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Military history: Canadian / North America

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	Canadian military history task force
	North American military history task force

On 9 October 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from The Fort Garry Horse to Fort Garry Horse. The result of the discussion was moved.

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Requested move 9 October 2022

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 19:17, 16 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221016191700","author":"Elli","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Elli-20221016191700-Requested_move_9_October_2022","replies":[]}}-->

– Standardization of naming with other military units in commonwealth countries, and WP:THE. There are surely other articles that are in scope of this discussion and I suppose categories should also be considered.--Labattblueboy (talk) 19:16, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221009191600","author":"Labattblueboy","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Labattblueboy-20221009191600-Requested_move_9_October_2022","replies":["c-GraemeLeggett-20221009204400-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","c-BarrelProof-20221009234000-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","c-Rreagan007-20221010005900-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","c-Dhtwiki-20221010021200-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","c-SHB2000-20221010060300-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","c-Ortizesp-20221010081800-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","c-CdnMCG-20221010202400-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","c-Indefatigable-20221012024400-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","c-Necrothesp-20221012124400-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","c-Peacemaker67-20221015074400-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","c-Shwcz-20221015151600-Labattblueboy-20221009191600"]}}-->

Comment - 1) in some Commonwealth nation regiments eg British The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment), it appears that "The" is an official part of the name of these regiments. 2) WP:THE says condition for use may be met if it is part of "the official or commonly used name or nickname of a group... " I think this is not as clear cut as made out in the nomination. GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:44, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221009204400","author":"GraemeLeggett","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-GraemeLeggett-20221009204400-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","replies":["c-GraemeLeggett-20221009210200-GraemeLeggett-20221009204400","c-Labattblueboy-20221010083400-GraemeLeggett-20221009204400"]}}-->

Further to that, I had a look at some Canadian insignia. Of what I've seen these units have "the" on their shoulder flash. GraemeLeggett (talk) 21:02, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221009210200","author":"GraemeLeggett","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-GraemeLeggett-20221009210200-GraemeLeggett-20221009204400","replies":[]}}-->

It's worth noting the UK regiment article name is Black Watch not 'The Black Watch'. It would seem silly for articles of the Canadian regiments to employ 'The' when the original UK regiments don't.--Labattblueboy (talk) 08:34, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221010083400","author":"Labattblueboy","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Labattblueboy-20221010083400-GraemeLeggett-20221009204400","replies":[]}}-->

Generally support per WP:THE, MOS:THEINST and MOS:TMTHE: Officialness is seldom a persuasive argument on Wikipedia, and these don't seem like they really need the "The" in common use or to have it capped in midsentence. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:40, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221009234000","author":"BarrelProof","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-BarrelProof-20221009234000-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","replies":[]}}-->
Support per WP:THE. Starting an article title with the definite article is generally discouraged. Rreagan007 (talk) 00:59, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221010005900","author":"Rreagan007","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Rreagan007-20221010005900-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","replies":[]}}-->
Comment – Would support were this massive name more carefully limited to those units where "The" is not a part of official title as seen on, say, cap badges. For example,The Royal Canadian Hussars (Montreal) don't include "The", The Brockville Rifles do. Dhtwiki (talk) 02:12, 10 October 2022 (UTC)(edited 21:55, 10 October 2022 (UTC))[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221010021200","author":"Dhtwiki","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Dhtwiki-20221010021200-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","replies":[]}}-->
Support all per WP:THE. --SHB2000 (talk) 06:03, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221010060300","author":"SHB2000","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SHB2000-20221010060300-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","replies":[]}}-->
Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 08:18, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221010081800","author":"Ortizesp","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ortizesp-20221010081800-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","replies":[]}}-->
Oppose - "The" is part of the official name of some of those regiments to the point of being capitalized even in the middle of a sentence. This applies to most Canadian infantry regiments, and you can clearly see those which include "The" in thier names from those that do not on the Canadian government's own listing of the regiments: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/military-history/history-heritage/official-military-history-lineages/lineages/infantry-regiments.html CdnMCG (talk) 20:24, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221010202400","author":"CdnMCG","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-CdnMCG-20221010202400-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","replies":["c-CdnMCG-20221010203300-CdnMCG-20221010202400"]}}-->
Further, the same is true of the armoured regiments as seen here: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/military-history/history-heritage/official-military-history-lineages/lineages/armour-regiments.html If you follow the links on either of these pages to view the specific regimental pages, you will see "The" capitalized as part of the regimental name at mid-sentence in the first sentence just below the title on each page. CdnMCG (talk) 20:33, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221010203300","author":"CdnMCG","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-CdnMCG-20221010203300-CdnMCG-20221010202400","replies":[]}}-->
Support - the capitalized The is not used in reliable sources that are not closely linked to the regiments or the army. Removing The is similar to our policy of down-casing trademarks that the trademark owner writes in all-caps despite their not being acronyms, like Via Rail and Telus. Indefatigable (talk) 02:44, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221012024400","author":"Indefatigable","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Indefatigable-20221012024400-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","replies":["c-CdnMCG-20221012124900-Indefatigable-20221012024400"]}}-->
I posted links to an official government of Canada website that lists the regiments with some deliberately showing "The" and others not. That is a conscious decision from what would appear to be a reliable source. Those regiments that contain "The" in the lists of regiments also have the mid-sentence capitalization on the specific regimental heritage pages that site contains, while those regiments not listed with "The" do not have mid-sentance capitalization on the specific regimental heritage pages. Again, this is conscious decision from what would appear to be a reliable source. CdnMCG (talk) 12:49, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221012124900","author":"CdnMCG","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-CdnMCG-20221012124900-Indefatigable-20221012024400","replies":["c-CdnMCG-20221012130000-CdnMCG-20221012124900"]}}-->
Another source might be the Canadian heraldry registry, which uses "The" with the same regiments as per the other links that I sent: https://www.gg.ca/en/heraldry/public-register?sort_by=search_api_relevance&sort_order=DESC&items_per_page=96&f%5B0%5D=r_category_tid%3A%225107%22&f%5B1%5D=r_org_parent_category_tid%3A%223521%22&f%5B2%5D=pe_type_tid%3A%221356%22 CdnMCG (talk) 13:00, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221012130000","author":"CdnMCG","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-CdnMCG-20221012130000-CdnMCG-20221012124900","replies":[]}}-->
Support per WP:THE and WP:OFFICIAL. Absolutely. We've managed to eliminate this with British regiments and its use on Canadian regiments has been bugging me for some time. @Labattblueboy: Well done for taking the time to finally bring this to RM. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:44, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221012124400","author":"Necrothesp","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Necrothesp-20221012124400-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","replies":[]}}-->
Support all, per arguments above, including WP:THE and WP:OFFICIAL. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:44, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221015074400","author":"Peacemaker67","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peacemaker67-20221015074400-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","replies":[]}}-->
Support per nom. Shwcz (talk) 15:16, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221015151600","author":"Shwcz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Shwcz-20221015151600-Labattblueboy-20221009191600","replies":[]}}-->

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It doesn't matter if that's what happened with the British Army or if its contrary to Wikipedia's practices. The Canadian Army has not done that so there is no need to do this here. and as CndMCG has shown with the links to the official sources he as provided, what you are doing this contrary to official policy of the Government of Canada, the Canadian Department of National Defence, the Canadian Army and the involved regiments themselves. LordHood2552 (talk) 00:22, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221017002200","author":"LordHood2552","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-LordHood2552-20221017002200-Requested_move_9_October_2022","replies":["c-Necrothesp-20221017100700-LordHood2552-20221017002200"]}}-->
You misunderstand. The British Army likes its capitalised definite articles too. But Wikipedia does not. It doesn't matter...if its contrary to Wikipedia's practices. Of course it does. This is Wikipedia. We are not bound by the policies or desires of any other organisation. We have our own style. Please read WP:OFFICIAL. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:07, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20221017100700","author":"Necrothesp","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Necrothesp-20221017100700-LordHood2552-20221017002200","replies":[]}}-->