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ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message

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Disambiguation link notification for December 10

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An automated process has detected that when you recently edited North Sea Germanic, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Umlaut and North Frisian.

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nomination

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I have nominated History of Christianity - again - please take a look and criticize at will. Here: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/History of Christianity/archive2 Jenhawk777 (talk) 23:49, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241217234900","author":"Jenhawk777","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jenhawk777-20241217234900-nomination","replies":["c-Ermenrich-20241218162300-Jenhawk777-20241217234900"]}}-->

Thanks, Jenhawk777, I will take a look!--Ermenrich (talk) 16:23, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241218162300","author":"Ermenrich","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ermenrich-20241218162300-Jenhawk777-20241217234900","replies":[]}}-->

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Brünnhilde (cat)

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You should probably notify Di (they-them) about your AfD nomination of Brünnhilde (cat); I did add a few sentences, but they're the article's main creator. jlwoodwa (talk) 16:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241219163800","author":"Jlwoodwa","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Jlwoodwa-20241219163800-Br\u00fcnnhilde_(cat)","replies":["c-Ermenrich-20241219164200-Jlwoodwa-20241219163800"]}}-->

Sorry about that! I've notified them.--Ermenrich (talk) 16:42, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241219164200","author":"Ermenrich","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ermenrich-20241219164200-Jlwoodwa-20241219163800","replies":[]}}-->

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Saxons article, language section

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Hi Ermenrich, I know you've been working on related topics so I wonder if you would mind taking a look. I've been playing with the history related sections for some time, but I notice that the language section "stands out" with its strong Seebold based claims, and no competing perspectives. As I understand it there is no consensus about whether there is a major long term discontinuity between Frisian and Saxon? Andrew Lancaster (talk) 18:58, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20250109185800","author":"Andrew Lancaster","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Andrew_Lancaster-20250109185800-Saxons_article,_language_section","replies":["c-Ermenrich-20250109224700-Andrew_Lancaster-20250109185800","c-Austronesier-20250111122300-Andrew_Lancaster-20250109185800"]}}-->

The section looks problematic to me - I'm at a conference right now so not able to look into it further, but I'll try to when I get back (although it's also the first week of teaching then).--Ermenrich (talk) 22:47, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20250109224700","author":"Ermenrich","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ermenrich-20250109224700-Andrew_Lancaster-20250109185800","replies":[]}}-->

@Andrew Lancaster: I agree with @Ermenrich, that section is problematic—to say the least. It misrepresents the position of Old Saxon in relation to other languages at that time and also the position of its contemporary descendant dialects ("can all be considered to be types of German"—seriously? Sallands, Tweants...?). It also misrepresent its only source (Seebold 2003), who doesn't talk about "Weser Rhine Germanic" at all and does not claim that the entirety of Jutland was West Germanic speaking, etc. etc. And Seebold's narrative (which is mainly about the fluidity of "ethnonyms" and the resulting 'mismatch' between linguistic and "ethnic" markers) is one out of many, albeit a very interesting one. Ermenrich and I have collected a corpus of useful sources about the history and classification of the West Germanic languages, I'm sure we can revise the section to give a better picture of the languages associated with the various ancient groups that were called 'Saxons' at some point in history, and of Old Saxon "proper" and its modern descendants. –Austronesier (talk) 12:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20250111122300","author":"Austronesier","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Austronesier-20250111122300-Andrew_Lancaster-20250109185800","replies":["c-Andrew_Lancaster-20250111142900-Austronesier-20250111122300"]}}-->

@Austronesier: that's good. I hoped you guys were working on similar topics, because I know enough to realize that this is over-simplified. (Pretty maps though.) I have read some of Seebold's articles, and other relevant material, and I think it needs adjustment on the Saxons article, but I don't see myself going down that path anytime soon. Whatever tweaks I've made in that section are not going to have helped much. Possibly that section should also make more use of links to more specialized articles on WP.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 14:29, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20250111142900","author":"Andrew Lancaster","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Andrew_Lancaster-20250111142900-Austronesier-20250111122300","replies":[]}}-->