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Isnt the fleet still called the Royal Fleet (Kungliga flottan)? --Dahlis21:40, 14 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-09-14T21:40:00.000Z","author":"Dahlis","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dahlis-2005-09-14T21:40:00.000Z-Royal?","replies":["c-Faffia-2007-04-02T02:32:00.000Z-Dahlis-2005-09-14T21:40:00.000Z"]}}-->
True. But not in the official english translated name.
However, it's not political correct. So many departments/regiments/etc has suddenly removed the "Royal" prefix. Compare with Army regiments, such as Kungliga Skaraborgs Regemente P4, Kungliga Livregements Husarer K3. They are now called simply Skaraborgs Regemente, P4 and Livregementets Husarer, K3. The Royal prefix can be found in texts dating back just 10, 15 years. And at least on the P4 regimental flag, as far as I can remember.
--Faffia02:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-04-02T02:32:00.000Z","author":"Faffia","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Faffia-2007-04-02T02:32:00.000Z-Dahlis-2005-09-14T21:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
The name in Swedish is "Kunliga Flottan". The so called "official translations" are the work of one civil servant in the headquarters with poor knowledge about the Royal Swedish Navy and translations! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.169.141.54 (talk) 09:34, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-05-14T09:34:00.000Z","author":"195.169.141.54","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-195.169.141.54-2008-05-14T09:34:00.000Z-Royal?","replies":["c-Jao-2008-05-14T12:45:00.000Z-195.169.141.54-2008-05-14T09:34:00.000Z"]}}-->
Google Searching on both www.mil.se and www.marinen.mil.se I get exactly one hit for "kungliga flottan", which is from a journal entry – not very official! -- Jao (talk) 12:45, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-05-14T12:45:00.000Z","author":"Jao","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jao-2008-05-14T12:45:00.000Z-195.169.141.54-2008-05-14T09:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2009-07-22T10:33:00.000Z-Jao-2008-05-14T12:45:00.000Z"]}}-->
Returning to the issue of "Royal" or not, I can't see why the Swedish Navy is treated as more Royal than the Swedish Army and Swedish Airforce. The term Kungliga Flottan is not official, and has more of a ring of joking with elderly former reserve officers. And it is not just a matter of Kunglig... going out of use for many governmental Swedish activities in the 1970s (with notable exceptions in the academic field). With the creation of Försvarsmakten in 1993 (or was it 1994?) the three services lost their formal autonomy (which is why you have Inspectors-General rather than Heads of each service) which makes it very difficult to apply old labels to the organisation. So the mentioning of "Royal" should be restricted to noting that some people are still fond of the label. And there is a whole range of categories under Category:Royal Swedish Navy that need to be renamed. Tomas e (talk) 10:33, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-07-22T10:33:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2009-07-22T10:33:00.000Z-Jao-2008-05-14T12:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Rubbish. "Kungliga flottan" (the Royal Navy in Swedish) is w ay to distinguish it from Handelsflottan (The Merchant Marine i Swedish). Captellies on uniforms say "Kungliga flottan". Ships are labelled HMS etc. The problem is that in the armed forces army officers without knowledge dabble with issues they do not understand nor have the education to grasp. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.204.97.59 (talk) 18:54, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-11-14T18:54:00.000Z","author":"81.204.97.59","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-81.204.97.59-2011-11-14T18:54:00.000Z-Royal?","replies":[]}}-->
Why in the world are the Swedish ships on wikipedia prefixed with HMS? As far as I know that prefix is reserved for Royal Navy vessels. Shouldn't the correct term be HSMS?
Manxruler20:55, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-02T20:55:00.000Z","author":"Manxruler","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Manxruler-2006-12-02T20:55:00.000Z-HMS?","replies":["c-Johan_Elisson-2006-12-02T21:45:00.000Z-Manxruler-2006-12-02T20:55:00.000Z"]}}-->
How would HMS be "reserved" for Royal Navy ships? Swedish Navy ships do indeed have the prefix HMS, for Hans Majestäts Skepp (His Majesty's Ship) or Hennes Majestäts Skepp (Her Majesty's Ship). I've never ever seen anyone use HSMS as a prefix, so no, that wouldn't be the correct term. – Elisson • T • C • 21:45, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-02T21:45:00.000Z","author":"Johan Elisson","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Johan_Elisson-2006-12-02T21:45:00.000Z-Manxruler-2006-12-02T20:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Risottos-2006-12-03T01:37:00.000Z-Johan_Elisson-2006-12-02T21:45:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Elisson"}}-->
In the Swedish Navy all Navy ships have the prefix HMS. When Swedish Navy ships are cooperating with other navies they use the prefix HSwMS (His Swedish Majesty's Ship) in order to not be mistaken for Royal Navy ships.Risottos01:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-03T01:37:00.000Z","author":"Risottos","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Risottos-2006-12-03T01:37:00.000Z-Johan_Elisson-2006-12-02T21:45:00.000Z","replies":["c-Johan_Elisson-2006-12-03T01:55:00.000Z-Risottos-2006-12-03T01:37:00.000Z"]}}-->
Seems to be true, didn't know that. Either way, as long as it is made clear what navy the ship belongs to, there is, IMHO, no need to use HSwMS. – Elisson • T • C • 01:55, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-03T01:55:00.000Z","author":"Johan Elisson","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Johan_Elisson-2006-12-03T01:55:00.000Z-Risottos-2006-12-03T01:37:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Elisson"}}-->
"HMS" is obviosuly used in Swedish. Translated to English "HSwMs" is used! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.169.141.54 (talk) 09:32, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-05-14T09:32:00.000Z","author":"195.169.141.54","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-195.169.141.54-2008-05-14T09:32:00.000Z-HMS?","replies":[]}}-->
Still people seems to have problems with this. HMS is used in English as well - only the American and British navies use the "HSwMS" prefix. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.237.233.202 (talk) 15:15, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-06-09T15:15:00.000Z","author":"130.237.233.202","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-130.237.233.202-2009-06-09T15:15:00.000Z-HMS?","replies":["c-BritishWatcher-2009-07-09T17:33:00.000Z-130.237.233.202-2009-06-09T15:15:00.000Z"]}}-->
I have made a post on the SHIPS wikiproject about both this because there needs to be a clear policy on how to handle all Swedish naval vessels on the English wikipedia, at the moment theres atleast one article which lists things as HSwMS and just using HMS does lead to alot of confusion with the Royal Navy which can be easily avoided. Please see my full comment on this here . Thanks BritishWatcher (talk) 17:33, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-07-09T17:33:00.000Z","author":"BritishWatcher","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-BritishWatcher-2009-07-09T17:33:00.000Z-130.237.233.202-2009-06-09T15:15:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2009-07-10T18:25:00.000Z-BritishWatcher-2009-07-09T17:33:00.000Z"]}}-->
Yes, but there is absolutely no reason to invent a designation which is not official. Tomas e (talk) 18:25, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-07-10T18:25:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2009-07-10T18:25:00.000Z-BritishWatcher-2009-07-09T17:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Weakopedia-2010-07-07T22:12:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2009-07-10T18:25:00.000Z"]}}-->
Confusing... BritishWatcher links to a post he made at wikiproject ships.... only that post was made by Tomas e? Weakopedia (talk) 22:12, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-07T22:12:00.000Z","author":"Weakopedia","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Weakopedia-2010-07-07T22:12:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2009-07-10T18:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Tomas_e-2010-07-08T10:25:00.000Z-Weakopedia-2010-07-07T22:12:00.000Z"]}}-->
Well, the heading seems to be in the archive now, so the link needs updating. As I remember it, we strongly disagreed, so it's probably not my posting he wanted to refer to. :-) Perhaps this webpage, the Swedish Armed Forces' own English-language information on the Swedish Navy, shows the organisation's own use of names in English. The Navy as such is called "The Swedish Navy" without any "Royal" prefix, but the ships are called "HMS ..." - HMS Gävle and HMS Sundsvall are specifically mentioned. Tomas e (talk) 10:25, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-08T10:25:00.000Z","author":"Tomas e","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Tomas_e-2010-07-08T10:25:00.000Z-Weakopedia-2010-07-07T22:12:00.000Z","replies":["c-BritishWatcher-2010-07-08T10:48:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2010-07-08T10:25:00.000Z"]}}-->
Yes the section is now in the archive Here. There was no support for using a different term other than HMS for Swedish ships as only some countries like the UK and USA use that other term. It would be helpful if the Swedish navy chose a different prefix but aslong as HMS is used throughout the English language wikipedia (at the time i came across atleast one using the other term) theres not too big a problem. I guess in a way i should be glad, Sweden has some nice ships and some may mistakenly think they are British ;) BritishWatcher (talk) 10:48, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-08T10:48:00.000Z","author":"BritishWatcher","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-BritishWatcher-2010-07-08T10:48:00.000Z-Tomas_e-2010-07-08T10:25:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
The Manxman and Britishwatcher are obviously correct on this issue. "HSwMS" is used in correct English during international operations. Tomas is wrong both wrt to the Royal Swedish Navy and the correct use of prefix. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.204.97.59 (talk) 18:57, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-11-14T18:57:00.000Z","author":"81.204.97.59","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-81.204.97.59-2011-11-14T18:57:00.000Z-HMS?","replies":["c-Weakopedia-2010-07-08T11:06:00.000Z-81.204.97.59-2011-11-14T18:57:00.000Z","c-Varlaam-2012-07-05T05:37:00.000Z-81.204.97.59-2011-11-14T18:57:00.000Z","c-194.19.127.2-2022-01-20T12:35:00.000Z-81.204.97.59-2011-11-14T18:57:00.000Z"]}}-->
Got it - I was a year out. Cheers. Weakopedia (talk) 11:06, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-08T11:06:00.000Z","author":"Weakopedia","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Weakopedia-2010-07-08T11:06:00.000Z-81.204.97.59-2011-11-14T18:57:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
A Template:HSwMS template was recently created and should be retrofitted to this article, eliminating the confusing use of HMS. Varlaam (talk) 05:37, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-07-05T05:37:00.000Z","author":"Varlaam","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Varlaam-2012-07-05T05:37:00.000Z-81.204.97.59-2011-11-14T18:57:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
No, the Manxman and Britishwatcher are both wrong, and since their arguments are so weak (people may be confused - I mean really? Shall we rename Georgia as well?) it is tempting to see this as nationalist bias - especially considering the first comment which was assuming that HMS should somehow be "reserved" for UK vessels. "HSwMS" is indeed used by NATO or when the Swedish navy operates alongside NATO forces -the "source" used to claim HSwMS is the correct prefix is a NATO link. However, this is neither the NATO wiki nor the UK wiki, it's the English language wiki. The Swedish navy and other Swedish agencies - and authors on the subject of the Swedish navy - use "HMS" in English, which is the correct prefix. HSwMS has actually started to pop-up sometimes, but clearly due to journalists or others having read the English wikipedia... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.19.127.2 (talk) 12:35, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2022-01-20T12:35:00.000Z","author":"194.19.127.2","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-194.19.127.2-2022-01-20T12:35:00.000Z-81.204.97.59-2011-11-14T18:57:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: not moved. ArmbrustTheHomunculus12:42, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-04-25T12:42:00.000Z","author":"Armbrust","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Armbrust-2014-04-25T12:42:00.000Z-Requested_move","replies":[]}}-->
Swedish Navy → Royal Swedish Navy – The official name of the service is "Royal Swedish Navy", and is translated as such on the Swedish Armed Forces' offical site: [1]. It also appears to be a clear WP:COMMONNAME, as a gBooks search for "Royal Swedish Navy" less wikipedia etc. turns up 51,400 hits, while "Swedish Navy" adding -Royal gets 16,600 hits. The BushrangerOne ping only20:30, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-04-18T20:30:00.000Z","author":"The Bushranger","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_Bushranger-2014-04-18T20:30:00.000Z-Requested_move","replies":["c-\u00c4DA_-_D\u00c4P-2014-04-19T03:50:00.000Z-The_Bushranger-2014-04-18T20:30:00.000Z","c-Peter_Isotalo-2014-04-19T08:36:00.000Z-The_Bushranger-2014-04-18T20:30:00.000Z","c-Two_from_one-2014-04-22T00:50:00.000Z-The_Bushranger-2014-04-18T20:30:00.000Z","c-Arsenikk-2014-04-24T20:26:00.000Z-The_Bushranger-2014-04-18T20:30:00.000Z"]}}-->
Oppose While Sweden is still a monarchy, the name of its naval force is simply Marinen. On their English website, they use The Swedish Navy[2]. The term Royal Swedish Navy is mostly associated with the time of the Swedish Empire (cf. David Wragg (2012), The World Sea Power Club).
I can't corroborate the gBooks search results, though. I get plenty of hits for "the Swedish navy but only a handful for the Royal Swedish Navy. Keeping Royal Swedish Navy as a redirect should just do fine. ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 03:50, 19 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-04-19T03:50:00.000Z","author":"\u00c4DA - D\u00c4P","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-\u00c4DA_-_D\u00c4P-2014-04-19T03:50:00.000Z-The_Bushranger-2014-04-18T20:30:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u00c4DA - D\u00c4P VA"}}-->
Oppose The link cited above does not correspond to the homepage. As far as I can tell, they seem to have standardized it to just "Swedish Navy" by now, even if "Royal" has been used until recently. What's beyond doubt, though, is that they don't use "Kungliga" in Swedish. PeterIsotalo08:36, 19 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-04-19T08:36:00.000Z","author":"Peter Isotalo","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peter_Isotalo-2014-04-19T08:36:00.000Z-The_Bushranger-2014-04-18T20:30:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Peter"}}-->
Oppose. This looks like their English-language homepage to me. It says "The Swedish Navy" -- no "royal" anywhere on the page. Two from one (talk) 00:50, 22 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-04-22T00:50:00.000Z","author":"Two from one","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Two_from_one-2014-04-22T00:50:00.000Z-The_Bushranger-2014-04-18T20:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Oppose as evidence above shows, the current official designation is without "royal". If commonname is to apply, there needs to be overwhelming evidence, which needs to follow more solid methodology than employed by the nominator. Arsenikk(talk)20:26, 24 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-04-24T20:26:00.000Z","author":"Arsenikk","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Arsenikk-2014-04-24T20:26:00.000Z-The_Bushranger-2014-04-18T20:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Noclador-2016-10-11T17:39:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Structure_of_the_Swedish_Armed_Forces_in_1989-2016-10-11T17:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Noclador-2016-10-11T17:39:00.000Z-Structure_of_the_Swedish_Armed_Forces_in_1989"],"text":"Structure of the Swedish Armed Forces in 1989","linkableTitle":"Structure of the Swedish Armed Forces in 1989"}-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Noclador-2016-10-11T17:39:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Structure_of_the_Swedish_Armed_Forces_in_1989-2016-10-11T17:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Noclador-2016-10-11T17:39:00.000Z-Structure_of_the_Swedish_Armed_Forces_in_1989"],"text":"Structure of the Swedish Armed Forces in 1989","linkableTitle":"Structure of the Swedish Armed Forces in 1989"}-->
I created the article Structure of the Swedish Armed Forces in 1989, which contains a complete overview of the Swedish Armed Forces in 1989. The information comes from Arméhandboks of the army, from the Swedish wiki, and from government defense bills. As far as I can tell army and air force are complete and 100% correct. As for the navy: all in 1989 commissioned ships are listed, but some flotillas and divisions are missing. The coastal artillery is nearly complete, although there are some of the Spärrbataljon and Rörliga Spärrbataljon missing. Also missing for all three services are some of the schools. The Home Guard is missing as I could not find info on the ~85 battalions the Home Guard would field. Also missing are the designations/numbers/locations of the independent artillery, engineer, signal, air defense, etc. battalions that would be activated in war (except for the 3x Bandkanon 1 battalions of Milo ÖN). Even though these parts are missing, this is the most comprehensive/detailed/full listing of Swedish forces in 1989 ever.
However: if you have some more information, especially about the above mentioned stuff that is missing, please feel free to add this information to the article, or leave a message with the info on my talk page. Thank you, noclador (talk) 17:39, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-10-11T17:39:00.000Z","author":"Noclador","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Noclador-2016-10-11T17:39:00.000Z-Structure_of_the_Swedish_Armed_Forces_in_1989","replies":[]}}-->
The Swedish Navy (Marinen) is divided into two parts the fleet (Flottan) and the Amphibious Corps (Amfibiekåren). This is evident from the Swedish wikipage. However, on the English Wiki-page it is assumed that Swedish Navy (Marinen) is the organizational unit for the surface and submarine naval units. Those are organized into the fleet (Flottan).
To give a correct reflexion of the organizational structure there should be three pages;
Swedish Navy (Marinen) - with the overall mission, command structure, etc.
Swedish Fleet (Flottan) - info regarding the flotillas, surface and submarine units, equipment, etc.
Amphibious Corps (Amfibiekåren) - info regarding the corps, its location, equipment, etc.
This would give a more accurate picture of the Swedish navy. Mkallgren (talk) 12:55, 26 Juni 2018 (CET)
Should be mentioned smuggling is an issue as Sweden had a 50% tariff/import tax creating need for Naval interdiction. Sweden had purchased submarines for this purpose as well. TaylorLeem (talk) 01:39, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-07-14T01:39:00.000Z","author":"TaylorLeem","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-TaylorLeem-2020-07-14T01:39:00.000Z-Missing_background","replies":[]}}-->
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