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I'd like to propose removing the External Links from the bottom of the template. First, all six link to the same site, which is overkill in my opinion. Second, the same links are already included in Nation of Islam, Elijah Muhammad, and some of the other articles that link to the template. Finally, these links may not appropriate for every article that links to the template (Malcolm X, for example). I'd appreciate other people's views on the question. Thanks. Malik Shabazz 05:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-01-21T05:12:00.000Z","author":"Malik Shabazz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Malik_Shabazz-2007-01-21T05:12:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

Don't rush into removing them. The links have obviously been placed there for a reason by more experienced editors. They are useful sources of information. Not spam. Retiono Virginian 20:29, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-01-29T20:29:00.000Z","author":"Retiono Virginian","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Retiono_Virginian-2007-01-29T20:29:00.000Z","replies":["c-Malik_Shabazz-2007-01-29T20:57:00.000Z-Retiono_Virginian-2007-01-29T20:29:00.000Z"]}}-->

I'm not suggesting that they're spam, just that I think they're redundant and therefore unnecessary. For example, the template includes a link to Message to the Blackman in America. Isn't that article the appropriate place for an external link to the text of the book? As I mentioned, every one of the links is included twice on some pages (such as Elijah Muhammad and Nation of Islam), once as part of the article and again as part of the template. (Visit either article and you'll see how strange it looks to see the same links listed twice within the space of a few inches.) Finally, if the links must stay, why not a single link to Elijah Muhammad's Books and Other Writings (i.e., the first link)? All the other links go to various pages within that site. (As a side-note, "Messenger" probably is inconsistent with WP:NPOV.) Malik Shabazz 20:57, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-01-29T20:57:00.000Z","author":"Malik Shabazz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Malik_Shabazz-2007-01-29T20:57:00.000Z-Retiono_Virginian-2007-01-29T20:29:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I have removed the group and its leader Clarence 13X as he was not a leader of the NOI and the group has refused affiliation with the NOI. --SevenOfDiamonds 20:55, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2007-08-15T20:55:00.000Z","author":"SevenOfDiamonds","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SevenOfDiamonds-2007-08-15T20:55:00.000Z-Nation_of_Gods_and_Earths","replies":[]}}-->

Of the five "leaders" of the NoI shown in the template, four were leaders of the organization and one was a famous minister and spokesman. Should we rename the section or remove Malcolm X? — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 00:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-02-01T00:38:00.000Z","author":"Malik Shabazz","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Malik_Shabazz-2008-02-01T00:38:00.000Z-Famous_leaders","replies":["c-Yahel_Guhan-2008-02-01T01:59:00.000Z-Malik_Shabazz-2008-02-01T00:38:00.000Z"]}}-->

rename it what? Malcolm X in a way was a leader, not in the sense that he was the head of the NOI, which he wasn't, but in the sense that he was a minister who attracted/convinced many to join the NOI, he gave many speeches, made it a more popular/notable organization, brought it into the mainstream, and to a large extent was a spokesperson for the NOI while he was a member. In that sense, he is a leader. Yahel Guhan 01:59, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-02-01T01:59:00.000Z","author":"Yahel Guhan","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Yahel_Guhan-2008-02-01T01:59:00.000Z-Malik_Shabazz-2008-02-01T00:38:00.000Z","replies":["c-Malik_Shabazz-2008-02-01T02:16:00.000Z-Yahel_Guhan-2008-02-01T01:59:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Yahel"}}-->

I don't know. You're right, Malcolm X was the public face of the NoI during the late 50s and early 60s. It just struck me as odd because each of the other people in that section held the top leadership position of the organization but he didn't. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 02:16, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-02-01T02:16:00.000Z","author":"Malik Shabazz","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Malik_Shabazz-2008-02-01T02:16:00.000Z-Yahel_Guhan-2008-02-01T01:59:00.000Z","replies":["c-Yahel_Guhan-2008-02-01T02:31:00.000Z-Malik_Shabazz-2008-02-01T02:16:00.000Z"]}}-->

It does seem a little odd. I suppose if there are any other major leaders, they should be added as well; I just can't think of any off the top of my head. Yahel Guhan 02:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-02-01T02:31:00.000Z","author":"Yahel Guhan","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Yahel_Guhan-2008-02-01T02:31:00.000Z-Malik_Shabazz-2008-02-01T02:16:00.000Z","replies":["c-Njsamizdat-2009-02-19T15:17:00.000Z-Yahel_Guhan-2008-02-01T02:31:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Yahel"}}-->

I agree. Malcolm X has the tendency to become the center of attention (as Elijah Muhammad learned). Still, a large number of the people checking into Nation of Islam topics are probably looking for him, so he might as well stay there. Another might be Khalid Abdul Muhammad, but he was never a significant force in NOI.Njsamizdat (talk) 15:17, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-02-19T15:17:00.000Z","author":"Njsamizdat","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Njsamizdat-2009-02-19T15:17:00.000Z-Yahel_Guhan-2008-02-01T02:31:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

What is a 'famous' leader as opposed to a leader? And isn't famous a kind of POV word?Njsamizdat (talk) 17:20, 25 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-02-25T17:20:00.000Z","author":"Njsamizdat","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Njsamizdat-2009-02-25T17:20:00.000Z-Famous_leaders","replies":[]}}-->

I added an image of the official NOI flag. Yahel Guhan 02:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-02-12T02:48:00.000Z","author":"Yahel Guhan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Yahel_Guhan-2008-02-12T02:48:00.000Z-NOI_flag","replies":["c-Malik_Shabazz-2009-03-03T03:08:00.000Z-Yahel_Guhan-2008-02-12T02:48:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Yahel"}}-->

Unfortunately the flag is subject to copyright, so I have to remove it. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 03:08, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-03-03T03:08:00.000Z","author":"Malik Shabazz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Malik_Shabazz-2009-03-03T03:08:00.000Z-Yahel_Guhan-2008-02-12T02:48:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I don't know how notable Quanell X is, but if Malcolm X is included, then other current leaders of the movement should be included if they do something that makes them notable?--Hourick (talk) 08:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-02-18T08:11:00.000Z","author":"Hourick","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Hourick-2008-02-18T08:11:00.000Z-addition_to_list....","replies":["c-Malik_Shabazz-2008-02-18T23:01:00.000Z-Hourick-2008-02-18T08:11:00.000Z"]}}-->

I don't know much about Quanell X, but Malcolm X was national spokesman for the NoI for almost a decade. He was widely considered number 2 in the movement (whether that was true is debatable), and he may have been better-known to the public as the face of the NoI than Elijah Muhammad. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 23:01, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2008-02-18T23:01:00.000Z","author":"Malik Shabazz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Malik_Shabazz-2008-02-18T23:01:00.000Z-Hourick-2008-02-18T08:11:00.000Z","replies":[]}}-->

I would like to add this to the list Muslim_Girls_Training_(MGT). It's one of the original institutions developed while W.D. Fard was leader of the temple. Any thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Njsamizdat (talk • contribs) 20:27, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2009-02-11T20:27:00.000Z","author":"Njsamizdat","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Njsamizdat-2009-02-11T20:27:00.000Z-Muslim_Girls_Training","replies":[]}}-->