This is an archive of past discussions with User:Bellhalla. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Just curious, when do you start writing articles again? I have been waiting long time to see them coming. Or, you want to concentrate on sorting, assessment and this kind of stuff for some more time? - DSachan (talk) 08:06, 4 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-04T08:06:00.000Z","author":"DSachan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DSachan-2009-08-04T08:06:00.000Z-Articles","replies":[]}}-->

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter Issue XLI (July 2009)
From the coordinators Don't forget that the next Military history coordinator elections take place in September. You might like to start thinking about whether you are interested in standing. More information to follow in the next edition of The Bugle. In the meantime, enjoy the remainder of the holiday season and come back refreshed and raring to go!  Roger Davies talk 02:00, 8 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-08T02:00:00.000Z","author":"Roger Davies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Roger_Davies-2009-08-08T02:00:00.000Z-The_Military_history_WikiProject_Newsletter_:_XLI_(July_2009)","replies":[],"displayName":"Roger\u00a0Davies"}}-->	Articles of note New featured articles: Albert Kesselring Adrian Cole (RAAF officer) Ba Cut Battle of Bosworth Field Battle of Corydon Edgar Towner Helgoland class battleship Maiden Castle, Dorset New featured lists: Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps Commandant of the Marine Corps List of First World War Victoria Cross recipients List of Jewish Medal of Honor recipients List of African American Medal of Honor recipients Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps New featured pictures: Burning of the United States Capitol Charge of the Light Brigade Vice Admiral John Duncan Bulkeley, USN New A-Class articles: 7th Infantry Division (United States) British Army during World War I Byzantine civil war of 1341–1347 Convoy GP55 HMS Endeavour John Lerew Kaiser class battleship List of foreign recipients of the Knight's Cross SMS Blücher
Project news We current have an astonishing fifty articles within our scope up for promotion to Good Article and it's a bit backlogged. Can you help with reviewing to speed up the process? The Military history Academy content drive is underway with nearly twenty new essays so far. More contributions are welcome. Just click on the one of the redlinks here and start writing! Are you missing out on an A-Class medal? These are for editors who have significantly contributed to three or more military history A-Class articles promoted since 1 August 2008. Alternatively, perhaps you can help with reviewing? For more information, see here. More eyes would be welcome on the ten articles currently being peer reviewed. It doesn't take long to peer review an article and your perspective is appreciated!
Contest department The Contest department has completed its twenty-eighth month of competition, with 77 articles entered by 9 editors. Sturmvogel 66 was placed first again this month with an amazing 94 points, closely followed by Ed! at 91 points. They receive the Chevrons and the Writer's Barnstar respectively. Parsecboy commendably came third with 76 points, with honorable mentions going to Woody (29), Wild Wolf (25), Ian Rose (21), and AustralianRupert (16). Thanks go to Starstriker7 and Piotrus, who also fielded entries.
Awards and honours Congratulations go to Parsecboy, who has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves for bringing almost all of the WWI-era German battleships up to GA, A, or FA class. His single-minded determination in this field has helped immeasurably with the project's WWI Centennial Drive. The A-Class Medal goes to MisterBee1966 for List of German World War II jet aces, Werner Mölders and List of foreign recipients of the Knight's Cross; and to Parsecboy for Helgoland class battleship, Kaiser class battleship and SMS Blücher. Well done!
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

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Hi Bellhalla, I've been working on improving the article for this ships class, the Type C4 class ship. However, I've found that there are class articles for the ships that were used as hospital ships (Haven class hospital ship) and as troop transports (General G. O. Squier class transport ship). Should these be seperate articles or do you think that they should be merged? I also redirected the article for the SS Marine Star as it's under one of the previous names for the ship, the SS Aquarama. The article article for the Aquarama needs work but there is enough information available to expand it. I found a start class article for the SS Marine Marlin and corrected the article name as well. On a personal note, the Aquarama was berthed for many years a few miles from my house prior to its scrapping. Shinerunner (talk) 13:18, 15 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-15T13:18:00.000Z","author":"Shinerunner","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shinerunner-2009-08-15T13:18:00.000Z-Re:_USNS_Private_Leonard_C._Brostrom_(T-AK-255)","replies":[]}}-->

Hey, maybe you find German cruisers to be a bummer, but some of us find them interesting! :D Parsecboy (talk) 15:49, 17 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-17T15:49:00.000Z","author":"Parsecboy","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Parsecboy-2009-08-17T15:49:00.000Z-Brummer","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, Bellhalla. You have new messages at Talk:German Type UC I submarine.
Message added 13:15, 22 August 2009 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I created many -- not all -- of those categories. I am not married to the idea of what I called each one, and there is value in standardization. But too much insistence on exact terminonology can lead to its own problems, and this must be considered as the categories are renamed. Some examples are:

One of the ships transferred to the Japanese Navy was actually trhe destroyer USS Stewart, captured (okay, not really "transferred") at Java in 1942 and placed in service with the Imperial Japanese Navy. I picked "Japanese Navy" because it conveys the idea of the naval forces of Japan colloquially without requiring a distinction between the Imperial Japanese Navy and the JMSDF. To be accurate, you would have to create a category of "transferred to Japan" and then have two categories within it, one for the IJN and one for the JMSDF. Actually, that's okay, but it's more complicated and requires more clicking.

"Marina Militaire" is Italian for "Navy", so saying "transferred to the Marina Militaire" just means "transferred to the Navy", requiring greater understanding of Italian and of the Italian Navy than can be expected of worldwide English-speaking users of Wikipedia. I think that "Marina Militaire" best translates to "Italian Navy," and this is the English-language Wikipedia, after all.

Ditto the Colombian National Armada. "Armada" in Spanish means "Navy" in English in this case, and does not really translate to the English usage of "armada", as in "Spanish Armada." In the English Wikipedia, the nest translation is "Colombian National Navy," not "Colombian National Armada" -- which cherry-picks the English translation of "Colombian National" but not of "Navy" (Armada). Heck, that applies to the article on the Colombian Navy itself, I suppose.

The modern trend toward expressing everything in something as close to the home country's description or terminology is valuable and laudable, but much of it goes to far when it fails to properly translate foreign terms into the plain English in actually translates to.

Other entries you propose to change make sense. Any English speaker can understand Royal Thai Navy, Belgian Naval Component, and so forth.

So I think a review is necesary to ensure that full English translations are used ("Armada") and that the new terminology is obvious to an English speaker in terms of which country and which navy is being referred to (Marina Militaire).

My two cents' worth.

(By the way, I came up with the awkward "transferred to the Royal Navy (United Kingdom)" terminology because I 1) did not want to say British Navy, but 2) realized that non-experts would not know which navy was the "royal" one -- sort of the same problem as "Marina Militaire," but without the added problem of translation into English.) Mdnavman (talk) 19:04, 23 August 2009 (UTC)mdnavman__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-23T19:04:00.000Z","author":"Mdnavman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mdnavman-2009-08-23T19:04:00.000Z-Renaming_of_\"Ships_transferred_to\"_categories","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-08-24T12:00:00.000Z-Mdnavman-2009-08-23T19:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for the explanations. I'm not married to any of the names I suggested, but specifically chose the names that match each navy's article and/or main category. So using "Greek Navy" (even though that adequately describes it), when the entity's article is at Hellenic Navy and categorized in Category:Hellenic Navy, just doesn't make sense to me. To look at the Italian example, though, Marina Militare was suggested to distinguish the post-1946 navy of Italy from the pre-1946 Regia Marina. And as far as the Japanese Navy category is concerned: I wouldn't expect any ship that was captured to be in any one of the "United States Navy ships transferred to…" categories, since transfer implies a measure of control on the part of the U.S. and/or U.S. Navy. — Bellhalla (talk) 12:00, 24 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-24T12:00:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-08-24T12:00:00.000Z-Mdnavman-2009-08-23T19:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-Mdnavman-2009-08-30T05:22:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-08-24T12:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

I take your points, and I see that the categories have been renamed. Like I said above, "Colombian National Armada" is a sort of a half-English, half-Spanish (Spanglish?) creole meaning "Colombian National Navy," so using "Armada" (Spanish for "Navy") is unnecessary and a bit eclectic, given that other Spanish-speaking navies have not been changed into "armadas" as well in the categories. (No, I don't recommend such a change.) But, leaving Colombia aside as sort of an eclectic one-off, I only really have a problem with two of the name changes:

1) "Hellenic Navy" will meet the needs only of a Wikipedia user informed enough to know that Greece's navy is called the Hellenic Navy; it was far more accessible to the average user to say "Greek Navy." Perhaps a compromise would be "Hellenic Navy (Greece)" -- much as we have "Royal Navy (United Kingdom)"?

2) The "Marina Militaire" change has wiped out all English-language-accessible reference to Italy and its navy, and requires people to understand a foreign-language term not in common use in English. I really think we need to keep that category accessible to the inexpert and to the Italian-language-challenged. I'm not sure the U.S. Navy ever transferred any ships to the Regia Marina, and therefore am not sure the Regia Marina/Marina Militaire distinction matters in this category, but if that matters to somebody, how about a compromise like "Marina Militaire (Italy) so that both English-speakers and the navally uninformed have a fighting chance?

I just don't think that the Hellenic and Marina Militaire changes, although clearly of greater terminological purity, have helped people navigate their way around the Wiki, and I suspect the changes have indeed made it harder without any offsetting gain for the general public. Mdnavman (talk) 05:22, 30 August 2009 (UTC)mdnavman__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-30T05:22:00.000Z","author":"Mdnavman","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mdnavman-2009-08-30T05:22:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-08-24T12:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-08-30T11:01:00.000Z-Mdnavman-2009-08-30T05:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

I understand what you are saying and am not unsympathetic to it. I outlined the reasons why I nominated the categories at the CFD discussion (in which you were certainly welcome to participate) and above in reply to your original comment. One problem I see with your suggested parenthetical names is that on Wikipedia, parentheticals are usually disambiguators between items with the same or very similar names. Since there is only one Marina Mailitare (that I'm aware of, at least), many at WP would see that the addition of "(Italy)" to that as redundant, or unnecessary disambiguation.

As far as the names, however, if you feel that Greek Navy and Italian Navy are more common English names, make a move proposal (see Wikipedia:Requested moves for details). If the articles are moved, I'll be happy to support moving all of the necessary categories. — Bellhalla (talk) 11:01, 30 August 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-08-30T11:01:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-08-30T11:01:00.000Z-Mdnavman-2009-08-30T05:22:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

In infobox there is information that this ship can have 221 patients - but in text Both ships were outfitted with state-of-the-art operating rooms and X-ray labs and could accommodate 500 patients each. So can you precise from when are information in infobox ?

Also - do you know why that ship was decommisioned ? Too old or US Navy was have too many hospital ships ?

PMG (talk) 22:20, 6 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-06T22:20:00.000Z","author":"PMG","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-PMG-2009-09-06T22:20:00.000Z-USS_Mercy_(AH-4)","replies":[]}}-->

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process has started; to elect the coordinators to serve for the next six months. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 (UTC) on 12 September!
Many thanks,  Roger Davies ^talk 04:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-07T04:24:00.000Z","author":"Roger Davies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Roger_Davies-2009-09-07T04:24:00.000Z-Nominations_open_for_the_Military_history_WikiProject_coordinator_election","replies":["c-MBK004-2009-09-12T05:53:00.000Z-Roger_Davies-2009-09-07T04:24:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Roger\u00a0Davies"}}-->

I hope this message finds you well, and I hope you plan to run for re-election, but if you have decided against another term, please consider notating that choice on the election page in the table here. -MBK₀₀₄ 05:53, 12 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-12T05:53:00.000Z","author":"MBK004","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-MBK004-2009-09-12T05:53:00.000Z-Roger_Davies-2009-09-07T04:24:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"MBK"}}-->

Hi Bellhalla, I encountered this template tagged for speedy deletion, and since it was under your name and only being used within the userspace (here), I've moved it to User:Bellhalla/N/A. It looks like it's transcluded several times on the Oiler page, so I won't delete the "Template:" redirect yet. JamieS93 19:04, 12 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-12T19:04:00.000Z","author":"JamieS93","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JamieS93-2009-09-12T19:04:00.000Z-Userfied_old_template","replies":["c-JamieS93-2009-09-12T19:21:00.000Z-JamieS93-2009-09-12T19:04:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Jamie"}}-->

I've switched all of the transclusions to the now-userspace template, and deleted the template-space redirect. Just bringing it to your attention, although nothing needs to be done about it anymore. ;) Best, JamieS93 19:21, 12 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-12T19:21:00.000Z","author":"JamieS93","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-JamieS93-2009-09-12T19:21:00.000Z-JamieS93-2009-09-12T19:04:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Jamie"}}-->

Please note that I added a line of code to Template:Cite Miramar. The purpose of that line is to find all usages of the accessmonthday and accessdaymonth parameters, which are deprecated. The goal is to eliminate their occurance, as has been done for {{Cite web}} and other templates already. Then the code will be changed to stop supporting these parameters at all. Debresser (talk) 12:56, 13 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-13T12:56:00.000Z","author":"Debresser","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Debresser-2009-09-13T12:56:00.000Z-Cite_Miramar","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-09-13T14:25:00.000Z-Debresser-2009-09-13T12:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for fixing the template and the heads up! — Bellhalla (talk) 14:25, 13 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-13T14:25:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-09-13T14:25:00.000Z-Debresser-2009-09-13T12:56:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter Issue XLII (August 2009)
From the coordinators The voting phase of the eighth coordinator elections, for the October–March term, started on 13 September and will run until 23:59 Sat 26 September. Each candidate garnering twenty or more endorsements will be appointed, to a maximum of fifteen. This election has a strong field of sixteen candidates running, offering many skills and representing all aspects of the project. The Contest Department is going from strength to strength and drew a massive number of entries in August (see the results below). If you haven't fielded any entries yet, please think about doing so. It's great fun!  Roger Davies talk 14:02, 11 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-11T14:02:00.000Z","author":"Roger Davies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Roger_Davies-2009-09-11T14:02:00.000Z-The_Military_history_WikiProject_Newsletter_:_XLII_(August_2009)","replies":[],"displayName":"Roger\u00a0Davies"}}-->	Articles of note New featured articles: Convoy GP55 George Koval HMS Endeavour James Newland John Lerew Kaiser class battleship Keith Johnson (cricket administrator) König class battleship Siward, Earl of Northumbria Unification of Germany Victoria Cross for Australia New featured lists: List of Second World War Victoria Cross recipients List of Victoria Cross recipients by campaign Marine Corps Brevet Medal Order of battle at the Battle of San Domingo New featured pictures: "Students Going to Man the Fortifications" "Our New 'First Lord' at Sea" New A-Class articles: 24th Infantry Division (United States) Bayern class battleship Derfflinger class battlecruiser Egmont Prinz zur Lippe-Weißenfeld Ellis Wackett No. 3 Commando Operation Pleshet SMS König SMS Hindenburg
Project news People with an interest in clearly presenting battle information, and First World War buffs, will find the discussion about a new campaign box for the Battle of the Somme interesting. With the recent increase in enthusiasm, Wikipedia-wide, for creating "outline" articles, there's an ongoing discussion here. The idea is to produce guidelines for overview articles for Milhist editors and reviewers. Proposals have been made to introduce a new self-scoring "honour" system for Contest Department entries. Contributions, especially from regular nominees, are welcome.
Contest Department The Contest department has completed its twenty-ninth month of competition, with 145 articles entered by 13 editors. Sturmvogel 66 was placed first again this month with an amazing 101 points, closely followed by Georgejdorner at 98 points. They receive the Chevrons and the Writer's Barnstar respectively. Parsecboy commendably came third with 88 points, with honorable mentions going to AustralianRupert (68), Kumioko (66), Ed! (32), Ian Rose (26) and radek (11). Our thanks go to AM, David Underdown, Work permit, Yellow Monkey and Wild Wolf, who also fielded entries.
Awards and honours The Milhist A-Class medal goes to: Parsecboy for König class battleship, SMS König, and Derfflinger class battlecruiser; and to Ed! for 7th Infantry Division (United States), 24th Infantry Division (United States) and I Corps (United States).
Editorial: Getting to FAC via A-Class - some interesting new facts Well, it’s official. Milhist articles have a much better than average chance of success as featured article candidates. MBK004 has done some useful number-crunching following the fortunes of the 97 Milhist featured article candidates submitted between January and July this year. The research shows that 70% of Milhist articles were promoted against an overall average of 51%. Looking behind the figures, some other interesting facts emerge. First, 84% of our promoted articles had successfully passed a Milhist A-Class Review before going on to FAC. Second, of the 29 Milhist articles that failed, less than half (41%) had had an A-Class Review. Third, the 97 Milhist articles accounted for 16% of all FACs submitted between January and July of this year. The clear lesson is that if you want a string of featured articles to your credit, you may find Milhist's A-class Review process to be of benefit to you!  Roger Davies talk
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 18:55, 13 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-13T18:55:00.000Z","author":"BrownBot","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BrownBot-2009-09-13T18:55:00.000Z-The_Military_history_WikiProject_Newsletter_:_XLII_(August_2009)","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Belhalla, could you help us out in the academy and write a section about photography. How do you take pictures (mostly in museums) and how you enhace them to be good presentations in wikipedia. I'll help you and write about documenting such a photosession. Thanks a lot. Greetings Wandalstouring (talk) 10:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-15T10:35:00.000Z","author":"Wandalstouring","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Wandalstouring-2009-09-15T10:35:00.000Z-Helping_out_in_the_academy","replies":[]}}-->

I know you say on your user page that you don't want the drama of being an administrator, but wouldn't it be handy to edit protected pages? ;) It is clear to me from your edit history that you are as trustworthy an editor as we have, and that should be enough for adminship. You certainly do not have to spend all your time on ANI, or closing XfD discussions, or blocking vandals, etc. I have been an admin for a couple of years, and I certainly don't do any of that! But I do a lot of work with protected templates, fixing page moves, etc. and it is awfully handy to have all the tools at your disposal. Think about it and let me know, and I would be happy to nominate you. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 02:36, 17 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-17T02:36:00.000Z","author":"Andrwsc","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Andrwsc-2009-09-17T02:36:00.000Z-Wouldn't_\"the_bit\"_be_handy?","replies":[]}}-->

Voting in the Military history WikiProject coordinator election has now started. The aim is to elect the coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of sixteen candidates. Please vote here by 23:59 (UTC) on 26 September!
For the coordinators,  Roger Davies ^talk 22:09, 16 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-16T22:09:00.000Z","author":"Roger Davies","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Roger_Davies-2009-09-16T22:09:00.000Z-Military_history_coordinator_elections:_voting_has_started!","replies":[],"displayName":"Roger\u00a0Davies"}}-->

Hi! I realized that you've recently removed the ship prefixes in the article Turkish Navy. May I ask why the USN prefixes still remain in the article United States Navy ships? Thanks if you have time to reply. Cheers. CeeGee (talk) 17:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-17T17:23:00.000Z","author":"CeeGee","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-CeeGee-2009-09-17T17:23:00.000Z-Turkish_Navy","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-09-17T18:46:00.000Z-CeeGee-2009-09-17T17:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well, when the article is about the Turkish Navy and discussing Turkish ships, I feel that it's a bit redundant to to keep repeating the TCG prefix, especially in prose (as opposed to a list form). WikiProject Ships has a style guideline that addresses this issue: Wikipedia:WikiProject Ships/Guidelines#Referring to ships. As far as the United States Navy ships article, most of the links are presented in list form, where the de facto consensus seems to include ship prefixes. (See, for example, List of ships of the Polish Navy.)

As an aside, I'm planning on revisiting the Turkish Navy article (when I finish a couple of other projects) and making links to articles for a lot of those ships. It seemed to me that a majority of the links were to the namesakes of the ships and not the ships themselves. For example, the WWII-era submarine can be reached via TCG Oruç Reis, but the link is to Oruç Reis, the article on the 16th-century Turkish privateer. — Bellhalla (talk) 18:46, 17 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-17T18:46:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-09-17T18:46:00.000Z-CeeGee-2009-09-17T17:23:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Thank you so much for the detailed information. Cheers. CeeGee (talk) 19:27, 19 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-19T19:27:00.000Z","author":"CeeGee","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-CeeGee-2009-09-19T19:27:00.000Z-Turkish_Navy","replies":[]}}-->

Hiya Bellhalla. Nice work with the categories; they might actually be organized and uniform when you are done! :-) I come here with a request, though; could you copyedit Brazilian cruiser Bahia as part of its A-class review and eventual FAC? Thanks a lot, —Ed (Talk • Contribs) 01:33, 19 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-19T01:33:00.000Z","author":"The ed17","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_ed17-2009-09-19T01:33:00.000Z-Hey","replies":["c-The_ed17-2009-09-22T02:09:00.000Z-The_ed17-2009-09-19T01:33:00.000Z","c-The_ed17-2009-09-22T03:45:00.000Z-The_ed17-2009-09-19T01:33:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Ed"}}-->

A slightly belated thank you for the copyediting. I'm still working on getting to your hidden comments (computer troubles, RL issues and RfAs suck up way too much time, IMO). —Ed17 (talk • contribs) 02:09, 22 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-22T02:09:00.000Z","author":"The ed17","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-The_ed17-2009-09-22T02:09:00.000Z-The_ed17-2009-09-19T01:33:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Ed17"}}-->

One quick question: what is up with the missing page number ref you added? Should I attempt to find a different ref for it? —Ed17 (talk • contribs) 03:45, 22 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-22T03:45:00.000Z","author":"The ed17","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-The_ed17-2009-09-22T03:45:00.000Z-The_ed17-2009-09-19T01:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-09-22T11:09:00.000Z-The_ed17-2009-09-22T03:45:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Ed17"}}-->

I just 'borrowed' that ref from the U-boat's article. Since that particular book is in Spanish, I wasn't sure if it would be in Google books (or if there, if I would be able to find any specific passage). If you eliminate the 'under strange circumstances' part, you can use Uboat.net (link) as a source for the surrender. — Bellhalla (talk) 11:09, 22 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-22T11:09:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-09-22T11:09:00.000Z-The_ed17-2009-09-22T03:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for your service as coordinator on WPr Military History for the last six months. Great job, the Wikiproject has matured some more. Lots more needs to be done though.

Would you consider giving a para here on what you planned to do, what you could achieve, what gave you happiness, what irritated you and your suggestions for the road ahead to the new team?

AshLin (talk) 04:06, 23 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-23T04:06:00.000Z","author":"AshLin","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AshLin-2009-09-23T04:06:00.000Z-Thanks_and_a_request!","replies":[]}}-->

I know you're likely to be extremely busy; but if you have time, would you willing to copyedit Japanese battleship Yamato? It's in need of a few prose tweaks before an eventual FAC. Cam ^(Chat) 05:05, 23 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-23T05:05:00.000Z","author":"Climie.ca","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Climie.ca-2009-09-23T05:05:00.000Z-copyedit_request","replies":[],"displayName":"Cam"}}-->

		The WikiProject Barnstar
		In gratitude for your coordination services to the Military history WikiProject, from March 2009 to September 2009, please accept this barnstar. --TomStar81 (Talk) 02:24, 27 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-27T02:24:00.000Z","author":"TomStar81","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-TomStar81-2009-09-27T02:24:00.000Z-Thank_You","replies":[]}}-->

Hello! A month and a half ago you created the redirects:

• List of cruisers of the Indian Navy → List of cruisers#India
• List of cruisers of the Pakistan Navy → List of cruisers#Pakistan

but those sections have still not been created. Are they still expected to be, or are these redirects permanently dead and broken? -- ToE^T 08:40, 27 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-27T08:40:00.000Z","author":"Thinking of England","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thinking_of_England-2009-09-27T08:40:00.000Z-List_of_cruisers_of_the_Indian_and_Pakistan_Navy","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-09-27T11:52:00.000Z-Thinking_of_England-2009-09-27T08:40:00.000Z"],"displayName":"ToE"}}-->

I've added the two sections. — Bellhalla (talk) 11:52, 27 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-27T11:52:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-09-27T11:52:00.000Z-Thinking_of_England-2009-09-27T08:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Thinking_of_England-2009-09-27T12:17:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-09-27T11:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank-you muchly! -- ToE^T 12:17, 27 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-27T12:17:00.000Z","author":"Thinking of England","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Thinking_of_England-2009-09-27T12:17:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-09-27T11:52:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"ToE"}}-->

Could you contribute to the discussion at Say no to Linkspam: OCLC Online Computer Library, as I believe the OCLC parameter was introduced to the Template:infobox Book. I believe the rationale was to provide an additional catalogue reference, but it is unclear why this particular catalogue system was chosem, or who made the choice. --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 11:59, 28 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-28T11:59:00.000Z","author":"Gavin.collins","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gavin.collins-2009-09-28T11:59:00.000Z-Say_no_to_Linkspam:_OCLC_Online_Computer_Library","replies":[],"displayName":"Gavin Collins"}}-->

...For fixing the tense in Tanager Expedition. I was experimenting and forgot to self-revert. Viriditas (talk) 19:52, 30 September 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-09-30T19:52:00.000Z","author":"Viriditas","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Viriditas-2009-09-30T19:52:00.000Z-Thanks","replies":[]}}-->

I'd drop the Stalingrad-class ships from the Soviet BCs of WWII category. Preliminary design work may have started during the war, but no metal was cut until well after the end of the war. And do we really need separate categories when each only has, or should have, one article in each? Personally, I'd drop them as I think the general category is quite enough. Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 14:25, 2 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-02T14:25:00.000Z","author":"Sturmvogel 66","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sturmvogel_66-2009-10-02T14:25:00.000Z-Soviet_Battlecruiser_categories","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-10-02T14:41:00.000Z-Sturmvogel_66-2009-10-02T14:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

The scope of "World War II [ship types] of [country]" typically includes those designed, built, or operated by that country during WWII, which was the reason for its inclusion. If you believe it's better not to have the Stalingrad-class in the WWII category, I'll defer to your opinion. I also note (now) that, similarly, they are not included in Template:WWIISovietShips.

As far as the categories, I'm assuming your referring to Category:World War II battlecruisers of the Soviet Union and Category:Cold War battlecruisers of the Soviet Union? The former is a member of Category:World War II battlecruisers, which makes it useful for comparing with other navies operating battlecruisers during WWII. The latter category is beneficial if a reader navigates to Category:Battlecruisers by era to see that battlecruisers were in service beyond WWII. — Bellhalla (talk) 14:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-02T14:41:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-10-02T14:41:00.000Z-Sturmvogel_66-2009-10-02T14:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sturmvogel_66-2009-10-02T15:06:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-10-02T14:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

The bulk of, if not all of, the actual detailed design work occurred after the war, so, yeah, I don't think that they should be counted as WWII ships. I didn't check out the full hierarchy of the categories, but I have no problem with them now that you've explained your schema. So when are you going to start up again with the destroyer and submarine articles? We've missed them! --Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 15:06, 2 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-02T15:06:00.000Z","author":"Sturmvogel 66","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Sturmvogel_66-2009-10-02T15:06:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-10-02T14:41:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter Issue XLIII (September 2009)
From the coordinators Greetings to all members of the Military history WikiProject, and to those outside the project who receive this news letter as well! My name is TomStar81, and it with a great sense of pride that I assume the position of lead coordinator for the project. On behalf of all the coordinators, both new and returning, we wish to thank those of you who participated in the September elections, and we look forward to working to advance the goals of the project for the next six months. With the elections concluded, there are two changes. First, Roger Davies has been appointed a coordinator emeritus, joining our first coordinator emeritus Kirill Lokshin. Secondly, for the first time ever, the lead coordinator for the Military history WikiProject will be taking a lengthy wikibreak. For those who were unaware of this, I am an undergraduate student, and will be taking a leave of absence, effective end September, to focus on graduating in December. However, with fourteen coordinators, and two coordinators emeritus, I am confident the needs of the project will be well taken care of. For the VIII coordinator tranche, TomStar81 (Talk)	Articles of note New featured articles: Battle of Grand Port Derfflinger class battlecruiser Fredonian Rebellion Hermann Detzner Henry Wells (general) Joe Hewitt (RAAF officer) Simon Bolivar Buckner SMS Hindenburg Werner Mölders New featured lists: List of Medal of Honor recipients for World War I New featured topics: Derfflinger class battlecruisers Lists of Victoria Cross recipients by campaign New featured pictures: Beijing Castle in the Boxer Rebellion Fort Baker at San Francisco Bay RAN Squirrel helicopter New A-Class articles: 1982 British Army Gazelle friendly fire incident Brazilian cruiser Bahia I Corps (United States) North Carolina class battleship Siege of Kimberley SMS Derfflinger SMS Kurfürst Friedrich Wilhelm SMS Lützow‎
Project news Congratulations go to The_ed17 for successfully passing his Request for Adminship.
Contest Department This month witnessed an all new and improved scoring system and process established in the Contest Department, which has run both smoothly and successfully. A total of 54 articles were entered this month by 11 editors. Parsecboy placed first with an astonishing 143 points, followed by Sturmvogel 66 on 105 points. They receive the Chevrons and the Writer's Barnstar respectively. Honorable mentions go to the_ed17 (41), Auntieruth55 (38), AustralianRupert (17), Radeksz (12) and Ian Rose (11), with our thanks going to Piotrus, Abraham, B.S., Skinny87 and David Underdown, who also fielded entries. All interested editors are encouraged to submit entries for next month's contest; it can be a rather exciting experience!
Awards and honours The WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves has been awarded to Roger Davies for his outstanding leadership of the Military history WikiProject, including his introduction of the logistics department, his dedication to the Tag and Assess 2008 & B-class Assessment Drive efforts, and his astute advice and never-ending support and encouragement as both a coordinator and lead coordinator. The A-Class medal with Oak Leaves has been awarded to Parsecboy for his work on SMS Hindenburg, Bayern class battleship, and SMS Derfflinger.
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:45, 2 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-02T23:45:00.000Z","author":"BrownBot","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-BrownBot-2009-10-02T23:45:00.000Z-The_Military_history_WikiProject_Newsletter_:_XLIII_(September_2009)","replies":[]}}-->

Hi. According to WP:DASH and WP:HYPHEN, Category:Russo–Japanese cathead templates and Category:Sino–Japanese War cathead templates should use hyphens, not dashes, because "Russo-" and "Sino-" are prefixes rather than self-standing words. They can only be used when attached to another word, so hyphens are used. I was going to nominate them for speedy renaming but thought you could just change if you'd rather them since you were the creator. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:52, 6 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-06T02:52:00.000Z","author":"Good Olfactory","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Good_Olfactory-2009-10-06T02:52:00.000Z-Categories","replies":["c-Kusunose-2009-10-06T08:15:00.000Z-Good_Olfactory-2009-10-06T02:52:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Good Ol\u2019factory"}}-->

First Sino–Japanese War should use a hyphen as well. Please revert the page move. --Kusunose 08:15, 6 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-06T08:15:00.000Z","author":"Kusunose","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kusunose-2009-10-06T08:15:00.000Z-Good_Olfactory-2009-10-06T02:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-10-06T12:33:00.000Z-Kusunose-2009-10-06T08:15:00.000Z","c-Bellhalla-2009-10-06T12:33:00.000Z-Kusunose-2009-10-06T08:15:00.000Z-1"]}}-->

• Sigh*. I'll learn the difference… someday. :) Thanks for the heads up! — Bellhalla (talk) 12:33, 6 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-06T12:33:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-10-06T12:33:00.000Z-Kusunose-2009-10-06T08:15:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Oh, and someone already beat me to moving First Sino-Japanese War, so it's all good, I think. — Bellhalla (talk) 12:33, 6 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-06T12:33:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-10-06T12:33:00.000Z-Kusunose-2009-10-06T08:15:00.000Z-1","replies":["c-Good_Olfactory-2009-10-07T02:17:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-10-06T12:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, I took care of doing that for you. Coincidentally, someone entirely different had also moved Second Sino-Japanese War to Second Sino–Japanese War, so at least you can have the reassurance that you're not alone in your confusion. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:17, 7 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-07T02:17:00.000Z","author":"Good Olfactory","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Good_Olfactory-2009-10-07T02:17:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-10-06T12:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kusunose-2009-10-07T03:09:00.000Z-Good_Olfactory-2009-10-07T02:17:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Good Ol\u2019factory"}}-->

See User talk:Nihonjoe‎#Second Sino-Japanese War. That page was move to the title with an em-dash to be consistent with First Sino–Japanese War. --Kusunose 03:09, 7 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-07T03:09:00.000Z","author":"Kusunose","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Kusunose-2009-10-07T03:09:00.000Z-Good_Olfactory-2009-10-07T02:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Good_Olfactory-2009-10-07T04:20:00.000Z-Kusunose-2009-10-07T03:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

Classic cascade effect. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:20, 7 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-07T04:20:00.000Z","author":"Good Olfactory","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Good_Olfactory-2009-10-07T04:20:00.000Z-Kusunose-2009-10-07T03:09:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Good Ol\u2019factory"}}-->

Regarding the fix you had to make to Category:Bayan class cruisers, sorry ... that was my mistake [1]. — Kralizec! (talk) 17:16, 8 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-08T17:16:00.000Z","author":"Kralizec!","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kralizec!-2009-10-08T17:16:00.000Z-Fix_to_Category:Bayan_class_cruisers","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-10-08T20:46:00.000Z-Kralizec!-2009-10-08T17:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

No problems. Even I—yes, that's right, I—make mistakes. ;) (See the section above this one.) — Bellhalla (talk) 20:46, 8 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-08T20:46:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-10-08T20:46:00.000Z-Kralizec!-2009-10-08T17:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The article Grassy Bay has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No claim of notability, appears to be a geographical feature rather than a place of habitation. No references provided.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. LessHeard vanU (talk) 19:48, 10 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-10T19:48:00.000Z","author":"LessHeard vanU","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-LessHeard_vanU-2009-10-10T19:48:00.000Z-Proposed_deletion_of_Grassy_Bay","replies":[]}}-->

		The Categorisation Barnstar
		For all of your past and present work to sort out the nightmarish condition of the ships category tree. Much appreciated! Brad (talk) 04:09, 24 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-24T04:09:00.000Z","author":"Brad101","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Brad101-2009-10-24T04:09:00.000Z-Thanks_2","replies":["c-Gatoclass-2009-10-25T07:59:00.000Z-Brad101-2009-10-24T04:09:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Brad"}}-->

Seconded. You've been doing a great job on categories, a much neglected area of the project. Gatoclass (talk) 07:59, 25 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-25T07:59:00.000Z","author":"Gatoclass","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Gatoclass-2009-10-25T07:59:00.000Z-Brad101-2009-10-24T04:09:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-10-25T11:45:00.000Z-Gatoclass-2009-10-25T07:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you both for the kind words. It's been an area that's bugged me for some time. — Bellhalla (talk) 11:45, 25 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-25T11:45:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-10-25T11:45:00.000Z-Gatoclass-2009-10-25T07:59:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

{{Empire ships/sandbox}} which you created. Now superseded by the various templates for the Empire ships by first letter of suffix. Can we delete this now or do you see a use for it? Mjroots (talk) 07:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-25T07:39:00.000Z","author":"Mjroots","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mjroots-2009-10-25T07:39:00.000Z-Is_this_template_neeeded?","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-10-26T04:14:00.000Z-Mjroots-2009-10-25T07:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

Do you mean just the Template:Empire ships/sandbox itself, or do you mean Template:Empire ships and the sandbox template? If you mean both, I have no problem with deletion since, as you say, {{Empire ships}} has been superseded by the individual letter templates. If you just mean the sandbox, I'd say leave it; sandboxes can help other editors see how something was derived and even ideas that didn't work. — Bellhalla (talk) 04:14, 26 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-26T04:14:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-10-26T04:14:00.000Z-Mjroots-2009-10-25T07:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Mjroots-2009-10-27T10:35:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-10-26T04:14:00.000Z"]}}-->

Another use has been found for the {{Empire ships}} template - see the Empire ships article. Mjroots (talk) 10:35, 27 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-27T10:35:00.000Z","author":"Mjroots","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mjroots-2009-10-27T10:35:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-10-26T04:14:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I've created a redirect for this from its use on the {{Design 1015 ships}} template. A Yahoo search fails to find any sources for this one. Was SS Waban in service with the US Navy at any point? Mjroots (talk) 10:35, 27 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-27T10:35:00.000Z","author":"Mjroots","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mjroots-2009-10-27T10:35:00.000Z-USS_Waban_(ID-2355)","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-10-27T14:20:00.000Z-Mjroots-2009-10-27T10:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

When I created Template:Design 1015 ships (as well as others), I cross-referenced various pages at http://www.shipbuildinghistory.com with the SP/ID Civilian Vessels Index page at Navsource. It looks like there was a Waban that was assigned that ID number of 2355, but that vessel was a tug, and it never served in the United States Navy. The other Waban—your Norhauk—is unrelated to the tug and never served in the U.S. Navy, either. I've pointed the link in the 1015 navbox to the correct page now. Looks like I just missed the, well… boat, on this one… :) — Bellhalla (talk) 14:20, 27 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-27T14:20:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-10-27T14:20:00.000Z-Mjroots-2009-10-27T10:35:00.000Z","replies":["c-Mjroots-2009-10-27T14:39:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-10-27T14:20:00.000Z"]}}-->

OK, for a pennance you can convert the USS Waban (ID-2355) from a redirect to an article. :-p Mjroots (talk) 14:39, 27 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-27T14:39:00.000Z","author":"Mjroots","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mjroots-2009-10-27T14:39:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-10-27T14:20:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Just out of curiosity, would you happen to have/know anything on which convoys Bahia and Rio Grande do Sul escorted during the Second World War? I'm hoping to include a mention of at least one for each article (..when I write the latter, that is), integrating it like I did in the Nevada article:

One of the convoys that Nevada protected was troop convoy UT-2. UT-2 consisted of 20 transports and troopships and was escorted by nine destroyers, four fast minesweepers, a destroyer escort and Nevada all under the command of Rear Admiral Carleton F. Bryant, who also picked Nevada to be his flagship. After departing New York on 5 September, they set course for the North Channel; no contacts were made with any enemy, and the ships made it to their destination in ten days. The same ships then journeyed back to the United States in late September as Convoy TU-2 (Morison, Samuel Eliot (1956). Volume X, The Atlantic Battle Won. Boston: Little, Brown and Company. p. 134.).

—Ed (talk • contribs) 14:51, 27 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-27T14:51:00.000Z","author":"The ed17","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_ed17-2009-10-27T14:51:00.000Z-It's_a_mystery_to_me","replies":["c-Bellhalla-2009-10-27T15:48:00.000Z-The_ed17-2009-10-27T14:51:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Ed"}}-->

This google books link mentions both ships and gives an overview of the Brazilian WWII effort, which might give some additional background info. You might also try Convoy Web's search page, http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/hague/search3.php (I've apparently used my lifetime number of searches), which lists convoy escorts. Also, I found a link about RGdS: http://sixtant.net/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=818&Itemid=2; not sure how reliable, but you might be able to cross-ref with other sources. Given that both ships' names are also Brazilian cities, a web search, unfortunately, brings back a lot of chaff. — Bellhalla (talk) 15:48, 27 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-27T15:48:00.000Z","author":"Bellhalla","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bellhalla-2009-10-27T15:48:00.000Z-The_ed17-2009-10-27T14:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-The_ed17-2009-10-27T16:04:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-10-27T15:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yeah, I've used the first link before, while the second does not give anything (by the way, have you tried clearing your cache? You may be able to search again after doing that). Loving the third link, hopefully that will help in corroborating (it certainly doesn't look reliable :-) You and Mjroots are right about the web searches; eek. Thank you both! —Ed (talk • contribs) 16:04, 27 October 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-10-27T16:04:00.000Z","author":"The ed17","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-The_ed17-2009-10-27T16:04:00.000Z-Bellhalla-2009-10-27T15:48:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Ed"}}-->