Template talk:RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars

__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Woodensuperman-20230526140400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Inclusion_of_contestants-20230526140400","replies":["c-Woodensuperman-20230526140400-Inclusion_of_contestants"],"text":"Inclusion of contestants","linkableTitle":"Inclusion of contestants"}-->

Inclusion of contestants

__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Woodensuperman-20230526140400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Inclusion_of_contestants-20230526140400","replies":["c-Woodensuperman-20230526140400-Inclusion_of_contestants"]}}-->
__DTLATESTCOMMENTTHREAD__{"id":"c-Woodensuperman-20230620095200-Woodensuperman-20230526140400","timestamp":"20230620095200"}__-->__DTCOMMENTCOUNT__12__-->__DTAUTHORCOUNT__4__-->
__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Woodensuperman-20230526140400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Inclusion_of_contestants-20230526140400","replies":["c-Woodensuperman-20230526140400-Inclusion_of_contestants"],"text":"Inclusion of contestants","linkableTitle":"Inclusion of contestants"}-->

Please do not add contestants to this navbox as they are in violation of WP:PERFNAV as they were already celebrities prior to appearing on this show. For consensus please see Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2023 May 17#Template:RuPaul's Secret Celebrity Drag Race and multiple other discussions such as Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2023 May 10#Template:Queen of the Universe, etc. --woodensuperman 14:04, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230526140400","author":"Woodensuperman","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Woodensuperman-20230526140400-Inclusion_of_contestants","replies":["c-Woodensuperman-20230526141300-Woodensuperman-20230526140400","c-JuanGLP-20230530145800-Woodensuperman-20230526140400","c-Woodensuperman-20230620095200-Woodensuperman-20230526140400"],"displayName":"wooden"}}-->

  • Pinging @Izno: and @Plastikspork: for their neutral opinions as closers of the discussions I reference above as my changes in line with those navboxes have been reverted. --woodensuperman 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230526141300","author":"Woodensuperman","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Woodensuperman-20230526141300-Woodensuperman-20230526140400","replies":["c-Another_Believer-20230526141800-Woodensuperman-20230526141300","c-Plastikspork-20230529141400-Woodensuperman-20230526141300"],"displayName":"wooden"}}-->
    Doesn't really seem 'neutral' to ping folks you think will agree with you but whatever. I'm bummed to see you gutting some of these helpful templates. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:18, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230526141800","author":"Another Believer","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Another_Believer-20230526141800-Woodensuperman-20230526141300","replies":["c-Woodensuperman-20230526142300-Another_Believer-20230526141800"]}}-->
    They didn't !vote in the discussions, they were the impartial admins who closed the discussions, hence why I pinged them. I don't think you being "bummed" about the removal of the content is a good enough reason for its inclusion, do you? --woodensuperman 14:23, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230526142300","author":"Woodensuperman","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Woodensuperman-20230526142300-Another_Believer-20230526141800","replies":["c-Another_Believer-20230526142600-Woodensuperman-20230526142300"],"displayName":"wooden"}}-->
    I don't agree with your reasoning and I'm not going to keep having this discussion across many different pages. You keep removing content because you think contestants are "already celebrities", while I think these appearances are what make the individuals notable. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:26, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230526142600","author":"Another Believer","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Another_Believer-20230526142600-Woodensuperman-20230526142300","replies":["c-Woodensuperman-20230526142900-Another_Believer-20230526142600"]}}-->
    Appearing in the first instance of a show can be what makes them notable and we're making an exception to WP:PERFNAV for that first appearance (and to WP:PERFCAT for that matter). However, that cannot be claimed for their appearances on subsequent related shows (like this one), and the deletion discussions bear that out. --woodensuperman 14:29, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230526142900","author":"Woodensuperman","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Woodensuperman-20230526142900-Another_Believer-20230526142600","replies":[],"displayName":"wooden"}}-->
    I don't really have an opinion here, maybe solicit a 3rd opinion from WP:3O or WP:RFC? Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 14:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230529141400","author":"Plastikspork","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Plastikspork-20230529141400-Woodensuperman-20230526141300","replies":[]}}-->
@Another Believer + @Woodensuperman, maybe look onto the other templates such as {{Big Brother UK}} (especially the Celebrity part). — JuanGLP (talk/contribs) 14:58, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230530145800","author":"JuanGLP","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-JuanGLP-20230530145800-Woodensuperman-20230526140400","replies":["c-Another_Believer-20230530150400-JuanGLP-20230530145800","c-Woodensuperman-20230530154900-JuanGLP-20230530145800"]}}-->
Yeah, Woodensuperman seems hyper focused on PERFCAT whereas I prefer inclusion based on common sense. (shrug) ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:04, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230530150400","author":"Another Believer","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Another_Believer-20230530150400-JuanGLP-20230530145800","replies":["c-Woodensuperman-20230530154600-Another_Believer-20230530150400"]}}-->
Common sense is to avoid WP:NAVBOXCREEP and to avoid WP:UNDUE weight, which is why the guideling WP:PERFNAV exists. --woodensuperman 15:46, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230530154600","author":"Woodensuperman","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Woodensuperman-20230530154600-Another_Believer-20230530150400","replies":[],"displayName":"wooden"}}-->
If you compare the two (WP:OTHERSTUFF aside), only the celebrity winners are included, not all the celebrity contestants, which is what I had removed from this navbox. --woodensuperman 15:49, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20230530154900","author":"Woodensuperman","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Woodensuperman-20230530154900-JuanGLP-20230530145800","replies":[],"displayName":"wooden"}}-->