Added a small lead section using content from the main article. Sanpitch (talk) 06:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-02-26T06:40:00.000Z","author":"Sanpitch","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sanpitch-2011-02-26T06:40:00.000Z-Lead_Section","replies":[]}}-->
"The people who dont love me dont deserve to live" is a misquote by the source in question. Apparently he said, "if the people dont love me, I dont deserve to live". Check out aljazeera. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.29.108.181 (talk) 18:29, 26 February 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-02-26T18:29:00.000Z","author":"80.29.108.181","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-80.29.108.181-2011-02-26T18:29:00.000Z-Gaddafi_quote_(Feb._25th)","replies":["c-75.70.45.40-2011-03-01T10:17:00.000Z-80.29.108.181-2011-02-26T18:29:00.000Z"]}}-->
The current version says on February 22, Younis "escaped from house arrest," but this is not supported by the given reference and is not mentioned in the article about Younis. When is this house arrest supposed to have begun? --LA2 (talk) 22:40, 4 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-04T22:40:00.000Z","author":"LA2","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-LA2-2011-03-04T22:40:00.000Z-House_arrest","replies":["c-LA2-2011-03-04T22:59:00.000Z-LA2-2011-03-04T22:40:00.000Z"]}}-->
I'm going to remove some of the citations from this site because they appear to just be a propaganda outlet for the anti-Gadhaffi fighters, along with libyafeb17.com [1] B-I-G and S-M-R-T!!1! (talk) 01:02, 17 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-17T01:02:00.000Z","author":"B-I-G and S-M-R-T!!1!","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-B-I-G_and_S-M-R-T!!1!-2011-03-17T01:02:00.000Z-Al_Manara_Media_et_al","replies":[]}}-->
Youtube and fast moving blog "updates" are not Reliable Sources; get past Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard before reinserting,please, because these sources have already been disallowed . I have removed some good faith March 18th content from youtube and blog updates; if there is more similar content, it should also be taken out, I think. If anyone wishes to challenge my opinion, please take it to the noticeboard (link above). Mr.Grantevans2 (talk) 21:12, 18 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-18T21:12:00.000Z","author":"Mr.grantevans2","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mr.grantevans2-2011-03-18T21:12:00.000Z-Youtube_and_blog_\"updates\"_are_not_Reliable_Sources","replies":[]}}-->
The content related to this well reported event keeps getting removed. This event helps provide a little bit of balance perhaps to the article and the Gaddafi side claims it shows a no-fly zone violation by the rebel side, thus it is quite notable. The photo of the plane falling has been shown on both CNN and CBC backdrops for a few days now so it is notable too. Mr.Grantevans2 (talk) 19:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-21T19:37:00.000Z","author":"Mr.grantevans2","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mr.grantevans2-2011-03-21T19:37:00.000Z-Rebel_Plane_shot_down","replies":[]}}-->
As of 19 March, out of Libya's twenty-two districts, twelve were under government control, seven were under rebel control and five were contested territories (see map).
Something is wrong with the above statement, which is there from the start of the article. 12 government districts + 7 rebel districts + 5 contested districts is 24 total districts, yet the article says twenty-two. So obviously something isnt right there.Ratipok (talk) 07:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-22T07:30:00.000Z","author":"Ratipok","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ratipok-2011-03-22T07:30:00.000Z-Libya_districts","replies":["c-Nightstallion-2011-03-23T09:30:00.000Z-Ratipok-2011-03-22T07:30:00.000Z"]}}-->
I believe we should remove the Prose-tag as calls for a complete overhaul of the article and the more because it would result in a text and not a facts list (the latter being a timeline in essence). - AlwaysUnite (talk) 14:12, 27 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-27T14:12:00.000Z","author":"AlwaysUnite","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AlwaysUnite-2011-03-27T14:12:00.000Z-Prose_tag_remove_or_apply?","replies":[]}}-->
I don't know if you guys have noticed, but there's a lot of days in a month. Like, more than 30 in some cases. In any case, that's a lot of subheadings to fit under one heading and makes the ToC at the top a bit crowded. Should we maybe reformat this into, say, "1. Before the First Battle of Benghazi" or "Initial Protests", "2. Rebel Takeover of Cities" or "Fighting begins", "3. The First Rebel Offensive", "4. The Gaddafi Offensive" (or first Gaddafi offensive if more arise), and "5. The UN No-Fly Zone and the Second Rebel Offensive"?
First of all, that makes more sense in terms of the uprising (or war, or whatever term you prefer); and second of all it helps keep chunks a little smaller and the table of contents a little easier on the eyes. 140.247.147.170 (talk) 00:54, 28 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-28T00:54:00.000Z","author":"140.247.147.170","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-140.247.147.170-2011-03-28T00:54:00.000Z-New_organization?","replies":["c-Anthony_Appleyard-2011-03-29T13:06:00.000Z-140.247.147.170-2011-03-28T00:54:00.000Z","c-140.247.12.151-2011-03-29T16:31:00.000Z-140.247.147.170-2011-03-28T00:54:00.000Z","c-96.232.126.111-2011-04-01T19:22:00.000Z-140.247.147.170-2011-03-28T00:54:00.000Z"]}}-->
as one can see, the article is presently 185,000+ KB. it's only going to get longer because (1) the end of this protest/uprising/conflict/civilwar/revolution, etc. doesn't seem imminent and (2) citations are only about 1/3 flushed out (i.e, bearing core ingredients of "date", "author", "title", "publisher" and "accessdate").
thus, it's (past) time to start planning on forking/splitting the lengthy timeline. i'm sure there are ideas and/or precedent from similar articles (afghan war or iraq war perhaps?).--96.232.126.111 (talk) 06:06, 31 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-31T06:06:00.000Z","author":"96.232.126.111","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-96.232.126.111-2011-03-31T06:06:00.000Z-article_length","replies":[]}}-->
Thanks to whoever took the time to reorganize! Looks great! 140.247.245.246 (talk) 15:23, 31 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-31T15:23:00.000Z","author":"140.247.245.246","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-140.247.245.246-2011-03-31T15:23:00.000Z-article_length","replies":["c-Swalgal-2011-04-04T20:31:00.000Z-140.247.245.246-2011-03-31T15:23:00.000Z"]}}-->
I have reverted a split-off of the first month of the conflict by User:Spesh531
I do not really object the splitting idea itself, but the naming convention used and ignoring the talk page. AFAIK TNC was not even on the drawing board on 15th February, so naming the whole period as Beginnings of the Transitional National Council or Beginnings of the National Transitional Council is not appropriate.
To be clear, if TNC was being planned already on 15th February (which is possible), it would actually affirm Gaddafi's notion of a islamist-western conspiracy.
I did not revert the newly-created split pages yet and hope Spesh531 comes here to substantiate the naming convention he used. Otherwise I will change the created articles into redirects to the TNC article. Someone can pick them up later and do a proper article. Ihosama (talk) 20:15, 16 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-16T20:15:00.000Z","author":"Ihosama","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ihosama-2011-04-16T20:15:00.000Z-Split_attempt_by_Spesh531","replies":["c-Ihosama-2011-04-17T16:13:00.000Z-Ihosama-2011-04-16T20:15:00.000Z"]}}-->
Is this really a low importance article in the project scale of Africa and Politics? I cannot imagine what the mid-importance borderline can be, if it's stuck in low category. Lajbi Holla @ me • CP 10:19, 29 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-29T10:19:00.000Z","author":"Lajbi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Lajbi-2011-03-29T10:19:00.000Z-Low_importance_Done","replies":["c-96.232.126.111-2011-03-29T21:43:00.000Z-Lajbi-2011-03-29T10:19:00.000Z"]}}-->
Timeline of the 2011 Libyan uprising → Timeline of the 2011 Libyan civil war — main article has been moved from 2011 Libyan uprising to 2011 Libyan civil war. --93.136.42.181 (talk) 11:22, 30 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-30T11:22:00.000Z","author":"93.136.42.181","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-93.136.42.181-2011-03-30T11:22:00.000Z-Proposed_move_-_Timeline_of_the_2011_Libyan_civil_war_Done","replies":[]}}-->
Moved per the main article. There's no point in having repeat discussions all over the place. Timrollpickering (talk) 14:59, 30 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-30T14:59:00.000Z","author":"Timrollpickering","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Timrollpickering-2011-03-30T14:59:00.000Z-Proposed_move_-_Timeline_of_the_2011_Libyan_civil_war_Done","replies":[]}}-->
This edit (just earlier today) removed a map. if i understand the corresponding edit summary – "rm pic updated beyond mar. 28" – correctly, it indicates that map detail illustrates situation as of a date after march 28". all fine and good.
however, it reminds one, that an encylopedia is not just "most recent/current" or a "news" source and it would be helpful to a reader to have some historical maps illustrating the situation's evolvement over time. one for each date would seem overkill, of course, but one at critical stages of change would seem appropriate.
i'm sure other editors have opinions/ideas.--96.232.126.111 (talk) 18:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-30T18:15:00.000Z","author":"96.232.126.111","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-96.232.126.111-2011-03-30T18:15:00.000Z-Historical_maps","replies":[]}}-->
well, this page is a kind of dump of raw information anyway. It isn't a proper encyclopedia article. Strictly, it should be in Wikipedia: namespace, as an aggregate for information collected for writing the main article. But if people find it useful in main namespace, why not keep it here.
This article can be straightened out once this ceases to be an ongoing day-by-day effort. It will need to recover historical revisions of the map images under separate filenames so the various stages of the conflict can be illustrated. This could already be done today, e.g. create a map showing the peak of the first rebel offensive, another showing the first Gaddafi counteroffensive, and so on.
But the live "Gulf of Sirt Front.svg" map of course cannot be left under any specific date, as it will continue to be updated. If you want to keep a specific revision around, restore it under a separate title, such as "Gulf of Sirt Front 28 March.svg". --dab (𒁳) 14:58, 31 March 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-03-31T14:58:00.000Z","author":"Dbachmann","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dbachmann-2011-03-31T14:58:00.000Z-Historical_maps","replies":[],"displayName":"dab"}}-->
"Defected to the libyan decent nation" - that kind of wording doesn't belong in here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.181.207.90 (talk) 15:50, 2 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-02T15:50:00.000Z","author":"189.181.207.90","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-189.181.207.90-2011-04-02T15:50:00.000Z-April_2nd","replies":[]}}-->
I would like to hear opinion on renaming these two headings into
I am all for c) any objections?Ihosama (talk) 14:40, 4 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-04T14:40:00.000Z","author":"Ihosama","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ihosama-2011-04-04T14:40:00.000Z-Rename_(Second)_'Gaddafi'_counteroffensive","replies":["c-Swalgal-2011-04-04T20:34:00.000Z-Ihosama-2011-04-04T14:40:00.000Z"]}}-->
Renamed. Also renamed the rebel actions to better fit the reality on the ground and existing article convention.Ihosama (talk) 11:50, 5 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-05T11:50:00.000Z","author":"Ihosama","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ihosama-2011-04-05T11:50:00.000Z-Rename_(Second)_'Gaddafi'_counteroffensive","replies":[]}}-->
Does 'government' or 'loyalist' refer to someone who is loyal to the Gaddafi government, or someone who is loyal to the Benghazi government?
By this point, anyone in Gaddafi's military who is not pro-Gaddafi has either defected or been executed by their more fanatical commanders.
Sand buzzard (talk) 21:49, 5 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-05T21:49:00.000Z","author":"Sand buzzard","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sand_buzzard-2011-04-05T21:49:00.000Z-Rename_(Second)_'Gaddafi'_counteroffensive","replies":["c-Ihosama-2011-04-06T01:24:00.000Z-Sand_buzzard-2011-04-05T21:49:00.000Z"]}}-->
I think this article has neutrality issues. Not that I am choosing sides, but this article is full of bias towards the Rebels. For instance, this link from AP about "snipers targeting childrens in Misrata" is one of the issues. The article has no proof about the alleged shootings/killings of children ([link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110408/ap_on_re_eu/un_un_libya_besieged_city]) , yet it is included in the article without question. Why not, then, include reports from Libyan StateTV then? Just to be safe that we are still on the neutral side in this encyclopedia, offcourse. Oh wait, Libyan TV is branded as unreliable propaganda machine as they are writting stories without proof. But, wait, what proof is there for the story in the link above? Reliable and consistent reports from unnamed local sources said something to UNICEF, LOL. What and who are those sources? Maybe the Rebels who are fighting against Loyalists troops in Misrata and would say just about anything so NATO would help them with airstrikes?
The last story is just one of many that is included in the article and is biased towards one side. Wiki is an encyclopedia not a tabloid. Ratipok (talk) 18:38, 8 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-08T18:38:00.000Z","author":"Ratipok","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ratipok-2011-04-08T18:38:00.000Z-Neutrality_disputed","replies":["c-Daniel.Cardenas-2011-04-08T18:43:00.000Z-Ratipok-2011-04-08T18:38:00.000Z","c-Daniel.Cardenas-2011-04-08T19:02:00.000Z-Ratipok-2011-04-08T18:38:00.000Z"]}}-->
The truth is important. Being "neutral" and not labeling a murderer a murderer is a lie. Labeling freedom fighters is the truth, and labeling them rebels as someone who is breaking the law is a lie, far from the truth. Daniel.Cardenas (talk) 02:48, 16 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-16T02:48:00.000Z","author":"Daniel.Cardenas","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Daniel.Cardenas-2011-04-16T02:48:00.000Z-Neutrality_disputed","replies":["c-Grandiose-2011-04-16T09:55:00.000Z-Daniel.Cardenas-2011-04-16T02:48:00.000Z"]}}-->
I vote for this article to be deleted! Clearly this is not a Wiki article but a propaganda for the Rebels and the West. Yesterday I saw a report, that someone has added in the article, about confirmed 7 civilians dead and others injured in NATO bombing in Tripoli. Now I see that someone deleted the report despite the fact, that it was referenced and in English language.Ratipok (talk) 21:11, 21 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-21T21:11:00.000Z","author":"Ratipok","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ratipok-2011-04-21T21:11:00.000Z-Neutrality_disputed","replies":["c-Lothar_von_Richthofen-2011-04-23T19:13:00.000Z-Ratipok-2011-04-21T21:11:00.000Z"]}}-->
I think it will help if we point to changes that should be made, article is clearly a fiction at this moment. "Fifty loyal mercenaries and two Libyan conspirators were executed by protesters in Al Bayda. Other conspirators were killed in Derna after protesters captured them, locked them up in a prison, and then burned it down." In Al Bayda HRW found no single mercenary but Libyan black soldiers among those 156 claimed, so we must re-qualify it to soldiers executed. Dernah, was there a trail to call those executed conspirators? Conspirators against what? So please change it. To Libyan security forces in first case and people executed by rebels in second case. http://www.rnw.nl/africa/article/hrw-no-mercenaries-eastern-libya-0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.46.38.209 (talk) 21:10, 17 May 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-17T21:10:00.000Z","author":"90.46.38.209","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-90.46.38.209-2011-05-17T21:10:00.000Z-Neutrality_disputed","replies":["c-JoergenB-2011-05-19T10:35:00.000Z-90.46.38.209-2011-05-17T21:10:00.000Z"]}}-->
IMHO, the way some of the images are treated is more suitable for a wikinews article than for an encyclopædic one. This article is supposed to describe the timeline of the conflict, not just the most recent situation. Hence, maps showing older "front lines" or cities controlled by the two parties are as interesting as the most recent one.
As it is now, maps of older situations are replaced by more "up to date" ones, as if these were the only interesting ones. Instead, we should present several maps, with either the "most typical" situation for a period, or "the most extreme" one. The extreme positions are suitable for indicating the furthest extension of an offensive for either side.
This would make the article containing more maps than now (as classical encyclopædic war phase articles use to do). There might be an alternative: a series of overlayered maps, on a (more or less) day-to-day basis, accessible at the same article position, and with some means for the viewers to click themselves forward or backwards in in the sequence of maps (without affecting the rest of the article). I do not know if wp has any software supporting such "interactively dynamic imageing". Does anyone else know? JoergenB (talk) 17:54, 14 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-14T17:54:00.000Z","author":"JoergenB","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JoergenB-2011-04-14T17:54:00.000Z-\"Recentist\"_handling_of_images.","replies":["c-96.232.126.111-2011-04-16T17:16:00.000Z-JoergenB-2011-04-14T17:54:00.000Z"]}}-->
.
I think a new section is need for the stage from the 11th of April till now of something like Stalemate in the east this present front section has been going long enough for it to be changed. Hooah82 (talk) 18:11, 18 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-18T18:11:00.000Z","author":"Hooah82","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hooah82-2011-04-18T18:11:00.000Z-New_Section","replies":[]}}-->
I think we can't hide the information of the media state from Libya. If we believe that a source is not reliable, we should state "according to..." etc. But we should not delete information, let the reader know that that day the Jana news agency reported a bombing in the capital.
Also, there are some serious site that published it. Seven killed in NATO air raid in Libya: report (it describes several houses collapsed), and for example http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/21/us-libya-raid-idUSTRE73J6RH20110421 http://www.agi.it/english-version/world/elenco-notizie/201104210756-cro-ren1006-7_libyan_civilians_killed_by_nato_raid_south_of_tripoli
And, if you want independent source, those texts citing libya17feb as source are not an example of neutrality.--Andres arg (talk) 06:30, 21 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-21T06:30:00.000Z","author":"Andres arg","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Andres_arg-2011-04-21T06:30:00.000Z-Regarding_the_bombing_that_killed_7_in_Tripoli","replies":["c-Noclador-2011-04-21T07:02:00.000Z-Andres_arg-2011-04-21T06:30:00.000Z"]}}-->
Lets think for a second: what does Gadaffi want most? Dead civilians in a NATO airstrike! Do you think he would hesitate to show the bodies of them on TV??? Have we seen such bodies? Have we even heard names of civilians killed??? Obviously not - so whatever Libyan State TV says, as long as they don't show bodies or let reporters see such bodies (the Rixos is full of reporters, who would immediately file reports if they would see such bodies) we can assume that Libyan State TV only airs propaganda. As for your 3 sources above "Libya's state television said", "Libyan state television said", "Libyan state television reported". so as usual these claims are unverified and/or propaganda. As said if today a NATO airstrike killed 9 civilians the Libyan government would right now drive every journalist in the Rixos to the site and show them the bodies. But none of that is happening, so calm down and be happy that NATO until now has not killed any civilians but the ones in that village where they blew up the ammunition trailer. noclador (talk) 19:08, 22 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-22T19:08:00.000Z","author":"Noclador","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Noclador-2011-04-22T19:08:00.000Z-Regarding_the_bombing_that_killed_7_in_Tripoli","replies":["c-Andres_arg-2011-04-22T19:40:00.000Z-Noclador-2011-04-22T19:08:00.000Z"]}}-->
With the end of siege in Misrata and taking of border area in Tunisia, I believe the stalemate section is no longer the proper title to continue updating the timeline. I propose to divide information from the point where they were able to drive forces out of Misrata and take the Tunisian post as Rebel Gains.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 09:10, 23 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-23T09:10:00.000Z","author":"MyMoloboaccount","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MyMoloboaccount-2011-04-23T09:10:00.000Z-New_section_2","replies":["c-Lothar_von_Richthofen-2011-04-23T17:08:00.000Z-MyMoloboaccount-2011-04-23T09:10:00.000Z","c-92.52.55.29-2011-04-24T22:10:00.000Z-MyMoloboaccount-2011-04-23T09:10:00.000Z"]}}-->
Why is the pro-NATO site libya17feb.com allowed here (some tagged as "unreliable source?"), and any site (including BBC or Reuters) citing anything related to libian state media, or any site in the world that doesn't support the attack is deleted inmediatelly? And also, I would like an explanation (if there's any) on why it is not censure.
I think wikipedia is a site where people is responsible to let the reader have as many differents sources as possible to keep articles the most neutral possible, so hidding information is a severe right denied to the ones who enters to the article. I know it has a tag in the begin of the page, but our mision should be to solve this. So here's another question. If you admit this article is completely biased (I guess you admit because that tag has not been removed), then why you are not doing anything to solve this? (this question is directed to those who deleted sources that claimed that NATO killed civilians). What do you propose to have this article neutral?--Andres arg (talk) 04:04, 25 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-25T04:04:00.000Z","author":"Andres arg","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Andres_arg-2011-04-25T04:04:00.000Z-Some_questions","replies":["c-Lothar_von_Richthofen-2011-04-25T15:05:00.000Z-Andres_arg-2011-04-25T04:04:00.000Z"]}}-->
The article is overly long and does need a cleanup. For this reason, I've removed many unreliable references, such as those to libyafeb17.com and lesser reliable sites. This might be a questionable move, because "unreliable sites" often just repost from reliable sources, but notable information should be possible to verify with those reliable sources. There are also many dynamic links which are no longer preserved at the publisher's site, which to me suggest they either do not support that information or consider it transient and not notable. I also removed many hidden comments and useless links (like Italian language). Given the article size, please post lengthy comments at this talk page and avoid fancy formatting and templates (their transclusion does increase loading time, for example, non-templated references are preferred here). Materialscientist (talk) 06:55, 1 May 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-01T06:55:00.000Z","author":"Materialscientist","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Materialscientist-2011-05-01T06:55:00.000Z-Cleanup","replies":[]}}-->
Khaled Kaim does not have his own Wikipedia page. NATO, which enforces the no-fly zone claims it has been has been applying it to both sides but there is evidence of profound Bias, as well as crimes against unarmed civilians by the Western nations. On Saturday, fighting continued over the city, with fleeing civilians reporting both sides shelling each other while the real culprits might be sitting laughing in a secure, undisclosed location like the KFC Yum! Center in Kentucky. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.103.132.150 (talk) 13:35, 3 May 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-03T13:35:00.000Z","author":"95.103.132.150","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-95.103.132.150-2011-05-03T13:35:00.000Z-Khaled_Kaim","replies":[]}}-->
Bellow is the statement that was added in the article, and stayed there for couple of days until I've deleted it, that was simply made up by someone and was not referenced at all. In fact, to cover everything up someone has simply added one reference that doesnt even exist and the other that doesnt even mention the issue. I wonder how many statements like this are there in the whole article.
Ratipok (talk) 21:28, 3 May 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-03T21:28:00.000Z","author":"Ratipok","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ratipok-2011-05-03T21:28:00.000Z-People_are_making_things_up","replies":[]}}-->
That statement is a quote that you can find in Al-Jazeera's article about Saif's death. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/2011430224755721620.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.181.28.132 (talk) 20:15, 5 May 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-05T20:15:00.000Z","author":"189.181.28.132","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-189.181.28.132-2011-05-05T20:15:00.000Z-People_are_making_things_up","replies":["c-Ratipok-2011-05-05T21:57:00.000Z-189.181.28.132-2011-05-05T20:15:00.000Z"]}}-->
There have been no updates since three days ago. Surely some things have happened since? (LAz17 (talk) 15:46, 5 May 2011 (UTC)).__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-05T15:46:00.000Z","author":"LAz17","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-LAz17-2011-05-05T15:46:00.000Z-lack_up_updates","replies":["c-Mecanismo-2011-05-06T16:22:00.000Z-LAz17-2011-05-05T15:46:00.000Z","c-Mecanismo-2011-05-07T11:16:00.000Z-LAz17-2011-05-05T15:46:00.000Z","c-Mecanismo-2011-05-07T11:07:00.000Z-LAz17-2011-05-05T15:46:00.000Z","c-Mecanismo-2011-05-07T11:24:00.000Z-LAz17-2011-05-05T15:46:00.000Z","c-LAz17-2011-05-09T23:24:00.000Z-LAz17-2011-05-05T15:46:00.000Z"]}}-->
Should NATO's bombings be included in this timeline? I have not included them when I update, but I dunno, maybe there is some sense in that. (LAz17 (talk) 15:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC)).__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-10T15:15:00.000Z","author":"LAz17","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-LAz17-2011-05-10T15:15:00.000Z-NATO","replies":["c-JoergenB-2011-05-14T13:39:00.000Z-LAz17-2011-05-10T15:15:00.000Z"]}}-->
www.reuters.com/article2011/2011/...
The last four reuters links contain /article2011/2011/, these links show Page Not Found messages, I assume that it should be /article/2011/, without the duplicate "2011" I get to the correct pages. Also previous reuters-links contain /article/2011/ instead of /article2011/2011/
If I'm right, could someone change that, please?--YoungWee (talk) 11:30, 20 May 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-20T11:30:00.000Z","author":"YoungWee","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-YoungWee-2011-05-20T11:30:00.000Z-References,_last_four_reuters.com_links","replies":["c-Cthugha-2011-05-24T01:28:00.000Z-YoungWee-2011-05-20T11:30:00.000Z"]}}-->
The addresses are copy-pasted in their entirety. Maybe URLs changed since these references were posted? I will relocate the articles and update the URLs, and post here if I found out what happened. best, Kevinman4404 (talk) 02:00, 24 May 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-24T02:00:00.000Z","author":"Kevinman4404","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kevinman4404-2011-05-24T02:00:00.000Z-References,_last_four_reuters.com_links","replies":[]}}-->
OK, they are all fixed. I don't know how that happened. Weird!Kevinman4404 (talk) 02:31, 24 May 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-24T02:31:00.000Z","author":"Kevinman4404","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kevinman4404-2011-05-24T02:31:00.000Z-References,_last_four_reuters.com_links","replies":[]}}-->
There is a bullet in the 17 May section that is unsourced in that the source has been moved or deleted. If someone could please find the proper source, or delete that bullet, it would make the wiki better. Cthugha (talk) 01:24, 24 May 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-05-24T01:24:00.000Z","author":"Cthugha","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cthugha-2011-05-24T01:24:00.000Z-17_May_Tunisia_Fire","replies":["c-Cthugha-2011-05-24T01:30:00.000Z-Cthugha-2011-05-24T01:24:00.000Z"]}}-->
Hi, I'm just curious if the Al-Jazeera live Libya blog meets wikipeda criteria. On the one hand it is a blog, on the other, it is part of Al-Jazeera, so must have some credibility. Also, most of the articles are not in-line with the stance taken by the main Al-Jazeera articles. Since it is continuous blogging from ground staff embroiled in what is going on, they obviously have far more ability to report on the rebel situation- they obviously have little to do with the loyalists. Wouldn't this present an element of bias? If there is, there isn't much that can be done now, but maybe we can filter future edits. We could instead take articles from the main Al-Jazeera articles.
Here is an example of an edit I culled at one point: "Officials say a car bomb in the opposition stronghold of Benghazi has slightly injured two people. The blast caused hundreds of men, many carrying weapons, to come out onto the street and climb on top of the twisted wreckage of the car to yell slogans against Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader. Nasser Warfuli, a local journalist, identified the car as a white Chevrolet, and said it exploded just before evening prayers.[415]" 415.^ a b Libya Live Blog | Al Jazeera Blogs. Blogs.aljazeera.net (2011-05-09). Retrieved on 2011-05-14.
Clearly this is not in line with the majority of content entered into this wikipedia article, and hopefully it illustrates my point that Al-Jazeera Libya Live Blog is maybe not a sufficiently good source for additions to this article.
Kevinman4404 (talk) 07:11, 6 June 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-06-06T07:11:00.000Z","author":"Kevinman4404","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kevinman4404-2011-06-06T07:11:00.000Z-Al_Jazeera_Live_Blog","replies":[]}}-->
I just spend a lot of time adjusting grammatical errors and poorly constructed statements, adding proper references, formatting references properly, including and excluding wikilinks where appropriate, and added information in general. Sticking a 'url tag' at the end of a statement is the absolute laziest way of referencing your material and simply means I have to spend my time fixing your laziness rather than improving the overall quality of the article or finding additional information. Also, be aware that when you use news sites, a lot of them simply copy 90% off the first person who reported it. That's why it is best to use sites like Al Jazeera and Reuters for your sources as ABC or NBC or whomever is simply parroting them. Also, if NATO or the U.N. releases a statement, don't necessarily use the news article...just use the actual press release and reference it properly. I'll be looking over this page periodically now and attempting to clean it up. I'd appreciate anyone's help in doing so - there are hundreds of unsourced, improperly sourced, or lazily sourced citations that I need to worth through.
Daniel Musto (talk) 03:05, 7 June 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-06-07T03:05:00.000Z","author":"Daniel Musto","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Daniel_Musto-2011-06-07T03:05:00.000Z-Updates,_quality_of_information,_quality_of_writing,_and_references","replies":[]}}-->
I think we trim down the amount of citations or put them in a "menu" where you have option to show/hide them. It would make the page a lot shorter. Everytime I want to go to the bottom of the page I do not need to scroll through 500+ citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.215.82.73 (talk) 19:47, 22 June 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-06-22T19:47:00.000Z","author":"74.215.82.73","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-74.215.82.73-2011-06-22T19:47:00.000Z-References\/Citations","replies":[]}}-->
Apparently they have the information that France government is arming the rebels at in Western Libya (Nafusa range). I am not fluent in French though, so I dont want to add anything to the article myself, but considering what sources are constantly being used in the article I se no reason why this wouldnt be used as well.
Source: French: [2] Slovene: [3]
If the information is true then France is violating the UN resolution for the arms embargo on Libya. Ratipok (talk) 12:32, 29 June 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-06-29T12:32:00.000Z","author":"Ratipok","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ratipok-2011-06-29T12:32:00.000Z-Le_Figaro_reports_that_the_French_Government_is_arming_the_rebels","replies":["c-Noclador-2011-06-29T16:45:00.000Z-Ratipok-2011-06-29T12:32:00.000Z"]}}-->
anyone who thinks that this Lizzie Phelan is a WP:RS have a look at her ultra-biased wordpress page [4]. More POV is not possible! noclador (talk) 20:19, 2 July 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-07-02T20:19:00.000Z","author":"Noclador","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Noclador-2011-07-02T20:19:00.000Z-Lizzie_Phelan","replies":["c-Ratipok-2011-07-03T14:18:00.000Z-Noclador-2011-07-02T20:19:00.000Z"]}}-->
I don't know of any protests, on any issue, anywhere, ever....featuring 1 million people. In this case it would require the entire population of the city, including those who've fled, & who're too old/young/sick to walk, & who took part in anti-Gad protests. It is utter bollocks.92.16.103.240 (talk) 10:49, 3 July 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-07-03T10:49:00.000Z","author":"92.16.103.240","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-92.16.103.240-2011-07-03T10:49:00.000Z-1_million_people","replies":["c-StopWarCrimes-2011-07-03T14:00:00.000Z-92.16.103.240-2011-07-03T10:49:00.000Z"]}}-->
I vote this article to become at least semi-protected so only autoconfirmed users could contribute and edit the article, since there are plenty of unregistrated ones that are doing no more than vandalism in recent weeks.Ratipok (talk) 16:37, 3 July 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-07-03T16:37:00.000Z","author":"Ratipok","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ratipok-2011-07-03T16:37:00.000Z-This_article_needs_to_be_protected","replies":["c-92.16.103.240-2011-07-03T20:12:00.000Z-Ratipok-2011-07-03T16:37:00.000Z"]}}-->
The old format was fine. I want July 4th and 5th news. Please turn back on wiki people. Don't cut it down I want all the details! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.66.195.117 (talk) 14:24, 5 July 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-07-05T14:24:00.000Z","author":"97.66.195.117","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-97.66.195.117-2011-07-05T14:24:00.000Z-Libya_war_page","replies":[]}}-->
There you have it. Keep in mind that you need a strong stomach if you want to view the videos. Link Here, Lets see on how long this will stand without getting deleted.Ratipok (talk) 11:20, 14 July 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-07-14T11:20:00.000Z","author":"Ratipok","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ratipok-2011-07-14T11:20:00.000Z-Graphic_and_horrific_scenes_of_violence_committed_by_Libyan_rebels","replies":["c-Noclador-2011-07-14T15:31:00.000Z-Ratipok-2011-07-14T11:20:00.000Z"]}}-->
Your source didn't have a direct link, but I've just seen the source where the rebels said they retreated from Brega.
Also, please talk about edits to this discussion page and not edit my user page. Thanks. Raistuumum (talk) 21:34, 15 July 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-07-15T21:34:00.000Z","author":"Raistuumum","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Raistuumum-2011-07-15T21:34:00.000Z-To_Kevinman4404:","replies":[]}}-->
As of today july 16th the Free Forces have attacked brega and have taken over 80% of the city. www.libyafeb17.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.253.95.108 (talk) 16:11, 16 July 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-07-16T16:11:00.000Z","author":"98.253.95.108","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-98.253.95.108-2011-07-16T16:11:00.000Z-New_Updates.","replies":[]}}-->
I assume/suggest we use Libya time for dates, at least for events taking place within Libya. 92.16.137.222 (talk) 21:07, 24 July 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-07-24T21:07:00.000Z","author":"92.16.137.222","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-92.16.137.222-2011-07-24T21:07:00.000Z-Timezones","replies":[]}}-->
Hey have people figured out which town is Zintan and which is Zlitan so that we report on the proper city and what is actually happening there? See: Libya: The mainstream media invent new map of Libya ... a closer look! --Radical Mallard (talk) 20:59, 5 August 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-08-05T20:59:00.000Z","author":"Radical Mallard","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Radical_Mallard-2011-08-05T20:59:00.000Z-Stop_the_Presses:_Zintan_vs._Zlitan","replies":["c-Kudzu1-2011-08-05T21:05:00.000Z-Radical_Mallard-2011-08-05T20:59:00.000Z"]}}-->
Just echoing what I'm about to write in a few other discussion threads, but could we create some additional pages for the different battles? Particular the Nafusa mountains campaign, while not over (Tiji, Al Josh etc) has now clearly expanded beyond the mountains, and perhaps "Western talk:Tripolitanian campaign" would be a good addition, along with perhaps a page for the battle of Tawurgha which started and finished yesterday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grant bud (talk • contribs) 20:59, 12 August 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-08-12T20:59:00.000Z","author":"Grant bud","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Grant_bud-2011-08-12T20:59:00.000Z-Request_for_more_pages","replies":[]}}-->
aljazeera3
aljazeera1
У этого термина существуют и другие значения, см. 6-й кавалерийский корпус. 6-й гвардейский кавалерийский ордена Суворова корпус (6 гв. кк) Вооружённые силы ВС СССР Вид вооружённых сил сухопутные Род войск (сил) кавалерия Формирование 19.01.1943 года Награды Преемственность Предш…
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La Herradura Localidad poblada La Herradura vista desde el Mirador de los Navegantes (sector de la Pampilla de Coquimbo). Coordenadas 29°59′12″S 71°21′36″O / -29.986638888889, -71.36Entidad Localidad poblada • País Chile • Región Coquimbo • Provincia Elqui • Comuna Coquimbo[editar datos en Wikidata] La Herradura es una localidad chilena ubicada en la costa de la comuna de Coquimbo, ubicada en la Bahía de La Herradura de Guayacán…
SpittelauLokasiAlsergrundWinaAustriaJalur (interchange)Operasi layanan Stasiun sebelumnya U-Bahn Wina Stasiun berikutnya Friedensbrückemenuju Hütteldorf Jalur U4HeiligenstadtTerminus Jägerstraßemenuju Floridsdorf Jalur U6Nußdorfer Straßemenuju Siebenhirten Sunting kotak info • L • BBantuan penggunaan templat ini Spittelau adalah stasiun metro yang terletak di Jalur U4 dan Jalur U6 pada U-Bahn Wina.[1][2] Stasiun ini terletak di distrik Alsergrund…
Освальдо Арділес Освальдо Арділес Особисті дані Повне ім'я Освальдо Карлос Сесар Арділес Народження 3 серпня 1952(1952-08-03)[1][2][3] (71 рік) Бель-Вілльd, Кордова, Аргентина Зріст 169 см Вага 62 кг Громадянство Аргентина Позиція півзахисник Професіональні клуби* Р…
United Nations General Assembly resolution adopted in 1949 Convention for the Suppression of the Traffic in Persons and of the Exploitation of the Prostitution of OthersStates parties and signatories of the convention. States parties in dark blue. State signatories in light blueDrafted2 December 1949 (approval by the UN General Assembly)Signed21 March 1950LocationLake Success, New YorkEffective25 July 1951[1]ConditionRatification by 2 statesSignatories25Parties82DepositaryUN Secretary-Ge…
This is a list of bus routes operated by Sacramento Regional Transit District. Regular routes Route number Route name Area served RT Light Rail station(s) Weekday service Saturday service Sunday/holiday service Additional info 1 Greenback Sunrise Mall, San Juan High School, Greenback San Juan Center, Creekside Center, American River College, Discovery Museum Watt/I-80 5 am – 10:30 pm 5:30 am – 9:30 pm 5:30 am – 9:30 pm Created in 1990 as part of the Beltline (…
The Avenging ConsciencePoster rilis teatrikalSutradara D. W. Griffith Produser D. W. Griffith Ditulis oleh D. W. Griffith BerdasarkanThe Tell-Tale Heart dan Annabel Leeoleh Edgar Allan PoePemeranHenry B. WalthallBlanche SweetSpottiswoode AitkenPenata musikS. L. RothapfelSinematograferG.W. BitzerPenyuntingJames SmithRose SmithPerusahaanproduksiMajestic Motion Picture CompanyDistributorMutual Film CorporationTanggal rilis 24 Maret 1914 (1914-03-24) Durasi78 menitNegara Amerika Serikat B…
Ini adalah nama Batak Toba, marganya adalah Sitanggang. Deddy Wilman Sahatua SitanggangKasiops Kasrem 061/Suryakencana Informasi pribadiLahir0 November 1975 (umur 48)IndonesiaAlma materAkademi Militer (1997)Karier militerPihak IndonesiaDinas/cabang TNI Angkatan DaratMasa dinas1997—sekarangPangkat KolonelNRP11970040451175SatuanInfanteriSunting kotak info • L • B Kolonel Inf. Deddy Wilman Sahatua Sitanggang, S.I.P. (lahir November 1975) adalah seorang perwira menenga…
Aleppo Citadel was the center of the Aleppan monarchs in the Middle Ages Aleppo Citadel Throne Hall, Built by the Mamluk Sultan of Aleppo Sayf al-Din Jakam The monarchs of Aleppo reigned as kings, emirs and sultans of the city and its surrounding region since the later half of the 3rd millennium BC,[1] starting with the kings of Armi,[2] followed by the Amorite dynasty of Yamhad.[3] Muslim rule of the city ended with the Ayyubid dynasty which was ousted by the Mongol conq…
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