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A state secretary has been responsible for Kingdom Relations for the last cabinets. Shouldn't we include them instead of the formal minister? Dajasj (talk) 13:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240710130400","author":"Dajasj","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dajasj-20240710130400-State_secretary","replies":["c-Tristan_Surtel-20240710193500-Dajasj-20240710130400"]}}-->

I suppose the name of the template/header would have to be changed then, to not give the impression that these state secretaries bore the title of minister. But I am not sure what this template currently is doing exactly. I am realizing now that something similar seems to go wrong concerning List of ministers of the interior of the Netherlands and List of ministers of kingdom relations of the Netherlands, which both claim to concern the leaders of the same ministry despite being separate articles. - Tristan Surtel (talk) 19:35, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240710193500","author":"Tristan Surtel","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tristan_Surtel-20240710193500-Dajasj-20240710130400","replies":["c-Dajasj-20240711210100-Tristan_Surtel-20240710193500"]}}-->

Something like "Cabinet members of the Netherlands responsible for Kingdom Relations"? But not ideal.

More generally, the lists are a mess because ministries change all the time, including responsibilities. (Although I am grateful you have been changing them). I have been thinking about simply creating one list with "Cabinet members of the Netherlands", but not sure whether that's accepted. Dajasj (talk) 21:01, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240711210100","author":"Dajasj","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dajasj-20240711210100-Tristan_Surtel-20240710193500","replies":["c-Tristan_Surtel-20240715181400-Dajasj-20240711210100"]}}-->

Having gone through many of them by now, I definitely am not completely content with the organization of some of these minister lists. However, I do believe it is useful to group direct successors together, and I am worried a single list would get very long (even if pictures and details are removed). One partial example that exists currently is Minister without Portfolio (Netherlands). - Tristan Surtel (talk) 18:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240715181400","author":"Tristan Surtel","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Tristan_Surtel-20240715181400-Dajasj-20240711210100","replies":["c-Dajasj-20240715184800-Tristan_Surtel-20240715181400"]}}-->

I'm a great opponent of details and images in lists ;) But yeah, ~650 ministers will be too long for a list.. Dajasj (talk) 18:48, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240715184800","author":"Dajasj","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Dajasj-20240715184800-Tristan_Surtel-20240715181400","replies":[]}}-->