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Caves

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propose renaming from distance line to more common guideline

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I would like to propose renaming this article from distance line to the more common term guideline. Thanks --Gene Hobbs (talk) 15:10, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-04-05T15:10:00.000Z","author":"Gene Hobbs","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gene_Hobbs-2009-04-05T15:10:00.000Z-propose_renaming_from_distance_line_to_more_common_guideline","replies":["c-Mark.murphy-2009-04-07T22:19:00.000Z-Gene_Hobbs-2009-04-05T15:10:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've dived in the UK for 20 years and carried 1 on most of those dives but never heard them called "guideline" - only "distance line" or "line" (on a reel). They are multi-purpose. As a recreational diver in the sea I very occasionally use mine as a guideline when entering confined spaces or to return reliably underwater to the shot to start my ascent but I mostly use it for deloying a delayed marker buoy from the seabed or for linking me to my SMB. I have used it for underwater searches and surveys. I do agree "guideline" needs to exist - at least disambiguated on the existing Guideline article. Mark.murphy (talk) 22:19, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-04-07T22:19:00.000Z","author":"Mark.murphy","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Mark.murphy-2009-04-07T22:19:00.000Z-Gene_Hobbs-2009-04-05T15:10:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gene_Hobbs-2009-04-08T00:05:00.000Z-Mark.murphy-2009-04-07T22:19:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks Mark, My questioning of this was because in 17 years in the US, I have only heard the term when surveying. I am biased as a cave diver though and don't really care either way. It is interesting to me that neither term is consistently used on manufacturers web sites:

AP Valves uses distance line and not guideline,
Custom Divers only uses the term line or "reel line" and not either of the other two options,
Dive Rite does not use either term for products but does use guideline in three articles,
Halcyon uses the term guideline,
OMS only uses the term line and not either of the other two options,
Scubapro/ Seemann does not use either term on their site but dive shops seem to use "decompression line" to describe the products.

I did search for the use on UK diving sites as well:

ukdiving.co.uk prefers the term distance line but actually defines the term the first time as, "...distance lines (a guide line to the shot or anchor rope)..."
Yorkshire-Divers has 44 hits for "distance line" and only 19 for "guideline and reel" (search changed for obvious reasons).

Anyway, thanks again! --Gene Hobbs (talk) 00:05, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-04-08T00:05:00.000Z","author":"Gene Hobbs","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gene_Hobbs-2009-04-08T00:05:00.000Z-Mark.murphy-2009-04-07T22:19:00.000Z","replies":["c-RexxS-2009-04-19T16:36:00.000Z-Gene_Hobbs-2009-04-08T00:05:00.000Z"]}}-->

The best title for the article is hard to decide. Maybe "Diving line and reel" would cover all of its uses. My main reel gets used for wreck penetration, short cave excursions, deploying my SMB, circular searches and one or twice for jackstay searches. So it really is a multi-purpose piece of equipment - and that's not counting my secondary reels with fixed length of line on them for measuring. I'm thinking that the line and reel should be considered together, since one without the other usually isn't much use. --RexxS (talk) 16:36, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-04-19T16:36:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-RexxS-2009-04-19T16:36:00.000Z-Gene_Hobbs-2009-04-08T00:05:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Sorry but the article name is still bothering me. Could we consider a more generic "Line (diving)"? Thanks and sorry for bringing this back up. --Gene Hobbs (talk) 03:31, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-05-30T03:31:00.000Z","author":"Gene Hobbs","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gene_Hobbs-2009-05-30T03:31:00.000Z-propose_renaming_from_distance_line_to_more_common_guideline","replies":["c-RexxS-2009-05-30T04:27:00.000Z-Gene_Hobbs-2009-05-30T03:31:00.000Z"]}}-->

I wouldn't object to "Line (diving)", but consider the opening sentence. WP:LEAD wants us to use the article title in the first sentence as far as possible. If it began: "A line used in diving, also known as a distance line, penetration line or guideline is ...", it would be a bit messy. Maybe "A diving line, also know as ..." might work, but then it begs the question, why isn't the article called "Diving line". Because sources tend not to use that, I guess. I don't know, Gene, it bothers me as well.

On further consideration: I think it could be called "Diving reel and line"! Look at Special:WhatLinksHere/Distance line. Just about all of them link to the reel and line as a unit and the redirects for reel are already there. Of course, it would mean expanding the article, but Steve Lewis' essay has loads of good stuff that ought to be in the article - incidentally, it's a controversial external link (because of WP:ELNO number 11, we'd have to show he's a recognized authority without a WP article), and we could make a better case for his opinion as a source since the author has other published works (he refers to his book and to drawings). What do you think? --RexxS (talk) 04:27, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-05-30T04:27:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-RexxS-2009-05-30T04:27:00.000Z-Gene_Hobbs-2009-05-30T03:31:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

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Photos needed

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Some good photos of divers laying line or swimming along line would improve the article. Photos of silt screws, line arrows, cookies, reels of various styles, spools etc in use and carried by divers would also be nice. • • • Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 17:03, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-06-03T17:03:00.000Z","author":"Pbsouthwood","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pbsouthwood-2013-06-03T17:03:00.000Z-Photos_needed","replies":[],"displayName":"Peter (Southwood)"}}-->

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External links modified

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American line sizes

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If anyone has a reliable source defining the American line sizes, please leave a link. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 18:24, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-08-04T18:24:00.000Z","author":"Pbsouthwood","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pbsouthwood-2020-08-04T18:24:00.000Z-American_line_sizes","replies":[],"displayName":"Peter Southwood"}}-->

I found a table in the CMAS Cave Diving training standard.

Caption text
Code	Diameter in metric units [mm]	Diameter in US-units [in]	approx. tensile strength/breaking point (Nylon) [kg]	approx. tensile strength/breaking point (Nylon) [lbs]
#18	1.58	1/16" (0.0625)	65.4	144
#24	1.86	0.073	104	230-250
#36	2.11	0.083	150	330-360
#48	2.48	0.098	182	405-550
1/8“	3.18	0.125	331	728

Probably reliable. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 19:19, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-08-04T19:19:00.000Z","author":"Pbsouthwood","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pbsouthwood-2020-08-04T19:19:00.000Z-American_line_sizes","replies":[],"displayName":"Peter Southwood"}}-->