Hi Skookum1, and a warm welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you have enjoyed editing as much as I did so far and decide to stay. Unfamiliar with the features and workings of Wikipedia? Don't fret! Be Bold! Here's some good links for your reference and that'll get you started in no time!
Editing tutorial, learn to have fun with Wikipedia. Picture tutorial, instructions on uploading images. How to write a great article, to make it an featured article status. Manual of Style, how articles should be written.
Most Wikipedians would prefer to just work on articles of their own interest. But if you have some free time to spare, here are some open tasks that you may want to help out :
RC Patrol - Keeping a lookout for vandalism. Cleanup - Help make unreadable articles readable. Requests - Wanted on WP, but hasn't been created. Merge - Combining duplicate articles into one. Wikiprojects - So many to join, so many to choose from...Take your pick!
Oh yes, don't forget to sign when you write on talk pages, simply type four tildes, like this: ~~~~. This will automatically add your name and the time after your comments. And finally, if you have any questions or doubts, don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Once again, welcome! =)
- Mailer Diablo 08:10, 28 October 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-10-28T08:10:00.000Z","author":"Mailer diablo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mailer_diablo-2005-10-28T08:10:00.000Z-Welcome!","replies":[]}}-->
Hi Skookum: Like I said on the BC talk page, be bold! Go ahead and make edits, that's what wikipedia is about. I had never made the connection between Siwash and sauvage even though English is my tird (superfluous "h" omitted) language, thanks. :-) However, the etymologies of sauvage and sauver are quite different. Sauvage comes from the latin silva which means forest or bush; for comparison, it's selvaggio in Italian. Sauver comes from salveo (salvere in the infinitive) in Latin, "to be in good health". Quite different meanings, but French has so many homonyms that it can get confusing. It's almost as hard to spell as English. BTW, French does have proper nouns that are capitalized, like names of people, countries, provinces, etc. It just doesn't have proper adjectives. So one would write Canada or Colombie-Britannique, someone from Canada would be un Canadien, or from BC un Colombien. Adjectives, on the other hand, are never capitalised. So it would be l'histoire canadienne. Cheers. 05:05, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
I'll recant the thing about sauvage, then; seemed like a good idea at the time, though (smiley). Interesting that the Latin for "to save" (as in salvation) would come from such a different root than the Greek sozo. That aside, the thing about capitalization and the name of BC was something WE (British Columbians) were taught in school, and was a bit of a bone of contention back in the 1970s. Have French spelling standards changed in the meantime or did we just have red-herring attitudes among our French teachers?? (mine was from Toulouse, not Tadoussac, dat's for sure).
Skookum1 08:30, 2 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-02T08:30:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2005-11-02T08:30:00.000Z-Sauvages_canadiens","replies":["c-Luigizanasi-2005-11-02T18:15:00.000Z-Skookum1-2005-11-02T08:30:00.000Z"]}}-->
Well, all I know is C.C. is a whole lot tastier than C.B. In fact, I'm not sure you can even eat radio crystals . . . . and they certainly won't get you drunk! The Colombie-Canadienne thing was (annoyingly) in vogue back in the early '80s. What its coinage and usage demonstrate is a lack of understanding of how BC got its name, or in fact any sort of respect for BC's history at all, or for the nature of the place; but that's Quebec for you (no offense, if you're a Quebecker - the last being a term for which I would be castigated, i.e. not using quebecois, but the reality is that quebecois is an French term, Quebecker a long-standing English/anglo-canadian one. Long digression, and this isn't a usenet group, so I'll leave off.
Skookum1 02:58, 3 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-03T02:58:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2005-11-03T02:58:00.000Z-Les_Colombies_variantes","replies":[]}}-->
Thanks for the note. I haven't lived in Seton Portage for more than a decade and I now make my home near Boston, USA. As for the incident with police, it took place on the road in front of the band hall and is fairly close to how you describe it. I was actually there when it happened and I delivered the videotape to CBC and BCTV news that showed the dogs attacking the protesters on their own land. I was in the BCTV news studio for an interview when it was broadcast and all hell broke loose. I met with Van der Zalm a few weeks later. It was certainly an interesting time. I don't recall the French RCMP, but the members of the band were using their native language on a mobile communications network I helped set up, kind of like in the movie Windtalkers. Dtaw2001 20:35, 4 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-04T20:35:00.000Z","author":"Dtaw2001","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dtaw2001-2005-11-04T20:35:00.000Z-Seton_Portage_Discussion","replies":[]}}-->
I really enjoyed the additions you made to the Chinook wind article. I think of this as a little "bonus" for doing some wikification (making words into links). Since it's on my watch list, I got to see the real work done by people who actually know something about the subject. Thanks again.—GraemeMcRaetalk 19:27, 5 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-05T19:27:00.000Z","author":"GraemeMcRae","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GraemeMcRae-2005-11-05T19:27:00.000Z-Chinook_wind","replies":[]}}-->
P.S. regarding the comment you made in the talk page about possibly being too "chatty", I don't think so. I'm a chatty writer, too, and so I appreciate the style, which tends to make subjects more accessible to all readers. Some wikipedians view some articles as too chatty, so the "de-chatify" it, which is fine. Better to have a chatty (but factual and cited) story than none at all.—GraemeMcRaetalk 19:34, 5 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-05T19:34:00.000Z","author":"GraemeMcRae","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GraemeMcRae-2005-11-05T19:34:00.000Z-Chinook_wind","replies":[]}}-->
Hi. I have noticed you adding some categories to mountain articles. Note that parent categories should not also be added to an article existing in a child category. For example, if an article is in Category:Mountains of British Columbia, do not also place it into Category:Mountains of Canada. Also, do not place mountains into Category:Mountaineering. If we followed that convention, there would probably be over 700 mountains in that category which is of little value. See Wikipedia:Categorization for further information. RedWolf 05:35, 8 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-08T05:35:00.000Z","author":"RedWolf","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-RedWolf-2005-11-08T05:35:00.000Z-Categories","replies":[]}}-->
Didn't know that about Categories, the parent-child thing; but I started doing it because I'd noticed entries that DID have both (can't remember which at present, Waddington maybe) and also because the Mountains Ranges of Canada list looked a little on the thin side; is it only for mountains which are in provinces that don't have a "Mountain Ranges of XXXa" Category going on?
The ten or twelve peaks I put the "mountaineering" thing on today are major mountaineerin objectives. e.g. Monarch, Queen Bess, Monmouth (actually forbidden to climb, but...), Garibaldi etc. I recently workeed with the Canadian Mountain Encyclopedia for a while (http://bivouac.com) and charted thousands of unnamed peaks, never mind thousands of named ones, that wouldn't make any mountaineer sit up and take notice; unless he were to climb them first. Anyway, was only meaning to put the Mountaineers category in mountaineering-significant mountains, not every mountain; same with Sir Sandford and Sir Wilfrid Laurier (the highest in the Selkirks and Cariboos, respectively).Skookum1 07:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-08T07:19:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2005-11-08T07:19:00.000Z-Categories_and_Mountaineers","replies":[]}}-->
Hey Skookum,
Nice tidbit on Quantrill. I wanted to warn you, though, not to forget to add that reference--there've been some minor POV wars over the page in the past and it would be good to make sure everything's referenced there. Keep up the good work! --Dvyost 00:39, 15 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-15T00:39:00.000Z","author":"Dvyost","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dvyost-2005-11-15T00:39:00.000Z-Quantrill","replies":[]}}-->
Good work on Coast Chilcotin, Skookum. I have made some suggested changes to bring it in line with other articles. Here are some tips:
Riding articles generally use only the riding name as the title, unless the riding name could be confused with something else, and then "(electoral district) is added. Usually with hyphenated riding names, there is no danger of confusion, so "(electoral district)" is not needed. But if there were a riding named "Kelowna", for example, "(electoral district)" is added to distinguish the article about the riding from the article about the town.
Another thing is that because Elections Canada uses an em dash (—) instead of a hyphen (-) to connect different geographical names, the riding articles also follow that convention, so we have Coast—Capilano, not Coast-Capilano.
Keep up the good work. If you have any questions, drop me a line on my talk page. Ground Zero | t 17:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-23T17:06:00.000Z","author":"Ground Zero","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ground_Zero-2005-11-23T17:06:00.000Z-Riding_articles","replies":[]}}-->
Your comments on my talk page:
Hey! If there are any tpoics you'd like to bring back from the archived discussions, feel free to cut & paste them back into the main talk page! <font color="#2e8b57">Peregrine</font>[[User_talk:PeregrineAY|<font color=#006400><sub><sup>AY</sup></sub></font>]] 01:19, 24 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-24T01:19:00.000Z","author":"PeregrineAY","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-PeregrineAY-2005-11-24T01:19:00.000Z-Vancouver_talk","replies":[],"displayName":"<font color=\"#2e8b57\">Peregrine<\/font>"}}-->
What archived discussions? Not sure how to find them. PS have you seen my list of BC-isms in the talk page of Canadian English?Skookum1 01:32, 24 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-24T01:32:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2005-11-24T01:32:00.000Z-Vancouver_talk","replies":[]}}-->
Hi Skookum1,
If you want to turn a page into a redirect, it is VERY important that you use the move feature to move the original page to its new location. Copy-paste edits kill off the edit history, and it is a lot of hard work for an administrator to fix the problem afterwards. Snottygobble | Talk 02:34, 24 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-24T02:34:00.000Z","author":"Snottygobble","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Snottygobble-2005-11-24T02:34:00.000Z-Sir_George_Murray","replies":[]}}-->
Well, I need descriptions for maps, obviously. The problem with BC is, that I don't know very much about its municipal boundary history, or possess the maps to review it. With Ontario, I have all the resources necessary to make maps. However, I can give it a try. Just let me know which riding you want, and a description of its boundaries. -- Earl Andrew - talk 05:27, 24 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-24T05:27:00.000Z","author":"Earl Andrew","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Earl_Andrew-2005-11-24T05:27:00.000Z-Maps","replies":[]}}-->
OK; basics on the first riding follows, and a lengthy explanation of certain online map resources:
Coast Chilcotin's boundary description is bizarre in its length, but I'm familiar with this kind of thing from an infrastructure project at the Canadian Mountain Encylopedia which I'd been a volunteer editor at for a few years. The head guy there has this thing about "boundary walks", for ranges and regions and such, as well as detailed boundary points (in format bp=latitude/longitude and place name) and . . . well, let's just say I've "walked" a good part of North America, and of certain areas in detail within British Columbia. 45,000 peaks, 25,000 cols, thousands of miles and rivers and coastlines plotted, and I'm still sane (well, almost).
So I'm familiar with the turf and better do my part to start you up; or you'll be hopelessly lost in there without me or someone to guide you, or lots of time for a steep geographic learning/memory curve. So I'll make a rough outline myself, using Basemap, following the placenames (most of which I already know, and I have a general idea of the boundary; it's just a question of which communities and creekbasins are in or out, so I can almost handdraw it, really sloppily though, once I get and idea what's in and out; it's finding those obscure coastal bays and "heights of ground" that you have to know the terrain for, or have an idea where it's supposed to end up at least; and finding the main lat-longs; and whether Quesnel's in or not, and exactly which side of 100 Mile and Big Bar the boundary passed on and the like; once I've got that done you'll have a chart of the route, and you can use a blank digital map drawn from Basemap (there's a way to extract the image's TRIM data that it's generated from; I'll ask them how to get at it).
I'm not good at making maps look pretty; unless I use various copyrighted sources, including what follows, but I have a pretty good idea out what's out there in the way of data sources on-line:
The latter is much more complicated and detailed - and a bit harder to figure out - than the former, which it's supposed to supersede but they've been online together for over four years now. The American equivalent is Topozone but it's a lot clunkier and there are a few new free digital-map sources coming up; GoogleMap can't be this detailed, I don't think; don't know much about their dataset but I'd be surprised given what I've seen of GoogleWorld. Maybe with bigger processers and storage but I dunno; that amount of data, more detail than Bivouac or Peakbagger and interlain with point-information sets, including moment-by-moment potentially the way they're talking/hyping. But why? Why not just have real nature, instead of a digital copy of it? Ah well, but it's fun to make drawings from anyway, no matte what the google lords have in mind...
Point is it takes a while to learn how to use Basemap/LDRWC; easiest things for you to know right off other than the intuitive buttons along the top of the map are the unintuitive ones. "Find Location" is the most immediate thing for you to know The coloured bars are "drill down" and will summon up elevation and datasource and date and such if you click on contour lines or on contour-points (little x's), and whether it's icefield or swamp or water etc. Most of the other buttons should be fairly obvious; of the two tools at right one measures area and one measures distance; the result is a string of data points in one of two formats; the finer the scale you'll get down to seconds of latlong, from about 1:80,000 up it's minutes only.
Bivouac has a parser for these data compilations into their data format, but it seems easier enough to do (can't remember if the parser is public; think it's on an editors-only page).
And so it's not just all names on a map or dataset, check out some images from the area:http://www.cayoosh.net which is my own site (gotta get a proper Userpage written sooner or later).Skookum1 07:33, 24 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-24T07:33:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2005-11-24T07:33:00.000Z-Coast_Chilcotin_map","replies":["c-Earl_Andrew-2005-11-25T02:36:00.000Z-Skookum1-2005-11-24T07:33:00.000Z"]}}-->
You'll also notice when you move the mouse around the map you get the precise latitude and longitude; when you click on it with the information tool on you get the precise latlong; depends on how far you in on the scale setting how precise it will be. If you have the plus-sign tool on you can click and drag an area, which is the quickest way to zoom in when you know when you're going (rather than do one enlarge-click after another and have to wait for it to reload each time; the alternative is at the bottom left, where you can type in the scale you want and go there right away instead of waiting through successive clickings; fine-grain contours start at 1:79,999 and go down from there ("larger"); that rate's slightly different on the LDRWC. But for map-drawing you'll need smaller-scale maps than that; in the 1:2,500,000 range somewhere I think to cover all of Coast Chilcotin (it's vast and has squiggly boundaries because of the terrain).
There are other digital things I have around that are public domain, though; I'll look up the links and get back to you later. Some are hillshadow maps, with contours shown by light only, and there's the DEMS digital-point sets which you can download from some federal site somewhere; you need a map-renderer to translate them into points; one guy in the prominence theory online community developed a program called WinProm that interpolates TRIM data or DEMS into contour maps or whatever you want to do; essentially three-dimensional model of the topography. The hillshades will make cool foundations for maps; I tried "painting" them but I got no good map colouring skills (like, which end of the crayon is the sharp one,'n stuff) and the results weren't good. So since you've already familiar with Wiki standards if you're willing to do it, all the better. I tried putting maps on Chichagof Island, Baranof Island, Queen Charlotte Islands and Alaska Panhandle and maybe one or two others, using something I found in WikiCommons, but they're not very good; I'd like to do some for the coastal iceaps from BC on up, but the it's been Basemap I've been trying to use. I guess should have been looking at the hillshade stuff, but again I can't digitally-draw very well, and I don't have a good sense of illustrative colour, although of course I know where things are and where the placenames should go; just not how to make them look pleasing. I know what maps are needed, and what should be on them; I just can't draw them well.
The thing I worked on at Bivouac involved the plotting of the prominence relationships of all mountains and their "key saddles" or "cols" with more than 300m of prominence. What cols are is the highest of all the ridge-lines ("lines of prominence") leading to the next-higher peak, which in Bivouac's terminology is a line parent; I can't remember the term used by the American groups (Peakbagger and [1]) who first developed prominence as a pasttime and form a semis-cientific research community; Bivouac by comparison is a climbing and outdoors community with a lot of people with geographic interest and map-use ability and not a few programmers. The U.S. sites also contain data, and links to other sites, giving prominence data for Europe, Asia, and so on and further discussions on prominence stuff; their key thing is access at least to topographic maps and elevation data, whether visual or digital There are lots of other mountain and outdoors sites but none are so extensive or thorough as Bivouac, Peakbagger and Prominence.org in plotting comprehensive indexes of North American (incl. Mexican) summits and their key passes, higher mountains, regional relationships, and other completely useless but also fascinating detail.
Well, not completely useless, which is why I brought it up. Unlike the DEMS data, which is more detailed - but because it is so, it is also difficult to process rapid, complex large-scale calculations such as Bivouac functions on; so Bivouac needs a less fine-grain but also focussed interpretation of the landform. As a result, an obscure and impossibly large calculation of the algorithm giving the shape of the North American continent's surface against sea level, i.e. the volume of the continent, would be theoretically possible, at least on a much more easily calculations-needed rate than for the totality of DEMS data; and the topographically-plotted prominence data extends into areas not covered by DEMS anyway. Useful? I dunno; seems like it might be; precise measurements of mass, coastline, and so on; maybe even being able to measure it in real time using satellite interfeeds (GPS conversion is already in place on all sites mentioned). Pretty esoteric but the data set is there; if some earnest Wikipedia cartographer with digital skills wants to take a stab at writing a Wiki map-renderer using DEMS or TRIM, I'm sure the guys at prominence.org or peakbagger would help you with the data (I don't have the TRIM stuff they do; only the Basemap stuff and a few other sites I haven't played much with yet).
Other than the hillshade and DEMS stuff I think I've got some other digital data here of some kind, but can't remember what. As with all of the above it's probably best if we correspond by email so you can receive rough mapimages and digital data from me directly; I'll post some linked stuff here but if you want to email use the email link at http://www.cayoosh.net and replace the _at_ appropriately.Skookum1 06:42, 24 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-24T06:42:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2005-11-24T06:42:00.000Z-Utility_of_DEMS_and_TRIM_data?","replies":[]}}-->
Bivouac is also a growing index of towns and placenames, although that is not its primary purpose.
sorry, that was not based on anything in particular. I just saw an anonymous edit that didn't look completely legitimate, and I changed it. You seem to know more about Vancouver than I do, so I will defer to you. Thanks, and see you around the wiki, :-) --Alhutch 22:52, 24 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-24T22:52:00.000Z","author":"Alhutch","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Alhutch-2005-11-24T22:52:00.000Z-Vancouver","replies":[]}}-->
Thanks for cleaning up the article. Although I don't have a specific interest in that article, I do have an interest in Canadian geographical articles in general; I've edited almost every one at some point in time, ususally to add a stub notice, a category, a cleanup tag, or to do the cleanup myself.
So long as the article flows well, is wikified, and isn't an amorphous blob (as this one was when I tagged it), I'd consider it "clean". It should also respect Wikipedia's Manual of Style. I've made a few minor changes to the article, and removed the tag. By the way: excellent work! Mindmatrix 15:44, 26 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-26T15:44:00.000Z","author":"Mindmatrix","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mindmatrix-2005-11-26T15:44:00.000Z-Lillooet","replies":[]}}-->
Hi Skookum, Sorry for not answering sooner, but life has been interfering with Wikipedia in the last couple of days. I don't know much about templates and colours to used in them. I have vague memories of some discussion taking place in Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board in the past. However, the best place to bring up the question about defunct party colours is in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Electoral districts in Canada. The people designed the templates and colours mostly participate there. Luigizanasi 17:17, 27 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-27T17:17:00.000Z","author":"Luigizanasi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Luigizanasi-2005-11-27T17:17:00.000Z-Colour_codewords_for_obsolete_political_parties?","replies":[]}}-->
Thank you for participating in this Wikiproject. I have read your comments on the project. In the future please place your comments on the subpages linked on that mainpage, such as Wikipedia:WikiProject Electoral districts in Canada/Election results and Wikipedia:WikiProject Electoral districts in Canada/Demographics. Right now the project is still at a designing phase wherein a prototype article is being designed. I am using Langley (electoral district) and a few (random) others to experiment. Please use the resources available at the Wikiproject and design a prototype article yourself. I would like to know how you envision a page to look like. --maclean25 04:50, 28 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-28T04:50:00.000Z","author":"Maclean25","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Maclean25-2005-11-28T04:50:00.000Z-Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Electoral_districts_in_Canada","replies":[]}}-->
Skookum, you've made a great start. I took a look at Yale (provincial electoral district) and made various edits. Most of the edits related to fixing the links. NDP and CCF do not get you very close to British Columbia New Democratic Party. I'd recommend using the latter. Conservative Party of Canada is not the correct link for the British Columbia Conservative Party. The general election article titles following the format "British Columbia general election, yyyy" whre "yyyy" is the year. If you use ===sub-title=== for a section heading, Wikipedia automatically generates a tables of contents. this is a bit of a problem where you've put the election sub-heading in a table for some of the elections, which then don't appear in the table of contents. I have suggested using '''sub-heading''' instead to avoid this. And one last thing, the Wikipedia style is to capitalize only the first word of of a sub-heading in an article (same for article names) unless the words are proper nouns, e.g., ==See also==, not ==See Also==. Similarly, the usual style is to write "general election", not "General Election". Keep up the great work. Ground Zero | t 04:02, 29 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-29T04:02:00.000Z","author":"Ground Zero","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ground_Zero-2005-11-29T04:02:00.000Z-Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Electoral_districts_in_Canada","replies":[]}}-->
Will study the above when I can focus on it, but also wanted to ask you to please drop by the Talk page at Comox; I'm not sure how to approach the disambig thing. Should I just do what was done for Nanaimo - where the city gets the main page and there's a blurb/link to other Nanaimos (I added the second blurb/link electoral district thing there and, um, created an intermediary unofficial disambig page - since there's so many of them); but on the case of Comox is goes to the people/language; I guess a straightforward disambig link could go there to all possible Comoxes (Comox is actually a very nice place) disambig page. It used to be like that with Lillooet, but since there was a St'at'imc article already I directed native-culture stuff over that way, other than via the Lillooet Tribal Council which appears on the main Lillooet disambig page; true enough that in Nanaimo's case the Sneneymux have never called themselves the Nanaimo people; Nanaimo is purely an anglicization, like Kitsilano (Q'ahtsahlahno, "August Jack" if you're talking about the guy). What I'm looking for is some kind of logic on this, if there needs to be. Some names it's obvious (Kitsilano, if spelled that way) but in the case of Comox it's not; the word has both meanings, and familiarly so. Same situation with Lillooet or Tshilhqot'in/Chilcotin and I know I'll run intop it again; BC has a linguistic alter ego and it's a sensitive issue to do right, IMO. What that is I'm not sure.
Comox is an electoral-district issue as to what to do with multiple ridings with the same word/name in it; when there's an existing page about something else entirely; and then there's the town page, which is equally important as also having a Canadian Forces air base. Recently I got my hands spanked (lightly) for turning something into a disambig because it screws up editors archives and monitoring; so I'm not sure what to do when I run into a "listing" problem. I know there's a procedure for this kind of thing? i.e. coming up with a standard strategy?
Are you also the kind of Wikian who can address the "historical provincial electoral districts" thing I've been onto; don't know if you'd see my notes; basic idea is to designate them as a subcategory of "British Columbia provincial electoral districts" (category) so there's no confusion when people are hunting around for their own/current.
And speaking of categories, is it possible to put categories on Talk pages?? What I'm wondering is if we had a way of linking a given riding's talk page to a "category" that was a bulletin board of current editing and questions relating to the site the talk page is attached to; so there's a common "category" page where the 15 or so people (so far) working on the electoral districts thing can come looking for comment or input or help/questions. I've left notes on talk pages attached to ridings or disambigs here and there because it was stuff that related to why whatever was on the front page; some of them are just plain "well, I did the best that I could, hope that's OK".
Whatever; I gotta go to bed. Got Victoria City (provincial) started but I gotta get up at 5:15 (it's 11:00pm)Skookum1 06:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-11-30T06:26:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2005-11-30T06:26:00.000Z-Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Electoral_districts_in_Canada","replies":["c-Ground_Zero-2005-11-30T14:09:00.000Z-Skookum1-2005-11-30T06:26:00.000Z"]}}-->
Yeah, almost all Wikipedia articles about ethnic groups either have an "s" at the end of it (such as Frisians) or have the word "people" in it without the parentheses, such as Irish people, Welsh people, French people, Japanese people, Tibetan people, etc. I have noticed, however, that most articles about Native American tribes don't have the word "people" in it at all, and just state the name, such as in Mohave, Miwok, and Paiute. If there is more than one common meaning, then it will ususally have "(tribe)" at the end. But I think what we have now for the Comox is fine. --Hottentot 02:20, 1 December 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-12-01T02:20:00.000Z","author":"Hottentot","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hottentot-2005-12-01T02:20:00.000Z-Comox","replies":["c-Skookum1-2005-12-01T03:29:00.000Z-Hottentot-2005-12-01T02:20:00.000Z"]}}-->
I think the place where you saw Comox with accents was on Salishan languages where it was spelled Q’ómox̣ʷs. It's nice to find someone who has similar interests as I. Presently, I've been reading about the Alsea people of Oregon. The problem is, I'm not a very good writer, so I can't really add that much text to that article. I found it interesting about how you said that the Comox were losing their culture and language, but it appears that there are about 400 speakers of Comox today. What do you think happened? --Hottentot 05:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-12-01T05:29:00.000Z","author":"Hottentot","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hottentot-2005-12-01T05:29:00.000Z-Comox","replies":["c-Skookum1-2005-12-01T06:54:00.000Z-Hottentot-2005-12-01T05:29:00.000Z"]}}-->
Thank you for participating in the WikiProject on Electoral districts in Canada. As you know there will be an election soon. So this may be the best time for the Canadian Wikipedia community to band together and write these articles on current federal electoral districts. Based on your comments, and the comments of others, I have put together a prototype layout at the above link. The prototype is not a final proposal. It is just a place to start from, where we can discuss and experiment. Please review it, comment but keep an open mind, and help form a concensus. --maclean25 01:05, 2 December 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-12-02T01:05:00.000Z","author":"Maclean25","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Maclean25-2005-12-02T01:05:00.000Z-Wikipedia:WikiProject_Electoral_districts_in_Canada\/Prototype","replies":[]}}-->
Numerically ordered, no caps/bold:
What are the sources you are using for the BC electoral district pages? Specifically, I am looking for pre-1991 results for Peace River South, and its predecessor riding in northeast BC, whatever-that-is. --maclean25 02:41, 4 December 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-12-04T02:41:00.000Z","author":"Maclean25","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Maclean25-2005-12-04T02:41:00.000Z-BC_Source","replies":["c-Skookum1-2005-12-04T22:36:00.000Z-Maclean25-2005-12-04T02:41:00.000Z"]}}-->
go with what you feel is best, try experimenting with the bolding and asterik notation. But don't be surprised if someone comes along and changes them. Check for international examples (I believe Germany uses a system similar to this). If you really want a definitive answer, create some alternatives, and start a survey of individual editors and post it on Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board and let them vote or reach a concensus. --maclean25 04:22, 4 December 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-12-04T04:22:00.000Z","author":"Maclean25","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Maclean25-2005-12-04T04:22:00.000Z-BC_Source","replies":["c-Skookum1-2005-12-04T22:36:00.000Z-Maclean25-2005-12-04T04:22:00.000Z"]}}-->
(We're not supposed to use article talk pages to discuss hings not directly related to the article, so I'm moving the discussion here.)
Party colours: the policy for the colour of Sir John A.'s party has been to use the same colour regardless of what name it used since it was the same legal entity from 1867 to 2003. It changed name often, and sometimes its candidates used different names in the same elections. This includes:
When the PC Party dissolved itself to form the Conservative Party of Canada, the legal entity ceased to exist, and so a different colour is used for the new party. Ground Zero | t 21:55, 15 December 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-12-15T21:55:00.000Z","author":"Ground Zero","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ground_Zero-2005-12-15T21:55:00.000Z-Moved_from_article_talk_page","replies":["c-Skookum1-2005-12-15T22:23:00.000Z-Ground_Zero-2005-12-15T21:55:00.000Z"]}}-->
You wrote "removed nonsense; posted on Talk page for public ridicule" in this edit summary.
It's best to avoid that kind of remark. Firstly it's not terribly professional, but more importantly it's not in keeping with Wikipedia's civility policy because it ends up creating an antagonistic editing environment—which does no-one any good. Perhaps it was nonsense, and perhaps it would warrant ridicule somewhere else, but just not here. Thanks! and if you have any questions just ask. — Saxifrage | ☎ 23:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-12-15T23:30:00.000Z","author":"Saxifrage","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Saxifrage-2005-12-15T23:30:00.000Z-Edit_summaries","replies":["c-Skookum1-2005-12-16T00:44:00.000Z-Saxifrage-2005-12-15T23:30:00.000Z"]}}-->
Thank you for consulting me. So from what I gather you wish produce a graphic for the seating of the BC legislatures following the BC elections. From what I can see, there are two ways to do this. Using a picture or using a wiki graph like the ones you see in the legislature page. Using the wikigraphs for current parliaments work because parliaments change. It is easier to change the graph than to upload a new image all of the time. I would suggest using an image like the ones I have used for the Canadian election pages. If you need help with that, let me know.
MS123
I have experimented with your chart to see if I could avoid the text-on-colour issue. Text on colour is hard to read for many people. See what you think. Ground Zero | t 22:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-12-21T22:26:00.000Z","author":"Ground Zero","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ground_Zero-2005-12-21T22:26:00.000Z-Your_chart","replies":["c-Skookum1-2005-12-21T22:43:00.000Z-Ground_Zero-2005-12-21T22:26:00.000Z","c-Ground_Zero-2005-12-21T22:51:00.000Z-Ground_Zero-2005-12-21T22:26:00.000Z"]}}-->
Hey, nice to see that I have some work to do! I wasn't sure where to start, however I am not from the Okanagan - dunno where you saw that- but I would be willing to fill in the gaps regardless. I go to the Okanagan each summer and have a few friends up there. As well I could do a lot more research on the area if needs be. Cheers --Omnieiunium 03:08, 26 December 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-12-26T03:08:00.000Z","author":"Omnieiunium","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Omnieiunium-2005-12-26T03:08:00.000Z-BC_elections","replies":[]}}-->
You're right -- Kelowna-Lake Country is a redirect to the federal riding article. I see your point about "electoral district" being sufficient, and "provincial electoral district" being unnecessary in this case. Ground Zero | t 21:01, 28 December 2005 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2005-12-28T21:01:00.000Z","author":"Ground Zero","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ground_Zero-2005-12-28T21:01:00.000Z-Kelowna-Lake_Country","replies":[]}}-->
In a few comments you have shown that you know a thing or two about gerrymandering in Canada. So, I would like to draw this article to your attention. A request has been made to have the article peer reviewed at Wikipedia:Peer review/Gerrymandering/archive1. There is even a (small) section on Canada: Gerrymandering#Gerrymandering in Canada. --maclean25 08:30, 26 January 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-01-26T08:30:00.000Z","author":"Maclean25","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Maclean25-2006-01-26T08:30:00.000Z-Gerrymandering","replies":[]}}-->
Hi, just about your comment on requested maps, I have made a couple maps of Oregon Country. [2], [3], and a blank one. Wasnt sure the best way to depict regions as I dont know much about this subject. If you had any suggestions the maps can be changed fairly easily -- Astrokey44|talk 00:00, 1 February 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-01T00:00:00.000Z","author":"Astrokey44","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Astrokey44-2006-02-01T00:00:00.000Z-Oregon_boundary_dispute","replies":[]}}-->
Hi I saw your map request and the discussion on Oregon boundary dispute - I agree the current map is wrong, will try to tackle making a new one for you in the next week or so. Kmusser 15:52, 22 March 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-03-22T15:52:00.000Z","author":"Kmusser","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kmusser-2006-03-22T15:52:00.000Z-Oregon_boundary_dispute","replies":[]}}-->
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What do you think of adding a non-commercial photo gallery to the external links section of Vancouver Island? It seems rather dry and colourless even for an encyclopedia. moosecharmer 00:31, 22 February 2006 (UTC)moosecharmer__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-22T00:31:00.000Z","author":"Patrickwalshe","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Patrickwalshe-2006-02-22T00:31:00.000Z-Vancouver_Island_Photo_Gallery","replies":[],"displayName":"moosecharmer"}}-->
Hi Skookum, a new project on WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America has been formed. Given your interest in BC First Nations and the subject in general, I thought you might be interested in participating. Luigizanasi 04:50, 22 February 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-22T04:50:00.000Z","author":"Luigizanasi","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Luigizanasi-2006-02-22T04:50:00.000Z-Invitation","replies":[]}}-->
The Hawaiian word for god is "akua". Personal protective spirits are "aumakua". "Tamano" would be a Kaua'i pronunciation of "kamano", which means "salmon".
It's plausible that a Hawaiian word for salmon might have diffused, but it wouldn't have ended up meaning something entirely different, IMHO. Zora 01:50, 26 February 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-26T01:50:00.000Z","author":"Zora","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Zora-2006-02-26T01:50:00.000Z-Tamano","replies":[]}}-->
I moved them to the discussion page since it was taking up a lot of room on the main WikiProject article. I'd like to keep the main project page as neat as possible, without clogging it up too much. It's long enough as it is. :) Thanks. --Buchanan-Hermit™..CONTRIBS..SPEAK!. 07:25, 26 February 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-26T07:25:00.000Z","author":"Buchanan-Hermit","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-02-26T07:25:00.000Z-Your_posts_under_\"People\"_in_WikiProject_Vancouver","replies":[],"displayName":"Buchanan-Hermit\u2122"}}-->
To all WikiProject Vancouver participants: A question has been raised in the WikiProject discussion about whether the entire GVRD should be covered by WP Vancouver. I'd love to hear your input on this on the discussion page because I think it is a possibility despite the amount of workload involved.
Also, don't forget that there is a Yahoo Group for WP Vancouver [4] if you want to be involved in a possible Vancouver meetup. Thanks. :) --Buchanan-Hermit™..CONTRIBS..SPEAK!. 21:56, 26 February 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-26T21:56:00.000Z","author":"Buchanan-Hermit","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-02-26T21:56:00.000Z-WikiProject_Vancouver_and_the_GVRD","replies":[],"displayName":"Buchanan-Hermit\u2122"}}-->
Signed up; might re-sign in under another ID as I'm wary of using Yahoogroups as they tend to generate spam for displayed addresses.....Skookum1 01:24, 27 February 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-27T01:24:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-02-27T01:24:00.000Z-WikiProject_Vancouver_and_the_GVRD-1","replies":[]}}-->
Hi Skookum1! Thanks for your note, and for the dialogue that I'm enjoyed with you on various article talk pages. I've responded to your comments on the United Colonies of Vancouver Island and British Columbia on the talk page there. I think that it may be productive for us, as BC history buffs, to divide our energies so we don't overlap - as well as to pool our energies in certain projects (again, I speak more concerning this on the United Colonies talk page). Right now, I've earmarked Frederick Seymour, Alexander Grant Dallas, Richard Blanshard, Robert Campbell (fur trader), and Anthony Musgrave as existing articles I'd like to improve. I'm also planning to contribute new articles on John McLoughlin, William Fraser Tolmie, and John Work,. I have two long-term projects. First, I'm hoping to revise and extend many of the articles on the premiers of British Columbia. Right now, I'm awaiting permission from the BC Archives to reproduce images of several of them. The only non-copyrighted one I have right now is of John Robson, and I'm hoping to do that article next week. The other project is to complete articles on some of the major rivers, primarily focussing on the north. I'm just waiting until I can find a reliable source on drainages and other statistics before proceeding. You? Fishhead64 21:58, 28 February 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-28T21:58:00.000Z","author":"Fishhead64","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fishhead64-2006-02-28T21:58:00.000Z-History_of_BC","replies":[]}}-->
Hi Skookum1! Thanks for your note, and for the dialogue that I'm enjoyed with you on various article talk pages. I've responded to your comments on the United Colonies of Vancouver Island and British Columbia on the talk page there. I think that it may be productive for us, as BC history buffs, to divide our energies so we don't overlap - as well as to pool our energies in certain projects (again, I speak more concerning this on the United Colonies talk page). Right now, I've earmarked Frederick Seymour, Alexander Grant Dallas, Richard Blanshard, [[Robert Campbell (fur trader), and Anthony Musgrave as existing articles I'd like to improve. I'm also planning to contribute new articles on John McLoughlin, William Fraser Tolmie, and John Work,. I have two long-term projects. First, I'm hoping to revise and extend many of the articles on the premiers of British Columbia. Right now, I'm awaiting permission from the BC Archives to reproduce images of several of them. The only non-copyrighted one I have right now is of John Robson, and I'm hoping to do that article next week. The other project is to complete articles on some of the major rivers, primarily focussing on the north. I'm just waiting until I can find a reliable source on drainages and other statistics before proceeding. You? Fishhead64 21:58, 28 February 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-28T21:58:00.000Z","author":"Fishhead64","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fishhead64-2006-02-28T21:58:00.000Z-History_of_BC_2","replies":[]}}-->
I have a copy of "BC Water Powers", vintage 1950s, which lists all major rivers, their rates of flow, head, all that stuff (my Dad was an engineer with Hydro); might be in the public library where you are (Victoria?). Lengths of rivers you can get from their listings in http://bivouac.com, where they've been digitally "surveyed" with waypoints from their source to whatever confluence or estuary they get to. I plotted in all the names of the coastal inlets and major rivers on British Columbia Coast and got about trying to get all the various tribs of the Fraser, Stikine etc.
I see you like doing the bios; that's good because I find myself too wordy for them (see George Matheson Murray and Margaret Lally "Ma" Murray) and, frankly, there's too many to cope with. Even in the pre-Confederation days the list you've touched on is just a touch; I'll be interested in the W.F. Tolmie one. I've red-linked Ovid Allard (the HBC guy at Yale during the gold rush) and am interested in seeing a lot of the other early francophone characters bio'd; also in French for fr.wikipedia.org; the intriguing ones are guys like "La Malice", who're known mostly by their bad reputation....I'd also imagine you might find bios of Demers, Lejeune, Morice, Durieu, Hills, Lunden-Brown, Turner and other early clerics of interest. Not that I'm trying to off-load work but maybe we should establish a list of needed bios. When I was doing the historical elections returns recently I started a few bio-stubs on guys like John Andrew Mara and Forbes George Vernon, but there's a whole list that needs doing; I'll try and do Arthur Bunster, who's the most interesting MP from the period I think. Quite the cast of characters, that's for sure.
About the colony-name thing; I came across your new page because of your addition of that link to the McGowan's War page - McGowan's War happened in 1858; the United Colonies were not united until 1866 - and must re-state why I think there needs to be separate articles; one is the distinct character of Vancouver Island (even today) and the reality that all three colonies (1849-1866, 1858-1866, 1867-1871) had three entirely different forms of government and also different political cultures as well as raisons d'etre. And "United Colonies" is a term I associate more with the US, or perhaps with ..... hmmm, somewhere else, I think.
That's all for now; real life calls.Skookum1 23:22, 28 February 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-02-28T23:22:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-02-28T23:22:00.000Z-History_of_BC_2","replies":["c-Fishhead64-2006-03-03T23:24:00.000Z-Skookum1-2006-02-28T23:22:00.000Z"]}}-->
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I completely agree with you, and I think it's a wonderful building. I think this is a misunderstanding. I only removed the text I did because I think calling something revolutionary without a reference constitutes POV in Wikipedia. That's all. Other wise you are right... it was indeed a very good example of a modernist open floor... though, it was certainly not the first, so I might question whether it was indeed "revolutionary". Sorry about that. --Arch26 23:38, 12 April 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-04-12T23:38:00.000Z","author":"Arch26","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Arch26-2006-04-12T23:38:00.000Z-BC_Hydro","replies":["c-Arch26-2006-04-12T23:41:00.000Z-Arch26-2006-04-12T23:38:00.000Z"]}}-->
Hey, Skookum1! Did a Google search, got:
Can you comment for me? Thanks. SigPig 02:25, 18 April 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-04-18T02:25:00.000Z","author":"SigPig","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SigPig-2006-04-18T02:25:00.000Z-\"Sea_to_Die\"_highway?","replies":[]}}-->
OK; would have helped if IP-address boy had included even ONE of these cites; the most convincing is the note in The Question that says it's used by paramedic corps - which legitimizes it as slang instead of as neo-marketing slang (which "Sea To Sky" was in the first place - and which was also an outright theft from Whatcom County's Ski To Sea Race). I've heard all kinds of stupid personal slang, often coined by newbies to BC, and this sounded a LOT like one; I lived in Whistler 81-88, when the Province's favourite tag was "Highway of Death" (which we paraphrased as "Highway of F**KING idiots").
So fine, put 'er back in; but I should point out that media slang (repeated/circulating references, built on each other's usage in an article) is not legitimate "slang" per se unless it catches on in the general populace or at least a certain segment of it; what happens is one journalist uses a term, another picks it up; two uses generate a third and so on - all without common speech being involved; at some point some of these terms invade the vernacular because of their use in headlines and articles, but their origins are murky; of course today media language has overtaken popular culture entirely. In this case the paramedics - note that the letter in The Question says that it's them that use it, indicating the Whistler locals do NOT as a whole use it.Skookum1 16:14, 18 April 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-04-18T16:14:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-04-18T16:14:00.000Z-\"Sea_to_Die\"_highway?","replies":[]}}-->
Hi Skookum, Sorry I didn't even see the annotation for the Juneau Icefield! I'm quite sorry...I added it back, although, yes it would be nice for it to have larger text.
Hi Skookum1, this is spireguy, and yes, it's David Metzler. I got into WP since I have some spire measure pages up now and wanted to have descriptive pages to go with the data; since a lot of peaks didn't have such pages anywhere I decided to add them to WP. And of course I've branched out a bit. Cheers, Spireguy 21:59, 27 April 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-04-27T21:59:00.000Z","author":"Spireguy","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Spireguy-2006-04-27T21:59:00.000Z-Hi","replies":[]}}-->
Thanks for the explanation about the stub tag. I was wondering about that. You do good work. Just watch that self automating! Sunray 20:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-08T20:47:00.000Z","author":"Sunray","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sunray-2006-05-08T20:47:00.000Z-Salishan_languages","replies":["c-Sunray-2006-05-08T20:51:00.000Z-Sunray-2006-05-08T20:47:00.000Z"]}}-->
You mean ethno-stub vs NorthAm-native-stub? Or do you mean the stub that's on the article page vs. the one on the talk page?Skookum1 20:54, 8 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-08T20:54:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-05-08T20:54:00.000Z-Salishan_languages","replies":["c-Sunray-2006-05-08T20:56:00.000Z-Skookum1-2006-05-08T20:54:00.000Z"]}}-->
I merely wanted to thank you for the consistent effort you're putting into our Wikiproject. Thanks to you and the work of other dedicated users, it has become a great initiative and a thrieving community. Way to go! Kisses, Phaedriel ♥ tell me - 22:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-08T22:16:00.000Z","author":"Phaedriel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Phaedriel-2006-05-08T22:16:00.000Z-WikiProject_Indigenous_Peoples_of_North_America","replies":["c-TriNotch-2006-05-11T07:41:00.000Z-Phaedriel-2006-05-08T22:16:00.000Z"]}}-->
Last time I saw it, the evaluation table on the Project page still had all the Mexico articles in a separate table that contained both tribal and linguistic articles. Part of my desire to include the indigenous peoples of Mexico in the project is out of a concern that often the groups in the two nations are studied in very different ways, the reasons for which seem very arbitrary to me. So ideally, I would like to integrate the indigenous Mexican articles into the existing tables. I was hesitant at first because it seemed like I was the only one interested in including Mexican tribes, and I didn't want to force it on anyone. I was also concerned that there might not be much overlap between students of indigenous languages from opposite sides of the border. But if you think the Mexico articles ought to be integrated into the other tables, then I am with you.
Secondly, the question of which articles to include in the Mexican section. Mexico's population is largely indigenous ethnically, so many aspects of the culture and society could easily be called "indigenous". However, Mexico is politically and culturally the product of the last 500 years of mixing, conflict, and the forging of a new identity. We don't want to include every aspect of Mexican society.
Major indigenous figures such as Benito Juarez should definitely be included under leaders. Also tribes and cultural groups, both Pre-Columbian and modern, should be included. Cultural aspects specific to indigenous groups or religions (i.e. La Danza del Venado (Deer dance, which is on my "to-do" list) and Nagual would be included, but, for example, tortilla would not). Government programs such as the Yaqui War and agencies such as the INI (Instituto Nacional Indigena, I believe) should be included, but agencies/programs not directly pertaining to the indigenous should not (the land bureau, while having effects on indigenous populations, does so indirectly through national policies). And of course there is room for latitude.
With events like the Tlatelolco massacre, I can see its symbolic significance vis-a-vis indigenous issues, but the events were not directly related to indigenous issues so much as issues of human rights, students' rights, and demands for democratic reform. On these grounds, I would include Tlatelolco and the Plaza de las Tres Culturas in the NAm Wikiproject, but not the massacre. If you want indigenous massacres for the project, however, Mexico has plenty.--Rockero 07:38, 9 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-09T07:38:00.000Z","author":"Rockero","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rockero-2006-05-09T07:38:00.000Z-Indigenous_peoples_of_Mexico","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-05-09T18:18:00.000Z-Rockero-2006-05-09T07:38:00.000Z"]}}-->
Hello! I hope you're well. Since you weighed in on the discussion months ago regarding hyphenation of this term (i.e., in favour of Lieutenant-Governor), I'd appreciate if you can do so again in this request to move the article back to the hyphenated rendition. The article was recently forked by an editor to the unhyphenated version without consideration of our prior discussions, with little recent discussion, and missing or removing information (e.g., the usage note). Consequently, this article is now inconsistent with other related ones in Wp and remains in a bit of a mess. Let me know if you've any questions. Thanks! E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 02:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-11T02:33:00.000Z","author":"E Pluribus Anthony","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-E_Pluribus_Anthony-2006-05-11T02:33:00.000Z-Lieutenant-Governor_(Canada)_article_move","replies":[]}}-->
Hey Skookum, pleased to officially meet you on Wikipedia. I have good news and bad news about this subject- the good news is your comment prompted me to begin research. The bad news is that the situation is more complicated than I previously realized. Southeastern archaeology (and apparently Northeastern as well) colloquially refers to native steatite as greenstone. Steatite is also in prehistoric use in your area (the Northwest, I mean) according to "A Remarkable Pipe from Northwestern America" by Harlan I. Smith, American Anthropologist, New Series, Vol. 8, No. 1. (Jan. - Mar., 1906), pp. 33-38. Furthermore, as you say, we really ought to have a section on NW coast/BC nephrite use, and that stuff on the China exchange sounds really interesting. So basically Actinolite (nephrite jade), greenstone, and steatite all might need more extensive Indigenous North American information. I'm in the process of looking for sources now and soon I'll start to write something; I hope you'll work with me on this. Incidentally, Jadeite is pretty slim on Indigenous information as well, not even covering Mesoamerican use. TriNotch 21:26, 11 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-11T21:26:00.000Z","author":"TriNotch","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-TriNotch-2006-05-11T21:26:00.000Z-Jade\/Jadeite\/Nephrite\/Greenstone","replies":["c-TriNotch-2006-05-11T21:37:00.000Z-TriNotch-2006-05-11T21:26:00.000Z"]}}-->
I should clarify, I have no doubts that there were more underlying elements to the crisis, and that the golf course was the straw that broke the Camel's back (Hell, I'm surprised it hasn't happened in some other areas of the country where I've heard worse stories of mistreatment)
I'm just saying that Meech itself wasn't really as much of a factor, although it was brought into the limelight a few times by protestors and that. I would put, pretty much in order, the golf course, general mistreatment, racism, distrust of police (Especially the SPQ), poverty, and other factors ahead of Meech Lake.
I'm not trying to put out a clear, "Media" cleaned up vision of Meech by my edits (And I edited a good deal on the article). I'm just trying to sumerize a subject that has had so much biased elements to it, so much emotion at the times, and limitless books atributed.Habsfan|t 19:22, 14 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-14T19:22:00.000Z","author":"Habsfannova","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Habsfannova-2006-05-14T19:22:00.000Z-Meech\/Oka","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-05-14T19:37:00.000Z-Habsfannova-2006-05-14T19:22:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Habsfan"}}-->
Thanks for leaving a note on my talk page about hyas hyas lamonti in my edit of the Chinook Jargon vocabulary. It's important, because I too think it belongs in there. But Trubba not mon — hyas hyas lamonti and all is all still there, just broken up into separate mini-paragraph. I checked and I didn't actually delete any of it. I just moved it around. Whew: scared me. Tom Lougheed 02:56, 16 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-16T02:56:00.000Z","author":"Tom Lougheed","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tom_Lougheed-2006-05-16T02:56:00.000Z-Chinook_Jargon","replies":[]}}-->
By the way: could you please check on my expantion of moos-moos? I remember my grandfather using Chinook as part of explaining the English words for "steer" and "heifer", but since we were all almost completely WASPs, and since I didn't understand Chinook as a language very well either (we mostly just used it in place names, and local plant names, like chitticum), I'm not confident that I've remembered it right. Plus they refused to explain to me what man stone moos-moos meant. I thought it was the neighbors' bull's name until I read your vocabulary list. Tom Lougheed 17:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-16T17:44:00.000Z","author":"Tom Lougheed","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tom_Lougheed-2006-05-16T17:44:00.000Z-Chinook_Jargon","replies":[]}}-->
I posted evidence against myself in Talk:Skokomish (tribe), but refused to recant yet. Tom Lougheed 02:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-21T02:01:00.000Z","author":"Tom Lougheed","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tom_Lougheed-2006-05-21T02:01:00.000Z-Skokomish","replies":[]}}-->
Wondeful. Thanks for the help. -- TheMightyQuill 08:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-19T08:18:00.000Z","author":"Themightyquill","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Themightyquill-2006-05-19T08:18:00.000Z-Indigenous_People_Wikiproject","replies":[]}}-->
Just wanted to let you know that I have revised your change to the Somena Page, and dispute your claim that "Somena is a Bogus Nation."
I have given more information about the history of the "Tribes or Nations" within the Cowichan Valley on the Somena page.
-- Who made the decision that Indian Nations, can only be creations of the Federal Government of Canada or the Federal Government of the United States? --I can not speak for other Nations within the Cowichan Valley, only for my relations within Somena who have made a formal demand for recognition from the Federal Government and HRH QEII for their independence from the Cowichan Tribes Indian Band to be considered a separate entity
Indian Bands are merely domestic legal creations or 'fictions' of the Canadian Government and it's Indian Act. Indian Bands have no legitimacy to act within the parameters of International Law whereas Indigenous "Tribes or Nations" (per Royal Proclamation 1763, and BNA, and Vienna Accord) do. Self-Declared "First Nations" per say, are nothing more than domestic minorities within Canada who also have no claim to take their cause to the UN or recieve relief under International law Covenenants. The Indian Act Governments of Canada, derive their sole power from the Canadian Government. The salaries of these Indian Act Band employees are derived from the Canadian Government, their only claim to "rule" the Tribes or Nations whom they claim to rule, comes from elections held by Indian Act, DIA Officials. They are in effect ipso facto "agents of the crown. Somena, and a few other Peoples of Tribes or Nations across Canada are doggedly asserting our rights under International Law, while the Indian Act Bands, prefer to exist as domestic ethnic minorities within Canada -- You must read Janice Switlo's articles about this. She is a leading expert on International Law as it pertains to Indigenous Peoples in North America and has worked with the Somena People for the past few years.
Somena actually did get so far as presenting our petition to the Sr.Advisor on Aboriginal Affairs to Paul Martin, the then Prime Minister of Canada. It is a long process to achieve recognition of independence. We also presented our Declaration of Independence to the David Didluck,(negotiatior for the Federal Government) and to the Governor General of Canada, and to the Lt Governor General of British Columbia, The BC Treaty Commission, as well as reading the text of our declaration, signed by 43 people, representing about 165 Somena Peoples, with about 600 acres of land that they own, outloud at a maintable Negotiation on October 10th 2002, in the presence of eyewitnesses and media who reported on the event.
Getting back to the Different Nations in the Cowichan Valley -- These Nations existed independently, and did govern themselves as separate entities. It was only when the Indian Act, and the Indian Agents demanded that the Cowichan Tribes amalgamate that these Nations began to become considered "Indian Bands" in the first place, and less than that, that these individual Nations within the Cowichan Valley each had their own leaders, and system of governance, were forced into the Indian Act governance for the mere convenience of the Indian Agent at the time.
Since none of these Nations, including Somena have signed a Treaty with Canada, and yet it was recognized by James Douglas, and King George, by the signing of Treaties with Indigenous Nations that 'Tribes or Nations" did exist on a nation-to-nation basis with the Crown, your claim that Somena is a "bogus" nation - is actually a bogus claim. History, Legal Realities, and International law would dictate otherwise. I direct you to http://www.switlo.com/index.php and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Royal_Proclamation_of_1763 for more information if you would care to read up on it.
In the absence of signed Treaty Somena and the other Nations on Vancouver Island that did not get involved in the Douglas Treaty business still exist as Sovereign entities. They have not been conquered, there was no war, they have not extinguished their rights, and they certainly have not given up on their claims to land or the right to rule themselves.
Thanks for your attention to this. Best Regards
Hola Skookum, if you review the Canadian Government's archives, (which I think are still online), you will find that Somena and in fact each of the named nations in the Cowichan Valley were all recognized as indipendent Indian Bands, Tribes or Nations up until the point of the forced amalgamation.
By the way, there is no word for "chief" in Hul'qumi'num. There is a word for it in chinook, but not in the original language of our people. We had 4 different types of people in our community. Siem, Sielth, Stashum and Skeulth. Siem were high-honoured people. Status had to do with recognition of both wealth and their connection to the various cultural practices of the Coast Salish peoples... be it Seyouwun (Spirit Dance), Swuauwkway (Mask Dance), Shulmustus (Rattles). (I am spelling these out phonetically)
There were several factors that went into determining how or why somebody was regarded as Siem and there is no word in English which properly conveys all of this. The closest equivelent I have found has been "Dignitas" in Latin Roman language. Sielth, were those who were simply very wealthy. Stashum were those who had forgotten where they had come from, and didn't know their own background, and the Skeulth were Slaves, who were actually more like prisoners of war, taken in battle, who could eventually over time ingratiate themselves into the society.
Charlie Quitquarton was recognized by non-native Government Officials, (including Sir John A MacDonald) as a "Chief) and indeed there is even a famous picture of "Chief Charlie) meeting with Canada's First Prime Minister when they put the train station in at Somena after building the railway through Somena up the island. Charlie was sort of the hub of the community, and in the formal tradition had been given permission to speak on behalf of the Somena. His descendents are Leonard James Sr, and Jr, and Terri Joe -- Currently alive and well in Somena.
The archives show over the years until the Amalgamation that Somena (as well as each of the other nations in the Cowichan Valley) had it's own members, it's own lands, and even it's own budget in the ledgers of the then department of Indian Affairs (it's modern day equivelent). The census's taken recognized the existence of the "Somena Indian Band". And birth, marriage and death certificates clearly show that the government recognized the independence of this Tribe or Nation.
Newspaper clippings would also refer to "A Somena Indian did x,y, or z" commonly.
Again, I must refer you to the Royal Proclamation of 1763, as to why I insist on the use of the terms "Tribes or Nations". It is because the King/Crown recognized in that document that these two words were interchangeable, when the British were signing nation-to-nation Treaties with "Tribes or Nations in Canada.
I don't mean to be picky here... and this is not an attempt to politicize. I am simply laying out the facts as the people here understand, and as the official archives of the Canadian/British Government document.
So in short, there was no "Chieftanship" because there was no "Chief" per say, (at least from the perspective of the actual Indigenous people. Old Charlie was a Siem who was a speaker for our people. There are of course other famous "Chiefs" in the Cowichan Valley -- Like Tzouhalem, but this man was more of a General of the miltiary forces in the region than a "chief" like the Government of Britian and Canada keep trying to insist on calling people in these leadership roles.
I think that if the Indigenous Wiki Project is to have any validity it must take into account the perspective of the Indigenous Peoples themselves, and allow them to identify themselves according to their own perspective. Otherwise this looks to me like a further attempt at colonialization, which I don't believe is the purpose of this Wiki Project.
The UN recognizes the rights of individuals to protect, assert, and preserve their culture and identity. My edits for Somena are simply that.
Best
M (Somena)
A brief PS... My research has focused primarily upon Somena over the past 8 years, and it has not extended as much to other Nations on Vancouver Island, only insofaras they had relations with the Somena. In our culture it's considered somewhat rude to make proclamations about people whom you do not belong to, and are not officially speaking for, or have been asked to speak for. So I am not sure what I can do to assist with the other Wikipedians who are working on the other "Tribes or Nations" in this region. But I can back up all of my work on this with the documented efforts of a couple of books that have been written on the subject... "Coast Salish Essays" by Wayne Suttles, Terror of the Coast by Chris Arnett, and of course the Canadian Government's own historical website. I also rely upon the oral traditions and stories of the Somena People to assist. For example... one of the reasons the Somena don't consider the amalgamation to be legitimate was that when the Indian Agent forced it upon us, the only reason people did not fight back (and they could have very effectively) was because the Indian Agent promised that if the Cowichan Valley Tribes or Nations allowed him to do this, (amalgamate the Indian Bands) that the government would build houses for every single family on the reserve. This of course never materialized. So the Amalgamation was achieved under false promises and representations. There are of course some who prefer that "Cowichan Tribes" (which is an entity that was created by the Indian Act and that's where it derives any legitimacy at all) remain as "Cowichan Tribes" -- however, within the Snuewueth (traditional laws) of the people of this region, if any group of people or family was unhappy with their representation, they were always free to Hwneetzilum or (go their own way) -- and this did happen over the span of hundreds of years of pre-contact history, which is why there were indeed these separate Nations within the Cowichan Valley. Different Hw'nuchalewum (groups of big houses) struck out on their own.
Hope that explains some of this better.
Ha Ca Qua Siem! For your help with the Somena page and tutorials on Wiki formating and such. I've been on Wiki for awhile but am still learning. ( BTW That means thank you, honoured person!)(in the singular) pronounced Hachaka Seeum - since you are a language buff. Be happy to swap words with you from time to time. Somena 20:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-30T20:36:00.000Z","author":"Somena","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Somena-2006-05-30T20:36:00.000Z-Thanks_so_much_&_More","replies":[]}}-->
--About the Edits vs Vandalism--...did you see the edit that said something about "The Great Pumpkin" and one that changed Doug Williams name to Hank Reardon (from Atlas Shrugged) -- and the ones that were simply insults about me and my family members -- weren't vandalism?
Help me out here... I looked at the Vandalism page, and the "No Personal Attacks" page, and these kinds of "edits" seemed to qualify to me, and to some others who reverted what they viewed as Vandalism, to be in fact vandalism. I'm not talking about any of the discussions held about the substance of the actual entry. I'm talking about the silly little jabs and insults that have been added off and on for the past few months everytime a flamewar in the Blogworld heats up. I want to keep the vandal box up - because I think it's a good idea to let potential vandals know that wikipedians are watching this page, and are paying attention to the edits being made, and why they are being made. But if you don't want the box.. I guess we could keep it down. Maybe I could use the Vandal box in the Discussion portion? - What do you think? I'll ask an admin to look into this. Not only that, but an admin who is intimately familiar with the personalities involved in this whole thing. Paging [Bucketsofg], Paging [BucketsofG],Bucketsofg could you please come to the red courtesy phone Thank you kindly ;)Somena 00:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-06-01T00:28:00.000Z","author":"Somena","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Somena-2006-06-01T00:28:00.000Z-Thanks_so_much_&_More","replies":[]}}-->
--Update on Edits vs Vandalism-- Hey Skook, Admin [Bucketsofg] has suggested that you are most probably correct in that he has not seen these vandalism tracking boxes on Articles/Entries pages. Would you object to it being kept on the discussion page? See my user page for my explanation as to why I don't think most of these edits were especially good faith POV. There's a history here of a blog clash that has spilled over into Wiki. It ain't pretty. I could understand this all, if the entry in question (being vandalized/edited) was about myself. But it's not. It's about Somena. I don't think I actually rate a wiki entry about myself. But I do believe the Somena Nation needs one and that's why I built it. It's sad really, the whole thing. Anyways. Thanks for your help and guidance on this.
Your Hul'qumi'num word for the day is "nutsa's'qua'llawun" which having no direct translation in English means the achieving of "one mind (agreement), one heart(feeling, one spirit(belief) " Pronounced "nutza squall'a'won". As in "When our elders come together, they generally find nutsa's'qua'llawun". Somena 18:38, 1 June 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-06-01T18:38:00.000Z","author":"Somena","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Somena-2006-06-01T18:38:00.000Z-Thanks_so_much_&_More","replies":[]}}-->
Ikt kahkwa konaway tumtum ("one as all heart/thought") in Chinook (maybe; there are alternatives; konaway ikt tumtum would mean more like "to each his/her thoughts"). Simplest is probably ikt kahkwa konaway (one as if all, or like the Three Musketeers, "all for one"; possibly using the prepositoin kopa instead of the comparative kahkwa; but not necessarily. The nice thing about Chinook is it's relatively freeform and may also reflect the syntax of the speaker's mother tongue (since most Chinook speakers were and are second-language Chinook speakers).
One parting question: on the Cowichan disambiguation page I have a redlink unwritten article) that's Cowichan (people). Given what you've taught me, I gather that perhaps Cowichan peoples may be more appropriate, i.e. Cowichan-area peoples, so that Somena, Quamichan etc would be listed on that page as being the nations in the Cowichan area. Or is there a collective name for this bunch of nations/groups? Or is no more a distinct bunch within the other Island/Islands peoples around there; in which case the "cowichan" designator is meant to be just locational, rather than a tribal designation.Skookum1 01:39, 2 June 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-06-02T01:39:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-06-02T01:39:00.000Z-Thanks_so_much_&_More","replies":[]}}-->
Ref your comment in your edit summary: You don't need a web link, you can of course cite a book, thesis, .... Please use Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles/Generic citations. Please also find a non-nothern US ref that supports the assertion, preferably with refernce to gold production and comparisons with other rushes in the world. In ten years the european population of Victoria, Australia increased seven-fold from from 76,000 to 540,000 because of the Victorian Gold Rush. All sorts of gold records were produced - "richest shallow alluvial goldfield in the world", largest gold nugget, ... Victoria produced in the decade 1851-1860 20 million ounces, one third of the world's output. This is an international encyclopaedia - I think the Klondike rush is dealt adequately at the section Gold_rush#Rushes_of_the_1890s and it is not justified to repeat the information in the lead section.--A Y Arktos\talk 20:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-05-31T20:36:00.000Z","author":"AYArktos","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AYArktos-2006-05-31T20:36:00.000Z-Citation_on_gold_rush","replies":["c-AYArktos-2006-05-31T20:45:00.000Z-AYArktos-2006-05-31T20:36:00.000Z"],"displayName":"A Y Arktos"}}-->
You're absolutely right, it is a population ranking. That's why we can't add numbers 22, 38, 46 and 70, but call them 19, 20, 21 and 22. (Clearly, I made up the first four numbers) - my point is that, until we research more and confirm that the rank is correct, it's not okay to simply append them to the bottom. For instance, there are islands in the east (Anticosti in Quebec, Toronto Island, Bell Island in Newfoundland) that might come ahead of your four in the list. It might be okay to add a secondary table, something like "other Canadian Islands with populations", but to formally rank the island #19, we should know that it's actually the 19th most populous in Canada. That's why I removed them. AshleyMorton 01:11, 7 June 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-06-07T01:11:00.000Z","author":"AshleyMorton","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AshleyMorton-2006-06-07T01:11:00.000Z-Island_size","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-06-07T01:13:00.000Z-AshleyMorton-2006-06-07T01:11:00.000Z"]}}-->
Yikes, that's a long list. Ummm... well, I think they can probably replace the entire tasks list (I like this table format), but it's just... long. Perhaps using a "hide" option for each section would be more effective? -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 02:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-06-16T02:56:00.000Z","author":"Buchanan-Hermit","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-06-16T02:56:00.000Z-Re:_BC_Wikiproject_tables","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-06-16T07:18:00.000Z-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-06-16T02:56:00.000Z"]}}-->
If they come across that way I didn't invent the format; it's from the Indigenous people's project; but consider this: trying to coordinate the sheer volume of articles will be impossible without them, or something like them. I've just moved the Rivers section to Talk:List of British Columbia rivers and could do the same for lakes, communities, history, geography etc; IRs and other native cultural stuff can be referred to the Indigenous project table for same, though those tables include stateside and Mexican content (best to have shared reviews/tasklists between different projects only in one place, though); if there's a "tasks" list, it's huge overall; there can be a smaller version for top-20 things needing doing/writing/editing that can flux all the time; but a central directory I think is necessary; I hvae these same tables on the Wikiproject Vancouver page but haven't fleshed them out yet, and will do the same relocation thing to appropriate subpages.
RE: Talk:List_of_United_States_military_history_events#1818_--_Oregon.
I took the unprecendent step of toning down your entry. I think this is the first time I ever toned down another users entry. I am sorry. I hope this does not offend you.
Please let me explain. You seem like a rational and very intellegent person.
We have the same POV, I think. I am an American, but I am deeply ashamed of America's imperial past. My views are vigorously suppressed and I often feel marginalized.
Some of my best work involves the Philippine-American War. I have gone toe to toe with the most sophisticated and intellegent conservatives on wikipedia. I have been indefinetly banned once for my views with copyright conservatives. I was banned for 24 hours for my comments to another conservative. I have been in arbitration, to many revert wars to count, and had my wikiuser vandalized dozens of times. Why do I mention this? Because through it all, I have learned that you get more bees with honey, not vinegar. Being a diplomat saves you time and emotional energy. It is crucial that we, the new commers to List_of_United_States_military_history_events are diplomats.
Just 5 hours ago I radically changed this article. I added a lot of anti-empire/anti-american external links to this wikipage. I probably stepped on some toes of some very conservative, patriotic, pro-military wikipedians by doing this. People don't like to see there work radically changed without their permission first. I was bold in my edits, as I encouraged you to do. About five months ago several of us, sought consensus, (including some of the most conservative wikipedians) agreed to merge articles. Nothing was actually done until tonight.
The worst thing that could happen right now is for another newcomer (yourself) to follow my radical edits and mock the page. This is bound to cause some really bad feelings right away. I do not want an edit war. I will avoid this at all costs. If that means cutting out some of your most inflammitory words, I will reluctantly do this. I hate to do it, but I will if I must.
I want to build a consensus. It is essential the first week of this major edit, that I avoid, we avoid stepping on too many toes. We can get all of the edits we want, much easier, by being diplomats. Trust me on this, please.
For the past 10 months, Philippine-American War has kept in the most brutal aspects of the US invasion because of comprimise. I have avoided major revert wars by comprimise, and ultimatly, we won. Whenever someone types in Philippine-American War, anywhere in the world, they will learn the facts: the US invaded a country and killed at least 200,000 people, putting them in consentration camps and torturing them. In a conservative and ultra patriotic country such as America, that to me is a major accomplishment.
I want to do the same with List_of_United_States_military_history_events as we have done with American Empire, and the entire Template:AmericanEmpire series. It was only 6 months ago that everyone of these articles was in jeoprody of being deleted from wikipedia. All of them were up for votes for deletion several times. We fought really, really hard to keep these articles on wikipedia, and almost lost. It was through some igenous suggestions and strategies, which i am proud to say that I had a small part in helping with, that we were able to assure that these articles will never again be seriously threatened with deletion.
I think you are a smart guy. I think you can see the merits in my argument. We have the same POV. All I ask is to tone down your words on the talk page, and use neutral words in your edits on the page. Be bold, but edit smart.
Welcome to American Empire, List_of_United_States_military_history_events. I am excited to have another smart, knowlegable wikipedian on our side.
There are 280 million Americans, but 6 billion people worldwide. As the list shows clearly, the US has invaded almost everyone of the coutries were the other 5.7 billion people lived. It is frustrating to be surrounded by the minority, but nice to be part of the majority. Welcome.
Signed:Travb (talk) 07:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-06-24T07:24:00.000Z","author":"Travb","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Travb-2006-06-24T07:24:00.000Z-Hi_Skookum1","replies":["c-Travb-2006-06-24T22:49:00.000Z-Travb-2006-06-24T07:24:00.000Z"]}}-->
Do you have a source for a good online Canadian or British dictionary? I also looked at dictionary.com, which sometimes has alternate spellings (and even Webster sometimes does (and it'll say "chiefly Brit.)), but I could not find any there. Thanks for your help. Ufwuct 21:22, 24 June 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-06-24T21:22:00.000Z","author":"Ufwuct","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ufwuct-2006-06-24T21:22:00.000Z-Alternate_spelling","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-06-24T21:25:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2006-06-24T21:22:00.000Z"]}}-->
Hi Skookum1
Just so you know, the notes you made about the Premier's legal status are not correct. The Premier (or, federally, the Prime Minister) does advise the Lieutenant-Governor (federally, Governor-General). There is no conflict of interest -- in fact, the L-G relies quite heavily on the Premier and his ministers for many things. For example, appointments of the Crown are regularly made "on the advise of the Premier". In any event, much of the information in the article comes directly from the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia -- and they ought to know.
Regards, - Juxtatype 23:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-04T23:40:00.000Z","author":"Juxtatype","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Juxtatype-2006-07-04T23:40:00.000Z-Premier_of_British_Columbia","replies":[]}}-->
With regards to your comments on User talk:HongQiGong: Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. "Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users." Please keep this in mind while editing. Thanks. Hong Qi Gong 19:32, 6 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-06T19:32:00.000Z","author":"HongQiGong","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-HongQiGong-2006-07-06T19:32:00.000Z-No_personal_attacks","replies":[],"displayName":"Hong Qi Gong"}}-->
...about gong show, I missed it, thanks. Very versatile phrase, btw, not unknown in the States, but (I believe) more frequent in Canada; just rewrite the entry the way you see fit, according to true current Canadian usage (gooned is not uniquely Canadian, anyways). A "vulgar" page would do good as a sandbox for the guys to cut loose in; the flipside is, it would probably be unencyclopedic... JackLumber. 21:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-06T21:55:00.000Z","author":"JackLumber","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JackLumber-2006-07-06T21:55:00.000Z-Canadian_slang:_Good_point...","replies":[],"displayName":"JackLumber."}}-->
Hong Qi Gong would have you "compromise" by admitting that "China" "Man" is as offensive as "foreign devil" if you want his "help."
If you fall for that, he's probably got some swamp land you might be interested in buying...
The words "China" and "man" used separately or together are not inherently offensive. They have become offensive only through history, through their manner of use, and in the way they are taken. One could say "Chineeeeeeeeeese" in an offensive way too. Or, spoken in a completely neutral tone, the word "Chinese" could be taken as offensive by the hyper-sensitive who don't want their ethnicity talked about in any way. Still, the word "Chinese" is not in itself offensive (at least not till it's declared so).
The intent behind "foreign devil," on the other hand, speaks quite eloquently for itself. Hong Qi Gong cannot be so dense as to think the two terms are equally offensive, though apparently he's betting others are. Human Fetishist 22:52, 6 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-06T22:52:00.000Z","author":"Human Fetishist","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Human_Fetishist-2006-07-06T22:52:00.000Z-Chinaman\/Gweilo","replies":["c-HongQiGong-2006-07-06T23:30:00.000Z-Human_Fetishist-2006-07-06T22:52:00.000Z"]}}-->
Actually, Hong Qi Gong (since you're monitoring this page I'll reply here), another instance of knee-jerk "perceived racism" I encountered at a film festival in NYC; there was a Norwegian film about a lesbian detective in Oslo (based on a popular Norwegian TV show) and the Norwegian word negger, meaning darker-coloured person, was used; which outraged some non-Norwegians listening who took it to mean much the same as in English "nigger"; but in Norwegian there's no derisive overtone, and negger can simply be someone with dark hair or black eyes (as was the case with the lesbian lead); no amount of discussion in the lobby afterwards could resolve this, as the diehard p.c.-types, who only spoke English, couldn't wrap their head around a similar word in another language not being the same as the English word; the Norwegian word for the colour "black" is svart (like Ger. schwarz) and cannot be used to describe people, only objects; rather, excuse me, while it can be derisive (as in the film), it is not racial in context (since it can describe whites, even other Norwegians). So in other wrords, the p.c. types were wanting to impose American cultural standards on another language's cultural context; that's what I see going on with chinaman and other terms (see Native American name controversy, esp. the talk page); fetishist is quite right though; as I tried to explain to you, even using 'Chinese' in Vancouver can be interpreted to have a racist context. But that's not OUR doing.....as for collaborating/cooperating, yeah OK, but read all that stuff I linked you to first, and consider the loaded connotations of too loose a wording; I note your most recent change to Chinaman but->and, which in combination with my own efforts on the rest of that sentence now makes "acceptable sense". It's important that the non-derisive origins and usage of the word be mentioned; it's become derisive; it wasn't always. Also on the same direction, "Asian" (which used to include South Asians, but no longer) has been coopted as a surrogate; similarly "Eurasian" used to mean someone of mixed white-Asian race, usually of white/imperial cultural heritage, but it also used to include South Asian-European mixes as well as Chinese-European mixes; now it's only the latter; more cooptation.I have to go for now; have a look over HongCouver and that discussion from The Tyee I linked you to and consider my point of view on this; I'm looking for truth, not ideologySkookum1 23:40, 6 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-06T23:40:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-07-06T23:40:00.000Z-Chinaman\/Gweilo","replies":["c-HongQiGong-2006-07-07T00:07:00.000Z-Skookum1-2006-07-06T23:40:00.000Z"]}}-->
Hi Skookum1. I objected to your unencyclopedic commentary ("The history on this site is heavily distorted and contains many inaccuracies and outright untruths") in the History of Chinese immigration to Canada article. So thank you for leaving that comment out, even if it means losing the link. I'm not familiar with all of the CCNC's truths or lies. But that organization is decades old and appears to have reached a level of notability/significant/recognition in Canadian media that allows it visibility in an encyclopedia, even if they spread some lies. If you're equipped to supply critical, verifiable content about this organization, the Chinese Canadian National Council article might benefit from it. Cheers. --Ds13 00:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-10T00:54:00.000Z","author":"Ds13","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ds13-2006-07-10T00:54:00.000Z-Chinese_Canadian_National_Council","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-07-10T07:15:00.000Z-Ds13-2006-07-10T00:54:00.000Z"]}}-->
Please remain civil and refrain from using profanity in disputes. It's not really productive when you're trying to change some one's mind. =D See you around. --mboverload@ 06:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-10T06:05:00.000Z","author":"Mboverload","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mboverload-2006-07-10T06:05:00.000Z-Calm","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-07-10T07:20:00.000Z-Mboverload-2006-07-10T06:05:00.000Z"]}}-->
User:Skookum1, thanks for proving some of my points.
I had a few comments to your response, but I pressed the wrong button and deleted it.
You are always entertaining.
I have met 2 other Koreans in my life, and both of them are really argumentive like you, maybe it is just an anomoly and I have just had bad luck in meeting Koreans. I should set you up with this Korean girl in Canada in BC that I met in Malta. Send me an e-mail and I will send you her e-mail address.Travb (talk) 16:40, 11 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-11T16:40:00.000Z","author":"Travb","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Travb-2006-07-11T16:40:00.000Z-Calm","replies":[]}}-->
With regards to your comments on User_talk:Skookum1: Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. "Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users." Please keep this in mind while editing. Thanks. --- Hong Qi Gong 17:07, 11 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-11T17:07:00.000Z","author":"HongQiGong","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-HongQiGong-2006-07-11T17:07:00.000Z-No_personal_attacks_-_\"HongQiGong_may_be_a_pain_in_the_ass\"","replies":[],"displayName":"--- Hong Qi Gong"}}-->
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Is that you in the pic, dear Skookum? Cause if that's the case, it's so great to finally meet you! :) But where are my manners? I've been wanting to talk to you for a very long time, dear, so this is just a great opportunity to finally introduce myself... although you and I already know each other, in a very real sense, after all the work you so greatly performed at WP:IPNA. I really want to tell you many things regarding this project, and all the major overhaul and revamping I'm trying to get finished before going on a short vacation, but if you forgive me, hun, I'll leave a lengthier reply for tomorrow, as I'm kinda busy, and not in a very bright mood right now. I promise, tho, that I'll look into the arrangement at your userpage right away. You deserve a prize yourself for your amazing work and dedication, dear Sk, so rest assured a gift will magically appear here *real* soon :) Big hugs, and talk to you tomorrow, Phædriel ♥ tell me - 00:15, 12 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-12T00:15:00.000Z","author":"Phaedriel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Phaedriel-2006-07-12T00:15:00.000Z-Nice_to_finally_meet_you!","replies":[],"displayName":"Ph\u00e6driel"}}-->
It seems to me that you have acted in an uncivil manner on User talk:HongQiGong. It is important to keep a cool head, despite any comments against you. Personal attacks and disruptive comments only escalate a situation; please keep calm and action can be taken against the other parties if necessary. Your involvement in attacking back can only satisfy trolls or anger contributors, and lead to general bad feeling. Please try to remain civil with your comments. Thanks! --- Hong Qi Gong 15:15, 12 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-12T15:15:00.000Z","author":"HongQiGong","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-HongQiGong-2006-07-12T15:15:00.000Z-Please_remain_civil","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-07-16T09:28:00.000Z-HongQiGong-2006-07-12T15:15:00.000Z"],"displayName":"--- Hong Qi Gong"}}-->
Hi; saw your change to Victory Square's category; I'm surprised there's not a Vancouver parks cat; you'd think there would be; especially since GVRD-wide there's tons of them. My concern with the Parks in British Columbia category is that it's going to be huge once all prov, RD, fed and municipal parks are added in. Wouldn't a subcat hierarchy be more workable? Or are there not just enough park articles yet?Skookum1 02:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC) PS I know there's a provincial-parks cat, and there's only 10 or so federal parks (lots more fed-park proposals); but still between munis and RDs it's going to be a huge list...Skookum1 02:36, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Oooooh, very pretty. I'd love to adapt that kind of format. It's definitely workable. Who else have you consulted about this? (I want to see what everyone thinks.) Thanks. -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 03:12, 13 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-13T03:12:00.000Z","author":"Buchanan-Hermit","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-07-13T03:12:00.000Z-Re:_BC_and_Vancouver_project_formatting","replies":["c-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-07-13T17:04:00.000Z-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-07-13T03:12:00.000Z"]}}-->
After I added the reference tag, I read your stories on the talk page and was getting sore thighs and saddle muscles as I was reading. It brought back memories of cycle touring (too long ago now) and early morning paper routes with heavy duti Schwinns. Very cool stuff. I have the article on my watchpage now and hope to add more to it. Will try to track down the Thai and Khmer script for the words samlor and cyclo. Both are still a big part of the scene in smaller Thai towns and in Phnom Penh, and a lot of the guys who ride are some very senior characters. It's really something to see. But for now, I will content myself with starting to watch Pedicab Driver as I knock off for the night, and will hopefully start an article about that movie in the near future. Wisekwai 22:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-13T22:13:00.000Z","author":"Wisekwai","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Wisekwai-2006-07-13T22:13:00.000Z-Cycle_rickshaw","replies":["c-Wisekwai-2006-07-14T07:46:00.000Z-Wisekwai-2006-07-13T22:13:00.000Z"]}}-->
User talk:Skookum1/BC&PacificNorthwestHistory is a nice start. You seem to write in a stream of consious way, (i.e. everything that you are thinking goes onto the page), so sometimes it is difficult to follow what you are trying to say.
I suggest maybe using bullet points, and subsections with the == ==.
Anyway, if there is anything I can do to help, and when you add or change the page, let me know. Best wishes. Looking forward to your continued great work. Travb (talk) 04:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-14T04:06:00.000Z","author":"Travb","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Travb-2006-07-14T04:06:00.000Z-Nice_start","replies":[]}}-->
Nice job, I will read your new entry later today. Travb (talk) 21:05, 15 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-15T21:05:00.000Z","author":"Travb","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Travb-2006-07-15T21:05:00.000Z-Nice_job","replies":[]}}-->
Hello, Skookum1/Archive 1!
Thank you for joining WikiProject Middle-earth and contributing to improve Tolkien-related articles. We are glad to have you join in the effort!
Here're some good links and subpages related to our WikiProject.
If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to ask on our talk page.
Thank you for your contributions and have fun editing! Bryan 13:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-16T13:51:00.000Z","author":"Bryan Tong Minh","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bryan_Tong_Minh-2006-07-16T13:51:00.000Z-Welcome_to_the_Middle_Earth_WikiProject!","replies":[],"displayName":"Bryan"}}-->
Hello Skookum1, I know there are allegations of Seymour's alcoholism - but is there compelling evidence that alcoholism resulted in his dysentary and death? Fishhead64 15:16, 16 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-16T15:16:00.000Z","author":"Fishhead64","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fishhead64-2006-07-16T15:16:00.000Z-Seymour","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-07-16T18:33:00.000Z-Fishhead64-2006-07-16T15:16:00.000Z"]}}-->
Thanks for the heads up on those articles. Nice work and some interesting facts there. Most of it is far beyond my knowledge and reading so I can't say anything more objective! Cheers! --Ds13 16:53, 16 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-16T16:53:00.000Z","author":"Ds13","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ds13-2006-07-16T16:53:00.000Z-Fraser_Canyon_War,_McGowan's_War","replies":[]}}-->
Did you perhaps not notice that he's also in Category:Canadian political writers? He can be in fifteen different non-overlapping subcategories of Category:Canadian writers at once if that's as many as apply; he just can't be in the parent category too, because that's the way the classification rules work. Bearcat 07:30, 18 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-18T07:30:00.000Z","author":"Bearcat","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bearcat-2006-07-18T07:30:00.000Z-Terry_Glavin","replies":["c-Bearcat-2006-07-18T07:35:00.000Z-Bearcat-2006-07-18T07:30:00.000Z"]}}-->
For starters, what is you grandfather's name? I'm sure I can pull something off. I'll start by googling him and go from there. Mad Jack 04:19, 20 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-20T04:19:00.000Z","author":"Jack O'Lantern","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jack_O'Lantern-2006-07-20T04:19:00.000Z-Hmmmmm","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-07-20T07:15:00.000Z-Jack_O'Lantern-2006-07-20T04:19:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Mad Jack"}}-->
My sweet, dear Skookum, I've been thinking very much of you in the last days, and everything you said to me. I have much to tell you, and I would have preferred to email you instead, but since you don't have that option enabled, your talk page will do.
In the last days, and for reasons that don't matter here and now, I was feeling very down; it happens sometimes, none of us is above that. I never wanna paly victim in those circumstances; I'm just an ordinary person with ordinary problems, nothing more. I just wanted everyone who visited me to know why I wasn't in the talktative mood I usually am, and to explain why my replies were scanty. The least I expected was the incredible message you sent me, and all the wonderful effort you put in cheering me up... and most important, how you succeeded in your endeavour. the way your words and comfort seemed to stem from the very screen felt like an embrace, and I had re read it many times, and listened to the beautiful music you shared with me... I have no words to describe it. And you did all that for me, a complete stranger... I'll never forget this, my dear Skookum, ever.
I wish to give you my apology for taking so long to reply, but trust me, yours is not, in any imaginable way, one of those messages I can spontaneously and immediately reply without much thought. I've had to gather a lot of courage to actually sit down and express this, and struggled hard to find the words to say it, because rarely I am so heart-rendingly, deeply, extremely, completely and indescribably moved by someone the way you managed to touch to me. You are, to sum it up very quickly, amazing, incredible and breath taking.
There were many other things I wished to tell you about Wiki stuff, but that seems so unimportant right now, that I'd rather leave if for a later moment. Please forgive me for my very emotional response, hun, but you deserve nothing less than this. You've won a friend, no matter what, and one who wishes to keep your friendship way beyond our time at this project. Thank you, with all of me, Phaedriel ♥ The Wiki Soundtrack!♪ - 08:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC) PS. You also have (doubtful) honor of being the recipient of my 5,000 edit to Wikipedia! :) So you are special in every imaginable sense. Hugs! Sharon -__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-22T08:19:00.000Z","author":"Phaedriel","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Phaedriel-2006-07-22T08:19:00.000Z-My_dear_Skookum","replies":[]}}-->
You're welcome! It looks good Mad Jack 17:01, 22 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-22T17:01:00.000Z","author":"Jack O'Lantern","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jack_O'Lantern-2006-07-22T17:01:00.000Z-Cleven","replies":[],"displayName":"Mad Jack"}}-->
test
After reading the note you left on my user talk page, I'm still not sure why Image:Ecleven1.png should be public domain. Are you saying that the image should be public domain, because the copyright on the photo was held by Endre Johannes Cleven himself, who passed away in 1916 (even though the photo was taken by someone else, of course)?
For reference, there is a list of image copyright tags available. Kimchi.sg 08:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-24T08:32:00.000Z","author":"Kimchi.sg","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kimchi.sg-2006-07-24T08:32:00.000Z-PD_rationale_for_Image:Ecleven1.jpg","replies":[]}}-->
I've studied those and they're really confusing in SIMPLE cases like this. Please advise.Skookum1 15:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-24T15:26:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-07-24T15:26:00.000Z-PD_rationale_for_Image:Ecleven1.jpg-1","replies":["c-Kimchi.sg-2006-07-24T15:33:00.000Z-Skookum1-2006-07-24T15:26:00.000Z"]}}-->
Has the image been released to the public before? In other words, have they been given copies of the photo, or has the photo been inside the album untouched all these years? This may seem like a trivial technicality, but it's not. See Wikipedia:Public domain#Publication and then Wikipedia:Public domain#Published vs. unpublished works for what I'm trying to get at. Kimchi.sg 15:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-24T15:49:00.000Z","author":"Kimchi.sg","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kimchi.sg-2006-07-24T15:49:00.000Z-PD_rationale_for_Image:Ecleven1.jpg","replies":[]}}-->
P.S. There's no need to tip me off on my talk page anymore, when you reply. I watch my own contribs list to see whom I've spoken to. Kimchi.sg 15:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-24T15:50:00.000Z","author":"Kimchi.sg","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kimchi.sg-2006-07-24T15:50:00.000Z-PD_rationale_for_Image:Ecleven1.jpg","replies":[]}}-->
To my knowledge it has never been published; it was his keepsake. A similar photo is in the Canadian National Archives online holdings but it, too, was donated by the family.Skookum1 16:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-24T16:10:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-07-24T16:10:00.000Z-PD_rationale_for_Image:Ecleven1.jpg","replies":["c-Kimchi.sg-2006-07-24T16:52:00.000Z-Skookum1-2006-07-24T16:10:00.000Z"]}}-->
Thanks; I was wondering about PD-self, since it says in its texting: "I created this work"; which I didn't exactly; I only scanned it; but if that's the best one to use, I'll use it. Thx again.Skookum1 17:22, 24 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-24T17:22:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-07-24T17:22:00.000Z-PD_rationale_for_Image:Ecleven1.jpg","replies":[]}}-->
Hi. I used the BC relief map you've uploaded to Wikipedia commons to create a series of locator maps on BC Mountain Ranges; e.g. Shulaps Range, Camelsfoot Range, Pacific Ranges and more. I see this is based on USGS data and I'm wondering if the same scale is available for WA/ID/MT as the Columbia Mountains, Selkirk Mountains, Purcell Range, Monashee Mountains, Cascade Range and Okanagan Highland "spill" across the border and it would be better to do locator maps showing this; might have to be resized differently I guess after creation of a BC-MT-WA-ID map, but on the other hand it wouldn't be necessary to have such a map going farther north than 54 or 55 degrees north, as the Columbias (as defined in Wiki) only go as far north as the northern end of the Cariboo Mountains (q.v.). There's also been calls on Talk:Pacific Northwest and also on Talk:Cascadia for a good regional map, terrain or otherwise. Any chance you could whip one up that spans the border (and I guess also shows it, too) that I could use as a basemap? Similarly one that covers northern BC, say from Terrace or Bella Coola northwards, and includes the Alaska Panhandle, as Boundary Ranges needs to be drawn across both sides of the border; and the Cassiar Mountains and Saint Elias Mountains also span the YT/AK borders. Thanks; if and when you ever get the time..... 17:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)Skookum1
That's a good one! - it'll help illustrate all the northern Mountain Ranges (other than the Brooks Range) - the Chugach, the Alaska Range, the St. Elias, the Selwyns and obscure ones like the Chutine and Atsutla Ranges and others; plus the Alaska Highway and Stewart-Cassiar Highway and the old Collins Telegraph route and more; Stikine Plateau, Grand Canyon of the Stikine (currently only as the Stikine River article; waiting to find photos/details on the canyon), Spatsizi Plateau, Tagish Highland, Tahltan Highland etc maybe even "routes into the Klondike" which I think should be an article, by whatever title ("List of routes to the Klondike" maybe, or just a map, we'll see). The Vancouver Island one would be handier if it were extended east to include the Fraser Canyon in toto, maybe as far east as Merritt-Aspen Grove-Princeton, or even as far as beyond the Okanagan; and as far north as to include Clinton at least; but the scale is good. The one showing c.Prince George south to almost-the-Columbia would be useful if it also included the Columbia and the Palouse region; to illustrate Okanagan Trail, for example. Not meaning to make work for you - are these generated from GEMS/TRIM data by some mapping program? I've tried learning how to do that but never could work out the mapping softwares...gotta make lunch and get out of here; thanks for the new map, and I'll try and be more specific with the other parameters later; maybe by cropping the big ones to show you the useful areas needed for various articles/contexts....by the way do you know anything about Wiki-usage for USGS maps, and for things from BC Basemap (see http://maps.gov.bc.ca)? Want to use comparisons of respective maps from these two sources for the A-B Line (see Dixon Entrance, where someone has already posted the USGS map of that area, I don't know how legitimately)Skookum1 22:17, 28 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-28T22:17:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-07-28T22:17:00.000Z-Re_Image:BC-relief.png","replies":["c-Qyd-2006-07-29T01:30:00.000Z-Skookum1-2006-07-28T22:17:00.000Z"]}}-->
I like the idea. I agree that some "close-up" maps would be great, maybe a close-up for each regional district. However, I don't think there are any good ones besides the GVRD one. And I suck at making maps... I wonder if any of the map makers would be willing to give it a shot? -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 21:48, 25 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-25T21:48:00.000Z","author":"Buchanan-Hermit","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-07-25T21:48:00.000Z-Re:_Mountain_ranges_for_BC","replies":[]}}-->
Alrighty then. I wasn't sure how "coastal" an island needed to be to apply, so I decided to put it there and see what happens. -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 07:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-29T07:17:00.000Z","author":"Buchanan-Hermit","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-07-29T07:17:00.000Z-Re:Barnston_Island","replies":["c-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-07-29T07:31:00.000Z-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-07-29T07:17:00.000Z"]}}-->
There will be an article eventually. Still trying to finish the many red links already on the main Winnipeg article. jdobbin 19:20, 29 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-29T19:20:00.000Z","author":"Jdobbin","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jdobbin-2006-07-29T19:20:00.000Z-Walker_Theatre","replies":[]}}-->
I'd say whichever name you'd prefer, and if someone wants to move it, there can be a discussion on the talk page. --Usgnus 03:30, 31 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-31T03:30:00.000Z","author":"Usgnus","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Usgnus-2006-07-31T03:30:00.000Z-Frank_Gott","replies":[]}}-->
Thanks for uploading Image:BCRelief InteriorPlateau.png. Wikipedia gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.
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Fraser's journals are not specific, but they clearly suggest that he went far enough to know that he had left a river channel, ie., past Iona Island. Whether it was as far as Point Grey is unclear - but that would be the maximum extent of his foray. Perhaps the addition of the word "approximately" would convey the lingering uncertainty. Fishhead64 21:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-31T21:06:00.000Z","author":"Fishhead64","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fishhead64-2006-07-31T21:06:00.000Z-Fraser","replies":[]}}-->
Hmm; then it must have been Matthews or Morley's conjecture based on a misreading of his journals; I thought he never saw the open water, and was driven back before he could by the Musqueams.Skookum1 21:07, 31 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-31T21:07:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-07-31T21:07:00.000Z-Fraser","replies":["c-Fishhead64-2006-07-31T21:11:00.000Z-Skookum1-2006-07-31T21:07:00.000Z"]}}-->
I'll dig out Morley's passage for your later; I sold my Matthews a few months ago (starving actor/musician/writer/b-builder, needed food....) but there's a few other things around here; my Akrigg I loaned to a friend who's under the weather; but they often editorialize a lot of stuff anyway.Skookum1 21:13, 31 July 2006 (UTC) PS are you going to join the BC Wikiproject, even just as a "supporter" (those who support the idea but are unprepared to dedicate more wikitime to it)?Skookum1 21:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-07-31T21:13:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-07-31T21:13:00.000Z-Fraser","replies":[]}}-->
Thanks for uploading Image:Northwest-relief HazeltonMountains.jpg. Wikipedia gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.
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Sorry about the missed neighbourhoods. I'm getting the information off of a paper map from 2000, so I guess those neighbourhoods weren't shown on it. They aren't in alphabetical order; I just type them out in the order I find them on the map. Carson 21:56, 12 August 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-08-12T21:56:00.000Z","author":"Carson Lam","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Carson_Lam-2006-08-12T21:56:00.000Z-Maple_Ridge_Neighbourhoods","replies":[],"displayName":"Carson"}}-->
Regarding Jackson, BC...i meant the one near Dease Lake, British Columbia along the proposed/abandoned BC Rail line, near their "Chipmunk, British Columbia" stop. I meant the town of Jacksons, on the Stikine River. User:Raccoon Fox • Talk • Stalk 18:13, 13 August 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-08-13T18:13:00.000Z","author":"Raccoon Fox","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Raccoon_Fox-2006-08-13T18:13:00.000Z-Jackson,_British_Columbia","replies":[],"displayName":"User:Raccoon Fox"}}-->
If that line were to have been completed...would it have eventually linked up with the Alaska Railroad? Are there any plans to finish the line and serve northern British Columbia, the Yukon, Northwest Territories/Yellowknife, and Alaska? User:Raccoon Fox • Talk • Stalk 18:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-08-13T18:30:00.000Z","author":"Raccoon Fox","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Raccoon_Fox-2006-08-13T18:30:00.000Z-Jackson,_British_Columbia","replies":[],"displayName":"User:Raccoon Fox"}}-->
I agree, Gastown is worth mentioning. I'll try tweaking the sentence. Let's see what can be done here... -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 00:46, 15 August 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-08-15T00:46:00.000Z","author":"Buchanan-Hermit","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Buchanan-Hermit-2006-08-15T00:46:00.000Z-Re:Chinatown","replies":[]}}-->
I replied to you comments on my talk page [11]. Cheers. older ≠ wiser 11:15, 20 August 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-08-20T11:15:00.000Z","author":"Bkonrad","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bkonrad-2006-08-20T11:15:00.000Z-List_of_Chinook_Jargon_placenames_-_categories","replies":[],"displayName":"older"}}-->
Hi Mike--I replied on my talk page.
Skookum, you've let me know about some good BC (Squamish, etc.) developments on my talk page. Appreciate it. I have less time online at the moment, so I don't think I can keep up for now. Maybe in the fall, though. Cheers. --Ds13 19:20, 23 August 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-08-23T19:20:00.000Z","author":"Ds13","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ds13-2006-08-23T19:20:00.000Z-Thanks_for_the_heads-up","replies":[]}}-->
Hey, Skookum.
I was cleaning up some links to the article on the region in Texas called the Big Bend. As it turned out, I had to move this article to a new one called Big Bend, Texas. The original Big Bend article is now a disambiguation link.
In checking the "What links here", I found an article on the town of Savona, in which you added a reference to "the goldfields of the Big Bend of the Columbia river". It is not immediately clear to me which "big bend" you are referring to, or which article you intended to link to. Is this the Big Bend in central Washington state? If so, perhaps we can create a stub for Big Bend (Washington State) or somesuch (doesn't seem to be much consensus on naming conventions for regions).
Thanks
demonburrito 04:32, 2 September 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-09-02T04:32:00.000Z","author":"Demonburrito","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Demonburrito-2006-09-02T04:32:00.000Z-Savona,_BC_and_the_\"Big_Bend\"_of_the_Columbia_River","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-09-02T06:51:00.000Z-Demonburrito-2006-09-02T04:32:00.000Z"]}}-->
In January 2006, I proposed that this CanCon Barnstar be awarded to those who make significant or "important contributions about Canada or Canadians." Since then, others have awarded it to those Wikipedians whose contributions fit the criteria I proposed. But I never did so myself. (Although it has since grown into a Barnstar of National Merit, the resolution of my initial proposal was to turn it into a personal user award, which I then never awarded.)
Having reviewed Skookum's contributions, however, I am happy to recognize his work as being reflective of the spirit I had intended for the award: this Barnstar of National Merit is therefore given not only for creating new Canadian works, but also (and additionally in this case) for advocating (e.g., at the journalist talk page) on behalf of the importance of CanCon on Wikipedia.
Cheers (and thank you), JTBurman 19:19, 6 September 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-09-06T19:19:00.000Z","author":"JTBurman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JTBurman-2006-09-06T19:19:00.000Z-CanCon_Award","replies":[]}}-->
I'm not personally familiar with it, so I couldn't really say; all I know is that it was already being categorized as a museum when I came along and created the Category:Museums in Vancouver subcategory. From the article, though, it sounds to me like it can be characterized as a museum in the same sense as Sainte-Marie among the Hurons, Upper Canada Village or other living museums. With the trend in museums over the past twenty or thirty years being toward much more interactivity, the boundary between museums and other types of visitor attractions has gotten blurry at times, yeah, but at least to my mind the difference between Storyeum and a theme park like Disneyland would be that Storyeum's primary purpose is educational, while the primary purpose of something like Disneyland, Six Flags or Canada's Wonderland is entertainment. The presence or absence of a roller coaster, for example, makes a pretty big difference as to which side of that dividing line something falls on. Bearcat 19:54, 7 September 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-09-07T19:54:00.000Z","author":"Bearcat","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bearcat-2006-09-07T19:54:00.000Z-Storyeum","replies":[]}}-->
In that case, another entry should be added to the disambiguation page for the river. --NE2 18:08, 10 September 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-09-10T18:08:00.000Z","author":"NE2","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-NE2-2006-09-10T18:08:00.000Z-Powell_River","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-09-10T20:57:00.000Z-NE2-2006-09-10T18:08:00.000Z"]}}-->
To answer the question you posed in your edit summary, is {{convertIPA}} the template you were looking for? --TeaDrinker 21:33, 11 September 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-09-11T21:33:00.000Z","author":"TeaDrinker","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-TeaDrinker-2006-09-11T21:33:00.000Z-{{convertIPA}}","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-09-11T21:42:00.000Z-TeaDrinker-2006-09-11T21:33:00.000Z"]}}-->
Ahh, so you were the guy overcharging for that crappy beer at those late night parties! If you want to change back the neighbourhood designation to "West Hastings," feel free. I had never heard of it, but I'm not always paying attention. As a street, it extends well away from that 'hood so it struck me as confusing. I've also been thinking about starting a sub-category under neighbourhoods for dead, transformed, and/or redesignated areas, such as Hogan's Alley, Japantown, and Little Italy. I've only been here since '93, and I'm sure there's more that I've never heard of but would be interested to find out. It wasn't long after I moved here that I first heard of Crosstown. If I remember correctly, it was from an article about the name being used for that area, but it seemed to be an effort by developers chomping at the bit just when the live/work zoning laws were changing. Crosstown Traffic (cafe or whatever it was) was already there at that point, though, and the article wasn't claiming that developers were being original. Becasue of that, that area always reminded me of Jimi Hendrix. I haven't heard anyone use that name for a long time though. And then there's SoMa, the new Mt Pleasant... Bobanny 23:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-09-23T23:24:00.000Z","author":"Bobanny","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bobanny-2006-09-23T23:24:00.000Z-Victory_Square","replies":[]}}-->
Aside from the main Category:First Nations in British Columbia, there are categories called Category:First Nations governments in British Columbia and Category:First Nations reserves in British Columbia. For those articles that deal specifically with either the government or the reserve, I've left them in those categories. However, most articles about "First Nations" deal with the land, the people, and the government all together. I was working primarily with Dakelh nations and found it's hard to narrow the definition of a "First Nation" to any of the three. It's a band (therefore both a people and its government) but there are signs saying "Now entering blah blah" first nation, meaning a territory. Really, it's the same as Canada, with its own category, with subgroups about politics, history, people, etc.
I figured the easiest way to divide them up was by cultural group, so I've done that with large cultural groups that contain many nations or reserves, Category:Dakelh, Category:Kaska Dena, Category:Nisga'a, Category:Nlaka'pamux, Category:Nuu-chah-nulth, Category:Stó:lō, Category:Sťáťimc, Category:Tlingit, Category:Tsimshian, etc.
Because these groups don't fit easily into modern provinces/states, it makes more sense to divide them up this way, so that two Tlingit Nations can be in the same group, even if one is within American boundaries, the other within Canadian.
I thought about dividing them up by language, but there are some obvious problems with linking people by language.
Tell me what you think. So far, the feedback has been positive. -- TheMightyQuill 19:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-09-26T19:18:00.000Z","author":"Themightyquill","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Themightyquill-2006-09-26T19:18:00.000Z-N'quat'qua","replies":[]}}-->
It's all good, I was just trying to get things to conform to the structure of articles as laid out in the Indigenous Peoples Wikiproject (see template on Talk:N'quat'qua to get there) where there's an effort to distinguish between (ahem) people, land and governments; that is to say, ethno articles, territories, and actual governments; even when there's overlap (NB languages are a fourth category); the reason is because in many governments more than one tribe/ethnicity is included, likewise with particular reserves/reservations (common in the US, and occasionally here also). That's why the distinctions I was laying into in my message; quite often in BC there will be what appears to be duplication; but I think if you dig around even Dakelh you'll see that there are some organizations which bridge different culturegroups, e.g. the Carrier-Ulkatcho which combines Carrier and Chilcotin in one government, and also combines several different reserves; with the main Chilcotin a separate organization, sometimes including (I think) the Canyon Shuswap (e.g. Alkali Lake). Basically, it's a rat's nest of definitions; to bend your head even a little farther check out Somena and Talk:Somena, which is a bit of a one-off but gives you an idea of the difference between "our" perceptions of people/government and the way things were (or which the contributor at Somena maintains there were).....Skookum1 21:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-09-26T21:01:00.000Z","author":"Skookum1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Skookum1-2006-09-26T21:01:00.000Z-N'quat'qua","replies":[]}}-->
Actually, that category was there already. I just added Category:First Nations in British Columbia and the NAm-Native stub. I understand your point, and it's definitely teleology, but the problem is a big one, and I'm not sure how to fix it. See Category:Years in Canada which goes all the way back to the 11th century, long before British North America or New Caledonia. =) --TheMightyQuill 02:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-09-29T02:09:00.000Z","author":"Themightyquill","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Themightyquill-2006-09-29T02:09:00.000Z-Fraser_Canyon_War","replies":[]}}-->
Again, I understand your concern, but I don't think it's an issue in this case. I didn't add the cat to Seton Portage because there are Sťáťimc people there, but because of the road block. Ideally, the road block deserves its own article, but it doesn't have one at present. If it wasn't for that fact, I wouldn't have given it the cat (similarly, I haven't given every other city/village in BC a cat based on whose land they're on).
Just because it has a Sťáťimc category, doesn't suggest to the reader that it's only a Sťáťimc community. It should be clear from the article that it isn't soley a Sťáťimc community. Not that you can't have more than one category...
As for N'quatqua, a D'Arcy article should obviously be written, and I wouldn't expect a Sťáťimc cat on that page.
On the Squamish Nation vs Skwxwu7mesh Uxwumixw, I might be willing agree with you in this case, but not necessarily as a general rule. It doesn't really matter anyway, as long as there are sufficient redirects, and the issue is addressed in the article. In a lot of cases, the indigenous names/spellings are now the official names, listed in status cards etc. I'd prefer accuracy over common usage, especially when the redirects are there to catch any lost souls. In the case of Sťáťimc, I think it's actually much less confusing than Lilooet, because of the city, the people, the band and the tribal council that all claim that name. -- TheMightyQuill 10:11, 30 September 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-09-30T10:11:00.000Z","author":"Themightyquill","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Themightyquill-2006-09-30T10:11:00.000Z-Seton_Portage","replies":[]}}-->
I don't feel I'm reinventing the wheel, so much as fixing it.
First of all, many indigenous cultural groups already have their own categories (eg. Category:Blackfoot tribe, Category:Iroquois, Category:Ojibwa tribe. BC hasn't done this, and it doesn't make sense not to. A lot of the articles I've added to categories were totally orphaned, or in overly broad categories. I don't think the current divisions along state/provincial lines makes sense, and I'm working here to find a better solution.
Second, I know tribal governments incorporate people from two different cultures. Most of the work I've done has been with the Dakelh people, whose tribal gov't is the Carrier Sekani Tribal Council. Again, an article can be part of two different categories, so this isn't a problem at all. As for languages, I'm not interested in grouping people by language. I think it's kind of stupid. One wouldn't categorise the united states and germany in one group, brazil and Rwanda in another, simply because their official languages happen to share the same origin. Why would we do the same with indigenous nations?
Third, have fun in Lilooet. I hope the weather stays nice for you. I just drove along the Fraser River Canyon last week and had a really nice time. -- TheMightyQuill 23:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-10-04T23:15:00.000Z","author":"Themightyquill","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Themightyquill-2006-10-04T23:15:00.000Z-reinventing_the_wheel","replies":["c-Skookum1-2006-10-04T23:32:00.000Z-Themightyquill-2006-10-04T23:15:00.000Z"]}}-->
So far, I'm created Category:Secwepemc, Category:Gwich’in, Category:Haida, Category:Tsimshian, Category:Sťáťimc, Category:Nisga'a, and Category:Dakelh.
Category:Dene and Category:Kwakwaka'wakw already existed but I added a bunch to them.
Your Chief Nicola article is really interesting. I had no idea the name came from Nicholas... Where are you getting the info from? Keep up the good work. -- TheMightyQuill 06:02, 5 October 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-10-05T06:02:00.000Z","author":"Themightyquill","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Themightyquill-2006-10-05T06:02:00.000Z-reinventing_the_wheel","replies":[]}}-->
Thanks for noticing. It was a pain to find. I think I might even report it as a mediawiki bug. That reminds me, I have to add the comment back in (I removed it while trying to debug). The original problem was that you had included an extra close quote somewhere further down in the article, so it assumed something, which messed the whole first paragraph up. Cheers! --Storkk 00:06, 5 October 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-10-05T00:06:00.000Z","author":"Storkk","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Storkk-2006-10-05T00:06:00.000Z-Nicola","replies":["c-Storkk-2006-10-05T00:29:00.000Z-Storkk-2006-10-05T00:06:00.000Z","c-Storkk-2006-10-05T00:38:00.000Z-Storkk-2006-10-05T00:06:00.000Z"]}}-->
Yup... a smoke sounds very good..... :-). Seeya. Storkk 00:41, 5 October 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-10-05T00:41:00.000Z","author":"Storkk","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Storkk-2006-10-05T00:41:00.000Z-Nicola","replies":[]}}-->
Thanks, Skookum 1 for your interesting comments on my comments about migration to North America. I now live in Cooktown, Australia but was around Vancouver at periods in the 1960s and early 70s (was involved with the "underground City Governemt, the Georgia Straight, etc., etc.) and wonder from the photo on you "Talk" page whether we might have met at some time? In any case, best wishes from Down Under! Cheers, John Hill 23:10, 16 October 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-10-16T23:10:00.000Z","author":"John Hill","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-John_Hill-2006-10-16T23:10:00.000Z-Comments_on_Models_of_Migration_ot_the_new_World","replies":[]}}-->
Are you still looking for that base map of the Pacific Northwest, as listed on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps/Requested and orphan maps page? I might be able to come up with something. Let me know, MapMaster 03:05, 18 October 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-10-18T03:05:00.000Z","author":"MapMaster","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-MapMaster-2006-10-18T03:05:00.000Z-Still_looking_for_that_base_map_of_the_Pacific_Northwest,","replies":[]}}-->
Hey, Skookum; I haven't read it, but there's a book called Park Prisoners by Bill Waiser about relief camps and Japanese internment in federal parks (and maybe provincial ones as well). He also wrote a very engaging account of the On-to-Ottawa Trek, All Hell Can't Stop Us. One of the more interesting relief camps was the one in Point Grey that doubled as one of the two militia units ready to move in if the formal request was made to the feds (the other unit was in Victoria). Needless to say, that militia unit wasn't considered too reliable once the relief camp strike began, and sure enough, many of them joined the strike.
One thing that tends to get lost because these events are usually treated as a national phenomenon is that the concern over a general strike (as a prelude to revolution) was to do with the waterfront situation, not relief camp workers, at least in the eyes of local authorities. Of course, a joining of forces between the 2 groups was the biggest fear of the government (and the goal of the commies), but the relief camp strikers were treated as a crowd control/public nuissance problem by the police because it was clear that most of the men were not into communism and, despite the behind the scenes maneuvering by commie agitators, the strike was conducted with democratic decision-making at public meetings. Of course it wasn't the same thinking in Ottawa - RB Bennett, for example, claimed that the On-to-Ottawa delegation was sent to kidnap him, based partly on paranoia and partly on RCMP intelligence failures.
As for the specials, there wasn't really a clear line dividing bona fide public police from the private forces, although there was a big shift in 1935 compared with other labour conflicts in that the city police was firmly behind the employers (who pretty much comandeered city hall for that reason by getting Gerry McGeer elected - also turned out to be sort of a dry run for the NPA, which formed 2 years later by the same crowd). Also, police spies, not private detectives, were being used, unlike earlier strike situations. Many of the specials were ostensibly recruited as "probationers" through the VCPD's new training school. There were probably around 750 specials affiliated with the 3 levels of police, but it's not clear what private forces were mobilized beyond that or whether business focused their resources solely (besides propaganda) on supplying the public police forces (such as the fleet of cars that was donated to the city police). I believe the local Legion of Frontiersmen were also revived in preparation of a showdown with the commies (fairly obscure group, sort a boy scouts for grown ups, but quite active in BC, especially before WWI - let me know if you've come across them, as you seem to be more up on earlier and province-wide history than me). General Odlum was leading some contingent or other as well as part of Mayor McGeer's promise to mobilize 10,000 like-minded citizens if necessary. In any case, the Beatty Street Drill Hall was a very busy place in the mid-30s. Most of the published On-to-Ottawa Trek stuff has been done by historians from the prairies, (not too surprising given the Regina Riot). But it seems to me there's an untold and even more of a thrill-a-minute tale that's more a north/south, Pacific Coast thing than the obligatory east/west flow in Canadian history. I could go on and on about this stuff, and eventually I'll try and get something published, but I'll stop here.
Oh yeah, on another note, HongCouver has far more delete and/or merge comments on its AfD page, but its been more than the 5 days but no action's been taken by the Lords of Wiki - in case you want to get your 2 cents in there. cheers, Bobanny 21:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-10-26T21:32:00.000Z","author":"Bobanny","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bobanny-2006-10-26T21:32:00.000Z-re_1930s","replies":["c-Bobanny-2006-10-27T06:11:00.000Z-Bobanny-2006-10-26T21:32:00.000Z"]}}-->
Thought i'd use a new heading since the above section is getting pretty unwieldy. Pretty much every source has a bias or POV (despite Wikipedia's pretensions). People who experience the same event will give conflicting interpretations even if they have no obvious agenda to push. The best anyone can do is to be aware of what that POV is, and try and draw on as many sources as possible and weigh them. Usually when I pick up a history book these days I'll scan through the bibliography to see what sources the author draws from. (I did peruse Morton's book on the Chinese last time I was at the library, and noticed he used exclusively newspapers!)Often newspapers - love 'em or hate 'em - are the only documented source available (less and less so, however), and as the cliche goes, are the first draft of history. I generally agree with you though about newspapers being unreliable at best, but all too often are dispicable liars (I was in Montreal during Oka, and have sat through Splitting the Sky's blow-by-blow accounts of Gustafson Lake). After going through a lot of interwar newspapers, I've come to think that newspapers were a lot better back then. Everyone knew who the owner was, what party he supported, and what slant to expect in the editorials. It was very partisan, which IMO is a good thing. If I want dirt on Gerry McGeer, it'll be in the Conservative News-Herald; that thing about RB Bennett's anti-communist paranoia I mentioned is from the Liberal Vancouver Sun and was implicitly mocking him when an election was on the horizon. There's little of that these days in Canadian media, at least not in an upfront way. They all pretend to be some sort of neutral fourth estate acting as a watchdog, or claim to be reflecting public opinion, as you mentioned. Personally, I preferred the National Post when Conrad Black owned it for this very reason, even though I think he's an idiot like every other non-blueblooded Canadian. Another thing that made the newspapers superior back in the day is that often they would transcribe a lot of stuff verbatim, rather than the stick-words-in-someone's-mouth style today. Your Globe and Mail anecdote during Solidarity reminds me of something I've also noticed doing primary research recently, which is that newspapers from other cities will often have a slightly different take or different information than the local press. Although I haven't found definite confirmation of a machine gun at ballantyne pier for example, I did find a little clip from the Montreal Star about a big shipment of machine gun ammo coming to the VPD around the same time. Another example is the biggest police corruption scandal in Vancouver in 1955. The story was broken by a trashy tabloid produced in Toronto called "Flash," even though the journalist was a regular contributor to the Province at the time.Bobanny 03:21, 29 October 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-10-29T03:21:00.000Z","author":"Bobanny","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bobanny-2006-10-29T03:21:00.000Z-Newspapers","replies":[]}}-->
Thanks for that, the notes will be useful and/or interesting I am sure. By the way, the red link on your user page to Joseph Martin (politician) will light up better if you change it to Joseph Martin (Canadian politician) and when you do that one on the Wild McLean Boys, there is something at John Andrew Mara about it. Cheers and thanks! KenWalker | Talk 03:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC) Not sure what to call the Wild McLean/MacLean (whichever) Boys, other than by that title; it's either that or by their first names, starting with Allan; it's also got significance as being in the aftermath of an aborted Shuswap-Thompson-Okanagan revolt against outsiders early in the 1870s, which was called off by the abstention of the Adams Lake Band, then under the control of a religious zealot, and Chief Chilliheetza (Nicola's son; I think also by the good offices of Dufferin, who made a good impression with native peoples. Not sure what to call that episode either, as BC history hasn't given it a name, nor barely acknowledged that it ever (almost) happened. I have a friend over right now so will get back to Joseph Martin tomorrow or next.Skookum1 05:29, 30 October 2006 (UTC)__DTREPLYBUTTONSCONTENT__-->__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2006-10-30T03:58:00.000Z","author":"KenWalker","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-KenWalker-2006-10-30T03:58:00.000Z-Joseph_Martin","replies":[]}}-->
This month Skeena River was selected for improvement.
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