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Per consensus at WP:HOCKEY, we don't use maps. GoodDay (talk) 21:02, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107210200","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GoodDay-20241107210200-WP:_HOCKEY","replies":["c-Alielmi1207-20241107211600-GoodDay-20241107210200"]}}-->
@GoodDay All the other major North American sports leagues use maps to show where their champions are located, so I don't understand why NHL would be the exception. Where specifically is the discussion that led to the consensus? Alielmi1207 (talk) 21:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107211600","author":"Alielmi1207","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Alielmi1207-20241107211600-GoodDay-20241107210200","replies":["c-GoodDay-20241107212100-Alielmi1207-20241107211600"]}}-->
See this discussion. -- GoodDay (talk) 21:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107212100","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-GoodDay-20241107212100-Alielmi1207-20241107211600","replies":["c-Alielmi1207-20241107213200-GoodDay-20241107212100"]}}-->
@GoodDay Thanks, but it seems to be a discussion rather than a consensus. Anyways, as the old saying goes: "A picture is worth a thousand words". So, my opinion would be to keep the map, as it conveys a lot of information at a glance. Alielmi1207 (talk) 21:32, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107213200","author":"Alielmi1207","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Alielmi1207-20241107213200-GoodDay-20241107212100","replies":["c-GoodDay-20241107213300-Alielmi1207-20241107213200"]}}-->
Join the discussion at WP:HOCKEY. GoodDay (talk) 21:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107213300","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-GoodDay-20241107213300-Alielmi1207-20241107213200","replies":["c-Alielmi1207-20241107214600-GoodDay-20241107213300"]}}-->
I can understand removing them from the season pages, but adds value to this page. Alielmi1207 (talk) 21:46, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107214600","author":"Alielmi1207","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Alielmi1207-20241107214600-GoodDay-20241107213300","replies":["c-GoodDay-20241107220700-Alielmi1207-20241107214600"]}}-->
We'll wait & see, what the other WP:HOCKEY members think. I'll go along with what they prefer. GoodDay (talk) 22:07, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107220700","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-GoodDay-20241107220700-Alielmi1207-20241107214600","replies":["c-Alielmi1207-20241107222800-GoodDay-20241107220700"]}}-->
@GoodDay OK, will do. I'm curious why you deleted the map, undid the change, and then deleted it again? Alielmi1207 (talk) 22:28, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107222800","author":"Alielmi1207","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Alielmi1207-20241107222800-GoodDay-20241107220700","replies":["c-GoodDay-20241107223000-Alielmi1207-20241107222800"]}}-->
Initially, I mistakenly deleted the Cup champions below the photo. GoodDay (talk) 22:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241107223000","author":"GoodDay","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-GoodDay-20241107223000-Alielmi1207-20241107222800","replies":[]}}-->
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You left me a message about the "Official URL" template. I think you meant that for someone else. I don’t know anything about that template (other than that it exists) and I haven’t made, or reverted, any edits related to it. I find the overuse of the word "official" on Wikipedia tiresome anyway (while it is sometimes appropriate, people throw it around as though it adds credibility to every minute assertion). 1995hoo (talk) 17:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241128172800","author":"1995hoo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-1995hoo-20241128172800-\"Official_URL\"_template","replies":[]}}-->
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Responding to your question about the NFL page. I had to look back to last May to refresh my recollection. The discussion I recall about the issue was actually on the NHL article's talk page (see here: [1]) simply because I asked other users for their thoughts there, but the same principles apply. I don’t really know anything about the MOS guidelines' origins beyond what the users there said, but maybe you could ask one of them. I don’t know whether there is some sort of umbrella "sports articles" clearinghouse-type talk page, but I kind of doubt it because of different conventions for different sports (e.g., for baseball the infobox includes former stadiums, but for hockey it doesn’t, and apparently the reason is because the respective WikiProjects decided that). Sorry I can’t give you a clearer answer. 1995hoo (talk) 02:37, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241203023700","author":"1995hoo","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-1995hoo-20241203023700-Background_colors_on_team_tables","replies":[]}}-->
The foregoing text is derived directly from the Montreal Canadiens wiki page. However, if one was to follow the included wikilink (Major professional sports teams in the United States and Canada), the Cardinals have an establishment date of 1988. Do you see how this statement on the Canadiens' page cannot be corroborated without the edit I had made? Rubbaband Mang (talk) 14:11, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241217141100","author":"Rubbaband Mang","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Rubbaband_Mang-20241217141100-Arizona_Cardinals_founding_date","replies":["c-Assadzadeh-20241217153400-Rubbaband_Mang-20241217141100"]}}-->
@Rubbaband Mang I'm not disputing the original establishment date of the Cardinals. What I'm telling you is that the article specifically states:
Est. represents the first year the team played in its current media market. For brevity, only the most recent names for teams that have had multiple nicknames in their current media market are listed.
So, if you're going to change it for the Cardinals, then you need to change it for other teams that have relocated as well, not to mention listing their original team name.
To give you an example, take a look at Atlanta Braves. You'll note that they were established as the Boston Red Stockings in 1871 and changed names seven times before becoming the Braves and then relocating to Milwaukee.
On a related topic, I considered listing all the former names for a team, but using the Braves as an example again, I would have had to list nine former names, so I just left it as is, as the list seems to list only the most recent name in the former city.
Finally, if you want to change the list, then post a topic on the article's Talk page so that consensus can be reached first. Assadzadeh (talk) 15:34, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241217153400","author":"Assadzadeh","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Assadzadeh-20241217153400-Rubbaband_Mang-20241217141100","replies":["c-Assadzadeh-20241222065000-Assadzadeh-20241217153400"]}}-->
@Rubbaband Mang I decided to update the established date for all the teams listed, just like what you had proposed for the Arizona Cardinals. Assadzadeh (talk) 06:50, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241222065000","author":"Assadzadeh","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Assadzadeh-20241222065000-Assadzadeh-20241217153400","replies":[]}}-->
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Alphabetical order is alphabetical order regaredless of prefixes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE (talk) 00:29, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241224002900","author":"2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224002900-Reverted_edit_on_MLS_team_order","replies":["c-Assadzadeh-20241224004100-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224002900"]}}-->
@2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE I see that another user agrees with me. Assadzadeh (talk) 00:41, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241224004100","author":"Assadzadeh","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Assadzadeh-20241224004100-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224002900","replies":["c-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224005600-Assadzadeh-20241224004100"]}}-->
That they might. But I was taught that prefixes count towards alphabetical order and post people within my area of Canada also count them. Even Wikipedia counts them when you sort the teams into alphabetical order, which makes me lead to think that it's an international norm to include prefixes in alphabetical order consideration 2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE (talk) 00:56, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241224005600","author":"2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224005600-Assadzadeh-20241224004100","replies":["c-Assadzadeh-20241224011500-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224005600"]}}-->
Of course Wikipedia sorts them in alphabetical order, because it's just basing it on the first letter. If you look at some of the other sports leagues' tables, you will note that although a team's city is listed as St. Louis, it is listed alphabetically as if it were Saint Louis, thus appearing before San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, San Jose, and so on. This case is similar. FC could just as well come after the team name, as is the case with some of the other teams. So, instead of getting into an edit war, I would suggest posting a topic on the article's page to get consensus before making additional changes. @Blaixx care to comment, since our edits keep getting reverted? Assadzadeh (talk) 01:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241224011500","author":"Assadzadeh","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Assadzadeh-20241224011500-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224005600","replies":["c-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224020700-Assadzadeh-20241224011500"]}}-->
That may be, but if that's how the internal alphabetical order system works, that is how it should be ordered. If you and Blaixx wanna get into this edit war and are looking for more consensus, go ahead and make that topic page (also I have no idea how to do that). Until then, keep it ordered to how Wikipedia would have them ordered 2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE (talk) 02:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241224020700","author":"2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224020700-Assadzadeh-20241224011500","replies":["c-Assadzadeh-20241224021100-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224020700"]}}-->
@2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE I've already started a topic on the Talk page, but since you initially started the edits, then it needs to go back to how it was prior until consensus is reached. Assadzadeh (talk) 02:11, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241224021100","author":"Assadzadeh","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Assadzadeh-20241224021100-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224020700","replies":["c-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224021500-Assadzadeh-20241224021100"]}}-->
Or it can be as how the site it sits on orders them until consensus is reached. It is as it is 2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE (talk) 02:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241224021500","author":"2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224021500-Assadzadeh-20241224021100","replies":["c-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224032400-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224021500"]}}-->
You seem to be missing the mark with what I'm saying. So I've just put the teams back into the way it was before we starting making edits. Let's leave it at that (no more edits from either of us 3 on their order until other's weigh in via that talk topic on the page) 2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE (talk) 03:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241224032400","author":"2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224032400-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224021500","replies":["c-Assadzadeh-20241224033800-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224032400"]}}-->
How am I missing the mark when you're the one making changes to all these pages? I would conclude that whomever created the other pages also agrees that they should follow the same format (alphabetized based on city). Also, if there is code that has been added, then Wikipedia alphabetizes based on that code. So, please take a look at the table on the MLS page and tell me if the sorting works based on what you would expect. Assadzadeh (talk) 03:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241224033800","author":"Assadzadeh","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Assadzadeh-20241224033800-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224032400","replies":["c-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224035300-Assadzadeh-20241224033800"]}}-->
I say your missing it because you are ignoring that these teams either start with FC, CF and/or Sporting (in KC's regards) and not with their cities name ahead of the prefiex and thus shouldn't be looked over (even if MLS has), unlike myself. The table is fine as is now (even if it should be sorted taking the prefiexs into account), least until other's weigh in on the topic page that was created. Also the sorting code isn't any better and isn't needed as it's back to the order you want, let's leave it at that and not push this any further (with any more edits)! 2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE (talk) 03:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241224035300","author":"2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224035300-Assadzadeh-20241224033800","replies":["c-Assadzadeh-20241224041400-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224035300"]}}-->
OK, we can agree to disagree until consensus is reached. Assadzadeh (talk) 04:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20241224041400","author":"Assadzadeh","type":"comment","level":11,"id":"c-Assadzadeh-20241224041400-2607:FEA8:4A5C:7600:5C3B:2C24:11FC:FDFE-20241224035300","replies":[]}}-->
