Talk:Mason Remey/Archive 4

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Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

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Lead

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Asad29591, I suggest you read Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. Your attempts at rewriting was certainly WP:BOLD, and I like that, but it lacks redeeming qualities. The lead should reflect the main points of the article, according to the weight of those points. See MOS:OPEN for the opening paragraph: "The first paragraph should define or identify the topic with a neutral point of view, but without being too specific. It should establish the context in which the topic is being considered by supplying the set of circumstances or facts that surround it... It should also establish the boundaries of the topic;

The opening paragraph should establish notability. By far Remey's greatest notability comes from his failed attempt to claim leadership in 1960, not that his daddy was in the civil war or that he was an architect. Nor is his notability primarily from being a Hand of the Cause or on the International Baha'i Council. The reason Serv181920, and many others love this subject is that Remey started a schism and that created the controversy that drew people like Johnson to write a book about it. That has to be in the opening paragraph.

I'm going to restore the well-written lead. Having a source doesn't mean your version is appropriate or better, mine actually had better sourcing. If you want to change the lead you need to establish weight in secondary sources, a process that you have repeatedly failed to grasp across many pages. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 06:59, 2 April 2021 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-04-02T06:59:00.000Z","author":"Cu\u00f1ado","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-02T06:59:00.000Z-Lead","replies":["c-Serv181920-2021-04-04T10:29:00.000Z-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-02T06:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hi Cuñado, "The reason Serv181920, and many others love this subject..." I love the entire Baha'i faith. For me Mason Remey was a Baha'i till he died. Any person who believes in Baha'u'llah is a Baha'i, even the court ruled that. Correct? And Baha'u'llah has claimed to have abolished the evil practice of shunning and ex-communication, correct?Serv181920 (talk) 10:29, 4 April 2021 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-04-04T10:29:00.000Z","author":"Serv181920","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Serv181920-2021-04-04T10:29:00.000Z-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-02T06:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-04T16:58:00.000Z-Serv181920-2021-04-04T10:29:00.000Z"]}}-->

Who is your audience? It's obviously not me so I assume you're putting on a show in case we get more observers. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 16:58, 4 April 2021 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-04-04T16:58:00.000Z","author":"Cu\u00f1ado","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-04T16:58:00.000Z-Serv181920-2021-04-04T10:29:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Sure. Will Read. Thank you.Asad29591 (talk) 14:32, 5 April 2021 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-04-05T14:32:00.000Z","author":"Asad29591","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Asad29591-2021-04-05T14:32:00.000Z-Lead","replies":["c-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-06T23:59:00.000Z-Asad29591-2021-04-05T14:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

Serv181920, the phrase "Abha World Faith" was a phrase Remey used toward the end of his life when he had little to no followers. Sources describe that from ~~1964-1966~~ 1966-1967 he lost most of his followers and they became disorganized until Marangella scooped up most of them and declared that everything Remey said since 1964 was invalid. The 2007 court case was won largely because Orthodox Baha'is argued that the pronouncement against Remey in the 1960s does not apply to their group because they are not a continuation of his movement. Do not link "Abha World Faith" to the "Orthodox Baha'i Faith". Cuñado ☼ - Talk 23:59, 6 April 2021 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-04-06T23:59:00.000Z","author":"Cu\u00f1ado","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-06T23:59:00.000Z-Asad29591-2021-04-05T14:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-08T04:42:00.000Z-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-06T23:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

Cuñado, what is your source? or is it WP:OR?

You have the book with you. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 04:42, 8 April 2021 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-04-08T04:42:00.000Z","author":"Cu\u00f1ado","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-08T04:42:00.000Z-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-06T23:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Serv181920-2021-04-08T09:36:00.000Z-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-08T04:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

Your claim seems to be based on Kitab-i-Hearsay ie. WP:OR. If you have the source share it.Serv181920 (talk) 09:36, 8 April 2021 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-04-08T09:36:00.000Z","author":"Serv181920","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Serv181920-2021-04-08T09:36:00.000Z-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-08T04:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-08T23:02:00.000Z-Serv181920-2021-04-08T09:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

If you need your hand held, read Johnson's book pages 42-44. You could have also read the page that we're discussing. The lead should summarize the main points of the article. If you're not familiar with the subject, don't get into edit warring to push your POV to the lead. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 23:02, 8 April 2021 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-04-08T23:02:00.000Z","author":"Cu\u00f1ado","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-08T23:02:00.000Z-Serv181920-2021-04-08T09:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-Serv181920-2021-04-12T17:35:00.000Z-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-08T23:02:00.000Z"]}}-->

"hand held"!? - chill Cuñado. Have a nice day.Serv181920 (talk) 17:35, 12 April 2021 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2021-04-12T17:35:00.000Z","author":"Serv181920","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Serv181920-2021-04-12T17:35:00.000Z-Cu\u00f1ado-2021-04-08T23:02:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->