Words fail me! Geoff ^{Who, me?} 23:24, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-15T23:24:00.000Z","author":"Glane23","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Glane23-2013-11-15T23:24:00.000Z-Big_mess_at_Colon_cleansing","replies":["c-Lukeno94-2013-11-15T23:38:00.000Z-Glane23-2013-11-15T23:24:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-15T23:55:00.000Z-Glane23-2013-11-15T23:24:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Geoff"}}-->

• Dat title though... Oo Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 23:38, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-15T23:38:00.000Z","author":"Lukeno94","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Lukeno94-2013-11-15T23:38:00.000Z-Glane23-2013-11-15T23:24:00.000Z","replies":["c-MastCell-2013-11-15T23:45:00.000Z-Lukeno94-2013-11-15T23:38:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • This is Wikipedia at its most bizarrely and exponentially dysfunctional. A (female) new editor shows up with a bunch of inappopriate, promotional edits. A more established editor offers to help and advocates for her on the article talkpage... while taking advantage of the interaction to hit on the new editor repeatedly and creepily. The way this was handled by DangerMouse is pretty shameful. A reputable volunteer organization would shitcan someone in a heartbeat for that sort of boundary violation. I feel very bad for the new editor - while her content concerns were way off-base, it's appalling that her concerns were used as a pretext to flirt with her. MastCell ^Talk 23:45, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-15T23:45:00.000Z","author":"MastCell","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-MastCell-2013-11-15T23:45:00.000Z-Lukeno94-2013-11-15T23:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• I saw that section, and was reminded to buy fiber pills at Publix. Those are expensive, by the way. Whoa, MastCell--is this handled already? I'm waiting for dinner to warm up so I'm a bit pressed for time. You know the rules: block first, then ban, then ask questions. Drmies (talk) 23:55, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-15T23:55:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-15T23:55:00.000Z-Glane23-2013-11-15T23:24:00.000Z","replies":["c-MastCell-2013-11-16T00:03:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-15T23:55:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • I don't really think it's been handled; I'm involved, so I'm not really free to act as an admin here. It's a little hard to make sense of everything, since neither editor has the clearest communication style, but I think User:Alexbrn's summary in the AN/I thread is pretty thorough. There's more on Alexbrn's talkpage, for instance this, which is worth looking at should you have the time/inclination to get involved. Again, while I think that the new editor came here for the wrong reasons, the reception she got is really disappointing and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. MastCell ^Talk 00:03, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T00:03:00.000Z","author":"MastCell","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-MastCell-2013-11-16T00:03:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-15T23:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T02:39:00.000Z-MastCell-2013-11-16T00:03:00.000Z"]}}-->
    • MastCell, I don't like blocking for level-4 stupidity, and this is the closest I've gotten. I commented at the ANI thread after looking over a couple of the issues and diffs. No doubt there's more that could be said, and perhaps action that could be taken. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 02:39, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T02:39:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T02:39:00.000Z-MastCell-2013-11-16T00:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hey, Drmies, I like the dogs over here! (Men will use any pretext for flirtation. Just sayin' ! I asked an old Wikifriend once why I got hit on so often in email from guys who have never seen a picture of me and have no idea if I weigh 300 lbs or whatever ... he explained to me how guys' imaginations work ... something about it doesn't matter if I really weigh 300 lbs, and that not being the point ... anyway ... could you put up a chocolate lab, pls ??) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:47, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T01:47:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T01:47:00.000Z-Big_mess_at_Colon_cleansing","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T02:39:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T01:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Sorry, I don't do the canine decoration around here. Warrington does. I betcha a lot of "guys" like 300-pound women; I cannot easily recap the conversation I was privy to in the Y today, but the speaker was a 300+ pound woman, and it had something to do with male companions and odd requests by additional male companions. It's weird, this internet thing--I remember getting hit on by some woman from Fresno in one of the old Napster chat rooms. Anyways, if you want to...know what I'm saying...chat a bit...he he he...you can find me on IRC...my handle [is that the word they use for that?] is Dr. Lovemachine... Drmies (talk) 02:39, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T02:39:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T02:39:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T01:47:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
  • Well, I finally caught up there-- see my message below. It wasn't at all funny, and oversight is not done. I hate IRC btw-- don't know what it is, where to find it, how to use it, just know it's the place where abusive blocks and meatpuppetry are cooked up. Glad MastCell cleaned up that mess of an article. Best, 16:03, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

I couldn't remember if I had ever posted here before, so went looking ... and found this. I'm a genius. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:57, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T01:57:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T01:57:00.000Z-Big_mess_at_Colon_cleansing","replies":["c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-17T09:02:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T01:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

I did not hit on that user! And I have told her over, and over, and over what to do! And I complimented on IRC, and she laughed at it, anyway , I am done with the drama, retiring for good from WMF. You can block me or whatever as you please, I have apologized for it you're just making it a bigger scene. Doc James read the emails, and he know what I have done, and what I am talking about. Danger^Mouse (talk) 09:02, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T09:02:00.000Z","author":"IDangerMouse","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-17T09:02:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T01:57:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Danger^Mouse"}}-->

Do you have an interest in Fucking Machines? I personally know Madarax does. If so, you can help out a good article nominee. To tired out, especially after your colon cleansing, you can watch a bunch of people Fuck in the comfort of your own home. After you are done watching, you can help out a featured article nominee. Bgwhite (talk) 03:02, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T03:02:00.000Z","author":"Bgwhite","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bgwhite-2013-11-16T03:02:00.000Z-Help_needed_at_some_fucking_articles","replies":["c-Mandarax-2013-11-16T20:28:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-11-16T03:02:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-16T03:14:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-11-16T03:02:00.000Z","c-Lukeno94-2013-11-18T13:04:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-11-16T03:02:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Well, I did used to listen to The Howard Stern Show, on which every female guest was encouraged to take a ride on the Sybian.... MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 20:28, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T20:28:00.000Z","author":"Mandarax","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mandarax-2013-11-16T20:28:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-11-16T03:02:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• I'm not messing with those machines, but I gave you a free single-byte copy edit on Fuck and that, old fucker, will have to do. Drmies (talk) 03:14, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T03:14:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T03:14:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-11-16T03:02:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cirt-2013-11-16T03:18:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T03:14:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • Thank you Bgwhite and Drmies, for your interest in my recent quality improvement efforts on articles related to freedom of speech, — Cirt (talk) 03:18, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T03:18:00.000Z","author":"Cirt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Cirt-2013-11-16T03:18:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T03:14:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T03:22:00.000Z-Cirt-2013-11-16T03:18:00.000Z"]}}-->
    • Ha, freedom of penetration! Sure thing Cirt; good luck with it. Drmies (talk) 03:22, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T03:22:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T03:22:00.000Z-Cirt-2013-11-16T03:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cirt-2013-11-16T03:23:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T03:22:00.000Z"]}}-->
      • Thank you, — Cirt (talk) 03:23, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T03:23:00.000Z","author":"Cirt","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Cirt-2013-11-16T03:23:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T03:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cullen328-2013-11-17T03:21:00.000Z-Cirt-2013-11-16T03:23:00.000Z"]}}-->
        • OMG, that's an incredibly detailed article! Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:21, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T03:21:00.000Z","author":"Cullen328","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Cullen328-2013-11-17T03:21:00.000Z-Cirt-2013-11-16T03:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ritchie333-2013-11-18T11:05:00.000Z-Cullen328-2013-11-17T03:21:00.000Z"]}}-->

Fuck my old boots, that's one detailed article! Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:05, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T11:05:00.000Z","author":"Ritchie333","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Ritchie333-2013-11-18T11:05:00.000Z-Cullen328-2013-11-17T03:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• In before some jokey IP switches two words around in the section title... (I wasn't tempted at all, honest guv, I wasn't! *looks shifty*) Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 13:04, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T13:04:00.000Z","author":"Lukeno94","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Lukeno94-2013-11-18T13:04:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-11-16T03:02:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I have emailed the entire copy paste of my conversation with that user to Doc James, and Oversight, and I will not longer engage with that user or on that article, moving on, had this discussion with ^Darkwind^ as well, the user got my email on IRC, and I should have stopped somewhere in the e-mail, you will understand it better, once you get hold of it. Danger^Mouse (talk) 12:18, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T12:18:00.000Z","author":"IDangerMouse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T12:18:00.000Z-Hi--how's_your_colon?","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T13:54:00.000Z-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T12:18:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Danger^Mouse"}}-->

• Please don't send it to me: I don't want to read it. The things you outline above are requisite steps, but it is more important to me that you do not allow yourself to get into such situations in the first place. Based on what I know about this case (which is as much as I want to know), I think you should stay away from off-wiki channels of communication about on-wiki stuff: stay out of IRC is my advice. You're not the first one to get into trouble over it, and you won't be the last, but you can make sure it doesn't happen to you again. There's plenty of other chatrooms on the internet, and plenty of other topics to chat about. Drmies (talk) 13:54, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T13:54:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T13:54:00.000Z-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T12:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T14:06:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T13:54:00.000Z"]}}-->

Like I said, I went too deep, won't be repeated. And I have apologized for it.- Danger^Mouse (talk) 14:06, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T14:06:00.000Z","author":"IDangerMouse","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T14:06:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T13:54:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T14:35:00.000Z-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T14:06:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Danger^Mouse"}}-->

Good. Thank you. Mind you, other admins and editors may feel differently: I am speaking for myself here, and I will leave to someone else to decide whether to close the ANI thread. Drmies (talk) 14:35, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T14:35:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T14:35:00.000Z-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T14:06:00.000Z","replies":["c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T15:05:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T14:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

Alright, thank you Drmies, by the way good to see you again, well next time hopefully without any sort of drama on my part. -Danger^Mouse (talk) 15:05, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T15:05:00.000Z","author":"IDangerMouse","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T15:05:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T14:35:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:04:00.000Z-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T15:05:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Danger^Mouse"}}-->

IDangerMouse, Sandy, below, pointed out that you need to go back and make sure you caught all the examples and identified them to an oversighter. I revdeleted one example on Wikipedia talk:Administrators' noticeboard, which needs to be oversighted as well. Please do that as soon as you can, and as thoroughly as you can. Drmies (talk) 18:04, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T18:04:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:04:00.000Z-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T15:05:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I finally took the time to catch up on this, see that it wasn't funny at all, see that MastCell and Doc James cleaned up the article ... and was easily able to find the person's name, which has not been oversighted. Somebody isn't done cleaning up after themselves. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T16:01:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T16:01:00.000Z-Hi--how's_your_colon?","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:33:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T16:01:00.000Z","c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T20:09:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T16:01:00.000Z","c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T20:20:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T16:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Is there anything you'd like me to revdel? (That's all the magic power I have.) Feel free to email, though I'm sort of in and out today. Did you like the new dog? Drmies (talk) 17:33, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T17:33:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:33:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T16:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T17:50:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:33:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • You are shameless !! OK, OK, as if I have nothing better to do, I will go back and find the revdel needs, abut after my last go-round with the oversighters, I'm not doin' that. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:50, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T17:50:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T17:50:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T17:55:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T17:50:00.000Z"]}}-->
    • OK, I emailed you one sample-- there may be more. Duplication section heading, btw. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:55, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T17:55:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T17:55:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T17:50:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:58:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T17:55:00.000Z"]}}-->
      • Guess what I just did.^{[dubious – discuss]} Drmies (talk) 17:58, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T17:58:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:58:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T17:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T18:04:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:58:00.000Z"]}}-->
        • Thanks! Now ... DangerMouse needs to go through all of his contribs, see if there are others, and send all the diffs (including that one) to Oversight. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:04, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T18:04:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T18:04:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:24:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T18:04:00.000Z"]}}-->
          • That's not what I was referring to. :) (Think numbers.) Anyway, see the note above, in which I pinged said DangerMouse. Thanks again for doing my job for me, Sandy. Drmies (talk) 18:24, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T18:24:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:24:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T18:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T18:32:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:24:00.000Z"]}}-->
            • I always think numbers. And I don't get it :/ Lost in Space ... ohwell. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:32, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T18:32:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T18:32:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:24:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T19:08:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T18:32:00.000Z"]}}-->
              • Well, it was a 3 to 4 on that chart. Drmies (talk) 19:08, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T19:08:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T19:08:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T18:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T19:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T19:08:00.000Z"]}}-->
                • <groan> Prove it. No, then again, don't. There's a new trend in my house, for which you are guilty. First, I couldn't sleep last night until the fits of laughter subsided. Second, dh now calls out from the nether regions, "It's a 3 !!!" Isn't that nice. Men will be boys (and they are so attached to their productions ... ) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:22, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T19:22:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T19:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T19:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

thank you both. I couldn't find anything. Going to bed. And I am confused about numbers etc..Danger^Mouse (talk) 20:09, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T20:09:00.000Z","author":"IDangerMouse","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T20:09:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T16:01:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Danger^Mouse"}}-->

Found this >>https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Colon_cleansing&diff=prev&oldid=580329301 Danger^Mouse (talk) 20:20, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T20:20:00.000Z","author":"IDangerMouse","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T20:20:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T16:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:40:00.000Z-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T20:20:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Danger^Mouse"}}-->

Thanks; that's dealt with already. Numbers? Sandy, I'm glad I made such an impact. Tell your dh I'm happy for him. And it's not just boys--Sippi likes to tell stories about a snake that circled the bowl. Drmies (talk) 21:40, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T21:40:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:40:00.000Z-IDangerMouse-2013-11-16T20:20:00.000Z","replies":["c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T21:47:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

curse you, drmies ... I actually spent some real time in a Wilderness Area as a child ... ya know, with real rattlesnakes and shit ... and I have ample experience with outhouses, and phobias about snakes in them. I shall unwatch if you continue to taunt with stories on women's accomplishments. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:47, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T21:47:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-16T21:47:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Over sight >> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=581787387 Thank you Danger^Mouse (talk) 07:36, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T07:36:00.000Z","author":"IDangerMouse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-IDangerMouse-2013-11-23T07:36:00.000Z-Hi--how's_your_colon?","replies":[],"displayName":"Danger^Mouse"}}-->

I was wondering if you'd like to alienate yourself from just about everybody and permanently sour your Wiki experience (and possibly all other aspects of your life) by being an arbitrator for a couple of years. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 17:29, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T17:29:00.000Z","author":"Anthonyhcole","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Anthonyhcole-2013-11-16T17:29:00.000Z-Running?","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:32:00.000Z-Anthonyhcole-2013-11-16T17:29:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Well, if you put it that way... Let's see how I feel tonight. If we lose to Mississippi State it's pretty much soured already. Drmies (talk) 17:32, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T17:32:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:32:00.000Z-Anthonyhcole-2013-11-16T17:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2013-11-16T17:43:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:32:00.000Z","c-Anthonyhcole-2013-11-16T17:44:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

I like the shameless act of flirtation, but beware, Turandot has 3 questions for candidates ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:43, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T17:43:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2013-11-16T17:43:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:32:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Go Bulldogs! --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 17:44, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T17:44:00.000Z","author":"Anthonyhcole","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Anthonyhcole-2013-11-16T17:44:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T17:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:22:00.000Z-Anthonyhcole-2013-11-16T17:44:00.000Z"]}}-->

For shits and giggles I read Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2013/Candidates/Floquenbeam/Questions. That's a lot of questions, even after Floq avoided the hard ones (haha!). Can I just sign my name and say per Floq? (Gerda, I would probably give a very similar answer to yours...) Drmies (talk) 18:22, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T18:22:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:22:00.000Z-Anthonyhcole-2013-11-16T17:44:00.000Z","replies":["c-Secret-2013-11-16T18:44:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

I would love competition :) Secret ^account 18:44, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T18:44:00.000Z","author":"Secret","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Secret-2013-11-16T18:44:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-11-16T19:30:00.000Z-Secret-2013-11-16T18:44:00.000Z"]}}-->

Support the draft-Drmies-movement. (Of course, if you win, you become dead to us all, as Anthony mentioned in the first part. :-)   You can absolutely skip answering the vast series of questions; that will lose you some votes, but this is a horrible dirty job that nobody wants, so that may not matter much, with all the open seats. But my advice is to treat every question as an opportunity: answer them as if they were the question you *wished* had been asked, not necessarily as they *were* asked. <grin> p.s. Okay, it's a ton of work, but you should try to answer all the questions that aren't repetitive... feel free to be terse (grammarz is SO not important heer), and to say "per above" if the same question keeps coming up again and again, o'course. Hope this helps. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 19:30, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T19:30:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-11-16T19:30:00.000Z-Secret-2013-11-16T18:44:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2013-11-16T20:54:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-11-16T19:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

I think I might even appreciate someone who answers "XYZ gave a good answer" with a link to there, saves me reading time and tells me who has similar thoughts ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:54, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T20:54:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2013-11-16T20:54:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-11-16T19:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I think you should consider it. Though I would prefer that you answered at least my questions :) --Rschen7754 21:03, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T21:03:00.000Z","author":"Rschen7754","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rschen7754-2013-11-16T21:03:00.000Z-Running?","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:25:00.000Z-Rschen7754-2013-11-16T21:03:00.000Z","c-Johnbod-2013-11-17T02:47:00.000Z-Rschen7754-2013-11-16T21:03:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-17T22:45:00.000Z-Rschen7754-2013-11-16T21:03:00.000Z","c-Anthonyhcole-2013-11-18T10:04:00.000Z-Rschen7754-2013-11-16T21:03:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Rs"}}-->

• Your questions SUCK, Rschen, though the others suck too. :) Drmies (talk) 21:25, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T21:25:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:25:00.000Z-Rschen7754-2013-11-16T21:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beeblebrox-2013-11-16T21:43:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

When I ran last year I found the tedious mountain of questions that almost nobody actually reads the answers to to be the most annoying part of the entire experience. The field is indeed looking a bit thin, and given recent developments this seems like a good year for "ArbCom outsiders" to be running. Of course as a functionary I would expect preferential treatment if you did get elected. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:43, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T21:43:00.000Z","author":"Beeblebrox","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Beeblebrox-2013-11-16T21:43:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-16T21:50:00.000Z-Beeblebrox-2013-11-16T21:43:00.000Z"]}}-->

The questions are just like the "evidence" presented at ArbCom cases. Nobody bothers to read it, not even the arbitrators, everyone comes with their preconceptions and votes accordingly. Eric Corbett 21:50, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T21:50:00.000Z","author":"Eric Corbett","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-16T21:50:00.000Z-Beeblebrox-2013-11-16T21:43:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:57:00.000Z-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-16T21:50:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Eric"}}-->

I don't know, Eric--I give the Arbs a bit more credit than that. How about I be a refreshingly new candidate who promises to break the system wide open from the inside and really makes a difference, really makes your vote count and your voice heard? Yes! I'm so different from all the others! <hugs puppie> I think I promised puppies to everyone when I ran from the board, and I didn't win that either. Drmies (talk) 21:57, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T21:57:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:57:00.000Z-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-16T21:50:00.000Z","replies":["c-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-16T22:04:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

I don't. You can predict the outcome of pretty much any case based on the arbitrators involved, without troubling yourself by looking at the evidence. Eric Corbett 22:04, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T22:04:00.000Z","author":"Eric Corbett","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-16T22:04:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T21:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2013-11-16T22:30:00.000Z-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-16T22:04:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Eric"}}-->

Drmies, if you would look at evidence you would make THE difference to what I experienced, go for it, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:30, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T22:30:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2013-11-16T22:30:00.000Z-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-16T22:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-Demiurge1000-2013-11-17T02:28:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2013-11-16T22:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

Drmies, stop being so shy about your poor result last time. Man up and stand this time, then everyone will see that fine young men like yourself are more thoughtful than the sillies who pretend to be involved. I certainly didn't think any less of you after the results of the last competition in which you participated. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 02:28, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T02:28:00.000Z","author":"Demiurge1000","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Demiurge1000-2013-11-17T02:28:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2013-11-16T22:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-17T04:14:00.000Z-Demiurge1000-2013-11-17T02:28:00.000Z","c-Rschen7754-2013-11-17T02:33:00.000Z-Demiurge1000-2013-11-17T02:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hey, it wasn't that poor! Wasn't I the next in line? I'm still trying to figure out if I'm hurt over losing or relieved over not winning. But not winning is never fun, of course. I appreciate the note, though, Demiurge--thanks. Drmies (talk) 04:14, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T04:14:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T04:14:00.000Z-Demiurge1000-2013-11-17T02:28:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I think many of the reservations people had about WMF Board were that you only edit the English Wikipedia. That concern is not relevant in this one. --Rschen7754 02:33, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T02:33:00.000Z","author":"Rschen7754","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Rschen7754-2013-11-17T02:33:00.000Z-Demiurge1000-2013-11-17T02:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-17T04:14:00.000Z-Rschen7754-2013-11-17T02:33:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Rs"}}-->

That's entirely possible. But I also got the feeling that there was an inside crowd there, and I'll leave it at that. Drmies (talk) 04:14, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T04:14:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T04:14:00.000Z-Rschen7754-2013-11-17T02:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• I have to say I'd advise against it, for the sake of your sanity, & that of your family, & the contributions we'd lose. Johnbod (talk) 02:47, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T02:47:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Johnbod-2013-11-17T02:47:00.000Z-Rschen7754-2013-11-16T21:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• Floquenbeam, Anthonyhcole, Gerda Arendt, Demiurge1000, Beeblebrox, et al--there's still another day or so to go, and I did draft a nomination, but I think that we have a decent bunch of editors running this time. Plus, I'm pretty busy this coming week, just when I need to answer a bunch of questions. So I think it's best to bow out for this time--and I am doing so in the utmost appreciation of all y'all's sentiments, expressed here and via email. I'll take the time to reflect more carefully on what ArbCom is and does, and what it doesn't do, and whether I can be a net positive next time around. Eric, you never know: things might change for the better. Drmies (talk) 22:45, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T22:45:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T22:45:00.000Z-Rschen7754-2013-11-16T21:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Johnuniq-2013-11-18T00:52:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T22:45:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • It's a shame to lose a good arb, but it's great to keep a good admin. Johnuniq (talk) 00:52, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T00:52:00.000Z","author":"Johnuniq","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Johnuniq-2013-11-18T00:52:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T22:45:00.000Z","replies":["c-Go_Phightins!-2013-11-18T01:20:00.000Z-Johnuniq-2013-11-18T00:52:00.000Z"]}}-->
    • While I respect your decision, it really would be nice to have more than eight candidates running for the eight open slots, and especially if one of them was you. Go Phightins! 01:20, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T01:20:00.000Z","author":"Go Phightins!","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Go_Phightins!-2013-11-18T01:20:00.000Z-Johnuniq-2013-11-18T00:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-Aunva6-2013-11-18T03:00:00.000Z-Go_Phightins!-2013-11-18T01:20:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Go"}}-->
      • besides, we need to have some good candidates for next year... -- Aunva6^{talk - contribs} 03:00, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T03:00:00.000Z","author":"Aunva6","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Aunva6-2013-11-18T03:00:00.000Z-Go_Phightins!-2013-11-18T01:20:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-18T04:06:00.000Z-Aunva6-2013-11-18T03:00:00.000Z"]}}-->
        • You know, that's really nice of you all to say, but I'm still not sure if this is something I want to or can do. And so you have no ground for saying I'd be a good candidate. I'm somewhat surprised that Floquenbeam is running, and I hope that ArbCom isn't as disenchanting as Johnbod and others have suggested. No, I need to do a bit more homework--read the recent cases (yes Gerda) and motions, and figure out what gets accepted and why, and what I think ArbCom is and should be. And the all-important questions: what about Kiefer, and what about civility? (I'm sort of kidding.) Drmies (talk) 04:06, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T04:06:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-18T04:06:00.000Z-Aunva6-2013-11-18T03:00:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I was hoping you could spend your first year in the company of User:Newyorkbrad - I can't think of a better mentor - or holder of corporate memory. (I won't think less of you if you change your mind now and nominate - most people are helpless in the face of my powers of persuasion.) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 10:04, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T10:04:00.000Z","author":"Anthonyhcole","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Anthonyhcole-2013-11-18T10:04:00.000Z-Rschen7754-2013-11-16T21:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-18T15:25:00.000Z-Anthonyhcole-2013-11-18T10:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

Oh, that's a valid point Anthony. I couldn't think of a better one either. But this die has been cast, I'm afraid, given the time of the semester, exacerbated by some incomprehensible scheduling decisions made here. One sometimes gets the feeling that it's always fourth and eighteen in the AU system. Drmies (talk) 15:25, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T15:25:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-18T15:25:00.000Z-Anthonyhcole-2013-11-18T10:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-Johnbod-2013-11-18T15:36:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T15:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

So be it. Perhaps there will be a last minute rush of candidacies, as for the WMF board. We need some suckers, as not all the current lot will get enough support. Johnbod (talk) 15:36, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T15:36:00.000Z","author":"Johnbod","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Johnbod-2013-11-18T15:36:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T15:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beeblebrox-2013-11-19T03:23:00.000Z-Johnbod-2013-11-18T15:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

Despite multiple last-minute additions, I still felt the field was a bit thin, so ....groan... I threw my hat in again. I blame you. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:23, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T03:23:00.000Z","author":"Beeblebrox","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Beeblebrox-2013-11-19T03:23:00.000Z-Johnbod-2013-11-18T15:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Am I too late for breakfast or too early for dessert? Geoff ^{Who, me?} 17:52, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T17:52:00.000Z","author":"Glane23","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Glane23-2013-11-16T17:52:00.000Z-Moorkop","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:07:00.000Z-Glane23-2013-11-16T17:52:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Geoff"}}-->

• Ooooh now that's tasty. With that, you're always right on time. My mom called today. She's visiting this month and wondered if she should bring the Zwarte Piet outfits (I'm sure you get the connection) for the kids that she found on sale somewhere. How do you explain to a Dutch woman what the ins and outs are of dressing up kids, in blackface, in Alabama? Drmies (talk) 18:07, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T18:07:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T18:07:00.000Z-Glane23-2013-11-16T17:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

This article might be interesting to you:

• From Jstor - Journal of Contemporary History review of Bateman's book pp. 673-674

Ealdgyth - Talk 18:11, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T18:11:00.000Z","author":"Ealdgyth","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ealdgyth-2013-11-16T18:11:00.000Z-No_Gun_Ri_Massacre","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-16T22:07:00.000Z-Ealdgyth-2013-11-16T18:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

• That is interesting, thanks, though I really don't want to inject myself in the article. I hope we have "Historiography of X" articles for all events. The Bateman paragraph has an interesting opening sentence: "Perhaps the one area where ordinary Koreans are allowed a role in their history is as victims". Thanks, Drmies (talk) 22:07, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T22:07:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-16T22:07:00.000Z-Ealdgyth-2013-11-16T18:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bbb23-2013-11-16T22:51:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T22:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Oh go ahead and inject yourself. That way the two battling editors would leave me alone. Besides, I have total confidence in your ability to innoculate the article appropriately; you're a quicker study than I am for this sort of thing. BTW, what about having the chocolate cupcakes pastries as the editing picture instead of the chocolate lab?--Bbb23 (talk) 22:51, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T22:51:00.000Z","author":"Bbb23","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bbb23-2013-11-16T22:51:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-16T22:07:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-17T01:33:00.000Z-Bbb23-2013-11-16T22:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Hold on now--they're not cupcakes, since they are filled with whipped cream. It doesn't get much more decadent than that. What Ealdgyth sent is a review article, which is what Wikipedia editors don't read (or use) often enough: it's the kind of article that will help establish whether something is an RS or not, and in this case the Bateman book fits the bill. Drmies (talk) 01:33, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T01:33:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T01:33:00.000Z-Bbb23-2013-11-16T22:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bbb23-2013-11-17T02:13:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T01:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

• I don't believe I have access to JSTOR.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:13, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T02:13:00.000Z","author":"Bbb23","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Bbb23-2013-11-17T02:13:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T01:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Sheesh, will they leave my chocolate lab alone already ???? [1] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:15, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T03:15:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-17T03:15:00.000Z-No_Gun_Ri_Massacre","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-17T03:32:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-17T03:15:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-17T03:37:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-17T03:15:00.000Z"],"displayName":"[1]"}}-->

• Hey, I was having a hard time finding nice choc lab shots--Mr. Wetso was the best I could do. Yours are cute! Bbb, I know (well, I figured you were some kind of corporate dude or dudette), and if you're ever interested I'll be glad to send it to you. Hint for all you young people not even thinking about middle age: now's the time to start realizing that it's history you've always wanted to study, and the best way to study history is to study historiography. Drmies (talk) 03:32, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T03:32:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T03:32:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-17T03:15:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• Also, put the fucking laptop down and turn on ESPN. Fourth quarter, dude. We're only up by 13. Drmies (talk) 03:37, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T03:37:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T03:37:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-17T03:15:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Enough with the flirting. Down, boy, down!

Are you in the mood to sort out a lead for William Beach Thomas and perhaps tighten up the prose a little? You know that I am crap at this but no worries if you'd rather not. I've got a few journals to re-read but there aren't likely to be any many additions/removals to the text now. - Sitush (talk) 22:28, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-16T22:28:00.000Z","author":"Sitush","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sitush-2013-11-16T22:28:00.000Z-Lead_section","replies":["c-Cullen328-2013-11-17T03:50:00.000Z-Sitush-2013-11-16T22:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well, I took a crack at copy editing the lead. Please revert at will. I detect a disturbing undertone in the article, as if a Wikipedian wants to portray the fellow in a bad light. But perhaps it is Cullen328 who is the biased one. Here in California, we call a guy who advocates creation of national parks, protection of rural beauty, and appreciation of nature a "liberal". Perhaps in the United Kingdom, the correct term is "reactionary". Perhaps. But I see a bit of an agenda here. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:50, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T03:50:00.000Z","author":"Cullen328","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Cullen328-2013-11-17T03:50:00.000Z-Sitush-2013-11-16T22:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-17T04:12:00.000Z-Cullen328-2013-11-17T03:50:00.000Z"]}}-->

I think you should read the rest of the article, Cullen, and afterward, and when you read the historians who studied the love of nature that was so important, you'll see that "reactionary" is in fact objectively true for cats like that. Besides, there is a reference in the article (published by Manchester UP) which I'll accept on good faith but, if you like, I'll get the book through ILL and get more specific.

You're thinking of people like Muir and all that, and that's fine, but in Europe that kind of love of nature takes place in a very different political context: it is essentially reactionary. "Love of nature" doesn't become "progressive" in Europe until--I don't know, those naked boys doing gymnastics in Nazi Germany? Your note on national parks is instructive as well: I don't know how old the concept of national park is in Europe, but it's newer than and nothing like the Roosevelt idea in all its size and beauty and grandeur. "Love of the countryside" for someone like Beach Thomas is not necessarily love of the great wild Rocky Mountains--it's more likely to be love of an English countryside in which you could go hunt foxes while peons served you sherry. Correct me if I'm wrong, Sitush. Drmies (talk) 04:12, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T04:12:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T04:12:00.000Z-Cullen328-2013-11-17T03:50:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cullen328-2013-11-17T05:23:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T04:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

I did read the rest of the article and I understand the points you are making. On the other hand, William Morris, one of the leading 19th century English socialists, advocated (it seems to me) somewhat similar ideas about nature, preservation and rural living. I am somewhat familiar with the history and inherent limitations of national parks in the UK, since that is closely associated with the history of rock climbing and British mountaineering. I've never previously heard that described as a "reactionary" movement, but perhaps I'm wrong. The Lake District and Peak District come to mind. So, I would like to see some excellent sourcing of the term "reactionary" which I consider to be highly POV terminology requiring excellent sourcing. Repetition intentional. Perhaps he really was a reactionary. If so, I should be convinced of that after reading the article, and I'm not so far. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:23, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T05:23:00.000Z","author":"Cullen328","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Cullen328-2013-11-17T05:23:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T04:12:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sitush-2013-11-17T11:55:00.000Z-Cullen328-2013-11-17T05:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks, both, for the work on the lead. That gave me the necessary impetus. I'll see if I can firm up the rural stuff - I have a house in the countryside and much prefer it to life in the city, I used to reguarly walk up to 40 miles a day with a tent on my back and I've done my share of climbing the wrong way up the big rocks of Britain. I think it is safe to say that I'm not deliberately skewing things against the man, although the sources may be. His appears to have been an paternalist romanticism and it fits perfectly well with, for example, those who mourned the passing of the English country house in the inter-war years: you cannot easily underestimate the long-term socio-economic and political effects of WWI. He seems very much to have been in the mode of Thomas Gray's Elegy in a Country Churchyard when the reality was nearer to Goldsmith's The Deserted Village. Oh, and he did write about fox hunting! - Sitush (talk) 11:55, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T11:55:00.000Z","author":"Sitush","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Sitush-2013-11-17T11:55:00.000Z-Cullen328-2013-11-17T05:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sitush-2013-11-17T13:04:00.000Z-Sitush-2013-11-17T11:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've just tried to get a full view of this (around p. 100) using a proxy into the US version of GBooks. It still shows snippet view - can either of you see it in full? - Sitush (talk) 13:04, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T13:04:00.000Z","author":"Sitush","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Sitush-2013-11-17T13:04:00.000Z-Sitush-2013-11-17T11:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-17T15:16:00.000Z-Sitush-2013-11-17T13:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

No, nothing but snippets. If you like I can try and get something through ILL, but I'll need article title and inclusive page numbers. Drmies (talk) 15:16, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T15:16:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T15:16:00.000Z-Sitush-2013-11-17T13:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sitush-2013-11-17T16:00:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T15:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm not sure how reliable it would be but it appears in part to be a critique of Massingham vs Thomas. There is a copy for sale in Ireland at the moment but I'm not forking out for it, so if you'd be prepared to try ILL then the details are Musty, John (March 1985). "H. J. Massingham and W. Beach Thomas". Antiquarian Book Monthly Review. 12 (3 (Issue 131)): 94–102.. I am looking at buying A War of Individuals: Bloomsbury Attitudes to the Great War (2002), Jonathan Atkin - some people want £80+ for it but there is an Abebooks seller with 17 copies @ £5 each - might be a killing to be had there but I'm no speculator, so one copy will do me! - Sitush (talk) 16:00, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T16:00:00.000Z","author":"Sitush","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Sitush-2013-11-17T16:00:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T15:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Cullen, does the following quote help? It is from p. 21 of the cited Hemmings source:

The roots of the rural revival [movement] reach back to the end of [WW1]. The economy of the English countryside underwent a profound change between 1918 and 1928; one-quarter of English agricultural land changed ownership. Between the end of the war and 1920 alone, nearly 8 million acres were sold, signifying the largest-scale transfer of lands since the dissolution of the monasteries. While some attributed this loss of rural stability to the 'lost generation' of officers from the land-owning classes wiped out in the war, the less mythical but more likely cause involved the imposition of new and severe death duties combined with a depression in the agricultural economy. Within this economic climate, which fostered political debates about the merits of land nationalisation, rural revivalists mobilised their deeply nostalgic response. The English countryside could only be saved by the restoration of the village community. The socio-economic stability of this treasured social unit could be ensured by the revival of the great landlord estates or even the return of the peasantry, a virtuous group of imagined tenant-labourers who admired, without envying, their lords' wealth. While the pace of land exchange slowed in the 1930s and 1940s, the rural revival movement gathered strength with the threat and realisation of the renewal of modern war in 1939.

I'm wondering whether we have an article somewhere about this movement - it was pretty much a version of organicism. Their point was, in part, that the new landowners etc were speculators and not honour-bound custodians of the land. Beach Thomas even claimed that some land had become "prairie" because the new owners felt no duty to maintain it (someone, somewhere pointed out that he was being hyperbolic in his choice of adjective). - Sitush (talk) 17:11, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T17:11:00.000Z","author":"Sitush","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sitush-2013-11-17T17:11:00.000Z-Lead_section","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-17T21:19:00.000Z-Sitush-2013-11-17T17:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

• In just ten years, so much change. I ordered your article. Drmies (talk) 21:19, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T21:19:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T21:19:00.000Z-Sitush-2013-11-17T17:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sitush-2013-11-18T09:56:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T21:19:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 09:56, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T09:56:00.000Z","author":"Sitush","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Sitush-2013-11-18T09:56:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T21:19:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cullen328-2013-11-19T06:31:00.000Z-Sitush-2013-11-18T09:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you for the interesting quote about the rural revival movement, Sitush, which is illuminating but in my view, doesn't support the usage of the term "reactionary" in this biography. Perhaps that is because I view the word "reactionary" as judgmental and highly POV, so I would prefer to see it referenced to more than one highly reliable source, and preferably in a quotation from a source instead of in Wikipedia's voice. I've done my own (probably inept) Google search for a source calling him a reactionary and have thusfar failed to find one. As for someone, somewhere accusing him of being hyperbolic in his use of the word "prairie", I would like to know more about the British connotations of that word in this fellow's professional lifetime, but even that nugget doesn't convince me. To be clear, I do readily accept the possibility that he may have been what in my opinion was a reactionary. Maybe he said "wog" and mocked Ghandi and wished Cornwallis had never surrendered, and that every building in Washington had been burned during the War of 1812, not just the White House. All I want is good solid convincing sourcing in a Wikipedia article, not what seems to me to be inference in Wikipedia's voice. Is that too much to ask? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:31, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T06:31:00.000Z","author":"Cullen328","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Cullen328-2013-11-19T06:31:00.000Z-Sitush-2013-11-18T09:56:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Did Afra got out of the prison? Oh, Mies that place is closed, Konditorei in Lund, across from the church but look at this. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvilleken Warrington (talk) 14:36, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T14:36:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T14:36:00.000Z-Afra_and_an_ancient_tree","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-17T15:26:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T14:36:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T16:20:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T14:36:00.000Z","c-Yngvadottir-2013-11-17T16:57:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T14:36:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T14:36:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Warrington"}}-->

• Wow. Let's translate that for the English wiki. Afra, unrepentant, died of old age and you can find her in the archive. Her final words were, unsurprisingly, "woof--let me get at that cat..." followed by "screw a bunch of Norwegians". Drmies (talk) 15:26, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T15:26:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T15:26:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T14:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• Yes, let's translate that for the English wiki. And possibly a new DYK too. And you need a new puppy, imediately! well you skrue that puppy, as a Novegian would say. Hafspajen (talk) 16:20, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T16:20:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T16:20:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T14:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Rumskulla oak begun. Yngvadottir (talk) 16:57, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T16:57:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2013-11-17T16:57:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T14:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-Thomas.W-2013-11-17T17:45:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-11-17T16:57:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T19:42:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-11-17T16:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

I added a snippet about the oak being the location for the sex scenes in I Am Curious (Yellow) (with proper references, of course). We wouldn't want to leave that little bit out, would we? Thomas.W ^{talk to me} 17:45, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T17:45:00.000Z","author":"Thomas.W","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Thomas.W-2013-11-17T17:45:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-11-17T16:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T17:51:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-17T17:45:00.000Z","c-Yngvadottir-2013-11-17T18:55:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-17T17:45:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Very good everybody! Well done! Mies, maybe you would prefer this one instead? Hafspajen (talk) 17:51, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T17:51:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T17:51:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-17T17:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Yes, some good collaboration there, though I wish these municipalities would leave their pages up where they can be found. Those who still do DYK, feel free :-) Yngvadottir (talk) 18:55, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T18:55:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2013-11-17T18:55:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-17T17:45:00.000Z","replies":["c-Thomas.W-2013-11-17T19:23:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-11-17T18:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

"DYK ... that the sex scenes in the controversial 1967 film I Am Curious (Yellow) where shot inside the Rumskulla oak, an oak tree that is more than 1,000 years old?" Thomas.W ^{talk to me} 19:23, 17 November 2013 (UTC) (unashamedly pushing my own minor contribution to the article...)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T19:23:00.000Z","author":"Thomas.W","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Thomas.W-2013-11-17T19:23:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-11-17T18:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Mmm. I like that! Silly edit! Hafspajen (talk) 19:42, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T19:42:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T19:42:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-11-17T16:57:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Sorry, that pug was too ugly. All this happened while I was at the dog park, giving Sadie a bath? Drmies (talk) 20:54, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T14:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T21:13:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z","c-Sagaciousphil-2013-11-17T21:20:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-18T13:29:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-18T15:21:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-18T15:35:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Oh, well bad luck for the dog. Only a half a day spent in the light of fame. Hafspajen (talk) 21:13, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T21:13:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-17T21:13:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The DYK nomination's been done BUT I need Mandarax to drop by and sort the credits on it; I added Hafspajen as it was his idea - maybe Drmies should also be added as it originated on this talk page? Now I'm off to do some real work! SagaciousPhil - Chat 21:20, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T21:20:00.000Z","author":"Sagaciousphil","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Sagaciousphil-2013-11-17T21:20:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z","replies":["c-Mandarax-2013-11-17T21:32:00.000Z-Sagaciousphil-2013-11-17T21:20:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hehe, I had seen the note on the nom asking someone to do it, and I took care of it, immediately after which I saw the notification that you'd mentioned me here. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:32, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T21:32:00.000Z","author":"Mandarax","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Mandarax-2013-11-17T21:32:00.000Z-Sagaciousphil-2013-11-17T21:20:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sagaciousphil-2013-11-17T21:45:00.000Z-Mandarax-2013-11-17T21:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you! Not only an excellent, prompt service but also done with a smile - the customer service on this page is superb ... feel free to change the image I submitted with the nom, some of the others in the article might re-produce better! SagaciousPhil - Chat 21:45, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T21:45:00.000Z","author":"Sagaciousphil","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Sagaciousphil-2013-11-17T21:45:00.000Z-Mandarax-2013-11-17T21:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-17T22:37:00.000Z-Sagaciousphil-2013-11-17T21:45:00.000Z"]}}-->

Don't y'all even think about adding me, though I am more than pleased to be a facilitator. Drmies (talk) 22:37, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T22:37:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-17T22:37:00.000Z-Sagaciousphil-2013-11-17T21:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Some Norvegian hippes, you told me that you have not seen any of them since the 80's here they are, https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck_for_Forest. Hafspajen (talk) 13:29, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T13:29:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-18T13:29:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

  

• That's some trailer. I don't think I want to see Beardman fuck for forests. You Scandinavians are weird; no wonder Afra barked at that dude. Drmies (talk) 15:21, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T15:21:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-18T15:21:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Non nobis solum, sed omnibus. You see, dogs has good deeper realization about the true nature of humans. But Eric had also his points. Mind we Swedes are only bombing the Russians with teddybears, se here. NallebombningHafspajen (talk) 15:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T15:35:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-18T15:35:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-17T20:54:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

	The Barnstar of Good Humor
	This made me laugh! Why, could it be such a Sheldon? Sam Sailor Sing 18:30, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-17T18:30:00.000Z","author":"Sam Sailor","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sam_Sailor-2013-11-17T18:30:00.000Z-A_barnstar_for_you!","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-18T03:46:00.000Z-Sam_Sailor-2013-11-17T18:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Wait--are you saying the person was calling me a monkey? And I had fathered Gimili I think I'd know. Drmies (talk) 03:46, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T03:46:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-18T03:46:00.000Z-Sam_Sailor-2013-11-17T18:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I was all set to take credit for two conjectures that I clearly internalized from Casanova's article last time I read in 2008 or so. Luckily these aren't the point of my article, but you saved me from getting some egg on my face.  davidiad { t } 13:34, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T13:34:00.000Z","author":"Davidiad","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Davidiad-2013-11-18T13:34:00.000Z-Thank_you!","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-18T15:22:00.000Z-Davidiad-2013-11-18T13:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Glad to be of service, sir. I thought of you last night when I got my one special beer out of the fridge--I had accidentally bought a Nocturnum instead of a Tremens! Good thing it was good. Drmies (talk) 15:22, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T15:22:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-18T15:22:00.000Z-Davidiad-2013-11-18T13:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Davidiad-2013-11-18T18:01:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T15:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

• You bet that stuff's good. It's actually the lady's favorite beer now, which is funny because she used to be able to tolerate only low-alcohol American mega-brewery "lagers". They have a holiday Delirium out that's pretty festive, but not really to my liking.  davidiad { t } 18:01, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T18:01:00.000Z","author":"Davidiad","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Davidiad-2013-11-18T18:01:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T15:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-19T03:05:00.000Z-Davidiad-2013-11-18T18:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

• You got a classy lady. Are you buying her a Lexus for Christmas? Drmies (talk) 03:05, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T03:05:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-19T03:05:00.000Z-Davidiad-2013-11-18T18:01:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

...can you please take a look at these threads: [2], [3], [4]? Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:09, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T17:09:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-18T17:09:00.000Z-If_you_have_a_bit_of_time...","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-18T17:15:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-18T17:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

Some more background here. It's not the content dispute that's my concern - there was a clear consensus about that - but the behavior of the editor, Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:15, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T17:15:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-18T17:15:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-18T17:09:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-18T17:31:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-18T17:15:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-18T17:40:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-18T17:15:00.000Z"]}}-->

Haha, your comma conveys meaning you probably didn't intend. Drmies (talk) 17:31, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T17:31:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-18T17:31:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-18T17:15:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Left a note. Drmies (talk) 17:40, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T17:40:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-18T17:40:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-18T17:15:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-18T18:51:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T17:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

Oh, I wish you hadn't made that final revert. Drmies (talk) 18:51, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T18:51:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-18T18:51:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T17:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T00:52:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T18:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

You are, of course, completely correct.

Incidentally, I never claimed that the editor was making bad edits, just that he was following me, as he clearly was. If every time you open a new door, the same person is in the room, it hardly matters that he's dusting off your books in the living room the first time, and vacuuming your office carpet the second time, and making what smells like a yummy lasagna in the kitchen the third time, it's the fact that they are there that's creepy. Every time I turned around he'd pop up on my watchlist, on a article I'd just edited. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:52, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T00:52:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T00:52:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T18:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-19T00:59:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T00:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hmm. Well, if you put it that way. (With ricotta or bechamel sauce? there is a wrong answer.) Well, let's hope that there will be plenty of sunlight between your edit histories. Drmies (talk) 00:59, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T00:59:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-19T00:59:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T00:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T01:35:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-19T00:59:00.000Z","c-Epicgenius-2013-11-19T01:17:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-19T00:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

(With intense fear of answering incorrectly) Ricotta, mozzarella, and grated paremsan and romano. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:35, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T01:35:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T01:35:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-19T00:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-19T23:37:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T01:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Wrong. Bechamel sauce. Always. Drmies (talk) 23:37, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T23:37:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-19T23:37:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T01:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Incidentially, this editor has had a history of edit-warring and generally being uncooperative; see his block log for details.
In reality, I was never insulting or harassing BMK. Basically, this editor is just making mountain out of a molehill. Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 01:17, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T01:17:00.000Z","author":"Epicgenius","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Epicgenius-2013-11-19T01:17:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-19T00:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-19T01:25:00.000Z-Epicgenius-2013-11-19T01:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

I am very familiar with BMK's block log, and many's the time that I've been tempted to put the poor guy out of his misery. He just keeps coming back, like zombies or a bad penny. For the record, Epicgenius, you've been on my radar too today, at ANEW, purely by chance. I'm not sure why you reported 63.100.172.20 and not CanadianLinuxUser, or why you didn't check to see whether the IP was reported elsewhere already (they were, at AIV), or whether maybe they were correct in their edits and were incorrectly reverted. I think you should have a look at that section. Drmies (talk) 01:25, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T01:25:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-19T01:25:00.000Z-Epicgenius-2013-11-19T01:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T01:51:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-19T01:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

Epicgenius has been blocked 24 hours for edit-warring on my talk page, where he's been asked not to post, but before that happened, he did it again. 200 West Street is an article he hasn't edited since May. I edited it, and he's the very next edit [5], with an edit summary suggestion that I shouldn't be "an asshole", which I actually don't understand because my edit on that article had nothing to do with him. (I had added a hatnote to the article two weeks ago, and he changed it from plain text to a template. Is it that I'm an "asshole" because I didn't use a template? I don't get it. My edit immediately before his was reverting a number change with no change of source, always a sign of possible sneaky number vandalism. Am I an "asshole" because of that?) Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:51, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T01:51:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T01:51:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-19T01:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-19T02:41:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T01:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

I don't know why you'd be an asshole, BMK. I hope they'll stay away from you--and vice versa of course. Can we let this go now and see if there's improvement ("daylight") between the two of you in the next few weeks? Drmies (talk) 02:41, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T02:41:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-19T02:41:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T01:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T03:03:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-19T02:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yep, fine with me. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:03, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T03:03:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T03:03:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-19T02:41:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T21:38:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T03:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well, I really did intend that, but I got sucked it again, since Epicgenius made several hundred edits today using his alternate account User:Epicfailure 2, after taking steps to remove the connection between the accounts. Then he edited his own user page with a third account User:Ef alt, removing the connection between accounts, with an edit summary that said (paraphrasing) "Stop f***** lying, I'm not Epicgenius." The thing is, I have the diffs where Epicgenius affirmed that he was Epicfailure 2 in order to get rollback for that account, and the diffs where he affirmed that he was Ef alt to get that account confirmed.

This has all been reported to Bwilkins, who blocked him, and EdJohnston, who protected his talk page after the self-vandalism. (Ed didn't know it was Epicgenius doing it to himself, of course), so there's nothing I'm asking you to do, I'm just here to apologize for not staying out of it when I said I would - but his wierd behavior sucked me back into it again, which I already regret. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:38, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T21:38:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T21:38:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T03:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-19T23:28:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T21:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

What's funny is that I saw some Epicfailure edits go by on Recent changes and was wondering if it was the same person. Guess that question's answered now. Carry on, Drmies (talk) 23:28, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-19T23:28:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-19T23:28:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-19T21:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Drmies. Thank you for your help with this this dispute. Unfortunately there's still a little remaining fallout. Prior to being blocked, one of this editor's socks engaged in a little extracurricular tit-for-tat with me over at Americans for Peace and Tolerance, an otherwise extremely quiet article. Now a brand-new editor has reverted me on the same page while attempting to out me in the edit comment. This might have been done in good faith in ignorance of WP:OUTING, or there might be a WP:SOCK/WP:BE/WP:HARASSMENT issue. Unfortunately it's impossible to know for sure, given the use of proxy servers. There is already some behavioral evidence for that, though it's not conclusive given the new account's brief editing history. In any case I have no appetite for confrontation and possibly false accusation. I'm just hoping you can help me erase the attempted outing. I read somewhere that's possible, though I've never dealt with this sort of issue before. Thanks in advance. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 18:32, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T18:32:00.000Z","author":"DrFleischman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DrFleischman-2013-11-18T18:32:00.000Z-Attempted_outing","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-18T19:02:00.000Z-DrFleischman-2013-11-18T18:32:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Dr. Fleischman"}}-->

• Some kind soul already oversighted it. Editor is blocked. Carry on Dr. Fleischman, and my apologies for the inconvenience. Drmies (talk) 19:02, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T19:02:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-18T19:02:00.000Z-DrFleischman-2013-11-18T18:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-DrFleischman-2013-11-18T19:12:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T19:02:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks to both you and Yngvadottir. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 19:12, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T19:12:00.000Z","author":"DrFleischman","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-DrFleischman-2013-11-18T19:12:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T19:02:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Dr. Fleischman"}}-->

I just saw. It is indeed a mess. I did not realize it when I saw the AIV report. Thank you for fixing the article, but am unsure on what is next here. Neither the IP nor CanadianLinuxUser had been warned of 3RR so I am unsure what is the proper response other than a stern warning. Blocking LinuxUser now may not be fair as the EW has stopped. I considered now unblocking the IP and warning then saw they had already requested and been declined. I added a PageNotice to the article. Hopefully this will help in the future, or at least make a case for further blocking after they blatantly disregard it. What next? -- Alexf^(talk) 23:30, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T23:30:00.000Z","author":"Alexf","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Alexf-2013-11-18T23:30:00.000Z-Belen_case","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-18T23:37:00.000Z-Alexf-2013-11-18T23:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Ha, while you posted this I made a terrible decision: I blocked CLU, and then unblocked both of them. Please see the ANEW board for more extensive discussion. Thanks Alex, Drmies (talk) 23:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T23:37:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-18T23:37:00.000Z-Alexf-2013-11-18T23:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Alexf-2013-11-18T23:50:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T23:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

Posted there. Thx for the HU. -- Alexf^(talk) 23:50, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-18T23:50:00.000Z","author":"Alexf","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Alexf-2013-11-18T23:50:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-18T23:37:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

MIES, could you please have a look at the PERSONAL section in Henk Timmer (footballer)? Just provide a translation for the first source (seems like the same verb of REF#2 in another tense, but i'm not going to bet on it of course) if you please.

If the dates on said sources are correct (2011, 2012), funny they only married then (and by the way, did they marry twice in one year? Must be really in love!), because that piece of information has been in his article since 2009 at least.

Thanks in advance with whatever you can provide (aquatic poetry is what i am seeing above as i write these words, majestic pose, or should i say "pawse"?), regards from Portugal --AL (talk) 00:46, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T00:46:00.000Z","author":"Always Learning","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T00:46:00.000Z-Them_lovebirds","replies":["c-Yngvadottir-2013-11-20T01:08:00.000Z-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T00:46:00.000Z"],"displayName":"AL"}}-->

(talk page stalker) This was within my limited competence. "going to marry" vs. "married". And the 1st says they haven't set a date while the 2nd has stuff about her strapless wedding gown. Yngvadottir (talk) 01:08, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T01:08:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2013-11-20T01:08:00.000Z-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T00:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Thank you kind sir/ma'am, whistle anytime you need anything wiki-wise! --AL (talk) 01:24, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T01:24:00.000Z","author":"Always Learning","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T01:24:00.000Z-Them_lovebirds","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-20T03:09:00.000Z-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T01:24:00.000Z"],"displayName":"AL"}}-->

• Aww you two, glad y'all could help each other. VASCO, you know what a Dutch oven is? My seven-year old apparently learned how to make them, on the couch, sitting next to me covered with a blanket, watching Chopped. Drmies (talk) 03:09, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T03:09:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T03:09:00.000Z-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T01:24:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Nope, what is it? If it's a sweet i want to know about that one! --AL (talk) 04:40, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T04:40:00.000Z","author":"Always Learning","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T04:40:00.000Z-Them_lovebirds","replies":["c-Kelapstick-2013-11-20T11:00:00.000Z-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T04:40:00.000Z"],"displayName":"AL"}}-->

• Speechless. Is that also a Niederlanshiche term? Drmies, you're a real parent if you're posting that. My cat Tinsel has perfected the recipe, by the way.  davidiad { t }
  • I believe CoM created that article. I can't find a source to reference it as the "Newfie Gas Chamber", unfortunately. --kelapstick^{(on the run)} 11:00, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T11:00:00.000Z","author":"Kelapstick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kelapstick-2013-11-20T11:00:00.000Z-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T04:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-20T15:15:00.000Z-Kelapstick-2013-11-20T11:00:00.000Z"]}}-->
    • Yes he did, as Dutch oven (fart chamber). Got moved to Dutch oven (practical joke). Then it got redirected to Flatulence humor, with a certain loss of material. I'm cleaning it up some. Drmies (talk) 15:15, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T15:15:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T15:15:00.000Z-Kelapstick-2013-11-20T11:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kelapstick-2013-11-21T23:41:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T15:15:00.000Z"]}}-->
      • I recall moving the page from (prank), and wondering how specific we needed to be in disambigution, and how many different types of fart chamber there actually are. As it turns out, I have quite a few reverts on that page (I quite enjoy my edit summary on that particular one). --kelapstick^(bainuu) 23:41, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T23:41:00.000Z","author":"Kelapstick","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Kelapstick-2013-11-21T23:41:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T15:15:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Epic pail on my fart, i mean Fail on my Part... --AL (talk) 16:48, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T16:48:00.000Z","author":"Always Learning","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T16:48:00.000Z-Them_lovebirds","replies":["c-Kelapstick-2013-11-21T23:41:00.000Z-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T16:48:00.000Z"],"displayName":"AL"}}-->

• Well played AL, well played. :) --kelapstick^(bainuu) 23:41, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T23:41:00.000Z","author":"Kelapstick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kelapstick-2013-11-21T23:41:00.000Z-Always_Learning-2013-11-20T16:48:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks mate, this page sure is a "gas" most of the time, lots of good spirits flowing. --AL (talk) 00:00, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T00:00:00.000Z","author":"Always Learning","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Always_Learning-2013-11-22T00:00:00.000Z-Them_lovebirds","replies":[],"displayName":"AL"}}-->

Drmies, you have mail, and though I know it is your typical policy not to conduct wiki-business through email, this is somewhat of an extenuating circumstance. Thank you in advance for your assistance. Go Phightins! 04:36, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T04:36:00.000Z","author":"Go Phightins!","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Go_Phightins!-2013-11-20T04:36:00.000Z-Extremely_sensitive_admin_request","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-20T04:41:00.000Z-Go_Phightins!-2013-11-20T04:36:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Go"}}-->

• Right back atcha. Drmies (talk) 04:41, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T04:41:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T04:41:00.000Z-Go_Phightins!-2013-11-20T04:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

He hasn't misbehaved for almost a whole day now, presumably because of this. Cute.  Mr.choppers | ✎  04:33, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T04:33:00.000Z","author":"Mr.choppers","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-20T04:33:00.000Z-German_stalker_vandal","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-20T04:48:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-20T04:33:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Mr.choppers\u00a0|"}}-->

• OK, so you got involved in a German ArbCom case? Hold on while I find a barnstar to put on your page--a barnstar with big, hairy balls. Drmies (talk) 04:48, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T04:48:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T04:48:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-20T04:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Lukeno94-2013-11-20T14:09:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T04:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Well, it saves me from going beyond 9000RR to combat them, at any rate. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 14:09, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T14:09:00.000Z","author":"Lukeno94","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Lukeno94-2013-11-20T14:09:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T04:48:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-20T15:09:00.000Z-Lukeno94-2013-11-20T14:09:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T15:27:00.000Z-Lukeno94-2013-11-20T14:09:00.000Z","c-Thomas.W-2013-11-20T15:37:00.000Z-Lukeno94-2013-11-20T14:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Well, we'll see. Hafspajen, DYK that Mr.choppers here is Swedish also? Y'all are taking over the world. And he's in Skane! Which any decent Swede will denounce as flat and boring! Drmies (talk) 15:09, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T15:09:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T15:09:00.000Z-Lukeno94-2013-11-20T14:09:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• MMmmm. Do not put a curse on the land, Doctor. Yes, it is flat, in an exciting way, somehow. Och hur står det till, får jag gratulera? Det var inte illa, Mr.choppers. Hafspajen (talk) 15:27, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T15:27:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T15:27:00.000Z-Lukeno94-2013-11-20T14:09:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• Well, Dr, I beg to differ, based on my own impression of Skåne (which BTW is slightly more than one quarter the size of the Netherlands, a country that is "flat and boring"). Skåne is not flat and boring but has a very varied landscape. Small parts of it are flat but not even those are boring. Linneaus wrote that "Skåne is a piece of land that has been attached to Sweden so that the Swedes can see what the rest of Europe looks like", and there's a lot of truth in that. Thomas.W ^{talk to me} 15:37, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T15:37:00.000Z","author":"Thomas.W","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Thomas.W-2013-11-20T15:37:00.000Z-Lukeno94-2013-11-20T14:09:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Thomas, your begging is denied. You know of course that Linnaeus spent time in the Netherlands, and that's not good for anyone's brain. And your comments about the motherland, them's fighting words. You know I'm an admin, right? I could block you right fucking now for this personal insult. Ha! (That's a nice quote, by the way. Skane is indeed very different, and if you're on a bicycle you quickly find out that it's not as flat as you wanted--especially with that constant wind.) Drmies (talk) 15:48, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T15:48:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T15:48:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• (edit conflict) Ah, ze Germans again... From what I've seen at the arbcom page over there, it has only just begun. But congrats to Mr.choppers for jumping the train. De728631 (talk) 15:40, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T15:40:00.000Z","author":"De728631","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-De728631-2013-11-20T15:40:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-20T15:49:00.000Z-De728631-2013-11-20T15:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

• De, are they interested at all in what that cat has been doing in here? I suppose they know, but would a note from a respected admin like yourself help at all? And how does the German ArbCom compare to ours? Drmies (talk) 15:49, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T15:49:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T15:49:00.000Z-De728631-2013-11-20T15:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-De728631-2013-11-20T16:08:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T15:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

• So far there's only one arb dealing with the case. They're trying to find out what happened at Commons and why Flow92 was blocked there (socking and whatnot), but the English WP has not yet been discussed. The difference between the arbcoms at EN and DE.wiki seems to be that the German arbs will only consider input by involved parties. Any outsiders commenting on the main case page are either reverted or will get treated as involved as well. That said, I've never cared to dig into these bureaucratic levels of the German WP. De728631 (talk) 16:08, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T16:08:00.000Z","author":"De728631","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-De728631-2013-11-20T16:08:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T15:49:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Well, well, Doctor Mies, are you harrasing now the vandlas and the scanians? Don't you know that all Skåne-people are secretly and passionately in love with Skåne-land? Of course nobody will admit that, but there it is... It is kind of an invisible and secret wasps-nest. I am not at all surprised about our friend Thomas.W's hars words. I could have predicted it, if you would asked me in advance. Hafspajen (talk) 16:27, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T16:27:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:27:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-De728631-2013-11-20T16:55:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Now we just need to invite some Danish users to tell you that Skåne is still just a renegade province, and the fun can commence! De728631 (talk) 16:55, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T16:55:00.000Z","author":"De728631","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-De728631-2013-11-20T16:55:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:27:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• They would just say, living in Skåne gives one the quality of greatness, whether physical, moral, intellectual, metaphysical, aesthetic, spiritual or artistic. Hafspajen (talk) 16:59, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T16:59:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:59:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-De728631-2013-11-20T17:07:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:59:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-20T17:46:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:59:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T17:51:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Hahah. Skål! De728631 (talk) 17:07, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T17:07:00.000Z","author":"De728631","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-De728631-2013-11-20T17:07:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:59:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• You know that no Hollander or Swede would ever say that about themselves. The tallest blade is the first to get cut by the lawnmower. The Germans, that's different. They fancy themselves so important that they even think the Americans are spying on them! Drmies (talk) 17:46, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T17:46:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T17:46:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:59:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• No, ReALLY? Hafspajen (talk) 17:51, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T17:51:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T17:51:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:59:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• And who is the one to say this, if not the legendary, great, acclaimed, visionary, outstanding, leading, celebrated, award-winning, cutting-edge, extraordinary, brilliant, famous, renowned, remarkable, prestigious, world-class, respected, notable, virtuoso Drmies? Hafspajen (talk) 18:07, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T18:07:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:07:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Aw shucks. Please tell Mrs. Drmies. Hej, don't you have a church or a barn to build? Did I ever tell you about that time it took me forever to get directions since I pronounced the letter k in Kävlinge as a Voiceless velar stop instead of as a Voiceless alveolo-palatal sibilant? Drmies (talk) 18:14, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T18:14:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T18:14:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Thomas.W-2013-11-20T19:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T18:14:00.000Z"]}}-->

Even "real" Swedes pronounce Scanian place names etc wrong most of the time, so you're in good company (or bad, depending on who you ask). Thomas.W ^{talk to me} 19:22, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T19:22:00.000Z","author":"Thomas.W","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Thomas.W-2013-11-20T19:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T18:14:00.000Z","replies":["c-De728631-2013-11-20T23:56:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-20T19:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

I guess in this case wrong pronunciation is not as much frowned upon as the accidental Jävlinge typo. De728631 (talk) 23:56, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T23:56:00.000Z","author":"De728631","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-De728631-2013-11-20T23:56:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-20T19:22:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Haha. Don't worry women are like that, they just want everybody to be even more ameliorated around them. She married you, no? And please, PLEASE, can anyone give me a Landscape architect userbox? I dont build barns, I make flowerbeds. And I need some distraction now and then, while my slaves do what I tell them. (Don't even think I am doing the digging) Hafspajen (talk) 18:36, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T18:36:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:36:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-21T02:36:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:36:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-21T16:09:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:36:00.000Z","c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-23T13:19:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

I think "Chävlinge" might be closer to the proper pronunciation. I guess I didn't quite know what I was getting into with a German ArbCom case but then again I'm from Skåne - we have full faith in our selves. Och tjena Hafspaj - is that a messy pie or an ocean pie?  Mr.choppers | ✎  02:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T02:36:00.000Z","author":"Mr.choppers","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-21T02:36:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:36:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Mr.choppers\u00a0|"}}-->

• Tjäna, yes one need to be Swedish to understand the subtilities of this name. It can be both, I guess. And as I told Drmies before, it was just a random Alfapet (scrabble) word, that appeared in between the lines, and I chose it just for fun. And Mr.choppers? Hafspajen (talk) 16:09, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T16:09:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-21T16:09:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

A customer once called me "Mister Choppers", saying I had large teeth (I don't really) and later in the day I was setting up a hotmail account (it was a while ago) and have kept it through sheer inertia. Sublime indeed. BTW, I think that the DE arbcom case might have ended - since Flow92 is quite the nutjob I didn't really have to do anything.  Mr.choppers | ✎  13:19, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T13:19:00.000Z","author":"Mr.choppers","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-23T13:19:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-23T14:40:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-23T13:19:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Mr.choppers\u00a0|"}}-->

• Hafspajen (talk) 14:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T14:40:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-23T14:40:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-23T13:19:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Well, this low life is back again, and seems to be vandalizing even more than they were before... yey! -.- Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 11:26, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-24T11:26:00.000Z","author":"Lukeno94","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Lukeno94-2013-11-24T11:26:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

An IP geolocating to Germany, 89.204.137.61 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), has been mass-reverting edits by Mr.choppers today, so I assume it's the German stalker striking again. I've reversed all of those edits, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are more IPs doing the same thing. Thomas.W ^{talk to me} 11:36, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-24T11:36:00.000Z","author":"Thomas.W","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Thomas.W-2013-11-24T11:36:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T16:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Lukeno94-2013-11-24T12:02:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-24T11:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

• I reverted lots by 82.113.121.248 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), so yeah, there are more IPs. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 12:02, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-24T12:02:00.000Z","author":"Lukeno94","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Lukeno94-2013-11-24T12:02:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-24T11:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• you feed your boy some orzo, almost shoving one of the orzi (?) up his nose, and think of WP:BEANS instantly. Drmies (talk) 17:58, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T17:58:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T17:58:00.000Z-You_know_you_spend_too_much_time_here_when...","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:10:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T17:58:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:29:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T17:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Be careful with your offsprings, will you? Will you say if this is an Vandalism only account? Hafspajen (talk) 18:10, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T18:10:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:10:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T17:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-20T18:17:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:10:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Sure, but one edit isn't so much to block on. I'll give them a warning. Perhaps they'll return, to be productive. Drmies (talk) 18:17, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T18:17:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T18:17:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:10:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

We hope. We will know for sure when my broomstick will start flowering. Hafspajen (talk) 18:29, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T18:29:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T18:29:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T17:58:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• ...you overhear coworkers complaining about someone sabotaging their project, and you think to yourself, "Hey, that could be accidental, those guys aren't assuming good faith!" Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:32, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T18:32:00.000Z","author":"Writ Keeper","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-20T18:32:00.000Z-You_know_you_spend_too_much_time_here_when...","replies":[],"displayName":"Writ\u00a0Keeper"}}-->
• you're signing your email messages ~~~~. Drmies (talk) 18:34, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T18:34:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T18:34:00.000Z-You_know_you_spend_too_much_time_here_when...","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T20:13:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T18:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

• So far so good, but when I add this to the other infoboxes, they turn all pink and there will be not only one one row, but two... Hafspajen (talk) 20:13, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T20:13:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T20:13:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T18:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Aunva6-2013-11-20T20:47:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T20:13:00.000Z"]}}-->

• you forgot the closing div, but the wikimarkup is messed up, I think. it won't recognize the closing }. -- Aunva6^{talk - contribs} 20:47, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T20:47:00.000Z","author":"Aunva6","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Aunva6-2013-11-20T20:47:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T20:13:00.000Z","replies":["c-Aunva6-2013-11-20T20:50:00.000Z-Aunva6-2013-11-20T20:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

• fixed. you need |} at the end of a table. -- Aunva6^{talk - contribs} 20:50, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T20:50:00.000Z","author":"Aunva6","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Aunva6-2013-11-20T20:50:00.000Z-Aunva6-2013-11-20T20:47:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

This user is not an architect but a Landscape architect

• OK, I try Hafspajen (talk) 20:45, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T20:45:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-20T20:45:00.000Z-You_know_you_spend_too_much_time_here_when...","replies":[]}}-->

What now?

• Aunva, I did it, I did it!!!!!!!!!!!! Wonderful! Thanks for all help! Great. Splendid. I mean, it is really so that people think that Landscape architect and architect is the same thing, but it really isn't the same thing at all. You wouldn't belive all the crap they send me, advertisments and stuff about concrete walls, stairs and all the brick, metal and stone materials, what am I suppose to do with it in a garden? Send me stuff on watering systems, plant catalogs and fertilzers instead! Hafspajen (talk)

• So now it is done. I keept the architect userbox, because there is no such thing like Cathegory:Landscape architect, but now this will be like a kind of architect#REDIRECT Landscape architect... And I am for userboxes, as everybody understod by now. Also if some kind I am for userbox-soul would find that intersting enough, ceate a cathegory, or tell mr how to do it, I would be extremaly happy. How am I suppose to know, where my other colleagues are among all those thousands of wikipedians? Hafspajen (talk) 10:11, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T10:11:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-21T10:11:00.000Z-You_know_you_spend_too_much_time_here_when...","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-21T16:22:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-21T10:11:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-21T16:48:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-21T10:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

• What is this, Warrington? A social network? We're here to chat around with nice people we have something in common with? I wish you'd come by my house. We need some landscape. Drmies (talk) 16:22, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T16:22:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T16:22:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-21T10:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Just give me the plan of your garden, your wishes and you temperature zone, and some photos, and I fix that. Possibly free, because you are my friend. No not necessarely chat around chat around, more to get help with articles. Could you please for example fix that Gardener article? Hafspajen (talk) 16:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T16:48:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-21T16:48:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-21T10:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, Drmies. Seems the article needs a full protection for a short period to avoid further warring. Regards.--Jetstreamer ^Talk 22:11, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T22:11:00.000Z","author":"Jetstreamer","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jetstreamer-2013-11-20T22:11:00.000Z-Eritrea","replies":["c-Aunva6-2013-11-20T23:47:00.000Z-Jetstreamer-2013-11-20T22:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

CambridgeBayWeather took care of it. forgot to put on the padlock though... -- Aunva6^{talk - contribs} 23:47, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T23:47:00.000Z","author":"Aunva6","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aunva6-2013-11-20T23:47:00.000Z-Jetstreamer-2013-11-20T22:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-20T23:48:00.000Z-Aunva6-2013-11-20T23:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

There's a bot that'll get around to putting the padlock on eventually. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 23:48, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T23:48:00.000Z","author":"Writ Keeper","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-20T23:48:00.000Z-Aunva6-2013-11-20T23:47:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ponyo-2013-11-20T23:54:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-20T23:48:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-20T23:55:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-20T23:48:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Writ\u00a0Keeper"}}-->

_{Hey, what gives Writ Keeper? You're supposed to be my uber-helpful TPS! --Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 23:54, 20 November 2013 (UTC)}[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T23:54:00.000Z","author":"Ponyo","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Ponyo-2013-11-20T23:54:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-20T23:48:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Jezebel'sPonyo"}}-->

There used to be, yes; these days I see Tbhotch putting those templates on. I never bother: being an admin is bad enough for my RSI. Oh, Ponyo, Writ Keeper is mine, mine. Drmies (talk) 23:55, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-20T23:55:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-20T23:55:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-20T23:48:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ponyo-2013-11-21T00:04:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T23:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

Surely we can work out a deal?--Jezebel'sPonyo^{bons mots} 00:04, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T00:04:00.000Z","author":"Ponyo","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Ponyo-2013-11-21T00:04:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-20T23:55:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Jezebel'sPonyo"}}-->

<Drmies backs away from the man holding up the Writ Keeper.>

Hi, I removed, then re-removed comments from the same anon who has been generally accusing this BLP of overlooking how much a pedophile this writer must be. Could you take a look? I'm not sure if it needs erasing or just removal or what. I also didn't know what message would be appropriate on the users' talk page. Any help appreciated. Sportfan5000 (talk) 01:22, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T01:22:00.000Z","author":"Sportfan5000","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sportfan5000-2013-11-21T01:22:00.000Z-Talk:Patrick_Califia_comment_may_need_to_be_removed_again","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-21T01:55:00.000Z-Sportfan5000-2013-11-21T01:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Yeah, I just remove that stuff. (Via rev-delete.) I found some more in the history and revdeleted that as well. I warned the editor, and I think you should do the same: just give them a high-level (or only) warning for BLP violations, and let the blocks fall where they may. The most recent editor is pretty close to a block, and that's acting on the assumption that they are not the IP who's made the exact same edits. So warn them, revert ASAP, let me or another friendly admin know. Drmies (talk) 01:55, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T01:55:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T01:55:00.000Z-Sportfan5000-2013-11-21T01:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sportfan5000-2013-11-21T09:16:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T01:55:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • Thank you! I left a warning as you suggest. Sportfan5000 (talk) 09:16, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T09:16:00.000Z","author":"Sportfan5000","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Sportfan5000-2013-11-21T09:16:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T01:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I removed an addition here to Patrick Califia. Someone’s using a source that says Califia supported the odious group NAMBLA ‘s free speech rights to say he was “an active supporter” while ignoring the fact that the same article says he doesn't agree with their cause. I think it’s the same kind of thing as Noam Chomsky “supporting” white supremacists and the like; conflating free speech advocacy with cause advocacy. The biggest BLP issue is that they outright flip the source’s stated non-support for changing age-of-consent laws in their source to “long advocated for the abolition of”.

Anyway, I thought I'd notify you so you can give your oversight if you felt like it, since it's been an ongoing BLP thing. I’ve reverted it, but I don’t want to get drawn into a back-and-forth over it. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like a claim like that needs to have the right weight in a bio. __ E L A Q U E A T E 08:19, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T08:19:00.000Z","author":"Elaqueate","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Elaqueate-2013-11-27T08:19:00.000Z-Talk:Patrick_Califia_comment_may_need_to_be_removed_again","replies":[],"displayName":"__ E L A Q U E A T E"}}-->

Thanks for removing it. They seem to have forgotten to add a section to ANI. I wonder if they wanted me to do it? CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 04:01, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T04:01:00.000Z","author":"CambridgeBayWeather","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-CambridgeBayWeather-2013-11-21T04:01:00.000Z-ANI_Eritrea","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-21T04:10:00.000Z-CambridgeBayWeather-2013-11-21T04:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Ha, yes, I kind of forgot about looking for the section while I was perusing ANI. Yes, please, do file that thread, and make sure you say terrible things about your abuse. Drmies (talk) 04:10, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T04:10:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T04:10:00.000Z-CambridgeBayWeather-2013-11-21T04:01:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=wikipedia-en-help&uio=MTE9MTg1ff

this is the link .i did chat in this window about my creation of article.after one hour it shows that i was banned till now i am getting the same message.how can i use live chat option help.how much i will be banned. below is my ip address: ip.118.102.131.106. so please do the favor to do live chat to fix my problems in creation of my article.

[10:32] == gateway/web/freenode/ip.118.102.131.106 is now your hidden host (set by syn.)
[10:32] == #wikipedia-en-help Cannot join channel (+b) - you are banned
[10:32] == #wikipedia-en-help Cannot join channel (+b) - you are banned — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maroofpeer (talk • contribs)

• Sorry, I have no idea what any of that means. Perhaps one of the more technologically hip talk page stalkers do. But I suggested what you should do about that article in the ANI thread you started. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 05:17, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T05:17:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T05:17:00.000Z-Help_me","replies":["c-Mdann52-2013-11-21T11:08:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T05:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

@Maroofpeer: What nick did you try and use? --Mdann52talk to me! 11:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T11:08:00.000Z","author":"Mdann52","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Mdann52-2013-11-21T11:08:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T05:17:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Mdann"}}-->

iam in the news of telug news papers.can i use this paper link for my natoability. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maroofpeer (talk • contribs) 05:33, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T05:33:00.000Z","author":"Maroofpeer","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Maroofpeer-2013-11-21T05:33:00.000Z-Help_me","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-21T05:48:00.000Z-Maroofpeer-2013-11-21T05:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Possibly, yes. Then again, should you write an autobiography? Probably not: see Wikipedia:Autobiography. Drmies (talk) 05:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T05:48:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T05:48:00.000Z-Maroofpeer-2013-11-21T05:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I'm willing to let this one go, and offering to work in a more collaborative and kind effort. Of course, no indiscriminate undos and systematic deletes and hidden threats -- it was out of control. But, I do want to let this go and posted on their "talk" as well as on Sean Harris' talk. If they agree or not -- I don't want to prevent contributions or keep him to correcting grammar and stray marks -- I would like them to contribute without just removing everything in such a way. Edit, not undo entirely. Will you then lift any restrictions? Thank you.

Legaleze (talk) 06:27, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T06:27:00.000Z","author":"Legaleze","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Legaleze-2013-11-21T06:27:00.000Z-Alternative595","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-21T14:36:00.000Z-Legaleze-2013-11-21T06:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

• There aren't any restrictions, besides the usual one. I don't know why they got all up in arms over my message, which I thought was plain, simple, and, given the circumstances, warranted. Further incivilities like the messages they left in article space will simply not be tolerated. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 14:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T14:36:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T14:36:00.000Z-Legaleze-2013-11-21T06:27:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Will you close/lock my ADM complaint? Thank you.

Legaleze (talk) 15:27, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T15:27:00.000Z","author":"Legaleze","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Legaleze-2013-11-21T15:27:00.000Z-Alternative595","replies":[]}}-->

For Mandarax's lovely enjoyment, because has literately become a preposition, because. On a side note, I hadn't seen the chocolate lab photo before. After seeing the photo, I have this insatiable desire to ask SandyGeorgia to marry me. Bgwhite (talk) 08:25, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T08:25:00.000Z","author":"Bgwhite","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bgwhite-2013-11-21T08:25:00.000Z-Because'_has_become_a_preposition,_because_grammar,_because_internet","replies":["c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-21T14:00:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-11-21T08:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

Too late-- I already have enough WikiHusbands (and we all know how high maintenance husbands are). But, if you have a chocolate lab, I would gladly sleep with it. I miss mine (that's not him, but those are what he looked like), who was much more handsome than the scruffy things round these parts! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:00, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T14:00:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-21T14:00:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-11-21T08:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:01:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-21T14:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

Could be worse: you could be married to Kiefer, or Eric Corbett. I was thinking of proposing to Regentspark, but they made some claim about age and wisdom in their ArbCom statement, and I certainly don't need another older man in my house. (While I'm typing this Liam is trying to take my left big toe off. He's remarkably happy today for a kid with RSV, pneumonia, and two ear infections.) Drmies (talk) 15:01, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T15:01:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:01:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-11-21T14:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-21T15:09:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:01:00.000Z","c-Yngvadottir-2013-11-21T21:12:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've been married to Ruth for more than 30 years now, so I can't be all bad. I still remember the day I first saw her; until then I'd thought the idea of love at first sight was ridiculous. Eric Corbett 15:09, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T15:09:00.000Z","author":"Eric Corbett","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-21T15:09:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:20:00.000Z-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-21T15:09:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Eric"}}-->

Sounds like a Neil Young song, Eric. "Unknown Legend"? Drmies (talk) 15:20, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T15:20:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:20:00.000Z-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-21T15:09:00.000Z","replies":["c-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-21T15:26:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:20:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ruth loves Neil Young, but I find him too whiney. She and I are so different it's untrue, but I'll never forget the day I saw that tall blonde walking past the refectory window. (We were both being interviewed for college places, she for biology and me for psychology). Eric Corbett 15:26, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T15:26:00.000Z","author":"Eric Corbett","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Eric_Corbett-2013-11-21T15:26:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:20:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Eric"}}-->

Pneumonia?! Poor kid! Hope he gets well soon! Yngvadottir (talk) 21:12, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T21:12:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2013-11-21T21:12:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-21T21:24:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-11-21T21:12:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-21T21:25:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-11-21T21:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks. Poor papa too: three nights with little sleep, two days away from work. His coughing at night is pretty bad. Once that's over we'll all be much better. And perhaps you know what antibiotics do to a young lad's intestinal tract. If you're interested, I'll describe in more detail what regurgitated food, snot, breast milk, and mucus looks like on your shirt. Drmies (talk) 21:24, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T21:24:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T21:24:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-11-21T21:12:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-11-29T20:27:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T21:24:00.000Z"]}}-->

The purpose of article-talkpages is to discuss improvements to articles, but user-talkpages can be used for discussions of policy-improvements, right? Is there such a thing as WP:TMI? No? We badly need one. Until then, let us settle for WP:BLPTALK, combined with WP:ORTALK, and strike that final sentence from the page. Though of course, it is now irreparably burned into my psyche. WP:RevengeIsBestServedCold, Drmies, you will not get away with publishing that sentence into my fragile mind. Your sleepless nights will pale in comparison to the wikiStress you now so richly deserve!  :-)   p.s. Hope it all came out for the best, in the end. No pun intended; in that case I would have said 'from' instead. — 74.192.84.101 (talk) 20:27, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-29T20:27:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-11-29T20:27:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T21:24:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Haha, he's playing peekaboo from behind the curtains. And the cat's outside in the same window, so now we're having fun. Drmies (talk) 21:25, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T21:25:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T21:25:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-11-21T21:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

This kindly sent to me by Kiefer.Wolfowitz. Do I have to rely on the Swedes to give me the college football news? No, fortunately it was reported in the paper this morning because in the south football is not like a religion at all--it's much more important. So, is AJ McCarron the best college player ever? I think that's pushing it, Tide rolls. Let's see him win the Iron Bowl first. Y'all can meet me on Bourbon Street and we'll watch together. I'm buying shots at the beginning of each quarter, Egan's-style. Drmies (talk) 14:59, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T14:59:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T14:59:00.000Z-King_Crimson","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:06:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T14:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Alright sports fans, who's going to write up 2012 SEC Championship Game properly? With some suspense, leading up to that final Georgia drive and play, with time running out? Drmies (talk) 15:06, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T15:06:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:06:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T14:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Moishe_Rosenbaum-2013-11-23T21:36:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:06:00.000Z"]}}-->

• • Game summary written. Hope I've done a reasonable job writing for the enemy. Moishe Rosenbaum (talk) 21:36, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T21:36:00.000Z","author":"Moishe Rosenbaum","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Moishe_Rosenbaum-2013-11-23T21:36:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-21T15:06:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, Drmies. You have new messages at [[User talk:Hafspajen (talk) 18:42, 21 November 2013 (UTC)|User talk:Hafspajen (talk) 18:42, 21 November 2013 (UTC)]].[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T18:42:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-21T18:42:00.000Z-Talk_to_me","replies":[]}}-->
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

as, if you have time, with all your problems on. Poor kid... Hafspajen (talk) 23:07, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-21T23:07:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-21T23:07:00.000Z-Talk_to_me","replies":[]}}-->

Wikipedians should be obliged to wear some outfit like this when walking around in the city. Well, just to recognise each other, I mean. Hafspajen (talk) 14:13, 22 November 2013 (UTC) And also one wouln't expect such stubborn behavior from a chap like this. Just fells like arguing with someone in the good old time when nobody had an idea about ownership issues or using pictures or... well anything, really. I remember a long an heavy dicussion about on the subject of galleries where the end of it was that it is indeed legitimate and quite alright to use them. I mean some things one can not only talk about, it is just impossible. It would not work. How an I suppose to tell you about this picture? like a big open space where guys walk around wearing ... what? Orange dresses? I say, that some people are good att keeping their oppinion whatewer you may tell them, they are just like Moses stone - Tablets of canvas. Hafspajen (talk) 14:31, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T14:13:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-22T14:13:00.000Z-Talk_to_me","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-22T20:35:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-22T14:13:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Warrington, this is America, more specifically the Deep South. We don't walk around in cities here; we drive around in suburbs. Also, now Rosie has it too. I'm tired. What needed to be done on Gardening? Let's see if Liam wants to take another nap. Drmies (talk) 20:35, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T20:35:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-22T20:35:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-22T14:13:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-22T20:57:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-22T20:35:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-23T12:12:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-22T20:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Damn bad luck. Have you tried garlic? I mean to prevent that yourself and the other child and wife to get this shit. About gardening, there is nothing You can do. I think there's quite a lot that could be written (famous gardeners past and present, gardeners in art and literature, gardeners as a stereotype, charities and societies for gardeners, the changing role and status of gardeners etc.), BUT I need a gardener or a landskape arch. It was just an example why one would need someone to work with, (same usebox). And yes I know how people live in America, lived there myself a while... Hafspajen (talk) 20:57, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T20:57:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-22T20:57:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-22T20:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• I remember feeling almost ill about this, not being able to walk around, like home. I remember telling people:But, we in Europe, we walk, everywhere. And I remember trying to walk home from Crystal Cathedral home in Orange county, and I realized why people are not walking . there were no sidewalks... or just a few of them, just in front of special buildings, and than stopped again. An there was I, walking by the road and some people even stopped their cars and asked me if there was any problem, if I needed any help ... And when I told them I was just feeling like walking around a bit, they looked at me as if I just landed from the moon or something. The only people I saw walking were the homeless. So I gave up. Hafspajen (talk) 12:12, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T12:12:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-23T12:12:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-22T20:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Could you teach this user for how not to break WP:3RR. This is the second time in the past week he has done so, that I know of.—CKY2250 ^ταικ 01:12, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T01:12:00.000Z","author":"Cky2250","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cky2250-2013-11-22T01:12:00.000Z-User:_Beyond_My_Ken","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-22T03:53:00.000Z-Cky2250-2013-11-22T01:12:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-22T03:55:00.000Z-Cky2250-2013-11-22T01:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Probably not. Can't teach an old dog a new trick. You can report--well, you know that. Beyond My Ken, please don't break 3R--but that's the best I can do. If I had seen those edits go by, though, I might have inserted myself in the dispute, on the side of BMK since in this particular case I think they're right, and I wonder where AmericanDad came from, if they don't have some old beef with BMK. I know that's entirely unsatisfactory and not what you want to hear, but it is what it is. If another admin looks at it and forms a judgment, which I won't, then that's fine with me. Drmies (talk) 03:53, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T03:53:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-22T03:53:00.000Z-Cky2250-2013-11-22T01:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• For the record, I know that BMK can be prone to strong language. Nothing I can do about that. Whether I agree with their manner or not is really neither here nor there. Sorry. Drmies (talk) 03:55, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T03:55:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-22T03:55:00.000Z-Cky2250-2013-11-22T01:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I am working on a radio station article (when am I not? :)) and I having trouble with making this one sentence sound right. Here's what I have so far, feel free to change them as you see fit (and I'm hoping to take the article to GA).

• On Sunday Mornings, church services from St. Mary Roman Catholic Church and Spruce Street United Methodist Church, located in Star City and Morgantown respectively, are aired live.

• On Sunday mornings, WCLG broadcasts two live local church services. Beginning first, with the 8:30am Liturgy from the St. Mary Roman Catholic Church, located in Star City, West Virginia. Then the 10:45am Worship from the Spruce Street United Methodist Church, located in Morgantown.

Both have their problems, but it's the best I can do. Help? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:23, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T05:23:00.000Z","author":"Neutralhomer","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Neutralhomer-2013-11-22T05:23:00.000Z-Sentence_Help","replies":["c-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-22T05:39:00.000Z-Neutralhomer-2013-11-22T05:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

(talk page stalker) Well, the second one has things that aren't sentences. :) How about: "On Sunday mornings, WCLG broadcasts live two local church services, from St. Mary's Catholic church in Star City and the Spruce Street Methodist Church in Morgantown." Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 05:39, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T05:39:00.000Z","author":"Writ Keeper","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-22T05:39:00.000Z-Neutralhomer-2013-11-22T05:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-Neutralhomer-2013-11-22T06:03:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-22T05:39:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Writ\u00a0Keeper"}}-->

@Writ: Yeah, I tried to break that second one up cause it was a serious run-on sentence, but it just didn't sound right. I asked the same question above (to get a variety of answers) on User:Anna Frodesiak's talk page and User:Bbb23 suggested I use...

Every Sunday morning, WCLG broadcasts live the services at Star City's St. Mary Roman Catholic Church at 8:30am and Morgantown's Spruce Street United Methodist Church at 10:45am.

...so I went with that one, but feel free to change it up if you like. It's a little bit of a run-on too, but it adds everything into the one sentence. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 06:03, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T06:03:00.000Z","author":"Neutralhomer","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Neutralhomer-2013-11-22T06:03:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-22T05:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-22T15:35:00.000Z-Neutralhomer-2013-11-22T06:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

Wow, Bbb23 came up with that sentence? I'd Google it just to make sure it's in fact his, you know. Drmies (talk) 15:35, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T15:35:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-22T15:35:00.000Z-Neutralhomer-2013-11-22T06:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Would it be appropriate and/or the right move to delete the template on Jackson's user page asking for editors to give him feedback at an editor review? Wikipedia:Editor review/Jackson Peebles. I am not sure how this should be handled but thought you might be able to make a decision here for the community and with respect for his passing that we no longer comment on his contributions in this way after his death or continue to show this request. The last comment was on 30 October 2013. I am not sure myself so I will defer to your judgment. Thanks!--Mark Miller (talk) 09:32, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T09:32:00.000Z","author":"Mark Miller","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mark_Miller-2013-11-22T09:32:00.000Z-User:Jackson_Peebles","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-22T15:08:00.000Z-Mark_Miller-2013-11-22T09:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

• I think so, Mark, and I've just done that. The review page itself was already fully protected, I saw. Thanks for the note. Drmies (talk) 15:08, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T15:08:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-22T15:08:00.000Z-Mark_Miller-2013-11-22T09:32:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Drmies, would you mind taking a look at the discussion here? WilyD has been attempting to remove the demonym "American" from the page in spite of every major dictionary and stylebook consulted listing it as acceptable usage. Unable to establish a consensus for the change, the user has been adding other nonsense to the infobox, seemingly trying to make a WP:POINT. More troublesome, the user is making derogatory comments about anyone that don't conform to a narrow minded view on usage of the word, such as that those who use the word as sources define it are motivated by a "racist mindset" or that they "favour imperialism and colonialism". I've requested that the user drop the "racist" nonsense, but the response just repeats the attacks: "The use of American to mean "a person from the Americas" is racist/colonialist". The user admits that their opinions on the matter are "probably not sourcable", so they're really not relevant or helpful to building an encyclopedia. It's awfully hard to try to resolve a content dispute when someones keeps screaming "RACIST!" without justification. Would you mind talking to the user to try and get them to tone it down? Thanks! TDL (talk) 19:35, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T19:35:00.000Z","author":"Danlaycock","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Danlaycock-2013-11-22T19:35:00.000Z-Request","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-22T20:26:00.000Z-Danlaycock-2013-11-22T19:35:00.000Z"],"displayName":"TDL"}}-->

• Well, here's the thing--as exciting as that discussion is, and as heated as it got, WilyD said to you "It's not a personal attack, because it's not directed at you", and I believe that. One does not need to be a racist to be using a racist term, so to speak. I read the discussion and don't really know what to make of it or whose side I'm on, but I am quite sure that WilyD is not saying "you're using the term because you have a racist mindset", and that comment on your talk page is clear enough as well. Drmies (talk) 20:26, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T20:26:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-22T20:26:00.000Z-Danlaycock-2013-11-22T19:35:00.000Z","replies":["c-Danlaycock-2013-11-22T21:23:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-22T20:26:00.000Z"]}}-->

I really fail to see how using such loaded language is helpful to building a collaborative encyclopedia. Anyone can throw around the "R" word, but if every discussion descends into "There's a racist mindset behind using oxford commas" or "There's a racist mindset behind spelling colour with a u" it makes for a quite toxic atmosphere, no different than Reductio ad Hitlerum. Of course, if there actually are racist connotations to the word, this would be notable and I'd support including a discussion on that in the encyclopedia. But it's unsubstantiated and completely irrelevant to the issue under discussion. (The user admits it was an "aside".)

I suppose I just have higher civility expectations than wikipedia's minimum standards. TDL (talk) 21:23, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-22T21:23:00.000Z","author":"Danlaycock","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Danlaycock-2013-11-22T21:23:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-22T20:26:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-23T00:30:00.000Z-Danlaycock-2013-11-22T21:23:00.000Z"],"displayName":"TDL"}}-->

If you hadn't made that last remark I would have let this go and thus shaken my head, but I find that comment a bit offensive. In effect, what's happening is that WilyD rightly or wrongly sees a historical burden behind the word, and you don't. They attempt to explain what it is, and you say "you called me a racist". No, they didn't, as they explained to you at length on your talk page. If you can't read and comprehend that, that's tough. For the last time: No one called you a racist or said your comments were racist. And no one said there's a racist mindset behind the Oxford comma: you can complain about a toxic atmosphere, but throwing straw men around is certainly not improving the atmosphere. Maybe you should take WilyD's comments seriously, and refute them intelligently; defaulting to an accusation of an ad hominem doesn't work. Drmies (talk) 00:30, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T00:30:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-23T00:30:00.000Z-Danlaycock-2013-11-22T21:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-Danlaycock-2013-11-23T09:09:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-23T00:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

Speaking of straw men: I accept that no one was called a racist, and don't believe that I suggested otherwise in my reply above. (The user does have a history of dancing very close to that line on the article though.) My point was that any argument can be responded to by making unsubstantiated claims that "there's a racist mindset behind that position". Evidently that's OK on wiki as long as you don't explicitly say "you have a racist mindset", however such cheap, unsubstantiated claims invariably inflame discussions. I see this time and time again on ethnically charged articles, and was hoping to prevent further inflammation that the inevitable "there's a racist/imperialist mindset behind using "American" exclusively to refer to US citizens" counter-claim will generate. Of course if one wants to engage in a serious discussion on the issue and provide sources to support the claim, that's a different story. But repeating the same inflammatory assertion over and over again for years, without providing any sources to back it up, seems unhelpful to me. That's why I requested that the user either source it, so its merits can be examined and debated, or stop it. How else can I "refute them intelligently" without assessing the sources (if any) they're based on? Anyways, hopefully the issue cools down. TDL (talk) 09:09, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T09:09:00.000Z","author":"Danlaycock","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Danlaycock-2013-11-23T09:09:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-23T00:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-23T15:52:00.000Z-Danlaycock-2013-11-23T09:09:00.000Z"],"displayName":"TDL"}}-->

I'll grant you that that diff straddled a line and maybe crossed it. Besides, I wouldn't call it racist--more ethnocentric or ignorant or something. Refuting--well, you can always start an RfC, maybe, if there is a definite, specific question to be asked and answered. Drmies (talk) 15:52, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T15:52:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-23T15:52:00.000Z-Danlaycock-2013-11-23T09:09:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

As Drmies is such a big fan of Doctor Who, I thought I write here and spread the word of this joyous occasion. I started out as a Whovian as a kid in the 70s, my Doctor is the Fourth Doctor. I always wanted a scarf like his.

The 50th anniversary episode will be broadcast simultaneously in 76 countries at 2:50 ET. Sorry, Kelapstick, no Mongolia. It will also be shown at theaters in 3-D. I'll be watching in a sold-out theater.

For your enjoyment

• Doctor Whose Line Is It Anyway? with Wayne Brady. "Welcome to Doctor Who's Line is it Anyway?, the show where everything is made up and the points don't matter, because you will all be exterminated!"
• Today's Google doodle, where you get to play a game of Doctor vs. Daleks.
• David Tennet and Donna (Catherine Tate) on Comic relief.

Bgwhite (talk) 10:24, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T10:24:00.000Z","author":"Bgwhite","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bgwhite-2013-11-23T10:24:00.000Z-Happy_50th_Anniversary_Doctor_Who","replies":["c-Kelapstick-2013-11-23T10:37:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-11-23T10:24:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you for spreading the word BG, the Doctor Who's Line is it Anyway is worth the watch. I beat the google doodle game, but the level with the Weeping Angels is creepy (as are the angels). I'm not in Mongolia, but I will save watching it until after the kids are in bed. Enjoy all! --kelapstick^{(on the run)} 10:37, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T10:37:00.000Z","author":"Kelapstick","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kelapstick-2013-11-23T10:37:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-11-23T10:24:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-25T00:11:00.000Z-Kelapstick-2013-11-23T10:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Well I'm thrilled. Totally. Drmies (talk) 00:11, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T00:11:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-25T00:11:00.000Z-Kelapstick-2013-11-23T10:37:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

What happened to Dennis Brown? Was just about to pick his picture dogwood bud to use it, and ... where is he? Hafspajen (talk) 11:58, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T11:58:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-23T11:58:00.000Z-What_happened_to","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-23T15:54:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-23T11:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

• He's selling lawn and garden equipment in North Carolina, door-to-door. He sends me postcards every now and then, and sometimes I send him money for lunch. Well, he's busy in real life and I think he may have had a less than great wiki experience in the SPI area, I don't know. I miss him, though--that boy could calm a fight down like few other people. Drmies (talk) 15:54, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T15:54:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-23T15:54:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-23T11:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-23T16:54:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-23T15:54:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Send him to me, I might need exactly his garden equipment, insead of all the concrete walls. I liked the guy, pity he stopped. Hafspajen (talk) 16:54, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T16:54:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-23T16:54:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-23T15:54:00.000Z","replies":["c-De728631-2013-11-25T00:15:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-23T16:54:00.000Z"]}}-->

• That's sad news indeed. I didn't work a lot with Dennis but I always liked it. De728631 (talk) 00:15, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T00:15:00.000Z","author":"De728631","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-De728631-2013-11-25T00:15:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-23T16:54:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-25T00:28:00.000Z-De728631-2013-11-25T00:15:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Dennis Brown is great. Great work ethic, flexible but principled, totally nice guy. He's not the prettiest of admins (we can't all be so lucky) but he's a great asset and if he's indeed gone he'll be sorely missed. If there's anyone I want to sit down with in the garden with a couple of beers and some dead animal on the grill waiting for the Bama game to start, it's him. Well, him and Tide rolls of course. Drmies (talk) 00:28, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T00:28:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-25T00:28:00.000Z-De728631-2013-11-25T00:15:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tide_rolls-2013-11-25T00:37:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-25T00:28:00.000Z","c-Dennis_Brown-2013-11-25T03:23:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-25T00:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

Maybe next season,professor. I'm hoping Dennis is not through with us permanently; few can match him for the thoughtful and calm approach. Roll Tide Tiderolls 00:37, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T00:37:00.000Z","author":"Tide rolls","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Tide_rolls-2013-11-25T00:37:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-25T00:28:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Tide"}}-->

• And I would love to accept that hospitality. No promises on the future, however. A guy under contract in Nashville is needing a guitarist for local work, and I'm qualified. Odd that I don't normally listen to country, but I can chicken pick it all day. And thanks, I do appreciate the kind words from you all. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 03:23, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T03:23:00.000Z","author":"Dennis Brown","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Dennis_Brown-2013-11-25T03:23:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-25T00:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-25T03:30:00.000Z-Dennis_Brown-2013-11-25T03:23:00.000Z","c-The_ed17-2013-11-25T03:31:00.000Z-Dennis_Brown-2013-11-25T03:23:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Dennis\u00a0Brown"}}-->

• No kidding! A chicken picker! You may be the first one on this talk page, Dennis--for some reason I think of Kiefer as a shredder. Good to see you, my friend. You know there's always a cold PBR for you in my fridge, and a Turbo Dog for Tide rolls of course (bought on sale a decade or more ago, at JD's on Dead Coach Drive). Drmies (talk) 03:30, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T03:30:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-25T03:30:00.000Z-Dennis_Brown-2013-11-25T03:23:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• (edit conflict) Hope to see you back soon, Dennis. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 03:31, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T03:31:00.000Z","author":"The ed17","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-The_ed17-2013-11-25T03:31:00.000Z-Dennis_Brown-2013-11-25T03:23:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Ed"}}-->

Hi Drmies, Do you think my PROD was justified there? Esp. re: the two so-called 'refs'. Thanks!
_Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 15:08, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T15:08:00.000Z","author":"Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2013-11-23T15:08:00.000Z-Mohammad_Jamshidi","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-23T16:09:00.000Z-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2013-11-23T15:08:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Fortuna"}}-->

• I was looking at your A7, here, and I don't think that was justified: there was a somewhat believable claim to importance there (playing on a national team). Now, your PROD should have been a BLP PROD, strictly speaking, but that's by the by. I don't put much faith in that Rappler link, but this, which verifies his playing for the national team, looks legit enough--it looks like all those soccer statistics sites that we apparently use. So I'd say that the template was removed appropriately, though one could claim, I suppose, that the two refs are not reliable sources--but that's a matter to discuss on the talk page. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 16:09, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T16:09:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-23T16:09:00.000Z-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2013-11-23T15:08:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2013-11-23T16:18:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-23T16:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

BLP borne in mind for next time. I'm not on a crusade against Iranian basketball players but 'articles' like that are just, lazy. Thanks! _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 16:18, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T16:18:00.000Z","author":"Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2013-11-23T16:18:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-23T16:09:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-23T16:24:00.000Z-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2013-11-23T16:18:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Fortuna"}}-->

We have a lot of those, unfortunately. Let's start by removing that flag from the infobox--that's my own crusade. Drmies (talk) 16:24, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T16:24:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-23T16:24:00.000Z-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2013-11-23T16:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2013-11-23T18:32:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-23T16:24:00.000Z"]}}-->

Does this policy apply there? _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 18:32, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T18:32:00.000Z","author":"Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2013-11-23T18:32:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-23T16:24:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-23T19:06:00.000Z-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2013-11-23T18:32:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Fortuna"}}-->

Yep. Or, in general, MOS:FLAG. Drmies (talk) 19:06, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T19:06:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-23T19:06:00.000Z-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2013-11-23T18:32:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello. Bish recommended that I in her absence should contact you when I needed some assistance, so here we go. I would appreciate if you would read four user talk page discussions, on the talk page of IP121.232.240.17, on my talk page, on the talk page of admin TigerShark and on the talk page of user Bonusballs. The background to all of this is that I two days ago reverted edits by a long term IP-hopping POV-pusher in Nanjing, China, on List of tallest buildings in the world, edits that systematically changed "Hong Kong" to "China" throughout the article, and equally systematically replaced the flag of Hong Kong with the flag of PRC. Which along with targeting articles related to Taiwan is typical of what that anonymous editor does. I also reported the anon to WP:AIV and requested page protection for the article that was being targeted. But instead of the usual and knowledgeable admins there, such as Materialscientist, ReaperEternal, Alexf, GedUK or Bbb23, the desk was staffed by admin TigerShark, who obviously knows absolutely nothing about vandalism. Because TigerShark refused any action, both at AIV and at ANEW, claiming that it was ordinary edit-warring, i.e. a simple content dispute, suggested that I should discuss the matter with the serial vandal and reach a consensus (as if the status of Hong Kong should be discussed and decided separately for every single article that relates to, or even mentions, Hong Kong...), swiftly posted a 3RR-warning on my talk page and topped it off by repeatedly threatening to block me. And in spite of repeated attempts by me to make him understand what the problems with that IP and those edits are he has refused to change his mind, apparently still not understanding what it's all about. And, as you can see from the discussion on Bonusball's talk page I'm not the only experienced vandalism fighter here on en-WP who has been warned and threatened with being blocked for doing what we've been doing for a long time now, without having any problems with the experienced admins at AIV and ANEW (like the ones I listed above). To TigerShark's credit should be said that he PC-protected the article today, after a new round of POV-edits from the guy in Nanking, but he clearly still sees it as an ordinary content dispute.

That's a lot of sentences beginning with "and", but I'm upset, and seriously consider quitting my "job" here if the abysmally low level of competence within the field of fighting vandalism that TigerShark is showing is what we'll have to live with from now on. Thomas.W ^{talk to me} 20:41, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T20:41:00.000Z","author":"Thomas.W","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thomas.W-2013-11-23T20:41:00.000Z-Your_opinion_appreciated","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-23T23:53:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-23T20:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Let me ask you this: is there a guideline or RfC or MOS section you can point to for the naming bit? That would be very useful. (I didn't see anything at Wikipedia:WikiProject Hong Kong, but I haven't perused every subpage of that project.) And I'll say two more general things: it's easy from your point of view (and Bonusballs') to call something vandalism--for one, you don't have to block for it, and second, you may know the stuff better then the admin, esp. if it's a recurring thing. The other thing, holy shit that page has a lot of MOS-violating flag icons on it; all of them need to go.

  Anyway, I am inclined to agree with you, that this is an IP hopping POV pusher, and I probably would have blocked them (I still might). What it depends on, for instance, is whether their other edits are indicative of such a POV. Sorry, gotta go. I'll check back later. Drmies (talk) 23:53, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-23T23:53:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-23T23:53:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-23T20:41:00.000Z","replies":["c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-24T03:06:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-23T23:53:00.000Z"]}}-->

Things seem to be improving: [6]  Mr.choppers | ✎  03:06, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-24T03:06:00.000Z","author":"Mr.choppers","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-24T03:06:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-23T23:53:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Mr.choppers\u00a0|"}}-->

Can you perhaps have a look at Cees Krijnen? Corrections and suggestions for improvement are welcome. Thanks. --GentleDjinn (talk) 11:38, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-24T11:38:00.000Z","author":"GentleDjinn","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GentleDjinn-2013-11-24T11:38:00.000Z-Cees_Krijnen","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-24T15:38:00.000Z-GentleDjinn-2013-11-24T11:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Simple: add reliable, footnoted sources... I wonder if he's related to an old school pal of mine--does he like progressive rock? There's a few things in Google Books from magazines and edited collections (about his parents' marriage and divorce, for instance), but only snippets so I can't cite correctly. There should be stuff in the archives of de Volkskrant--what various snippets suggest to me is that there is a story behind that divorce performance that I probably couldn't really tell here given our BLP rules, haha, without rigorous verification. Drmies (talk) 15:38, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-24T15:38:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-24T15:38:00.000Z-GentleDjinn-2013-11-24T11:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

DYK ... that Caspar David Friedrich, the artist behind the painting at the top of this page, was an ethnic German yet a Swedish citizen by birth? He was born in Swedish Pomerania and kept his Swedish citizenship and passport all his life, in spite of never living in Sweden. Thomas.W ^{talk to me} 22:07, 24 November 2013 (UTC) (The section header did say "trivia"; his Swedish nationality and life-long fascination with Sweden is for some reason not mentioned at all on en-WP, while being prominently mentioned, in a separate section, on de-WP, where I read it...)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-24T22:07:00.000Z","author":"Thomas.W","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thomas.W-2013-11-24T22:07:00.000Z-Some_Sunday_trivia","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Dr. Mies. How are you? I couldn't help but notice that you nominated some Transformers articles for deletion en masse. Good job. You do realize that that was my "thing" for a while, back in like 2010 and part of 2011, right? How did you even discover the Transformers articles? Well in any case, good job. Transformers Liquidator (talk) 00:11, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T00:11:00.000Z","author":"Transformers Liquidator","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Transformers_Liquidator-2013-11-25T00:11:00.000Z-Transformers_AFD","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-25T00:13:00.000Z-Transformers_Liquidator-2013-11-25T00:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

• You know, I remember that but totally forgot who you were. Sorry. If you'd been more successful we'd need only half the server space and save a gazillion gallons of oil every day. Drmies (talk) 00:13, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T00:13:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-25T00:13:00.000Z-Transformers_Liquidator-2013-11-25T00:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Given your home state, I'm surprised/disappointed that this talk page doesn't have more discussion of American football. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 02:48, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T02:48:00.000Z","author":"The ed17","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_ed17-2013-11-25T02:48:00.000Z-American_football","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-25T02:57:00.000Z-The_ed17-2013-11-25T02:48:00.000Z","c-Crisco_1492-2013-11-25T05:51:00.000Z-The_ed17-2013-11-25T02:48:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Ed"}}-->

• As you know, Ed, on this talk page it's all business--we're not a social network here, dude. As it happens, "our" game wasn't even on TV yesterday but it was easy peasy. Next weekend, though, it's a different matter; we'll be in New Orleans with my mom and her male companion, and I'll have to find a nice place to watch the Iron Bowl. (For the [foreign?] talk page stalkers, it's the biggest rivalry in college football,^{[citation needed]} and this year's game decides who goes to the conference championship, and whether Alabama will have a shot at another national championship.) Guess I'll ask NawlinWiki where to go, and maybe have a cup of coffee with him. Now, Ed, I'm sure you got better things to do than wiki-ing off: Manning vs. Brady XIV is on, though there's precious little Brady so far, haha. Drmies (talk) 02:57, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T02:57:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-25T02:57:00.000Z-The_ed17-2013-11-25T02:48:00.000Z","replies":["c-The_ed17-2013-11-25T03:34:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-25T02:57:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • Sure, never any Facebooking. Chattanooga was a sacrificial lamb. I watched part of the demolition on ESPN3. The Iron Bowl should be interesting, and I'm hopeful that they can break Alabama's ridiculous run... As for football right now, it's a lot of defense. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 03:34, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T03:34:00.000Z","author":"The ed17","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-The_ed17-2013-11-25T03:34:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-25T02:57:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Ed"}}-->

• So, a gridiron is something you use to clean plaid shirts, right? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:51, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-25T05:51:00.000Z","author":"Crisco 1492","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Crisco_1492-2013-11-25T05:51:00.000Z-The_ed17-2013-11-25T02:48:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

can help this page Johor Darul Takzim F.C. good article? and i more can make soccer jersey.I hope you can help me.Sorry R.I.P English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pakcikfarhan (talk • contribs) 13:39, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T13:39:00.000Z","author":"Pakcikfarhan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pakcikfarhan-2013-11-26T13:39:00.000Z-Help_me_(2)","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-26T16:38:00.000Z-Pakcikfarhan-2013-11-26T13:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

• In its current state, I don't see it getting promoted, no. Mind you, I don't know the ins and outs of what WP:FOOTY considers a Good Article. Besides some syntax problems, there's WP:MOS problems (double caps in section headings, like "Current Squad"), and things like inline URLs for the sponsors--those can't have inline URLs, in my opinion, and should have a wikilink if available and a reliable source to verify the claim. In addition, the page is littered with MOS:FLAG violations--now, many of those are probably deemed not to be violations according to the soccer people, but this is in contradiction to the guidelines, which reserve flag icons for special cases, particularly where national representation is at stake--and in none of the cases in this article that's what's happening. Certainly there is no need for flags in the directory of management and staff, or the list of "Affiliated Clubs" (not sure what that means). But that's just my opinion and that of the MOS: comparison with a listed GA for a soccer club will tell you what FOOTY finds acceptable. Those flags hurt my eyes and my soul. In addition, the logo in the infobox is way too big (just fixed that.

  Most of all, though, the page is overloaded with things that are not text, and the history should come first. A table like "As Johor Darul Ta'zim F.C." is not OK, in my opinion, if only one of the sixteen cells has content. The logos are all different sizes--I suppose they are OK to use (see WP:NFC, especially WP:NFC#UUI) but it might well be that more discussion of the logos is required to warrant their use; perhaps Werieth can shed light on this. But there's plenty of copy editing (and reorganizing) to be done before those bigger issues are tackled. Thank you, and good luck, Drmies (talk) 16:38, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T16:38:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-26T16:38:00.000Z-Pakcikfarhan-2013-11-26T13:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Werieth-2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T16:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

  • I have gone ahead and removed the gallery of non-free files. It may be possible to justify the inclusion of those files at a future date, but the article needs significantly more in order to justify them. Werieth (talk) 16:41, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z","author":"Werieth","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Werieth-2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T16:38:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-26T17:10:00.000Z-Werieth-2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z"]}}-->
    • Thanks Werieth. You're rapidly becoming an underground success in this town. Drmies (talk) 17:10, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T17:10:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-26T17:10:00.000Z-Werieth-2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Drmies. A blocked user has pointed out that you apparently have double-voted in an AfD.[7]. He seems to be correct.Anythingyouwant (talk) 13:54, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T13:54:00.000Z","author":"Anythingyouwant","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T13:54:00.000Z-Double-voting","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T14:03:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T13:54:00.000Z","c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T14:14:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T13:54:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Drmies, you should put those together, like = redirect or delete. Some do wote in this way. Hafspajen (talk) 14:03, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T14:03:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T14:03:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T13:54:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• You can always reconsider your vote too, in view of persuasion.  :)Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:14, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T14:14:00.000Z","author":"Anythingyouwant","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T14:14:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T13:54:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T14:19:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T14:14:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Why not, eh? Hafspajen (talk) 14:19, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T14:19:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T14:19:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T14:14:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-26T16:18:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T14:19:00.000Z","c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T14:19:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Well, at least I was moderately consistent. Thanks for pointing it out. Drmies (talk) 16:18, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T16:18:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-26T16:18:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T14:19:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I could say, "better to be correct than consistent", but that would be borderline snarky.  :-) BTW, I just shamelessly copied one of your user boxes, very nice.Anythingyouwant (talk) 16:41, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z","author":"Anythingyouwant","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T14:19:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-26T17:09:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T18:08:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

Haha, I can handle that. Unless I'm having a bad day in which case I'll just summarily block you. Did I say "block you"? I must have really cold fingers to type such a chilling thread. FWIW, I agree that "Spirit of BLP" sounds like an Elton John song. But since you're asking (not that you are), I fall firmly on the NOTNEWS side of NOTNEWS, and I think that policy is relevant here as well, besides BLP1E etc. Take it easy, Drmies (talk) 17:09, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T17:09:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-26T17:09:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z","replies":["c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T17:29:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T17:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

You too (and put on some gloves or something!).Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:29, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T17:29:00.000Z","author":"Anythingyouwant","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T17:29:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T17:09:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Haha, I think it was this one... But than, considering all those barnstars, it is most likely... Hafspajen (talk) 18:08, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T18:08:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T18:08:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T16:41:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Anythingyouwant, have you considered changing your user name? Your user page sez you tired--and as long as you give everything what they want you are not likely to get untired very soon (you'll be retired before then). Pardon me for speaking frankly, but "Ferrylodge" also isn't very...cheerful? bright? overflowing with energy? Maybe you should try something in the heavy metal sphere, like "Burner of Destruction" or "Solid Black Mass" (Mass or Mass). Or something optimistic, like "Barley Celebration"--after all, barley is really good for your body. Just a thought! Drmies (talk) 18:30, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T18:30:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-26T18:30:00.000Z-Double-voting","replies":["c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T18:42:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T18:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

You're right, it is tiring to give everyone everything they want, but if a big old fat guy like Santa can do it, then surely a middle-aged skinny guy like me can. If I change my name again, people will just think I'm unstable....which is certainly a price worth paying, but not for "Burner of Destruction". Maybe ChihuahuaNuker, but not quite. And what the heck is "Drmies", a typo? A skin condition? Or perhaps something more sinister?Anythingyouwant (talk) 18:42, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T18:42:00.000Z","author":"Anythingyouwant","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T18:42:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T18:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T23:31:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T18:42:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T19:23:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T18:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Oh, the Dr is doctor, and Mies is a Dutch name, of course, as everybody have realized by now. I strongly oppose ChihuahuaNuker. Maybe you just shorten Anythingyouwant to Anything? Kind of an existential mystery? Don't ask what Hafspajen means. Hafspajen (talk) 23:31, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T23:31:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T23:31:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T18:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T23:38:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T23:31:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T00:28:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T23:31:00.000Z"]}}-->

I was afraid that "dr" stands for "doctor" (see [8]). If you guys and gals really think my username is no good, then I could change it, but maybe you're just kidding around.Anythingyouwant (talk) 23:38, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T23:38:00.000Z","author":"Anythingyouwant","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T23:38:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T23:31:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• No, no he is a real doctor. With a diploma from the university. Hafspajen (talk) 00:28, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T00:28:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T00:28:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-26T23:31:00.000Z","replies":["c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-27T00:31:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T00:28:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T08:49:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T00:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've got a Juris Doctor degree, so I propose Dranythingyouwant.  :-)Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:31, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T00:31:00.000Z","author":"Anythingyouwant","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-27T00:31:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T00:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-27T00:34:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-27T00:31:00.000Z"]}}-->

Don't listen to these jokers: any way you want your user name, that's the way you need it. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 00:34, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T00:34:00.000Z","author":"Writ Keeper","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-27T00:34:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-27T00:31:00.000Z","replies":["c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-27T00:38:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-27T00:34:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Writ\u00a0Keeper"}}-->

Thanks.  :-)Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:38, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T00:38:00.000Z","author":"Anythingyouwant","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-27T00:38:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-11-27T00:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-27T06:42:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-27T00:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

Wow, I'm famous! (On Sherlockweekendwingding?) Look, "Dranything", that does have a ring to it. I like it. And we have a couple of editors whose signatures are way different from their user names, so why not. But look y'all, I just got done watching Channel Z, which is a terrible attack on one's health, what with all the need for bourbon drinking and all. So let's hold off on sanity for now, please, and in the meantime, whatever Writ Keeper says is probably right. Drmies (talk) 06:42, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T06:42:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-27T06:42:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-27T00:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Totally agree with Writ Keeper. Anything you want us to call you, we will call you... no problem. Hafspajen (talk) 08:49, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T08:49:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T08:49:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T00:28:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• ~, '~,',~',~',*~*~*~*~Some cheering up ',~',~',',~',~',' yo ho ho Donald Where's Your Troosers? Hafspajen (talk) 19:23, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T19:23:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T19:23:00.000Z-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-26T18:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-27T19:43:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T19:23:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T19:52:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T19:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

Names are funny things.[9]Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:43, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T19:43:00.000Z","author":"Anythingyouwant","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Anythingyouwant-2013-11-27T19:43:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T19:23:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Haha! That was funny. And the Steve Martin who can't leave too. Hafspajen (talk) 19:52, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T19:52:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T19:52:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-27T19:23:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, Drmies. I was wondering if you can mediate between me and Beyond My Ken, or point me to an admin who can. Thanks. Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 18:13, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T18:13:00.000Z","author":"Epicgenius","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Epicgenius-2013-11-26T18:13:00.000Z-Hi","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-26T18:36:00.000Z-Epicgenius-2013-11-26T18:13:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Hmm, maybe not. BMK and I go back a long way, mostly cordially and positively, and I may not be as objective there. That's not to say I like him, of course, with his Yankee mannerisms and his love of musical comedy. Listen, I got a weird suggestion for you; let me preface it with some prose. A long time ago Baseball Bugs was thought by some^{[weasel words]} to be a disruptive presence at ANI, God knows why. One of the proposals was predictable: ban Bugs from the board. Well, banish plum Bugs, and banish all the world. A better proposal was offered: to make Bugs the Prime Officiator of ANI. It didn't fly, of course, but there was sense in it: the responsibility would make him a positive yada yada. I loved the idea.

  I'm frequently accused of going off on tangents, but there's a method to the madness: you were blocked by Bwilkins -- hold on, the family is coming back and I have work to do. BBL. See where I'm going? Drmies (talk) 18:36, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T18:36:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-26T18:36:00.000Z-Epicgenius-2013-11-26T18:13:00.000Z","replies":["c-Epicgenius-2013-11-26T19:03:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T18:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Yes, yes I do. As you know, BMK can be like Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz, trying to trap Perry the Platypus in a cage, but failing miserably, and instead, trapping the whole world be kind of headstrong at times. Since you know him better than I do, I'm turning to you. Epicgenius^{(give him tirade • check out damage)} 19:03, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T19:03:00.000Z","author":"Epicgenius","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Epicgenius-2013-11-26T19:03:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T18:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-EatsShootsAndLeaves-2013-11-26T21:41:00.000Z-Epicgenius-2013-11-26T19:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

Looks like you missed the good Dr's point ... badly ES&L 21:41, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T21:41:00.000Z","author":"EatsShootsAndLeaves","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-EatsShootsAndLeaves-2013-11-26T21:41:00.000Z-Epicgenius-2013-11-26T19:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-26T21:55:00.000Z-EatsShootsAndLeaves-2013-11-26T21:41:00.000Z"],"displayName":"ES"}}-->

Wouldn't be the first time: Bradspeak is not my forte. Epicgenius, my suggestion was going to be to ask Bwilkins, or his deputy panda, EatsShootsAndLeaves. First of all, they may yet feel guilt over having blocked you ("believe me, it hurts me more than you"), and second, well, they're in a position right now where their diplomacy is called upon continuously. Besides, Bwilkins/ESL is, in my humble opinion, a good person who spreads his bad temper equally to all sides. Panda, what do you think? And thanks for picking up on my weird plan. Drmies (talk) 21:55, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T21:55:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-26T21:55:00.000Z-EatsShootsAndLeaves-2013-11-26T21:41:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-26T22:52:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T21:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

I left a message on Epicgenius' talk page proposing a return to the status quo ante. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:52, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T22:52:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-26T22:52:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T21:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I saw you wrote 'I'm not going to overturn this block, but if you wish to bring this up at AN for a review (if TigerShark does not wish to reconsider), you have my support.' over at Shark's talk page. Honestly, I think you should reconsider that decision. Shark's block has been questioned and now me(I just stepped into this today). Shark's behavior to me after I asked him questions, is incomprehensible and calls into serious question his judgment. Shark answered my questions, but not on Joe's talk page, but in a thread on his own talk page that had been inactive for two days and in which I had never taken part in. It wasn't an accident either. Over seven years of editing at WP, and I've never seen that done before. A discusses something with B at C but B replies at B's page rather than C. There is no reason to do that other than to lock Joe out of it. Shark's recent decisions and behavior are questionable to put it mildly. Can you end this? I am asking that respectfully but should Joe's block continue, I have to bring it to ANI....William 21:33, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T21:33:00.000Z","author":"WilliamJE","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-WilliamJE-2013-11-26T21:33:00.000Z-TigerShark's_block_of_Joefromrandb","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-26T21:51:00.000Z-WilliamJE-2013-11-26T21:33:00.000Z"],"displayName":"...William"}}-->

• I think the block is too long, for sure, but as I said before, I won't overturn it singlehandedly. Please bring it up at AN, if you wish to do something about it; I appreciate your effort and advocacy. Drmies (talk) 21:51, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T21:51:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-26T21:51:00.000Z-WilliamJE-2013-11-26T21:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Thomas.W-2013-11-26T22:17:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T21:51:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • The problem is that a simple foot soldier, that is someone who is not an admin, who brings a complaint against an admin to ANI doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell to get anyone to do anything about the problem, no matter how compelling the evidence is. My personal opinion about TigerShark, who got his admin rights when they were given out to anyone who wanted them, but now believes he's as infallible as the Pope, is that he is so utterly incompetent that he should be stripped of his admin rights (in addition to totally lacking social competence), but I realise that there is no point in me bringing anything to ANI. So to lower my blood pressure I have decided to do the only thing that I can do in this situation, that is find something else to do, off Wikipedia. Thomas.W ^{talk to me} 22:17, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T22:17:00.000Z","author":"Thomas.W","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Thomas.W-2013-11-26T22:17:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-26T21:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-WilliamJE-2013-11-26T22:28:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-26T22:17:00.000Z"]}}-->
    • Drmies, I will be bringing it up at ANI in the next few days. I will notify you after doing so. That goes for you too Tom if you want to take part.
    • My objective is to get Joe's block overturned or shortened, not get into trying to chop down TigerShark. Tom, I never engaged with this administrator before today and I am in agreement with much of what you wrote above(go read what I've written at TigerShark's talk page), but I'm going to do this as an effort to bail out Joe. I think he was badly wronged and from the looks of it, I'm not the only one holding that opinion....William 22:28, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T22:28:00.000Z","author":"WilliamJE","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-WilliamJE-2013-11-26T22:28:00.000Z-Thomas.W-2013-11-26T22:17:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"...William"}}-->

I have created a new report on the ANI noticeboard regarding the block of Joefromrandb. TigerShark (talk) 23:17, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-26T23:17:00.000Z","author":"TigerShark","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-TigerShark-2013-11-26T23:17:00.000Z-WP:ANI","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-27T06:35:00.000Z-TigerShark-2013-11-26T23:17:00.000Z","c-Elaqueate-2013-11-27T15:01:00.000Z-TigerShark-2013-11-26T23:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

• And I just cleaned the house, picked up my parents at the airport, and made like a good husband by watching Channel Z with Mrs. Drmies. You'll pardon me if I partook heavily of beers and liquors because fuck, whatever Wikipedia can throw at a person, nothing's worse than fucking zombies. Drmies (talk) 06:35, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T06:35:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-27T06:35:00.000Z-TigerShark-2013-11-26T23:17:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for putting the concept of a wikipedia users/zombies mashup into my head. I am now a little scared. I wonder what page the outbreak would start in? Never mind this message. __ E L A Q U E A T E 15:01, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T15:01:00.000Z","author":"Elaqueate","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Elaqueate-2013-11-27T15:01:00.000Z-TigerShark-2013-11-26T23:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-27T16:14:00.000Z-Elaqueate-2013-11-27T15:01:00.000Z"],"displayName":"__ E L A Q U E A T E"}}-->

• Oh, I seriously needed to vent last night. Mrs. Drmies regretted her decision about three minutes in, but we stuck it out. I found that scary movies are much more bearable when you take your glasses off. And now off to ANI. (Also, my school has an annual zombie event, to recruit students for Liberal Arts--"we just want your brains". I don't participate in those festivities.) Drmies (talk) 16:14, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T16:14:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-27T16:14:00.000Z-Elaqueate-2013-11-27T15:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-27T20:15:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-27T16:14:00.000Z"]}}-->

• If you're not familiar with it already, you should take a look at our article on the philosophical concept of the zombie, it's very interesting. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:15, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-27T20:15:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-11-27T20:15:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-27T16:14:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello Drmies/Archive 60! Thank you for your contributions to articles related to Women artists. I'd like to invite you to become a part of WikiProject Women artists, a WikiProject aimed at improving the quality of articles about women artists on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the WikiProject Women artists page for more information. Feel free to sign your name under "Members". I look forward to your involvement!

SarahStierch (talk) 02:14, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T02:14:00.000Z","author":"SarahStierch","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SarahStierch-2013-11-28T02:14:00.000Z-You're_invited_to_join_WikiProject_Women_artists!","replies":[]}}-->

Please see Talk:Patrick_Califia#Discussion_of_Sources_for_the_.28alleged.29_Age_of_Consent_Controversy. Sportfan5000 (talk) 04:52, 28 November 2013 (UTC) I think the first half has to be rev/del - those sources are particularly bad and the 'unexperienced' editor quotes them. The third reference is fine. Sportfan5000 (talk) 05:08, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T04:52:00.000Z","author":"Sportfan5000","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sportfan5000-2013-11-28T04:52:00.000Z-Another_editor_has_enter_the_discussion_at_Talk:Patrick_Califia","replies":["c-Two_kinds_of_pork-2013-11-28T05:35:00.000Z-Sportfan5000-2013-11-28T04:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

If anything has to be deleted, (Dmries) you might consider restoring the portions that are not offensive. However how can an honest discussion take place if the sources are prohibited from being talked about? I'm not fond of silencing anyone (as my comment of SF5K's talk page earlier might suggest)Two kinds of pork (talk) 05:35, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T05:35:00.000Z","author":"Two kinds of pork","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Two_kinds_of_pork-2013-11-28T05:35:00.000Z-Sportfan5000-2013-11-28T04:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-28T20:50:00.000Z-Two_kinds_of_pork-2013-11-28T05:35:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:00:00.000Z-Two_kinds_of_pork-2013-11-28T05:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

Removing BLP violations is not "silencing" someone, Two kinds of pork, and I'd appreciate it if you could drop the help someone is being oppressed rhetoric. Drmies (talk) 20:50, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T20:50:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-28T20:50:00.000Z-Two_kinds_of_pork-2013-11-28T05:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Sportfan, I'm not removing anything. The sourcing for the first part is atrocious and I don't understand why Shelly Pixie would think that something like that could ever make it into an article (it won't): note that these are unreliable sources who report on a quote from an interview that was supposedly listed on an advocacy website. Seriously. So we're going to say, "According to World Net Daily, a quote from an interview with person X with magazine Y was listed on the website of advocacy group Z, and this is the quote..." No, we're not: it's a back-ass-handed way of getting something titillating in an article, and it's not going to happen. Drmies (talk) 21:00, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T21:00:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:00:00.000Z-Two_kinds_of_pork-2013-11-28T05:35:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sportfan5000-2013-11-28T21:03:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

OK, thanks for looking. Sportfan5000 (talk) 21:03, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T21:03:00.000Z","author":"Sportfan5000","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Sportfan5000-2013-11-28T21:03:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shelly_Pixie-2013-11-28T21:32:00.000Z-Sportfan5000-2013-11-28T21:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

I have been attempting to get the original quote from the original article, which was from The Advocate. I am not attempting to get something titillating into the article. I was requested by Sportfan5000 on two occasions to share what I had found so far. As you can see from the heading of that section, it was intended as discussion space about which sources could or could not be used to support a point. I am yet to see any sources brought by other editors which say the multiple citings of Califia supporting paedophilia are unfounded. Should these be presented, I will happily conceded that the topic is contested and therefore controversial. Please also note, whilst I may be inexperienced in using the wiki interface (and I am horrified by the clause that primary sources written by the BLP themselves are discounted as evidence) I am an academic. Lesser sources on their own are poor editorial choices. However, when lesser sources are combined with more weighty sources, along with primary data which also supports a point, this all contributes to the weight of a statement showing the transmission through a society and different reactions of that society to the original statements. I clearly stated I was refraining from including sources from religious arganisations and their press, as these are far from neutral where homosexuality, trans* people or alternative sexualities are concerned. As soon as I can access my academic library, I will be reading and citing the primary sources where Califia himself speaks about these aspects of his politics and history of thought. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shelly Pixie (talk • contribs) 21:32, 28 November 2013 (UTC) Shelly Pixie (talk) 21:36, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T21:32:00.000Z","author":"Shelly Pixie","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Shelly_Pixie-2013-11-28T21:32:00.000Z-Sportfan5000-2013-11-28T21:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:43:00.000Z-Shelly_Pixie-2013-11-28T21:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

Please look for secondary sources--see WP:PRIMARY. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 21:43, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T21:43:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:43:00.000Z-Shelly_Pixie-2013-11-28T21:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shelly_Pixie-2013-11-29T02:10:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:43:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you. I would argue that the following applies: "Unless restricted by another policy, primary sources that have been reliably published may be used in Wikipedia; but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them.[4] Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation. A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the source but without further, specialized knowledge. For example, an article about a novel may cite passages to describe the plot, but any interpretation needs a secondary source." from WP:PRIMARY. Furthermore, this on self published sources may apply in some instances where this BLP is concerned. Shelly Pixie (talk) 02:10, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-29T02:10:00.000Z","author":"Shelly Pixie","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Shelly_Pixie-2013-11-29T02:10:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:43:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shelly_Pixie-2013-11-29T05:48:00.000Z-Shelly_Pixie-2013-11-29T02:10:00.000Z"]}}-->

Post-Script to this conversation regarding primary v secondary sources. I would like to point out that where some articles are concerned, extensive use of primary sources is considered acceptable where a BLP's thoughts and politics are being summarised. For example Patrick Baert's wikipaedia entry. I agree that for this BLP, with the claims being made, that excellent referencing is required. However, I do not believe well quoted/summarised primary references would be unacceptable, in fact, I believe for such bold claims as are being made, they are absolutely necessary. Shelly Pixie (talk) 05:48, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-29T05:48:00.000Z","author":"Shelly Pixie","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Shelly_Pixie-2013-11-29T05:48:00.000Z-Shelly_Pixie-2013-11-29T02:10:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

But if the "bold claim" is made by way of the primary source, then synthesis is a necessary byproduct of interpretation. Quotes such as the one we're talking about always need context, and WorldNewsDaily can't provide that. Drmies (talk) 20:08, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-29T20:08:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-29T20:08:00.000Z-Another_editor_has_enter_the_discussion_at_Talk:Patrick_Califia","replies":["c-Two_kinds_of_pork-2013-11-28T22:57:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-29T20:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

As you should recall, I empathized with the frustration of the ip editor who felt discussion was being censored. BLP should removed but all I suggested was not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. No need to ratchet this upTwo kinds of pork (talk) 22:57, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T22:57:00.000Z","author":"Two kinds of pork","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Two_kinds_of_pork-2013-11-28T22:57:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-29T20:08:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-29T01:12:00.000Z-Two_kinds_of_pork-2013-11-28T22:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

I do recall, and I am asking you to not jack it up with talk of "silencing". Drmies (talk) 01:12, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-29T01:12:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-29T01:12:00.000Z-Two_kinds_of_pork-2013-11-28T22:57:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

... you are all missing the doggy topics on here! Could someone help me by having a quick look at Boxer (dog), please? I have just again reverted (someone quickly cover up Drmies' block button) what appears to me to be very close paraphrasing. I've left three messages on the editor's talk page, Sarbagyastha, that don't seem to be having any effect. A revert was also done by Bobrayner [13] after I tried to flag the problem on WP:DOGS earlier this month. Or am I just being paranoid/pedantic/a total pain? SagaciousPhil - Chat 10:59, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T10:59:00.000Z","author":"Sagaciousphil","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sagaciousphil-2013-11-28T10:59:00.000Z-Just_in_case_...","replies":[]}}-->

I am not at all sure this is correct, and that is my oppinion. This is what AKC ( American breed standard says) : Color: The colors are fawn and brindle. Fawn shades vary from light tan to mahogany. The brindle ranges from sparse but clearly defined black stripes on a fawn background to such a heavy concentration of black striping that the essential fawn background color barely, although clearly, shows through (which may create the appearance of reverse brindling). White markings, if present, should be of such distribution as to enhance the dog's appearance, but may not exceed one-third of the entire coat. They are not desirable on the flanks or on the back of the torso proper. On the face, white may replace part of the otherwise essential black mask, and may extend in an upward path between the eyes, but it must not be excessive, so as to detract from true Boxer expression. The absence of white markings, the so-called "plain" fawn or brindle, is perfectly acceptable, and should not be penalized in any consideration of color. Disqualifications Boxers that are any color other than fawn or brindle. Boxers with a total of white markings exceeding one-third of the entire coat. Somebody put no more that 4 pictures with all white boxers in the article, and one in the lead. . Hafspajen (talk) 17:45, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T17:45:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T17:45:00.000Z-Just_in_case_...","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:01:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T17:45:00.000Z"]}}-->

• There was a dog show on TV and I saw a nice-looking German shepherd, but I chose to take a nap instead. Drmies (talk) 21:01, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T21:01:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:01:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T17:45:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T21:30:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

What but????????????? Hafspajen (talk) 21:30, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T21:30:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T21:30:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-11-28T21:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T22:07:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T21:30:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T22:15:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T21:30:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T22:07:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T21:30:00.000Z-1","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-29T22:46:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T21:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

This is just vuilnis. Hafspajen (talk) 22:07, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T22:07:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T22:07:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T21:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-11-28T22:13:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T22:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks. Drmies (talk) 22:13, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T22:13:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-11-28T22:13:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T22:07:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Good boy, man. Hafspajen (talk) 22:15, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T22:15:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T22:15:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T21:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Your page stalkers can always do something else, if it makes them sick. Masochists should take responsibility for their stalking. What I wanted to ask, what happened to Winston Churchill? I was just about to improve an article with that picture...? Warrington (talk) 22:07, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-28T22:07:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T22:07:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T21:30:00.000Z-1","replies":[],"displayName":"Warrington"}}-->
• Sheldon Cooper has multiple issues, just you know. Hafspajen (talk) 22:46, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-29T22:46:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-29T22:46:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-28T21:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello Drmies, you can call me 74. When I first started stalking your talkpage, I read back a few sections, and noticed a dispute between Mr.choppers and a good-faith editor of engine-data. I've recently become an incurable dispute busy-body, so I investigated the edit-history. I'm also trying to improve WP:RETENTION, and in particular, would like to see wikipedia attract folks from around the internet who have expertise that wikipedia needs: physicists, television trivia addicts, high school teachers, and engine experts. In this particular case, see User_talk:24.136.28.106. Their slow edit-war was mostly back when they were User_talk:98.193.61.234, and before that at their earlier dynamics they never had wiki-troubles as far as I know.

So, there are a few goals I'd like to get worked out here. First, where is the border at which encyclopedic-slash-almanac-data crosses over into wikiversity-howto-stuff, and from there to external-wiki-and-forum-fancruft. Second, what to do about Reliable Sources for automotive data, given that the manufacturers purposely keep service-manual-data secret, as a means to customer-lock-in. Third, as part of working out the earlier two questions, broker a peace treaty betwixt 24 and Mr.choppers, so that they can work together productively, each doing what they like, mutually improving wikipedia. You can reply here if you like, but for faster turnaround, it might help if you make a section on my talkpage so I get the orange-bar-alerts. Danke. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 22:47, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-29T22:47:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-11-29T22:47:00.000Z-discussion_about_Honda-engine-editor_currently_undergoing_service_in_my_editor-m","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-11-29T23:12:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-11-29T22:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Oh, there you are Mr X. Thought you might come by to visit. Hope that Drmies will be able to help you. Actually, You know, a real username is a much better incognito, than an IP. Hafspajen (talk) 23:12, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-29T23:12:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-29T23:12:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-11-29T22:47:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-11-29T23:49:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-29T23:12:00.000Z","c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-29T23:19:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-29T23:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

Don't tell anybody, but my screen name is 74.XXX, did I tell you I had a hand deep in Rumskulla_oak, say no more? I expect Drmies will gladly help, MrsDrmies drives a Honda, they do *not* want engine-troubles due to wikipedia misleading the local repair-shop.  :-)   I'm with you on the cognito aspect, but I'm philosophically opposed to having a uid; the encyclopedia anyone can edit, has a pretty specific meaning to me. I'm in favor of letting people opt to create a uid, it shows they have pride in being a wikipedian, and for that I'm proud of them, but I never want it to be de facto nor de jure a requirement. Maybe you should call me 0074, that has a nice mysterious ring. Nah, just 74 will do, methinks. Anyways, don't be jealous, I'll visit your talkpage someday, just try and get some of the nudes archived please. Of course, Drmies ain't much better in that lewd respect; every damn time I post here I have to avert my eyes from the sultry water-dog flirt. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 23:49, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-29T23:49:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-11-29T23:49:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-29T23:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I never thought of "choppers" linking me to motorcycles, but I see it now... Anyhow, I don't have the energy to find the edits in question, but I did offer 98 to help him format references if he gave me something to go by. As the Honda D engine article has always been a target of well-meaning but often incorrect ip editing (as well as basic vandalism, see the edit history for hundreds of ips changing the power of "their" engine to 600hp) I have a low threshold on that one. I have no fundamental argument with 98 except his being so quick to take offense and never reading what I say, but would be happy to assist him in reference formatting etcetera. As an aside, some highly specific data (head codes and so on) is probably outside of WP's scope, being more suited to a model specific forum. But that's another conversation. Cheers,  Mr.choppers | ✎  23:19, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-29T23:19:00.000Z","author":"Mr.choppers","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-29T23:19:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-29T23:12:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-11-29T23:49:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-29T23:19:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T01:17:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-29T23:19:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Mr.choppers\u00a0|"}}-->

Yes, I saw the diffs when I backtracked, you did things very well -- you and 24 got off on the wrong foot, back in 2012, because you were doing a mass cleanup, and deleted their good stuff along with some vandalism by other anons, and left an edit summary that *called* it all vandalism, putting 24 on the defensive. Then you added ^{[citation needed]} to their contribution, which is perfectly fair... but because Honda keeps such a tight control on their spec-data, pretty much everything on the page is citation-needed... but only 24's info was snark-tagged, so they felt singled out. It all went downhill from there, because they've never read our five bazillion policies.

  Anyhoo, you did nothing wrong, you apologized for your mistaken edit-summary right away, and offered to help with referencing, and most especially kept your cool even when 24 lost their temper; I appreciate that greatly, thanks. But I'm actually more interested in knowing where you think the line is, for data-inclusion.

  For instance, there are a ton of different part-number-codes (like fifteen or twenty) for the ECU of the D15B8 alone. The head-codes I agree are prolly not encyclopedic, they belong in an automotive-repair-textbook over at wikiversity. Does such a thing exist? As for things like gear-teeth-counts, I would argue those *do* belong here in wikipedia, since calculating final drive-ratios is impossible without knowing the tooth-counts from the engine to the wheels... but am I right? I don't edit the automotive stuff, I just depend on it. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 23:49, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-29T23:49:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-11-29T23:49:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-29T23:19:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Hafspajen (talk) 01:17, 30 November 2013 (UTC)^{Where is my friendly nonsense? All this make perfect sense to me...}[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-30T01:17:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T01:17:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-29T23:19:00.000Z","replies":["c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-30T08:47:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T01:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

I don't know why we are having this (constructive) conversation here on drmies' talkpage, could we move it somewhere? Anyhoo, I personally don't think even the gear teeth belong here but I wouldn't ever delete such content. I sometimes worry that my own edits are adding chaff and fancruft, but the lines are very blurry so whatever. I wish there was more textual content, rather than just lists, on the D engine page as well. Alas, I don't have any sources whatsoever. And how did that dog get there? I'm gonna have to do something like that.  Mr.choppers | ✎  08:47, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-30T08:47:00.000Z","author":"Mr.choppers","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-30T08:47:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T01:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-11-30T13:34:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-30T08:47:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Mr.choppers\u00a0|"}}-->

Yes, I suggest we adjourn to my talkpage, and figure out at least a two-person consensus on where the fuzzy line should be, with respect to Honda engines. Plus figure out what to do about sources; the business model of the automotive repair industry is only to *sell* the technical data necessary to perform repairs, never to CCBYSA that info, so it is a long-term problems for more than just Honda_D stuff.

  But to answer your question, the reason I started here with Drmies, is because they are the admin who is one step away from perma-banning 24 under WP:NPA, and they have semi-protected the Honda page until April so that neither 24 nor myself can add anything now ... plus also wiped the five off-wiki forums. So methinks they have a opinion on where the fuzzy line ought to lie, but also, have a negative opinion of 24 that I'd like to reverse (by training 24 so that going forward they always follow WP:NICE). 74.192.84.101 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-30T13:34:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-11-30T13:34:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-30T08:47:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I wouldn't want to start drawing that kind of line: it's not my expertise. I would not disregard Honda manuals because they're primary material--part numbers and all that are not really contentious. The other IP should understand that disruptive editing of various kinds is liable to lead an observant non-expert to side with the opposing side, especially in ongoing edit wars. (I'll wipe off-wiki forums whoever put them in: it's not what we should be linking.) If the other IP wants to engage in discussion, that's great: I'd rather have them on board as an editor since they have helpful expertise, but they should play by the rules.

As for Mrs. Drmies's Hondyssey, I trust that the dealer doesn't rely on Wikipedia for their information, and the local shop that worked on my old Camry probably doesn't either (for the record, it's John Aehnlich's shop on Cloverdale, and they're fantastic). But my new set of wheels gets 40 MPG and is a bit newer, and will probably be serviced by the Toyota dealer. 74, thanks for stopping by. Call me again if you need a ride--the six-cylinder needs a brake job first. Drmies (talk) 04:17, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T04:17:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:17:00.000Z-discussion_about_Honda-engine-editor_currently_undergoing_service_in_my_editor-m","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T16:56:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yeah, the fuzzy-line-thing will need to be discussed by folks that like Mr.choppers and 24 that know something, and we'll have to bring in others once we get a local consensus on the line drawn, because this is a cross-article decision with larger ramifications than just the one engine. I can *complain* about the overall problem from the sidelines, because there *is* a problem, and you put your finger right on it. The dealership does not rely on wikipedia. The dealership relies on official service manuals. Those are considered trade secrets. They are kept from the public. "Independent" mechanics that want to be able to work, have to pay the entry-fee.

  Wikipedia is the antidote to their poisonous information-hoarding (or in some cases Wikiversity is the antidote... once we cross the to-be-defined line from generally-useful data into specialized-training-howto). But look at the article about the D15B8, err, make that the D15B8. Almost 75 engines, and maybe one-tenth of the facts are sourced, in *any* way at all, even to some vague "honda manual" of unspecified vintage (let alone page-number). This scenario represents a special bottleneck, because the sources themselves are kept under lock and key. We may have to make some judicious use of WP:IAR, but I think we can get 'er done, as the saying goes.

  p.s. As for the external-fansite-thing, it is valid to keep them around in rare cases, if the stuff is a Unique Resource beyond what wikipedia will *ever* contain. See WP:ELNO #1, WP:ELMAYBE #4 (plus ctrl-f "fansite" on that page), and the exception in WP:LINKFARM #1. That said, I'm not sure whether that WP:OMG list applies to the links you deleted, but prolly 24 will know.  :-)

  p.p.s. You are hereby alerted, I've filed a formal complaint on six noticeboards about your blatant WP:COI and your constant spamming of non-wikiNotable Aehnlich Toyota, their nasty underhanded editing-by-proxy through you shall be slain, for the evil PR spam it embodies! Death to wiki-PR, and death to the dealerships of Cloverdale! <insert sound of coconuts clopping together>  ;-)   Next time I'm in the area, I'll take you up on the kind offer to take a gander at your little two-wheeler moped. (Ooh! burn!) — 74.192.84.101 (talk) 16:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T16:56:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T16:56:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T17:08:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T16:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Disambiguate: that's Cloverdale, Montgomery, and the Cloverdale Service Station is actually on Cloverdale, so there. I'll also plug the local bakery and coffee shop, the movie theater, and the burrito place (and that's good food)--and did you offer to buy me a beer? Thanks! One more thing: we have parades still, for Christmas and the Fourth of July, so that's old-style America for you. Drmies (talk) 17:08, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T17:08:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T17:08:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T16:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-07T16:35:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T17:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

GOOD FOOD!!?!! You are gonna go straight to wiki-Heck fer that one, whyncha just break NPOV's knees with the handle of a shovel, you redacted. I am grumpy!  :-)   — 74.192.84.101 (talk) 16:35, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T16:35:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-07T16:35:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T17:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Have an User: Something ...,account than... What is this weird animosity about getting yourself an userpage and an account? Problem with getting yourself a name? Ask Anythingyouwant, expertise is there, and look here. Why_create_an_account Only the Swedish king is so obstinate, that he refuses to get himself an username, but everybody knows anyway that it is him. Hafspajen (talk) 14:42, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-30T14:42:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T14:42:00.000Z-On_the_subject_of_pseudonyms_for_74,_feminine_and_otherwise","replies":["c-Yngvadottir-2013-11-30T15:58:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T14:42:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T16:04:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T14:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

(talk page stalker) It's a point of principle with 74 here. And it's actually a bit horrifyingly useful as a way of showing how Wikipedia treats IP editors - for one thing his edits keep getting tagged as "self-promotion in userspace" for some bizarre bot reason. Now tell us all about the Swedish king and how folks know it's him - I presume this is over on sv.? And what's the tip-off, a unique IP or some twist of phrase, or is this really just a theory based on his editing pattern?? Yngvadottir (talk) 15:58, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-30T15:58:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2013-11-30T15:58:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T14:42:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Well, yes it is an editing pattern. And he keeps editing all the articles about old members of the royal family and other members of court life and actually all kinds of people, really. And than he mentions that he is interested because he was working att the castle as internship when he was young. Ok, it could be som other member of the royal family, or possibly a servant but the guy is to well informed. telling stories about what happened in this and that location, when somebody said this and that, and it was funny and so on... and how could he know that, unless he was there. Some are not even published. Yes, I know. We should kick his as and sprinkle unsourced on it... Hafspajen (talk) 16:04, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-30T16:04:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T16:04:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T14:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-30T21:46:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T16:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

Having dealt with massive amounts of ip vandalism recently, I personally feel that en.wp needs to tighten its relation to ips. With smart phones etcetera, vandals are now able to do their dirty work in a way that is hard to slow down without range blocks - which have a heavier impact on editors who try to remain incognito. In German Wikipedia ip edits are unseen until reviewed by registered editors, a system which raises the entry barrier (cost) but lowers vandalism and accidental edits (reward). Hell, you could start an account as User:74-192-84-101, I think that would be a good name!  Mr.choppers | ✎  21:46, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-30T21:46:00.000Z","author":"Mr.choppers","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Mr.choppers-2013-11-30T21:46:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T16:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:30:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-30T21:46:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Mr.choppers\u00a0|"}}-->

Flaming red balls of motorcycle fire! Soon you'll have a 1600cc six-cyl hotrod like Bros Drmies.  :-)   Yes, putting up obstacles would help lower vandalism, sure. But it would also help kill retention. We already have too many editors getting driven off: enWiki just fell below 30k actives, this month.

  My plan for dealing with vandalism is simple. Instead of 30k-and-falling editors, trying to hold back the tide of 200M-and-rising unique readers per month, I suggest we start boosting retention until we have 90k, 300k, 900k, even 3M active editors. Rather than just *one* Mr.choppers patrolling ten articles, why not have ten patrollers per article? Surely at least one out of a hundred of the ~200M uniques we get every month are Good Eggs, right? 74.192.84.101 (talk) 00:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T00:30:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:30:00.000Z-Mr.choppers-2013-11-30T21:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Nice new colour, Mr Choppers. Why not User:4711? or is it too feminine? Hafspajen (talk) 22:08, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-11-30T22:08:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T22:08:00.000Z-On_the_subject_of_pseudonyms_for_74,_feminine_and_otherwise","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:30:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T22:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

How about this?

‮User_talk:74.192.84.101 ‭

Yeah, my evil-mirror-twin, the logged-in version of me! As a bonus, 291 is outside the bounds of IP4 addressing, so nobody would be able to traceroute me except unicode wizards. Trace me... wait... WP:OMG! I just figured out that Yngvadottir when reversed is Rittodavgny, also known as Ritto Davgny, which as everyone knows, in elder futhark is a straightforward gloss meaning... King Of The Kvens! All hail Kvenland! — 74.192.84.101 (talk) 00:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T00:30:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:30:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-11-30T22:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

You are crazy, man, as one evil IP would have said. I say this :4711 would be perfect for you! Hafspajen (talk) 00:47, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T00:47:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T00:47:00.000Z-On_the_subject_of_pseudonyms_for_74,_feminine_and_otherwise","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T11:35:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T00:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

• "Names are funny things".[14] as Anythingyouwant said. But of course you should not put on a name like: "I want to fuck the world", or Hitler-baby" or "Wickedpedia", because than you will get blocked right away.Hafspajen (talk) 11:35, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T11:35:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T11:35:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T00:47:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Perhaps 74 doesn't want a label?

A name is just a label that attracts one's attention when someone yells it. Fiddle Faddle 17:11, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T17:11:00.000Z","author":"Timtrent","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Timtrent-2013-12-03T17:11:00.000Z-On_the_subject_of_pseudonyms_for_74,_feminine_and_otherwise","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-07T16:35:00.000Z-Timtrent-2013-12-03T17:11:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Fiddle"}}-->

From now on, I wish to be known as ※ to those that wish not to offend me. Anyone who calls me the editor-formerly-known-as-74 is asking for vague and non-specific metaphorical trouble. You have been warned. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 16:35, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T16:35:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-07T16:35:00.000Z-Timtrent-2013-12-03T17:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Ananny, it is here[15] an Ip who tries to fix this again. Hafspajen (talk) 00:04, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T00:04:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T00:04:00.000Z-Is_this_some","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:52:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T00:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

Apparently.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:184.148.25.225
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lightworks99
3. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Terry_Ananny.JPG
4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Terry-Marie_Ananny

Good eye. I've left a message on the talkpage 184, to see what they will say. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 00:52, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T00:52:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:52:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T00:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:56:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:52:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T00:58:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

Note that the anon may *not* be Terry, although it seems clear that Lightworks99 is probably Terry, or at least, a fan of Terry. Possibly 184 was just fighting what they saw as vandalism, the deletion of an imagefile without an English reason, as opposed to a wikiJargon reason. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 00:56, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T00:56:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:56:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Nice catch too. You can of course not be an admin, whitout an username, but the talent is there... Se, if you were one, you could have blocked him right away, 74 - 11...Hafspajen (talk) 00:58, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T00:58:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T00:58:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T00:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T01:29:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T00:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ah, I could have perma-banned the IP-range, but that is the wrong approach, methinks. This person (female btw) has been trying to get her artwork into wikipedia for seven years. She believes there is a conspiracy to keep her work out ("rival art galleries" she believes are the ones who keep deleting her). We can block her again, of course, and Lightworks99 has already been blocked. But without checkuser, we cannot know if 184 and Lightworks99 are the same humanoid. More to the point, perhaps she will listen to me, when I explain that she is not being deleted by rivals, but simply by anti-spam wikipedians. There is a person who was deleting blog-sourced stuff about how Israel nuked the Syrians this summer... when the stuff was deleted 60 seconds after being uploaded, they accused the person who made the revert of being a CIA plant. It was a joke, but the reverter thought they were serious, and took offense, reported them to AN/I, nearly got them banned, over a simple misunderstanding.

  Anyways, if Terry-the-artist were to upload her pics *without* insisting on tagging them with her name, we would be happy to accept them, right? She could create a "Terry Ananny" username, and 'promote' herself in that fashion, perhaps. The whole point of blocking and banning is to prevent disruption, but it actually does not work very damn well. Look at 24, he's been "blocked" by semi-prot at least three times, but keeps coming back, because he believes wikipedia needs his expertise. Terry has been perma-banned umpteen times, but she keeps coming back too, believing that the world deserves her CCBYSA artwork. Anyways, I don't have much hope I can convert her... but stranger things have happened, and it won't take long to find out. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 01:29, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T01:29:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T01:29:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T00:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-01T04:24:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T01:29:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T12:55:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T01:29:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T14:07:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T01:29:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm glad to find a discussion about this. I noticed that in the last week a new collection of images has been uploaded by a User:Lightworks99 on Commons: Seven new uploads. That's how I discovered the latest addition to Christmas card that's becoming a minor edit war. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 04:24, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T04:24:00.000Z","author":"Uncle Milty","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-01T04:24:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T01:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T11:25:00.000Z-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-01T04:24:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Sigh.Hafspajen (talk) 11:25, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T11:25:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T11:25:00.000Z-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-01T04:24:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• As 4711 says : Anyways, if Terry-the-artist were to upload her pics *without* insisting on tagging them with her name, we would be happy to accept them, right? Has anyone took this approach with her? I mean , those paintings are kind of cute, even if it is not great artwork. Hafspajen (talk) 12:55, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T12:55:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T12:55:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T01:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-01T13:40:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T12:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

She's a permanently banned & blocked user who has gone to great lengths to circumvent that ban for purely promotional reasons and it's my opinion that nothing she has done should be allowed on WP. She's made it very clear that it is not her intent to contribute in any positive way to WP. Her only intent is to promote her works. Her actions have been very clear in that regard. Now if she somehow becomes independently notable some time in the future (and I do mean verifiably independently notable) then I could see the possibility that some mention of her notable accomplishments would belong on WP. Until such time, no. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 13:40, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T13:40:00.000Z","author":"Uncle Milty","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-01T13:40:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T12:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Well, than that's it. Hafspajen (talk) 14:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T14:07:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T14:07:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-01T01:29:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Yowza. Just wow.  davidiad { t } 03:28, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T03:28:00.000Z","author":"Davidiad","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Davidiad-2013-12-01T03:28:00.000Z-Um,_wow.","replies":["c-The_ed17-2013-12-01T04:53:00.000Z-Davidiad-2013-12-01T03:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

Super excited that I won't have to watch Alabama in the national championship (again). Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 04:53, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T04:53:00.000Z","author":"The ed17","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-The_ed17-2013-12-01T04:53:00.000Z-Davidiad-2013-12-01T03:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bgwhite-2013-12-01T05:44:00.000Z-The_ed17-2013-12-01T04:53:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Ed"}}-->

Shame on you for removing poor Abuie from your page. I'll just leave it here. I have to rub it in, my school has lost to its rival four straight years now. I need to lash out. Bgwhite (talk) 05:44, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T05:44:00.000Z","author":"Bgwhite","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bgwhite-2013-12-01T05:44:00.000Z-The_ed17-2013-12-01T04:53:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-01T16:06:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-12-01T05:44:00.000Z","c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T16:18:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-12-01T05:44:00.000Z"]}}-->

Am I wrong, but were a couple of the choices made by Nick Saban rather inexplicable? Certainly choosing to go with a freshman kicker trying a 57 yard field goal instead of a Hail Mary leading to probable overtime was strange (although who could have predicted the 100-yard run back of the missed kick?), but there were a couple of other choices earlier in the game (which unfortunately I can't recall now) which left me scratching my head. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:06, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T16:06:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-01T16:06:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-12-01T05:44:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:07:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-01T16:06:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm no better at Monday-morning quarterbacking than the next guy (although today's "next guys", and there was a whole bunch of them, certainly had their opinions). I'm just sad. Some days you win, some days you lose; we just got used to not losing. I didn't really understand the call either, but I'm not smart at football like Saban. Drmies (talk) 04:07, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T04:07:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:07:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-01T16:06:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-03T04:16:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

I have to say that for an observer with no strong attachment to either team, it was a very exciting game to watch, much more so than I thought it would be. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:16, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T04:16:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-03T04:16:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:07:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:27:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-03T04:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yeah, I wish it had been yet another boring Bama win... Also, The ed17, I love you like a brother, but fuck you. That's right. No one ever forced you to watch Bama in a national championship game, and if there is a next time, you can just not watch them the way I don't watch any of those boring corn-fed Midwestern teams. Hey QB, run it. Run it again. Oh, it's an option play. No, it's a run. Wow, that's exciting. Oh! Double/triple option! Drmies (talk) 04:27, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T04:27:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:27:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-03T04:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-The_ed17-2013-12-03T04:28:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

Love you too, Drmies! I'm a fan of an East Coast team that will remain nameless because they are having a terrible season. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 04:28, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T04:28:00.000Z","author":"The ed17","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-The_ed17-2013-12-03T04:28:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-03T05:32:00.000Z-The_ed17-2013-12-03T04:28:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Ed"}}-->

Is there an East Coast team that is not having a terrible season? Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:32, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T05:32:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-03T05:32:00.000Z-The_ed17-2013-12-03T04:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-03T05:36:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-03T05:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

(Florida State and UCF don't count, that's Florida, a whole nother thing from the East Coast. Duke comes closest, I guess.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:36, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T05:36:00.000Z","author":"Beyond My Ken","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-03T05:36:00.000Z-Beyond_My_Ken-2013-12-03T05:32:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

On another subject, who here is sucker enough kind enough to wikiBet me that, when Drmies runs for arbcom, nudge nudge wink wink say no more, somebody posts the above diff of the WP:NICE conversation betweeen Ed17 and the good Drmies as utterly incontrovertable evidence that Drmies is far too Dangerously Poisonous, And Thus Not To Be Trusted?   :-/     Wish I was kidding about my estimation of the likelihood... time will tell. — 74.192.84.101 (talk) 16:18, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T16:18:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T16:18:00.000Z-Bgwhite-2013-12-01T05:44:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Seeking your guidance (and action?) please...

You will probably recall that four weeks ago, as part of the resolution of a mess at AN/I, and many other places, there was put in place an interaction ban between Pete and me. I have fastidiously avoided posting where he has posted, even when I thought he was clearly pushing a POV. That was my understanding of the ban.

Today he has decided to join a thread I began on the Talk page of an Australian political article, even to the extent of changing the name of the thread that I created. The thread is Talk:Operation Sovereign Borders#Opinion in the Outcomes section. If that's not interacting, I don't know what is.

There is no way I would have ever commented in a thread begun by him. I am amazed by what he has done. I cannot see that his behaviour is acceptable in any way at all. I feel now that I can no longer comment in a thread I began. What happens now? Is it possible for him to now experience far more than the usual pointless warning for this, to me, blatant breach of our interaction ban?

If all he experiences is yet another warning, my thoughts on our justice systems will be even further reinforced. HiLo48 (talk) 10:04, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T10:04:00.000Z","author":"HiLo48","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-HiLo48-2013-12-01T10:04:00.000Z-Pete_(Skyring)_and_his_ban_on_interacting_with_me","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:21:00.000Z-HiLo48-2013-12-01T10:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Sorry HiLo48, but a warning is what it is. You are welcome to seek redress elsewhere, of course. His behavior broke the terms of the ban, of course, but I don't see what the point of a block is right now. You should feel free to take up your train of thought again in that thread (but please avoid taking explicit stabs at him personally), and Pete should know he'll be blocked if he reinserts himself there. I appreciate your efforts to hold up your end of the bargain. Drmies (talk) 15:21, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T15:21:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:21:00.000Z-HiLo48-2013-12-01T10:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-HiLo48-2013-12-02T20:45:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:21:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T16:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:21:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • Surely the point of a block would be to punish him for breaching the ban. He breached it! I didn't. I was trying bloody hard. What was he doing? Do these rules here mean anything here at all? He didn't just comment in the thread. He changed its name! It no longer has the title I gave it. It now looks, to someone who doesn't look at the history (and, of course, most don't) as if I gave it a different name, one with a quite different slant from the one I chose. That's not fair on me. I could have perhaps accepted some comment in the thread, but making it look like I wrote something that I didn't is surely completely unacceptable. It's effectively re-factoring another editor's post. Is it OK if I change it back? And if he changes it again? One of Wikipedia's weakest aspects is its perpetual pattern of perpetual warnings, followed by re-offending, followed by another warning, followed by re-offending, followed by another warning, followed by re-offending, followed by another warning, followed by..... "Please let this not happen again" on his Talk page is weak. And I note that he is arguing the point and doing one of his usual tricks, throwing selective quoting of policy around in defence of his misbehaviour. HE breached the ban. I didn't. Simple as that. He gets a "Please..." request. I still have to see his crap in the thread I began that now has the wrong name. Can I delete his contributions, since they shouldn't have been posted? I feel incredibly let down by this. Pretty sure you know what I think of Wikipedia's justice processes. They don't work. HiLo48 (talk) 20:45, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T20:45:00.000Z","author":"HiLo48","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-HiLo48-2013-12-02T20:45:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:21:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:29:00.000Z-HiLo48-2013-12-02T20:45:00.000Z"]}}-->
    • You may recall that I've been lenient with other editors as well. In your case, for instance, I shortened your month-long block by three weeks. If the minor change in the section is so unsettling to you that you can't look at it anymore, by all means change it back and state in your edit summary that it's fine by me. Don't remove his comments, just ignore them. Sorry, I just don't see the big deal. Besides, you cannot equate the "Wikimedia justice system" with me: I'm just one lenient ineffective little administrator who is probably way too optimistic. Drmies (talk) 03:29, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T03:29:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:29:00.000Z-HiLo48-2013-12-02T20:45:00.000Z","replies":["c-HiLo48-2013-12-03T04:43:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:29:00.000Z"]}}-->
      • Just too nice a guy, I guess. I guess also that I've been experiencing problems with this editor for far longer, too long to be optimistic any more. I won't have to change the title of the thread back though. Pete has done it himself, with the incredible Edit summary of "I shouldn't have changed the heading title. Please forgive honest mistake." If that was an honest mistake, he is incompetent. It's a feeling I've had about him for a long, long time. HiLo48 (talk) 04:43, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T04:43:00.000Z","author":"HiLo48","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-HiLo48-2013-12-03T04:43:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:59:00.000Z-HiLo48-2013-12-03T04:43:00.000Z"]}}-->
        • Mrs. Drmies and Mrs. Drmies's mom will beg to differ on that first point. I'm sure you saw that I left Pete a note. There's no need to ping him; he's watching, and pinging is a bit pointy. My first aim is to get through this without blocks and such and I've not yet given up on that. Take it easy, Drmies (talk) 04:59, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T04:59:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:59:00.000Z-HiLo48-2013-12-03T04:43:00.000Z","replies":["c-HiLo48-2013-12-03T06:21:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:59:00.000Z"]}}-->
          • Can YOU explain the "honest" mistake? HiLo48 (talk) 06:21, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T06:21:00.000Z","author":"HiLo48","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-HiLo48-2013-12-03T06:21:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T16:11:00.000Z-HiLo48-2013-12-03T06:21:00.000Z"]}}-->

Sure, I'll bite. Did you sign the *title* of the section, with your name? (As opposed to the first comment within that section.) If not, then WP:AGF suggests that Pete changed the title without thinking about whether *you* were the one who titled it. p.s. Australia rules, and Sweden drools, but don't tell Hafspajen that I said so, they think I'm some kinda secret agent or something.  :-)   Hope this helps. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 16:11, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T16:11:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T16:11:00.000Z-HiLo48-2013-12-03T06:21:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T22:27:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T16:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

OK, let's not have a free for all here. I understand HiLo's concern very well. Drmies (talk) 22:27, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T22:27:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T22:27:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T16:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I don't know how you IPs work, but if you say my name, I will hear about it. Message commes X has mentioned you here and there... Hafspajen (talk) 16:22, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T16:22:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T16:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

On 1 December 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Rumskulla oak, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that sex scenes in the controversial 1967 film I Am Curious (Yellow) were shot inside the Rumskulla oak, an oak tree that is more than 1,000 years old? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Rumskulla oak. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

What is this? Urban shamanism? never heard of it. [16]Hafspajen (talk) 16:39, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T16:39:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T16:39:00.000Z-Super","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:29:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T16:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

• No? It's quite famous (an early version of white people rapping). I remember there were sweatshirts with the term on it back in the 80s--it may have been a brand of clothing or so, for preppy kids I think. Drmies (talk) 15:29, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T15:29:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:29:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T16:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

This is just crazy. Somebody emptied a whole article of [[]] brackets. Is this vandalism or just somebody who doesn't have a clue? And what am I suppose to do? The person said that it was the Bracket bot who raised the issue? Or is this a missunderstanding? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_silk&curid=10783723&diff=584088108&oldid=581438147 Hafspajen (talk) 18:40, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T18:40:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T18:40:00.000Z-Any_page_st._admin","replies":["c-EdJohnston-2013-12-01T19:18:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T18:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hello Hafspajen. Whatever the problem was at History of silk, it seems to have been fixed by this December 1 edit by User:Sagaciousphil. Why not write to him if you still think there's a problem. EdJohnston (talk) 19:18, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T19:18:00.000Z","author":"EdJohnston","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-EdJohnston-2013-12-01T19:18:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T18:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Well, yes that is my problem, I don't know what to write to him. I could have reverted it myself, but what if he goes on like this? Hafspajen (talk) 19:22, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T19:22:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T19:22:00.000Z-Any_page_st._admin","replies":["c-Sagaciousphil-2013-12-01T19:27:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T19:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

I think the editor just saw the BracketBot message from October on their talk page and was just trying to fix what they thought they'd done incorrectly. I'll drop a note on their page to explain. SagaciousPhil - Chat 19:27, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T19:27:00.000Z","author":"Sagaciousphil","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Sagaciousphil-2013-12-01T19:27:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T19:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Yngvadottir-2013-12-01T19:30:00.000Z-Sagaciousphil-2013-12-01T19:27:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-02T22:25:00.000Z-Sagaciousphil-2013-12-01T19:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

(edit conflict):I did, hopefully clarifying the matter rather than further obscuring it '-) Yngvadottir (talk) 19:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T19:30:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2013-12-01T19:30:00.000Z-Sagaciousphil-2013-12-01T19:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sagaciousphil-2013-12-01T19:43:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-01T19:30:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T20:01:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-01T19:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

Edit conflicts everywhere!!! note to self - learn to type faster! SagaciousPhil - Chat 19:43, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T19:43:00.000Z","author":"Sagaciousphil","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Sagaciousphil-2013-12-01T19:43:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-01T19:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Well yes, exactly what I was afraid of. This can't be explained. If I was that confused guy Shinju, I wouldn't understand anything by now, and probably just go on removing all the brackets om the whole Wickipedia, sorry. The thing is that we don't know what he was thinking, and that is why...is difficult to explain, if you follow me. I thought that you did understod what the guy ment in the editsummary, because I don't. I thought that maybe som English is escaping me, or what. Another one has now just been left immediately above my note triggered by you trying to fix things. Please just ignore both those messages as we have fixed the article.. Will he got this message? Hafspajen (talk) 20:01, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T20:01:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T20:01:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-01T19:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-02T19:37:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T20:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

If the messages from bracket-bot are confusing an editor, and in trying to respond to what they think bracketbot meant, they end up making things worse... suggest deleting the bracket-bot-messages from their talkpage, and then helpfully opting them out of receiving any further bracket-bot-messages at all. User:BracketBot#Opting_out Hope this helps. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 19:37, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T19:37:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-02T19:37:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-01T20:01:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• What is that stuff one should add to stop the bot messing around? this? User:BracketBot#Opting_out ? Because this {{NoBracketBot} didn't worked om my page, he is still coming back. ^{Is there anyone wo didn't recived a Bracket-message on this Wikipedia} Hafspajen (talk) 22:25, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T22:25:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-02T22:25:00.000Z-Sagaciousphil-2013-12-01T19:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T02:18:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-02T22:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

I took the liberty of adding the opt-out stuff to your talkpage.[17] Try now? You are the eighth user in the category.  :-)   So the annoying answer to your question is, at least seven people don't receive bracketBot messages on enWiki. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 02:18, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T02:18:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T02:18:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-02T22:25:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Don't know if you'll remember this, you blocked this use last year after an ANI discussion about their competence, especially their ability to coherently write in English. They have appealed the block, claiming to have learned some English now. I have declined for now with a {{2nd chance}}, asking them to prove it first. Hopefully they will follow those directions and show us something coherent. Thought you might want to at least be watching as blocking admin. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:15, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-01T22:15:00.000Z","author":"Beeblebrox","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Beeblebrox-2013-12-01T22:15:00.000Z-User_talk:B767-500","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:31:00.000Z-Beeblebrox-2013-12-01T22:15:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Remember how some admins would allow an unblock after an editor with competence issues had made some decent edits on the Simple Wikipedia? (One criticism was that we would be sending our incompetencies over there...) That might be a proper tactic here, maybe. Drmies (talk) 15:31, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T15:31:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:31:00.000Z-Beeblebrox-2013-12-01T22:15:00.000Z","replies":["c-Beeblebrox-2013-12-02T19:48:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:31:00.000Z"]}}-->

I actually think that approach kind of misses the point of what Simple is for. It is supposed to be written for people with marginal English skills, not by them. I contributed there for a while, it is pretty easy to get the "importer" user right if you are active here. Then you just import articles from here and "dumb them down" to the point where someone with a very marginal understanding of English can make some sense of them. Anyhoo, for the moment the ball is in their court (that's exactly the sort of idiom you shouldn't use at Simple). Beeblebrox (talk) 19:48, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T19:48:00.000Z","author":"Beeblebrox","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Beeblebrox-2013-12-02T19:48:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-02T15:31:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T00:03:00.000Z-Beeblebrox-2013-12-02T19:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

You know what, you put that very well. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 00:03, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T00:03:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T00:03:00.000Z-Beeblebrox-2013-12-02T19:48:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Not only does Amazon plan to send drones to deliver packages to customers in 4–5 years; in Australia Zookal is already doing it with books through a start-up called Flirtey. Octocopter redirects to Multirotor; plenty of space for at least one new article. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T20:52:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2013-12-02T20:52:00.000Z-Anybody_here_want_an_article_idea?","replies":["c-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-02T21:02:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-02T20:52:00.000Z","c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T01:38:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-02T20:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

Dibs on octocopter! Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:02, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T21:02:00.000Z","author":"Writ Keeper","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-02T21:02:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-02T20:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-Iridescent-2013-12-02T21:27:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-02T21:02:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Writ\u00a0Keeper"}}-->

Not wanting to piss on anyone's chips, but this has been thoroughly debunked, and is actually a case of a self-promoting company generating hype in the run-up to an IPO and a demonstration of how lazy certain media outlets can be when it comes to fact-checking. There's a theoretical market for drone-delivery in commerical documents (although it's hard to imagine something light enough to be carried by drone, that's so urgent one can't wait for the mailman but so worthless that it falling into the hands of whoever happens to intercept the drone isn't an issue. Given the cost of fuel, remote piloting, legal liabilities should the things crash, and the cost of replacing drones which will become target-of-choice for every bored teenager with an air-rifle, I can't see any way the cost of drone-delivery for textbook rental would ever make economic sense. – iridescent 21:27, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T21:27:00.000Z","author":"Iridescent","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Iridescent-2013-12-02T21:27:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-02T21:02:00.000Z","replies":["c-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-02T21:29:00.000Z-Iridescent-2013-12-02T21:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

Buzzkill. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:29, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T21:29:00.000Z","author":"Writ Keeper","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-02T21:29:00.000Z-Iridescent-2013-12-02T21:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Smartse-2013-12-02T21:40:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-02T21:29:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Writ\u00a0Keeper"}}-->

The Amazon news has also been debunked (what a surprise the news corresponded with cyber Monday). The first link also discusses Matternet which has done some trials delivering medicine in Haiti. Unmanned_aerial_vehicle#Uses would be the place to start - don't think this needs a new article yet though. SmartSE (talk) 21:40, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T21:40:00.000Z","author":"Smartse","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Smartse-2013-12-02T21:40:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-02T21:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Yngvadottir-2013-12-02T21:46:00.000Z-Smartse-2013-12-02T21:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, I originally saw the Amazon thing in a print newspaper in - ahem - a technologically interested location. And my reaction was, "Amazon is on crack". If only because most of my neighbors could and would hack it to deliver a bag of poop to someone else. But that debunking coverage just confirms my sense that Zookal may have earned themselves an article. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:46, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T21:46:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2013-12-02T21:46:00.000Z-Smartse-2013-12-02T21:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T00:08:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-02T21:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm waiting on someone to put a helicopter rotor on my dead cat. Drmies (talk) 00:08, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T00:08:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T00:08:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-02T21:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I'm just gonna apply WP:IDHT to all the nested poo-poohing commentary from Luddites. There are two killer apps for a drone-based delivery system. #1) legally-untraceable delivery of cocaine and/or high-grade hallucinogens. The illicit drug industry has more than enough cashflow to fund the R&D on this one. #2) plausible-deniability delivery of thumbdrives with a quantum-resistant pubkey-encrypted data-payload. Industrial espionage plus the more usual nationalistic sort. Implementation of these units will not be anything like noisy ethanol-powered flying buzzbombers... instead, they will be like a large cicada, or a dragonfly.[18] Nano_Air_Vehicle. That said, amazon and book-delivery-services are not very likely.  :-)   The publicized military uses are urban recon, but of course "killer app #3" is stealth assassinations (alternatively perhaps just unconsciousness) via remote-controlled delivery of a hypodermic needle. On that note.... — 74.192.84.101 (talk) 01:38, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T01:38:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T01:38:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-02T20:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Your final editorial determination/edits have been ignored twice by user Technopat on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Allegro_Development_Corporation&action=history

Please urge him to refrain from future edits.

Thanks 96.226.197.55 (talk) 21:36, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T21:36:00.000Z","author":"96.226.197.55","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-96.226.197.55-2013-12-02T21:36:00.000Z-Technopat_reverted_your_edits_on_Allegro_Development_page","replies":["c-Technopat-2013-12-02T23:08:00.000Z-96.226.197.55-2013-12-02T21:36:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:01:00.000Z-96.226.197.55-2013-12-02T21:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

Greetings Drmies. Sorry to butt in, but as the above also concerns me, am replying here. Not really sure what's behind all this, but as you can see from the diffs/article history, my first major intervention at the article was, contrary to the above allegations, precisely to revert back to your earlier edit (Reverted to revision 582844768 by Drmies (talk): Restoring to what seems to be the last stable version). I then went on to make a few necessary tweaks to the article and removed, as per my edit summary, 'content "referenced" by primary source' ([19]). Finally, I again had to revert to your "stable" version [20] (minus the primary source). Hope you can make some sense out of all this. Regards, --Technopat (talk) 23:08, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T23:08:00.000Z","author":"Technopat","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Technopat-2013-12-02T23:08:00.000Z-96.226.197.55-2013-12-02T21:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Well, sure. IP, don't make like I'm laying down some kind of law; I'm just another editor. I trimmed a bunch of stuff, and I think the article can probably be trimmed more, but whatever you two are doing has little to do with me since Technopat is correct in stating that they reverted to my version. You cut some more--fine, go for it (but don't insert primary legal sources, please). Take your dispute to the talk page: I'm not an arbitrator, at least not tonight. Drmies (talk) 04:01, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T04:01:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T04:01:00.000Z-96.226.197.55-2013-12-02T21:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Can you (or someone else) have a look at List of ethnic group names used as insults, I have trimmed the ones that were not specifically ethnic groups (you can look at the history rather than me mentioning them here), but there are a couple I am unsure of. Were the Thuggee an "ethnic" group, or just a group that enjoyed the Thug Life™? Also I am unsure if Gringo belongs on there, I don't think it is really an ethnic group, but rather someone who doesn't speak Spanish/Portuguese (I often referred to myself as a gringo when I was in Mongolia, but the reference went over like a lead balloon). --kelapstick^(bainuu) 23:22, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-02T23:22:00.000Z","author":"Kelapstick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kelapstick-2013-12-02T23:22:00.000Z-Thug_Life","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:46:00.000Z-Kelapstick-2013-12-02T23:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

• This list is somewhat reminiscent of the statistics pertaining to the chances of an NFL team making the playoffs if they start the season with three losses and their quarterback's last name starts with the letter A or B and their only win by 20 points or more was a Monday night game. Drmies (talk) 03:46, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T03:46:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:46:00.000Z-Kelapstick-2013-12-02T23:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kelapstick-2013-12-03T10:27:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:46:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • I think you might have the list confused with the the reception section of Men with Brooms. --kelapstick^{(on the run)} 10:27, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T10:27:00.000Z","author":"Kelapstick","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Kelapstick-2013-12-03T10:27:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:46:00.000Z","replies":["c-Xanthomelanoussprog-2013-12-03T11:45:00.000Z-Kelapstick-2013-12-03T10:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Is "alter" the Canadian way of spelling "altar"? (he left her standing at the alter, eh?) Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 11:45, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T11:45:00.000Z","author":"Xanthomelanoussprog","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Xanthomelanoussprog-2013-12-03T11:45:00.000Z-Kelapstick-2013-12-03T10:27:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Congrats on deleting all of my edits. You have made Wikipedia a better place by putting me in my place. Perhaps you should take a look at all of the important information I provided and that you deleted on Wikipedia. It is a shame that the idiots are running the asylum here. You deserve what you get I guess. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tnspro (talk • contribs) 00:56, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T00:56:00.000Z","author":"Tnspro","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tnspro-2013-12-03T00:56:00.000Z-OldestLivingProFootball.com","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:39:00.000Z-Tnspro-2013-12-03T00:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

• You may not like this, but Wikipedia works by way of consensus. There is a clear consensus at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League#oldestlivingprofootball.com that your site (literally, your site) should not be linked, and that your edits amount to linkspamming. So at least one can see that the idiots are of one mind here. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 03:39, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T03:39:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:39:00.000Z-Tnspro-2013-12-03T00:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-03T06:16:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

Has anyone addressed its usage as an inline ref? There are quite a few articles using it as a reference, possibly in error. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 06:16, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T06:16:00.000Z","author":"Uncle Milty","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-03T06:16:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T03:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T15:11:00.000Z-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-03T06:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

It's a long discussion and I think the topic came up, but I did not reread the entire thing. Drmies (talk) 15:11, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T15:11:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T15:11:00.000Z-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-03T06:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T15:59:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T15:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

I skimmed it. Tnspro does not own the site, apparently, it was SRjaney (or somebody like that see thread if you care), and the *owner* of the site was fine with not being an EL. The consensus was mostly about not using OLPF in the external-link-section, which is the crusade of Tnspro, but at least three people (four if you count me) agreed that it was just peachy as an inline cite. Tnspro thinks that is not good enough, which is why they came here to complain to Drmies. HTH. p.s. Tnspro, even if the place is correct, the citation should be enough for you, that tells the readers where the date-of-death-info was sourced from. Putting the same website, into external links, is just redundant at best, and overly-promotional at worst. The cite takes the reader to OLFP, just as well as the EL, right? Right. So settle down, and quit adding that link to every article you edit as an external link, and just put it as the source^[1] when you fix some bad info here in wikipedia. Sound good? 74.192.84.101 (talk) 15:59, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T15:59:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T15:59:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T15:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-03T16:08:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T15:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you. I did skim the discussion, but was wondering if maybe it had been touched upon in a different discussion somewhere. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 16:08, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T16:08:00.000Z","author":"Uncle Milty","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-03T16:08:00.000Z-74.192.84.101-2013-12-03T15:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T22:25:00.000Z-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-03T16:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

I will try to make this simple and as easy as possible since I really have no interest in adding anything to Wikipedia again. It is not worth my time anymore. I tried to make the site better, and in doing so, perhaps adding a citation in the wrong place. That was never and I repeat never my concern. I don't care where the link was placed. All I cared about was adding the correct information. In my eyes, OldestLivingProFootball has just as much right to be an external link as pro-football-ref or any other site people add to that section. I put it in the external "section" because that was easiest for me. I am not as well versed in wik rules so someone could have come along and explained it THREE years ago or so, when I started fixing the many mistakes I found. But, that never happened and then, 1 person, yes ONE person, Jonathan Weiss, decided to make it his personal mission to stop me, and it worked out for him. Why? Well, consensus in the Wikipedia world seems to mean two people. I thought there were thousands of editors and two people (along with a few others that really had nothing worthy to add to the conversation) suddenly became a consensus. See what a few Wikipedia buddies can accomplish? I would think the Wikipedia community would welcome someone like me that has the desire and knowledge to make it better. I quickly learned they do not. Here is why I started adding the link to oldestlivingprofootball.com. When I started editing, I was new to Wik, I figured nobody would take my word for it that Punk Berryman died in 1966, not 1988 like his page had listed, so....I added a link to where the correct information would be found, with a vast majority of the time, a citation to a source, or at the very least an explanation of where the "correct and updated" information was found. It is that simple. Seems logical to me. Why do I seemed pissed at times? I can't believe that there are people out there that once shown a place that has all the information researched and presented to them, still dismiss it. That is why I feel the two people that "ganged up on me" are/were doing it out of spite and have no real intention on fixing the many errors on Wikipedia. I have pointed out numerous errors to them and guess what, they are STILL not fixed. They won't do it because it would be an admission that the site in question is reliable. Do you want the information on Wikipedia to be correct or would you just like to carry on using bad copied data from pro-football-ref, nfl.com or wherever? Anyone can copy and paste, people with passion and integrity will do the work to make sure the information they are adding is correct. Everything I added to Wikipedia was 100% correct. Since most of it was wiped away, now you have no one that will fix these errors, partly because the only place you can find the correct information is on oldestlivingprofootball.com and consensus says that site is not a worthy enough site for Wikipedia and partly because you don't even know there are problems.

One last point on Punk Berryman, JWiess11 took out the link I put to Berryman's page on OldestLivingProFootball, but kept the "new" death date I listed. Ok, fine. But here is the kicker, there is STILL a link to Pro-Football-Ref and College Football Data Warehouse in the External Link section that add absolutely nothing to the article. Heck, PF-ref still has his death date at 1988! Can you see how ridiculous that is? The place where the information came from was deleted, but two other sites that add nothing to the conversation still remain. And you wonder why my contributions to Wikipedia are done.

I don't know if I'm being asked anything or just being criticized for some unknown thing that I am not even sure I did. But hey, who cares. I'll just repeat what I saw: a consensus not to use the link as an EL. I do not believe that Jweiss was on some sort of personal crusade, and from one other article with a not-so-good link one cannot conclude that there are ridiculous things going on: we have millions of articles, many of which defective one way or another, but that doesn't mean that we cannot try to exercise quality control. Drmies (talk) 22:25, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T22:25:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T22:25:00.000Z-Uncle_Milty-2013-12-03T16:08:00.000Z","replies":["c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-04T19:24:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T22:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

Sure, all that is correct. But they are not criticizing you Drmies, or even, asking any questions, per se. They are simply giving us the Rest of the Story. They are telling us why wikiCulture has failed them. You can see from their edit-history, and the messages on their talkpage, how the story goes, but here is my capsule-summary.

  Along the way, from what I can tell, they were told to STOP DOING IT BAD perhaps a dozen times on their talkpage, and no doubt hundreds of times in ninja-reverts. At least on their talkpage, nobody has ever explained to Tnspro *how* to Do The Right Thing, and create an inline-cite. They are, and were, acting in good faith: they are trying to cite their sources, or in this case, their source. Wikimarkup is complicated, nobody explained how it worked, so they just did what was easiest. Originally they just jammed the cite into the middle somewheres! Later, they began using the External Link section, because after all, that is where similar fansites like NFLdotCom appear, right? Right. So at the end of the day, Tnspro is not criticizing *you* for your sins, Drmies, they are criticizing *me*.

  Where was the teahouse when they needed it? Where was somebody from WP:RETENTION to explain the subtle difference between adding an inline-cite-barelink, and spamming-an-EL-barelink? Well, in my defense, I was busy with other things. Anyways, with luck, maybe I can help talk Tnspro off the ledge. But this is a key problem with the wikiCulture nowadays: newbies have to get it right, on the first try, no mistakes, or they can redacted redacted redacted redacted redacted themselves. Otherwise, make *any* mistakes whatsoever, and WP:NINJA, WP:TEMPLAR, maybe even WP:9STEPS. This drives people away. Some people truly believe downsizing folks like 24 and Tnspro is evolutionarily "pareto-optimal" wikiCulture-behavior, and see no problem with it.[22][23][24] I'm not one of those people. Hope this helps clarify. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 19:24, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-04T19:24:00.000Z","author":"74.192.84.101","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-74.192.84.101-2013-12-04T19:24:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T22:25:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, Drmies. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

--Pete (talk) 07:05, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T07:05:00.000Z","author":"Skyring","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skyring-2013-12-03T07:05:00.000Z-Just_so_you_know,","replies":[],"displayName":"Pete"}}-->

This user wants to be your friend.

Hafspajen (talk) 12:38, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T12:38:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T12:38:00.000Z-You_know","replies":[]}}-->

This user want's you to have a hat. What is a doctor without a hat?

• Who dat? A member of the Swedish royal family? Drmies (talk) 15:10, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T15:10:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T15:10:00.000Z-You_know","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T15:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T15:10:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T15:25:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T15:10:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Dat? Some Swedish academic chap from Lund. (Not me, if that's what you thought). With no hat, as you can see. Shouldn't you have an userbox with a hat on?

• Mwah. Do I? It's like putting a ring on a monkey. Drmies (talk) 15:22, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T15:22:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T15:22:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T15:10:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

  Drmies has an academic degree — specialist degree.

• Put that on your talk page, not on your head. Hafspajen (talk) 15:25, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T15:25:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T15:25:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-03T15:10:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Yeah, right. Now I am blocked again, same thing like before. Can't edit your talk page with the Warrington account. Or wait. Has any of your friends made some trouble blocking me for something I don't know about or is just the same stuff happening all over again? Or it was something temporary?

Hafspajen (talk) 15:37, 3 December 2013 (UTC) Drmies, listen here, this is something fishy. I was actually counting my edits today, because I am close to 12000, (new veteran star, and all that) so was around 11645. I got around 11754, ie but now I am back att 11648, what happened. I am telling you that something happened with the Warrington account - but what? Godverdomme! Hafspajen (talk) 17:23, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T15:37:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T15:37:00.000Z-You_know","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T21:32:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T15:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Can't help right now, Warrington, but I'll get back to you later. Drmies (talk) 21:32, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T21:32:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T21:32:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T15:37:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I'm more inclined to think that something's wrong with the edit counter at the toolserver. On another note, here's the #1 member of the Swedish royal family wearing a hat. De728631 (talk) 21:33, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T21:33:00.000Z","author":"De728631","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-De728631-2013-12-03T21:33:00.000Z-You_know","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T21:35:00.000Z-De728631-2013-12-03T21:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Indeed he is! Obligingly. Hafspajen (talk) 21:35, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T21:35:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T21:35:00.000Z-De728631-2013-12-03T21:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T22:01:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T21:35:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T22:16:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T21:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Hmm. Don't know what to say about the hat. Or the glasses--and that photo is from 1990. Perhaps the Swedes aren't very hip? Drmies (talk) 22:01, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T22:01:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T22:01:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T21:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• What? You don't mean that the academic chap isn't hip? I like that robe! The King, well, he is a sad story, but it can't be helped. Not his glasses. The hat, that is an other story. The hat is a doctoral hat at, and part of a ceremony, he must have that, it is the traditional university hat. And this is the way it looks like. Everybody at the university is wearing this hat, well, everybody who has a Doctor of Philosophy degree. He is trying to do the right thing... Hafspajen (talk) 22:16, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T22:16:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T22:16:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-03T21:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Drmies,

Seeing as Moscow Connection (talk · contribs) didn't have the decency to contact you himself to say that he's dragged your name into a dispute, I though I would come over and let you know. It was around 18 months ago when you first advised the editor about using YouTube links for the sole purpose of "making the article look pretty". Anyhow, they're at it again and they've dragged you into it again, by name. I'll leave it to you. Hope you're having a good day, by the way. As for me, I'm trying to find a venue to hold a wedding reception on 3 May 2014. Oh the joys! Wes Mᴥuse 15:38, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T15:38:00.000Z","author":"Wesley Mouse","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Wesley_Mouse-2013-12-03T15:38:00.000Z-Head's_up","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-03T17:09:00.000Z-Wesley_Mouse-2013-12-03T15:38:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Wes"}}-->

• The smaller the wedding, the greater the chance of the marriage lasting. Spaketh the old married man. Drmies (talk) 17:09, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-03T17:09:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-03T17:09:00.000Z-Wesley_Mouse-2013-12-03T15:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Dr.--I hope you had a marvelous Thanksgiving. Came across this article today, and eviscerated it because it was just awful. Mentioning it here in the hopes that it will make it to your and others' watchlists. Very best regards, JNW (talk) 01:47, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-04T01:47:00.000Z","author":"JNW","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JNW-2013-12-04T01:47:00.000Z-David_Padilla_(disc_jockey)","replies":["c-JNW-2013-12-04T22:20:00.000Z-JNW-2013-12-04T01:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm tiring of playing whack-a-mole with this article. Any help you can suggest or provide re: page protection or user blocking would be appreciated. Thanks, JNW (talk) 22:20, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-04T22:20:00.000Z","author":"JNW","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-JNW-2013-12-04T22:20:00.000Z-JNW-2013-12-04T01:47:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-05T00:27:00.000Z-JNW-2013-12-04T22:20:00.000Z"]}}-->

I ate some turkey leftovers for lunch today. It's not better the second time around, really. Did you have a nice Thanksgiving? Drmies (talk) 00:27, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-05T00:27:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-05T00:27:00.000Z-JNW-2013-12-04T22:20:00.000Z","replies":["c-JNW-2013-12-05T02:42:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-05T00:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

Glad you asked. Very nice, down to turkey soup now. Small gathering, with a few Yale grad students in attendance, so I was pretty much the dimmest bulb in the room. Which is nothing new, but lately I'll find myself having a thought, getting momentarily distracted, then forgetting what I'd been thinking about. Oh shit. JNW (talk) 02:42, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-05T02:42:00.000Z","author":"JNW","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-JNW-2013-12-05T02:42:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-05T00:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:13:00.000Z-JNW-2013-12-05T02:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

I love the term "senior moment"; one of my old professors taught me that. It's even better than having a dog to blame farts on. Drmies (talk) 19:13, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T19:13:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:13:00.000Z-JNW-2013-12-05T02:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-JNW-2013-12-09T03:06:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:13:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've gone ahead and reverted further edits by Vonhempton, all of which appear to me to be backdoor efforts to sneak the organization into other articles. If you think I've been overzealous feel free to revert all or in part. Right now we've got three dogs in the house, so there are plenty of targets for blame. JNW (talk) 03:06, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-09T03:06:00.000Z","author":"JNW","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-JNW-2013-12-09T03:06:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:13:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Recently, User:Oriole85 (contribs) has been sporadically popping up on my watchlist for category-related changes. A lot of new users do that, so it wasn't a particularly noteworthy thing for me. But then he kept showing up with a higher frequency, oftentimes making (what I thought to be) completely unnecessary over-categorizations to articles. I've been on Wikipedia long enough to know that User:Levineps (contribs) is one of the most notorious over-categorizers we've ever seen (and has the community sanctions, block records, and bans to show for it). So, I did about two minutes' worth of research and discovered that Oriole85's account was created / his edits began on November 5, 2013. When was the last edit by Levineps? November 4, 2013. That is not a coincidence IMO. I don't have (a) the time right now, nor (b) the motivation to formally open an SPI, but I'm hoping that one of the many people I'm notifying about this does. If you're wondering why you're being pinged about this, it's because I saw where you were one of the people who has left messages on Levineps' talk page at some point regarding his inappropriate editing. So now, in addition to all of the aforementioned issues with Levineps, it looks like a probably sockpuppet to throw into the mix. Jrcla2 (talk) 05:26, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-05T05:26:00.000Z","author":"Jrcla2","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jrcla2-2013-12-05T05:26:00.000Z-Potential_sockpuppet_of_Levineps","replies":[]}}-->

Hey there MIES, AL "here",

sorry for the misunderstanding. However, this guy still busts my wikiballs as he continues to do strange things (i.e. replacing ENGLISH links with their PORTUGUESE version), maybe my summaries sometimes transpire that.

Happy(est of) weekend(s) --AL (talk) 19:30, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-05T19:30:00.000Z","author":"Always Learning","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Always_Learning-2013-12-05T19:30:00.000Z-User:Pararubbas","replies":[],"displayName":"AL"}}-->

Oh, there's that lovely chocolate lab again. Drmies, I was out all day and didn't see what happened at Jim Eisenreich (who is a public figure with Tourette syndrome). Bencherlite and I have discussed several times the kinds of issues that might occur when TS runs on the mainpage; were the revdel'd edits related to Eisenriech's tics/TS? If so, are you able to email me the gist of what was revdel'd there, in the event it is relevant to what kinds of vandalism might occur at TS when it runs TFA? Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:57, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-05T22:57:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-12-05T22:57:00.000Z-Jim_Eisenreich","replies":["c-Dpmuk-2013-12-06T00:23:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-12-05T22:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

(talk page stalker) Both were very short additions that appear to have absolutely nothing to do with Tourette syndrome and are rather just common garden-variety attacks. Dpmuk (talk) 00:23, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T00:23:00.000Z","author":"Dpmuk","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dpmuk-2013-12-06T00:23:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-12-05T22:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-SandyGeorgia-2013-12-06T00:40:00.000Z-Dpmuk-2013-12-06T00:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:40, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T00:40:00.000Z","author":"SandyGeorgia","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-SandyGeorgia-2013-12-06T00:40:00.000Z-Dpmuk-2013-12-06T00:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-06T00:46:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-12-06T00:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

What Dpmuk says: just stupid stuff. Hey Sandy, nice to see you again. Dpmuk, I am honored to have you here. Please have a cup of coffee and grab a pastry or two. Drmies (talk) 00:46, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T00:46:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-06T00:46:00.000Z-SandyGeorgia-2013-12-06T00:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Is this series of edits constructive to the articles, or is it a kind of spamming, in that the content is all coming from the same recently published source [25]? Further opinions much appreciated, JNW (talk) 00:44, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T00:44:00.000Z","author":"JNW","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JNW-2013-12-06T00:44:00.000Z-A_question_for_discerning_scholars","replies":["c-JNW-2013-12-06T00:45:00.000Z-JNW-2013-12-06T00:44:00.000Z"]}}-->

By the way, I love the dog pictures, too. JNW (talk) 00:45, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T00:45:00.000Z","author":"JNW","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-JNW-2013-12-06T00:45:00.000Z-JNW-2013-12-06T00:44:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I undid the revision mainly for sake of those who are browsing the wiki just for basic information and don't want be hit by spoilers. This wiki page is also generally based on the anime so any major future "out of context events" shouldn't be added until accompanied episode has aired. I have no problem anyone adding info, but I think a bit courtesy should observed, especially when there is no separate pages, spoiler tags or warnings on this wiki page. I prefer to minimize confusion as much as possible. --Dullblade2.0 (talk) 08:31, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T08:31:00.000Z","author":"Dullblade2.0","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dullblade2.0-2013-12-06T08:31:00.000Z-About_the_revision_on_character_section_of_Tokyo_Ravens","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-06T13:57:00.000Z-Dullblade2.0-2013-12-06T08:31:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Thank you for your note, Dullblade. We don't do spoiler warnings, simple as that. If someone doesn't want to read what you call a spoiler (which otherwise is called plot summary) they should refrain from scrolling down the page. As for the info in that article, it's a typical manga fan page, which is full of trivia, and no references. Drmies (talk) 13:57, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T13:57:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-06T13:57:00.000Z-Dullblade2.0-2013-12-06T08:31:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Any person who knows the answer, is welcome to answer. We had a long disscusion on Yngvadottir's talk page (talk) on the topic images (Art) section. Because a wide range of screen widths and settings readers have images ang gallerirs (Don't want to debate if galleries are usefull or not, YES, they have encyclopedic value, that was a huge consensus on the topic way back like in 2009), display either balanced or unbalanced depending on whether people use desktop (modern wide-format monitor), or laptop (old-style screen width), or a cellphone or ... there is a wide range of screen widths and settings. And it looks like while text works, the images differ. Probably something to do with the programing, we guessed. Why? + Can this be fixed? And is there something that can be done that works reasonably well for all screens? Hafspajen (talk) 12:48, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T12:48:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T12:48:00.000Z-Ask_computing_mavens?","replies":["c-Yngvadottir-2013-12-06T13:22:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T12:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

Section link, for clarity - my talk page is filling up again. Yngvadottir (talk) 13:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T13:22:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2013-12-06T13:22:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T12:48:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:18:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-06T13:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Unlike mine, Yngvadottir. Warrington, this goes above my pay grade. Can the Village Pump people help? Drmies (talk) 19:18, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T19:18:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:18:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-06T13:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Yngvadottir-2013-12-07T13:29:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:18:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Martijn Hoekstra spoke up :-) Yngvadottir (talk) 13:29, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T13:29:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2013-12-07T13:29:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:18:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

... in Sweden. I am having a bad time over there on the swiki. Some feminists are putting hard work into change the he (han) and the she (hon) into just one pronome - hen. From now one you should or may - mostly should - call everybody not she or he, but hen. Because it is more equall. equality [26] Hafspajen (talk) 14:34, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z-People_will_be_called_soon_poultry","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-06T15:06:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-12-06T15:07:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","c-Ignatzmice-2013-12-06T15:38:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T18:54:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:09:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","c-Crisco_1492-2013-12-07T00:17:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Oh, that's exciting! You may not know that I'm a bleeding-heart liberal and a feminazi to boot. In English I like to use Singular they (I think that's a link) ("Hey! There's someone in my yard! They're stealing my pecans!"); I'm trying to figure out from my mother what opportunities Dutch has for an undefined singular pronoun, but I'm not getting much out of her. Drmies (talk) 15:06, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T15:06:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-06T15:06:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martijn_Hoekstra-2013-12-06T15:42:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T15:06:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:09:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T15:06:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • 1. Why are there pecans in your yard? Are they still there, are have they been stolen now?
    2. The most one can do in Dutch is probably work around the issue, ("Hey, er is iemand in de tuin! Die is de beukenootjes aan het stelen!") with as demonstrated rather cringeworthy results. Maybe you can make up a better gender neutral convention. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 15:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T15:42:00.000Z","author":"Martijn Hoekstra","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martijn_Hoekstra-2013-12-06T15:42:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T15:06:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
    • The first is easy: we have a pecan tree in the yard. Duh! En mijn moeder en stiefvader vinden de nootjes erg lekker. Yes, she proposed "iemand" as well, but I insisted on a personal pronoun. It's not a bad workaround, but it doesn't work for a definite person (like "the user" in a manual) of undetermined gender. AFAIK, "undetermined" should read "irrelevant", but as Lacan argued, I believe, we won't be getting out of that binary anytime soon. Drmies (talk) 19:09, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T19:09:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:09:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T15:06:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• Your equality link goes nowhere, I'm afraid. That Benjamins book looks interesting: I think I might see if we can get that for our library. Drmies (talk) 15:07, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T15:07:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-06T15:07:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T15:29:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T15:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

No, it does not, does it. try this with a google translation, http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/kritiker-hen-gor-barn-forvirrade/ and this http://www.sydsvenskan.se/kultur--nojen/hen-far-vanta/ But HEN? Have you heard of hen party? It is just tremendously silly. Hafspajen (talk) 15:29, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T15:29:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T15:29:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T15:07:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Singular they works fine for me. Works great for trans people too—I find the myriad sets of pronouns to be a little over the top. They is fine. (PS I like the flirtatious chocolate lab.) Ignatzmice•talk 15:38, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T15:38:00.000Z","author":"Ignatzmice","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ignatzmice-2013-12-06T15:38:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T16:00:00.000Z-Ignatzmice-2013-12-06T15:38:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Ignatz"}}-->

Oh, singular they works fine for me too, Ignatzmice. The problem is that they want he and she to disappear completely more or less. Even if many say, no, no, we don't. It started from one transsexual person who didn't liked the idea of people being - men or women, or felt - repressed, attacked - misunderstood. Then goes the feminist side of the long list of Swedish politicians, hey, this is a good idea! Then goes the homosexual party, who is has his rights to be, is they want, I don't mind ( you know that in Sweden marriage is all right for them, yes?) But I really never had any special opinion about this, yes, sure, why not - I always said - BUT when they want to erase the male and female genders, - well as it is in this case, YES, I Do mind. I think men and women should not be forced into a position where people need to be ashamed about being a men or a woman, I think this is reverse discrimination. I was at a meeting, some time ago, and one woman is going, :NOW, everybody please, stand up and tell, how do you want to addressed, he, she or hen? And everybody had to raise and the women said, she, the men said he. That woman ALONE - wanted to be addressed as hen and she made all this circus for everybody (around 20 people) to raise and declare if they were women, men or .. hens. And I am not alone. It is desperately silly to be forced to get up and be made to declare if you were a women, men or a hen (chicken?). Hafspajen (talk) 16:00, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T16:00:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T16:00:00.000Z-Ignatzmice-2013-12-06T15:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

1. REDIRECT

   

• Mies, do not missunderstand me, generally I tend to be slightly a on the feminist side, with mostly equality for everyone, but this pissed me off. Hafspajen (talk) 18:54, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T18:54:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T18:54:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:04:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T18:54:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T19:32:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T18:54:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Oh, I'm not the type to go around telling people how to talk. As a linguist I find the matters really interesting. Politically I might be on hen's side, but I wouldn't get up at a meeting and make such announcements, though I understand the sentiment. I do mind that such discussions/actions/whatever are typically done away with, in the US, as "political correctness", the worst misnomer of our time. You're a good person, Hafspajen, and I'll accept without question that you're a good man too. Drmies (talk) 19:04, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T19:04:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:04:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T18:54:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Oh, thank you, Mies. But you see, this is exactly what it is, the other way round, those discussions/actions/whatever about hen are typically Swedish "political correctness", I wish you could understand how aggressive and unpleasant this woman was. Somebody was laughing to the idea of doing so, (telling if you are a man, woman or with no gender) and she made a big row, and she started yelling that she feels discriminated, and went on for at least twenty minutes and attacked than person for being ignorant, malcious, discriminating her this way , and never ever spoked with that woman again, the whole meeting and ever after. This is not layed back nice talk, this is just - terror. And then she forced us all to do this, and NOBODY said anything, because it would have been politicaly incorrect. Hafspajen (talk) 19:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T19:32:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T19:32:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T18:54:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Does anyone need a reading suggestion which has nothing to do with the topic? I'm reading Danilo Kiš's The Encyclopedia of the Dead, after I devoured A Tomb for Boris Davidovich. Drmies (talk) 19:09, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T19:09:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-06T19:09:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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• Hen party... I'm curious now. Just how do so many cultures consider women like chickens? The term ayam is used in Indonesia sometimes, though with decidedly unpositive connotations (most commonly in the construct "ayam kampus", literally 'chicken on the campus', meaning a college girl who provides sexual services in exchange for money; there is also "ayam abu-abu", literally 'grey chicken', meaning a high school girl who provides sexual services in exchange for money). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:17, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T00:17:00.000Z","author":"Crisco 1492","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Crisco_1492-2013-12-07T00:17:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-06T14:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z-Crisco_1492-2013-12-07T00:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Hahaha, Crisco, you made my day!! wonder what the Swedish hen-party would say, if they heard you. Hafspajen (talk) 00:36, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z-Crisco_1492-2013-12-07T00:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-07T00:42:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:50:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T01:15:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","c-SatuSuro-2013-12-07T02:00:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T02:13:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T16:30:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

• It's a sad day when the Auburn library has Gender Across Languages and the Alabama library does not. I guess that's just another immediate result of the Iron Bowl loss. Anyway, it'll be here soon. Crisco, in Dutch, "kippetje" has sexual connotations too, but whether we have a term that specific, I don't know. When I was in high school girls weren't given education yet. Drmies (talk) 00:42, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T00:42:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-07T00:42:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• Mies, now don't you start this, you too! I can assure you that it is not fun. People in Sweden are in outrage, about 70% of them. Hafspajen (talk) 00:50, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T00:50:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:50:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-Crisco_1492-2013-12-07T00:56:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:50:00.000Z"]}}-->

• "Campus Chickens also serve teachers for grades", "Guests Not Wearing Condoms a Workplace Risk for Campus Chickens"... cripes, I could probably get an article out of this.

That would be interesting, if the whole ayam whatever came from Dutch. I know we can blame them for "police resorts" (resor polisi).  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:56, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T00:56:00.000Z","author":"Crisco 1492","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Crisco_1492-2013-12-07T00:56:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:50:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• A Splendid idea, Crisco!! Hafspajen (talk) 01:15, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T01:15:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T01:15:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

wow what an intriguing talk page,... whatabout the anatomy - points of interest... satusuro 02:00, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T02:00:00.000Z","author":"SatuSuro","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-SatuSuro-2013-12-07T02:00:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Exactly, SatuSuro, good point! A smart remark, everybody. Hafspajen (talk) 02:13, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T02:13:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T02:13:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sagaciousphil-2013-12-07T12:33:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T02:13:00.000Z"]}}-->

In the rather uncouth Glasgow/west coast Hen is used as a term when speaking to females [27]. Of course, the north east uses far more sensible words like quine for a young unmarried girl [28] but - even more sensibly - young boys are called loons or loonies [29] SagaciousPhil - Chat 12:33, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T12:33:00.000Z","author":"Sagaciousphil","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Sagaciousphil-2013-12-07T12:33:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T02:13:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Interesting. Hafspajen (talk) 16:30, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T16:30:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T16:30:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T00:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Drmies, is it not true that you have persisted in coming to the defense of Eric on a fairly regular basis? Is it also not true that Eric has a loyal band of friends who always defend him and seek to cast the blame on others (isn't Eric responsible for his own actions)? Also, the fact that you closed down the thread, given your connections with Eric, raises some eyebrows (whether or not you like it). You can call it painting with a broad brush, but I think it was just observing what is quite plain to see. AutomaticStrikeout (₵) 15:31, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T15:31:00.000Z","author":"AutomaticStrikeout","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AutomaticStrikeout-2013-12-06T15:31:00.000Z-Re:_My_comment","replies":["c-AutomaticStrikeout-2013-12-06T15:46:00.000Z-AutomaticStrikeout-2013-12-06T15:31:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Automatic"}}-->

Note that I won't be replying here further, since all of this discussion is basically a waste of time. We both have better things to do. At any rate, we aren't going to agree on this and I think we both know it. Regards, AutomaticStrikeout (₵) 15:46, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T15:46:00.000Z","author":"AutomaticStrikeout","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-AutomaticStrikeout-2013-12-06T15:46:00.000Z-AutomaticStrikeout-2013-12-06T15:31:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-06T18:34:00.000Z-AutomaticStrikeout-2013-12-06T15:46:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Automatic"}}-->

• Yeah, it probably is a waste of time--and that's why I closed that thread. Friend/acquaintance or not, I like to think that I can be objective enough as an admin to make that call. Because in the first place we're all colleagues here, or should be. But note that I don't impugn your objectivity as an editor or whatever based on your non-frienship with Eric, whereas Nick, for instance, was denounced as unobjective, to put it mildly. Carry on, Drmies (talk) 18:34, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T18:34:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-06T18:34:00.000Z-AutomaticStrikeout-2013-12-06T15:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

There he goes again, this is the third time I am raising a report against User:No such user. He never tries to talk to me, he just [back] and is abusing the tool. I have never ever made an edit that can look like vandalism. You banned me once, you warned me so I am not banned again. But I am finding it hard in this climate, any edit I do to any page is wrong whether it is sourced or not. If he want to undo edits, let him do it the old-fashioned conventional way. I believe this to amount to stalking, he just follows my edits and rollbacks. --Cognoscerapo (talk) 15:57, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T15:57:00.000Z","author":"Cognoscerapo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cognoscerapo-2013-12-06T15:57:00.000Z-No_such_user_and_Rollback","replies":[]}}-->

.

That is actually pretty much true: since not even one of your edits was nowhere near our key policies such as WP:NPOV and WP:V, and some were easily proven to be fabrications, I gave up assuming good faith on your part and, consequently, bothering to undo the damage in any other way than a rollback. Technically, use of rollback is tolerated for mass reverting of blatant damage which does not fall into the realm of "simple vandalism", such as the ones you make.
I must say I miss the good ol' times of rouge admins quickly dispersing users whose sole mission is to disseminate The Truth and don't even bother to conceal it... Ah, finally blocked by Joy. Nothing personal, Drmies, on the contrary, you should proudly wear a rouge badge. No such user (talk) 16:51, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T16:51:00.000Z","author":"No such user","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-No_such_user-2013-12-06T16:51:00.000Z-No_such_user_and_Rollback","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-06T18:44:00.000Z-No_such_user-2013-12-06T16:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

• The block button is an enticing tool and I prefer to err on the side of caution. Contrary to popular belief, "uncivil" editors aren't the big problem in this joint--POV warriors are. No such user, the editor was headed that way weeks ago already, of course, but you'll have to forgive me for not knowing the ins and outs of Servian/Croatian/Serbo-Croatian/Albanian/Macedonian/Greek/Turkish/Bosnian naming, politics, geography, etc. If US or Western-European politics are involved it's easy for me, but here it is not, so I was waiting, I suppose, for someone more knowledgeable than me to pull the trigger. Still, I thank you for the badge, and I assume you left a nice bottle of beer or an early Christmas present for Joy. Drmies (talk) 18:44, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T18:44:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-06T18:44:00.000Z-No_such_user-2013-12-06T16:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Xanthomelanoussprog-2013-12-07T11:06:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T18:44:00.000Z","c-Mr.choppers-2013-12-11T02:51:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T18:44:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Just down the road from me, just past the Dar-es-Salaam mosque and round a corner from a redundant synagogue is the Serbian Chetnik Club. None of the Poles and Somalis round here know what a Chetnik is- I just hope the Serbs don't know either. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 11:06, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T11:06:00.000Z","author":"Xanthomelanoussprog","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Xanthomelanoussprog-2013-12-07T11:06:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T18:44:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

"Rouge" or "Rogue"? Or both?  Mr.choppers | ✎  02:51, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-11T02:51:00.000Z","author":"Mr.choppers","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Mr.choppers-2013-12-11T02:51:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-06T18:44:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Mr.choppers\u00a0|"}}-->

You are invited to edit the new article Gingerbread house. We hope for a Christmas DYK, and wish you were there to explain about the secrets of the Dutch gingerbread house making. Hafspajen (talk) 12:15, 7 December 2013 (UTC)^{Everybody is invited, but don't mess with the galleries, please.}[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T12:15:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T12:15:00.000Z-Christmas_DYK","replies":["c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T16:29:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T12:15:00.000Z","c-Hafspajen-2013-12-08T19:35:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T12:15:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Detect some anymosity towards our good friend The Bracket the bot. If you do not wish him her arround, just put this on the talkpage, [[Category:Wikipedians who have opted out of BracketBot messages] {{NoBracketBot} (With the proper amount of brackets, of course). Hafspajen (talk) 16:29, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T16:29:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T16:29:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T12:15:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• Do you have any Gingerbread houses in Holland? or anywhere in the Nederlands? Hafspajen (talk) 19:35, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-08T19:35:00.000Z","author":"Hafspajen","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Hafspajen-2013-12-08T19:35:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-07T12:15:00.000Z","replies":["c-Drmies-2013-12-09T03:15:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-08T19:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

• No, we have nothing like it. I know there's cookies and those molds, but no house or anything like it. You stand more of a chance in Germany: perhaps they build houses out of Lebkuchen... Drmies (talk) 03:15, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-09T03:15:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-09T03:15:00.000Z-Hafspajen-2013-12-08T19:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for helping keep Wikipedia online and ad-free. It's been a year since we've asked. This is your annual reminder.

If all our past donors simply gave again today, we wouldn't have to worry about fundraising for the rest of the year. Please help us get back to improving Wikipedia.

We are the small non-profit that runs the #5 website in the world. We have only 175 staff but serve 500 million users, and have costs like any other top site: servers, power, programs, and people.

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To protect our independence, we'll never run ads. We take no government funds. We survive on donations from our readers. Now is the time we ask.

If Wikipedia is useful to you, please take one minute to give $20, $30, $50 or whatever you can to keep it online and ad-free another year.

https://donate.wikimedia.org

Thanks, Jimmy Wales Wikipedia Founder

• I'll get right on it--as soon as I get that admin t-shirt in the mail. Drmies (talk) 17:55, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T17:55:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Drmies-2013-12-07T17:55:00.000Z-From_our_founder,_Jimbo_Wales:_found_this_in_my_inbox","replies":["c-Yngvadottir-2013-12-07T19:05:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-07T17:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ewww. I saw that ad after they logged me out and it still makes me spit. What they actually spend the haul on - other than enriching themselves - is undermining Wikipedia. And I do so hope the two Toolserver sysadmins got good jobs for a more grateful outfit. Ewwwwww. Yngvadottir (talk) 19:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T19:05:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2013-12-07T19:05:00.000Z-Drmies-2013-12-07T17:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Eric_Corbett-2013-12-07T19:30:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-07T19:05:00.000Z"]}}-->

The WMF set off on the wrong path many years ago, and have lost sight of where they ought to be going. To take just one example, how many WMF employes speak Cherokee, or any of the Slavik languages? The truth is that they've got no idea what's being done in the name of Wikipedia. It's not about making the sum of all human knowledge available in every known language, including Klingon apparently, it's about making the sum of all human knowledge freely available. Or at least it ought to be, if the Californian sun hasn't fried your brain. Eric Corbett 19:30, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T19:30:00.000Z","author":"Eric Corbett","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Eric_Corbett-2013-12-07T19:30:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2013-12-07T19:05:00.000Z","replies":["c-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-07T19:44:00.000Z-Eric_Corbett-2013-12-07T19:30:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Eric"}}-->

To be fair, given that WMF employees legally can't edit Wikipedia as employees (something about retaining safe harbor status, which gives legal protection against user-submitted copyvio, I think), does it really matter if they don't employ people who speak all the languages? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 19:44, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T19:44:00.000Z","author":"Writ Keeper","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-07T19:44:00.000Z-Eric_Corbett-2013-12-07T19:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Eric_Corbett-2013-12-07T19:47:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-07T19:44:00.000Z","c-Eric_Corbett-2013-12-07T19:52:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-07T19:44:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Writ\u00a0Keeper"}}-->

Depends on whether or not you believe that slander/libel in Cherokee is less important than in English, French, Spanish or German. My basic point though is that the "in every known language" is a recipe for disaster. Eric Corbett 19:47, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T19:47:00.000Z","author":"Eric Corbett","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Eric_Corbett-2013-12-07T19:47:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-07T19:44:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Eric"}}-->

Just to be clear, if I was in charge of the WMF I'd close down all of the minor and invented language Wikipedias. If their editors consider them to be important they can easily set up their own Wikis. Luckily for them though it's rather unlikely that I'll be appointed as the WMF's next executive director, and equally lucky for the 50 percent of WMF staff I'd "let go" on my first day in office. Eric Corbett 19:52, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-07T19:52:00.000Z","author":"Eric Corbett","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Eric_Corbett-2013-12-07T19:52:00.000Z-Writ_Keeper-2013-12-07T19:44:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Eric"}}-->