Not happy with this. It's a mass of redirects, and some of the names chosen for the articles are not supported by the articles they redirect to, which brings up POV concerns in their naming. It's organized oddly, and some of the groups on here don't fit. I appreciate the effort, but this really is not suitable to go plastering on every article connected to Paganism/Neopaganism or Polytheism.
I'm not sure it can be fixed. Something like this has been tried in the past, but it wound up angering people at the attempt to group together traditions that many did not see as appropriate to group in that manner. Unless this can be completely rethought and seriously improved, I am removing it from the articles, at least for now. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 02:06, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-11-17T02:06:00.000Z","author":"Kathryn NicDh\u00e0na","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kathryn_NicDh\u00e0na-2007-11-17T02:06:00.000Z-Unhappy_with_this","replies":[]}}-->
Pigmanwhat?/trail 02:29, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-11-17T02:29:00.000Z","author":"Pigman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pigman-2007-11-17T02:29:00.000Z-Placing_code_here_for_the_moment","replies":[]}}-->
There are more problems which is why I put it here but these are for starters. Pigmanwhat?/trail 03:08, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-11-17T03:08:00.000Z","author":"Pigman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pigman-2007-11-17T03:08:00.000Z-Problems_with_this_template","replies":[]}}-->
Both I and others put effort into making this. I really think this should be reformed, not simply deleted. (Midnightblueowl (talk) 13:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-11-18T13:54:00.000Z","author":"Midnightblueowl","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Midnightblueowl-2007-11-18T13:54:00.000Z-All_that_effort....","replies":[]}}-->
yes, there is potential here. But at the moment, the organisation of topics strikes me as a bit naive. Blanking is not the way to go, but you should avoid widely transcluding the template as long as it is under development or dispute. dab (𒁳) 10:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-11-19T10:14:00.000Z","author":"Dbachmann","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dbachmann-2007-11-19T10:14:00.000Z-All_that_effort....","replies":[],"displayName":"dab"}}-->
Several templates have recently been produced and added to pages within this general area, namely:
I'm a bit concerned that this profusion has taken place without much discussion from editors who work on these articles. Some articles could conceivably be tagged with 3 or 4 of these templates: indeed, Wicca already has three. I mean no criticism of the creators of the templates - but I suggest that this should be discussed centrally so that there is a degree of uniformity in articles within the same family. If you would like to join this discussion, please do not reply here, but go instead to the talk page I have set up for this purpose. Many thanks! Kim Dent-Brown (Talk) 23:47, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-12-13T23:47:00.000Z","author":"Kim Dent-Brown","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kim_Dent-Brown-2007-12-13T23:47:00.000Z-Talk_page_for_all_templates_relating_to_this_topic","replies":[]}}-->
Hello everybody! I recently changed the title of "Paganism and Neopaganism" to simply "Paganism" because there is another template solely called "Neopaganism". This template does include a part about Neopaganism, but that is because "Neopaganism" is a part of "Paganism", and therefore I think that my edit was the better title, though what is the general concensus? I think that we need to discuss this first :) (Midnightblueowl (talk) 19:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC))[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-01-02T19:38:00.000Z","author":"Midnightblueowl","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Midnightblueowl-2008-01-02T19:38:00.000Z-Title_-_\"Paganism_and_Neopaganism\"_or_just_\"Paganism\"","replies":["c-Midnightblueowl-2008-01-09T16:38:00.000Z-Midnightblueowl-2008-01-02T19:38:00.000Z"]}}-->
apart from the fact that the template is now rather large and unwieldy, I think it is quite fair now. Maybe we can reduce it in size somewhat? For example, avoid linking the full spectrum of neopagan movements? Just the main currents should suffice for the purposes of this template. There is {{Neopaganism}} for increased resolution of this sub-topic. dab (𒁳) 15:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-03-15T15:06:00.000Z","author":"Dbachmann","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dbachmann-2008-03-15T15:06:00.000Z-Title_-_\"Paganism_and_Neopaganism\"_or_just_\"Paganism\"","replies":[],"displayName":"dab"}}-->
I don't think that Native American religions (Central or Northern) and Asian traditional religions (Hindu, Chinese, Shinto) are in the right place in this template, since they're not conventionally classified as "Pagan". --Jormunpherreik (talk) 12:29, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-04-30T12:29:00.000Z","author":"Jormunpherreik","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jormunpherreik-2012-04-30T12:29:00.000Z-Native_American_religions_and_generic_folk_religion","replies":["c-Uyvsdi-2014-02-15T17:45:00.000Z-Jormunpherreik-2012-04-30T12:29:00.000Z"]}}-->
This template partly covers contemporary Paganism, but there is already a {{Paganism topics (contemporary)}}. It seems to me that either the Neopagan movements section should be removed or {{Paganism topics (contemporary)}} should be merged hear.
I support merging because {{Paganism topics (contemporary)}} does not have much unique content and desisting topics in its scope does not make much sense either.—Sowlos (talk) 13:47, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-11-27T13:47:00.000Z","author":"Sowlos","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sowlos-2012-11-27T13:47:00.000Z-Merge?","replies":[]}}-->
This template includes what are generally considered to be non-pagan religions and has recently been added to a number of non-pagan religions. As this is a quite page, I've started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion. Dougweller (talk) 16:24, 15 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-02-15T16:24:00.000Z","author":"Dougweller","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dougweller-2014-02-15T16:24:00.000Z-Discussion_over_content","replies":[]}}-->
Paganism, close to the likes of heresy, is a very loaded term and defined from a Christian/Monotheistic POV. Proposal to change. 144.32.60.216 (talk) 20:39, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-06-07T20:39:00.000Z","author":"144.32.60.216","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-144.32.60.216-2014-06-07T20:39:00.000Z-Neutrality","replies":[]}}-->
The template is filled with religions that historically were never called "Paganism". Has this template still any sense under the title "Paganism"? Should not it be better to expand its scope to "Paganism, ethnic and indigenous religions"?--Eckhardt Etheling (talk) 05:51, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-06-10T05:51:00.000Z","author":"Eckhardt Etheling","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Eckhardt_Etheling-2018-06-10T05:51:00.000Z-The_template_now_covers_a_wide_range_of_different_topics","replies":["c-VerifiedCactus-2018-12-25T19:49:00.000Z-Eckhardt_Etheling-2018-06-10T05:51:00.000Z"]}}-->
Template documentation states: "Note: A general consensus has been agreed that this template should only be placed on articles that are about general Paganism, where more specific templates such as [the Neopaganism template] are not more appropriate. There are other templates on Modern Paganism and specific traditions. Do not add this template to Abrahamic or Indigenous religions that are not considered Pagan." So it only follows that the template should not have a section that lists Indigenous cultures and their lifeways. I have removed the Native American / Indigenous section. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 21:09, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-05-15T21:09:00.000Z","author":"CorbieVreccan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-CorbieVreccan-2021-05-15T21:09:00.000Z-Per_template_documentation,_this_doesn't_include_Indigenous_lifeways","replies":["c-CorbieVreccan-2021-05-15T21:57:00.000Z-CorbieVreccan-2021-05-15T21:09:00.000Z"]}}-->
Indigenous lifeways should not be included in a list of paganism. This is very much a disrespectful and condescending term characterizing Indigenous peoples of the past and present. --ARoseWolf 12:57, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-05-17T12:57:00.000Z","author":"Tsistunagiska","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tsistunagiska-2021-05-17T12:57:00.000Z-Per_template_documentation,_this_doesn't_include_Indigenous_lifeways","replies":["c-Tsistunagiska-2021-05-17T13:42:00.000Z-Tsistunagiska-2021-05-17T12:57:00.000Z"],"displayName":"ARose"}}-->
"We, Native Americans, we are different! All the rest of you - oh you're just filthy pagans, haha!"
As I said on your talk page, Captain, in all of your responses about this, you continually past-tense living cultures and their unbroken (not Pagan or Neopagan) lifeways, and argue from the position of your own opinions and interpretations, rather than Wikipedia policy. Your writing and editing shows that you do not understand these Indigenous lifeways well enough to overhaul the templates on which you have been reverted. You also don't seem to understand which articles are OK to put the template on. (For instance, some Yoruba-derived religions in the diaspora have been syncretized; but that's not the case with the original, Indigenous tradition in West Africa. If you don't know the difference, you shouldn't be editing these topics.) The other points you raise here also miss the central points editors have raised with you. There's no easy way to say this: You clearly don't understand the history or current reality of how these religions are classified, both in the communities themselves and here on WP. Again, you need a much more thorough understanding of the topic, and consensus before doing any more edits in these areas. - CorbieVreccan ☊ ☼ 18:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-05-18T18:30:00.000Z","author":"CorbieVreccan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-CorbieVreccan-2021-05-18T18:30:00.000Z-Per_template_documentation,_this_doesn't_include_Indigenous_lifeways","replies":["c-CaptainKaptain-2021-05-18T22:05:00.000Z-CorbieVreccan-2021-05-18T18:30:00.000Z"]}}-->
CorbieVreccan: This template has been turned into a "Template:Non-abrahamic religions" in an attempt to turn the term "Paganism" into a catch-all synonym of "non-Abrahamic religions", while its standard use is restricted to European and Middle Eastern pre-Abrahamic religions. Native American religions, native African religions, Hinduism, East Asian religions, and native Oceanian religions are not Paganism.--37.163.185.160 (talk) 21:39, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-08-08T21:39:00.000Z","author":"37.163.185.160","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-37.163.185.160-2021-08-08T21:39:00.000Z-Per_template_documentation,_this_doesn't_include_Indigenous_lifeways","replies":[]}}-->
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