jeez wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.90.86.158 (talk) 01:48, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2017-11-23T01:48:00.000Z","author":"172.90.86.158","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-172.90.86.158-2017-11-23T01:48:00.000Z-Where_the_hell_is_Solidus_on_this?!?","replies":[]}}-->
How about change Main Games template title section to "Canonical Games"? Who decides which the MG "Main Games are?" In MG series the plot is important and canonical games (as described in Wikipedia articles) such Metal Gear Solid: Portale Ops and Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance are in minor template sections.
Chek this out: http://www.konami.jp/mg25th/truth/ It is an official Konami site apperently and they do not list MPO! Seems to me, it isn't canon anymore or at least not part of the Main Series. I think the template needs to be changed to reflect this. 91.19.223.161 (talk) 09:11, 8 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-09-08T09:11:00.000Z","author":"91.19.223.161","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-91.19.223.161-2012-09-08T09:11:00.000Z-Portable_Ops_no_longer_canon?","replies":["c-178.203.28.133-2012-09-12T22:22:00.000Z-91.19.223.161-2012-09-08T09:11:00.000Z"]}}-->
So why is the Snake's Revenge link being moved to "Related Articles" instead of "Spin-off Games"? Anyone looking for the article would most likely look in a section labelled 'games'. TH1RT3EN talk ♦ contribs 15:20, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-01-05T15:20:00.000Z","author":"Th1rt3en","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Th1rt3en-2013-01-05T15:20:00.000Z-Snake's_Revenge","replies":["c-AnddoX-2013-01-05T18:16:00.000Z-Th1rt3en-2013-01-05T15:20:00.000Z"]}}-->
I believe that we should start labeling Metal Gear Rising as a "main game". It does have placement in the canon, after all, so it basically has the same significant value as Portable Ops (which is listed). If no one is opposed to it, I will change it. Please provide opinions below. Thanks. --Anddo (talk) 18:57, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-01-10T18:57:00.000Z","author":"AnddoX","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AnddoX-2013-01-10T18:57:00.000Z-Metal_Gear_Rising_listing","replies":["c-Th1rt3en-2013-01-10T22:47:00.000Z-AnddoX-2013-01-10T18:57:00.000Z","c-91.23.186.86-2013-02-07T10:29:00.000Z-AnddoX-2013-01-10T18:57:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Anddo"}}-->
The navbox is getting saturated with the words "Metal Gear" and "Metal Gear Solid" and is starting to look like a wall of the same words. I think we should discuss moving back to an abbreviated format for sequels, spin-offs, and other games.
My suggestions:
Of course there would be exceptions as something like Metal Gear - MG2: Solid Snake - Metal Gear Solid - MGS2: Sons of Liberty could be confusing to some, but overall I think it would clean up the navbox and focus more on making the links easier to navigate.
Thoughts? th1rt3en.talk.contribs 02:19, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-02-08T02:19:00.000Z","author":"Th1rt3en","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Th1rt3en-2013-02-08T02:19:00.000Z-Abbreviations","replies":[]}}-->
Let's try this for now. --Anddo (talk) 02:37, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-02-08T02:37:00.000Z","author":"AnddoX","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-AnddoX-2013-02-08T02:37:00.000Z-Abbreviations","replies":["c-Axem_Titanium-2013-02-08T03:12:00.000Z-AnddoX-2013-02-08T02:37:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Anddo"}}-->
Since Rising gets pushed around a little these days, here is the matter: whether a game is part of the canon or not doesn't mean that it is a spin-off or main title. Kojima himself stated several times that Rising is a spin-off and not part of the main series (see references in the entries of the section Metal Gear Rising listing). Therefore, for Rising to be listed as a Main Game is factually wrong. Why can't the sections be canon/ non-canon? Then you could have Rising in the Canon section together with the Main Series games. However, if you want to keep Main/Spin-off, stick with it and make it right and do not include spin-offs as main games, please. Otherwise the list is biased and factually wrong.87.177.85.86 (talk) 17:11, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-02-11T17:11:00.000Z","author":"87.177.85.86","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-87.177.85.86-2013-02-11T17:11:00.000Z-Canon\/Non-Canon_vs._Main\/Spin-off","replies":["c-Th1rt3en-2013-02-11T22:51:00.000Z-87.177.85.86-2013-02-11T17:11:00.000Z","c-Jonny2x4-2013-07-04T08:50:00.000Z-87.177.85.86-2013-02-11T17:11:00.000Z","c-Jonny2x4-2013-07-06T08:51:00.000Z-87.177.85.86-2013-02-11T17:11:00.000Z","c-91.23.168.22-2013-10-07T10:59:00.000Z-87.177.85.86-2013-02-11T17:11:00.000Z"]}}-->
Is it possible to put Snake's Revenge in the canonical spin-off games since it is set 3 years after the events of Metal Gear even though Hideo Kojima had no involvement in that game whatsoever? Also, can we count Portable Ops and Peace Walker as canonical spin-off games to the main series since Peace Walker has the same style and gameplay Portable Ops has even though Hideo Kojima had no involement in Portable Ops? Also, will it be easier to put the numbered Metal Gear Solid games only in the main series as well as the two early Metal Gear games since MGSV: The Phantom Pain is on the way? 86.142.117.246 (talk) 00:46, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-07-10T00:46:00.000Z","author":"86.142.117.246","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-86.142.117.246-2013-07-10T00:46:00.000Z-Snake's_Revenge,_Portable_Ops,_Peace_Walker_and_the_numbered_Metal_Gear_Solid_ga","replies":["c-Flax5-2013-07-10T19:13:00.000Z-86.142.117.246-2013-07-10T00:46:00.000Z","c-Axem_Titanium-2013-07-11T16:24:00.000Z-86.142.117.246-2013-07-10T00:46:00.000Z"]}}-->
The Other (provisional) Games section could then be divided into chronological and non-chronological games. Twin Snakes could also be moved to the other games section, since it was build from the ground up (unlike MGArcade, which as a port) with little involvement of Kojima. But it might create confusion, because it's a remake....
91.23.180.114 (talk) 18:27, 11 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-07-11T18:27:00.000Z","author":"91.23.180.114","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-91.23.180.114-2013-07-11T18:27:00.000Z-Snake's_Revenge,_Portable_Ops,_Peace_Walker_and_the_numbered_Metal_Gear_Solid_ga","replies":["c-91.23.180.114-2013-07-11T18:39:00.000Z-91.23.180.114-2013-07-11T18:27:00.000Z"]}}-->
Any suggestions for an alternate name for "chronological"? th1rt3en.talk.contribs 23:10, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-07-12T23:10:00.000Z","author":"Th1rt3en","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Th1rt3en-2013-07-12T23:10:00.000Z-Snake's_Revenge,_Portable_Ops,_Peace_Walker_and_the_numbered_Metal_Gear_Solid_ga","replies":["c-91.23.141.55-2013-07-14T10:53:00.000Z-Th1rt3en-2013-07-12T23:10:00.000Z"]}}-->
So I notice the template now places PO in the spin off section. I can understand placing MGR there, as it is considered a spin-off despite being canon, but why is PO there? It's not a spinoff and it is canon, so it belongs in the main games section. 134340Goat (talk) 17:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-06T17:42:00.000Z","author":"134340Goat","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-134340Goat-2013-12-06T17:42:00.000Z-Portable_Ops..._again","replies":["c-91.23.163.114-2013-12-11T08:06:00.000Z-134340Goat-2013-12-06T17:42:00.000Z"]}}-->
Note: I copy-pasted this discussion I tried to start earlier at WT:VG, to no avail. Continuing here.
Guys, what are we going to do with {{Metal Gear}}? I've seen numerous edits and reverts and I think it's time we need to come to a general consensus.
These are just some of the issues I can come up with the template. Feel free to add more feedback of course. I'll name-drop Phailin1 (talk · contribs), Th1rt3en (talk · contribs), Tintor2 (talk · contribs), Axem Titanium (talk · contribs), Flax5 (talk · contribs), Gabriel Yuji (talk · contribs) as they are established editors I noticed editing the template. --Soetermans. T / C 09:57, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-11T09:57:00.000Z","author":"Soetermans","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Soetermans-2013-12-11T09:57:00.000Z-MGS_template_layout","replies":["c-Phailin1-2013-12-11T11:35:00.000Z-Soetermans-2013-12-11T09:57:00.000Z"]}}-->
Shouldn't this conversation take place on the template's talk page? (If so, I'd collapse it here, copy/paste there for context, and leave a note here to continue there.) czar ♔ 05:08, 12 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-12T05:08:00.000Z","author":"Czar","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Czar-2013-12-12T05:08:00.000Z-MGS_template_layout","replies":["c-Sergecross73-2013-12-12T16:17:00.000Z-Czar-2013-12-12T05:08:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u2654"}}-->
Don't have too much time to edit these days but these are my thoughts/opinions/general editing philosophy as it applies to this template: 1) avoid unexplained abbreviations; new readers have no idea what MGSV means; 2) avoid labeling things as "canonical" in a template; canonicity is rarely a defining feature important enough to call out ever, much less in a template, and it invites constant edit warring over interpretation; 3) list every game; the purpose of a navbox is navigation and if you fail to provide that, you have failed the reader; there's no reason they should have to load more than one page to get to where they think they want to go. Axem Titanium (talk) 22:22, 12 December 2013 (UTC) Note: I copy-pasted this discussion I tried to start earlier at WT:VG, to no avail. Continuing here.[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-12T22:22:00.000Z","author":"Axem Titanium","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Axem_Titanium-2013-12-12T22:22:00.000Z-MGS_template_layout","replies":[]}}-->
Continuing the discussion here, maybe we can try again. I noticed Phailin1 was banned for sockpuppetry, so he's out. Th1rt3en (talk · contribs), Tintor2 (talk · contribs), Axem Titanium (talk · contribs), Flax5 (talk · contribs), Gabriel Yuji (talk · contribs), Ryūkotsusei (talk · contribs), I've pinged you again for another round of jolly good fun. --Soetermans. T / C 12:57, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2013-12-21T12:57:00.000Z","author":"Soetermans","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Soetermans-2013-12-21T12:57:00.000Z-MGS_template_layout","replies":["c-Flax5-2013-12-21T14:08:00.000Z-Soetermans-2013-12-21T12:57:00.000Z"]}}-->
I've shortened the topics to the following:
Hi @Jonny2x4:, @Dissident93:, @DarkKyoushu:, @TheDeviantPro:, @Flax5:, @MAinternational:, @Mika1h:,
Before the whole revert thing goes off again, I thought I'd start a new topic about the layout of the Metal Gear template. Today, Jonny2x4 changed "Main series" to Hideo Kojima series. Hideo did not direct The Twin Snakes remake, nor is it clear what his involvement was with Metal Gear Online. We could take those two out of the Hideo group of course, and place them under "other games". But wouldn't it be odd to make a distinction based upon a director in a navigation template, especially if there's {{Hideo Kojima}}?
Reverting back to "main series" also has its issues: what makes it a "main game"? It lists Peace Walker, an unnumbered handheld title (originally of course) and part of the Metal Gear canon — but so is Portable Ops apparently, listed under "other games". Can we go by "canon"? Having a "main series" group, being canonical, and a "other games" for Acid, Online and Touch, for instance? --Soetermans. T / C 11:06, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-10-20T11:06:00.000Z","author":"Soetermans","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Soetermans-2015-10-20T11:06:00.000Z-Current_state_(as_of_October_2015)","replies":["c-Flax5-2015-10-20T11:15:00.000Z-Soetermans-2015-10-20T11:06:00.000Z","c-Jonny2x4-2015-10-20T19:10:00.000Z-Soetermans-2015-10-20T11:06:00.000Z"]}}-->
I tried to see if they were at some time, but couldn't find that so easily. --Soetermans. T / C 07:53, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-10-27T07:53:00.000Z","author":"Soetermans","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Soetermans-2015-10-27T07:53:00.000Z-Current_state_(as_of_October_2015)","replies":[]}}-->
Confirmed here. 134340Goat (talk) 19:38, 15 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-03-15T19:38:00.000Z","author":"134340Goat","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-134340Goat-2014-03-15T19:38:00.000Z-PO_is_still_considered_a_main_entry_in_the_saga","replies":["c-91.23.152.45-2014-03-17T21:21:00.000Z-134340Goat-2014-03-15T19:38:00.000Z"]}}-->
Given recent events, I think it's time to address this again. Now that Kojima is out of the series and Konami is solely in charge of Metal Gear, I think the fact that it's confirmed as canon suggests we should change the template to reflect the canon proper 134340Goat (talk) 19:40, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2016-04-30T19:40:00.000Z","author":"134340Goat","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-134340Goat-2016-04-30T19:40:00.000Z-PO_is_still_considered_a_main_entry_in_the_saga","replies":["c-2003:E0:6BD6:3218:A416:7AC1:93E2:157F-2017-06-28T09:14:00.000Z-134340Goat-2016-04-30T19:40:00.000Z"]}}-->
I don't see why Metal Gear Online should be listed next to MGS4. As the article on Online mentions, it is a multiplayer only game, with no plot. Moreover, it is no longer available to play on the PlayStation 3. Just because it was initially part of MGS4 does not necessarily mean it should be listed there. Further more, a new version of Online will become available for The Phantom Pain. --Soetermans. T / C 10:37, 13 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2015-09-13T10:37:00.000Z","author":"Soetermans","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Soetermans-2015-09-13T10:37:00.000Z-Metal_Gear_Online","replies":["c-DarkKyoushu-2015-09-14T22:07:00.000Z-Soetermans-2015-09-13T10:37:00.000Z"]}}-->
Why should David Hayter be there? He did not write any game. He only voiced two characters and was replaced by another one for the V games.Tintor2 (talk) 22:19, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-12-03T22:19:00.000Z","author":"Tintor2","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Tintor2-2018-12-03T22:19:00.000Z-David_Hayter","replies":["c-Dissident93-2018-12-04T02:08:00.000Z-Tintor2-2018-12-03T22:19:00.000Z","c-Tintor2-2018-12-04T15:41:00.000Z-Tintor2-2018-12-03T22:19:00.000Z","c-Tintor2-2018-12-04T19:00:00.000Z-Tintor2-2018-12-03T22:19:00.000Z","c-Dissident93-2018-12-04T19:17:00.000Z-Tintor2-2018-12-03T22:19:00.000Z","c-Tintor2-2018-12-04T22:22:00.000Z-Tintor2-2018-12-03T22:19:00.000Z","c-TarkusAB-2018-12-09T02:37:00.000Z-Tintor2-2018-12-03T22:19:00.000Z"]}}-->
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