-09-11T20:06:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-09-05T19:18:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Pondle. The whole point of Wikipedia is that we don't get upset by other people's edits. If you wish to correct or improve work I have added is absolutely acceptable and welcomed. Just go for it, and I'll just get stuck in with you. FruitMonkey (talk) 22:36, 17 September 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-09-17T22:36:00.000Z","author":"FruitMonkey","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FruitMonkey-2010-09-17T22:36:00.000Z-History_of_Wales","replies":[]}}-->

I noticed that a while ago you tried to change the station names for the template but gave up because you didn't understand how those maps work. I have read [10] and will change the names for you if you want. WVRMAD•Talk •Guestbook 16:31, 15 October 2010 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-10-15T16:31:00.000Z","author":"WVRMad","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-WVRMad-2010-10-15T16:31:00.000Z-South_Wales_Railway_station_names","replies":[]}}-->

Wondered what you make of this: apparently edited by Welshgovernment. I tidied up a bit, assuming the username was genuine, but I'm not sure WGs changes are actually much of an improvement on the original (though some is). What do you think? Daicaregos (talk) 12:09, 1 July 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-07-01T12:09:00.000Z","author":"Daicaregos","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Daicaregos-2011-07-01T12:09:00.000Z-Welsh_Government","replies":[]}}-->

Hi there. There is a debate running at Talk:Newport in which you might have an interest. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:07, 14 May 2012 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-05-14T19:07:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2012-05-14T19:07:00.000Z-Distance_of_Newport_from_London","replies":[]}}-->

A bit of a blast from the past from the Milford Haven GA nommination, you were wondering about some source to give Thornton's status as being not part of Milford Haven. I just started the Tiers Cross article which has a good reference for that. Happy editing Agathoclea (talk) 18:15, 9 July 2012 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-09T18:15:00.000Z","author":"Agathoclea","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Agathoclea-2012-07-09T18:15:00.000Z-Thornton","replies":[]}}-->

If you remember, or even check the history of the page, you will see that it has always been the population of the city itself, not the county, in the lead on the Swansea article, and quite rightly so too. The lead should sum up its subject for those having a quick glance and most readers searching for a population figure of Swansea will most likely be after the population of the city itself. You'll probably disgaree but I am trying to look at this objectively. Most people are not after council stats, but want to gauge the size of city itself.

Both figures are available on the sidebar anyway, so let's please avoid this misrepresentation of the city's population. Welshleprechaun 17:14, 27 July 2012 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-27T17:14:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2012-07-27T17:14:00.000Z-Swansea_6","replies":["c-Welshleprechaun-2012-07-28T09:21:00.000Z-Welshleprechaun-2012-07-27T17:14:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm rather dissappointed in that comment, Pondle. You should know better than to have 'digs' at other editors. Regardless, well yes, you would disagree with my edits because I disagree with yours, but I will continue to counter attempts by other editors to introduce material that misrepresents or gives undue weight to articles about settlements. As you can see, the Swansea article is particularly notorious for this (but of course this happens elsewhere). So, your edits could be equally described as provocative, but we will leave it at that and get back to the matter at hand.

Yes, you are quite right about city status, but like I said, the vast majority of people see Swansea as, well, Swansea, that is the urban core. Not the Gower, not Pontardawe, not Clydach. That's why we have urban core figures. This population figures will be the one that most are searching for. I am by no means suggesting we remove the autority population figure, as that is naturally important for statistical purposes. So, in order to resolve this situation, I suggest we include both the urban core and authority populations in the lead. Welshleprechaun 09:21, 28 July 2012 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-28T09:21:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2012-07-28T09:21:00.000Z-Welshleprechaun-2012-07-27T17:14:00.000Z","replies":["c-Welshleprechaun-2012-07-29T08:51:00.000Z-Welshleprechaun-2012-07-28T09:21:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm not really prepared to enagage in a tit-for-tat dispute with you, to be honest. I can only reiterate that contributors will always find someone else's edits to disagree with - so I'm not going to list all your edits that I disagree with. It is very naive, for any editor, to think that no-one has a problem with their edits.

As you said, boosterism does happen on other pages, but I am not talking about any other settlement on this occasion, I am about talking the problem with the Swansea page, which I maintain is notorious, something which I don't expect you as a Swansea resident to agree with.

I stand by the content of my edits, although how I have gone about them could have been improved on reflection - but I'm sure the majority of us can say this. For example, it can hardly be disputed that Cardiff is a major UK city but perhaps some appropriate sources would have been relevant. I do not claim to be perfect - nor should you.

I don't mind this being applied consistently, in fact I would encourage it. I did not say that the boundaries are wrong. What I actually said was that - whether you like it or not - urban cores exist in counties like Swansea, which are what most people refer to when talking about a settlement. Since you're so keen on comparisons with Cardiff, Creigiau falls under Cardiff county, but as a small village, Creigiau is not part of the urban core of Cardiff. The boundaries are not 'wrong' but there are two separate population figures for a good reasons - and you know this all of this. Welshleprechaun 08:51, 29 July 2012 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-29T08:51:00.000Z","author":"Welshleprechaun","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Welshleprechaun-2012-07-29T08:51:00.000Z-Welshleprechaun-2012-07-28T09:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I see that you've edited the History of Northern Ireland article, back in March of 2010. I'm trying to get some feedback at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Northern Ireland#Rose Report on the "Rose Report" which has been listed for several years on WikiProject Northern Ireland as an article in need of creation. I've had the request for information up since 20 August without response. At least we should be able to identify what it is, so we can see if it really belongs on that list. Even if you don't know what it is, saying so would be a help. If we get enough of those, that will at least answer the question about its relative importance. Thanks in advance. --Bejnar (talk) 03:18, 12 October 2012 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-10-12T03:18:00.000Z","author":"Bejnar","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bejnar-2012-10-12T03:18:00.000Z-Rose_Report","replies":[]}}-->

Hiya Pondle. Agreed about Swansea Uni. It should really go in the Neath Port Talbot article. Strange why the Neath and Port Talbot articles have sections on education and the article on Neath Port Talbot does not. There is a single local education authority which covers nearly all of Neath Port Talbot, I think. Argoed (talk) 21:59, 12 October 2012 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-10-12T21:59:00.000Z","author":"Argoed","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Argoed-2012-10-12T21:59:00.000Z-Port_Talbot","replies":[]}}-->