This page is within the scope of WikiProject Climbing, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Climbing on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ClimbingWikipedia:WikiProject ClimbingTemplate:WikiProject ClimbingClimbing
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The background:transparent included in the styles of the unclosed table at the bottom of {{Wikipedia:WikiProject Climbing/tabsheader}} is causing the body text that follows the header to render as dark-gray-on-black text in dark mode, on the project page. That background:transparent is also unnecessary, and can be removed with no ill effects (but one significant positive effect).
I can be bold and make the necessary change to the "template" code myself, but I wanted to give project members a chance to deal with it before I went mucking with code on project pages. Please fix, or if you'd like me to do it, just say the word. FeRDNYC (talk) 19:28, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240829192800","author":"FeRDNYC","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-FeRDNYC-20240829192800-Unreadable_text_in_dark_mode","replies":["c-Aszx5000-20240831093300-FeRDNYC-20240829192800"]}}-->
I am not able to follow what you are saying, but I trust to you go ahead and do something sensible if the current template is flawed. thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 09:33, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240831093300","author":"Aszx5000","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aszx5000-20240831093300-FeRDNYC-20240829192800","replies":["c-FeRDNYC-20240901210300-Aszx5000-20240831093300"]}}-->
Thanks, I've made the change. Visitors to Wikipedia:WikiProject Climbing should see no differences in light mode, but in dark mode the text in the various page tabs should now be visible. FeRDNYC (talk) 21:03, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240901210300","author":"FeRDNYC","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-FeRDNYC-20240901210300-Aszx5000-20240831093300","replies":[]}}-->
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C0uld we make an effort to clarify the distinctions between free soloing and other forms of solo climbing?
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I'm looking at the ice climbing related articles specifically. I know everything without a rope is "free solo" since the movie and even some of the wider publications are guilty of this, but we could really do with a section which explains the differences and similarities in the relevant articles. 82.0.12.118 (talk) 15:12, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241025151200","author":"82.0.12.118","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-82.0.12.118-20241025151200-C0uld_we_make_an_effort_to_clarify_the_distinctions_between_free_soloing_and_oth","replies":["c-Aszx5000-20241025153700-82.0.12.118-20241025151200"]}}-->
We do have mention of free-solo ice climbing in the free solo climbing article, and we do have mention of free solo climbing milestones in the ice climbing article. The term "free solo" long pre-dates the movie and has been used for decades in ice climbing for rope-free ice climbing. Can you expand on what you are thinking about? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 15:37, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241025153700","author":"Aszx5000","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Aszx5000-20241025153700-82.0.12.118-20241025151200","replies":["c-82.0.12.118-20241025162700-Aszx5000-20241025153700"]}}-->
> We do have mention of free-solo ice climbing in the free solo climbing article, and we do have mention of free solo climbing milestones in the ice climbing article
That's the issue, yes.
> The term "free solo" long pre-dates the movie
Yes, having been doing it myself on and off for the better part of 20 years I can confirm this. That's not the point I was making though, since the film it has widely been used for things that aren't free solo climbing.
> and has been used for decades in ice climbing for rope-free ice climbing
This isn't the case, I've been soloing alpine and ice routes in Scotland for over a decade now. I've never seen anyone call it free soloing. Climbing with crampons and ice tools isn't free climbing, even when done on rock it's dry tooling. It's just called soloing.
I'll post a link to my friends blog who is a far, far more prolific soloist and alpine climber than me. You can see even when he bundles his ice climbing into this "free solo" tag, he still makes it clear to label his ice climbs as solo's, not free solo's like he does on rock. And Dave is a professional climber who is sponsored and climbs some of the most difficult trad climbs in the UK (and probably the world).
I appreciate there maybe be some cultural difference here and it requires a more nuanced explanation than outright one or the other since the film has undoubtably shifted the parlance, but we can certainly do better to explain the intricacies. 82.0.12.118 (talk) 16:27, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241025162700","author":"82.0.12.118","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-82.0.12.118-20241025162700-Aszx5000-20241025153700","replies":["c-Aszx5000-20241025163500-82.0.12.118-20241025162700","c-Aszx5000-20241025163700-82.0.12.118-20241025162700"]}}-->
See my reply, you're mixing up article tags which are used to curate content with the actual content and titles of the articles
You're looking at tags for articles which are used to curate content to attract audience. Please look at the actual titles of the articles with those tags and which ones say only "solo" and which say "free solo". It's very clearly split between ice routes and rock routes.
You can see both from the title of the articles, the captions and even the youtube videos themselves (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5Gcp8hXoPA) and the narration that they're referred to exclusively as solos, not free solos. Which isn't the case for his ropeless ascents on rock which he explicitly calls free solos. 82.0.12.118 (talk) 16:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241025165600","author":"82.0.12.118","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-82.0.12.118-20241025165600-Aszx5000-20241025163500","replies":["c-Aszx5000-20241025170200-82.0.12.118-20241025165600"]}}-->
You might use the term "solo clmbing" to mean "free solo climbing" but that is not what most sources use. And it only confuses things with solo climbing which means a broader set of things? 16:37, 25 October 2024 (UTC) Aszx5000 (talk) 16:37, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241025163700","author":"Aszx5000","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Aszx5000-20241025163700-82.0.12.118-20241025162700","replies":["c-82.0.12.118-20241025170800-Aszx5000-20241025163700"]}}-->
I think there's a bit of misunderstanding going on here. I'm not talking about the term soloing being used instead of free soloing, more that the definition of what free soloing is has been far too broadly applied (which is undoubtably fuelled by publications like climbing magazine using it for engagement.
The "broader set of things" you refer to should include ice climbing without a rope rather than bundling ice climbing in with free soloing. For a big chunk of the climbing community (and I can say with certainty in the UK for example) using ice tools isn't free climbing.
I'm not sure exactly how to tackle "scope creep" like this, but it's something someone should write something about. 82.0.12.118 (talk) 17:08, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241025170800","author":"82.0.12.118","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-82.0.12.118-20241025170800-Aszx5000-20241025163700","replies":["c-Aszx5000-20241025172200-82.0.12.118-20241025170800"]}}-->
All "free solo climbers" are by definition "solo climbers", however in rock climbing and ice climbing, the term free solo climbing is used for solo climbers with zero protection grear. If an ice climber (or rock climbing) is alone but using proection gear, they are solo climbing but not free solo climbing. That is a very important distiction as one is life threathing, the other less so. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:22, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241025172200","author":"Aszx5000","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Aszx5000-20241025172200-82.0.12.118-20241025170800","replies":["c-82.0.12.118-20241025174600-Aszx5000-20241025172200"]}}-->
Yes, solo climbers are the more general, all encompassing term. Which is why it is appropriate here
Free soloing does not just mean climbing alone without protection. It also means free climbing. If you use bolts or other fixed aid to ascend the route you are commonly known to be "soloing". Not "free soloing". The "free" in "free soloing" means free climbing.
"a climb in which a climber uses no artificial aids for support and has no rope or other safety equipment for protection in case of a fall"
Obviously ice climbing is using aid because it requires axes.
Here are a list of incidents from the American Alpine club accident reports involving ice climbers without a rope, you'll notice they all use "soloing" or "ice soloing"
Per the discussion on the ice climbing talk page, the common name for ice climbing without any protection is free solo climbing (as per rock climbing). Where protection is used, it is solo climbing (or more correctly, rope solo climbing). That is the consensus. Your interpritation is a personal one. 19:53, 25 October 2024 (UTC) Aszx5000 (talk) 19:53, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241025195300","author":"Aszx5000","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Aszx5000-20241025195300-82.0.12.118-20241025174600","replies":["c-82.0.12.118-20241025200400-Aszx5000-20241025195300"]}}-->
> the common name for ice climbing without any protection is free solo climbing
Not per the American Alpine Club who publish both the AAJ and the ANAC. There it is explicitly referred to as soloing
> Where protection is used, it is solo climbing
This is totally incorrect, even the soloing page goes against this.
Soloing has been a catch all term for climbing on your own for a long, long time. Before the invention of self arrest belay devices which really enabled you to solo with a rope it was a given this was without a rope. Exceptions to this are named explicitly. Ice soloing, as per the AAC, is soloing on ice routes. Rope soloing is soloing with a rope using a self arrest mechanism. Free soloing is free climbing without the use of aid or protection.
After out discussion I have searched for AAC using 'free solo' in reference to an accident which involves someone climbing with ice climbing equipment or on ice and haven't been able to find one. Every free solo accident has been on rock without dry tools and every solo, ropeless ice accident has been called either soloing or ice soloing. 82.0.12.118 (talk) 20:04, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241025200400","author":"82.0.12.118","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-82.0.12.118-20241025200400-Aszx5000-20241025195300","replies":[]}}-->
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Ben Nevis has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 14:52, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241027145200","author":"Z1720","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Z1720-20241027145200-Good_article_reassessment_for_Ben_Nevis","replies":[]}}-->
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Hello all,
Through AfC, I have just made a new draft for Eric Gilbertson (climber). Gilbertson is a mountaineer aiming to reach the highest mountain in every country in the world.
I have a COI with Eric (as I have talked with him several times on zoom about highpointing). I had previously published an article about him in the main space, but poor sourcing and lots of fluff led to the article being deleted.
However, I have done my best to rewrite the article with less fluff and better sourcing, and reducing reliance on his blog. Gilbertson has had plenty of secondary coverage and interviews with well-known news sources.
Examples: Nat Geo Poland, BBC, The Times, Tages Anzeiger in Switzerland, and Sueddeutsche Zeitung in Germany. He was also mentioned in LA Times and The France 24 Observers.
Gilbertson also has work published in the American Alpine Club. While blogs do not constitute reliable, independent sources, he has been interviewed by Alan Arnette and Francis Tapon. He has also gotten a lot of recent coverage on a Mount Rainier survey he did a few months ago (i.e: Seattle Times, Seattle Met, Newsweek, GearJunkie).
Given my COI, figured I'd pass the baton to you all to determine if this article belongs in the mainspace.
Cheers! KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 00:02, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241127000200","author":"KnowledgeIsPower9281","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KnowledgeIsPower9281-20241127000200-Draft_for_Climber_BLP_Article_with_COI","replies":[]}}-->
