This is an archive of past discussions about Gunbound. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
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This section must describe the game's rules, modes, and all objects in field of play (that includes the mobiles). Expect to write explanations so that a NON-Gunbound player can look at a screenshot of a game screen and be able to understand what is going on. KyuuA419:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-20T19:59:00.000Z","author":"KyuuA4","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KyuuA4-2006-12-20T19:59:00.000Z-Game_Play_Section","replies":[]}}-->
I exchange "Gunbound Screenshot" for GunBound: Thor's Hammer Screenshot.
Some modifications are maded, but are very limited because I don't play the new international version yet.
You know, many things about the Gunbound article need to be edited because of the release of World Champion. I'll list the stuff that needs to be edited as I fetch it (note that not all of them are necessarily about WC):
Fully remove Sniper mode (or separate it from Slice and Drag and then talk about Sniper being a previous mode in TH).
In WC, room masters can't remove items anymore. // They fixed that. Carbunkel
The item is called "Thunder", not "Thunderbolt".
If I find something else, I'll post about it here.
hmm... the sniper feature is very good. and huh? in WC masteres can still remove items. i tried that
Great work, I thought it never will be added.
According my experiences, Ignorance Moon Disk stops the shield regenerating.
Land Moon Disk never shown up in the GunBound normal maps, but I saw some ScreenShots from the map "Cave" what it . You know, this map is very imprevisible.
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Concerning the list of official international websites
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Should we really remove them? They're official sites, after all. NickBush24 10:09, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
no reason to remove any official or highly significant links. this has mostly been covered in the earlier discussion. --nicolas.b12:38, 15 October 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-10-15T12:38:00.000Z","author":"Nicolas.b","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Nicolas.b-2005-10-15T12:38:00.000Z-Concerning_the_list_of_official_international_websites","replies":[]}}-->
They are not that important, since any of these pages can be visited through gunbound.softnyx.net, which is the International Gunbound website ; a global portal, if you will... --70.80.66.15705:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-03T05:20:00.000Z","author":"70.80.66.157","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-70.80.66.157-2005-11-03T05:20:00.000Z-Concerning_the_list_of_official_international_websites","replies":["c-Phil.andy.graves-2007-02-16T17:49:00.000Z-70.80.66.157-2005-11-03T05:20:00.000Z"]}}-->
However the global portal is not up to date anymore. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Phil.andy.graves (talk • contribs) 17:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC).__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-02-16T17:49:00.000Z","author":"Phil.andy.graves","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Phil.andy.graves-2007-02-16T17:49:00.000Z-70.80.66.157-2005-11-03T05:20:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
I removed the whole "Singlish is devoid of punctuation and is used by idiotic malaysians and singaporeans" part and replaced it with something a bit more informative -- bigotry has no place in an encyclopedia...
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I know that Turtle's SS Does not absorb "Force" effects until after it has split.
I have also heard that J-Frog's SS does not absorb Lightning.
Whether there are any more effects like this I am unaware. I suggest we place them here and discuss them before we legitimatly add them. Carbunkel01:01, 28 December 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-12-28T01:01:00.000Z","author":"Carbunkel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Carbunkel-2005-12-28T01:01:00.000Z-Special_Mobile_info","replies":[]}}-->
Well... some shots don't take weather into consideration. A.Sate's SS disregards any weather the tracer passed through (except thor) and the weather effect only applies when the tracer lands right inside the weather (e.g. force/lightning). Weathers don't have effect on Nak's Shot 2 when it is below the ground. But if the shot 2 comes up to the target that sits right under a weather, the effect is applied. Hurrcaine has different effects on Nak's Shot 2. If the bomb reaches the land prior to going through the hurrcaine, the hurrcaine is ignored. If the bomb goes under the land as a result of hurrcaine, the effect applies and the shot ends up in awkward location. OhanaUnited07:14, 17 December 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-17T07:14:00.000Z","author":"OhanaUnited","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-OhanaUnited-2006-12-17T07:14:00.000Z-Special_Mobile_info","replies":[]}}-->
I edited the defense reduction done by the Ice's SS from 20 to 5 as recent updates have changed its effects.
Tsukao21:26, 29 January 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-01-29T21:26:00.000Z","author":"Tsukao","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tsukao-2006-01-29T21:26:00.000Z-Regarding_Ice_SS\/55","replies":[]}}-->
It isn't free anymore, is it? --Gary King04:37, 31 January 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-01-31T04:37:00.000Z","author":"GaryKing","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GaryKing-2006-01-31T04:37:00.000Z-Free?","replies":[],"displayName":"Gary King"}}-->
Yes, it is. JONJONAUG01:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-07T01:38:00.000Z","author":"JONJONAUG","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JONJONAUG-2006-02-07T01:38:00.000Z-Free?","replies":[]}}-->
Is this really appropriate for the page? If every subject that has a certain lingo or slang listed it in the article, it would be rediculous. Not to mention that the slang is probably unverifiable by a reputable source. Krabstarr06:18, 10 February 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-10T06:18:00.000Z","author":"Krabstarr","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Krabstarr-2006-02-10T06:18:00.000Z-Slang_Section","replies":["c-GlennHideaki-2006-03-07T19:23:00.000Z-Krabstarr-2006-02-10T06:18:00.000Z","c-Krabstarr-2006-03-08T00:18:00.000Z-Krabstarr-2006-02-10T06:18:00.000Z"]}}-->
What if we were to limit the slang list to acronyms and terms more or less unique to GunBound (nado, haircut, sg, etc...) and let other articles like Internet Slang take care of the rest? Perhaps a "Video Game Slang" article could be in order. Filter bypass stuff should probably be left out entirely; not only are those generally easy to figure out, but there are way too many to keep track of. --GlennHideaki19:23, 7 March 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-03-07T19:23:00.000Z","author":"GlennHideaki","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-GlennHideaki-2006-03-07T19:23:00.000Z-Krabstarr-2006-02-10T06:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-KyuuA4-2006-12-20T19:40:00.000Z-GlennHideaki-2006-03-07T19:23:00.000Z"]}}-->
There's already a separate article on leet speak. No need to have a specialized one for GB. KyuuA419:40, 20 December 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-20T19:40:00.000Z","author":"KyuuA4","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-KyuuA4-2006-12-20T19:40:00.000Z-GlennHideaki-2006-03-07T19:23:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
Yeah, a good deal of the items on the list don't pertain JUST to Gunbound, like gg and gl. And I agree on losing the filter bypass stuff too. That section just needs an overhaul and should be focused on Gunbound-specific terms. Krabstarr00:18, 8 March 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-03-08T00:18:00.000Z","author":"Krabstarr","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Krabstarr-2006-03-08T00:18:00.000Z-Krabstarr-2006-02-10T06:18:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
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Can we get a citation for this please? Krabstarr02:12, 7 March 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-03-07T02:12:00.000Z","author":"Krabstarr","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Krabstarr-2006-03-07T02:12:00.000Z-Controversy_in_Uganda","replies":["c-GlennHideaki-2006-03-07T17:17:00.000Z-Krabstarr-2006-03-07T02:12:00.000Z"]}}-->
All of the changes by 162.84.168.183 were bogus. I have to hand it to him/her for creativity, though. --GlennHideaki17:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-03-07T17:17:00.000Z","author":"GlennHideaki","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-GlennHideaki-2006-03-07T17:17:00.000Z-Krabstarr-2006-03-07T02:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
If you want to make up Random stuff about Gunbound go to the uncyclopedia article I made. Click this doodad--->[1]
Carbunkel19:00, 8 March 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-03-08T19:00:00.000Z","author":"Carbunkel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Carbunkel-2006-03-08T19:00:00.000Z-Random_stuff","replies":[]}}-->
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There should be a section explaining what weather patterns are on what maps in what order. I can't do this at the moment; hopefully someone can help me.
Freddie17:44, 19 March 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-03-19T17:44:00.000Z","author":"Fredil Yupigo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-03-19T17:44:00.000Z-Weather_Patterns_on_Maps","replies":[],"displayName":"Freddie"}}-->
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I'm thinking about making articles about each bot. Their attacks, story, etc. If anyone has anything to say or their own opinion, please say it out loud either here or at my talk page.
Freddie03:02, 21 March 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-03-21T03:02:00.000Z","author":"Fredil Yupigo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-03-21T03:02:00.000Z-Articles_for_each_Bot","replies":["c-Phil.andy.graves-2007-02-16T17:54:00.000Z-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-03-21T03:02:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Freddie"}}-->
I wouldn't argue with you about this, but it's like making a page for each car in Gran Tourismo. Phil.andy.graves17:54, 16 February 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-02-16T17:54:00.000Z","author":"Phil.andy.graves","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Phil.andy.graves-2007-02-16T17:54:00.000Z-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-03-21T03:02:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
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I did a major overhaul on "List of GunBound mobiles and their attacks" and took out any racial words or inaccuracies.
Please trust my judgement, I am a veteran of the game and take part in guide discussions for the mobiles.
However, this part of of the wikipedia entry needs a lot more work still...
Mezzaninex07:17, 22 April 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-04-22T07:17:00.000Z","author":"Mezzaninex","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mezzaninex-2006-04-22T07:17:00.000Z-List_of_GunBound_mobiles_and_their_attacks","replies":[]}}-->
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What happened to the earlier discussions? Are they archived somewhere? It's nice to see that there is now a TOC of discussions, but discouraging that i don't see the comments from earlier curators. Specifically those who came before me when i did some work here in 2005.--nicolas.b10:42, 29 April 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-04-29T10:42:00.000Z","author":"Nicolas.b","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Nicolas.b-2006-04-29T10:42:00.000Z-What_happened_to_the_earlier_discussions?","replies":[]}}-->
In a few days the entire GunBound Article will be revamped by me. Feel free to help me/give me a few pointers at my Talk page or feel free to edit the draft. Also, List of GunBound Mobiles and their Attacks needs an article on its own. Discuss at this page. (Note: that new article needs images.)
FreddieAgainst Userbox Deletion?01:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-21T01:42:00.000Z","author":"Fredil Yupigo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-05-21T01:42:00.000Z-GunBound_Article_Revamp","replies":["c-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-06-03T14:27:00.000Z-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-05-21T01:42:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Fr"}}-->
Rebvamp is done. Freddie14:27, 3 June 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-06-03T14:27:00.000Z","author":"Fredil Yupigo","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-06-03T14:27:00.000Z-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-05-21T01:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-KyuuA4-2006-12-19T19:50:00.000Z-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-06-03T14:27:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Fr"}}-->
Revamp? There's nothing left in this article. KyuuA419:50, 19 December 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-19T19:50:00.000Z","author":"KyuuA4","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-KyuuA4-2006-12-19T19:50:00.000Z-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-06-03T14:27:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
I feel that something should be added about the culture of the game, especially the lower levels, which garner a very significant amount of immaturity (moreso than most online games) due to the avg. age of the player (mid teens). This causes many a player to stop playing because its simply not worth it to move up in the rankings... If there arent any objections, I might type up something myself in the near future. --124.98.228.5012:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-06-27T12:04:00.000Z","author":"124.98.228.50","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-124.98.228.50-2006-06-27T12:04:00.000Z-Culture?","replies":[]}}-->
note to self: remember to login. The above is me. --Platonic Nirvana12:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-06-27T12:07:00.000Z","author":"Platonic Nirvana","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Platonic_Nirvana-2006-06-27T12:07:00.000Z-Culture?","replies":[]}}-->
Because of the abrupt change in...well... everything about gunbound but especially the new online system and the change from "gold" to "ijji gold", theres obviously been some kind of a deal in between Softnyx and Ijji. Because I a) dont know korean and b) really dont want to sift through the graphical mess that is the softnyx site, does anyone know exactly what happened? --Platonic Nirvana21:20, 17 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-17T21:20:00.000Z","author":"Platonic Nirvana","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Platonic_Nirvana-2006-07-17T21:20:00.000Z-Revolution_--_deal?","replies":[]}}-->
It's like a 1.5 version of GunBound WC... the game itself says that softnyx dev. and ijji publicates...
Off topic: Better separate Revolution from here? People already did a specifical article for it (GunBound Revolution). --Talkalion22:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-31T22:09:00.000Z","author":"Talkalion","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Talkalion-2006-07-31T22:09:00.000Z-Revolution_--_deal?","replies":[]}}-->
I changed a couple of things that were bothering me, a spelling thing (Internation -> International) and reworded the phrase "can do none or some of to the following" under Gameplay to read "May be able to do some of the following".
In gameplay the control F8 to skip a turn is mentioned, and I'm wondering if that's appropriate. Should controls be mentioned at all in the article? And if so, shouldn't that be its own section? Just looking for some input.
Phateunknown21:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-25T21:33:00.000Z","author":"Phateunknown","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Phateunknown-2006-07-25T21:33:00.000Z-Copyediting","replies":["c-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-07-26T00:04:00.000Z-Phateunknown-2006-07-25T21:33:00.000Z"]}}-->
I've noticed that as well, and it seems that my major edits have mostly been undone. The F8 to skip a turn is appropriate, as it is related to gameplay, and in my version, it does have its own section. However, the phrase "can do none or some of the following" is most definetly not appropriate, and does not comply with the NPOV policy. Feel free to edit this article as you wish, but please don't vandalize. Fredil Yupigo00:04, 26 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-26T00:04:00.000Z","author":"Fredil Yupigo","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Fredil_Yupigo-2006-07-26T00:04:00.000Z-Phateunknown-2006-07-25T21:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
No point having a separate article on this as its exactly the same game but just played on a different group of servers. Recommend merge Bwithh18:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-08-06T18:43:00.000Z","author":"Bwithh","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bwithh-2006-08-06T18:43:00.000Z-Gunbound_Revolution_merge","replies":[]}}-->
Just do it--DethFromAbove01:10, 12 August 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-08-12T01:10:00.000Z","author":"DethFromAbove","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DethFromAbove-2006-08-12T01:10:00.000Z-Gunbound_Revolution_merge","replies":["c-Prod-2006-10-03T18:55:00.000Z-DethFromAbove-2006-08-12T01:10:00.000Z"]}}-->
Done, not very well, but all the info is now here. -- Prod-You18:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-10-03T18:55:00.000Z","author":"Prod","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Prod-2006-10-03T18:55:00.000Z-DethFromAbove-2006-08-12T01:10:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Prod-You"}}-->
This article still reads like a video game guide or instruction manual. Needs to be rewritten/edited down to an encyclopedia article. Bwithh00:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-10-28T00:21:00.000Z","author":"Bwithh","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bwithh-2006-10-28T00:21:00.000Z-Rewrite","replies":[]}}-->
This article confuses me, and it could need a rewrite from a pro on Wikipedia, sounds like a stragedy guide and lacks encyclopedia compounds. Hugo hume15:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T15:50:00.000Z","author":"Hugo hume","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hugo_hume-2007-07-09T15:50:00.000Z-Rewrite","replies":["c-OhanaUnited-2007-07-09T17:32:00.000Z-Hugo_hume-2007-07-09T15:50:00.000Z"]}}-->
I think it's pretty clear. If we need a rewrite (aka adding more info to it), it will turn into a strategy guide. In fact, it should be time to stubify it again. OhanaUnitedTalk page17:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-07-09T17:32:00.000Z","author":"OhanaUnited","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-OhanaUnited-2007-07-09T17:32:00.000Z-Hugo_hume-2007-07-09T15:50:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
How exactly does this game meet WP:WEB or WP:SOFTWARE? I'm not seeing any references that prove notability. Is there a major review somewhere that I missed? --Elonka21:05, 12 November 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-11-12T21:05:00.000Z","author":"Elonka","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Elonka-2006-11-12T21:05:00.000Z-Notability_concerns","replies":["c-Seraphimblade-2006-11-13T19:30:00.000Z-Elonka-2006-11-12T21:05:00.000Z"]}}-->
Tend to agree, sending to AfD. I can't find a thing on Google except for self-published stuff and a couple of strategy guides. Seraphimblade19:30, 13 November 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-11-13T19:30:00.000Z","author":"Seraphimblade","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Seraphimblade-2006-11-13T19:30:00.000Z-Elonka-2006-11-12T21:05:00.000Z","replies":["c-Trusilver-2006-11-16T07:18:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2006-11-13T19:30:00.000Z"]}}-->
How odd, I googled it and the first thing that came up was the official Gunbound website. I have often heard, to wit, "non-notable" defined as "Anything the person defining non-notable doesn't care about." Reading the website, I see sufficient evidence of notability for this article. However, and this is a big "however", this article is not suitable in its current form and needs to be trimmed down and wikified. I think that considering the subject matter, this article should be about a quarter of its current size. I'm hoping for someone else to take a shot at this as I tend to be a little heavy-handed in such matters and would chop up this article into about two paragraphs. Trusilver07:18, 16 November 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-11-16T07:18:00.000Z","author":"Trusilver","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Trusilver-2006-11-16T07:18:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2006-11-13T19:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Seraphimblade-2006-11-16T07:22:00.000Z-Trusilver-2006-11-16T07:18:00.000Z"]}}-->
Did see that myself. However, the WP:WEB criterion is that the writeups must be "independent of the site itself"-as of course the game's own website is not, nor can I find any coverage of this game which is. What's the evidence of notability on the official website-I didn't read it, does the website itself link to secondary sources? Please do keep in mind, popularity is not a criterion of notability, as seems to be a common misunderstanding here. I'm not sure what -to- write, as there's not a thing I can find from any reliable secondary source. Seraphimblade07:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-11-16T07:22:00.000Z","author":"Seraphimblade","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Seraphimblade-2006-11-16T07:22:00.000Z-Trusilver-2006-11-16T07:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-Trusilver-2006-11-16T07:59:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2006-11-16T07:22:00.000Z"]}}-->
Digging around on Google and Gamefaqs I found quite a bit of material on this, the only problem is that there is a big disparity on this subject between the wealth of information and the wealth of "reputable" information. As much as I didn't want to get dragged into the rewrite of this article, I'm going to spend a day or two digging to see if I can find any source information that lives up to Wiki standards. Trusilver07:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-11-16T07:59:00.000Z","author":"Trusilver","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Trusilver-2006-11-16T07:59:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2006-11-16T07:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Trusilver-2006-11-18T18:43:00.000Z-Trusilver-2006-11-16T07:59:00.000Z"]}}-->
Okay, seraphimblade, I'm going to concede on this one. I have spent two days trying to find reputable independant information on this game, (taking time away from my other projects that I don't have.) and I have come up empty on it. If you decide to nominate this for deletion based on non-notability, you will have my second. Trusilver18:43, 18 November 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-11-18T18:43:00.000Z","author":"Trusilver","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Trusilver-2006-11-18T18:43:00.000Z-Trusilver-2006-11-16T07:59:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
I have to disagree with the merger between the normal Gun Bound article and the seperate Gun Bound Revolution article. If I'm not mistaken, this is English Wikipeida, not US Wikipedia, and other English speaking countries of the world like the United Kingdom don't use Gun Bound Revolution, they use Gun Bound World Champion. Zeotronic 22:00, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
As per consensus in the AfD I cut down the article to its essentials. This means most of the removed material should not be re-added, and all material that is re-added should be sourced using reliable independent sources to back it up. Wikipedia is not a game guide, and the article can potentially be deleted under the WP:NOT policy. ~ trialsanderrors06:08, 19 November 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-11-19T06:08:00.000Z","author":"Trialsanderrors","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Trialsanderrors-2006-11-19T06:08:00.000Z-AfD_closure","replies":["c-Andrevan-2006-11-21T14:52:00.000Z-Trialsanderrors-2006-11-19T06:08:00.000Z"]}}-->
I'm going to try to improve the article this week, but I want to point out that the consensus on the AfD was not to cut down the article to its essentials. Certainly everyone seems to agree that a rewrite is necessary, but this was not "mandated," nor is there a policy that allows deletion under WP:NOT in the absence of a successful AFD. Let us proceed to improve this article without being overzealous about trimming it. There is a great deal of valuable information that can be sourced and included. Andre (talk) 14:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-11-21T14:52:00.000Z","author":"Andrevan","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Andrevan-2006-11-21T14:52:00.000Z-Trialsanderrors-2006-11-19T06:08:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Andre"}}-->
I understand that this article recently underwent a major rewrite, removing all of the gameplay and strategy etc. from it. However, why is the same not being done to other articles, such as RuneScape or Rakion? --Smoothtofu02:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-11-27T02:58:00.000Z","author":"Smoothtofu","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Smoothtofu-2006-11-27T02:58:00.000Z-AfD_closure","replies":[]}}-->
true, the old article versions weren't that great but having a stub like this doesn't help wikipedia at all. You might as well delete it than have that short of an article. Or let's all stubify the video game articles like Final Fantasy or ChronoTrigger. Yea, that would really help. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.107.17.71 (talk) 00:17, 10 December 2006 (UTC).__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-10T00:17:00.000Z","author":"70.107.17.71","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-70.107.17.71-2006-12-10T00:17:00.000Z-i_think_thats_overkill","replies":[]}}-->
I just removed the following external links from the article:
Polish GunBound:WC community/forum
Obviously just an advertisement. Besides, I highly doubt a message board with about 100 posts is notable.
GunBound resources -- GunBound tip and tricks
Didn't seem notable enough to me. It seemed like a site with some information about PLAYING the game, not about it. Also, 50% of the site is just blatant advertising.
Bunge Holes -- GunBound fansite
The link description says it for me. Fansite. Not only did it lack the information needed to possibly be included, but it doesn't seem like a reputable source of information to me.
Fire! The Gunbound Fanlisting
Nothing more than an email directory of people who play the game. This article is about the game itself - not those that play it.
If any of you disagree, feel free to re-add them. However, I kindly ask that you back up your claim as to why any of these sites should be included in the article.
Ibm243108:28, 10 December 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-10T08:28:00.000Z","author":"Ibm2431","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ibm2431-2006-12-10T08:28:00.000Z-Link_Removal","replies":[]}}-->
Complete and major overwrite. Implemented Wikipedia MoS and cleaned up non-verifiable facts. Removed notices. Please do not revert completely and add notices again if you think the article is not clean.
--Raghavsethi08:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-18T08:57:00.000Z","author":"Raghavsethi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Raghavsethi-2006-12-18T08:57:00.000Z-Major_Rewrite","replies":[]}}-->
in correspondence to Ibm2431's previous post. I must agree, that the second link I've provided, is a site with some information how to play the game with tricks instead.
Also to keep in mind, if an external link is added, it should be focused on the games themselves, not how to play them. The two sites contributes factors that are closely tied to a game manual. In addition, the two links do not contribute any information regarding this article.
It's been removed earlier and been re-added again by the same person. If the link must stay, I kindly request the person responsible to explain why it should be left intact. Otherwise, it's blatant advertising.
I am vahsi000 owner of elinegames; yes it is true that when I first posted my link into the external links section my intentions were blatant advertising. But when I realised my link was removed and came across this page and read this exact post, I decided to write a more informative article on the page I linked to yet not so formal as Wikipedia. Some of the information came from Wikipedia and some came from my own knowledge. When it comes to contributing to wikipedia, I prefer to keep my article on my page since the knowledge on Wikipedia is too formal for my style of writing.
One thing that needs to be understood is that people who look up gunbound on google or wherever, they are mainly young people, students who most likely might not want to read all of this information. The information I supply is simple and to the point, so I do not see any reason why my link shouldn't be on Wikipedia. For this reason, I will be re-adding my links on the page until someone else comes up with another (good) reason why my article isn't good enough (or if I get a warning from a team leader). Vahsi000
thuglastalk|edits17:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)When was gunbound created?
when did it move to US/Canada other regions.
I searched around and couldnt find anything... maybe someone else can.__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-30T17:36:00.000Z","author":"Thuglas","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thuglas-2006-12-30T17:36:00.000Z-Creation","replies":[]}}-->
The first ever GunBound (localized Korean Thor's Hammer) was launched in May 2002. Other pre-2006 dates can be found on the softnyx company website [2]. Sadly, that website misses the launch of GB World Champion (May 31st, 2005 [3]).
GB International didnt _move_ to US/Canada, GB Revolution was created as North American localized version of the game. The players registered as US/CA got moved from the international servers, though. All that happened in early July 2006 [4].
--Narrrf05:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-12-31T05:41:00.000Z","author":"Narrrf","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Narrrf-2006-12-31T05:41:00.000Z-Creation","replies":[]}}-->
Shouldn't that be included in the article? It currently has 2005 as the release date, but there should be some mention of Thor's hammer's release date as well, since that's where it all began
I remembered a critism on this, or maybe another pedia. That one was deleted, and the critism here was taken off. Why?
I remember it too, I'm going to tag i think. thuglastalk|edits05:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-01-24T05:08:00.000Z","author":"Thuglas","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thuglas-2007-01-24T05:08:00.000Z-Critism?","replies":[]}}-->
Changed mind. Someone else can. I'm not too sure the other info was really needed. thuglastalk|edits05:14, 24 January 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-01-24T05:14:00.000Z","author":"Thuglas","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Thuglas-2007-01-24T05:14:00.000Z-Critism?","replies":[]}}-->
Who wrote about a new mobile call Raven? Is it a rumour? Or it exists?
OhanaUnited05:33, 1 February 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-02-01T05:33:00.000Z","author":"OhanaUnited","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-OhanaUnited-2007-02-01T05:33:00.000Z-Raven?!","replies":[]}}-->
It's just a rumour I think but i believe there is indeed a new mobile coming out (dubbed Raven)?Singlemolecule 22:09, 1 February 2007 (GMT)
As you know, Wikipedia's policy is to cite vertifiable information, not rumours. I'll take away that portion until new information surfaces. OhanaUnited06:05, 2 February 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-02-02T06:05:00.000Z","author":"OhanaUnited","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-OhanaUnited-2007-02-02T06:05:00.000Z-Raven?!","replies":[]}}-->
I found this article in bad shape. I am taking the liberty of refining it where necessary in a span of ten days, at most. I will not alter or evaluate further on any information found in this article unless it has faults regarding grammatical structure or terminology. Feel free to contact me via any means possible or make a direct edit to the article if necessary. (I prefer that I be notified beforehand.)
Posting Time and date: 12:36 p.m. (GMT+08:00); February 8, 2007.
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Some idiots have been found altering facts on this page to total crap or adding things to it as though it were a strategy guide. Reverting to my last update.
I suggest someone take action on these users a.s.a.p.
KajiTetsushi05:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-02-12T05:48:00.000Z","author":"KajiTetsushi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KajiTetsushi-2007-02-12T05:48:00.000Z-Vandalism_on_the_page","replies":[]}}-->
I noticed a few good minor changes done by other users. Thank you for contributing. KajiTetsushi06:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-02-12T06:11:00.000Z","author":"KajiTetsushi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KajiTetsushi-2007-02-12T06:11:00.000Z-Vandalism_on_the_page","replies":[]}}-->
The article looks sufficient, but we're always catching users toy with it - we might as well take a stronger action than simple reverting. Adding semi-protection tag... KajiTetsushi14:29, 1 March 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-03-01T14:29:00.000Z","author":"KajiTetsushi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KajiTetsushi-2007-03-01T14:29:00.000Z-Article_complete._Protection_needed.","replies":["c-Seraphimblade-2007-03-01T14:59:00.000Z-KajiTetsushi-2007-03-01T14:29:00.000Z"]}}-->
I've removed the tag, as it's not for use on articles which have not actually been semi-protected by an administrator. Please keep in mind that this is a wiki, and other users are allowed to "toy with" the article so long as their edits are in good faith, no one owns it. Semi-protection is only for use when clear, obvious vandalism is occurring at a high rate on a given article, that doesn't seem to be the case here. SeraphimbladeTalk to mePlease review me!14:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-03-01T14:59:00.000Z","author":"Seraphimblade","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Seraphimblade-2007-03-01T14:59:00.000Z-KajiTetsushi-2007-03-01T14:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-OhanaUnited-2007-03-06T02:34:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2007-03-01T14:59:00.000Z"]}}-->
I think we should also add in what mobile belongs to which group. For a new player who never heard of Gunbound, it's totally possible that they think Bigfoot is an organic mobile (references to the mythlogical creature Bigfoot). If no one objects, I'll add that in. OhanaUnited02:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-03-06T02:34:00.000Z","author":"OhanaUnited","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-OhanaUnited-2007-03-06T02:34:00.000Z-Seraphimblade-2007-03-01T14:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-KajiTetsushi-2007-03-08T10:30:00.000Z-OhanaUnited-2007-03-06T02:34:00.000Z"]}}-->
Okay. I second that motion. KajiTetsushi10:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-03-08T10:30:00.000Z","author":"KajiTetsushi","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-KajiTetsushi-2007-03-08T10:30:00.000Z-OhanaUnited-2007-03-06T02:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
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Since the last few reverts, someone has removed information concerning avatars and game currency. It used to be here quite some time back. So, I reverted the article so that the aforementioned information is there for everyone to see. KajiTetsushi05:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-03-11T05:04:00.000Z","author":"KajiTetsushi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KajiTetsushi-2007-03-11T05:04:00.000Z-Avatar_and_game_currency_info_missing","replies":["c-OhanaUnited-2007-03-15T04:02:00.000Z-KajiTetsushi-2007-03-11T05:04:00.000Z"]}}-->
I agree. Someone tried to revert but didn't do the whole thing completely. Sometimes it is vandalized more than once before it is reverted so some info were lost. OhanaUnited04:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-03-15T04:02:00.000Z","author":"OhanaUnited","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-OhanaUnited-2007-03-15T04:02:00.000Z-KajiTetsushi-2007-03-11T05:04:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
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__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-KajiTetsushi-2007-04-07T04:27:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Is_\"Commonly_played_game_mode_or_not?\"_a_trivia?-2007-04-07T04:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-KajiTetsushi-2007-04-07T04:27:00.000Z-Is_\"Commonly_played_game_mode_or_not?\"_a_trivia?"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"Is \"Commonly played game mode or not?\" a trivia?","linkableTitle":"Is \"Commonly played game mode or not?\" a trivia?"}-->
I remember someone adding what I might call minor tidbits about the game. An example is Score mode being most commonly played over the GB servers.
Shouldn't that stuff be deleted or be classified as trivia? I'm just trying to keep up with the Keep and Stubtify decision of this community.KajiTetsushi04:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-04-07T04:27:00.000Z","author":"KajiTetsushi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KajiTetsushi-2007-04-07T04:27:00.000Z-Is_\"Commonly_played_game_mode_or_not?\"_a_trivia?","replies":[]}}-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-KajiTetsushi-2007-04-07T04:48:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Avatar_specifications_too_long-2007-04-07T04:48:00.000Z","replies":["c-KajiTetsushi-2007-04-07T04:48:00.000Z-Avatar_specifications_too_long"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"Avatar specifications too long","linkableTitle":"Avatar specifications too long"}-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-KajiTetsushi-2007-04-07T04:48:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Avatar_specifications_too_long-2007-04-07T04:48:00.000Z","replies":["c-KajiTetsushi-2007-04-07T04:48:00.000Z-Avatar_specifications_too_long"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"Avatar specifications too long","linkableTitle":"Avatar specifications too long"}-->
May I also recommend that we shift the Avatar details into an article subtopic? From the way I see it, it looks a bit too lengthy. Again, we ARE trying to keep this article as short and as easily readable as possible, aren't we? KajiTetsushi04:48, 7 April 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-04-07T04:48:00.000Z","author":"KajiTetsushi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KajiTetsushi-2007-04-07T04:48:00.000Z-Avatar_specifications_too_long","replies":[]}}-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Joseph_Collins-2007-04-26T20:04:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Fortress_vs._Gunbound?-2007-04-26T20:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-Joseph_Collins-2007-04-26T20:04:00.000Z-Fortress_vs._Gunbound?"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"Fortress vs. Gunbound?","linkableTitle":"Fortress vs. Gunbound?"}-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Joseph_Collins-2007-04-26T20:04:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Fortress_vs._Gunbound?-2007-04-26T20:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-Joseph_Collins-2007-04-26T20:04:00.000Z-Fortress_vs._Gunbound?"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"Fortress vs. Gunbound?","linkableTitle":"Fortress vs. Gunbound?"}-->
What's this about something called "Fortress vs. Gunbound"? GameFAQs has an entry about the game, but I saw no real info about it other than it's by some company called "Nate" and Softnyx. The message board didn't even have any info... So what is it? ~ Joseph Collins (U)(T)(C) 20:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-04-26T20:04:00.000Z","author":"Joseph Collins","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Joseph_Collins-2007-04-26T20:04:00.000Z-Fortress_vs._Gunbound?","replies":[],"displayName":"U"}}-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-DarkSaber2k-2007-05-22T09:21:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Notability_and_sources-2007-05-22T09:21:00.000Z","replies":["c-DarkSaber2k-2007-05-22T09:21:00.000Z-Notability_and_sources"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"Notability and sources","linkableTitle":"Notability and sources"}-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-DarkSaber2k-2007-05-22T09:21:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Notability_and_sources-2007-05-22T09:21:00.000Z","replies":["c-DarkSaber2k-2007-05-22T09:21:00.000Z-Notability_and_sources"],"uneditableSection":true,"text":"Notability and sources","linkableTitle":"Notability and sources"}-->
This article has no assertion of notability, and any such claim would need to be verifiable through reliable sources. Without these the article is wide open for a deletion nomination. DarkSaber2k09:21, 22 May 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-05-22T09:21:00.000Z","author":"DarkSaber2k","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DarkSaber2k-2007-05-22T09:21:00.000Z-Notability_and_sources","replies":["c-DarkSaber2k-2007-05-25T08:46:00.000Z-DarkSaber2k-2007-05-22T09:21:00.000Z"]}}-->
I have removed the critical reception section since GameFAQs is not, and has never been accepted as a reliable source, due to all the reviews being user-submitted. Please discuss it here before re-adding. DarkSaber2k08:46, 25 May 2007 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-05-25T08:46:00.000Z","author":"DarkSaber2k","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-DarkSaber2k-2007-05-25T08:46:00.000Z-DarkSaber2k-2007-05-22T09:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
This is an archive of past discussions about Gunbound. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
