This is an archive of past discussions about Mourning. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Mourning in Islam is missing in this website...The tragedy of Kerbala, which is commemorated to this date on every 1st month of the Islamic lunar Calender.It was a tragedy when the grand son of the Holy Prophet sacrificed all he had for saving Islam.This is why Islamic New year begins with mourning for forty days remebering the tragedy of Kerbala and learning lessons for defending the truth,and being steadfast in your duties. I believe this very important information is missing on this website

I have added the Category:Other conditions that may be a focus of clinical attention since there is no article on Bereavement or the more severe forms of mourning. Most morning is normal and not a clinic condition. --CloudSurfer 05:59, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Mourning is now supposed to be a psychiatric disorder? You're sad because somebody died; take a pill and make it better. Therapists and therapism are really, really, really, really scary. -- Smerdis of Tlön 01:00, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This article does not talk about the stages of dealing with death. I think it is like this 1st) denial 2nd) barging 3rd) anger 4th) depression 5th) acceptance

These are the physiological steps every one takes when deling with the death of a very close loved one.Ace ofgabriel 17:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-07-19T17:55:00.000Z","author":"Ace ofgabriel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ace_ofgabriel-2007-07-19T17:55:00.000Z-Stages_of_dealing_with_death","replies":["c-78.86.146.148-2009-01-28T16:21:00.000Z-Ace_ofgabriel-2007-07-19T17:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

See:

Kübler-Ross model . It seems to me this information has more place on a page explaining 'mourning' than descriptions of Victorian dress codes. --78.86.146.148 (talk) 16:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-01-28T16:21:00.000Z","author":"78.86.146.148","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-78.86.146.148-2009-01-28T16:21:00.000Z-Ace_ofgabriel-2007-07-19T17:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

KR stage model. Stage 2 is 'bargaining'. These are the stages on the K-R model for dealing with one's own approaching death I think, (or that of a a close friend/relative). And it's generally accepted now that you don't progress smoothly from one to the other, but often revisit, in a lesser form, the torments of an earlier stage. C S Lewis A Grief Observed has it fairly well described. Linuxlad (talk) 17:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-01-28T17:03:00.000Z","author":"Linuxlad","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Linuxlad-2009-01-28T17:03:00.000Z-Stages_of_dealing_with_death","replies":[]}}-->

The article, in its current state, could be renamed "Victorian mourning" (on the other hand the article made it pretty clear that was presenting this particular influence). It is awfully specific; no mention of Shiv'ah nor mourning in other cultures. (The reason I thought of this was I was working on Ethiopian Orthodox practices and wondered if I could find something besides similarities with Shiv'ah.) -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:46, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree, and I hope that someone with knowledge of other cultures' mourning customs steps up to the plate and adds them. (Same way with funeral). FWIW, shiv'ah is in fact linked in the article, if only as a see-also. Smerdis of Tlön 20:19, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Please help us add mourning customs for other cultures. I also want to add this picture of Mary Queen of Scots Image:Mary qos mourning.jpg in French mourning at some point. PKM 04:55, 5 October 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-10-05T04:55:00.000Z","author":"PKM","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-PKM-2005-10-05T04:55:00.000Z-Narrow_in_scope","replies":["c-Gyrofrog-2005-10-05T05:12:00.000Z-PKM-2005-10-05T04:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

If I am not mistaken, Muslims wear white when mourning (but I'm not sure whether this only pertains to female mourners). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:12, 5 October 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-10-05T05:12:00.000Z","author":"Gyrofrog","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Gyrofrog-2005-10-05T05:12:00.000Z-PKM-2005-10-05T04:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gazzarrr-2008-07-24T11:05:00.000Z-Gyrofrog-2005-10-05T05:12:00.000Z"]}}-->

"Narrow in scope" - agreed, I think this article could be expanded by also examining grief/mourning like behaviour in species other than humans. e.g. Elephants have been known to spend long periods of time hanging around the carcass of deceased family members, even after the carcass has decayed down to just the bones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gazzarrr (talk • contribs) 11:05, 24 July 2008 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-07-24T11:05:00.000Z","author":"Gazzarrr","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Gazzarrr-2008-07-24T11:05:00.000Z-Gyrofrog-2005-10-05T05:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

But the article doesn't even discuss human mourning. It's more of a review of fashion. This is downright bizarre!

Further to the aforegiven: Sources such as Rosenblatt 2010 give more information about mourning with respect to more than one culture.

• Rosenblatt, Paul C. (2010). "Shame and Death in Cultural Context". In Kauffman, Jeffrey (ed.). The Shame of Death, Grief, and Trauma. Taylor & Francis. ISBN 9780415997485. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Uncle G (talk) 07:32, 15 January 2013 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-01-15T07:32:00.000Z","author":"Uncle G","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Uncle_G-2013-01-15T07:32:00.000Z-Worldwide_view","replies":[]}}-->

I have added a little bit about the Ethiopian edir (or iddir). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:49, 12 October 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-10-12T03:49:00.000Z","author":"Gyrofrog","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gyrofrog-2005-10-12T03:49:00.000Z-Ethiopia","replies":["c-Gyrofrog-2016-12-31T17:33:00.000Z-Gyrofrog-2005-10-12T03:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

Another resource: "In Ethiopia, the elderly get new help from an old tool" - CSMonitor.com link -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:33, 31 December 2016 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-12-31T17:33:00.000Z","author":"Gyrofrog","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Gyrofrog-2016-12-31T17:33:00.000Z-Gyrofrog-2005-10-12T03:49:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

In Victorian times, & maybe before I'm not sure, when a widow, or other relative progressed through the mourning period, dress codes involved the transition from entirely black to black+white. Also as the mourning period progressed from 'mourning' to 'half-mourning', first of all purple shades were added to the black as the first addition of colour into the wardrobe. There is something about it here : http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-half-mourning.htm
and here! : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_black_dress
& see 'colors' here http://www.morbidoutlook.com/fashion/historical/2001_03_victorianmourn.html
& here about during the time of Jane Austen: http://www.worldmags.com/magazine/page.ihtml?pid=540&step=4
--78.86.146.148 (talk) 16:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-01-28T16:21:00.000Z","author":"78.86.146.148","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-78.86.146.148-2009-01-28T16:21:00.000Z-United_Kingdom_Section_-_history","replies":[]}}-->

I think these different subjects could be better divided on this page, or maybe put on different pages ? How about putting most of the content on this page onto another 'history' or 'historical traditions' page. And re-focussing this one on things people do today around the world, & the 'Stages of dealing with death' mentioned above. Maybe more links to (& content from) these places also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Death_customs
Funeral
--78.86.146.148 (talk) 16:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-01-28T16:21:00.000Z","author":"78.86.146.148","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-78.86.146.148-2009-01-28T16:21:00.000Z-history_&_traditions_Vs_current_day_practice","replies":[]}}-->

I believe their should be a section (or perhaps a whole new article) on the subject of the mourning of animals. The are several species in the animal kingdom that are known to mourn their dead (e.g. dolphins) and I think this would be a worthwhile addition.--Marcus Brute (talk) 17:38, 15 November 2009 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-11-15T17:38:00.000Z","author":"Marcus Brute","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Marcus_Brute-2009-11-15T17:38:00.000Z-Animal_mourning","replies":[]}}-->

When stated in the section where mourning could be expensive the question is asked "Why?" Gouging the bereft continues to this day. Then, as now, grief could be very profitable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrbentley (talk • contribs) 10:48, 18 April 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-04-18T10:48:00.000Z","author":"Mrbentley","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mrbentley-2011-04-18T10:48:00.000Z-Expense","replies":[]}}-->

Needs to reference Bereavement (redirects to grief), health effects, grief counseling, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.167.61.119 (talk) 12:25, 17 September 2011 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-09-17T12:25:00.000Z","author":"66.167.61.119","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-66.167.61.119-2011-09-17T12:25:00.000Z-Needs_to_reference_Bereavement_(redirects_to_grief),_health_effects,_grief_couns","replies":[]}}-->

I'm baffled by the reference to Czechoslovakia. I have no idea what it can refer to in the 19th century. It should mention Bohemia, Moravia, Slovakia, Silesia or Ruthenia as appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.196.5.82 (talk) 01:33, 19 August 2014 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-08-19T01:33:00.000Z","author":"69.196.5.82","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-69.196.5.82-2014-08-19T01:33:00.000Z-Czechoslovakia?","replies":[]}}-->

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In the European social customs and dress section, it says Since the 1870s, mourning practices for some cultures, even those who have emigrated to the United States, are to wear black for at least two years, though lifelong black for widows remains in Europe. However, I'm unable to find any reliable sources to verify this, and the unreliable sources that I have found suggest that it isn't true at all, and that it remains only in some small communities in some parts of Europe.

Gbear605 (talk) 22:07, 8 March 2021 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-03-08T22:07:00.000Z","author":"Gbear605","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gbear605-2021-03-08T22:07:00.000Z-Lifelong_black_in_Europe","replies":[]}}-->

I don't have a cite-able source for this but I can confirm at least anecdotally that life-long black is still a common enough custom in Greece. It's clearly on the way out as a custom, and much more common in rural Greece, but it's not unusual at all to see widows over the age of say 60-70 doing this. Skoulikomirmigotripa (talk) 19:37, 4 September 2021 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-09-04T19:37:00.000Z","author":"Skoulikomirmigotripa","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skoulikomirmigotripa-2021-09-04T19:37:00.000Z-Lifelong_black_in_Europe","replies":[]}}-->