This is an archive of past discussions with User:Graham87. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Hello, Graham87. You have new messages at Figureskatingfan's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Christine (talk) 17:53, 2 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-02T17:53:00.000Z","author":"Figureskatingfan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Figureskatingfan-2009-08-02T17:53:00.000Z-Greg_Page","replies":[],"displayName":"Christine"}}-->

I appreciate very much your editing. It certainly had some typos I wasn't aware of. Thanks. --Agcala (talk) 18:11, 2 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-02T18:11:00.000Z","author":"Agcala","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Agcala-2009-08-02T18:11:00.000Z-Thanks","replies":[]}}-->

Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates#Objection to this. Cheers, Dabomb87 (talk) 15:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-04T15:32:00.000Z","author":"Dabomb87","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dabomb87-2009-08-04T15:32:00.000Z-You_may_want_to_take_a_look...","replies":[]}}-->

(Move log); 14:02:10 . . Graham87 (talk | contribs) moved Talk:IBM Golfball typewriter to Talk:IBM Selectric typewriter/Archive 1 (move to archive)
(Deletion log); 14:01:08 . . Graham87 (talk | contribs) restored "IBM Golfball typewriter" (2 revisions restored: restore other edits)
(Move log); 14:00:53 . . Graham87 (talk | contribs) moved IBM Golfball typewriter to IBM Selectric typewriter over redirect (revert)
(Deletion log); 14:00:38 . . Graham87 (talk | contribs) restored "IBM Golfball typewriter" (2 revisions restored: history merge)
(Move log); 13:59:58 . . Graham87 (talk | contribs) moved IBM Selectric typewriter to IBM Golfball typewriter (history merge)
(Deletion log); 13:59:57 . . Graham87 (talk | contribs) deleted "IBM Golfball typewriter" (G6: Deleted to make way for move)
(Deletion log); 13:59:21 . . Graham87 (talk | contribs) restored "IBM Selectric typewriter" (297 revisions restored)
(Deletion log); 13:58:44 . . Graham87 (talk | contribs) deleted "IBM Selectric typewriter" (prepare for history merge)


I am an infrequent WP editor, not very familiar with the more subtle points of moves and redirects. Can you help me to understand the reason for, and the net effect of, this strange-appearing series of deletes, undeletes, merges, etc.? Jeh (talk) 17:24, 4 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-04T17:24:00.000Z","author":"Jeh","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jeh-2009-08-04T17:24:00.000Z-Strange_series_of_changes_to_IBM_Selectric?","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-05T00:12:00.000Z-Jeh-2009-08-04T17:24:00.000Z"]}}-->

I did a history merge on the page so that all the edits to the article are in one place. It makes it easier to tell who wrote what. I moved the old talk page to an archive to make it easily accessible. Graham87 00:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-05T00:12:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-05T00:12:00.000Z-Jeh-2009-08-04T17:24:00.000Z","replies":["c-Jeh-2009-08-07T07:30:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-05T00:12:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

Well that's pretty darned amazing. Never seen that before. Thanks for the explanation and the work! Jeh (talk) 07:30, 7 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-07T07:30:00.000Z","author":"Jeh","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Jeh-2009-08-07T07:30:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-05T00:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Why did change the name of Equal Rights Amendment and then change it back? SMP0328. (talk) 03:07, 5 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-05T03:07:00.000Z","author":"SMP0328.","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SMP0328.-2009-08-05T03:07:00.000Z-ERA_name_changes","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-05T03:27:00.000Z-SMP0328.-2009-08-05T03:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

I did a history merge on the page to fix an old cut-and-paste move. Graham87 03:27, 5 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-05T03:27:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-05T03:27:00.000Z-SMP0328.-2009-08-05T03:07:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

Just out of curiosity, were the moves to this article to remove the WP:BLP violations that I reverted a few days ago? Wildhartlivie (talk) 03:09, 5 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-05T03:09:00.000Z","author":"Wildhartlivie","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Wildhartlivie-2009-08-05T03:09:00.000Z-Columbine_High_School_massacre","replies":["c-Wildhartlivie-2009-08-05T03:39:00.000Z-Wildhartlivie-2009-08-05T03:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ack! I'm an idiot, that removal was this one to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. No wonder I didn't see it in the history! Sorry to bother you! Wildhartlivie (talk) 03:39, 5 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-05T03:39:00.000Z","author":"Wildhartlivie","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Wildhartlivie-2009-08-05T03:39:00.000Z-Wildhartlivie-2009-08-05T03:09:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

  GRAHAM87,

  UPDATED THE PATRIARCA CRIME FAMILY PAGE AND KEEPS BEING DELETED BY YOU. UNDERSTAND I KNOW PEOPLE IN THE FAMILY AND ALL MY INFO IS FACTUAL. PLEASE STOP DELETING INFO. MY UPDATES ARE BASED ON PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH SOME MEMBERS.

  REGARDS,

  Gmgman37 (talk) 20:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-05T20:45:00.000Z","author":"Gmgman37","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gmgman37-2009-08-05T20:45:00.000Z-patriarca_crime_family","replies":[]}}-->

That is clear reasoning. Us people who see are lazy and don't bother to think things out. Shows that I didn't really look at the picture very closely at all. I would like to know how you manage to do all that you do with a text reader and a voice synthesizer. I have been on Wikipedia over three years and can barely keep track of anything, certainly not at the level you do. I think your input is extremely useful and would like to hear more of what you think. Your views enlarge my vision of the world and make me think. Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 00:55, 7 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-07T00:55:00.000Z","author":"Mattisse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mattisse-2009-08-07T00:55:00.000Z-Putin_on_left","replies":[]}}-->

What is your concept of "white" as a color? Or of "black"? White is define as all colors, but it looks visually like no color. Black is defined as no color, but it looks like all colors mixed together. Blonde hair color has almost no color pigments (unless it has be dyed to be very bright), so it is near white in appearance. And other features characterize a naturally blonde person, like skin very susceptible to sunburn (because of little pigmentation), blue eyes (that are more susceptible to the sun), and certain facial and bodily characteristics, since natural blondes arose from a relatively homogeneous genetic pool (unless they are albinos). Half of my family is entirely Scandinavian, so natural blondes are common in my family. How would you describe the "trunk" of an elephant? I wonder if you have had a chance to feel an elephant with you hands, if that gave you more information? Do you go to zoos and places and feel animals and sense their presence? I imagine you do, as you seem a very curious and information-seeking person. Now that I know how you became blind, I realize that you never did experience sight enough to have memories. But yet you have figured out so much, that you don't see disadvantaged by blindness; rather your experience seems to have been enlarged. Your description of Wikipedia's confusion is my experience also. Maybe JAWS would help me in figuring it all out. However, I sense that learning JAWS would be beyond my technical capabilities. Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 14:03, 7 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-07T14:03:00.000Z","author":"Mattisse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mattisse-2009-08-07T14:03:00.000Z-Blonde","replies":["c-Mattisse-2009-08-07T15:05:00.000Z-Mattisse-2009-08-07T14:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

I replied on my page, but I don't care whose page we use. I have your page watchlisted (along with 2,000 other pages). —Mattisse (Talk) 15:05, 7 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-07T15:05:00.000Z","author":"Mattisse","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Mattisse-2009-08-07T15:05:00.000Z-Mattisse-2009-08-07T14:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Ragesoss has replied that he thinks it is a good idea. Do you have any ideas for what to include? I was thinking about some of the usability issues (for the enlightenment of others) but also some of your experiences that none of us who are sighted would even think about. Looking at your contributions, I see that you get involved in some intensive stuff, way over my head. I do not even have the capabilities of an administrator. —Mattisse (Talk) 18:49, 7 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-07T18:49:00.000Z","author":"Mattisse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mattisse-2009-08-07T18:49:00.000Z-Signpost_interview","replies":["c-Mattisse-2009-08-10T00:35:00.000Z-Mattisse-2009-08-07T18:49:00.000Z","c-Graham87-2009-08-10T00:47:00.000Z-Mattisse-2009-08-07T18:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

Just checking back with you to tell you I am thinking. I am somewhat intimidated, as you function at a much higher level than I do. Also, I am thinking about alt text, as to me the issue is not simple. The other accessibility issues I am unaware of, except for the ones you mentioned. I checked out JAWS, but I am sure even the demo version is way over my head. Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 00:35, 10 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-10T00:35:00.000Z","author":"Mattisse","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Mattisse-2009-08-10T00:35:00.000Z-Mattisse-2009-08-07T18:49:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

OK. Your message just reminded me of bug 11555, which is another accessibility issue that affects me. The effect isn't so bad with my newer JAWS version and the script in my monobook.js, but I'd still prefer not to hear the word "edit" after every single section name. I'm replying here because this is a brief message, by my standards anyway. :-) Graham87 00:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-10T00:47:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-10T00:47:00.000Z-Mattisse-2009-08-07T18:49:00.000Z","replies":["c-Mattisse-2009-08-10T01:22:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-10T00:47:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

I can't image how it would be to hear the word "edit" after every single section, as noises in particular bother me. Although, I suppose, to some editors that would be helpful. But I see that various people have written scripts at your request to make life bearable for you. I wrote a new article today, but did not include alt text, as the whole thing has me in a mental mess. I am quite sure that I am more "near autistic" than you are. Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 01:22, 10 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-10T01:22:00.000Z","author":"Mattisse","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mattisse-2009-08-10T01:22:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-10T00:47:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Graham.

Thanks for your kind words, but in all fairness I put it neither as eloquently, nor as succinctly, as you just did.

Regarding the lists on my user page, I very much appreciate such feedback! As I think I may have mentioned, knowing just which oddities of various markup constructs in combination with various assistive technology create problems, and which work, is quite hard. Feedback from someone with experience in the area is immeasurably helpful. However, those lists were actually intentional in this case. For structure, I used lists as an alternative to nested sections; since that was what at the time seemed the most logical way to implement it. On the other hand I've never been quite happy with the page as it is. I'm using it as a kind of public todo list combined with my progress on each little project. I'm now rather inclined to move the more personal progress type items somewhere else and leave behind whatever part of it may conceivably be of interest to other editors visiting the page, and then preferably in mostly prose rather than list form. In any case, I'm not quite sure how I want to do it yet, so as a minimal workaround I've simply removed the blank lines between the various lists. I'd much appreciate it if you could give it a quick scan and let me know whether the problem is indeed gone.

PS, feel free to use either talk page at your preference. --Xover (talk) 20:32, 7 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-07T20:32:00.000Z","author":"Xover","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Xover-2009-08-07T20:32:00.000Z-Alt_text_and_HTML_lists","replies":[]}}-->

I've blanked User:BlankVerse/TFD and closed Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:BlankVerse/TFD myself. I also left a note on the user's talk page. Can you take a look at it to make sure everything seems ok. This is my first xfd closure and I wanted to make sure everything read about right. -Optigan13 (talk) 05:42, 8 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-08T05:42:00.000Z","author":"Optigan13","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Optigan13-2009-08-08T05:42:00.000Z-Miscellany_for_deletion\/User:BlankVerse\/TFD","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, yes, and thank you. I did notice at the end of the week but haven't been able to pay any attention to it just yet. I was familiar with the previous existence of UseModWiki, but I did not know what it meant to page histories. However, I take the point. I'll put a note on the post and, if I can, write a follow-up based on it. That does throw a wrench into my planned ongoing series... but maybe I can figure it out. (And I'll approve your comment now.) Cheers, WWB (talk) 19:59, 8 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-08T19:59:00.000Z","author":"WWB","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-WWB-2009-08-08T19:59:00.000Z-Re:_The_Wikipedian","replies":[]}}-->

I'm through all the stubs that were "vanilla" and now onto the corner cases. There are many that already have a captioned statement, i.e. Template:8bitcomputer-game-stub. I notice in the page source this is passed through as alt text. Is this desirable? More examples below and available on request. –xeno^talk 21:04, 8 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-08T21:04:00.000Z","author":"Xeno","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Xeno-2009-08-08T21:04:00.000Z-Question_about_stubs_and_alt_text","replies":[]}}-->

• Template:Absheron-geo-stub has [[Image:Azerbaijan_Template.png|40x30px|Map of Azerbaijan]] (somewhat inaccurate, it is actually a map and flag of combined)
• Template:Activision-stub has [[Image:Gamepad.svg|32px|Activision]] (inaccurate alternate description of picture)

$50 follow-up: Is Template:AshlandOH-school-stub a good way to go about doing double images? I think what I've done is suppressed alt text on the first and only noted it on the second. Or would it be preferred to have "Stub icon" twice? –xeno^talk 01:13, 9 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-09T01:13:00.000Z","author":"Xeno","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Xeno-2009-08-09T01:13:00.000Z-Question_about_stubs_and_alt_text","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-09T04:29:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-09T01:13:00.000Z","c-Xeno-2009-08-09T18:06:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-09T01:13:00.000Z","c-Xeno-2009-08-09T19:01:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-09T01:13:00.000Z"]}}-->

Having the caption used as alt text is fine by me. As for cases where there are two stub icons, use the alt text of "stub icon 1" for the first one and "stub icon 2" for the second one. Graham87 04:29, 9 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-09T04:29:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-09T04:29:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-09T01:13:00.000Z","replies":["c-Dodo\u00efste-2009-08-09T14:39:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-09T04:29:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

I agree with Graham87. The current page source for Template:AshlandOH-school-stub contains:

• <a href="File:Flag_of_Ohio.svg" class="image" title="Flag of Ohio.svg"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Flag_of_Ohio.svg/20px-Flag_of_Ohio.svg.png" width="20" height="13" /></a> <a href="File:School.svg" class="image" title="School.svg"><img alt="Stub icon" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/School.svg/20px-School.svg.png" width="20" height="20" /></a>

The first image is a link (<a href="File:Flag_of_Ohio.svg"), and it's alt text is empty (<img alt=""). In this case, a screen reader would read the filename, which is bad.^[1] See also Wikipedia:Alternative text for images#When to specify.

So we need to provide alt text for both icons. Thanks for the good job you are doing, Xeno. :-) Dodoïste (talk) 14:39, 9 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-09T14:39:00.000Z","author":"Dodo\u00efste","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dodo\u00efste-2009-08-09T14:39:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-09T04:29:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

No problem... I will go through and clean up the last double images ones and do this [1] on a go-forward. Cheers, –xeno^talk 18:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-09T18:06:00.000Z","author":"Xeno","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Xeno-2009-08-09T18:06:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-09T01:13:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Going back to the first question, I am still concerned that an unknown number of these alt-texts already being passed through are inaccurate. For example, on Template:Denmark-architect-stub, it is currently using an alt text of "Austria". I can only assume this was leftover from a copy-and-paste job or something. I have a preliminary list of those I've skipped for this reason at User:Xenobot/sandbox#A-C by reason. I'll probably do them separately (or maybe use imagealt= and a maintenance cat) so that they can be reviewed after the fact... Unless either of you think that upon review, that it's best to use the default. –xeno^talk 19:01, 9 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-09T19:01:00.000Z","author":"Xeno","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Xeno-2009-08-09T19:01:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-09T01:13:00.000Z","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-10T00:26:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-09T19:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'd say the Denmark architect one was left over from a cut and paste move, because it said "an Danish architect" before I corrected it. I dunno ... I like the descriptive captions, but it'd be better if every stub template had the same alt text for consistency. So I'd change all the alt text to "stub icon". Graham87 00:26, 10 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-10T00:26:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-10T00:26:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-09T19:01:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

What are your thoughts on the default alt text for icons suchlike Template:Soccer icon2? (A soccer ball superimposed on a country flag)... I was thinking something simple like "Soccer icon" ... ? –xeno^talk 13:53, 25 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-25T13:53:00.000Z","author":"Xeno","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Xeno-2009-08-25T13:53:00.000Z-Alt_text_for_the_various_icon_handlers","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-25T13:55:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-25T13:53:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yep, "Soccer icon" would be fine. Graham87 13:55, 25 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-25T13:55:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-25T13:55:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-25T13:53:00.000Z","replies":["c-Xeno-2009-08-25T13:59:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-25T13:55:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

Oops, there's two images... "Flag icon" + "Soccer icon" or something? There doesn't seem to be a way to click on the flag icon that is behind the soccer ball... How does the screen reader handle it now (e.g. Eric_Boucher) –xeno^talk 13:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-25T13:59:00.000Z","author":"Xeno","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Xeno-2009-08-25T13:59:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-25T13:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-25T14:11:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-25T13:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

It says the file name of the flag of France, them the "soccer icon" alt text. The flag of France should probably have an alt text of "flag of France". Graham87 14:11, 25 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-25T14:11:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-25T14:11:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-25T13:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Xeno-2009-08-25T14:30:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-25T14:11:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

K thanks. Done, [2] [3] [4] [5]. –xeno^talk 14:30, 25 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-25T14:30:00.000Z","author":"Xeno","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Xeno-2009-08-25T14:30:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-25T14:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-25T14:34:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-25T14:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks very much. :-) Graham87 14:34, 25 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-25T14:34:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-25T14:34:00.000Z-Xeno-2009-08-25T14:30:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

What exactly were you doing with all the moving about and deleting? I couldn't quite tell. --Thejadefalcon (talk) 15:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-11T15:29:00.000Z","author":"Thejadefalcon","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thejadefalcon-2009-08-11T15:29:00.000Z-Elite_Force","replies":["c-Human.v2.0-2009-08-11T19:14:00.000Z-Thejadefalcon-2009-08-11T15:29:00.000Z"]}}-->

Came here to ask the same thing. Is there a particular reason that you keep redirecting things back and forth? --Human.v2.0 (talk) 19:14, 11 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-11T19:14:00.000Z","author":"Human.v2.0","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Human.v2.0-2009-08-11T19:14:00.000Z-Thejadefalcon-2009-08-11T15:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Thejadefalcon-2009-08-12T10:04:00.000Z-Human.v2.0-2009-08-11T19:14:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks, I guess. I never noticed anything wrong, but then again, I didn't go into the history of that page that often. --Thejadefalcon (talk) 10:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-12T10:04:00.000Z","author":"Thejadefalcon","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Thejadefalcon-2009-08-12T10:04:00.000Z-Human.v2.0-2009-08-11T19:14:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Graham

I see you deleted my Fermanagh Concert Band page. I am the musical director of the band and to my knowledge I did not violate any of the wikipedia criteria. The twitter / facebook links are all the bands own and the link to the online sales agency for tickets just sells the tickets for concerts, nothing else. There is no adverstising or trying to merchandise. What can be done to reinstall the site?

Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.151.111 (talk • contribs) 08:29, 12 August 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-08-12T08:29:00.000Z","author":"88.109.151.111","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-88.109.151.111-2008-08-12T08:29:00.000Z-Fermanagh_Concert_Band","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Graham,

Re Fermanagh Concert Band's wikipedia page. Please answer here or via info@fermanaghconcertband as I don't have a wikipedia site to answer on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.151.111 (talk • contribs) 08:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-08-12T08:30:00.000Z","author":"88.109.151.111","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-88.109.151.111-2008-08-12T08:30:00.000Z-Fermanagh_Concert_Band","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-12T09:01:00.000Z-88.109.151.111-2008-08-12T08:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

I deleted it because I don't think it's notable enough for Wikipedia - see the Wikipedia guidelines on inclusion of musicians or musical ensembles. The conflict of interest guidelines strongly discourage people from writing entries about something they're associated with. Therefore, since you're the director of the concert band, you shouldn't write the article about it, even though it's not a commercial enterprise. If you want an opinion from people who know more than me about Ireland/Northern Ireland, your best bet would probably be to ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland. Use the new section tab at that talk page and then write your message there. Graham87 09:01, 12 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-12T09:01:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-12T09:01:00.000Z-88.109.151.111-2008-08-12T08:30:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

Re Fermanagh Concert Band's deletion

Within minutes of looking at your reasons I have easily found the following wikipedia pages from bands and musicians not as notable as ourselves. Here they are

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucan_concert_band http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knocklyon_Concert_Band_Society_and_Music_School http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions_Youth_Brass_Band http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Catherwood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamalin_(band) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scald_(band)

You mean to tell me that they themselves weren't involved in the authorship of these sites? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.151.111 (talk) 12:22, 12 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-12T12:22:00.000Z","author":"88.109.151.111","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-88.109.151.111-2009-08-12T12:22:00.000Z-Fermanagh_Concert_Band","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-12T13:04:00.000Z-88.109.151.111-2009-08-12T12:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

Maybe, especially for your first two samples. But that argument doesn't apply because there's nothing stopping anyone from creating an article. I was tempted to delete some of your examples, especially the earlier ones. I'm not convinced that your concert band is more notable than your examples, and anyway, Wikipedia is not for self-promotion.

The other problem was the phrasing of the article. It needs to be more neutral and not seem like it has chunks copied wholesale from the official website. Graham87 13:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-12T13:04:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-12T13:04:00.000Z-88.109.151.111-2009-08-12T12:22:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

Re Fermanagh Concert Band's deletion.

I accept your argument about self-promotion, though a quick scan round Wikipedia, especially on music sites, would indicate that it is rife. I accept too, that it sounds too much like text taken off a webpage, though in fairness, it is no different a lot of Wikipedia sites. I do not accept that the examples of other organisations are more notable! Anyhow, where do we go from here? The bottom line is, I believe the band is notable enough to merit a listing. The band is very active and frequently fills professional theatres. Are there any re-wordings I can do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.151.111 (talk) 13:33, 12 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-12T13:33:00.000Z","author":"88.109.151.111","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-88.109.151.111-2009-08-12T13:33:00.000Z-Fermanagh_Concert_Band","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-12T13:46:00.000Z-88.109.151.111-2009-08-12T13:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

Go ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland. They'll have more local knowledge than I do, and more knowledge of which musical groups in the area should and shouldn't have articles. Graham87 13:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-12T13:46:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-12T13:46:00.000Z-88.109.151.111-2009-08-12T13:33:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

Re Fermanagh Concert Band's deletion.

Thank you. We are in Northern Ireland which is in the UK, not the Republic of Ireland - do you have an alternative site we can ask on? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.151.111 (talk • contribs) 14:22, 12 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-12T14:22:00.000Z","author":"88.109.151.111","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-88.109.151.111-2009-08-12T14:22:00.000Z-Fermanagh_Concert_Band","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-12T14:23:00.000Z-88.109.151.111-2009-08-12T14:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the page I linked deals with the island of Ireland, not the Republic. Graham87 14:23, 12 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-12T14:23:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-12T14:23:00.000Z-88.109.151.111-2009-08-12T14:22:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

I have determined consensus at your candidate Wikipedia:Featured sound candidates/Andante from The Creatures of Prometheus by Beethoven and promoted. Ottava Rima (talk) 23:09, 14 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-14T23:09:00.000Z","author":"Ottava Rima","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ottava_Rima-2009-08-14T23:09:00.000Z-WP:FSC","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for fixing the vandalism on my user page. I was not even aware of the problem for months. Probably nobody else visited me. Kowloonese (talk) 12:16, 15 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-15T12:16:00.000Z","author":"Kowloonese","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kowloonese-2009-08-15T12:16:00.000Z-user_page","replies":[]}}-->

I notice that, a few days ago, you made a long series of moves etc to Series (mathematics) and related pages. Just as a matter of interest, I wonder if you would tell me what the effect of this series of changes was? JamesBWatson (talk) 19:17, 19 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-19T19:17:00.000Z","author":"JamesBWatson","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JamesBWatson-2009-08-19T19:17:00.000Z-Your_series_of_changes_to_a_series_of_articles_about_series","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-08-20T00:08:00.000Z-JamesBWatson-2009-08-19T19:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

I did a series of history merges on the article and talk page about series, so all the edits to the pages are now in one place. Graham87 00:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-20T00:08:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-08-20T00:08:00.000Z-JamesBWatson-2009-08-19T19:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-JamesBWatson-2009-08-20T12:36:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-20T00:08:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

Thanks for explaining. JamesBWatson (talk) 12:36, 20 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-20T12:36:00.000Z","author":"JamesBWatson","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-JamesBWatson-2009-08-20T12:36:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-08-20T00:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The Mysterious Barricades is arguably F. Couperin's most famous piece, and I would appreciate restoring the link to the music arrangement I posted.

The phrase "not a collection of links" seems to be carte blanc to remove ALL links you are a bit unhappy with. From what I make out of the guidelines and rules which I also understand are not hard and fast, that link WAS well within the guidelines and rules.

So unless you can SPECIFICALLY point out where the guidelines are in conflict with the link, it should have stayed. A reference to a long-winded somethwhat nebulous page where I am supposed to infer where it was totally out of place ... isn't otherwise very helpful.

If you don't want folks to touch your work, fine. That is human nature.

And if you can't see the work you have so casually deleted ... I understand too.

Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oracle2universe (talk • contribs) 18:39, 23 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-23T18:39:00.000Z","author":"Oracle2universe","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Oracle2universe-2009-08-23T18:39:00.000Z-Couperin","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Graham, we are discussing some changes to navbox that should hopefully improve their usability for all users. However we are not sure about the screenreader support for the characters ▼ and ▲. If you have any knowledge to contribute, we would welcome it. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:18, 25 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-25T13:18:00.000Z","author":"TheDJ","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-TheDJ-2009-08-25T13:18:00.000Z-Usability_and_Accessibility_of_navbox","replies":[]}}-->

Graham87,

I am trying to post content on the East Bay Run Club, but it seems it has been deleted. There are several other running clubs in the bay area that have content on Wikipedia, including Dolphin South End Runners and Road Runners of America.

Can you help by "userfy"ing the content for me? I would also like to include a few key photos. What kind of photos can I include?

I've provided a copy of the content below: <content snipped> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jstrishak (talk • contribs) 17:29, 1 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-01T17:29:00.000Z","author":"Jstrishak","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jstrishak-2009-09-01T17:29:00.000Z-East_Bay_Run_Club","replies":[]}}-->

Thank you, I appreciate it, Slrubenstein | Talk 07:52, 3 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-03T07:52:00.000Z","author":"Slrubenstein","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Slrubenstein-2009-09-03T07:52:00.000Z-archiving","replies":[]}}-->

Graham, do you have time to look at the question here? Thanks, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:58, 5 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-05T17:58:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2009-09-05T17:58:00.000Z-FAC_accessibility_question","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Graham, I asked the following question on SandyGeorgia's page and she suggested that I check with you:

Hey Sandy, just a quick question about this edit. After skimming WP:ACCESS couldn't find anything about placement of images before this template; the guidelines for the lede section, written in that page and in WP:LEDE#Elements of the lede, appear to mostly say "put images after dablinks and cleanup templates but before navboxes; WP:ACCESS#Images doesn't really seem to say anything about placement (other than where images should be relevant to section headers), but is more about stuff like alt-text and prose descriptions. In this case, I had the image below the {{SpecialChars}} box, which is what I usually do (as per Template:SpecialChars/doc) to make the notice about character rendering support easy to find (since rendering support is also an accessibility issue).

Anyway, in this case it's not a very big deal because there's hardly any difference between the two versions. I was just wondering if you could point me to a relevant guideline about placement of images and {{SpecialChars}} or similar templates, in case this comes up again (since a lot of articles I write use this template at the top of the article). Thanks, rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 19:13, 6 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-06T19:13:00.000Z","author":"Rjanag","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rjanag-2009-09-06T19:13:00.000Z-Images_&_accessibility_question","replies":[],"displayName":"r\u02a8ana\u0262"}}-->

Do you know anything about this? Thanks, rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 19:31, 6 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-06T19:31:00.000Z","author":"Rjanag","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rjanag-2009-09-06T19:31:00.000Z-Images_&_accessibility_question","replies":[],"displayName":"r\u02a8ana\u0262"}}-->

My impression is that this move (and the other 200+ moves) would be ill-advised. Most basically, this violates the "common name" rule, as a newspaper, conversationalist, or academic source would certainly include "Pope" in the first reference. Additionally, many popes share names with monarchs, antipopes, other bishops, or patriarchs of other denominations, and leaving only these would create confusing inconsistency. Savidan 14:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-10T14:46:00.000Z","author":"Savidan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Savidan-2009-09-10T14:46:00.000Z-Pope_Pius_XII_->_Pius_XII","replies":[]}}-->

I'm loving it.... --A3RO (mailbox) 06:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-11T06:36:00.000Z","author":"A3RO","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-A3RO-2009-09-11T06:36:00.000Z-You're_dangerous...","replies":["c-A3RO-2009-09-11T15:07:00.000Z-A3RO-2009-09-11T06:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

In regards to your message, that's hot. :) --A3RO (mailbox) 15:07, 11 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-11T15:07:00.000Z","author":"A3RO","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-A3RO-2009-09-11T15:07:00.000Z-A3RO-2009-09-11T06:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Whoops! Thanks for catching my accidental revert on Samoyed (dog). GM Pink Elephant (talk) 17:58, 11 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-11T17:58:00.000Z","author":"GM Pink Elephant","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GM_Pink_Elephant-2009-09-11T17:58:00.000Z-Samoyed","replies":[]}}-->

Hey Graham87,

I found out that Treblinka_extermination_camp is missing some edit history from before March 2002. Is there anything that can be done? Not that it's terribly important, but in this case, it lost the majority of the source content for the article!

Let me know Christopher Mahan (talk) 10:16, 15 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-15T10:16:00.000Z","author":"Christopher Mahan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Christopher_Mahan-2009-09-15T10:16:00.000Z-page_history_truncated","replies":[]}}-->

Excellent! Thanks. Christopher Mahan (talk) 07:27, 16 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-16T07:27:00.000Z","author":"Christopher Mahan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Christopher_Mahan-2009-09-16T07:27:00.000Z-Re;_treblinka","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, just wondering why you moved Horse breeding to Horse Breeding and then back again, with all the deleting and re-adding. I have spent three years on wiki with the rule that only the initial word was capitalized. Did this "rule" just change of was there some other legitimate reason to do this? The history logs on my watchlist are very confusing. (Seems to be a bit of article moving and renaming going on in general, what's up? Montanabw^(talk) 01:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-17T01:16:00.000Z","author":"Montanabw","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Montanabw-2009-09-17T01:16:00.000Z-Move_and_rename--why?","replies":["c-Montanabw-2009-09-17T01:39:00.000Z-Montanabw-2009-09-17T01:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

Okey dokey. Montanabw^(talk) 01:39, 17 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-17T01:39:00.000Z","author":"Montanabw","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Montanabw-2009-09-17T01:39:00.000Z-Montanabw-2009-09-17T01:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I'm not sure I quite understand what you did to my user page history, but thanks for your help never-the-less! --nathanbeach 18:57, 20 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-20T18:57:00.000Z","author":"NathanBeach","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-NathanBeach-2009-09-20T18:57:00.000Z-history_merge","replies":[],"displayName":"--nathanbeach"}}-->

Thanks (I think) for whatever you did to sort out my archives. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:17, 21 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-21T05:17:00.000Z","author":"ChildofMidnight","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ChildofMidnight-2009-09-21T05:17:00.000Z-Archives","replies":[]}}-->

..for this. I didn't even notice it. :) I appreciate the time that you took to fix that for me, it's appreciated. Regards, Javért ^☆ 06:05, 21 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-21T06:05:00.000Z","author":"Javert","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Javert-2009-09-21T06:05:00.000Z-Thanks_2","replies":[],"displayName":"Jav\u00e9rt"}}-->

User:Graham87 has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Graham87's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Graham87! Peace, Rlevse 00:46, 23 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-23T00:46:00.000Z","author":"Rlevse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rlevse-2009-09-23T00:46:00.000Z-Happy_Graham87's_Day!","replies":[]}}--> A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:46, 23 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-23T00:46:00.000Z","author":"Rlevse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rlevse-2009-09-23T00:46:00.000Z-Happy_Graham87's_Day!-1","replies":[]}}-->

Welcome back, Graham! We haven't spoken for a while but I just happened to notice that you had returned from holidays, with your Terminator-like message :) So happy editing... Johnfos (talk) 03:29, 28 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-28T03:29:00.000Z","author":"Johnfos","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Johnfos-2009-09-28T03:29:00.000Z-Welcome_back","replies":[]}}-->

Graham, I really appreciate you adding this link as it does indeed tell my personal story and is based on genuine facts and is not in any way sensationalised. I will be adding a page that includes details of another survivor Simon MacKay who is autistic and legally blind who also suffers from epilepsy. His story is inspiring and powerful. Behind the physical reality of his condition is one of the most beautiful people I know. I've tended to find that is the case with most people with physical challenges that able bodied people don't even begin to fathom and as a result just ignore and write them off. Our loss!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.141.76.84 (talk) 05:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-05T05:34:00.000Z","author":"112.141.76.84","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-112.141.76.84-2009-10-05T05:34:00.000Z-Graham_thankyou_for_allowing_Ben_Shenton_personal_link_to_be_added","replies":[]}}-->

Thank you for the history merging you are doing. If there is something that a non-admin can do to help in your effort, please let me know. When I run across redirects that have resulted from recent cut-and-paste moves, such as List of Armenian schools in the Ottoman Empire → Armenian education in the Ottoman Empire, is there something I should do about them, or are they not an issue without a pending RfD? -- ToE^T 21:37, 5 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-05T21:37:00.000Z","author":"Thinking of England","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thinking_of_England-2009-10-05T21:37:00.000Z-History_merge_2","replies":[],"displayName":"ToE"}}-->

Thank you for the {{db-histmerge}} advice; I've been using it. What is best done with situations such as The stolen lake → The Stolen Lake where the creator failed to notice the move and continued to edit at the old title, now a redirect. Give the subsequent edits to the article (minor as they are) should I just hand merge the new material and tag the redirect {{R from merge}}?-- ToE^T 11:16, 6 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-06T11:16:00.000Z","author":"Thinking of England","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thinking_of_England-2009-10-06T11:16:00.000Z-History_merge_2","replies":[],"displayName":"ToE"}}-->

Done. Thank you. -- ToE^T 11:34, 6 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-06T11:34:00.000Z","author":"Thinking of England","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thinking_of_England-2009-10-06T11:34:00.000Z-History_merge_2","replies":[],"displayName":"ToE"}}-->

OK Boss, what about Licensing Industry Merchandier's Association → Licensing Industry Merchandiser's Association where there was only a single edit in the original (misspelled) page before the cut and paste to the second page (identical content but with the addition of a category). Is this worth bothering anyone about for a {{db-histmerge}} since the only useful history in the redirect is the same as the initial edit in the target and was by the same editor?

I'd just as soon see the redirect deleted, and I might pop it up at RfD as an unlikely misspelling, but it's hard to get {{R from misspelling}}s like this deleted there as its very existence proves that "someone made that misspelling once". I really think that redirects resulting from unintentional misspelling (as opposed to those intended from the start as an {{R from misspelling}} should be speedy candidates. It is not as if Wikipedia would benefit by having redirects from every possible permutation of misspellings of a multi-word title. Well, back to the case at hand, you might find it interesting that this abandoned, misspelled stub sat forgotten for eight months before becoming a redirect, and that was properly done by an IP user who followed the redirect with an HTML comment containing 29 lines of whitespace and profanity. Go figure. -- ToE^T 04:43, 7 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-07T04:43:00.000Z","author":"Thinking of England","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thinking_of_England-2009-10-07T04:43:00.000Z-History_merge_2","replies":[],"displayName":"ToE"}}-->

You are my hero! -- ToE^T 05:01, 7 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-07T05:01:00.000Z","author":"Thinking of England","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thinking_of_England-2009-10-07T05:01:00.000Z-History_merge_2","replies":[],"displayName":"ToE"}}-->

This is a request to userfy the deleted pages: Youth In Asia (New Jersey) -and the deleted page: Pulling Out The Plug - and have a copy of both articles which I created but were deleted emailed to me. Thank you , Jim K Ibjk (talk) 19:02, 18 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-18T19:02:00.000Z","author":"Ibjk","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ibjk-2009-10-18T19:02:00.000Z-Youth_IN_Asia_(New_Jersey)_and_Pulling_Out_The_Plug","replies":[]}}-->

Thank you for the email! Yes, I would like the articles to be userfied. (wasn't sure where to answer and hit a fewe spots... slowly i'll get the hang of things...!)Thanks again, Jim Ibjk (talk) 01:12, 19 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-19T01:12:00.000Z","author":"Ibjk","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ibjk-2009-10-19T01:12:00.000Z-Youth_IN_Asia_(New_Jersey)_and_Pulling_Out_The_Plug","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for all the great proofreading on the D'Oyly Carte and other G&S articles today! Any interest in joining WP:G&S? -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:16, 19 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-19T03:16:00.000Z","author":"Ssilvers","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ssilvers-2009-10-19T03:16:00.000Z-Nice_work","replies":["c-Ssilvers-2009-10-19T03:32:00.000Z-Ssilvers-2009-10-19T03:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for the message. Well, we have over 350 articles tagged in the G&S project, and I am pretty sure that some of them have typos! Our project page also has a to do list. I'm preparing to nominate the Richard D'Oyly Carte article for GA review, so if you have any comments on it, I'm all ears. Best regards! -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:32, 19 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-19T03:32:00.000Z","author":"Ssilvers","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ssilvers-2009-10-19T03:32:00.000Z-Ssilvers-2009-10-19T03:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi,

Is it strictly necessary to keep less than 1k of old article history segregated away into its own archive for eternity? It's basically an old fork, after all, and there never seems to have been a problem in deleting forks in the past. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:15, 22 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-22T11:15:00.000Z","author":"Thumperward","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thumperward-2009-10-22T11:15:00.000Z-Talk:Wiki_farm\/Old_history","replies":[],"displayName":"Chris Cunningham (not at work)"}}-->

You removed some blank lines from a list in the article An die Jugend, and give the reason as Screen reader. I tested this section with the screen reader on my computer, and removing the blank lines had no discernible effect on the results with the screen reader on my computer. So what was the reason for removing them? --Robert.Allen (talk) 18:34, 24 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-24T18:34:00.000Z","author":"Robert.Allen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Robert.Allen-2009-10-24T18:34:00.000Z-Screen_reader_edits","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for your answer, and I see your point. Also I imagine there may be some kind of policy regarding this on Wikipedia. But the blank lines certainly improve readability for people with sight and also also make editing easier I checked three reference books that I have. Each one contains one or more lists which set off the individual items with blank lines between them, so this practice is not at all unusual. If the screen reader were more sophisticated, it would realize this. Perhaps the screen reader could be improved. Someone could provide feedback to the people who write the software that a single blank line between items in a list does not mean the start of a new list, in particular, when there are a succession of such items each with only a single bullet.

An aside, do you happen to know whether devices exists that can scan and read regular books out loud (using some kind of OCR)?

Also, another aside, I was wondering whether the JAWS screen reader does anything special to indicate the presence of Wiki links, since my screen reader ignores them. --Robert.Allen (talk) 19:18, 24 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-24T19:18:00.000Z","author":"Robert.Allen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Robert.Allen-2009-10-24T19:18:00.000Z-Screen_reader_edits","replies":["c-Robert.Allen-2009-10-25T04:27:00.000Z-Robert.Allen-2009-10-24T19:18:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've been using the default reader with Mac OS X 10.5, which is probably pretty basic. --Robert.Allen (talk) 04:27, 25 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-25T04:27:00.000Z","author":"Robert.Allen","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Robert.Allen-2009-10-25T04:27:00.000Z-Robert.Allen-2009-10-24T19:18:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hey, Graham, thanks for all the info. I've learned a lot! --Robert.Allen (talk) 06:15, 25 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-25T06:15:00.000Z","author":"Robert.Allen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Robert.Allen-2009-10-25T06:15:00.000Z-Screen_reader_edits","replies":[]}}-->

Thank you for participating in my RfA, which passed nearly unanimously with 174 in support, 2 in opposition and 1 neutral votes. Special thanks goes to RegentsPark, Samir and John Carter for their kind nomination and support. I am truly honored by the trust and confidence that the community has placed in me. I thank you for your kind inputs and I will be sincerely looking at the reasons that people opposed me so I can improve in those areas ( including my english ;) ). If you ever need anything please feel free to ask me and I would be happy to help you :). Have a great day ! -- Tinu Cherian - 06:02, 28 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-28T06:02:00.000Z","author":"Tinucherian","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tinucherian-2009-10-28T06:02:00.000Z-Did_I_forget_to_thank_you?_..","replies":[],"displayName":"Tinu"}}-->

Hi, I've noticed your work with some tricky history merges and wondered if you might be able to help with repairing the effects of some copy-and-paste moves at Nazarene and a few related pages. I summarized some of the edit milestones at Talk:Nazarene#A summary of the edit history of this and related pages. By my analysis, all the edits currently at Nazarene (title) from before 25 June 2009 [6] should be merged with those of the disambiguation page currently at Nazarene. As far as I'm concerned, the back and forth edits between myself and Renejs (and one or two other editors) from 21 October 2009 through 29 October 2009 could go away as noise, although there are a handful of interleaving edits by Renejs at Nazarene, which he was attempting to turn into an article, that could perhaps be merged into Nazarene (title) (which will likely be properly renamed by a requested move soon).

I could perhaps do this merging myself, though I haven't previously done many selective history merges. If you could explain what I need to do, I might be able to work through this without making the histories worse than they are now.

If you're interested in a separate challenge (only incidental to the current incident) -- back on 14:05, 10 August 2004, User:IZAK merged content from Nazarene Judaism and Nazarene Jews into the article now at Nazarene (sect). There may be other anomalies in the early edit history of these articles, though these aren't at issue in the present discussions at Talk:Nazarene.

Cheers, older ≠ wiser 11:35, 31 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-31T11:35:00.000Z","author":"Bkonrad","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bkonrad-2009-10-31T11:35:00.000Z-Help_with_a_history_merge","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-10-31T12:15:00.000Z-Bkonrad-2009-10-31T11:35:00.000Z"],"displayName":"older"}}-->

The Nazarene pages definitely seem to need a history merge, per this diff. I would do it this way (I'll do it myself if you're not comfortable with it):

1. Move "Nazarene", without a redirect, to Nazarene/Temp, for step 2. The lack of redirect at the title "Nazarene" will be helpful later.
2. Delete Nazarene/Temp, then selectively undelete all the edits except the earliest one, using the invert selection button. We don't need random page move revisions in the history.
3. Move Nazarene/Temp to Nazarene (title), once again without a redirect. Tell MediaWiki to delete "Nazarene (title)" while performing the move.
4. History merge as many revisions of "Nazarene (title)" as you like, up to 15 July 2009 (where the history currently at "Nazarene" begins
5. Move "Nazarene (title) back to "Nazarene", again without a redirect.
6. Restore all remaining revisions of "Nazarene (title)". Since you moved it without a redirect in the previous step, you don't need to take any further action.

As for your second question, I don't perform history merges where two or more pages have been merged because the history can become difficult to read. Graham87 12:15, 31 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-31T12:15:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-10-31T12:15:00.000Z-Bkonrad-2009-10-31T11:35:00.000Z","replies":["c-Graham87-2009-10-31T12:19:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-10-31T12:15:00.000Z","c-Bkonrad-2009-10-31T12:26:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-10-31T12:15:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

As for my step 4, definitely do the history merge up to 15 April 2009 as you said, per this edit summary. Graham87 12:19, 31 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-31T12:19:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Graham87-2009-10-31T12:19:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-10-31T12:15:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

Thanks for the clear explanation. I'd like to give this a try a bit later. I occasionally come across similar situations and would like the get more familiar with how to manage the history merging. older ≠ wiser 12:26, 31 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-31T12:26:00.000Z","author":"Bkonrad","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bkonrad-2009-10-31T12:26:00.000Z-Graham87-2009-10-31T12:15:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"older"}}-->