Happy New Year!

Martinevans123,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
–Davey2010 ^{Merry Xmas / Happy New Year} 00:38, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-01T00:38:00.000Z","author":"Davey2010","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Davey2010-2018-01-01T00:38:00.000Z-Happy_New_Year,_Martinevans123!","replies":[]}}-->

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Precious

Five years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:04, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T08:04:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T08:04:00.000Z-Precious_five_years!","replies":["c-Robevans123-2018-01-03T13:07:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T08:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well done my precious. But the road is a bit long and goes on and on and on... Robevans123 (talk) 13:07, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T13:07:00.000Z","author":"Robevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Robevans123-2018-01-03T13:07:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T08:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T13:46:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-01-03T13:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

Just leave my ring out of it, if you don't mind. Funny, but it seems more like 11 long years.... Fret ye not, I'm not gonna let them catch me.... Midnightevans123 (talk) 13:46, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T13:46:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T13:46:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-01-03T13:07:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T14:53:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T13:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

Take the ring from the Main page, the first English Brünnhilde, the 100th women's biography after joining women in red. Remembering the Welsh, of course, who helped me pleading at a time, but the time for pleading is over, I decided to dance and to let go, and now to rejoice and serve ;) - Sing a new song, - I thought that was Psalm 149, others say Psalm 98, - guess what? We are all right, alright? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:53, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T14:53:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T14:53:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T13:46:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T15:07:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T14:53:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for reminding me that Catherine is there. But so many rings!! What's this place coming to?? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:07, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T15:07:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T15:07:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T14:53:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T15:32:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T15:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

circles? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:32, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T15:32:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T15:32:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T15:07:00.000Z","replies":["c-Robevans123-2018-01-03T15:45:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T15:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

ever decreasing? Robevans123 (talk) 15:45, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T15:45:00.000Z","author":"Robevans123","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Robevans123-2018-01-03T15:45:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T15:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T16:40:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-01-03T15:45:00.000Z"]}}-->

a comedy? you can't be serious ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:40, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T16:40:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T16:40:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-01-03T15:45:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T16:48:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T16:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hmm, fair point. We think of you, Gerda, as that simple peasant girl, who always tries rescue something. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:48, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T16:48:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T16:48:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T16:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T17:24:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T16:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

Here's a quote from the singer who never had training as an actress: "I worked for almost 15 years in a hospital and had many experiences with young and old people, with children, rich and poor, happy and sad people. This is the experience I bring to the stage." - She was quite impressive. In the final monologue, she looks at her mobile, letting images of past happy times pass ;) - Siegfried was Lance Ryan, the one who made Andreas Schager's career by not arriving in time. Now Schager sang the premiere, but I saw Ryan who was very funny at times, especially talking to the three attractive girls at the bar Zum Rheingold bar (pictured). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:24, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T17:24:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-03T17:24:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T16:48:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Today: ... that the English tenor Mark Milhofer appeared as Mozart's Ferrando in Beijing and Moscow, and as Poppea's nurse in Berlin, dressed as a parody of Riff Raff? Remembering a sad day, parody feels good. Going to write moar "out of the deep" though, - Rutter composed it for first cello solo, then alto same melody, deep deep deep. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:46, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-18T17:46:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-18T17:46:00.000Z-Precious_five_years!","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-18T22:05:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-18T17:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for updating me, Gerda! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-18T22:05:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-18T22:05:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-18T17:46:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-26T00:05:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-18T22:05:00.000Z"]}}-->

Weichet nur, betrübte Schatten, BWV 202, - remember, heard that in Tallinn? ----Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:05, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-26T00:05:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-26T00:05:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-18T22:05:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-27T12:41:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-26T00:05:00.000Z"]}}-->

.... Danielle de Niese lets it rip. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:41, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-27T12:41:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-27T12:41:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-26T00:05:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

? Uhm... If you would like to nominate me here : [2]. I would have no objections (here's hoping) to one of these WP glad-rags . P.S. My cat would like one too. Her size is SSS (very small), chest size 11 inches. Aspro (talk) 23:00, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T23:00:00.000Z","author":"Aspro","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Aspro-2018-01-03T23:00:00.000Z-WP_t-Shirts","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T23:05:00.000Z-Aspro-2018-01-03T23:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

But, of course, my pleasure. You coyly forget your own size. I can't guarantee the cat - in this panto season, suggest she sticks to posh footwear? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:05, 3 January 2018 (UTC) "Whaddya say, fellas? Nice setta good articles? Now Mary, how's about shakin' it around a little..."[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-03T23:05:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-03T23:05:00.000Z-Aspro-2018-01-03T23:00:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Or, in other words, Wikipedia. Lol'ed at your comment. The reason I linked that song, aside from the reference to the hope and glory of Wikipedia itself, was that it was linked in the Christmas Truce page but, interestingly, the song being used during the Christmas Truce is not discussed on the "Land of Hope and Glory" page. I'll add it later if you or someone else doesn't add it before that. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:59, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-05T11:59:00.000Z","author":"Randy Kryn","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Randy_Kryn-2018-01-05T11:59:00.000Z-Land_of_Hope_and_Glory","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-05T12:06:00.000Z-Randy_Kryn-2018-01-05T11:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

That has always struck me as a very strange choice by the Allied troops. One imagines that a Christmas carol would have been a lot safer. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:06, 5 January 2018 (UTC) p.s. if "Queens Gambit" is good enough for William Hartston it's good enough for me. But I think I'll stay out of that one for now.[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-05T12:06:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-05T12:06:00.000Z-Randy_Kryn-2018-01-05T11:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Randy_Kryn-2018-01-05T12:15:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-05T12:06:00.000Z"]}}-->

Because of your addition I was further pondering the Christmas truce and, as an adequate-to-semi-good Wikipedia, I want and added a Category:Christmas truce! Thanks for the inspiration. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:15, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-05T12:15:00.000Z","author":"Randy Kryn","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Randy_Kryn-2018-01-05T12:15:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-05T12:06:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I am well known to the SG team and the edits are true. Please source your changes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RushDiggity (talk • contribs) 21:35, 6 January 2018 UTC (UTC)

You need to source your changes as you adding new, unsourced, information to Saint-Gobain. I'm just reverting you, to the version of the article agreed by consensus. I don't need to source anything. You were recently making the same unsourced edits as an anonymous IP, so I warned you on your Talk page: User talk:31.52.29.124. If you are, as you claim "well known to the SG team", you need to stop editing altogether and read WP:COI. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-06T21:40:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T21:40:00.000Z-Disputing_Fact","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T21:51:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T21:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've got nothing against hermits, thanks. Especially pale ones. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:51, 6 January 2018 (UTC) the ones geolocating to Peterborough, I'm not so sure... [3][reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-06T21:51:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T21:51:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T21:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

	The Original Barnstar
	im sorry daddy Catchmemartinevans (talk) 21:52, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-06T21:52:00.000Z","author":"Catchmemartinevans","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Catchmemartinevans-2018-01-06T21:52:00.000Z-A_barnstar_for_you!","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T21:53:00.000Z-Catchmemartinevans-2018-01-06T21:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

You will be when you're indefinitely blocked. Kind regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:53, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-06T21:53:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T21:53:00.000Z-Catchmemartinevans-2018-01-06T21:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Sorry, I couldn't find a "space slice" but my sister Dolly does have a rather lovely cake slice, you might like to use. Martinevans123

willfully against consensus, or disruptive, any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia is not vandalism. For example, edit warring over how exactly to present encyclopedic content is not vandalism. Careful consideration may be required to differentiate between edits that are beneficial, edits that are detrimental but well-intentioned, and edits that are vandalism. Mislabeling good-faith edits as vandalism can be considered harmful."

Especially by sockpuppets? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:58, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-06T21:58:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T21:58:00.000Z-\"Even_if_misguided,","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T22:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T21:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

Perhaps I could tempt you with one of my sister Cissy's rather lovely Upside-down cakes?? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:22, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-06T22:22:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T22:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-06T21:58:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

You say roonstone, I say rynestone – let's call the whole thing off. ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones ^{The Welsh Buzzard} ‑ ‑ 14:25, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-08T14:25:00.000Z","author":"Gareth Griffith-Jones","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-01-08T14:25:00.000Z-Finology","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-08T14:32:00.000Z-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-01-08T14:25:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Gareth Griffith\u2011Jones"}}-->

Gareth, you're such a wiki cowboy. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:32, 8 January 2018 (UTC) ... but all done in the best possible taste....[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-08T14:32:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-08T14:32:00.000Z-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-01-08T14:25:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Raymond Thomas: 29 December 1941 – 4 January 2018

There are times when I think I've found the truth

There are times when I know that I'm wrong

And the days when I try to hide my fears

Bless the days when I'm feeling strong

... don't tell me

.... But time will tell of stars that fell, A million years ago. Memories can never take you back, Home, sweet, home

Per guidelines I should have collapsed instead of removing since you had commented. I hope you can forgive me even if the rest of the community can't. ―Mandruss ☎ 20:59, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-11T20:59:00.000Z","author":"Mandruss","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mandruss-2018-01-11T20:59:00.000Z-Oops","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-11T21:09:00.000Z-Mandruss-2018-01-11T20:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

I may just bring myself. But I don't think Paul will. And I was on the brink of 13 down too, damn you!! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:09, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-11T21:09:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-11T21:09:00.000Z-Mandruss-2018-01-11T20:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Mandruss-2018-01-11T21:17:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-11T21:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

(The guy has been indeffed per NOTHERE btw) ―Mandruss ☎ 21:17, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-11T21:17:00.000Z","author":"Mandruss","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mandruss-2018-01-11T21:17:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-11T21:09:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-11T21:23:00.000Z-Mandruss-2018-01-11T21:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

Haha. (Strong Llanelli accent): "I'll 'ave you! You ruddy lazy beggar!!". Martinevans123 (talk) 21:23, 11 January 2018 (UTC) ...more of Newport's finest[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-11T21:23:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-11T21:23:00.000Z-Mandruss-2018-01-11T21:17:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I'll just throw this out there without making any edits. Hopefully, you strive for accuracy as much as your readers want accurate information. Ray Thomas' wife Lee issued the following statement today on Ray's cause of death.

"I know a lot of you have been reading that Ray died from prostate cancer and I'd like to set the record straight. He did NOT die from the prostate cancer, he died from a massive heart attack. The prostate cancer was being treated and had been held in check for 6 years."

https://www.facebook.com/FleecityFirkin

Hooter13 (talk) 04:20, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T04:20:00.000Z","author":"Hooter13","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hooter13-2018-01-13T04:20:00.000Z-Ray_Thomas'_Death","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T10:24:00.000Z-Hooter13-2018-01-13T04:20:00.000Z"]}}-->

Many thanks, Hooter. I'll answer your question over at Talk:Ray Thomas. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:24, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T10:24:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T10:24:00.000Z-Hooter13-2018-01-13T04:20:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello!

I only skimmed the source in fairness, after watching a video of what happened. It seems incredibly obvious the pap was in the wrong, but regardless the source actually uses allegedly for both men's behavior. Probably best the article does the same? 80.3.154.91 (talk) 14:50, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T14:50:00.000Z","author":"80.3.154.91","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-80.3.154.91-2018-01-13T14:50:00.000Z-Jay_Kay","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T15:08:00.000Z-80.3.154.91-2018-01-13T14:50:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, thanks, you are quite right. I've added in that second "alleged", although it now looks a bit clumsy. Crafty of the Standard to bury that second one further down the piece. Is that video in the public domain? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:08, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T15:08:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T15:08:00.000Z-80.3.154.91-2018-01-13T14:50:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I was ready to post this one for RD, but then I realize it's 10 days ago... It would be too difficult to stretch this one, so sorry. Alex Shih (talk) 17:33, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T17:33:00.000Z","author":"Alex Shih","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T17:33:00.000Z-Ray_Thomas","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T17:38:00.000Z-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T17:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

And I was ready to add all the sources so it would be fit to post. Well 4 Jan was 9 days ago, but that's a shame. So much for changing the nomination date, eh? I guess the rules for a nomination going stale are all clearly written down somewhere. I looked at Wikipedia:In the news/Death criteria, but I couldn't see them. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:38, 13 January 2018 (UTC) p.s. when did it actually go stale?[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T17:38:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T17:38:00.000Z-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T17:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T17:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T17:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

It is a shame (it's already January 14 here in Japan). Yeah, I am not sure why it's not written in death criteria, but it is written in Template:In the news (commented out). (Remove any older than 7 days). I don't check ITN all the time, feel free to ping me when something worthy needs to be posted. Alex Shih (talk) 17:49, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T17:49:00.000Z","author":"Alex Shih","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T17:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T17:38:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T18:01:00.000Z-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T17:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

I see. Well, Ray certainly died in Surrey, not Japan. But thanks for the link. That rule doesn't really stack up with the way the nomination was moved to take account of the families wishes in delaying the announcement? I had assumed if a nomination was still live on the nomination page, it was still viable. Looks like it was already stale last night when I finally managed to do the major update. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:01, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T18:01:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T18:01:00.000Z-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T17:49:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T18:30:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T18:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

p.s. commented out text, on a template page, saying "There should be a maximum of 4 recent deaths. Remove any older than 7 days" isn't exactly in the most visible place, is it? But either it should have been removed on 11 Jan, or it should stay live until tomorrow? Closing it as stale now just makes me feel like all my effort was wasted.

p.p.s. you folks in Japan must have a lot of fun closing stuff at a time that looks to us lazy Brits like it's 7 hours too early. I thought we all worked by UTC? I wonder how many admins wake up even earlier? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:30, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T18:30:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T18:30:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T18:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T19:48:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T18:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hmm, okay. If Masem says so, I think it'll be fine to stretch this then. Alex Shih (talk) 19:48, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T19:48:00.000Z","author":"Alex Shih","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T19:48:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T18:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T19:58:00.000Z-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T19:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you, Alex. One day is much better than none. I must learn to keep a better eye on the calendar. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:58, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T19:58:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-13T19:58:00.000Z-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T19:48:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

On 13 January 2018, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Ray Thomas, which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Alex Shih (talk) 19:54, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-13T19:54:00.000Z","author":"Alex Shih","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Alex_Shih-2018-01-13T19:54:00.000Z-ITN_recognition_for_Ray_Thomas","replies":[]}}-->

Happy Thai Pongal, Makar Sankranti, Lohri and Bihu to you!

May all your endeavours have a fruitful beginning and prosperous ending!  — Ssven2 ^{Looking at you, kid} 12:21, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-14T12:21:00.000Z","author":"Ssven2","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ssven2-2018-01-14T12:21:00.000Z-Happy_Pongal,_Makar_Sankranti,_Lohri_and_Bihu_to_you!","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-14T12:24:00.000Z-Ssven2-2018-01-14T12:21:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you very much! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:24, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-14T12:24:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-14T12:24:00.000Z-Ssven2-2018-01-14T12:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Martin, I was just completing an overhaul of MV Sanchi when you made your changes. I'm afraid I went ahead and made mine, so I may have scotched some of yours. Can you take another look at the article and fix anything you think needs fixing? Thanks. Sca (talk) 13:51, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-14T13:51:00.000Z","author":"Sca","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sca-2018-01-14T13:51:00.000Z-Sanchi","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-14T14:14:00.000Z-Sca-2018-01-14T13:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

Apologies, did not realise. Was only tweaking things as it's been bumped at ITN/C. I'll try and take a look. Thanks for telling me. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:14, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-14T14:14:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-14T14:14:00.000Z-Sca-2018-01-14T13:51:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Please do not comment on trivialities and please contribute on the discussion. Sport and politics (talk) 19:58, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-16T19:58:00.000Z","author":"Sport and politics","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sport_and_politics-2018-01-16T19:58:00.000Z-Snowflake","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-16T20:03:00.000Z-Sport_and_politics-2018-01-16T19:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

So terribly sorry. But I started the discussion thread at Ed Davey and then you kindly barged in before me? And what do you mean by "snowflake" exactly? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:03, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-16T20:03:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-16T20:03:00.000Z-Sport_and_politics-2018-01-16T19:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sport_and_politics-2018-01-16T20:55:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-16T20:03:00.000Z","c-Sluzzelin-2018-01-16T21:34:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-16T20:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

Focusing on minutiae does not address the issues with the article, and complaining about layout and who got what done first, is nothing of substance. Please focus on the content of the article, that way the article can be improved. Sport and politics (talk) 20:55, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-16T20:55:00.000Z","author":"Sport and politics","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Sport_and_politics-2018-01-16T20:55:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-16T20:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-16T20:59:00.000Z-Sport_and_politics-2018-01-16T20:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

I don't see any "issues with the article". It looks pretty well-written. What issues do you see? And please don't lecture me. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:59, 16 January 2018 (UTC) p.s. "snowflake"??[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-16T20:59:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-16T20:59:00.000Z-Sport_and_politics-2018-01-16T20:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Several options. Tap, tap, tappin' at your windowpane to tell you she's in town? Asking for Peruvian Snowflake? Or just a generic disdain for young people. Other possibilities include a focus on fractal minutiae. Hard to tell. ---Sluzzelin talk 21:34, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-16T21:34:00.000Z","author":"Sluzzelin","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Sluzzelin-2018-01-16T21:34:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-16T20:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-16T21:39:00.000Z-Sluzzelin-2018-01-16T21:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ooooo, what a charming cartoon. Yes, it is hard to tell, but ouch!! I now feel suitably crushed. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:39, 16 January 2018 (UTC) p.s. I'd usually rather tap on this window pane. ... but I'll see ya and raise ya!![reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-16T21:39:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-16T21:39:00.000Z-Sluzzelin-2018-01-16T21:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

RIP. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:51, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-18T07:51:00.000Z","author":"Ghmyrtle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ghmyrtle-2018-01-18T07:51:00.000Z-\"...an_alabaster_gnome...\"","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-18T08:41:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2018-01-18T07:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

Indeed. "He was a man of Nature who forgot his birds and bees"? What an incredibly groovy track. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:41, 18 January 2018 (UTC) .... Gloucester Bus Station was a very slippery place back in 1975, I'll have you know, with all those bars of soap lying around....[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-18T08:41:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-18T08:41:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2018-01-18T07:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ghmyrtle-2018-01-19T13:38:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-18T08:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

Sadly, not all voiceovers have that je ne sais quoi. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:38, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-19T13:38:00.000Z","author":"Ghmyrtle","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Ghmyrtle-2018-01-19T13:38:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-18T08:41:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-19T13:42:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2018-01-19T13:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

I didn't even know Fiona was doing this kind of stuff any more! But yes, she does sound a little disjointed. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:42, 19 January 2018 (UTC) [reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-19T13:42:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-19T13:42:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2018-01-19T13:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

On 21 January 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Angel Recording Studios, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that a former chapel built in 1888 was one of eleven studios involved in the recording of Adele's bestselling album 21? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Angel Recording Studios. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Angel Recording Studios), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 14:02, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T14:02:00.000Z","author":"Gatoclass","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gatoclass-2018-01-21T14:02:00.000Z-DYK_for_Angel_Recording_Studios","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T14:36:00.000Z-Gatoclass-2018-01-21T14:02:00.000Z"]}}-->

Many thanks, Gatoclass. Yes, I'm afraid the rumours are true. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:36, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T14:36:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T14:36:00.000Z-Gatoclass-2018-01-21T14:02:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I've reverted at Ian McKellen and Ringo Starr. The same thing had happened at Ridley Scott and Charlie Chaplin. There's obviously a need for clear instructions somewhere central. --RexxS (talk) 15:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T15:03:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-RexxS-2018-01-21T15:03:00.000Z-Pre-nominal_Sir","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T15:06:00.000Z-RexxS-2018-01-21T15:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, thanks. I agree. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:06, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T15:06:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T15:06:00.000Z-RexxS-2018-01-21T15:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Robevans123-2018-01-21T15:54:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T15:06:00.000Z"]}}-->

The Manual of Style seems to imply that the "Sir" should be part of the name in the intro and the infobox, but the documentation for the person infobox seems at odds with this. It's not unusual for infoboxes to be at odds with the MoS...

I must admit that I don't like anything above the main title of an infobox, but it does provide a useful link to the honour (but it would be better to re-direct to Knight Bachelor). Robevans123 (talk) 15:54, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T15:54:00.000Z","author":"Robevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Robevans123-2018-01-21T15:54:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T15:06:00.000Z","replies":["c-Robevans123-2018-01-21T15:59:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-01-21T15:54:00.000Z","c-RexxS-2018-01-21T16:16:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-01-21T15:54:00.000Z"]}}-->

PS Watched the Two Towers last night - love it when he re-appears as Radox the Green Gandalf the White... Robevans123 (talk) 15:59, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T15:59:00.000Z","author":"Robevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Robevans123-2018-01-21T15:59:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-01-21T15:54:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T16:11:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-01-21T15:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes. I was quite confused about this conflict when I was discussing with User:Phinn about Barry Gibb last month. I was very glad of the clear advice from RexxS-press. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:11, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T16:11:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T16:11:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-01-21T15:59:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

(edit conflict) The Manual of Style doesn't seem to imply that the "Sir" should be part of the name: "The honorific titles Sir, Dame, Lord and Lady are included in the initial reference and infobox heading for the subject of a biographical article" (my emphasis on heading). Honorific titles/prefixes, such as "Sir", are included in the infobox header. The infobox heading is the contents of the header of the infobox (inside <th>...</th> in the html). The heading includes three elements on separate lines against a common coloured background. The three elements are supplied by three parameters: |pre-nominals=, |name=, and |post-nominals=. No matter what anyone's aesthetic sensibilities are, "Sir" is not part of anybody's name that I know of. If you don't like multiple lines in the infobox heading, then you could suggest an alternative at Template talk:Infobox person or a similar venue. --RexxS (talk) 16:16, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T16:16:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-RexxS-2018-01-21T16:16:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-01-21T15:54:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T16:22:00.000Z-RexxS-2018-01-21T16:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, that all seems pretty clear. Although there seem to be special cases? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:22, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T16:22:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T16:22:00.000Z-RexxS-2018-01-21T16:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-RexxS-2018-01-21T16:46:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T16:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've added a sentence to the MoS in the hope that it makes clearer what an "infobox heading" is. let's see if that helps. That's not a special case; the word you're looking for is "error". --RexxS (talk) 16:46, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T16:46:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-RexxS-2018-01-21T16:46:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T16:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T16:52:00.000Z-RexxS-2018-01-21T16:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks. But what's your suggestion for correcting the "error"? I wish you luck over there. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:52, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T16:52:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T16:52:00.000Z-RexxS-2018-01-21T16:46:00.000Z","replies":["c-RexxS-2018-01-21T17:10:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T16:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

What makes you think I'm suggesting correcting the error? There are about 2,710 of them - search for hastemplate:infobox insource:"name = Sir " insource:/name ?= ?Sir /, which incidentally shows that Logic (musician) claims to have "Sir" as part of his given name. If you wanted to clean that lot up, you could request a bot run. --RexxS (talk) 17:10, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T17:10:00.000Z","author":"RexxS","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-RexxS-2018-01-21T17:10:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T16:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T17:21:00.000Z-RexxS-2018-01-21T17:10:00.000Z"]}}-->

Your unstoppable search for consistency of course. But I'll let you know about the bot run. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:21, 21 January 2018 (UTC) .... arise Sir Rag'n'Bone?? .... [reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T17:21:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T17:21:00.000Z-RexxS-2018-01-21T17:10:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

In reply to your Mike Westbrook question: I suppose because the reader doesn't know that it's Template:Infobox musical artist; we do, as editors, but readers don't. I agree that "musician" looks redundant, but it's recommended on the Template page and it might look odd if just "composer" appeared. Your version also has redundancy: "jazz pianist" is obvious, from the "Avant-garde jazz" and "Piano" entries in the infobox. On the other bit: it's obvious that Mike Westbrook would be associated with the Mike Westbrook Brass Band, so that shouldn't really be there. "Musician" appears at Bix Beiderbecke, Jimi Hendrix, George Harrison and other featured articles, but not all. So: stylistic preference perhaps. That's why I didn't revert, although in my periodic run-through of jazz pianist articles I might change it again, having forgotten this conversation; apologies if I do and if you still prefer the version you reverted to. EddieHugh (talk) 22:44, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T22:44:00.000Z","author":"EddieHugh","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-EddieHugh-2018-01-21T22:44:00.000Z-Infobox","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T22:56:00.000Z-EddieHugh-2018-01-21T22:44:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for the reply. Maybe the Brass Band is "obvious" to you and me, but it's still quite a different vehicle to his other work and as such seems informative. And I just see "jazz pianist" as being much more useful to the reader than "Musician", quite regardless of what is in the article or what's in the rest of the infobox. If there really are project-agreed "infobox norms" for Template:Infobox musical artist, I'd be happy to go with them. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:56, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T22:56:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T22:56:00.000Z-EddieHugh-2018-01-21T22:44:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi - You recently switched out the interlanguage links in the 'Enigma of Kaspar Hauser' article, in favor of direct links to de.wikipedia . I probably put those interlanguage links there. The good thing about the interlanguage links is that, if someone creates an English language article with the required title, the link automatically switches to an ordinary wikilink. The interlanguage link also makes it clear that you're leaving the English-speaking universe if you use it in its original state. I'll leave it to you if you'd like to revert your own edit, but there was a logic to the original scheme. Cheers, Easchiff (talk) 23:01, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T23:01:00.000Z","author":"Easchiff","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Easchiff-2018-01-21T23:01:00.000Z-Interlanguage_links","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T23:09:00.000Z-Easchiff-2018-01-21T23:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

No worries. Yes, if someone creates, which seems to me very unlikely, but we should always be hopeful, I guess. And yes, it's more obvious, although I had assumed the colour difference with direct links would also be seen by those readers who are not using a monochrome display. I'll revert, although I'll retain the extra ones I added. But before I do, I wonder could you explain that one for Alfred Edel? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:09, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T23:09:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T23:09:00.000Z-Easchiff-2018-01-21T23:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-21T23:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T23:09:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-21T23:30:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T23:09:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-21T23:33:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T23:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

"ill" links are much better, because they kind of warn readers that they are about to leave English territory, + say what the next language(s) will be (which could be Japanese or Hebrew). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:22, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T23:22:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-21T23:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T23:09:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I wouldn't write {{Interlanguage link multi|Alfred Edel (actor)|de|3=Alfred Edel|lt=Alfred Edel}}, but {{ill|Alfred Edel (actor)|de|Alfred Edel|lt=Alfred Edel}}. It means that English has an Alfred Edel, who is not this actor, so English has to disambiguate, but without showing the disambiguation. (I believe "lt" is short for linktext.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:30, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T23:30:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-21T23:30:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T23:09:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Having looked: that Alfred Edel is only a (bad) redirect, which could be overwritten by the actual Alfred Edel when writing his bio. I had the same for Catherine Foster, who was a redirect to Katherine Foster. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:33, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-21T23:33:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-21T23:33:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-21T23:09:00.000Z","replies":["c-Easchiff-2018-01-22T00:14:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-21T23:33:00.000Z","c-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T13:11:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-21T23:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks, Gerda - you do a great job explaining this. Cheers, Easchiff (talk) 00:14, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-22T00:14:00.000Z","author":"Easchiff","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Easchiff-2018-01-22T00:14:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-21T23:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Yes, many thanks, Gerda. So when, if ever, are direct links preferable? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:11, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-22T13:11:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T13:11:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-21T23:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T13:50:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T13:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

Never ;) - readers should see easily that they are supposed to work, meaning change red to blue. I reduce that pompous "multi" to simple "ill" when it's not multi, such as linking to de, it and fr (which you can do for one article, but I claim that once you are in one other language you can easily see what else is available). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:50, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-22T13:50:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T13:50:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T13:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T13:51:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T13:50:00.000Z"]}}-->

Um, so why do we even have them? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:51, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-22T13:51:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T13:51:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T13:50:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T13:56:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T13:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

In former times, we had them to actually connect, but now we do it per Wikidata. Took me a while to find how to edit them now: look for "Wikidata item" left. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:56, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-22T13:56:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T13:56:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T13:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T14:11:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T13:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

But they still do actually connect, in these present times? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:11, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-22T14:11:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T14:11:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T13:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T14:24:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T14:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

They do. I used such links a lot for German singers of Bach cantatas in my early days, until Graham told me better not. Imagine you are blind and end up in Hebrew ;) - I remember my first time of adding something in the Hebrew Wikipedia, and had (and needed) help from a friend born in Israel. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:24, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-22T14:24:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T14:24:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T14:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T14:31:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T14:24:00.000Z"]}}-->

But just linking is not adding anything? I have always assumed that someone reading an article about a German person would be grateful for an embedded direct link to another German person or subject. But Graham is very welcome to expand here, is he wants to. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:31, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-22T14:31:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T14:31:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-01-22T14:24:00.000Z","replies":["c-Graham87-2018-01-22T15:28:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T14:31:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks. Yes, it's better to use interwwiki link templates in articles. Interwiki links using colons can be useful in discussions, however, for example to link to my Hebrew Wikipedia contributions; too much editing in the Hebrew and Arabic Wikipedia makes me almost want to listen to One Direction. Graham87 15:28, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-22T15:28:00.000Z","author":"Graham87","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Graham87-2018-01-22T15:28:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T14:31:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T15:38:00.000Z-Graham87-2018-01-22T15:28:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Graham"}}-->

Oi vay! Martinevans123 (talk) 15:38, 22 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-22T15:38:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-22T15:38:00.000Z-Graham87-2018-01-22T15:28:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, Martin.

Just wanted your secondary opinion here. Do you agree with me this addition to the Dahmer article, despite the blustering justification it isn't trivia addition, should be reverted? Not only do some of the reference insertions reek of puerile impertinence (murdermostqueer, Blacktino etc.), but even the author's text description for some radiates trivia and incidental depictions (dark comedy etc.). I was itching to revert, but, in this instance, thought I'd get a second opinion first. It's a stepping stone to that South Park depiction being added with "justification" in my Mancunian opinion. Thanks.--Kieronoldham (talk) 01:17, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-23T01:17:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-01-23T01:17:00.000Z-Recent_Dahmer_additions.","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-23T08:50:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-01-23T01:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hi Kieron. I'm not sure. I'll try and take a closer look. I must get round to adding that South Park episode one of these days. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:50, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-23T08:50:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-23T08:50:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-01-23T01:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-23T13:35:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-23T08:50:00.000Z"]}}-->

I've now removed two of those as they seem to have no suitable sources. The third I've tagged, as it needs a better source. But the fact the remaining two items both have Wikipedia articles suggests they are notable entries. I do not have visibility of the first source, but have accepted in good faith. Hope this helps. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:35, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-23T13:35:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-23T13:35:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-23T08:50:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kieronoldham-2018-01-24T01:08:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-23T13:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks, Martinevans123. I agree with your observation, and did think the "dark comedy" called "Betty's Summer Vacation" certainly were irrelevant. If insertions like that were allowed to remain, incidental mentions in episodes of crime dramas would soon seep in. Always reassuring to know you can assist a needy serial/cereal killer from time to time.--Kieronoldham (talk) 01:08, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-24T01:08:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-01-24T01:08:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-23T13:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi there! Bless for reverting away the python death since that source didn't make any comment as to whether it was unusual or not. :) I did some digging and pulled up another couple of sources and have posted on the unusual deaths talkpage about them, and I'd love your input - the short version is that neither says explicitly unusual, but do refer to it as a one-in-a-million event, and I'm wondering if consensus is that's close enough. Cheers! NekoKatsun (talk) 16:10, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-24T16:10:00.000Z","author":"NekoKatsun","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-NekoKatsun-2018-01-24T16:10:00.000Z-Unusual_deaths","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-24T18:40:00.000Z-NekoKatsun-2018-01-24T16:10:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hi NeoKatsin. Thanks for the message. I've made a comment over at the Talk page. But I get a bit nervous when people mention Pythons. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:40, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-24T18:40:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-24T18:40:00.000Z-NekoKatsun-2018-01-24T16:10:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

We need to get the word Manchester into the lead! Ceoil (talk) 10:51, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-27T10:51:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ceoil-2018-01-27T10:51:00.000Z-MES","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-27T10:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2018-01-27T10:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

Haha yes, we probably do. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:56, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-27T10:56:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-27T10:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2018-01-27T10:51:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Haha Martin thanks! ... which then triggered me to go off and have to re-look-up the Church Police sketch (which seems to be a little better developed and funnier on the LP Matching Tie and Handkerchief than on the TV --> YouTube one I saw??) ... and so on. Cheers (not really here) 82.34.71.202 (talk) 10:46, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-28T10:46:00.000Z","author":"82.34.71.202","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-82.34.71.202-2018-01-28T10:46:00.000Z-The_Bishop!","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-28T10:51:00.000Z-82.34.71.202-2018-01-28T10:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

Not really here? Ah yes, the value of a good disguise. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:51, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-28T10:51:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-28T10:51:00.000Z-82.34.71.202-2018-01-28T10:46:00.000Z","replies":["c-82.34.71.202-2018-01-28T11:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-28T10:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

Quite. :) 82.34.71.202 (talk) 11:22, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-28T11:22:00.000Z","author":"82.34.71.202","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-82.34.71.202-2018-01-28T11:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-01-28T10:51:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Slings and arrows will not harm you

He's makin' a list And checking it twice Gonna find out if your naughty or nice Santa says no pings Are allowed. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 23:02, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-31T23:02:00.000Z","author":"7&6=thirteen","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-7&6=thirteen-2018-01-31T23:02:00.000Z-Belated_Christmas_greeting","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-01-31T23:07:00.000Z-7&6=thirteen-2018-01-31T23:02:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-01T09:13:00.000Z-7&6=thirteen-2018-01-31T23:02:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-02T08:07:00.000Z-7&6=thirteen-2018-01-31T23:02:00.000Z"]}}-->

ooh yes, the sling backs and arrows of outrageous fortune, dearie! If I were you, I'd resign. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:07, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-31T23:07:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-01-31T23:07:00.000Z-7&6=thirteen-2018-01-31T23:02:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

What do you mean, belated? I have two Christmas songs on the Main page ;) (the second one has an image that Hillbilly on holiday) would also like. - Mary's cleansing (40 days after giving birth) will be tomorrow. Please watch the TFA then (was supposed to appear last year, but I was too slow). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:13, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-01T09:13:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-01T09:13:00.000Z-7&6=thirteen-2018-01-31T23:02:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

In peace and joy I depart, - I wonder if that some day will fit me. I wonder about Krzysztof. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:07, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-02T08:07:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-02T08:07:00.000Z-7&6=thirteen-2018-01-31T23:02:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Do you think the media section is becoming overloaded with trivia? It reads more like a blog than a BLP. Best wishes for your attempts to keep this article neutral and free from spiteful vandalism, Xxanthippe (talk) 00:31, 4 February 2018 (UTC).[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-04T00:31:00.000Z","author":"Xxanthippe","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Xxanthippe-2018-02-04T00:31:00.000Z-Ann_Widdecombe","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-04T10:27:00.000Z-Xxanthippe-2018-02-04T00:31:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well, it's hard to tell what's trivia and what isn't, but yes it is getting a bit big, I think. I think we're not quite ready yet for a separate article on Media work, appearances and stage acting career of Ann Widdecombe, so maybe it could be trimmed down a bit. Maybe you'd you like to open a discussion thread at Talk:Ann Widdecombe? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:27, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-04T10:27:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-04T10:27:00.000Z-Xxanthippe-2018-02-04T00:31:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-04T10:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-04T10:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

Remove it all and replace with a link to serious commentary by Victoria Wood.

Hahaha. Not seen that before. Very good. "W.I. and Double D"!!

"The Media section is too big!"... "Oh, no it isn't!" Martinevans123 (talk) 10:49, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-04T10:49:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-04T10:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-04T10:27:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I have warned you in the past about linking to copyright violating sites, so it seems rather coincidental that you would knowingly add such a link to a discussion about a copyvio action I took. I removed it, please don't ever do this again. Fram (talk) 14:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-06T14:13:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-06T14:13:00.000Z-Copyvio_links_(....\"we_got_'em\"!)","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:14:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-06T14:13:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm really not sure what you're implying about any "coincidental" addition on my part. Would you explain that please? My addition was made in perfectly good faith. Or perhaps you've already provided User:7&6=thirteen with a copy? That copyvio has been there for over two years? Did you do the automatic Google translate to check? How would I "knowingly add" something if I have no original to compare it with? Now only you and other Admins have access to that? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-06T14:14:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:14:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-06T14:13:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:14:00.000Z"]}}-->

Also, you didn't just remove what might have been an offending link in my post. You removed my entire post. Then you rushed here to scold me. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:22, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-06T14:22:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:14:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fram-2018-02-06T14:32:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

I obviously didn't rush fast enough, as you readded it and didn't see fit to remove it despite my post here. Don't add this kind of thing again or you will be blocked. ues your time instead to remove all youtube copyvio links from your userpage once again, as many of the links seem of very dubious copyright status again. Fram (talk) 14:32, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-06T14:32:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-06T14:32:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:34:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-06T14:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

And now you've deleted my entire post again. So I assume you did a check and the copyvio has been there for 2 years? I'm not sure how I was supposed to know that, unless I had kept my own personal copy of the deleted article or had an eidetic memory. And now more threats. You seem to be assuming totally bad faith on my part. That's really unpleasant. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:34, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-06T14:34:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:34:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-06T14:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fram-2018-02-06T14:45:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

The copyvio was there from the start of the article, otherwise only part of the history would have been deleted. You readded it after it was removed, and didn't bother to remove it after reading my posts here either. On the other hand, you have been readding youtube copyvio links to your user page despite being warned about this by me in the past, when you gave the impression to comply with this for a short while. Fram (talk) 14:45, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-06T14:45:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-06T14:45:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:58:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-06T14:45:00.000Z"]}}-->

You added your message here while I was restoring my comment at WP:AN/I, believing, in good faith, that your deletion was a mistake. And what's a "short while" exactly? If you think my linking to YouTube videos on my own user page is so serious, then I guess you will just have to block me. You've convinced me that my contributions here are not wanted. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:58, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-06T14:58:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:58:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-06T14:45:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fram-2018-02-06T15:15:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

If you don't want to edit here if you are not allowed to put links to copyright violating youtube videos on your user page, then that is your choice. If you readd them, I will indeed block you, but I would much prefer if you left them of your user page and simply continued editing. Fram (talk) 15:15, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-06T15:15:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-06T15:15:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T14:58:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Just to be clear, despite the "Copyvio links" heading here, this thread is not about a few links to Youtube videos which may or may not be "copyvio" (although they have obviously been watched, over decades, by million of viewers, across the world, without any apparent legal consequences), it's about my post here which was my good faith attempt to contribute to that ongoing discussion, where I was trying to make a point about notability, whuch had been raised by User:GoldenRing here. It apparently contained a copyvio link (in another language). So my post was deleted wholesale. I was also accused of deliberately re-adding it despite a warning here (which I had not had time to see). I don't really appreciate threats of blocking and then having material dumped off my User page without a request to remove it myself (which I would gladly have done). I've just had enough of this overbearing battleground mentality, thanks. So I've carefully trimmed down this page, in case there are any copyvios lurking, and trimmed the YouTube links yet again, just for Fram, who seems to see my contributions at WP:AN/I and my willful and malicious posting of links to YouTube video, as all part of the same unbearably disruptive activity. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:58, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-06T18:58:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T18:58:00.000Z-Copyvio_links_(....\"we_got_'em\"!)","replies":["c-Eman235-2018-02-07T20:27:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T18:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Pretty sure linking to a copyvio doesn't count. Eman235/talk 20:27, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-07T20:27:00.000Z","author":"Eman235","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Eman235-2018-02-07T20:27:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-06T18:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fram-2018-02-08T10:41:00.000Z-Eman235-2018-02-07T20:27:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Eman"}}-->

• Well, linking to the defense from one side in a dispute which is at court now is not really evidence, and in any case, the question is not whether it is legal or not. The question is whether it is allowed on enwiki, and the answer to that question is "no". Fram (talk) 10:41, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-08T10:41:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-08T10:41:00.000Z-Eman235-2018-02-07T20:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Primefac-2018-02-08T14:44:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-08T10:41:00.000Z","c-Eman235-2018-02-08T21:41:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-08T10:41:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • Indeed; we have stricter copyright rules than most places, and WP:COPYVIOCITE is quite clear on not linking to copyright-breaking material. Primefac (talk) 14:44, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-08T14:44:00.000Z","author":"Primefac","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Primefac-2018-02-08T14:44:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-08T10:41:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-08T18:25:00.000Z-Primefac-2018-02-08T14:44:00.000Z"]}}-->
    • Thanks for clarifying, @Fram: and @Primefac:. Just to be totally clear (as that linked page does not mention translations), this applies to all translations into foreign languages, such as the one I linked in Esperanto, even though an editor may have no knowledge of that language to be able to determine if it is a close translation of not? Won't it depend on how good the automatic translation is? Your advice would be much appreciated. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:25, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-08T18:25:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-08T18:25:00.000Z-Primefac-2018-02-08T14:44:00.000Z","replies":["c-Primefac-2018-02-09T20:16:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-08T18:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

I have no idea what you're asking. Primefac (talk) 20:16, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-09T20:16:00.000Z","author":"Primefac","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Primefac-2018-02-09T20:16:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-08T18:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T21:02:00.000Z-Primefac-2018-02-09T20:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks, Primefac. That's the best answer I've yet had. But yes, one sentence was a little ambitious there, wasn't it, I'm sorry. I was trying to ask this:

1. Can a translation of a passage into a foreign language always be assumed to be a copy-vio? I mean, other languages use totally different words don't they, and express things in a different way, with different grammar?

2. If one doesn't know a language (like I don't know Esperanto, for example) how does one judge if it's copyvio? Is a machine translation (like GoogleTranslate) good enough to determine this?

3. (another question I've just thought of, as you're here) Can links to what may be copyvio material never be used at Wikipedia, off article main space, for the purposes of discussion or illustration?

Thanks for your time. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:02, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-09T21:02:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T21:02:00.000Z-Primefac-2018-02-09T20:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-Justlettersandnumbers-2018-02-09T21:59:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T21:02:00.000Z"]}}-->

(talk page watcher) I probably shouldn't rush in where angles fear to tread. But to answer those questions briefly: 1. no, only an unauthorised translation of a copyright work is a copyvio; an authorised translation acquires a second copyright, that of the translator. 2. you can't, and no (but it can give you an idea). 3. no; if you have to give the link (to report a copyvio, say), drop the http:// (e.g., www.linkvio.us). Now I'll eff off. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:59, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-09T21:59:00.000Z","author":"Justlettersandnumbers","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Justlettersandnumbers-2018-02-09T21:59:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T21:02:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T22:13:00.000Z-Justlettersandnumbers-2018-02-09T21:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you so much Justlettersandnumbers. That's very useful. If only Fram could have just given me some friendly advice like that. Not seen him for a while. We'll have to wait and see if Primefac agrees with you, I guess. We wouldn't want to steal his thunder, would we? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:13, 9 February 2018 (UTC) ... loving the eggs[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-09T22:13:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T22:13:00.000Z-Justlettersandnumbers-2018-02-09T21:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T22:39:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T22:13:00.000Z"]}}-->

Although, if ever I have a copyright question I always tend go to User:Diannaa, who seems to be a complete expert in this area, and who is always straightforward, polite and helpful. I wonder if she would see fit help me out in my "hour of need." Martinevans123 (talk) 22:39, 9 February 2018 (UTC) [4][reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-09T22:39:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T22:39:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T22:13:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T23:43:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T22:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

Oh no, now I'm worried that I've leap-frogged on poor old Primefac. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:43, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-09T23:43:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T23:43:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T22:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-10T18:57:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T23:43:00.000Z"]}}-->

So, JLAN, one can just remove "http://"? That seems somehow very easy. Is that actually website policy? Surely one is encouraging the reader to reconstruct the link and to click through just the same? Or is this some kind of "due diligence"? Perhaps Primefac could actually advise us. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:57, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-10T18:57:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-10T18:57:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T23:43:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• • The article I linked also mentions a case where this was actually the court's decision -- but if policy says it's not okay, then I won't argue further. Eman235/talk 21:41, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-08T21:41:00.000Z","author":"Eman235","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Eman235-2018-02-08T21:41:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-08T10:41:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-08T21:54:00.000Z-Eman235-2018-02-08T21:41:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Eman"}}-->
    • Yes, I saw that, Eman235. I found that article very interesting. I guess that's what's going on in the real world. At least in the US. Many thanks for posting it. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:54, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-08T21:54:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-08T21:54:00.000Z-Eman235-2018-02-08T21:41:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

oh dearie me, seems someone's been at the sauce judging by all these empty tin-pots... Poor vous. .micro.dot.cotton (talk) 20:37, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-09T20:37:00.000Z","author":"Micro.dot.cotton","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Micro.dot.cotton-2018-02-09T20:37:00.000Z-Copyvio_links_(....\"we_got_'em\"!)","replies":["c-General_Ization-2018-02-09T21:02:00.000Z-Micro.dot.cotton-2018-02-09T20:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

Apologies, then, to both of you. That (and the page history) sure looked like ongoing (and unfriendly) harassment. I stand corrected. General Ization ^Talk 21:02, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-09T21:02:00.000Z","author":"General Ization","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-General_Ization-2018-02-09T21:02:00.000Z-Micro.dot.cotton-2018-02-09T20:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T21:07:00.000Z-General_Ization-2018-02-09T21:02:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ella and Louis are always more than welcome at my Talk page, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:07, 9 February 2018 (UTC) ... as are any other sundry icons of popular music, of course.[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-09T21:07:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-09T21:07:00.000Z-General_Ization-2018-02-09T21:02:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialogue, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension.

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:47, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-06T19:47:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-06T19:47:00.000Z-I_need_the_angel","replies":[]}}-->

O Heavens, O forgot the attribution. ----Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:50, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-06T19:50:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-06T19:50:00.000Z-I_need_the_angel","replies":[]}}-->

Impact

Thank you for your impact
in aspiring to amuse, facing recent deaths with serenity

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:45, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-09-19T21:45:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2017-09-19T21:45:00.000Z-moar_impact","replies":[]}}-->

I restore this, - too lazy to write the diff in the prize record. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:47, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-07T20:47:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-07T20:47:00.000Z-moar_impact","replies":[]}}-->

I hope that you watch my talk and know already that we had a lovely Main page today, on which Nazi was mentioned which should guarantee a few extra clicks, - sad, really. Tomorrow will be Der gelbe Klang, sounds rich. There's a video, but nononono link. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:40, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-09T23:40:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-09T23:40:00.000Z-moar_impact","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-10T00:07:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-09T23:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

As you know Gerda, as a subtle tribute to Donald Trump's wig, I try and steer clear of the ever-diminishing Main page. But I think you are very brave with the Übermensch-Untermensch theme. 23:56, 9 February 2018 (UTC) shame about the nonononono bangin' tuuuuuuuuuune!!!

My theme was Ihr habt nun Traurigkeit (You now have sadness), but the reviewer brought in the four-letter word. I sang "Ich will euch trösten" (I want to console you) on the stage of the Mainz opera house, because our choir was asked to add flavour to the opera chorus. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:07, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-10T00:07:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-10T00:07:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-09T23:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-10T00:11:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-10T00:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

Gerda, you are always so thoughtful and sweet. I do appreciate your musical lightness. One of the better four letter words, there. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:11, 10 February 2018 (UTC) [5][reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-10T00:11:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-10T00:11:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-10T00:07:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-18T18:38:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-10T00:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

I should put that in my "blushing" cabinet. 18 February, - did you know that it's the day I gave Precious to the one who gave me the good advice "ignore ignore ignore", 6 years ago? And the birthday of another friend who died too young? Phoenix Arising was written by his son as a tribute to him. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:38, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-18T18:38:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-18T18:38:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-10T00:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-18T18:42:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-18T18:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

I have to admit that I did not notice, Gerda!! That's very interesting about Phoenix Arising. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:42, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-18T18:42:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-18T18:42:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-18T18:38:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-18T19:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-18T18:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you, - I just started the next, on piano pieces. The composer was my first DYK, I had filled a red link. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:49, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-18T19:49:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-18T19:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-18T18:42:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

We start today. I just was reminded of that, mind the date. I was too proud to appeal for two years, and may have been wrong. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:44, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-20T06:44:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-20T06:44:00.000Z-moar_impact","replies":[]}}-->

Somewhat gutted by that. Often the TMO has to make a tough decision based on no direct view.... but when it's in perfectly clear view watched by millions?? Mr Glenn Newman not terribly popular in Wales at the moment, I fear. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:28, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-11T10:28:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-11T10:28:00.000Z-2018_Six_Nations_Championship","replies":[]}}-->

Hello! Since you've done good work on the Walk on the Wild Side (Lou Reed song) article, I'd be interested in your opinion about my proposed image addition at the end of the talk page there. Best wishes. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 10:37, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-13T10:37:00.000Z","author":"SergeWoodzing","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SergeWoodzing-2018-02-13T10:37:00.000Z-Wild_Side_image","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-13T11:06:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2018-02-13T10:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for telling me. I'll try and take a look. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:06, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-13T11:06:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-13T11:06:00.000Z-SergeWoodzing-2018-02-13T10:37:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Happy Valentine's Day!

It wasn't easy to come up with an innocuous Valentine's Day greeting to share with collaborators on Wikipedia, so I went with "evolutionary". Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There’s too much fraternizing with the enemy. ~Henry Kissinger Atsme📞📧 13:20, 14 February 2018 (UTC) [reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-14T13:20:00.000Z","author":"Atsme","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Atsme-2018-02-14T13:20:00.000Z-February_14th","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-14T13:24:00.000Z-Atsme-2018-02-14T13:20:00.000Z"]}}-->

Oooh, thank you so much Atsme. What an unexpected delight! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:24, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-14T13:24:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-14T13:24:00.000Z-Atsme-2018-02-14T13:20:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Martin

Thank you so much for your help getting the Booth's Gin article better informed, and so swiftly! May I ask for your assistance in renaming (or at least how to rename) the article currently entitled John Savage, KG? As should be obvious this is a misnoma, because anyone who has been knighted can be styled Sir, and in his instance he has been known as Sir John Savage, KG for time immemorial (especially since the post-noms KG differentiate him uniquely from others by the name of Sir John Savage, who weren't KGs).

Much obliged for your guidance & thanking you in advance for your assistance as it is good to have Wikipedia reflecting correct info.

217.169.51.41 (talk) 18:34, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T18:34:00.000Z","author":"217.169.51.41","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T18:34:00.000Z-John_Savage,_KG_tbr","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T18:58:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T18:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hi 217. Just tidying up a bit over there. Still looking a bit stubby. As for Sir John, yes that does look like a misnomer. Looking through all the others at Category:Knights of the Garter (and there are quite a few) I don't see any with that title format. It seems we already have a few others listed at the DAB page for John Savage, so we'll need to agree on a good distinctive name. Any thoughts? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:58, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T18:58:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T18:58:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T18:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:07:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T18:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

Many thanks, Martin, and would John Savage (1444–1492) fit the bill? Again thanks for tidying the Booth's Gin article; you're clearly vastly more experienced in such matters, so perhaps let others have a say & then revisit with more info (when we've thought of some!) in a few days' time? Cheers! 217.169.51.41 (talk) 19:07, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T19:07:00.000Z","author":"217.169.51.41","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:07:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T18:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:11:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

As you will see at John Savage, dates are not usually used for the titles of articles on people. The best place to look for advice is WP:TITLE, or more especially Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people). Martinevans123 (talk) 19:11, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T19:11:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:11:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:07:00.000Z","replies":["c-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:15:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

Noted, so what's wrong with Sir John Savage, KG since that is how he is known to most people (who've ever heard of him ofc!)? Will advise if can think of anything more appropriate. Thanks again. 217.169.51.41 (talk) 19:15, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T19:15:00.000Z","author":"217.169.51.41","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:15:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:23:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:15:00.000Z"]}}-->

PS. and since the post-noms "KG" don't fit the style, then surely just "Sir John Savage" would do... Any other Sir John Savages (none so far) who make the grade to have their own Wiki entry could then be distinguished by years? He was, after all, by far the most famous Sir John Savage ever to have lived. Anyway, thanks your consideration of this matter (because John Savage, KG apart from being wrong looks clumsy too). Best, 217.169.51.41 (talk) 19:23, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T19:23:00.000Z","author":"217.169.51.41","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:23:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:15:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:30:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

There is some advice for titles at Wikipedia:TITLESINTITLES. But, looking again at the Category, I see that a few do use just year of death e.g. Thomas Felton (died 1381) and Anthony Browne (died 1548). So I'd initially suggest John Savage (died 1492). I see that the article has been edited quite recently, including by User:Rodw, who I know is a very experienced and friendly editor. Although the name move will probably not be contentious, it's always a good idea to open a thread to discuss it first at the Talk page. Any editors who have that page on their watchlist will be able to see that a change is being proposed. So I'll open one there, where discussion can continue. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:30, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T19:30:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:30:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:37:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

That is a very good suggestion - thank you. 217.169.51.41 (talk) 19:37, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T19:37:00.000Z","author":"217.169.51.41","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:37:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:30:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:43:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ok, so I've started a thread at Talk:John Savage, KG. See you over there. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:43, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T19:43:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:43:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T19:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T20:36:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:43:00.000Z"]}}-->

My word, 217, something tells me you're not a newcomer, haha. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:36, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T20:36:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T20:36:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T19:43:00.000Z","replies":["c-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T21:40:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T20:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

You seem quite clued up - I hope my edits to trance music just now add value to Wiki's article. I hadn't realized that Rod hasn't much interest in the articles he edits, but anyway hope my small input is well received! Thanks again. 217.169.51.41 (talk) 21:40, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T21:40:00.000Z","author":"217.169.51.41","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T21:40:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T20:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T21:45:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T21:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

Generally, he does have a lot of interest, I think. It's easy to get thrown by a bit of random trance, isn't it. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:45, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T21:45:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T21:45:00.000Z-217.169.51.41-2018-02-17T21:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T21:55:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T21:45:00.000Z"]}}-->

Mesmerised, no doubt?!
PS. anyway, you are right - easy to get blown off course. Thanks for your help so far. 21:51, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

That last was just an excuse to lead me to Jules. If you see Fram, tell him I had a word with Jules and he said it was totally official. Just go ahead and do your thing. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:55, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-17T21:55:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":14,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T21:55:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-17T21:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

What makes you think the Martin Garrix link you posted is an official one? I can find no evidence that "Fu music" has the rights to this recordings, but perhaps I miss something. I presume you have checked this and can easily show me that this is not a copyvio link? Fram (talk) 07:56, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T07:56:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-19T07:56:00.000Z-John_Savage,_KG_tbr","replies":[]}}-->

Ah, Fram. What a coincidence that you should just appear like that. Yes, a good point, well spotted. I hadn’t noticed that. "Fu music" may not be an official channel it seems. So I’ve removed it. It’s not a performance by Martin Garrix of course, but by the Istanbul University State Conservatory. I can’t find that video on their website. I was probably distracted by the fact it’s been there for two years and has had 2,135,202 views. But as you’re here, perhaps you could now explain what you meant about "coincidental" addition on my part, with regard to the automatic Esperanto translation?

As you seem to be keen on avoiding copyvio, I’d still be very pleased to get your advice on these questions from the thread you opened on "Copyvio links" above. As you may have seen, I already asked User:Primefac above for his view, as well as on his Talk page, but he has so far neglected to answer:

• 1. Can a translation of a passage into a foreign language always be assumed to be a copy-vio? I mean, other languages use totally different words don't they, and express things in a different way, with different grammar?
• 2. If one doesn't know a language (like I don't know Esperanto, for example) how does one judge if it's copyvio? Is a machine translation (like GoogleTranslate) good enough to determine this?
• 3. Can links to what may be copyvio material never be used at Wikipedia, off article main space, for the purposes of discussion or illustration.

Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:15, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T13:15:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T13:15:00.000Z-John_Savage,_KG_tbr","replies":[]}}-->

As you obviously can't be bothered to stop adding links to copyright violations, despite multiple and recent warnings, you have been blocked. Fram (talk) 13:29, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z-Blocked","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:00:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","c-Bishonen-2018-02-19T17:22:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","c-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T18:46:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-19T19:00:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","c-Davey2010-2018-02-19T19:27:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","c-MONGO-2018-02-19T21:38:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","c-Berean_Hunter-2018-02-20T16:54:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","c-Drmies-2018-02-21T18:30:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","c-Yngvadottir-2018-02-22T14:25:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z"]}}-->

Eh? I've just removed the link that you seem to think was such a huge breach of policy? My linking was a mistake, which I fully admitted. I've done what you asked to me to and removed it immediately. And the result is you've now blocked me??? That just seems crazy. Vindictive almost. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:00, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T14:00:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:00:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fram-2018-02-19T14:16:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

No, I repeatedly asked you not to add links to youtube if you were not sure that they were by the copyright holders (e.g. links from the official BBC channel). Yet this is what you did yet again. While mistakes are acceptable, mistakes which happen again and again and where you have been explicitly warned not to make them again are not. I wanted to make sure that you really did add another link to a problematic youtube channel, and not to some official channel where I missed the indication that it was some rights holder for the performers or composers: but as you made clear that there was no such justification, there is no longer an excuse to let you continue editing like this. An editor where every edit (or every talk page edit at least) needs to be checked for copyvio links is not someone who should be allowed to continue editing. Fram (talk) 14:16, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T14:16:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-19T14:16:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:21:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T14:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

I think you are exaggerating both the size of the problem and my response to your advice. You previously seemed to be assuming I was editing in wholly bad faith. And you've also not answered my questions. So, for how long have you blocked me? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:21, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T14:21:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:21:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T14:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fram-2018-02-19T14:26:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:21:00.000Z"]}}-->

I note that you made the same kind of "mistake" at User talk:Ceoil yesterday, linking to copyrighted youtube videos there as well. Your "response" to advice seems to be "I'll remove them when you find them, but otherwise I won't change a thing", which is the reason you are now blocked. Indefinitely, which is until there is a clear indication that you'll stop adding such links anywhere on enwiki. Fram (talk) 14:26, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T14:26:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-19T14:26:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:21:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:37:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T14:26:00.000Z"]}}-->

I didn't realise you were following me around watching for incriminating evidence in the form of links to copyrighted Youtube videos. It's not always clear what's copyright and what isn't. I'm not the only editor who is unclear. You seem to wanting to a make an example of me. I'm really not sure how I can make such a "clear indication" that you will accept. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:37, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T14:37:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:37:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T14:26:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fram-2018-02-19T14:51:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

"It's not always clear what's copyright and what isn't. " If you don't have a good reason to believe that something is not copyrighted, then you should not link to it (or otherwise use it). That should have been very clear by now. Your position seems to be "if I don't know if it is a copyvio link, I'll link to it anyway and hope no one notices it". That's not a case of wanting to make an example of you, that's a case of an editor where I am aware of problematic behaviour who continues with the same behaviour after multiple warnings over a prolonged period. Fram (talk) 14:51, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T14:51:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-19T14:51:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:57:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T14:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

I see. I'll find it difficult to remove any offending links, which I may have inadvertently left, on other user's Talk pages, or to pass on your policy message, while I'm indefinitely blocked. But perhaps you have compiled a long list of such violations, that you're prepared to work through yourself? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:57, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T14:57:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:57:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T14:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fram-2018-02-19T15:01:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

At least now you're unable to add any further such links, which is what the block is trying to prevent. If I had blocked you while you were indeed actively removing such old links on your own, then it would indeed be a crazy block. But all you remove are the ones I find after a cursory search and post here, and afterwards you simply add other similar problematic links ("inadvertently" of course, as a "mistake", but a mistake that happens again and again and again). Fram (talk) 15:01, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T15:01:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-19T15:01:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T14:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T15:07:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T15:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm unable to edit the encyclopedia at all. You must see the potential risk of "contributory copyright infringement" that I will expose the project to as far outweighing the benefit of improvements I might make. What percentage of my edits have breached policy in this regard so far? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:07, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T15:07:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T15:07:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T15:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fram-2018-02-19T15:24:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T15:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

I was not aware that we have some policy which says that you are allowed to make problematic edits as long as you make enough productive ones. Perhaps you can make such a proposal if and when you get unblocked. Unless you show any indication that you realise the problem with these edits and are willing to change your approach, I'm done here. Fram (talk) 15:24, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T15:24:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-19T15:24:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T15:07:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T15:30:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T15:24:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm fully aware of the "problem" with these edits. My difficulty seems to be in identifying what's a breach of copyright and what isn't. I think your indefinite block is overly harsh and punitive. That's just my personal view. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:30, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T15:30:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T15:30:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T15:24:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Fram, I don't offer any opinion on the block myself, but I think you should put it on ANI for community review, since Martinevans123 is an experienced and constructive contributor. Bishonen | talk 17:22, 19 February 2018 (UTC).[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T17:22:00.000Z","author":"Bishonen","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bishonen-2018-02-19T17:22:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Fram-2018-02-19T17:32:00.000Z-Bishonen-2018-02-19T17:22:00.000Z","c-NeilN-2018-02-19T17:38:00.000Z-Bishonen-2018-02-19T17:22:00.000Z"]}}-->
  • They can put up an unblock request, and/or they can give some indication that they take any actual note of the problem and won't repeat the issues. Being experienced and constructive is not a "get-out-of-jail" card. Their whole attitude in this sorry episode is the opposite of constructive anyway. Fram (talk) 17:32, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T17:32:00.000Z","author":"Fram","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Fram-2018-02-19T17:32:00.000Z-Bishonen-2018-02-19T17:22:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
  • Martinevans123, can you just agree not to link to any Youtube videos unless they have an appropriate license in the "Show More" section? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 17:38, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T17:38:00.000Z","author":"NeilN","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-NeilN-2018-02-19T17:38:00.000Z-Bishonen-2018-02-19T17:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T18:44:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T17:38:00.000Z"]}}-->
    • Hi Neil. That sounds easy. But I'm not too sure what "an appropriate license" means. The one here says "Standard YouTube Licence", so does that mean this is ok to post? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:44, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T18:44:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T18:44:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T17:38:00.000Z","replies":["c-NeilN-2018-02-19T19:19:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T18:44:00.000Z"]}}-->
      • Technically, yes. In your case, no. I'll explain. "Standard YouTube License" can be used by any uploader, for any video, including copyright violations. However in this case the uploader is BBC News, the copyright holder, verified by checking if the channel is mentioned on their website (and the "verified" checkmark beside their name). If you aren't willing to do these checks then you have to look for videos with these or other free-to-use licenses. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 19:19, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:19:00.000Z","author":"NeilN","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-NeilN-2018-02-19T19:19:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T18:44:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:26:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T19:19:00.000Z"]}}-->
        • I'm quite willing to make checks. It seems a very good idea. But I'm still a bit confused here.... It's not just a case of looking for "an appropriate license", but also one of finding a website and the "verified" checkmark in the "SHOW MORE" section? (I can see an example of the "Creative Commons Attribution licence (reuse allowed)" licence in the video here). Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:26, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:26:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:26:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T19:19:00.000Z","replies":["c-NeilN-2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:26:00.000Z"]}}-->
          • You need to do some due diligence and use common sense here. For example, if a YouTube user called "BBCFootball4Evah" put up a football match broadcasted by the BBC and used the Standard License (or any other license), would you think they were the copyright holder and had the right to put up that video? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 19:47, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z","author":"NeilN","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-NeilN-2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:26:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:52:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z"]}}-->
            • I think I'd have my doubts. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:52, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:52:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:52:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• It would have been better to take this to AN/I first for consensus. Fram, please unblock, then if you want you can open an AN discussion about editors posting links on user talk. SarahSV ^(talk) 18:46, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T18:46:00.000Z","author":"SlimVirgin","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T18:46:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T18:54:00.000Z-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T18:46:00.000Z"],"displayName":"SarahSV"}}-->

• I was just about to "send public thanks", SarahSV. But of course people "in jail" aren't allowed to thank anyone that way, are they. So I'll just publicly thank you here instead. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:54, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T18:54:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T18:54:00.000Z-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T18:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Two days in a row I am shocked. I am probably not in a position to say please unblock. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:00, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:00:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-19T19:00:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:08:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-19T19:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

• No, Gerda, yesterday's was User:Ceoil not me. And a different Admin, of course. I'd post you a video clip to say thanks, but I suspect that would be viewed as the "opposite of constructive". Thanks anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:08, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:08:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:08:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-19T19:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-19T19:18:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Virtual thanks for virtual music. I was in a desert today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:18, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:18:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-19T19:18:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:08:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:31:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-19T19:18:00.000Z"]}}-->

• How amazing, Gerda. That looks incredible. I'm very jealous! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:31, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:31:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:31:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-19T19:18:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Maybe it's my lack of understanding on the whole copyvio thing but I honestly see no issue with what Martin does ..... Anyway I would recommend unblocking and starting a community discussion over at ANI (or unblocking and then starting an RFC on this whole YouTube linking thing). Either way blocking indef was not appropriate IMHO. –Davey2010^Talk 19:27, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:27:00.000Z","author":"Davey2010","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Davey2010-2018-02-19T19:27:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Iridescent-2018-02-19T19:40:00.000Z-Davey2010-2018-02-19T19:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

@Davey2010, while there's certainly an argument that blocking was an overreaction, policy as currently written is absolutely clear that Fram acted correctly. (WP:ELNEVER, WP:LINKVIO and WP:CV#Addressing contributors, if you need chapter and verse.) Since WP:ELNEVER in particular is explicitly to be applied by admins without exception, if any admin other than Fram were unilaterally to overturn this particular block it would be a suicide mission since arbcom would have no alternative but to desysop that admin. (All it needs is an "I won't do it again" from Martin and it will be liftable.) ‑ Iridescent 19:40, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:40:00.000Z","author":"Iridescent","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Iridescent-2018-02-19T19:40:00.000Z-Davey2010-2018-02-19T19:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:43:00.000Z-Iridescent-2018-02-19T19:40:00.000Z","c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T19:44:00.000Z-Iridescent-2018-02-19T19:40:00.000Z","c-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z-Iridescent-2018-02-19T19:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for cheering things up for us all, Iri. I'm still busy learning about YouTube licences from Neil. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:43, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:43:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:43:00.000Z-Iridescent-2018-02-19T19:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

(ec) And in this case it boils down to the fact that Martin has been warned in the past about posting copious links to probably copyvio YouTube videos to no tangible benefit to the encyclopedia. In this situation, the only thing I could recommend Martin do is to apologise, recognise that posting any links to external videos is now verboten as he admits to not understanding how to determine whether or not they infringe copyright, and request an unblock. Until then, I see this as being one permanent goodbye. Which, despite all of our run-ins, even yesterday, would be a shame as when Martin works on content, it's beneficial to all of us. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:44, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:44:00.000Z","author":"The Rambling Man","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T19:44:00.000Z-Iridescent-2018-02-19T19:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:51:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T19:44:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks, Ramblo. Your comments seem very fair. Thing is though, although you say "he admits to not understanding", I'd rather learn. And to see clear guidelines for all on a policy page. Or perhaps you'd prefer "one permanent goodbye?" I could take a vote on that one. A "run in"?? I thought that was just playtime for you? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:51, 19 February 2018 (UTC) I noticed you bilingualistic skills, there.[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:51:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:51:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T19:44:00.000Z","replies":["c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T19:57:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm cool with most things. You've hit upon an interesting topic, but I think you need to realise that linking to videos etc on talkpages is a waste of time, and a little like using Wikipedia as Facebook. If you're adding videos to articles then that'd be ok as long as they comply with the usual media requirements. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:57, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:57:00.000Z","author":"The Rambling Man","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T19:57:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:01:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T19:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

Buy there we have it... Not just a waste of time unfortunately. They say it is a capital offence. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:01, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T20:01:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:01:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T19:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T20:04:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

I know all this piping is your natural defence, but you'd do better to just accept the issue and do what I suggested. That way you're back in the game. If not, you'll be forced to create another sock. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:04, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T20:04:00.000Z","author":"The Rambling Man","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T20:04:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:07:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T20:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

Not another one, surely? I've lost count. But ah yes, I love cricket. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:07, 19 February 2018 (UTC) ...but whatever you say sugar daddy....[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T20:07:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:07:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T20:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T20:18:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'll leave you to it. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:18, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T20:18:00.000Z","author":"The Rambling Man","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T20:18:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:07:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

(edit conflict)Eek. I just saw the struck and italicised username and thought 'what the hell', and was to comment that this was a bad block, but fair enough. @Iridescent: so no room for a ANI discussion to discuss the block and let another admin overturn? Of course there needs to be assurances that this linking will not happen again. !dave 19:47, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z","author":"My name is not dave","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z-Iridescent-2018-02-19T19:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:56:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z","c-Iridescent-2018-02-19T20:14:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

Welcome to my talk page crowded cell, !Dave. I've always secretly suspected that your name was Dave. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:56, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T19:56:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:56:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z","replies":["c-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-02-19T20:01:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

The mystery can only be revealed if you are an OTRS agent... !dave 20:01, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T20:01:00.000Z","author":"My name is not dave","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-02-19T20:01:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T19:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:09:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-02-19T20:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ah yes, I might have guessed there'd be some kind of subterfuge involved. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:09, 19 February 2018 (UTC) [reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T20:09:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:09:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-02-19T20:01:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

My name is not dave, the formula is indefinite, pending satisfactory assurances that infringement will not continue - e.g. unless and until either it's proven that the block was in error, or Martin agrees to stop posting copyvios, an ANI discussion won't make any difference. WP:CV is a legal policy so any change to it would need to go via the WMF; a discussion at ANI (or anywhere) won't have authority to amend it. ‑ Iridescent 20:14, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T20:14:00.000Z","author":"Iridescent","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Iridescent-2018-02-19T20:14:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-02-19T19:47:00.000Z","replies":["c-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T20:18:00.000Z-Iridescent-2018-02-19T20:14:00.000Z"]}}-->

Iridescent, that's an extreme interpretation of policy. Similarly, we could block editors who add too many block quotes to articles, in case they've inadvertently quoted the most important part of a book or too much of it. Anyway, Martin, the best thing is to agree not to do it again. SarahSV ^(talk) 20:18, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T20:18:00.000Z","author":"SlimVirgin","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T20:18:00.000Z-Iridescent-2018-02-19T20:14:00.000Z","replies":["c-Iridescent-2018-02-19T20:21:00.000Z-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T20:18:00.000Z","c-NeilN-2018-02-19T20:35:00.000Z-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T20:18:00.000Z"],"displayName":"SarahSV"}}-->

SlimVirgin, that's not an "interpretation", that's a verbatim quote from the policy. ‑ Iridescent 20:21, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T20:21:00.000Z","author":"Iridescent","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Iridescent-2018-02-19T20:21:00.000Z-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T20:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:28:00.000Z-Iridescent-2018-02-19T20:21:00.000Z"]}}-->

As far as Fram is concerned, it's not just million-view YouTube videos, it's a "bigger picture" involving, for example, automatic Esperanto translations. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:28, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T20:28:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T20:28:00.000Z-Iridescent-2018-02-19T20:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

@SlimVirgin: I do block editors who add too many block quotes. They get one warning and then they're indefinitely blocked if the behavior continues. They're asked to explain in their own words why they were blocked and how they will avoid violating policy in the future. Their responses often reveal they're not proficient enough in English to write content using their own words and a limited time block would do nothing to solve this. Martin - question for you. Why are you treating video different from text? If you came across an unpaywalled copy of the NY Times on www.free4all.com I assume you wouldn't link to it or use it as a reference? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 20:35, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T20:35:00.000Z","author":"NeilN","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-NeilN-2018-02-19T20:35:00.000Z-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T20:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T21:57:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T20:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well, I'm very glad that you can see there's a difference in my behaviour. I probably wouldn't be adding NY Times text of any kind in a casual jokey manner on a fellow editor's Talk page. And I wouldn't typically be linking YouTube videos in article main space either. I think I'd be more likely to be deleting them as being WP:PRIMARY. I've deleted a few on that basis. I must admit I have assumed in the past that User Talk pages were somehow less important as far as copyright violation was concerned. That seems to be a view shared by very many editors. But User:Diannaa tells me that's not the case, which still seems odd to me. I'd still like to know what a "verified checkmark" looks like in a YouTube "SHOW MORE" section. I mostly just see websites, such as the ones shown here. I've assumed that's "official" because it links to the orchestra website. Can you tell me if that is a correct assumption? I'm now guessing that anyone can add a website to a video. I'd like to be able to tell easily what is legitimate and what is not, as it seems my assessments have occasionally been a bit hasty. Thanks for engaging in discussion here, which I'm hoping will be useful for other editors who might find themselves in the same position. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:57, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T21:57:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T21:57:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T20:35:00.000Z","replies":["c-NeilN-2018-02-19T22:37:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T21:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

The verified checkmark is beside the account name (example), not in the "Show more" section. And in your orchestra example, you've got the scenario backwards. You need to check if the website links to the YouTube account. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 22:37, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:37:00.000Z","author":"NeilN","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-NeilN-2018-02-19T22:37:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T21:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:47:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T22:37:00.000Z","c-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T22:43:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T22:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ah, I see. Many thanks, That is pretty clear. Those two checks prescribe all legitimate YouTube videos for use at Wikipedia ? Is that written down as a policy anywhere? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:47, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:47:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:47:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T22:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-NeilN-2018-02-19T22:56:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

The policy is "don't link to copyright violations". I'm telling you how to figure out what is a copyright violation. If some anonymous person dumped the entire text of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone somewhere on the web, I don't think you need specific policy instructions telling you that that's a copyright violation and therefore not to link to it. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 22:56, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:56:00.000Z","author":"NeilN","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-NeilN-2018-02-19T22:56:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:47:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T23:08:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T22:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

That also seems pretty clear. I think most people would spot that onYT music video that's been watched millions of times? Or even a small machine translation in Esperanto of a recently deleted Wikipedia article? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:08, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T23:08:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T23:08:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T22:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-NeilN-2018-02-19T23:26:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T23:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

It doesn't matter what the play count is - some companies are lax about enforcing their copyrights. It should take no more than a couple minutes to figure out the copyright status. If you are unsure, email someone with the link. The machine translation example is more complicated but bottom line again, email someone. I'm trying to get you unblocked but right now, the onus is on you to state how you're going to change your linking practices. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 23:26, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T23:26:00.000Z","author":"NeilN","type":"comment","level":14,"id":"c-NeilN-2018-02-19T23:26:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T23:08:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T23:41:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T23:26:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for your helpful advice. Yes, I'm sure it would change my linking practices. Please don't feel you have to rush. I'm looking at all the vandalism on my watch list and realising that I no longer feel obliged to issue a level 1 warning, and then issue a level 2 warning and then you know, eventually raise a post at WP:AIV. All that stuff. It can be quite a chore, can't it. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:41, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T23:41:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":15,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T23:41:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T23:26:00.000Z","replies":["c-NeilN-2018-02-19T23:54:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T23:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

There might be some confusion here. We (or at least I) are waiting for you to post an unblock request that includes how you're going to change your linking practices. I see that Fram didn't post unblock request instructions. Here: Please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=''Your reason here''}} --NeilN ^{talk to me} 23:54, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T23:54:00.000Z","author":"NeilN","type":"comment","level":16,"id":"c-NeilN-2018-02-19T23:54:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T23:41:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

NeilN, when you block editors for block quotes, they're probably extreme cases: pasting large amounts of text with quotation marks. This is someone posting links on user talk. But Martin, really, the easiest thing now is for you to agree that you won't do it again. SarahSV ^(talk) 22:43, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:43:00.000Z","author":"SlimVirgin","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T22:43:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-02-19T22:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:55:00.000Z-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T22:43:00.000Z"],"displayName":"SarahSV"}}-->

I certainly won't deliberately do it again. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:55, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:55:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:55:00.000Z-SlimVirgin-2018-02-19T22:43:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Guess best thing since YouTube is not a reliable reference anyway I think (what do I know as I am just a MONGO) so maybe just pledge to never link to that dreaded site again since it's naughty stuff.--MONGO 21:38, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T21:38:00.000Z","author":"MONGO","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-MONGO-2018-02-19T21:38:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:03:00.000Z-MONGO-2018-02-19T21:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Thanks for your note, MONGO. I'm sorry I can't do that, as it would be contrary to policy (as I understand it) and because I genuinely believe that YouTube videos can provide a resource that can enhance understanding of a subject, particularly a musical one. I'm also still considering taking Ramblo's "one permanent goodbye" option in protest over the harshness of Fram's indefinite block. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:03, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:03:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:03:00.000Z-MONGO-2018-02-19T21:38:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:20:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:03:00.000Z","c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T22:18:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

• There still seems to be some discussion over whether it's fair, or if anyone else can fairly overturn it, or whether there should have been an AN/I case, or if there should a still be an AN/I case. I'm sure Fram thinks he's "just doing his job." Martinevans123 (talk) 22:20, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:20:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:20:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->
• It's not really an "option", it's an inevitability. What you'll find (and I know this) is that after one or two days of being blocked, you're quickly forgotten. Three or four days and it's "hmm, who?". So if you really want to get back into the game, I'd follow my advice. If you don't, oh well, it happens. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:18, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:18:00.000Z","author":"The Rambling Man","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T22:18:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:22:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T22:18:00.000Z"]}}-->

You said above you were going to "leave me to it". You're now saying my goodbye is "an inevitability"? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:22, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:22:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:22:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T22:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T22:28:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

I guess so. I thought, for a moment, you were going to do the sensible thing, but I can see from all the joking around that you still really don't get it. Bye Martin, I'd like to say it's been fun, but it hasn't. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:28, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:28:00.000Z","author":"The Rambling Man","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T22:28:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:33:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T22:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

Wow. I fear you have shown your true colours. Thanks for all the support there. When did my deadline expire exactly? Perhaps you can tell me if Fram is actually "done" here or not. Which bit of "joking around" didn't you like? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:33, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-19T22:33:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:33:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-19T22:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kieronoldham-2018-02-20T01:57:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

Martin, forgive me for jumping in here, you're far more eminent than me, and I hope you don't think in the slightest I'm being patronizing here, but the sentences "I think you should put it on ANI for community review" & "They can put up an unblock request, and/or they can give some indication that they take any actual note of the problem and won't repeat the issues." I'd hate to see Wiki. lose you. All the best--Kieronoldham (talk) 01:57, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-20T01:57:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-02-20T01:57:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-19T22:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-GreenMeansGo-2018-02-20T02:44:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-02-20T01:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

+1 GMG^talk 02:44, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-20T02:44:00.000Z","author":"GreenMeansGo","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-GreenMeansGo-2018-02-20T02:44:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-02-20T01:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ianmacm-2018-02-20T06:32:00.000Z-GreenMeansGo-2018-02-20T02:44:00.000Z"],"displayName":"GMG"}}-->

There is the Michael Jackson - Thriller (Official Video) on michaeljacksonVEVO which is OK as it is official. There is also the Michael Jackson's "Thriller" Tribute in LEGO which has seven million views and is great fun to watch, but it is an unofficial fan tribute and is probably a copyright violation somewhere along the way. WP:YOUTUBE makes clear that there are many videos like this. If Martin agreed not to post any links to YouTube videos at all, it wouldn't be a great loss. They are rarely suitable as citations anyway.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:32, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-20T06:32:00.000Z","author":"Ianmacm","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Ianmacm-2018-02-20T06:32:00.000Z-GreenMeansGo-2018-02-20T02:44:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-27T22:35:00.000Z-Ianmacm-2018-02-20T06:32:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u2666IanMacM\u2666"}}-->

Only a loss to the lawyers, I guess. And anyway, I thought Michael loved Lego. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:35, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-27T22:35:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-27T22:35:00.000Z-Ianmacm-2018-02-20T06:32:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Martin, I realize that you don't seem to be in any hurry to be unblocked (you do want unblocked, right?) but all that is really required is that you file an unblock request and give assurances that you won't be posting any video links until you have a proper understanding of what you can post. You don't have to have that understanding at the present to do this. If you feel that the policies and guidelines aren't clear then you can post for clarification on the respective talk pages to start a discussion. It isn't all that hard. :) It would be easier on those folks who are trying to help you if you would just file the damn request promise to refrain from posting any videos.
   — Berean Hunter (talk) 16:54, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-20T16:54:00.000Z","author":"Berean Hunter","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Berean_Hunter-2018-02-20T16:54:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-20T22:35:00.000Z-Berean_Hunter-2018-02-20T16:54:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Hi Berean Hunter. Thanks for the helpful advice and thanks for the slow poke. Fram neglected to post a template. He must think I'm a regular. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:35, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-20T22:35:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-20T22:35:00.000Z-Berean_Hunter-2018-02-20T16:54:00.000Z","replies":["c-Berean_Hunter-2018-02-20T23:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-20T22:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Read Wikipedia:Guide to appealing blocks and post that template here.
   — Berean Hunter (talk) 23:49, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-20T23:49:00.000Z","author":"Berean Hunter","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Berean_Hunter-2018-02-20T23:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-02-20T22:35:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• I've seen those unblock requests and I know what they look like. Martin, don't do it again please. Drmies (talk) 18:30, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-21T18:30:00.000Z","author":"Drmies","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Drmies-2018-02-21T18:30:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-27T21:20:00.000Z-Drmies-2018-02-21T18:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Doc Mice. I'm glad you saw them. Thanks for your liberating intervention. And thanks for your polite and wholly reasonable request. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:20, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-27T21:20:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-27T21:20:00.000Z-Drmies-2018-02-21T18:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Martin, I hope you don't mind, but yes, your work is valued and yes, so's your wit and friendliness. NeilN actually gave you the formula up above, but I think it's got lost, so here it is again: this is what you copy and fill in. {{unblock|reason=''Your reason here''}} Hope to see you elsewhere on-wiki soon. Yngvadottir (talk) 14:25, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-22T14:25:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2018-02-22T14:25:00.000Z-Fram-2018-02-19T13:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-22T14:27:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2018-02-22T14:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

  He was unblocked about 20 hours ago. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:27, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-22T14:27:00.000Z","author":"The Rambling Man","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-22T14:27:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2018-02-22T14:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Yngvadottir-2018-02-22T14:34:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-22T14:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

Oh good! Pardon my perpetual slowness. Yngvadottir (talk) 14:34, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-22T14:34:00.000Z","author":"Yngvadottir","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Yngvadottir-2018-02-22T14:34:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-02-22T14:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-27T22:00:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2018-02-22T14:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yngvadottir. I certainly don't mind. Thank you so much for such kind words. Yes, I saw the formula and it was good of NeilN to give it. Pardon my sloth. Hope to be back soon. Even after many more than a few hours. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:00, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-27T22:00:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-27T22:00:00.000Z-Yngvadottir-2018-02-22T14:34:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Martin, I am delighted to see you back here. With best wishes DBaK (talk) 22:12, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-28T22:12:00.000Z","author":"DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered-2018-02-28T22:12:00.000Z-Blocked","replies":[],"displayName":"DBaK"}}-->

Personally, I think linking to YouTube videos is to copyright infringement what talking about narcotics is to trafficking heroin. Plus a block here does nothing to address the actual problem on YouTube any more than sticking somebody in the slammer for a bag of grass helps curb the activities of Columbian drug barons. Welcome back, Martin. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:10, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-04T19:10:00.000Z","author":"Ritchie333","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ritchie333-2018-03-04T19:10:00.000Z-Blocked","replies":[]}}-->

Hi dude, you're unblocked, hope to see you soon. Govindaharihari (talk) 07:42, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-23T07:42:00.000Z","author":"Govindaharihari","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Govindaharihari-2018-02-23T07:42:00.000Z-come_back_Martin","replies":["c-Ceoil-2018-02-24T03:20:00.000Z-Govindaharihari-2018-02-23T07:42:00.000Z","c-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:16:00.000Z-Govindaharihari-2018-02-23T07:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

Seconded. There are few people I can argue with over Nike Drake with such mischievousness and passion. Ceoil (talk) 03:20, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-24T03:20:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ceoil-2018-02-24T03:20:00.000Z-Govindaharihari-2018-02-23T07:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T03:41:00.000Z-Ceoil-2018-02-24T03:20:00.000Z"]}}-->

He's observing. Believe me. All the best regardless though, Martin. You largely maintained my drive in the area of skill you noted I have, and you helped hone, and which I continue to focus on.--Kieronoldham (talk) 03:41, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-24T03:41:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T03:41:00.000Z-Ceoil-2018-02-24T03:20:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:05:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T03:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well, when he is finished his "observing", he might get back to article work, given Drmies fair and reasoned unblock. The Rambling Man paints a bleak picture of where martyrdom will get you, I concur having kown more than a few that contributed migthely, gave up in disgust without drama or exit speaches, and after a week or so....whoosh, as far the admin core could give a damn. The internet is a cold and lonely universe. Ceoil (talk) 04:05, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-24T04:05:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:05:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T03:41:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T04:12:00.000Z-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:05:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ceoil Regardless of what I stated, I agree with your sentiment. "Gafas" (certainly latterly) aside we're a community. Keep up your good work too. Limey.--Kieronoldham (talk) 04:12, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-24T04:12:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T04:12:00.000Z-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:05:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

No worries Kieron. Yes we are a community. Ceoil (talk) 04:16, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-24T04:16:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:16:00.000Z-Govindaharihari-2018-02-23T07:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T04:23:00.000Z-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ceoil. It's okay mate. I hope I am wrong although I suspect a guild of some form ("MUST KEEP EDITING"? ALWAYS indifferent given personal nurturing and support). Regardless, Martin has been nurturing, supportive, and humorous to so many of us. Stay focused yourself.--Kieronoldham (talk) 04:23, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-24T04:23:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T04:23:00.000Z-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:26:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T04:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

Tell him to get is ass back in here. He is a significant net positive. End of story. Ceoil (talk) 04:26, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-24T04:26:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:26:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T04:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T04:38:00.000Z-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:26:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hey, get the guy to "haul ass" to the Pennines, Ceoil and I'll do so on a personal basis. Regardless of cheap geographical humour... I don't know the guy beyond here on Wiki. Chill with a tune. Back to focus, I hope I do hear from him. Stay chilled yourself and I'll keep you informed. Kez.--Kieronoldham (talk) 04:38, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-24T04:38:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-02-24T04:38:00.000Z-Ceoil-2018-02-24T04:26:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

despised and rejected

the desert is a good place for introspection

Miriam Makeba

(4 March 1932 – 9 November 2008)

• Martin, take your time over feeling rejected, with an image for a time of Lent which I chose yesterday (Handel's birthday) to illustrate He was despised. Composed in 1741, with all those speaking rests: "He was -- despised, - despised and - rejected, - – rejected of men, ... – despi-sed – rejected"". From the cable of the outcasts, most of whom felt the same at some time more recently than that. I made the redirect in March 2012. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:33, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-24T08:33:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-24T08:33:00.000Z-come_back_Martin","replies":["c-Xanthomelanoussprog-2018-02-25T08:39:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-24T08:33:00.000Z","c-202.137.16.115-2018-02-25T19:08:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-24T08:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

• …and also from Handel's Messiah the chorus "Oh we like sheep, all gone astray, that we will turn, each to our own way". Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 08:39, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-25T08:39:00.000Z","author":"Xanthomelanoussprog","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Xanthomelanoussprog-2018-02-25T08:39:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-24T08:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Blue Monday and Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme are worth listening to whilst waiting, which hopefully shouldn't be too long. L'honorable (talk) 19:08, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-25T19:08:00.000Z","author":"202.137.16.115","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-202.137.16.115-2018-02-25T19:08:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-02-24T08:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-27T22:11:00.000Z-202.137.16.115-2018-02-25T19:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks Gerda, not such a harsh desert, really. I shall listen to those. It's seems to be the honourable thing to do. "Jakarta??" --- "No she she went on 'er own, on a jumbo." Martinevans123 (talk) 22:11, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-27T22:11:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-27T22:11:00.000Z-202.137.16.115-2018-02-25T19:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Martin, I also really hope to see you back editing on Wikipedia someday – I miss your sense of humour, and crossing paths with you on music articles from the pre-internet era that desperately need improving. And Ceoil, if you need someone to argue with over Nick Drake in Martin's absence, I'm always available... Richard3120 (talk) 00:46, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-27T00:46:00.000Z","author":"Richard3120","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Richard3120-2018-02-27T00:46:00.000Z-come_back_Martin","replies":["c-Softlavender-2018-02-27T02:44:00.000Z-Richard3120-2018-02-27T00:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Hi Martin, I've been away for three weeks and just now saw this kerfuffle. I hope you are doing well and that when you see fit we'll see your bright shining face again. Much love, Softlavender (talk) 02:44, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-27T02:44:00.000Z","author":"Softlavender","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Softlavender-2018-02-27T02:44:00.000Z-Richard3120-2018-02-27T00:46:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sluzzelin-2018-02-27T20:39:00.000Z-Softlavender-2018-02-27T02:44:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Seconded (Softlavender's second and third sentence). Lookin' forward to more ussinfay, and shafafa on the side. ---Sluzzelin talk 20:39, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-27T20:39:00.000Z","author":"Sluzzelin","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Sluzzelin-2018-02-27T20:39:00.000Z-Softlavender-2018-02-27T02:44:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-05T22:13:00.000Z-Sluzzelin-2018-02-27T20:39:00.000Z","c-Alex_Shih-2018-03-05T14:43:00.000Z-Sluzzelin-2018-02-27T20:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

• (I'm already desperately checking the back of my sauce cupboard for past-their-sell-by 8-year old Finnish copyvios). But yes Sluzzelin, what a king he will forever be. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:13, 5 March 2018 (UTC) (... what a beautifully neat and glittering solo that is).[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-05T22:13:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-05T22:13:00.000Z-Sluzzelin-2018-02-27T20:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• Missed out on what happened, but my thoughts are the same. Your contributions are greatly admired and I also hope you are doing well too. Alex Shih (talk) 14:43, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-05T14:43:00.000Z","author":"Alex Shih","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Alex_Shih-2018-03-05T14:43:00.000Z-Sluzzelin-2018-02-27T20:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-05T22:18:00.000Z-Alex_Shih-2018-03-05T14:43:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-06T22:03:00.000Z-Alex_Shih-2018-03-05T14:43:00.000Z"]}}-->

• Alex, I'm so glad you missed that. Thanks so much, that really means a lot. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:18, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-05T22:18:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-05T22:18:00.000Z-Alex_Shih-2018-03-05T14:43:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Martin, do you want to correct the spelling of your name on ANI? - Missing: I miss people. Alex: did you see my name here? He also took the warning sign (to his user page) that says (in German) "He who speaks a word of consolation is a traitor" (which I had on my user page until 2015.) - More my talk, look for F minor. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:03, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-06T22:03:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-06T22:03:00.000Z-Alex_Shih-2018-03-05T14:43:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

More mellow after the black despair pictured above, here's a subtle hint at a composer from Wales (click on Waterhouse), and the first church I knew pictured. F minor is gone, G minor now. Will hear the cantata now! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:10, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-11T17:10:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-11T17:10:00.000Z-come_back_Martin","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-11T20:40:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-11T17:10:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for that, Gerda. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:40, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-11T20:40:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-11T20:40:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-11T17:10:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-11T21:00:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-11T20:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you for improving the composer's article! - It was outstanding, depth and heights. The "erlösen" (redeem, but the German word has to do with loosening) was perfectly light and loose! The soloist (whose article just survived AfD) also sang as part of the youth choir, and looked like enjoying it! - Did you see the AfD for the woman from Wales pictured on the Main page, which may come up again, - closed because she was on the Main page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:00, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-11T21:00:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-11T21:00:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-11T20:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-11T21:16:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-11T21:00:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm trying to avoid the front^* at all costs. That looks like a very well-written and well-researched article. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:16, 11 March 2018 (UTC) ^* "All Fur Coat and No knickers"?[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-11T21:16:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-11T21:16:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-11T21:00:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		Hope we see you again, Martin, but if not (and hopefully this won't unfold as being the case), I wanted to add this to your page. I could have added an Original, Random Acts of Kindness, or Editor's Barnstar, but thought this one to be the best. Please don't rest on superlative laurels.Kieronoldham (talk) 04:30, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-25T04:30:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-02-25T04:30:00.000Z-Kudos","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-02-27T22:17:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-02-25T04:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you so much Kieron. Yes, hopefully. As if I would. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:17, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-27T22:17:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-02-27T22:17:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-02-25T04:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The leek is one of the national emblems of Wales, worn along with the daffodil (in Welsh, the daffodil is known as "Peter's leek", Cenhinen Bedr) on St. David's Day. According to one legend, King Cadwaladr of Gwynedd ordered his soldiers to identify themselves by wearing the vegetable on their helmets in an ancient battle against the Saxons that took place in a leek field.^[1] Cheers!‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones ^{The Welsh Buzzard} ‑ ‑ 15:55, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-02-28T15:55:00.000Z","author":"Gareth Griffith-Jones","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-02-28T15:55:00.000Z-Happy_St._David's_Day","replies":[],"displayName":"Gareth Griffith\u2011Jones"}}-->

References

1. ^ The Mirror of Literature, Amusement, and Instruction. Vol. 5. London: J Limbard. 1825.

And to you, Gareth! What an interesting source. I guess that must have been Allium-loving Cadwallon ap Cadfan? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:51, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-01T12:51:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-01T12:51:00.000Z-Happy_St._David's_Day","replies":["c-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-03-01T15:38:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-01T12:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

Great to hear back from you! Great link, thanks. ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones ^{The Welsh Buzzard} ‑ ‑ 15:38, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-01T15:38:00.000Z","author":"Gareth Griffith-Jones","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-03-01T15:38:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-01T12:51:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Gareth Griffith\u2011Jones"}}-->

There is an RfC at Talk:Daily Mail#Request for comment: Other criticisms section. Your input would be most helpful. --Guy Macon (talk) 12:24, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-01T12:24:00.000Z","author":"Guy Macon","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Guy_Macon-2018-03-01T12:24:00.000Z-Another_Daily_Mail_RfC","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-01T12:46:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2018-03-01T12:24:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hi Guy. Tend to agree with L.R. Wormwood. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:46, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-01T12:46:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-01T12:46:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2018-03-01T12:24:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Martin. Saw your simplification on Blaenffos and wondered if you knew whether alt text can be added to the caption in the infobox? Cheers, Tony Tony Holkham (Talk) 23:07, 3 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-03T23:07:00.000Z","author":"Tony Holkham","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tony_Holkham-2018-03-03T23:07:00.000Z-Alt_text","replies":["c-Tony_Holkham-2018-03-03T23:37:00.000Z-Tony_Holkham-2018-03-03T23:07:00.000Z","c-Martinevans123-2018-03-04T09:39:00.000Z-Tony_Holkham-2018-03-03T23:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

Is OK; I found this: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility/Alternative_text_for_images#Captions_and_nearby_text. Tony Holkham (Talk) 23:37, 3 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-03T23:37:00.000Z","author":"Tony Holkham","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Tony_Holkham-2018-03-03T23:37:00.000Z-Tony_Holkham-2018-03-03T23:07:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Ah yes, that looks a useful option. Many thanks Tony. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:39, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-04T09:39:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-04T09:39:00.000Z-Tony_Holkham-2018-03-03T23:07:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T21:36:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-04T09:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

But not sure it can be used at Template:infobox UK place? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:36, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-06T21:36:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T21:36:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-04T09:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-06T21:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T21:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

When an old-fashioned infobox doesn't have it, you can do 2 things: demand it added (also a image_upright parameter), or code it all in the image field, example all churches that I touch, such as St. Martin (has no alt, but I guess you can imagine). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:49, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-06T21:49:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-06T21:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T21:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T21:52:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-06T21:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

Oh, thanks Gerda. How would I demand that? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-06T21:52:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T21:52:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-06T21:49:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-06T22:06:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T21:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

You go to the template talk and say that {{infobox person}} has these features, and template xyz should also have them. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:06, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-06T22:06:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-06T22:06:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T21:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T22:14:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-06T22:06:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ah yes, I see what you mean. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:14, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-06T22:14:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T22:14:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-03-06T22:06:00.000Z","replies":["c-Robevans123-2018-03-07T01:03:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T22:14:00.000Z"]}}-->

Template:infobox UK place has the option to add alt text, but the syntax is slightly different: use |static_image_alt=your alt text. Works just like the standard alt text for photos etc, but also displays the text when the cursor hovers over the image. I've added some alt text to the infobox at Blaenffos. Feel free to edit/improve. Robevans123 (talk) 01:03, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-07T01:03:00.000Z","author":"Robevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Robevans123-2018-03-07T01:03:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T22:14:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

If you actually dare search for it, I'm assuming that the YouTube upload of "Arnold Bax - November Woods (1917)" (20:36) published by Yusuf Yalçın on 25 Dec 2012 is probably quite likely to be a possible copyvio since it does not link to the BBC Philharmonic website and does not give a clear indication that the orchestra has given it's permission for that recording to be published? (Or is the estate of Arnold Bax, and/or his original publisher, involved in some way? I'm sorry if that question appears hopelessly naive). I expect there is a whole set of advice on music copyright rules somewhere at Wikipedia, isn't there Any advice welcome. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:58, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-06T21:58:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T21:58:00.000Z-Arnold_Bax","replies":["c-Robevans123-2018-03-12T19:45:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T21:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

Almost certainly a copyvio. To start off, Arnold Bax's work is still in copyright - he died in 1953 so his work is in copyright until 2023 (70 years from date of death), in the UK. The copyright is probably held by his estate (but if he had sold the rights of some or all of his work to others then the date of his work coming out of copyright would be unaffected - you'd just have to pay someone else to record or perform the work).

In addition, copyright also applies to sound recordings of performances (regardless of whether the recorded work is in or out of copyright), and this copyright usually lasts 70 years from date of publication, and is usually held by the record producer (in this case Chandos). Again, the holder of the copyright may possibly assign the copyright to others.

The performers of the work also have rights covering distribution and equitable remuneration etc, which is usually 70 years from when the recording was made.

In the case of the Chandos recording, a fee would have been paid to Bax's estate for permission to record and publish the work, and the performers would also be given a fee. Depending on the contracts, the fees may have be one-off payments or possibly a smaller recording fee with later payments based on number of sales.

So although the work was written in 1917, and the recording was made in 1982 and released in 1983, Bax's copyright lasts until 2023, the performers' rights last until 2052, and Chandos's copyright lasts until 2053. So, unless Yusuf has some sort of license agreement with Chandos then he is violating the rights/income of the composer, performers, and recording company. This seems unlikely as the work is released on a standard YouTube license...

Caveat Lector: much of this post is based on UK copyright law (which would certainly apply if someone based in the UK posted a recording by a UK composer/performers/record company, even if the server was elsewhere). Copyright in the US is different for sound recordings as these are often viewed as "work for hire" and attract even longer copyright periods.

The UK Intellectual Property Office posts a number of useful pages on copyright. I've used Copyright in sound recordings for this post. See also Copyright for a number of interesting pages on copyright issues. Hope this helps. Robevans123 (talk) 19:45, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-12T19:45:00.000Z","author":"Robevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Robevans123-2018-03-12T19:45:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-06T21:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-12T21:49:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-03-12T19:45:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you so much, Rob. That's wonderfully clear and informative. And the links will be very useful! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:49, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-12T21:49:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-12T21:49:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-03-12T19:45:00.000Z","replies":["c-EEng-2018-03-13T05:47:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-12T21:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

Easy as 123. EEng 05:47, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-13T05:47:00.000Z","author":"EEng","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-EEng-2018-03-13T05:47:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-12T21:49:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"E"}}-->

The tickling stick for humour beyond the call of duty

How tickled are we all to see humorous quick-fire japes from Martin. As Sir Ken put it, "Laughter is the greatest music in the world and audiences come to my shows to escape the cares of life. They don't want to be embarrassed or insulted. They want to laugh and so do I - which is probably why it works." Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:11, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-12T15:11:00.000Z","author":"Ritchie333","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ritchie333-2018-03-12T15:11:00.000Z-A_tickling_stick_for_you!","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-12T21:58:00.000Z-Ritchie333-2018-03-12T15:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

Is that all you've left me, Threesie?? "I wanted to take the dog to obedience class but it wouldn't go." Hondootedlay a comic icon, and a fine singer (Decca: 45-F 11355) in his day too (53 Singles and EPs at discogs.com) ... e.g. try The Key (Ebb, Magenta, Jacques Larue [fr]) on Columbia (1962). Martinevans123 (talk) 21:58, 12 March 2018 (UTC) "You think you can get away, but you can't. I'll follow you home and I'll shout jokes through your letterbox."[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-12T21:58:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-12T21:58:00.000Z-Ritchie333-2018-03-12T15:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I leave you Happy Easter with all the music we sang these days, four in a row ;) - I offered a hymn for Easter, but it wasn't fit between the April Fools, and - looking at today's Main page - I am happy about that. Will come tomorrow, - and we in Germany will still celebrate. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:53, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-01T20:53:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-01T20:53:00.000Z-A_tickling_stick_for_you!","replies":[]}}-->

Thank you, Gerda. And a Happy Easter to you, from St Bride's, Fleet Street! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:01, 1 April 2018 (UTC) [6][reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-01T21:01:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T21:01:00.000Z-A_tickling_stick_for_you!","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-03T14:05:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T21:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

Happy it was: I love this colourful world. Licensed. The composer was pleased ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:05, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-03T14:05:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-03T14:05:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T21:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-04T12:42:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-03T14:05:00.000Z"]}}-->

Two more videos - composer too dead to approve - if you look here for 1 April. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:42, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T12:42:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-04T12:42:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-03T14:05:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T12:57:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-04T12:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

Too dead to object also, I'm guessing. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:57, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T12:57:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T12:57:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-04T12:42:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

if they really wanted to stop the war in Syria they target Russia. The link is to an article by Jonathan Freedland, just to illustrate that their view of themselves is challenged, and isn't the reasonable, self evident assertion you claim it to be. To say they oppose all bombs is propaganda because they are selectively vocal, selectively silent. Come on Martin, you're not this stupid.78.144.80.249 (talk) 22:53, 26 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-26T22:53:00.000Z","author":"78.144.80.249","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-78.144.80.249-2018-03-26T22:53:00.000Z-Stopping_wars?","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T07:09:00.000Z-78.144.80.249-2018-03-26T22:53:00.000Z"]}}-->

You seem to be using an article by Jonathan Freedland in The Guardian to make a political point about the Stop the War Coalition. What's that got to do with Brian Eno? The article says "... established ... to campaign against what it believes are unjust wars." So maybe we should use that description? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:09, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-27T07:09:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T07:09:00.000Z-78.144.80.249-2018-03-26T22:53:00.000Z","replies":["c-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T18:21:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T07:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well that would be better than what the article said which was 'dedicated to preventing and ending wars' !!The only way it seems to dedicate itself to ending the Syrian civil war is to cheerlead for Putin/Assad and hope he massacres all the citizens who are against the regime, end it that way. Best would be to find some article where Eno himself explains what he thinks its role is. If he heads this outfit he most probably has expressed some sense of what he thinks he is doing it for. 78.144.82.58 (talk) 18:21, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-27T18:21:00.000Z","author":"78.144.82.58","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T18:21:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T07:09:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T18:37:00.000Z-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T18:21:00.000Z"]}}-->

The edit summary you left for your original deletion was this: "Its said nothing about Russian massacres in Syria , this is not a place to spout its fatuous assertions about itself." That looked to me a trifle political. I have no particular drum to bang, either for or against that organisation, but passing editors may wish to mote that this story is currently headlined on its front page. Any suggestions for article improvement are probably best placed at Talk:Brian Eno#, where I started a thread? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:37, 27 March 2018 (UTC) p.s. even though he's President, teh artcole for Stop the War Coalition doesn't actually mention Eno.[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-27T18:37:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T18:37:00.000Z-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T18:21:00.000Z","replies":["c-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T20:25:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T18:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

o.k. I note the headline is titled 'Russian hysteria , its aims...' This is itself explicitly aligning itself with the Russian regime view, invasion of Ukraine, targeting civilians and hospitals in Syria, blowing up MH17 with a BUK, poisoning dissidents with plutonium, murdering journalists? Bah, its all 'hysteria'. 78.144.82.58 (talk) 20:25, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-27T20:25:00.000Z","author":"78.144.82.58","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T20:25:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T18:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T20:31:00.000Z-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T20:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hmm. Thanks for (mis-)reading the first four words of the article title. Perhaps this explains why you have such a balanced view of things. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:31, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-27T20:31:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T20:31:00.000Z-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T20:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T20:38:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T20:31:00.000Z"]}}-->

Please parse the title for me correctly.78.144.82.58 (talk) 20:38, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-27T20:38:00.000Z","author":"78.144.82.58","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T20:38:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T20:31:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T20:40:00.000Z-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T20:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

If I get beyond the fifth word, I'll let you know. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:40, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-03-27T20:40:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-03-27T20:40:00.000Z-78.144.82.58-2018-03-27T20:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Remember my date: it was a peace day in 1945, pictured. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:25, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-12T21:25:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-12T21:25:00.000Z-Peace_Day","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-12T22:03:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-12T21:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

Oh yes. The only prize that's really worth cherishing and celebrating. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:03, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-12T22:03:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-12T22:03:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-12T21:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-14T12:01:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-12T22:03:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-14T21:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-12T22:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

Agree. Instead of going to the (crowded) funeral of the young man who maintained this website and suddenly died, I began about the choir. I know people from the group (with whom we often perform, so those concerts came to mind first + had sources), - they could barely rehearse Carmina burana the day he had told his wife he would go to rehearsal right after work - and didn't make it. RIP. They sang a Bach chorale first, and then turned to the other, - concert soon, such is LIFE. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:01, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-14T12:01:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-14T12:01:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-12T22:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Next funeral will be for Walter Fink, the one with compositions by 5 living composers for his 80th birthday, 3 of them present, that was on DYK on his birthday in 2010. Will look tomorrow if good enough for RD. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:22, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-14T21:22:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-14T21:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-12T22:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-14T21:32:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-14T21:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ah, that's very sad. But he had a good run. I see it's quite well-sourced with 14 references, but none in English (although that should not matter at all). Martinevans123 (talk) 21:32, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-14T21:32:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-14T21:32:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-14T21:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-14T21:52:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-14T21:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you. Last time I met him was for the Mozart Requiem, this one. The conductor is always good for something special, like that day a procession to music by Hildegard von Bingen, and a theatrical rendering of Remember not, Lord, our offences. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:52, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-14T21:52:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-14T21:52:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-14T21:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-14T22:17:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-14T21:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ah, yes "... a theatrical rendering of Remember not, Lord, our offences" otherwise known (at Wikipedia) as Jimbo's Little Black Block Book. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:17, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-14T22:17:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-14T22:17:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-14T21:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-15T11:25:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-14T22:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

Did you see who wrote the Purcell? Had many reasons to say so ;) - I translated it to German, and built Hear my prayer, O Lord (Purcell) (which also appeared in the same concert but without dramatic gestures) on the model. - I went over the Fink sources, none of the 2010 links worked, sigh, but I found a few others sources (and expect more tomorrow in printed media). Will nom for RD now, please watch. I tried to select 3 from the list of composers he invited, - impossible. Every single one is/was great. Ligeti and Henze didn't come in person, but the others did! Take me as an unreliable source for that ;) - I remember Dutilleax, 90+ already, and talking vividly - the day I seriously regretted that I never learned French beyond being able to read a menu. LouisAlain, do you hear me? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:25, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T11:25:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-15T11:25:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-14T22:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T11:33:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-15T11:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ha. Gerda, most of us never have the chance to meet the people who appear at WP:ITNRD, let alone sing for them.... or even order dishes for Wikipedia from a 90-year old French menu! We are often short of reliable sources when someone notable, but not so famous, dies, aren't we. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:33, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T11:33:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T11:33:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-15T11:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-15T11:55:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T11:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

Perhaps I should make a list of the people about whom I wrote while they were alive but ... - worse when I didn't notice soon enough and wrote only after they died, such as Manfred Jung. Sometimes I don't know, - some singers must be quite old if they - hopefully - still live, take Yvonne Ciannella, the first coloratura soprano for me, in a madness scene. - One ref for Fink (Hauff) had good quotes by him, but only in German. Perhaps we could have one in the article? The shortest - and my favourite - is: "Musik entspannt – es sei denn, man hört zu." ("Music is relaxing, unless you listen." - not sure about the translation) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:55, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T11:55:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-15T11:55:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T11:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T12:22:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-15T11:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

What a great quote. How very true. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:22, 15 April 2018 (UTC) Great video tribute to Freddie, amongst others, there, of course. Although, for strange some reason, Alecia Beth Moore reminds me of the next Mayor of London.[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T12:22:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T12:22:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-15T11:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-21T20:08:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T12:22:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-26T20:30:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T12:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

I put the quote in the article. Psalm 84 or lovely dwelling. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:08, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-21T20:08:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-21T20:08:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T12:22:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Just saw and heard this, with Nadine Secunde now as the mother-in-law, returning after years to where her international career took off. Will search for a ref, as I am not reliable ;) - The soprano looked more like her first image, not like the new one. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:30, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-26T20:30:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-26T20:30:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T12:22:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

RIP Wanda Wiłkomirska - practically no refs yet, all help welcome. The first violinist I heard on stage, playing the Wieniawsky. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:34, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-02T07:34:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-02T07:34:00.000Z-Peace_Day","replies":[]}}-->

That ITN (or not) was disappointing, but we'll get her to the Main page ;) - How lovely to read in other news "Polish Wikipedia's Arbitration Committee, he has heard, is more inclined toward forgiveness". Haven't heard the last word here for a while. Next singing Vierne. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:19, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-12T21:19:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-12T21:19:00.000Z-Peace_Day","replies":[]}}-->

Adding copyrighted YouTube links here, huh? Sounds like you have done a lot worse! talk to !dave 19:57, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-01T19:57:00.000Z","author":"My name is not dave","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-04-01T19:57:00.000Z-You_and_your_damn_ostriches...","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T20:28:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-04-01T19:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

You're not the first to rake this up after 4 years, you know. And to think they promised my a new start here on the Wiki project! And how do you think Bernie feels about it?? [7] Martinevans123 (talk) 20:28, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-01T20:28:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T20:28:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-04-01T19:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-04-01T20:34:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T20:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ah, right, yes, the real Bernie there! Nah, that one ain't got no chance in a presidential election. talk to !dave 20:34, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-01T20:34:00.000Z","author":"My name is not dave","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-04-01T20:34:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T20:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T20:39:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-04-01T20:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

That's the best coverage of a Presidential Election I've ever seen. Thank you so much. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:39, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-01T20:39:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T20:39:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-04-01T20:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-04-01T21:20:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T20:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

No worries. He votes for a third-party...weirdo! talk to !dave 21:20, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-01T21:20:00.000Z","author":"My name is not dave","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-04-01T21:20:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T20:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T21:31:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-04-01T21:20:00.000Z"]}}-->

Sheesh. I lasted one full minute on that one. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:31, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-01T21:31:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-01T21:31:00.000Z-My_name_is_not_dave-2018-04-01T21:20:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, I saw that you deleted the edits of the page "list of highest-attended concerts" by deleting Liam Payne's (110,000 people in the audience, 30 March, Dubai Global Village) statistics out of the list. Please fix it, the information was correct and cited correctly by multiple arabic sites. Syggan (talk) 13:28, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-02T13:28:00.000Z","author":"Syggan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Syggan-2018-04-02T13:28:00.000Z-Wrong_revert","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-02T14:45:00.000Z-Syggan-2018-04-02T13:28:00.000Z"]}}-->

When you say "please fix it", I'm not really sure what you have in mind. There seems to be a mini-edit war going on at that article currently, involving yourself and two Bharti Airtel IP accounts which geolocate to Madhya Pradesh in India? I wonder if you yourself have any knowledge of those? Yesterday I also opened a discussion thread at Talk:list of highest-attended concerts to which no-one else, including yourself, has yet contributed. I wonder would you care to add something there instead of edit warring? I've just had to clean up this last contribution to the article, which left in it a bit of a mess. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:45, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-02T14:45:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-02T14:45:00.000Z-Syggan-2018-04-02T13:28:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-02T15:33:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-02T14:45:00.000Z"]}}-->

And now, purely by conicidence, an IP editor, geolocating to "Santa Rosa, in the Philippines" also wants to have a go. How bizarre. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:33, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-02T15:33:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-02T15:33:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-02T14:45:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-02T15:50:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-02T15:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

And now, purely by conicidence, 29 minutes later, from Quebec in Canada: [8]. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:50, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-02T15:50:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-02T15:50:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-02T15:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I don't now what your difficulty is. Images of his grave, including one by me, have been added to the article repeatedly over the years. They are removed because they are derivate works of the artwork.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:37, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T07:37:00.000Z","author":"Wehwalt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T07:37:00.000Z-Nikita_Khrushchev","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T07:43:00.000Z-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T07:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

My difficulties are these: (1) your edit summary suggested that the image cannot be shown as "there is no freedom of panorama in Russia" - so the image of the destroyed khrushchyovka is also not permitted? (2) if the 8 images in "Category:Grave of Nikita Khrushchev" at Commons are also artworks in copyright, shouldn't they all be deleted? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:43, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T07:43:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T07:43:00.000Z-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T07:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T07:50:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T07:43:00.000Z"]}}-->

They probably need to be deleted, but I have enough on my hands without nomming them. As for freedom of panorama, it has no applicability to wrecked buildings. Although this article is almost a decade removed from FAC, I do try to keep up standards as best I can. I don't see an obvious fair use rationale either.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:50, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T07:50:00.000Z","author":"Wehwalt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T07:50:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T07:43:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T07:55:00.000Z-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T07:50:00.000Z"]}}-->

Fair enough. Maybe some kind of thread or warning notice at the Talk page might avoid future wasted effort? Or are you saying that any image of any grave marker at Wikipedia is a derivative artwork and so cannot be shown? And exactly why are "wrecked buildings" excluded? That seems very odd. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:55, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T07:55:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T07:55:00.000Z-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T07:50:00.000Z","replies":["c-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T08:03:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T07:55:00.000Z","c-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T08:07:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T07:55:00.000Z"]}}-->

I am sorry about that. I'm open to any reasonable solution. I'm not sure how effective a talk page notice would be as those who add images don't tend to go there. No, obviously most grave markers are not barred, but K's was custom designed for his grave by an artist in the mid 1970s and has not passed into the public domain.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:03, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T08:03:00.000Z","author":"Wehwalt","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T08:03:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T07:55:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

As fro the wrecked building, the lack of freedom of panorama can bar photos of buildings under the law in some countries. I see by our page on commons on this that there is freedom of panorama as to buildings in Russia, just artworks are not covered. My thought was a wrecked building would no longer be subject to restrictions since it is wrecked.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:07, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T08:07:00.000Z","author":"Wehwalt","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T08:07:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T07:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T08:58:00.000Z-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T08:07:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for the clarification. I guess it would depend on if it was wrecked in an artistic way. I must admit I thought that nearly all grave markers were "custom designed" for the deceased, although that person is usually called a "monumental stone mason" and not an "artist". The best solution would seem to get all 8 mages deleted at Commons. I'll ask about that, although I somehow doubt this applies only to Nikita Khrushchev. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:58, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T08:58:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T08:58:00.000Z-Wehwalt-2018-04-04T08:07:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T21:34:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T08:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

So I've posted a suggestion here. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:34, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T21:34:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T21:34:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T08:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T13:57:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T21:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

This conversation above gives me the creeps - my commons items of D havent been challenged since about 2009 :( [9] horrors JarrahTree 13:57, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-13T13:57:00.000Z","author":"JarrahTree","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T13:57:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T21:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T14:05:00.000Z-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T13:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

But then [10] shows that even finding a plot let alone an artistic rendering above it, can be somewhat problematic for some. JarrahTree 14:05, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-13T14:05:00.000Z","author":"JarrahTree","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T14:05:00.000Z-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T13:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-13T14:17:00.000Z-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T14:05:00.000Z"]}}-->

Haha, yes. I'm having regrets about nominating that image for deletion. In fact I'm now taking care to wear gloves whenever I leave the house. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:17, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-13T14:17:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-13T14:17:00.000Z-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T14:05:00.000Z","replies":["c-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T14:34:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-13T14:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

horrosho, pity this is goldfishbowl territory, otherwise have some marvelous funny anecdotes about nevsky prospect and d's gravesite - oh well, bck to the salt mine JarrahTree 14:34, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-13T14:34:00.000Z","author":"JarrahTree","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T14:34:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-13T14:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-13T14:40:00.000Z-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T14:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well, an interesting new delivery mechanism that's for sure, comrade. But, sheesh, these Wiki Talk page discussions - I often fell like I've completely lost the plot. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:40, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-13T14:40:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":12,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-13T14:40:00.000Z-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T14:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T14:44:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-13T14:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

salt mines suck, this definitely needs a jump in a grave that has been surrounded by permafrost to duck for cover from endless talk pages, with no quack test JarrahTree 14:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-13T14:44:00.000Z","author":"JarrahTree","type":"comment","level":13,"id":"c-JarrahTree-2018-04-13T14:44:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-13T14:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

@Wehwalt:, just to let you know, the Commons category:Grave of Nikita Khrushchev is now empty. So no possibility of further wasted effort. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:31, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-27T11:31:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-27T11:31:00.000Z-Nikita_Khrushchev","replies":["c-Wehwalt-2018-04-27T12:42:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-27T11:31:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thank you. It's a shame, but I'm just trying to follow policy as I understand it to be.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:42, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-27T12:42:00.000Z","author":"Wehwalt","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Wehwalt-2018-04-27T12:42:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-27T11:31:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-27T12:46:00.000Z-Wehwalt-2018-04-27T12:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

Likewise. And of course many of these images may be still freely available across the internet. I would imagine that no one ever asked the artist if he objected to a photograph of his work being published? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:46, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-27T12:46:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-27T12:46:00.000Z-Wehwalt-2018-04-27T12:42:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

A series of programme on BBC Radio 4 today, including a unique tribute program in which global figures celebrate the legacy of King by reading the words of "I have a Dream", introduced by Professor Clayborne Carson, editor of the Martin Luther King papers. A small but fitting tribute to Dr King, who had made perhaps one of the greatest and most inspiring speeches of all time. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:05, 4 April 2018 (UTC) [11][reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T19:05:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-04T19:05:00.000Z-I've_Been_To_The_Mountaintop","replies":[]}}-->

• Paul Simon - "So Beautiful Or So What"
• Public Enemy - "By the Time I Get to Arizona"
• Otis Spann: "Blues For Martin Luther King" (no copyright free video available, but you might just find one)
• Lambchop: “Sharing a Gibson With Martin Luther King, Jr." (no copyright free video available, but you might just find one)
• Bobby Womack “American Dream” (no copyright free video available, but you might just find one)
• Kris Kristofferson - "They Killed Him"
• Jerry Moore: “The Ballad of Birmingham” (no copyright free video available, but you might just find one) [12]

On 4 April 2018, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Ray Wilkins, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:51, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-04T21:51:00.000Z","author":"The Rambling Man","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_Rambling_Man-2018-04-04T21:51:00.000Z-ITN_recognition_for_Ray_Wilkins","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-05T12:07:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-04-04T21:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

Folks may wish to search a certain well-known social media video site for "Ray Wilkins Red Card: England V.S Morocco in Mexico WC1986" posted by "Hamza Erresmy" on "17 Apr 2014". I wouldn't directly dare link to that clip here, of course, in case I get "sent off". Martinevans123 (talk) 12:07, 5 April 2018 (UTC) ... or worse.[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-05T12:07:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-05T12:07:00.000Z-The_Rambling_Man-2018-04-04T21:51:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks for your help again, as with the Welsh. Best wishes, Brian Bmcln1 (talk) 19:06, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-06T19:06:00.000Z","author":"Bmcln1","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Bmcln1-2018-04-06T19:06:00.000Z-Newuck","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-06T19:33:00.000Z-Bmcln1-2018-04-06T19:06:00.000Z"]}}-->

Rhymes with schmuck, no? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:33, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-06T19:33:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-06T19:33:00.000Z-Bmcln1-2018-04-06T19:06:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bmcln1-2018-04-07T13:19:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-06T19:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

Perhaps the time has come to get protection for the page to save M from himself. How do we go about that? Bmcln1 (talk) 13:19, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-07T13:19:00.000Z","author":"Bmcln1","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bmcln1-2018-04-07T13:19:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-06T19:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-07T13:29:00.000Z-Bmcln1-2018-04-07T13:19:00.000Z"]}}-->

That's possible, but very unlikely - many would see his edits as in wholly good faith. And if they are that contentious it's a much larger problem, which might even warrant a question at WP:AN. If he does have a rhotic bee in his bonnet he's going to have plenty of scope for exercising it across literally thousands of articles that use a pronunciation guide. But I think he's given up on Newark-on-Trent for now. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:29, 7 April 2018 (UTC) p.s. this might have been a better source for local dialect? (... or else joost fooken google it, mush)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-07T13:29:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-07T13:29:00.000Z-Bmcln1-2018-04-07T13:19:00.000Z","replies":["c-Bmcln1-2018-04-07T13:36:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-07T13:29:00.000Z"]}}-->

Luv the slung! I didn't want to prolong the discussion even further, but what he's thinking of is the rhotitotetote in stressed syllables like CARdiff and PORlock, where North Americans and Scots can rhote to their heart's content. This is an unstressed syllable. Bmcln1 (talk) 13:36, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-07T13:36:00.000Z","author":"Bmcln1","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Bmcln1-2018-04-07T13:36:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-07T13:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-07T13:47:00.000Z-Bmcln1-2018-04-07T13:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

Wholly agree. He does seem to be getting a bit stressed out by it all, doesn't he. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:47, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-07T13:47:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-07T13:47:00.000Z-Bmcln1-2018-04-07T13:36:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

For Colin Grove recently. TBH I don't think he is all that convincing. Britney Spears is very good though.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 11:39, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-14T11:39:00.000Z","author":"Ianmacm","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ianmacm-2018-04-14T11:39:00.000Z-Business_must_be_a_bit_slow...","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-14T13:59:00.000Z-Ianmacm-2018-04-14T11:39:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u2666IanMacM\u2666"}}-->

But he does provide his own props, I hear. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:59, 14 April 2018 (UTC) ... yes, she drives me crazy[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-14T13:59:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-14T13:59:00.000Z-Ianmacm-2018-04-14T11:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Why I kept going around in circles trying to get off anglesey all those years ago - it is in wales. JarrahTree 00:02, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T00:02:00.000Z","author":"JarrahTree","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JarrahTree-2018-04-15T00:02:00.000Z-it_all_makes_sense_now","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T08:51:00.000Z-JarrahTree-2018-04-15T00:02:00.000Z"]}}-->

Haha. Yes, it's sometimes easy to get stuck in Wales. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:51, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T08:51:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T08:51:00.000Z-JarrahTree-2018-04-15T00:02:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Conservatism/Assessment/Margaret Thatcher. --Neve~selbert 00:53, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T00:53:00.000Z","author":"Neveselbert","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Neveselbert-2018-04-15T00:53:00.000Z-Discussion_at_Wikipedia:WikiProject_Conservatism\/Assessment\/Margaret_Thatcher","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T08:58:00.000Z-Neveselbert-2018-04-15T00:53:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Neve"}}-->

Thanks for the invite. Although, as you probably know, my recent interest was only sparked by that member of the Secret 1922 Committee who has an overly keen interest in footwear. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:58, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T08:58:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T08:58:00.000Z-Neveselbert-2018-04-15T00:53:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi. I'm wondering if you can spare me a few moments? I was scanning my watchlist and your edit comment caught my eye. "This article is written in British English, which commonly treats collective nouns as plural. DO NOT change "WERE" to "WAS"." What is the definition of a collective noun, and why is it plural? (I always thought a collection of coins or stamps or whatever was a single entity, and hence singular.) With thanks in advance, Pdfpdf (talk) 15:15, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T15:15:00.000Z","author":"Pdfpdf","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Pdfpdf-2018-04-15T15:15:00.000Z-Learn_something_new_every_day?","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T15:23:00.000Z-Pdfpdf-2018-04-15T15:15:00.000Z"]}}-->

I was just copying the existing hidden note from the article, into my edit summary, of course. Many of the articles for UK bands have that note or something very similar. And that's because band names are an exception in British English - normally, as you say, collective nouns are singular. There's a definition of "collective noun" here. Hope that helps. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:23, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T15:23:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T15:23:00.000Z-Pdfpdf-2018-04-15T15:15:00.000Z","replies":["c-Pdfpdf-2018-04-15T15:39:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T15:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

Very kind of you. Thanks, Pdfpdf (talk) 15:39, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T15:39:00.000Z","author":"Pdfpdf","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Pdfpdf-2018-04-15T15:39:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T15:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T16:33:00.000Z-Pdfpdf-2018-04-15T15:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

No worries. If you're really that interested, I guess you could even look it up in a encyclopedia? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:33, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-15T16:33:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-15T16:33:00.000Z-Pdfpdf-2018-04-15T15:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Per MOS:LEADPRON, we should not include pronunciations for place names whose pronunciations would be obvious to English speakers. Canter is a common word, and -bury is a common suffix in English place names.
--maczkopeti (talk) 14:49, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-16T14:49:00.000Z","author":"Maczkopeti","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Maczkopeti-2018-04-16T14:49:00.000Z-Canterbury","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-16T14:50:00.000Z-Maczkopeti-2018-04-16T14:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

I see. So -bury is always pronounced the same way in all English place names, is it? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:50, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-16T14:50:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-16T14:50:00.000Z-Maczkopeti-2018-04-16T14:49:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-04-16T14:55:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-16T14:50:00.000Z"]}}-->

I don't know what Ed would have to say about that. ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones ^{The Welsh Buzzard} ‑ ‑ 14:55, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-16T14:55:00.000Z","author":"Gareth Griffith-Jones","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-04-16T14:55:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-16T14:50:00.000Z","replies":["c-Maczkopeti-2018-04-16T15:04:00.000Z-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-04-16T14:55:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Gareth Griffith\u2011Jones"}}-->

There's a difference between bury as a word and as a suffix. Bury as a word is almost always /ˈbɛri/, while the suffix is usually reduced. An English speakers would know the difference, as both usages are common.
--maczkopeti (talk) 15:04, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-16T15:04:00.000Z","author":"Maczkopeti","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Maczkopeti-2018-04-16T15:04:00.000Z-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-04-16T14:55:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-16T15:16:00.000Z-Maczkopeti-2018-04-16T15:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hmm, "usually", is it? I see. Good job we cater only for fluent English speakers, then. You don't think there would be any point at all in asking a question about usefulness at Talk:Canterbury? Your pronunciation thinning crusade continues apace. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:16, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-16T15:16:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-16T15:16:00.000Z-Maczkopeti-2018-04-16T15:04:00.000Z","replies":["c-Maczkopeti-2018-04-16T15:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-16T15:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

MOS:LEADPRON says "Do not include [pronunciations] for common English words with pronunciations that might be counterintuitive for learners (laughter, sword)." Why would bury be different?
--maczkopeti (talk) 15:22, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-16T15:22:00.000Z","author":"Maczkopeti","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Maczkopeti-2018-04-16T15:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-16T15:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-16T15:28:00.000Z-Maczkopeti-2018-04-16T15:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

How common is "-bury" as a place name suffix? And in spoken English as a whole? By all means give a percentage of common usage. And what criterion does MOS:LEADPRON apply, exactly? Would you consider yourself a fluent English speaker very familiar with British place-names? Which variant of "Canterbury" do you see as "counter-intuitive"? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:28, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-16T15:28:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-16T15:28:00.000Z-Maczkopeti-2018-04-16T15:22:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi, thanks for your support in adding and reviewing the Southwest Airlines passenger to the 'List of Unusual Deaths' article. I'm only an occasional wikipedia user so I am a little bit nervous about major additions I add to articles - your support means a lot. Thank you :) ◄Sandshark23► talk♦contribs 13:27, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-21T13:27:00.000Z","author":"Sandshark23","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sandshark23-2018-04-21T13:27:00.000Z-A_brownie_for_you!","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-21T14:10:00.000Z-Sandshark23-2018-04-21T13:27:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u25c4"}}-->

I admire your courage. Most editors "wouldn't be seen dead" at that article. A brownie??! Couldn't you manage something with some sassy orange?? Let's hear it for Mark Landler. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:10, 21 April 2018 (UTC) see "Sassy Trump Listens To Multi-Part Question From Reporter" at the "the social media website that dares not speak its name". etc. [reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-21T14:10:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-21T14:10:00.000Z-Sandshark23-2018-04-21T13:27:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

You reverted a change I made on the page of Dali's painting John of the Cross. Previously it said "1550" (unsourced?), but I corrected that based on what I found at the Wikipedia page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_the_Cross, where it says: "At some point between 1574 and 1577, while praying in the Monastery of the Incarnation in Ávila in a loft overlooking the sanctuary, John had a vision of the crucified Christ, which led him to create his famous drawing of Christ "from above". " So I have a source for 1575. What source do you have for the 1550??? GeoRic (talk) 19:57, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-21T19:57:00.000Z","author":"GeoRic","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GeoRic-2018-04-21T19:57:00.000Z-John_of_the_Cross","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-21T20:06:00.000Z-GeoRic-2018-04-21T19:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks, GeoRic. You mean my revert here at Christ of Saint John of the Cross? I wounder could you explain to me what that source en.m.wikipedia.org is? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:06, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-21T20:06:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-21T20:06:00.000Z-GeoRic-2018-04-21T19:57:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Martin, would you please back off? I'm experience a lot of difficulty editing these days and if I say I can't get to something that you think needs to be done right. now. then there's a good reason for it. Those articles are almost a decade old, and I'll get around to the fixes if I'm convinced they're needed. I didn't think there was any reason to reply to the other editor's talk page posts yesterday, and now it's just a big clusterfuck that I. cannot. deal. with. Please back away. Victoriaearle (tk) 22:44, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-22T22:44:00.000Z","author":"Victoriaearle","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Victoriaearle-2018-04-22T22:44:00.000Z-Ernest_Hemingway","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-24T11:34:00.000Z-Victoriaearle-2018-04-22T22:44:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hi Victoria. I'm very sorry to hear you are experiencing any difficulty editing. I do hope you'll be able to resolve any issues you may have. It's often very easy to forget that other editors have real lives. If I've been in any way impolite or unfair I apologise unreservedly. Ernest Hemingway is a fine article that you should be proud to have help build. I'm sure any niggles recently identified there are no more than very minor stylistic ones that are really nothing to do with article content. I think I've said all that I can at the Talk page there and I won't contribute further if you don't think it's helping. Some editors seem to feel that discussions are a waste of time and all that matters are article edits. Kind regards. ~~

Use of the term "commit suicide" is obviously also a much wider issue than just applying to this one article. For example, there are at least four instances at Epidemiology of suicide which might have been expected to set the standard in some way? I'm really not sure why attention has recently been focused on the Hemingway article. Perhaps because, as a very well-known individual, his article gets lots of readers. Or perhaps because it's a Good Article and so can be expected to "lead the way" in terms of style. Whatever the reason, I'm sure this topic deserves scrutiny and discussion at a more centralized venue. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:34, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-24T11:34:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-24T11:34:00.000Z-Victoriaearle-2018-04-22T22:44:00.000Z","replies":["c-Victoriaearle-2018-04-24T23:40:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-24T11:34:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hi Martin, I'm not opposed to discussion or, to put it another way, putting on the kettle and settling in for a natter. But if the baby's fussing and granny wants her tea, the discussion turns to getting rid of slugs in the garden and whether we should follow the village ordinance or the county's, how quickly those slugs can be gone, while the baby's squalls reach a crescendo and granny is thumping the floor with her cane - well, nerves get frayed and it's not the best time. That's what happened. In terms of Hemingway's suicide - in a sense that suicide was similar to Robin Williams' for a more recent generation - and Hemingway's still garners a lot of attention. There are a few more articles to look through, but the ones written more recently were fine. The biography was written in 2009, before I was aware of this issue. Apologies for screaming, btw. Victoriaearle (tk) 23:40, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-24T23:40:00.000Z","author":"Victoriaearle","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Victoriaearle-2018-04-24T23:40:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-24T11:34:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-25T07:05:00.000Z-Victoriaearle-2018-04-24T23:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

Let's all make sure we're "at home" to mellow Marjorie Manners. But let's not even answer the door to rotten old Rosemary Rude. I do hope we can avoid all this dreadfully troubling beastliness. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:05, 25 April 2018 (UTC) p.s. 'ere, Vicky luv, sorry to 'ear about the wailing sprog. Maybe it's 'ungry? Or 'ave ya tried a shot of Calpol darlin'??[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-25T07:05:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-25T07:05:00.000Z-Victoriaearle-2018-04-24T23:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

	(What the ...) (What the f*** was that?)
	"You burden me with your questions You'd have me tell no lies You're always asking what it's all about But don't listen to my replies You say to me I don't talk enough But when I do I'm a fool These times I've spent, I've realized I'm going to shoot through..." And leave you. (Your purple prose just gives you away)

.... it's not every day one gets an email that ends "... that's your problem exactly, a waste of fucking space who only pokes but never actually does anything. Fuck you small man. Truly." ...(....please send answers on a postcard).

Hi there, you thanked me for my edits on British Airways Flight 5390 so I assumed you're sort of on my wavelength and it's OK to talk frankly here. You've been having fun and games on there with our pal EEng whoever the F*** he is! I know it's highly unethical to get personal, but WTF is his problem!? Has he nothing better to do with his time? I would very much like your opinion on his removing huge chunks of text inc. the late great In pop.culture section that I've so lovingly worked and reworked in many an aviation disaster article of late. Can he just do that? And why the F doesn't he go delete some other stuff from some other places, what's his evil fascination with our Captain Lancaster's horrendous ordeal, hasn't he had enough to contend with without having his bloody wiki article shredded to pieces. Oh and did you see the Talk page discussion I attempted to start with our friend? Nice to see that my being a relative newcomer to Wiki editing automatically makes my opinion count for less than his. The fact that I've been a professional copy editor for over 20 years (with little time to devote to Wikipedia previously) must count for naught then! I have learnt (the hard way) that you have to have a very thick skin to survive in this environment, but this joker's really something else. I could go on but I just had to vent a bit... Thanks for listening and thanks for thanking too! Rodney Baggins (talk) 22:33, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z","author":"Rodney Baggins","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z-Provoked","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-27T22:44:00.000Z-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T22:47:00.000Z-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T22:50:00.000Z-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z","c-EEng-2018-04-28T02:46:00.000Z-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z","c-Martinevans123-2018-04-28T08:00:00.000Z-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hi Rodney. Don't worry, we all face this kind of revolutionary zeal from EEng once he stumbles across an article that he finds "overburdened with detail" (whether we're newcomers or not). Please don't take it personally. As you will soon discover, what we do or have done in our real lives counts for very little at Wiki. Poor EEng has the misfortune to be an American, but he also has his cross to bear. He can be very witty when he's not on one of his article padding and cruft crusades. By the way, I've left a note at Talk:British Airways Flight 5390 about the DV windows. What do you think? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:44, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-27T22:44:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-27T22:44:00.000Z-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

(Watching, and then Martin was faster:) Thank you for adding detail, - sometimes that's not wanted. Wikipedia - like it or not - has a tendency to stay with a status quo, so don't change too much at a time, and if you are reverted (some will tell you to argue on the talk page and find consensus for your change, but I tell you) go somewhere else. Thousands of articles need improvements, or to be written first. Try that, - then you can create a status quo ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:47, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-27T22:47:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T22:47:00.000Z-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

ps: Martin, did you see that I put delicate and brutal as required on the Main page? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:50, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-27T22:50:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T22:50:00.000Z-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-27T22:53:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T22:50:00.000Z","c-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T23:08:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T22:50:00.000Z"]}}-->

Gerda is so right. Avoiding a confrontation is always much more useful - finding a quiet place to improve is usually very much more productive. When you come back to an embattled article, you often find that things have been restored and improved by others. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:53, 27 April 2018 (UTC) Well done with Milana Chernyavska, Gerda. Now I'll have to spend hours searching for her on YouTube! (that Grieg Sonata has suddenly caught my eye....)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-27T22:53:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-27T22:53:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T22:50:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T23:04:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-27T22:53:00.000Z"]}}-->

DYK that I made a suggestion in 2013 on a talk page that caused an uproar (and sadly made a user leave), and years later it was taken, without me doing a thing? - I didn't hear the pianist (yet), she was a red link on the violinist's article whom I heard ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:04, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-27T23:04:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T23:04:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-04-27T22:53:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-28T15:28:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T23:04:00.000Z"]}}-->

"Oh, no Mrs Fawlty, don't mention the box!!" ... "I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right." [13] Martinevans123 (talk) 15:28, 28 April 2018 (UTC) [reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-28T15:28:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-28T15:28:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T23:04:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Yes I know what you mean. I've been itching to get on with some of my other more mundane articles like the Winter Olympics, Oreo cookies, Birmingham, the National Ice Centre, but sometimes a bit of a confrontation can be so much more fun! As long as it doesn't get out of hand. It's all the more rewarding when you get to meet some nice people too. Anyway, g'night, too tired for any more logical thinking right now. Rodney Baggins (talk) 23:08, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-27T23:08:00.000Z","author":"Rodney Baggins","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T23:08:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-04-27T22:50:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

• As explained on the Talk page, I removed the inpopcult section because uncited material like that simply does not belong, per project guidelines; when you're new in a community it behooves you to give special attention to learning its rules and ways of doing things, and that's where your inexperience comes in. As for the rest, see WP:ASTONISHME and WP:RISOTTO. EEng 02:46, 28 April 2018 (UTC) P.S. It's OK to say fuck.[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-28T02:46:00.000Z","author":"EEng","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-EEng-2018-04-28T02:46:00.000Z-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"E"}}-->
• Here are some bee hooves for you to enjoy. Currently I'm struggling with my n-hooves. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:00, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-28T08:00:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-28T08:00:00.000Z-Rodney_Baggins-2018-04-27T22:33:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

You do know that 67 years is way pass the current standard retirement age for most folk here in the United Kingdom, don't you?! -- 87.102.116.36 (talk) 18:29, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-29T18:29:00.000Z","author":"87.102.116.36","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-87.102.116.36-2018-04-29T18:29:00.000Z-David_Nutt","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-04-29T18:42:00.000Z-87.102.116.36-2018-04-29T18:29:00.000Z"]}}-->

If Theresa May and her chums have their way, I guess we'll all be working until at least 80. But I don't think retirement age is legally enforced in every UK job or profession, is it? What about at Imperial College London? I guess they must have a policy written down somewhere? But perhaps we'd be better discussing this more centrally at Talk: David Nutt? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:42, 29 April 2018 (UTC) ... way pass!![reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-04-29T18:42:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-04-29T18:42:00.000Z-87.102.116.36-2018-04-29T18:29:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Yes, Alex was right to revert me, see User_talk:Alessandro57#re:_Fontina for context. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:21, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-01T04:21:00.000Z","author":"Piotrus","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Piotrus-2018-05-01T04:21:00.000Z-re:_Fontina","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T07:33:00.000Z-Piotrus-2018-05-01T04:21:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus"}}-->

I'm all for having the occasional hovercraft full of eels, but perhaps not in an encyclopedia. I applaud the inventiveness, but I was a bit confused. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:33, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-01T07:33:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T07:33:00.000Z-Piotrus-2018-05-01T04:21:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello Martinevans123. This is a heads up that a group from my history of psychology class will be adding to the Hermann Rorschach article. This is part of the APS Wikipedia Initiative, and is being supervised by me and consultants from the Wiki Education Foundation. The work on Rorschach has been vetted by user:Ian (Wiki Ed) before they've been allowed to make the changes. I am aware that you have reverted this article before, and I've warned them to be very careful and leave a message about what they are doing on the Talk page. Thanks for your consideration. J.R. Council (talk) 18:16, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-01T18:16:00.000Z","author":"James Council","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-James_Council-2018-05-01T18:16:00.000Z-Hermann_Rorschach","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T18:21:00.000Z-James_Council-2018-05-01T18:16:00.000Z"],"displayName":"J.R. Council"}}-->

Hi James. Yes, I think we had some minor issues last time. But that latest change looked really very promising. I don't want to step on Ian's toes, so I'll try not to rush in to change or revert. Many thanks for letting me know. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:21, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-01T18:21:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T18:21:00.000Z-James_Council-2018-05-01T18:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-Robevans123-2018-05-01T18:33:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T18:21:00.000Z"]}}-->

Lets hope the students don't blot their copybooks. Robevans123 (talk) 18:33, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-01T18:33:00.000Z","author":"Robevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Robevans123-2018-05-01T18:33:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T18:21:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T18:42:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-05-01T18:33:00.000Z"]}}-->

Eek!!. And to think I was deliberately holding back there. D'oh! you, dirty dog, Rob. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:42, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-01T18:42:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T18:42:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-05-01T18:33:00.000Z","replies":["c-Robevans123-2018-05-01T18:56:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T18:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

Less of the animal metaphors please. I'm more into sentence compl.... Robevans123 (talk) 18:56, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-01T18:56:00.000Z","author":"Robevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Robevans123-2018-05-01T18:56:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T18:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T19:07:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-05-01T18:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

Great to see you stepping out, Rob, in your Sunday best! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:07, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-01T19:07:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T19:07:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-05-01T18:56:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Thanks again! I know that the students will appreciate it, if you do see something wrong, to help them see the error of their ways and correct it. J.R. Council (talk) 21:48, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-01T21:48:00.000Z","author":"James Council","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-James_Council-2018-05-01T21:48:00.000Z-Hermann_Rorschach","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T21:56:00.000Z-James_Council-2018-05-01T21:48:00.000Z"],"displayName":"J.R. Council"}}-->

The error of their ways?? Oh, no!.... sad face. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:56, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-01T21:56:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T21:56:00.000Z-James_Council-2018-05-01T21:48:00.000Z","replies":["c-Robevans123-2018-05-01T22:37:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T21:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

Testing Times for Martin's Magic Eraser. Robevans123 (talk) 22:37, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-01T22:37:00.000Z","author":"Robevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Robevans123-2018-05-01T22:37:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-01T21:56:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Could the script case have a connection to the new EU budget? I mean, - after the Brexit, our (EU) balance will be negative (the hesst - Budget Difficit). We (my EU) need investors from England (against Novitshok - acceptance and an investors - visa (permanent residence permit for the EU).

Weill, usually. The EU has been and still is working with another kind of venom poison (methyl mercury) (the judiciary, the police, the social services, the citizens' initiatives, the drug dealers, etc.).

WikiVorspraecher (talk) 16:51, 4 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-04T16:51:00.000Z","author":"WikiVorspraecher","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-WikiVorspraecher-2018-05-04T16:51:00.000Z-Could_we_please_stop_using_this_Talk_page_to_swap_FSB_and_GRU_coded_messages?_Th","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-04T17:40:00.000Z-WikiVorspraecher-2018-05-04T16:51:00.000Z"]}}-->

Many thanks for the hot tip. I'll try and stock up. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:40, 4 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-04T17:40:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-04T17:40:00.000Z-WikiVorspraecher-2018-05-04T16:51:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi,

Yes, as the 18th reference says she used her married name for the first time on that occasion. I tried to add it myself, but I'm not a frequent user of the english wikipedia so I didn't know how to do it.

--Qwerty1999 (talk) 16:01, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-06T16:01:00.000Z","author":"Qwerty1999","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Qwerty1999-2018-05-06T16:01:00.000Z-Zara_Tindall","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-06T16:03:00.000Z-Qwerty1999-2018-05-06T16:01:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ok, I'll take a look. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:03, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-06T16:03:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-06T16:03:00.000Z-Qwerty1999-2018-05-06T16:01:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-06T16:06:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-06T16:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ok, so I just took a look and it's not good news. The source at Ref 18 is this one from the Daily Mail. But that newspaper is no longer used, as per WP:DAILYMAIL, so alas it will have to be removed. So we now need two sources. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:06, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-06T16:06:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-06T16:06:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-06T16:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I am most definitely a new user. If you want to see my statement on this you can read it on my user page. Please do not spread vindictive rumours about me and drag me into issues that don't involve me. I've only had an account for 11 days but I've been made to feel so unwelcome on here for daring to have an opinion that I'm tempted to delete my account and return to being a read-only user. goodforaweekend (talk) 20:47, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-10T20:47:00.000Z","author":"Goodforaweekend","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-10T20:47:00.000Z-New_User","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T20:49:00.000Z-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-10T20:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

Very sorry if you found my subjective opinion unpalatable. I said that you "looked so very well-informed and skilful for an editor with such a new account?" And I said it was "Almost as if [Cassianto was] being baited there." By all means take the first bit as a compliment. And could you kindly excuse the last bit as an over-generalisation of what seems to have happened to User:Cassianto over the past year? Why did you wait for so long to tell me? It's a bit late to adjust my comment now that it has been archived. What would you like me to do? I really don't think that one comment in defence of that user counts as "spreading vindictive rumours", do you? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:49, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-10T20:49:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T20:49:00.000Z-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-10T20:47:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T21:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T20:49:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-10T21:31:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T20:49:00.000Z"]}}-->

I still remain truely amazed that the first edit that a previosuly "read-only" new editor would make, before even creating their own Userpage, is this one. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:22, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-10T21:22:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T21:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T20:49:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T21:29:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T21:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

So, what would you like me to do? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:29, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-10T21:29:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T21:29:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T21:22:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

(ec) "Every editor is a human being" ;) - shamelessly canvassing: Tobias Kratzer who couldn't decide which staging of Rigoletto he preferred to present at an international competition, so took two, one as an American woman, the other as a Bulgarian man. DYK? I saw his Vasco da Gama on a space voyage - remarkable! - Welcome, goodforaweekend, nice to meet you! There are many good things to do that won't bring you in heated zones! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:31, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-10T21:31:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-10T21:31:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T20:49:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T21:43:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-10T21:31:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, I myself try to stay away from heated zones. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:43, 10 May 2018 (UTC) p.s. ... that space thing will never work.[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-10T21:43:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T21:43:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-10T21:31:00.000Z","replies":["c-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-23T00:46:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T21:43:00.000Z"]}}-->

The reason I waited so long to tell you is because Wikipedia doesn't keep you logged in and since I am currently studying for finals I don't make the effort to log onto here very often. I don't want you to do anything, but all I've had since I created an account is people accusing me of being a fake account that was set up by an already established user in order to push an agenda/bait some random person. I've already explained that I created an account specifically to make that post as I found it very strange that the page did not have an infobox, had I known it would've blown up in my face like that I wouldn't have bothered. I have no idea who User:Cassianto is or what, if anything, has happened to them over the past year. As I created the account specifically for that reason, this is why it was the very first thing I did. I didn't even know what a userpage was until I'd made the post and started to explore the user side of Wikipedia a bit more. I suppose the silver lining to this whole thing is that if I do decide to keep this account, I now know which editors to avoid. goodforaweekend (talk) 00:46, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-23T00:46:00.000Z","author":"Goodforaweekend","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-23T00:46:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-10T21:43:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T11:11:00.000Z-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-23T00:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for explaining. I certainly don't envy any hapless new user who suddenly finds themselves in the minefield that infobox debate has become. Again, I have no accusations to level about you or your motivations. I was merely trying to point out how your very first edit might be viewed by someone who has seemingly become trapped in this problem space and who is no stranger to baiting and provocation. Of course I hope you will stay and find an area in which to participate that is far removed from confrontation and accusation (there must be a few left somewhere amongst over 5 million articles, surely?) Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:11, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-23T11:11:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T11:11:00.000Z-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-23T00:46:00.000Z","replies":["c-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-23T19:41:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T11:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ok well I think it's best now if we all just move on, I don't have any desire to reenter the infobox debate. Maybe in the future yourself (and other users as you are by no means the only one who did it) could try engaging with a user before throwing out accusations. I'm not a horrible person, I would have been happy to explain things and maybe, in turn, someone could have explained to me that it was a very contentious issue and that User:Cassianto had been having problems with other users. This whole thing could've been avoided if people had just communicated with each other instead of getting emotional. goodforaweekend (talk) 19:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-23T19:41:00.000Z","author":"Goodforaweekend","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-23T19:41:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T11:11:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T19:58:00.000Z-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-23T19:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm very sorry that you think I just "threw out an accusation". I was trying to explain why someone who was appealing a Arbitration enforcement action might have reacted in the way they did. I've certainly never suggested that you are "a horrible person". I said your edits "looked so very well-informed and skilful" and I don't think I'll withdraw that subjective view. You had two days to explain (and make me look quite foolish), at that "Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Cassianto", where you must have seen my comment? It was wholly your choice not to do so seemed to me at the time that you had deliberately chosen not to. If you do decide to keep this account, feel free to avoid me. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:58, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-23T19:58:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T19:58:00.000Z-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-23T19:41:00.000Z","replies":["c-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-26T14:03:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T19:58:00.000Z"]}}-->

I told you I don't log onto here very often. By the time I did I'm pretty sure the appeal had already closed, besides I had no idea what the appeal was about and had no desire to get involved. So no, it was not "wholly my choice". goodforaweekend (talk) 14:03, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-26T14:03:00.000Z","author":"Goodforaweekend","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-26T14:03:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T19:58:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-26T18:01:00.000Z-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-26T14:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, you told me. Thanks for telling me. Thanks for telling me again. I have adjusted my comment above to fit better what you have now told me. Aagin. Is that acceptable to you, or would you like me to adjust it further? You are wise not to get involved. But now that the editor concerned has retired, it seems unlikely you'll have to be in that position again. Would you like me to post a large apology here so that everyone can see you are the wronged party and that I am very sorry to have caused you so much upset and annoyance? Or would you prefer me to come over to your talk page and post a large apology there instead?? I'm really not quite sure what else I could do to help you get over the trauma that all these "vindictive rumours" have caused you. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:01, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-26T18:01:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-26T18:01:00.000Z-Goodforaweekend-2018-05-26T14:03:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Martin Thanks for your edits on the Boulez page. I don't want to just undo your change re photo credits without explanation - but it was a condition of the Cleveland Orchestra giving permission to use the photo that we credit the photographer. I think we'll either have to reinstate or lose the photo, which would be a shame... Best David

Hi David. My understanding (through painful experience) is that permission to use images may not be given dependent on acknowledgement in article space, but rather only (as normal) at the image upload page. If you can direct me to any policy which shows something different, I'd be very grateful. That said, I have no real problem with with those credits, so feel free to restore them. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:46, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-12T11:46:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-12T11:46:00.000Z-Boulez_GA_review","replies":["c-EEng-2018-05-12T13:13:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-12T11:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

The licenses explicitly call out (don't make me find it, please) that acknowledgement via a link is sufficient. Those donating images can't expect an in-caption credit any more than those contributing text can expect to see themselves credited directly in articles. EEng 13:13, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-12T13:13:00.000Z","author":"EEng","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-EEng-2018-05-12T13:13:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-12T11:46:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-12T13:47:00.000Z-EEng-2018-05-12T13:13:00.000Z"],"displayName":"E"}}-->

Ooh, what a surprise. So how's Japan? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:47, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-12T13:47:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-12T13:47:00.000Z-EEng-2018-05-12T13:13:00.000Z","replies":["c-EEng-2018-05-14T06:16:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-12T13:47:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-13T21:25:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-12T13:47:00.000Z"]}}-->

Immaculate. EEng 06:16, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T06:16:00.000Z","author":"EEng","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-EEng-2018-05-14T06:16:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-12T13:47:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T07:31:00.000Z-EEng-2018-05-14T06:16:00.000Z"],"displayName":"E"}}-->

Please give my regards to Jim Morrison. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:31, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T07:31:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T07:31:00.000Z-EEng-2018-05-14T06:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I just nominated him for DYK. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:25, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-13T21:25:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-13T21:25:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-12T13:47:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:43:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-13T21:25:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well done, Gerda. You must mean the real Pierre, not our friend "Lunchtime O'Boulez". Martinevans123 (talk) 21:43, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-13T21:43:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:43:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-13T21:25:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-14T07:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:43:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, the real one whom I had the honour to meet, however briefly (concert is mentioned here). Sorry for the emotions I caused when I tried to improve his article. Made me loose all interest in repeating. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:22, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T07:22:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-14T07:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:43:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Martinevans. On Stanley Cavell's page, you asked whether to include the philosopher's birthname. In one of his two autobiographical works (A Pitch of Philosophy and Little Did I Know, I don't remember which) he relates that the name "Goldstein" was assigned to his father at Ellis Island by a callous bureaucrat. I don't know if there's any standing criterion, but I would err on the side of omission: it was not his father's birthname. Also, you can ask him. He sometimes responds to emails. :P Anarchic Fox (talk) 20:09, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-13T20:09:00.000Z","author":"Anarchic Fox","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-13T20:09:00.000Z-Stanley_Cavell","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T20:18:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-13T20:09:00.000Z"]}}-->

May thanks for reminding me and for the clarification. I would certainly not want trouble him. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:18, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-13T20:18:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T20:18:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-13T20:09:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Um, so is it alright if I remove the birthname? :P Anarchic Fox (talk) 02:52, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T02:52:00.000Z","author":"Anarchic Fox","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T02:52:00.000Z-Stanley_Cavell","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T07:26:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T02:52:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'd strongly advise you to ask at the article Talk page. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:26, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T07:26:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T07:26:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T02:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Okay, will do. I thought you were the one who added it, thus my presence here. Anarchic Fox (talk) 15:38, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T15:38:00.000Z","author":"Anarchic Fox","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T15:38:00.000Z-Stanley_Cavell","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T17:49:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T15:38:00.000Z","c-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T18:54:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T15:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, of course, with this edit. Most BIO articles have the same thing in the infobox as in the text. Indeed, the infobox is meant to summarise main facts from the article and have nothing unique, I think. That's why I added it. If you feel there is a good case for casting doubt on that name as a birth name, I think this should be made clear in the text. You seem to know far more about Cavell than do I. I have no very strong view either way about including any name. But I think a discussion at the Talk page is probably the best way ahead. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:49, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T17:49:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T17:49:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T15:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

The box is exactly where that information belongs, not in the body. At least until the biography rises above "C" class. I've seen enough behind the scenes to know that minor rules about inclusion are rarely followed on neglected pages. Anarchic Fox (talk) 18:54, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T18:54:00.000Z","author":"Anarchic Fox","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T18:54:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T15:38:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T18:56:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T18:54:00.000Z"]}}-->

You think it's ok to have unique info in the box? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:56, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T18:56:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T18:56:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T18:54:00.000Z","replies":["c-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T19:08:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T18:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well, yeah. I'm hard pressed to come up with an argument otherwise, except for the highest-class biographies. The boxes tend to be filled out most reliably. With such a uniqueness rule, you would be forced to generate boilerplate pages for start-class ones. Then the evil wikignomes (hat tip to a once friend) would appear some day when noone is looking and delete the page for notability, as evidenced by the boilerplate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anarchic Fox (talk • contribs) 19:08, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T19:08:00.000Z","author":"Anarchic Fox","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T19:08:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T18:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T19:14:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T19:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

I was just assuming it was a matter of consistency. Most bio articles have birthnam (with an added explanation if necessary, perhaps in a footnote) elsewhere in the article. That's all. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:14, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T19:14:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T19:14:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T19:08:00.000Z","replies":["c-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T20:27:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T19:14:00.000Z"]}}-->

Okay. Best wishes on your editing. :) Anarchic Fox (talk) 20:27, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T20:27:00.000Z","author":"Anarchic Fox","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T20:27:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T19:14:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T20:32:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T20:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks, Anarchic Fox. It's great to see you improving Stanley Cavell so rapidly. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:32, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-14T20:32:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-14T20:32:00.000Z-Anarchic_Fox-2018-05-14T20:27:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Martinevans123, do you agree with another editor's observation that this image - after 5 years of usage/display upon the Wikipedia Dennis Nilsen article, now fails NFCC8?--Kieronoldham (talk) 20:50, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-13T20:50:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T20:50:00.000Z-NFCC8","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T20:57:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T20:50:00.000Z"]}}-->

I must admit I was a bit surprised when I saw that. Shame it's rather low quality. Don't criteria change after the subject's death? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:57, 13 May 2018 (UTC) .. no need to ping... I do read my Talk page, honest. [reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-13T20:57:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T20:57:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T20:50:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T21:16:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T20:57:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks, Martin. I haven't checked whether criteria change after the subject's death, but it certainly makes finding an alternative free usage image more difficult to find. I agree that (actually like the newspaper in question generally), the image is of a lower quality than the original, but that was done to increase the fair usage rationale. This alongside the text relating to the image, which 'broke' the story to the British public for the 1st time. The image was actually flagged as failing NFCC8 a few days before Nilsen's death by a certain user.--Kieronoldham (talk) 21:16, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-13T21:16:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T21:16:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T20:57:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:18:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T21:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

A "certain user." That sounds a bit suspicious. I'd say it was a key image for that article. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:18, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-13T21:18:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:18:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T21:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T21:32:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:18:00.000Z"]}}-->

I don't mean it in that regards, not much, it's just someone who removed it but with just a blunt message for doing so. I know they're more than a century old and in the Commons, but I don't see the newspaper etc. images removed from the Jack the Ripper article. I'll reinsert it if you like, but please can you and EEng keep an eye on the article and that image. Thanks.--Kieronoldham (talk) 21:32, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-13T21:32:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T21:32:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:18:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:46:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T21:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'll certainly try to, yes. I'm sure we'd all agree that Nilsen was a lot more "real" than Jack. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:46, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-13T21:46:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:46:00.000Z-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T21:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T21:58:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:46:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks. Someone may probably try and steamroll the press over the next few days..--Kieronoldham (talk) 21:58, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-13T21:58:00.000Z","author":"Kieronoldham","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Kieronoldham-2018-05-13T21:58:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-13T21:46:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, Martinevans123. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template. NickMcGowan (talk) 10:38, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-17T10:38:00.000Z","author":"NickMcGowan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-NickMcGowan-2018-05-17T10:38:00.000Z-You've_got_mail","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-17T12:22:00.000Z-NickMcGowan-2018-05-17T10:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

Hi Nick. I have read your email and will respond in due course. I hadn't realized that changing a title to italic font might attract so much attention! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:22, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-17T12:22:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-17T12:22:00.000Z-NickMcGowan-2018-05-17T10:38:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-18T21:24:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-17T12:22:00.000Z"]}}-->

I have replied in kind. Please feel free to let me know how you get on. It must be interesting to be just a spectator here? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:24, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-18T21:24:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-18T21:24:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-17T12:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T23:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-18T21:24:00.000Z"]}}-->

Thanks for replying, Nick. Looking forward to all the scoops. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:22, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-19T23:22:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T23:22:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-18T21:24:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

You do to copy right any thing you find on a website! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Knowledge of fact (talk • contribs) 22:36, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-18T22:36:00.000Z","author":"Knowledge of fact","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Knowledge_of_fact-2018-05-18T22:36:00.000Z-Talk:Owl","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T16:16:00.000Z-Knowledge_of_fact-2018-05-18T22:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

Not sure I understand you, sorry. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:16, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-19T16:16:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T16:16:00.000Z-Knowledge_of_fact-2018-05-18T22:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-19T23:30:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T16:16:00.000Z","c-Robevans123-2018-05-19T23:36:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T16:16:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-20T15:44:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T16:16:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-20T22:17:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T16:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

this owl? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:30, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-19T23:30:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-19T23:30:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T16:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T23:33:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-19T23:30:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ooh, thanks for that, Gerda. I had no idea. R.O. de Vries How lovely. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:33, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-19T23:33:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T23:33:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-19T23:30:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

It looks as though everything they added at Talk:Owl (and also at Talk:Polar Bear) is copy/pasted from websites. The pattern of adding it under a edit protect request seems to have been used in the past by KrisT2007, and also by an IP address... Robevans123 (talk) 23:36, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-19T23:36:00.000Z","author":"Robevans123","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Robevans123-2018-05-19T23:36:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T16:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T23:42:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-05-19T23:36:00.000Z"]}}-->

"Ooo, see you Jimmy!" .... see you over at WP:CopyVio Police. But yes, I was beginning to think I had been drawn into some kind of Ancient Welsh epic. -- Mabinogio 123 (talk) 23:42, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-19T23:42:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T23:42:00.000Z-Robevans123-2018-05-19T23:36:00.000Z","replies":["c-Robevans123-2018-05-20T00:07:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T23:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

A strange hinterland of potterish animal magic. Now, where did I leave my zoo keeper's hat? Robevans123 (talk) 00:07, 20 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-20T00:07:00.000Z","author":"Robevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Robevans123-2018-05-20T00:07:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T23:42:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

More music on my talk, today mostly the solemn mass. Funny that another Rutter received thousands of views just because it was sung for the Royal wedding ;) - I wrote the article in memory of a friend who seemed to disappear, - but looks in every now and then. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:44, 20 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-20T15:44:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-20T15:44:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T16:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Could link to the mass in Llandaff Cathedral ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:17, 20 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-20T22:17:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-20T22:17:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-19T16:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-20T22:19:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-20T22:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

Really? Which one? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:19, 20 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-20T22:19:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-20T22:19:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-20T22:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-20T22:46:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-20T22:19:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:17:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-20T22:19:00.000Z"]}}-->

still the same, "it was brought to a playable stage by Easter 2010 with its inaugural performance (the Gloria of Louis Vierne's Messe solennelle) at the Easter Vigil service on 3 April 2010." --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:46, 20 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-20T22:46:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-20T22:46:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-20T22:19:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

new: the sp'rit of truth --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:17, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-21T22:17:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:17:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-20T22:19:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:23:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:17:00.000Z"]}}-->

Nice work Gerda. And there's me thinking it was Ardbeg. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:23, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-21T22:23:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:23:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:17:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:42:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:23:00.000Z"]}}-->

When we sang it, I explained that it was something energizing. We received instructions from the Director of Church Music at Salisbury Cathedral, whose first comment (after praise) was the question: What is the most important word in the first line? Yes, Love, so sing towards it, - don't rest on "If". He also encouraged a more moving tempo. Singing in that place was among my unforgettable moments. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:42, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-21T22:42:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:42:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:23:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:45:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well I do hope you took a pack of wetwipes with you. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:45, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-21T22:45:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:45:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:47:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:45:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:45:00.000Z","c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-12T19:43:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:45:00.000Z"]}}-->

talking 2006 --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:47, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-21T22:47:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:47:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

ps: we sang it again - on my request - on one of my birthdays, in a service which also featured the premiere of a piece nicknamed "Gerda's Halleluja" ;) - the official name is "Halleluja St. Martin". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:49, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-21T22:49:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-21T22:49:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

... and again today, with a round of friends, love-ly. I decorated my talk for the occasion. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:43, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-06-12T19:43:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-12T19:43:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T22:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Another RD: Dieter Schnebel, - yes, I remember that I wanted to avoid the place. - Good singer on the Main page, seen in the role, which made me write the article. Saw Maria Bengtsson (soprano) yesterday, as Arabella, phenomenally sweet, clear and vulnerable at the same time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:48, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-23T12:48:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-23T12:48:00.000Z-Talk:Owl","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T12:53:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-23T12:48:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, I saw him there, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:53, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-23T12:53:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T12:53:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-05-23T12:48:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Will that never end? Barry McDaniel, on RD, help welcome. I spent the day throughing out lovely details for which I couldn't find a source, - awful job. - Good news: I nominated the lead DYK (Pierre Boulez, another - like Arvo Pärt - whose hand I had the honour to shake), and wrote the German lead SG (Schon gewusst?), de:Messe solennelle (Vierne) which we sang for Pentecost. Two pics the same day is a first in my career ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:16, 22 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-06-22T15:16:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-22T15:16:00.000Z-Talk:Owl","replies":[]}}-->

Posted. See my talk for a bird's eye's view for where used to live for a short time, inspired a march song. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:56, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-06-23T06:56:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-23T06:56:00.000Z-Talk:Owl","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T07:03:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-23T06:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

May thanks, Gerda. Barry McDaniel looks in pretty good shape. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:03, 23 June 2018 (UTC) p.s. I think you meant throwing.[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-06-23T07:03:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T07:03:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-23T06:56:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-23T13:54:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T07:03:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, forgive my spelling ;) - We sang the piece mentioned in the hook, for celebrating mere 54 years, not 1000 of a church (yes the one with your name), it was fitting, but the minister said "bombastisch" ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:54, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-06-23T13:54:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-23T13:54:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T07:03:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T18:42:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-23T13:54:00.000Z"]}}-->

Ah yes, I know what he means. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:42, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-06-23T18:42:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T18:42:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-23T13:54:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T19:59:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T18:42:00.000Z"]}}-->

.... "Stone the crows"!!! A German national hero!! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:59, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-06-23T19:59:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T19:59:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T18:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-23T20:27:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T19:59:00.000Z"]}}-->

Toni, please, yes, he won favours ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:27, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-06-23T20:27:00.000Z","author":"Gerda Arendt","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Gerda_Arendt-2018-06-23T20:27:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-06-23T19:59:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

What jaw-dropping Royal Weddings should be all about, I feel. What's next, the Michael and Justin Show ?? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:38, 20 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-20T15:38:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-20T15:38:00.000Z-Thank_you_Bishop_Michael","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T10:05:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-20T15:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

All too easy to imagine the later scenes at Frogmore House, with Charles vigorously Dad-dancing to "Get Down" by Gilbert O'Sullivan and "Macarena" by Los del Río, and Camilla belting out her famous karaoke version of "Dancing Queen" by ABBA. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:05, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-21T10:05:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-21T10:05:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-20T15:38:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

ii I'm bringing this here rather than polluting his talk page as the subject does not concern him really but new pages patrolling. I wish you would avoid taking words out of context and putting a spin on them that I had no intention of giving and did not suggest in my comments. I don't know if you really didn't understand what I was saying or whether you were being disingenuous for some reason or another but I'd rather clear things up. New pages patrolling is not an easy task because you have to sort through the crud of undisclosed paid editing, fan pages, hoaxes, newcomer's efforts, lazy editors work and so on.

When you come across an article such as Véronique Bracco for which there is one source [15] that doesn't even mention the subject normally you tag it and move on. As this is a French pianist/composer that also has a page on FRWP and I am a French speaker I had a quick look at it. The page has been tagged as not having the necessary sources since November 2017. Both versions (English and French) contain unsourced claims that I took the time to tag for clean up. This is the kind of work that should not be left on wikipedia in its present state. IMHO an editor that has nearly 100k edits should not be creating pages like this. This article was translated almost word for word with almost no changes and no search for sources at all. His reply the very fact that this pianist is refered to through the Authority control model means that she enjoys some notability is not enough I am afraid. I don't know if you had a look at the authority control Worldcat but her sheet music is held only in the BNF whose role is as "the national repository of all that is published in France" (my bolding).

Also if you understand French have a look at the subject's own comments on the French version's talk page here, in this extract she says "En tout cas, merci svp de ne surtout pas supprimer cette page wikipedia sur moi. Elle est très importante pour mon travail, pour mes concerts, mes projets musicaux et ma présence en ligne." a quick translation reads "Anyway please whatever you do, do not delete this Wikipedia page about me. It is very important for my work, my concerts, my musical projects and my online presence". The links she provides are a mixture of social media, passing mentions and links to recordings that were self-published, by a publishing house that only publishes works by one artist and those accompagning her and is run by a member of this artist's family apparantly.

Anyway it is not up to the new pages reviewers to clean up after editors that one could be forgiven in thinking seem to prefer quantity to quality. As a pending changes reviewer would you accept unsourced information in a BLP? I doubt it and at new pages patrol we have instructions to tag this kind of thing or nominate for deletion. I hope this clears up some of your concerns. Dom from Paris (talk) 17:22, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T17:22:00.000Z","author":"Domdeparis","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T17:22:00.000Z-Conversation_from_LouisAlain's_talk_page","replies":["c-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-05-22T17:40:00.000Z-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T17:22:00.000Z","c-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T18:31:00.000Z-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T17:22:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Dom from Paris"}}-->

(talk page stalker) So you would rather go about "polluting this talk page", would you?! ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones ^{The Welsh Buzzard} ‑ ‑ 17:40, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T17:40:00.000Z","author":"Gareth Griffith-Jones","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-05-22T17:40:00.000Z-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T17:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T17:43:00.000Z-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-05-22T17:40:00.000Z","c-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-05-22T17:45:00.000Z-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-05-22T17:40:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Gareth Griffith\u2011Jones"}}-->

Did you bother reading the page I was talking about and the request from another editor to carry this on elsewhere or are you just being flippant? Dom from Paris (talk) 17:43, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T17:43:00.000Z","author":"Domdeparis","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T17:43:00.000Z-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-05-22T17:40:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Dom from Paris"}}-->

(talk page stalker) Ouch! ‑ ‑ Gareth Griffith‑Jones ^{The Welsh Buzzard} ‑ ‑ 17:45, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T17:45:00.000Z","author":"Gareth Griffith-Jones","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-05-22T17:45:00.000Z-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-05-22T17:40:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T18:23:00.000Z-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-05-22T17:45:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Gareth Griffith\u2011Jones"}}-->

I'm sure I could think up some equally derogatory alternative options if you wanted, Gareth. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:23, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T18:23:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T18:23:00.000Z-Gareth_Griffith-Jones-2018-05-22T17:45:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Dom from Paris, I have not questioned the value of "your work as a new pages reviewer". What I was questioning was the way you have "dealt with" LouisAlain, who in my experience is a very highly-valued, collaborative and productive editor. Perhaps he's made a mistake. We all make mistakes, don't we? I don't really see that as good reason for you to invite him to leave the project. I'm not the only editor who feels this way. Apparently, so you tell us, "this kind of reaction ... comes with the territory", but I think you are valuing your little piece of "territory" more highly than an experienced fellow editor. That seems a little short-sighted to me. You seem quite unfriendly. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) p.s. who exactly invited you to "carry this on elsewhere"? p.p.s. and I'm guessing you didn't mean the Botswana National Front there?

I took this as a suggestion but I may have read more into it. [16]. I'm amazed that you guessed I am shortsighted, well done but I am also now a little longsighted too but we all go through that one day or another (hey it's actually quite fun to pretend to not understand the meaning of someone's words!) but if you met me IRL you would undoubtedly find me extremely friendly indeed unless of course you try to twist my words. Come or go with the territory is a pretty well-known phrase that indicates that when one accepts to do something then one has to accept the more difficult aspects of the task and this has nothing to do with a territory in the way you are suggesting. And to deal with can have several meanings you have chosen to attribute a sense that is close to punishment and I presume you knew that was not what I meant otherwise you wouldn't have put inverted commas around the word. You seem to like looking for hidden meanings but really there are none here just common or garden English expressions. He probably did make a mistake but he did not make a constructive reply when I templated him which with hindsight was lazy of me as it chucks out a sort of welcome message that is of no use to an editor with that many articles to his name but seeing as he reacted in a way that one expects much newer editors to do I didn't bother checking his history. mea culpa. Anyway I've said what I wanted to get my POV over I hope that you understand. Happy editing Dom from Paris (talk) 18:31, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T18:31:00.000Z","author":"Domdeparis","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T18:31:00.000Z-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T17:22:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T18:37:00.000Z-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T18:31:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Dom from Paris"}}-->

Dom and Out from Paris, you'll never be able to trust me. Even IRL. I may try and twist your words. Happy forgiving. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:37, 22 May 2018 (UTC) p.s. many thanks for your detailed and sincere explanation. p.p.s. useful Chemistry link. [reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T18:37:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T18:37:00.000Z-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T18:31:00.000Z","replies":["c-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T19:21:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T18:37:00.000Z"]}}-->

Humm not sure how much "sel" I should add to the above but I think I'll take it at face value! Happily I am not editing in visual so I got all the piped jokes without clicking! And I will auto-trout myself for the avoidable template reaction! Cheers Dom from Paris (talk) 19:21, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T19:21:00.000Z","author":"Domdeparis","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T19:21:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T18:37:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T19:32:00.000Z-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T19:21:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Dom from Paris"}}-->

"Llenarte las botas!"..... as they (probably don't) say in Sigüenza. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:32, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T19:32:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T19:32:00.000Z-Domdeparis-2018-05-22T19:21:00.000Z","replies":["c-Domdeparis-2018-05-23T13:23:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T19:32:00.000Z"]}}-->

I haven't heard that expression since I left the UK and the army. I thought it was only army slang, thanks for the link. Dom from Paris (talk) 13:23, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-23T13:23:00.000Z","author":"Domdeparis","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Domdeparis-2018-05-23T13:23:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T19:32:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T13:28:00.000Z-Domdeparis-2018-05-23T13:23:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Dom from Paris"}}-->

I do hope you're not still on the run. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:28, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-23T13:28:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T13:28:00.000Z-Domdeparis-2018-05-23T13:23:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, Martinevans123, and thank you for your thank you. I briefly posted and then removed a few remarks about the former Meghan Markle's mixed-race heritage, and then I thought to myself "Y.I., don't stir up trouble. Take that down." So I did. I apologize if the removed material was the very thing you had thanked me for. (I'm still learning, and can't tell or do a lot of things.) Newbie gaffes! Thanks again! Have a great rest of the day. Yseult-Ivain (talk) 20:08, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T20:08:00.000Z","author":"Yseult-Ivain","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Yseult-Ivain-2018-05-22T20:08:00.000Z-Thanks_for_your_thank_you!","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T20:18:00.000Z-Yseult-Ivain-2018-05-22T20:08:00.000Z"]}}-->

I actually thanked you for something else. But I agree with a lot of what you have said. You are very wise to try ad step lightly! Dear fun-loving Big Chief Sir Jimmy Wikki stepping in didn't really help matters did it? ...more tea, Bishop Curry?? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:18, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T20:18:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T20:18:00.000Z-Yseult-Ivain-2018-05-22T20:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hi Martin. On the same talk page, can you please correct this? i wasn't the one who opened a RFC. Thanks. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 20:16, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T20:16:00.000Z","author":"NeilN","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-NeilN-2018-05-22T20:16:00.000Z-Thanks_for_your_thank_you!","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T20:18:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-05-22T20:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

Will do. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:18, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-22T20:18:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-22T20:18:00.000Z-NeilN-2018-05-22T20:16:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello Martinevans and thanks for your warm support on my TP as pertains the minor spat that took place there. And please accept my apologies for the little tantrum I went into. My banishment from the fr. wiki started with 2 wikipedians who eventually led me to blow a fuse and then my fate was sealed. I didn't want to repeat the incident here, that's why I temporarily withdrew.

Thanks again and fare well. Yours, LouisAlain (talk) 21:05, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-23T21:05:00.000Z","author":"LouisAlain","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-LouisAlain-2018-05-23T21:05:00.000Z-Thanks_and_apologies_(\u00e0_la_Jane_Austen)","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T21:41:00.000Z-LouisAlain-2018-05-23T21:05:00.000Z"]}}-->

No worries, LouisAlan. Sometimes things get Lost in Translation (YouTube clip available). Just as long as you don't get lost to us here at en.wiki... enjoy!! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC) p.s. ... did you know that He (many YouTube clips available!) is now 94 and is still still touring!![reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-23T21:41:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T21:41:00.000Z-LouisAlain-2018-05-23T21:05:00.000Z","replies":["c-Xanthomelanoussprog-2018-05-24T06:39:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T21:41:00.000Z"]}}-->

I did hear that Van Morrison is recording an album of Beefheart covers. It's going to be titled "Ice Cream For Van". Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 06:39, 24 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-24T06:39:00.000Z","author":"Xanthomelanoussprog","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Xanthomelanoussprog-2018-05-24T06:39:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-23T21:41:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-24T07:46:00.000Z-Xanthomelanoussprog-2018-05-24T06:39:00.000Z"]}}-->

"cringe" ... ooh, Xantho, you're such a beast.... for that one you deserve a massive trout. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:46, 24 May 2018 (UTC) "moonjeans and bluebeams", anyone??[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-24T07:46:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-24T07:46:00.000Z-Xanthomelanoussprog-2018-05-24T06:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I just saw where Ritchie retired - WTH??? ^{Atsme📞📧} 12:56, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-29T12:56:00.000Z","author":"Atsme","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Atsme-2018-05-29T12:56:00.000Z-What_happened?","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T13:21:00.000Z-Atsme-2018-05-29T12:56:00.000Z"]}}-->

OMFG. But not exactly retired, it seems. I will try emailing him. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:21, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-29T13:21:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T13:21:00.000Z-Atsme-2018-05-29T12:56:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Hello, I see that you've edited the article on Mamoudou Gassama. I would like to ask you to give your thought on the article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mamoudou_Gassama With regards, --Kurt Leyman (talk) 16:24, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-29T16:24:00.000Z","author":"Kurt Leyman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Kurt_Leyman-2018-05-29T16:24:00.000Z-Mamoudou_Gassama_article","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T16:44:00.000Z-Kurt_Leyman-2018-05-29T16:24:00.000Z"]}}-->

Yes, of course. Although I feel I may be swimming against the tide over there. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:44, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-29T16:44:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T16:44:00.000Z-Kurt_Leyman-2018-05-29T16:24:00.000Z","replies":["c-Rivertorch-2018-05-29T21:27:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T16:44:00.000Z"]}}-->

Careful out there splashing around. Wakes are cool, wakes not so much. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 21:27, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-29T21:27:00.000Z","author":"Rivertorch","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Rivertorch-2018-05-29T21:27:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T16:44:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T21:35:00.000Z-Rivertorch-2018-05-29T21:27:00.000Z"]}}-->

You betcha. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:35, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-29T21:35:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T21:35:00.000Z-Rivertorch-2018-05-29T21:27:00.000Z","replies":["c-Rivertorch-2018-05-29T21:40:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T21:35:00.000Z"]}}-->

Who knew spiders could surf? Ah reckon it's why they call him "the amazing". Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 21:40, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-29T21:40:00.000Z","author":"Rivertorch","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Rivertorch-2018-05-29T21:40:00.000Z-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T21:35:00.000Z","replies":["c-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T21:56:00.000Z-Rivertorch-2018-05-29T21:40:00.000Z","c-79.189.206.17-2018-05-31T15:22:00.000Z-Rivertorch-2018-05-29T21:40:00.000Z"]}}-->

Well, you know, it ain't easy. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:56, 29 May 2018 (UTC) ... almost as painful as your tortuous puns[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-29T21:56:00.000Z","author":"Martinevans123","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Martinevans123-2018-05-29T21:56:00.000Z-Rivertorch-2018-05-29T21:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Voted for "weak keep and move" there. Realistically however it will join the ranks of 1Ers like murder-suicide pilot Andreas Lubitz, Alexandra Wallace the UCLA racist and a teenage cybercriminal that carries out online attacks due to a plane crash whose name I can't recall. 79.189.206.17 (talk) 15:22, 31 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-05-31T15:22:00.000Z","author":"79.189.206.17","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-79.189.206.17-2018-05-31T15:22:00.000Z-Rivertorch-2018-05-29T21:40:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Gore (film) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.