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Qcne (talk) 16:39, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230924163900","author":"Qcne","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Qcne-20230924163900-Your_submission_at_Articles_for_creation:_Mazrek,_Prizren_has_been_accepted","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, I'm Felida97. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Gjonaj, Prizren, but you didn't provide a source. I’ve removed it for now, but if you’d like to include a citation to a reliable source and re-add it, please do so! If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Felida⁹⁷ (talk) 16:47, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230926164700","author":"Felida97","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Felida97-20230926164700-September_2023","replies":["c-TheCreatorOne-20230926165700-Felida97-20230926164700","c-TheCreatorOne-20230926165700-Felida97-20230926164700-1","c-TheCreatorOne-20230926165900-Felida97-20230926164700"]}}-->

I don't have a source for now but will try and find one. But the village name does come from the name Gjon and the suffix -aj is usally added in Albanian names which is used in surnames https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjonaj . So I definitely think it is a mistake even if there is no source TheCreatorOne (talk) 16:57, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230926165700","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20230926165700-Felida97-20230926164700","replies":[]}}-->

See the links I provided for proof TheCreatorOne (talk) 16:57, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230926165700","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20230926165700-Felida97-20230926164700-1","replies":[]}}-->

I agree claims need a source but some things are very obvious but I will try and get a source , some obvious things are never explained in these studies. Thank you for your comment. TheCreatorOne (talk) 16:59, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230926165900","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20230926165900-Felida97-20230926164700","replies":["c-Felida97-20230926172700-TheCreatorOne-20230926165900"]}}-->

(Sorry, I replied to you on my talk page before I saw these messages but you can reply here if you want. To be sure that I see your replies here, you can ping me by starting your reply with {{ping|Felida97}}.)

I replied on my talk page already but I'll just say it again here: Without a source what you're describing is, at best, original research, which is not permitted on Wikipedia (also see WP:V for the other core policy relevant in this case). Felida⁹⁷ (talk) 17:27, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230926172700","author":"Felida97","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Felida97-20230926172700-TheCreatorOne-20230926165900","replies":["c-TheCreatorOne-20230926204100-Felida97-20230926172700"]}}-->

I don't have a source that says the village name comes from there I only have sources that says the name Gjonaj or Gjon is Albanian in origin. Would that be enough ? TheCreatorOne (talk) 20:41, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230926204100","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20230926204100-Felida97-20230926172700","replies":[]}}-->

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Hello @TheCreatorOne, I noticed on some of your recent edits on the Demographic history of Kosovo page that you copied and pasted content from other pages and added content that can be viewed as POV pushing. Given the nature of the topic on hand, it is more advisable to start a talk page discussion to see how content from other pages can be better morphed into the page and discuss opposing viewpoints on the topic of Origin of the Albanians. A talk page discussion can help avoid edit warring and content removal. Please reach out if you need any assistance, myself and almost all editors are generally on hand to help . ElderZamzam (talk) 10:48, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240207104800","author":"ElderZamzam","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ElderZamzam-20240207104800-Demographic_history_of_Kosovo","replies":["c-TheCreatorOne-20240208040700-ElderZamzam-20240207104800","c-TheCreatorOne-20240208041800-ElderZamzam-20240207104800","c-TheCreatorOne-20240208043000-ElderZamzam-20240207104800","c-TheCreatorOne-20240208043500-ElderZamzam-20240207104800"]}}-->

Why did you remove it ?

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/rebels-believers-survivors-9780198857297

This essay examines both the historical facts concerning the migration of Serbs from Kosovo in 1690, and the claims made about that migration by subsequent historians—claims which, at their most extreme, suggested that hundreds of thousands of Serbs departed, with huge effects on the ethnic composition of the region. This essay demonstrates that there was no large-scale organized exodus of Serbs under the Serbian Orthodox Patriarch, Arsenije Crnojević: his departure from Kosovo in early 1690 was extremely hasty, and he had not, in any case, been leading organized resistance to the Ottomans. A large number of Serbs did move with the Patriarch to Hungarian territory later in that year; he himself gave their numbers as 30,000 or 40,000. But they had gathered, from many areas, in the Belgrade region, and only a small proportion were from Kosovo itself. One unsupported claim was made many years later, by a Serbian monk, that the Patriarch had brought 37,000 families to Hungary; and in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries many Serb writers interpreted that figure maximally, while also assuming that all those people had come from Kosovo. This essay analyses the ideological influences (operating primarily on Serbs within the Habsburg territories in the nineteenth century) that helped to shape that interpretation; it also criticizes excessive claims made by modern Albanian and Turkish historians.

As for tribes being settled, mainly few tribes settled in an area that was inhabited by Albanians. Many Serbs moved into this territory later. They came from Serbia, Montenegro from tribes such as Vasojevic etc. You pretty much remove the truth.

You removed this part too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Albanians,_1877%E2%80%931878 , That shows a continuity in the Nish area since the medieval period at least.

And what about this ?

In 1660 Çelebi went to Kosovo and referred to the central part of the region as Arnavud (آرناوود) and noted that in Vushtrri its inhabitants were speakers of Albanian or Turkish and few spoke Bosnian. The highlands around the Tetovo, Peja and Prizren areas Çelebi considered as being the "mountains of Arnavudluk". Çelebi referred to the "mountains of Peja" as being in Arnavudluk (آرناوودلق) and considered the Ibar river that converged in Mitrovica as forming Kosovo's border with Bosnia. He viewed the "Kılab" or Llapi river as having its source in Arnavudluk (Albania) and by extension the Sitnica as being part of that river. Çelebi also included the central mountains of Kosovo within Arnavudluk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evliya_%C3%87elebi

What persecution of Serbs  ? The people that were persecuted were Muslims and Catholic Albanians that revolted. This territory was inhabited by Albanians even back then.

Even the Llapi region in North-East Kosovo was Albanian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llapi_River

Prishtina, Peja, Prizren, Gjakova, most of the towns in Kosovo were Albanian, the western and central part too.

So how is it relevant that some tribes were expelled into the area from what is today Albania ? they took part in the revolt too, what is the point of mentioning this ? And since when were Serbs the victims in this revolt or the leaders ?

Also it should be allowed to mention the continuity of Albanians here since the medieval period,why is that removed ? One can rewrite it better I guess. TheCreatorOne (talk) 04:07, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240208040700","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20240208040700-ElderZamzam-20240207104800","replies":[]}}-->

My issue is not only with the entire page but even with the whole 17th century events which is completely manipulation of the facts, let's begin there, why don't we, can you show me evidence of persecution of Serbs ? The people that revolted were Albanians and the territory was inhabited by Albanians according to the author and even the demographics.

" Of course, where a place was still inhabited, its population may have been reduced; of those who had stayed in their homes, some were killed by the Tatar and Ottoman forces in early 1690, and some were taken away as slaves. Epidemics also took many lives. But most of these factors could have affected all parts of the population, regardless of ethnic-linguistic or religious identity; and if the Ottomans did seek out particular groups for specially harsh treatment, they would have targeted above all the Catholics (co-religionists of the Austrians), most of whom were ethnically Albanian. (The Catholic population of Kosovo, said to be roughly 1,000 households—well over 5,000 people—by Bogdani in the early 1680s, was estimated at 2,800 people in 1693.)*” The only major factor that might have led to a greater decline in the Serb population overall is the fact that the eastern areas, from which—as the statistics of those villages show—flight had been comparatively easy, had a population containing a higher proportion of Orthodox Slavs. But on the other hand there is evidence of a quite large drop in the population of the towns, most of which did not regain their pre-1690 levels until the nineteenth century; and the towns—of which this part of the Balkans possessed an unusually dense network—were overwhelmingly populated by Muslim Albanians. (Jovan Cviji¢s claims about the departure of 35-40,000 Serb families from Kosovo were implausible not only on numerical grounds, but also because he described those families as mostly urban.)**"

"Given the facts we have considered, the claim that Kosovo was emptied of its Serb population would seem plausible only if that population had been remarkably small in the first place, or geographically limited to villages in the area between Trepca, Vushtrri and Prishtina. Serb historiography is reluctant—rightly—to endorse either of those views. The claim about ‘emptying’ is also hard to reconcile with the claim that another large exodus of Serbs took place in 1737 (though the two are sometimes blithely combined). Above all, it is difficult to reconcile with all the evidence that suggests that Kosovo did not acquire an Albanian ethnic majority until some time in the middle decades of the nineteenth century. If the Serb population really was massively and disproportionately depleted in 1690, then it looks as if it must have been restored by substantial inflows of Serbs from other areas. In fact some such flows did happen, over time, from many directions; there was also a steady influx of Albanians, mostly from the nearby Malési; but these were slow, long-term processes, neither of them involving any sudden surge of population into a vacuum."

Please enlighten me on how is the history that you are trying to tell correct regarding the 1690 events ?

https://archive.org/details/rebels-believers-survivors-studies-in-the-history-of-the-albanians-malcolm-noel-2020/page/142/mode/1up TheCreatorOne (talk) 04:18, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240208041800","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20240208041800-ElderZamzam-20240207104800","replies":[]}}-->

Also for example the Gashi tribe from Northern Albania that revolted were expelled in an area that had already been inhabited by Albanians , the Llapi region:

"During the Austro-Turkish War of 1683-1699, the Gashi and the other Catholic tribes of the area supported the Austrians, and were therefore punished by the Ottomans after the defeat of the Austrians. In the years 1690-1693, the village of Gash was burned down by the Pasha of Peja and its population was expelled to the Llap region in Kosovo. Nonetheless, some families either returned to their original territories or escaped persecution, as in 1693-1697, the Gash villages of Luzhë and Botushë appear in documents. In 1716, the Gashi tribe, along with the Kelmendi, Pult, Shala and Mirdita tribal regions, were targeted by a punitive operation carried out by Tahir Pasha of Dukagjin."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gashi_(tribe)

So care to explain why you specifically remove the content that the towns were mainly Albanian , the western and central parts and the Llapi region ? And where is the evidence of a mass exodus of Serbs and only settlement of Albanians ? In fact many Serbs moved into this territory after these events as noted by the author above too. TheCreatorOne (talk) 04:30, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240208043000","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20240208043000-ElderZamzam-20240207104800","replies":[]}}-->

Here for example many Serbs moved into Kosovo after 1690:

"Thirdly, the idea that a fixed but gradually eroded Serb population was swamped by a tide of Albanian immigration is misleadingly schematic. There was flux and emigration, settlement and resettlement, in all sectors of the population. Waves of Orthodox people also migrated into Kosovo: the forced migration of one body of Vasojevic clansmen has already been mentioned, and a large group of Orthodox Vlachs, most of whom would eventually be assimilated into the Serbian Orthodox population, came in the 1770s. (These will be discussed in Chapter 11.) Just as Catholic Albanian highlanders moved into Kosovo from the Malesi, so Orthodox Slav ones from the mountains of Montenegro moved into the Sandzak of Novi Pazar; from there, many also spread into northern Kosovo. Members of all the Montenegrin clans took part in this population drift, though they tended to be lumped together under the clanname 'Vasojevic'. 68 Their reasons for moving were just the same as those of the Albanians: a search for better land or grazing, and a desire to escape from vendettas."

https://archive.org/details/kosovo-a-short-history_202104/page/n275/mode/1up

So care to explain why the entire page is set up to make it look like Serbs are the victims and Albanians a people that settled?

And no there is no evidence of Serbs in Dardania until the 12th-13th century, the quote by so called Serbs that Albanians came there in the 11th century is nothing but speculation because Serbs did not inhabit this territory then. Such claims need proof. TheCreatorOne (talk) 04:35, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240208043500","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20240208043500-ElderZamzam-20240207104800","replies":[]}}-->

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Hello!

I'd recommend you stop reverting users, even if you are right. This can and is used against you right now at the admin's venue. You need to open discussions (which you did) and ping the users with an @. If no response follows, you should take the matter to the admins.

Hope that helps. AlexBachmann (talk) 23:16, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240210231600","author":"AlexBachmann","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AlexBachmann-20240210231600-Kosovo","replies":[]}}-->

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nice work

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Good start

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Hello,

I came across this edit of yours, why exactly was the content about Albanian toponyms removed?

Hope I can understand. Thanks AlexBachmann (talk) 21:14, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240909211400","author":"AlexBachmann","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AlexBachmann-20240909211400-Deletion_of_content","replies":["c-TheCreatorOne-20240910125200-AlexBachmann-20240909211400","c-TheCreatorOne-20240910125800-AlexBachmann-20240909211400"]}}-->

You can add it again regarding the Albanian toponyms or rephrase it if you like but some villages are mentioned in that 1452 register within the area of Prizren which I also added TheCreatorOne (talk) 12:52, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240910125200","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20240910125200-AlexBachmann-20240909211400","replies":[]}}-->

I just thought that i'd add also the 1452 register for some villages within the vicinity of Prizren as they attest to an Albanian population too in addition with the 9 Albanian villages that were mentioned in 1348. But as Pulaha mentions there are also other toponyms , you can add it back again. TheCreatorOne (talk) 12:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240910125800","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20240910125800-AlexBachmann-20240909211400","replies":["c-AlexBachmann-20240910212600-TheCreatorOne-20240910125800"]}}-->

Yeah another user reverted you, I think it's up to you both to reach an agreement.

Thanks, and t'fala, AlexBachmann (talk) 21:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20240910212600","author":"AlexBachmann","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-AlexBachmann-20240910212600-TheCreatorOne-20240910125800","replies":[]}}-->

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's no original research policy by adding your personal analysis or synthesis into articles, you may be blocked from editing. Also, if you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced content, as you did at Nish page, you may be blocked from editing.Theonewithreason (talk) 17:07, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241104170700","author":"Theonewithreason","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Theonewithreason-20241104170700-November_2024","replies":["c-TheCreatorOne-20241105052200-Theonewithreason-20241104170700","c-TheCreatorOne-20241105054600-Theonewithreason-20241104170700"]}}-->

These are not my personal analysis or synthesis but the toponyms and documents do indicate an Albanian population there since the Late Medieval period, which is also what Maleschrieber pointed out. They are not poorly sourced just in a different language, I tried to find better sources or in English. And these toponyms are not from Albanians in the 18th century but from the medieval period

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbana%C5%A1ka_(Prokuplje)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbana%C5%A1ka_River

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbana%C5%A1ka_Mountain

Etc etc. which is why I also added it in the medieval section. It might however not be that relevant to the page itself so maybe it might aswell be removed. But I don't understand what is your problem ? There has clearly been an Albanian population there since the medieval period... until their expulsion in the 19th century.

When have I supposedly added my personal analysis or synthesis in any articles ? Care to point it out please ? TheCreatorOne (talk) 05:22, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105052200","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20241105052200-Theonewithreason-20241104170700","replies":["c-TheCreatorOne-20241105053400-TheCreatorOne-20241105052200"]}}-->

Don't come here and accuse me of things I have not done, please. Most of my edits have sources and are backed up by historical evidence, it's different from using a source but where the claim still has no evidence but is an invention which is similar to a personal theory or invented theory but with a source such as the supposed Great Migration of Serbs 1690 as mentioned by one of the users in the talk page, this is an invention of course as pointed out by Malcolm: https://academic.oup.com/book/37426/chapter-abstract/331513844?redirectedFrom=fulltext . I can see we disagree on the Nish part, but other than that , when have I supposedly added my personal theories ? Don't accuse me of such things.

In Nish and Toplica there has clearly been an Orthodox Albanian population since the medieval period, these are not personal analysis but backed up with evidence and toponyms. TheCreatorOne (talk) 05:34, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105053400","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20241105053400-TheCreatorOne-20241105052200","replies":["c-TheCreatorOne-20241105053700-TheCreatorOne-20241105053400"]}}-->

And you're the one who removed it when I added it in the medieval section, I don't see what's wrong with adding such a thing to the medieval or Ottoman section since that's when they date to.... There has been an Albanian population there since then at least which is why it was added to the medieval period of the page. How on earth are these supposed to be personal theories ? I mean, this has been done for every other town too in any other wiki page too TheCreatorOne (talk) 05:37, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105053700","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20241105053700-TheCreatorOne-20241105053400","replies":[]}}-->

If you continue to do the same thing you might be blocked from editing wikipedia too, you removed what I added when what I added was for the medieval period, the discussion me and Maleschrieber had was for the Roman period, they are not toponyms from the Roman period as pointed out by Maleschrieber but they do date to the Late medieval period - early Ottoman period as also pointed out by him. If it's well sourced I don't see what would be the problem with adding such evidence about a medieval Albanian population there ? You simply misinterpreted the discussion me and him had earlier which was for a different period. As for personal theories/analysis and whatnot , these are just baseless accusations. Are you a Serb by any chance ? Just so I know who I am dealing with here. TheCreatorOne (talk) 05:46, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105054600","author":"TheCreatorOne","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheCreatorOne-20241105054600-Theonewithreason-20241104170700","replies":[]}}-->

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Theonewithreason (talk) 07:53, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241105075300","author":"Theonewithreason","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Theonewithreason-20241105075300-ANI_3","replies":[]}}-->

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An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Niš, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Albanian.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 07:55, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241130075500","author":"DPL bot","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DPL_bot-20241130075500-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_November_30","replies":[],"displayName":"Opt-out instructions"}}-->

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Niš. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.Theonewithreason (talk) 08:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241130085200","author":"Theonewithreason","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Theonewithreason-20241130085200-November_2024_2","replies":[]}}-->